Thanks 🙏 yes Anglesey is notorious for being harsh on tyres so we thought it would be the perfect place to accentuate the setup holdbacks as standard 🙌
Great video guys, love the overlay and the details on reading the information... but what are the changes? I know the name is suspension secrets but come on!
Thank for the comment and glad you enjoyed the video! We spend an awful lot of time and effort developing the optimum settings and we sell them as a PDF setup sheet 🙌 alternatively we supply a complimentary setup sheet when any of our suspension upgrades are purchased from our shop 🙌
Just out of the pictures 😂: Front camber is about 2.75 and rear at about 1.75. What really makes the different is a offset rear toe link which changes the rear toe curve. TBC came along with 6 or 7 years ago for the 981 GT4. 718 GT4 does have same suspension hardware and the same weak points. Personally i do not agree the offset camber plates, which you could also use out of a 991 gt3. It's a direct fit. But you gain camber without increasing front track width very much. And wider track width means more grip. For my option it's better to max. Out LCA with shims and in case you get to much caster, react with the Manthey trailing arm kit or similar. There is really no need to invent this suspension another time. Lots of experience all over, just different philosophies. But thank you for visulize tire temperatures, it's quite interesting.
Thank you ❤ These GT4s definitely need rear toe links to get these things aligned well at the bare minimum level. It’s just another thing Porsche AG does to ensure these cars remain a step back from their big brothers
What a super informative video. Having recently took ownership of a GT4 and dived into the world of trackdays this is so good to see the limitations of stock and the incremental changes the tweaks make. As a minimum I clearly understand I absolutely need to get the motorsport setup done ASAP, however given the implications of invalidating warranty I probably will have to stop there for the time being, which is somewhat annoying.
Thanks for the comment. Yes the setup is well worth it as a starting point as all of that adjustment is there just waiting to be used 👍 we have many customers upgrading the parts (outside of manthey) and a lot of the centres have kept the warranty in tact and “looked past” the bolt on suspension mods in many cases 👍
Of course. The inside is due to the rear toe (to deliver the drive we are looking for) heating the inner edge in a straight line. Then through the corners we are looking for the temps to increase towards the outer edges. The reason the rear stays hotter in the inside is because they are the driven wheels and Chris was full throttle everywhere so the tyres were being stressed at the rear the whole time 👍
Really nice Video! would be nice to see if this made time improvement also. But really cool video, i can imagine lot of time and money to make this so thank you
Thanks for the comment 🙌 that was the only downside with Anglesey with the morning and afternoon layouts so we couldn’t get a perfect overlay. We also struggled on all the days with traffic on each lap so we couldn’t get two perfect clear laps for an overlay 👍
Are you at the nurburgring now? I'm in Kelberg in the Zweite Heimat Nurburg hotel and there's an UK gt4 in front of the hotel that looks exactly like this one hahaha
Good stuff. I’m at the stage where I just installed camber plates and my rear toe arms should arrive next week. What were the max alignment settings you could get stock? I could only get -1.8° front before the camber tops. Rear was -2° before I couldn’t get my 3mm total toe in
Thanks 🙏 awesome 👍 they make a huge difference and are the focus of our next video. We managed to get into the 2’s on the front but we couldn’t get past -1.6 on the rear without struggling with rear toe settings
@@SuspensionSecrets You are going to have to tell me for final values. I can't make it to your shop because I'm in Australia. Are you changing the ride height or corner balancing the car? You gave me some tips for setting up my M2 that were very helpful.
You seem to be using tire temps across the board to measure how well the suspension setup is. However, the ultimate goal is to optimize lap time. I believe having an even tire temp will help tire wear, but does not necessarily lead to faster laps. Am I missing something here? In other words, what is the ideal distribution of tire temp of all four corners on the track?
In order to get the car around the corners as fast as possible, having as much of the tyre in contact with the ground through the corner is a major ingredient to cornering speed as there is much more grip on offer to keep speed up. This is shown by temperature in the tyre. That’s why in the pits you will often see engineers probing the tyres to get the temperature of the tyre across its entire width. They are doing this to ensure that all of the tyre is being used out on circuit to ensure that the camber settings are optimal for the tyre and driver etc. With these sensors we are able to get an exact view of how much of the tyre is being used through the corner with the live temperature data which means we can be far more accurate when it comes to developing the optimum camber settings for the car. Therefore, tyre being used at its most effective = more cornering speed and grip = faster lap times 👍 Tyre temps, tyre wear and driver feedback are the 3 key ingredients to perfecting your camber settings 👍 It was difficult to get perfect lap times on the different track days that we filmed across due to traffic on circuit as we were on general track days with other cars out on circuit. So our focus was on the tyre data to optimise full contact patch 👍
Amazing use of datalogging... I already have a Video Vbox HD2 - do you know if I can just buy the sensors or do I also need that whole system in your link for 5000 pounds?
Thanks! That’s awesome. In that case you would just need to buy the IR sensors. Hype Motorsport (linked in the description) will be able to supply you with these no problem at all if you already have the HD2 👍 they will plug straight in and work after the initial calibration is done 👍
Yes we did. That’s a very good point though as we should have mentioned that 👍 we set our hot pressures for each session before doing the data laps 👍 we ran 32psi hot pressures for all data runs
@@SuspensionSecretsi am located in the US. Which top hat would you recommend for my 981 please? I saw that Elephant racing has better NVH than Tarrett. But then I saw that the gt4 has strut tower failure is because the top hat leans too much inside(uneven pressure point). So I don’t know if I should pull the trigger on top hat or not
@@quocanhphanho8969 check out our top mounts as we have designed both caster and camber into ours. We also use German bearings to reduce NVH to a minimum and manufacture in house in the UK with free worldwide shipping 👍 shop.suspensionsecrets.co.uk/products/suspension-secrets-camber-caster-plate-top-mounts-porsche-981-718-cayman-gt4
Yes for a track dominant car, no for a road dominant car - the ability to remove water from the inner part of OEM tires is inhibited by too much camber.
Thanks for the comment. The settings we used in this video are still perfect for road use as the camber is not too excessive for wet weather conditions etc at this point. It’s also worth noting that most people drive these cars in the dry weather and will only push hard in dry conditions. So when the rain comes most owners will back off and drive normally anyway (especially on cup2 tyres) so considerations towards dry weather performance significantly outweigh the minimal reductions in wet weather braking conditions. That said, we love to always put proof in our statements so you have given us a great idea for a future video where we can data log the braking G’s (wet and dry) at varying levels of camber to gather the exact data to show you all too 🙌
@@SuspensionSecrets If you're running CUP2 R it could well be, because they have significantly lower tread depth than CUP2 when fresh. Its worth speaking to Michelin, I was told this by one of their Motorsport reps albeit in relation to a GT3 RS. Even with CUP2 they get sketchy quick in the wet, within OEM settings, because the tread gets overwhelmed (can't get rid of the water quickly enough) causing aqua planing.
@@SuspensionSecrets The test you propose would be really interesting particularly in saturated conditions. It would also be interesting to report the data as a friction circle (lat g x axis, lineal g y - axis) which will better show loss of confidence if grip becomes inconsistent. If you can maintain a smaller yet circular friction circle in the wet it will mean although grip is reduced, you can still maximise what grip you have.
The channel describes it best. Why no before and after camber settings? Is it really a secret?
Great video, Anglesey is well know for wearing front left tyres and you have shown perfectly why.
Thanks 🙏 yes Anglesey is notorious for being harsh on tyres so we thought it would be the perfect place to accentuate the setup holdbacks as standard 🙌
As informative as ever. Looking forward to the next F80 installment
Thanks 🙏 next F80 episode is coming soon 👍
Great video guys, love the overlay and the details on reading the information... but what are the changes? I know the name is suspension secrets but come on!
Thank for the comment and glad you enjoyed the video! We spend an awful lot of time and effort developing the optimum settings and we sell them as a PDF setup sheet 🙌 alternatively we supply a complimentary setup sheet when any of our suspension upgrades are purchased from our shop 🙌
Just out of the pictures 😂: Front camber is about 2.75 and rear at about 1.75.
What really makes the different is a offset rear toe link which changes the rear toe curve. TBC came along with 6 or 7 years ago for the 981 GT4. 718 GT4 does have same suspension hardware and the same weak points.
Personally i do not agree the offset camber plates, which you could also use out of a 991 gt3. It's a direct fit. But you gain camber without increasing front track width very much. And wider track width means more grip. For my option it's better to max. Out LCA with shims and in case you get to much caster, react with the Manthey trailing arm kit or similar.
There is really no need to invent this suspension another time. Lots of experience all over, just different philosophies.
But thank you for visulize tire temperatures, it's quite interesting.
Thank you ❤
These GT4s definitely need rear toe links to get these things aligned well at the bare minimum level. It’s just another thing Porsche AG does to ensure these cars remain a step back from their big brothers
Couldn’t agree more 👍 the next episode reveals exactly why that is the case too 👍
Excellent video. Love the geeky tyre temp stuff and the affect camber changes make.
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed the video 👍
What a super informative video. Having recently took ownership of a GT4 and dived into the world of trackdays this is so good to see the limitations of stock and the incremental changes the tweaks make. As a minimum I clearly understand I absolutely need to get the motorsport setup done ASAP, however given the implications of invalidating warranty I probably will have to stop there for the time being, which is somewhat annoying.
To keep warranty intact Manthey is the only option.
@Slick-m5p and that's £2.5k before fitting! If only the PADMs didn't fail often and I'd be happy to bin the warranty off!
@@MR-JWW Yep, that's why I will have to go Manthey.
Why would a set up invalidate warranty?!
Thanks for the comment. Yes the setup is well worth it as a starting point as all of that adjustment is there just waiting to be used 👍 we have many customers upgrading the parts (outside of manthey) and a lot of the centres have kept the warranty in tact and “looked past” the bolt on suspension mods in many cases 👍
Really Great Vid!!
Thank you 🙏
This is a great video series. Can you invert the playlist so that it auto plays chronologically?
Done!! Thanks for letting us know
Fascinating video ! Thanks a million!
Really pleased you enjoyed it 👍
Love this series!!
Hopefully get to see you do the same with other cars in future… like a gt3 👀😂
Thanks 🙏 sounds like a good idea 👀
Great video Matt!
Thanks 🙏
Awesome upload, really interesting.
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it. More to come this Friday 👍
Really interesting Matt, thank you 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Glad you enjoyed it 🙌👍
Love this, beautiful work 👍🇬🇧
Thanks very much 🙏
Nice work
Thanks guys! Awesome sensors!!
Love the content !
Thank you 🙏
great job! could you tell us more about the rear inside hotness?
Of course. The inside is due to the rear toe (to deliver the drive we are looking for) heating the inner edge in a straight line. Then through the corners we are looking for the temps to increase towards the outer edges. The reason the rear stays hotter in the inside is because they are the driven wheels and Chris was full throttle everywhere so the tyres were being stressed at the rear the whole time 👍
Really nice Video! would be nice to see if this made time improvement also. But really cool video, i can imagine lot of time and money to make this so thank you
Thanks for the comment 🙌 that was the only downside with Anglesey with the morning and afternoon layouts so we couldn’t get a perfect overlay. We also struggled on all the days with traffic on each lap so we couldn’t get two perfect clear laps for an overlay 👍
Nice video and tech.....is a setup like this on the street feasible for a 991 street/track car?
Are you at the nurburgring now? I'm in Kelberg in the Zweite Heimat Nurburg hotel and there's an UK gt4 in front of the hotel that looks exactly like this one hahaha
We are not unfortunately! We will be there next year when the car is fully finished 🙌
Good stuff. I’m at the stage where I just installed camber plates and my rear toe arms should arrive next week. What were the max alignment settings you could get stock? I could only get -1.8° front before the camber tops. Rear was -2° before I couldn’t get my 3mm total toe in
Thanks 🙏 awesome 👍 they make a huge difference and are the focus of our next video. We managed to get into the 2’s on the front but we couldn’t get past -1.6 on the rear without struggling with rear toe settings
@@SuspensionSecrets You are going to have to tell me for final values. I can't make it to your shop because I'm in Australia. Are you changing the ride height or corner balancing the car? You gave me some tips for setting up my M2 that were very helpful.
@TheEddysGarage pop us an email through 👍
You seem to be using tire temps across the board to measure how well the suspension setup is. However, the ultimate goal is to optimize lap time. I believe having an even tire temp will help tire wear, but does not necessarily lead to faster laps. Am I missing something here? In other words, what is the ideal distribution of tire temp of all four corners on the track?
In order to get the car around the corners as fast as possible, having as much of the tyre in contact with the ground through the corner is a major ingredient to cornering speed as there is much more grip on offer to keep speed up. This is shown by temperature in the tyre.
That’s why in the pits you will often see engineers probing the tyres to get the temperature of the tyre across its entire width. They are doing this to ensure that all of the tyre is being used out on circuit to ensure that the camber settings are optimal for the tyre and driver etc.
With these sensors we are able to get an exact view of how much of the tyre is being used through the corner with the live temperature data which means we can be far more accurate when it comes to developing the optimum camber settings for the car.
Therefore, tyre being used at its most effective = more cornering speed and grip = faster lap times 👍
Tyre temps, tyre wear and driver feedback are the 3 key ingredients to perfecting your camber settings 👍
It was difficult to get perfect lap times on the different track days that we filmed across due to traffic on circuit as we were on general track days with other cars out on circuit. So our focus was on the tyre data to optimise full contact patch 👍
Amazing use of datalogging... I already have a Video Vbox HD2 - do you know if I can just buy the sensors or do I also need that whole system in your link for 5000 pounds?
Thanks! That’s awesome. In that case you would just need to buy the IR sensors. Hype Motorsport (linked in the description) will be able to supply you with these no problem at all if you already have the HD2 👍 they will plug straight in and work after the initial calibration is done 👍
How much negative camber was put on the front?
they said max negative camber that the stock setup will allow. 6:20 mark in video
@@cben86 how much is max? -2, -3🤔
The maximum does vary slightly chassis to chassis and is also ride height dependant too so the window is often -2.2 to -2.5 degrees 👍
I’m presuming you kept the tyre pressures the same in both standard and motorsport setup?
Yes we did. That’s a very good point though as we should have mentioned that 👍 we set our hot pressures for each session before doing the data laps 👍 we ran 32psi hot pressures for all data runs
How much do you guys recommend for daily driving+spirited driving? Is -1.5 front for cayman enough?
For daily and spirited driving on the cayman chassis anything around -2.2 is perfect and wouldn’t impact tyre wear too much 👍
@@SuspensionSecretsi am located in the US. Which top hat would you recommend for my 981 please? I saw that Elephant racing has better NVH than Tarrett.
But then I saw that the gt4 has strut tower failure is because the top hat leans too much inside(uneven pressure point). So I don’t know if I should pull the trigger on top hat or not
@@quocanhphanho8969any sources on these?
@@quocanhphanho8969 check out our top mounts as we have designed both caster and camber into ours. We also use German bearings to reduce NVH to a minimum and manufacture in house in the UK with free worldwide shipping 👍
shop.suspensionsecrets.co.uk/products/suspension-secrets-camber-caster-plate-top-mounts-porsche-981-718-cayman-gt4
Is the cheapeat way to improve the chrono, but the car have to avaiable parts to regulate.
Yes for a track dominant car, no for a road dominant car - the ability to remove water from the inner part of OEM tires is inhibited by too much camber.
Thanks for the comment. The settings we used in this video are still perfect for road use as the camber is not too excessive for wet weather conditions etc at this point.
It’s also worth noting that most people drive these cars in the dry weather and will only push hard in dry conditions. So when the rain comes most owners will back off and drive normally anyway (especially on cup2 tyres) so considerations towards dry weather performance significantly outweigh the minimal reductions in wet weather braking conditions.
That said, we love to always put proof in our statements so you have given us a great idea for a future video where we can data log the braking G’s (wet and dry) at varying levels of camber to gather the exact data to show you all too 🙌
@@SuspensionSecrets If you're running CUP2 R it could well be, because they have significantly lower tread depth than CUP2 when fresh. Its worth speaking to Michelin, I was told this by one of their Motorsport reps albeit in relation to a GT3 RS. Even with CUP2 they get sketchy quick in the wet, within OEM settings, because the tread gets overwhelmed (can't get rid of the water quickly enough) causing aqua planing.
@@SuspensionSecrets The test you propose would be really interesting particularly in saturated conditions. It would also be interesting to report the data as a friction circle (lat g x axis, lineal g y - axis) which will better show loss of confidence if grip becomes inconsistent. If you can maintain a smaller yet circular friction circle in the wet it will mean although grip is reduced, you can still maximise what grip you have.
Dude our new 4.0 makes that awful noise also.