I'm an Evergreen alum. I graduated in 2017. I went through RCIA and confirmation in 2019. I witnessed Bret's trouble, but I was socially and academically closer to the people who persecuted him than those who defended him. I lost nearly all of my friends in Oly over the next few years, but I gained so much more. I will carry Bret and Heather's example of moral courage with me for the rest of my life. I am incredibly grateful for this conversation. Thank you for hosting them, Bishop. Please bless them, and bless those who are persecuted in academia for seeking truth in a world of lies and flattery. 🙏
@@theologyofthebody8383 A couple of questions I have asked of people who “go woke”: Do you think you HAVE to accept the Woke mentality in order to keep or maintain a social image of yourself as a young person (18-35) because you see what happens to those who don’t choose the “woke” dogma? Are you afraid of the fallout of what happens to those reject wokeism ? Do the the woke dominate through fear?
I think people would be interested in hearing *your* story, Amber Emily :-) God bless you for having the courage to own your stance towards Brett and Heather while they were going through their difficulties at Evergreen....how did you move towards RCIA and confirmation from that place?
Very very cool. I was a Marxist when I was young… (I’m 50 and fairly conservative as I age) so maybe it’s a common experience to see the left play out, and learn as we grow. Glad you commented.
I agree with MS. I’ll add that I wasn’t aware of their experience at the time, but have discovered them through their podcast during the public health issue the last two years, (still!, not aware of the Evergreen occurrence!) I finally had to explore further what happened, what was this Evergreen thing? Shocking!, no doubt. I listened to/ watched hours of interviews, video of student mobs, faculty meetings... I finished high school in the 90’s, attended/ grad LSU late 90’s. This mobbing, cornering and agitating, and total lack of conversation has been shocking- not surprising (given the temperature of opposing sets of the last little while, I’m not really sure, as I’d have to admit I must have not been paying attention... admittedly) This tactic of dealing with the world and each other, I don’t think was my generations way of going about social gains... One of the things that I have been curious of again and again is just what Amber Emily states here, and thank you for doing so. I have wondered how these young adults have developed outlooks and insights since Evergreen. If their stance has moved them to dig their heels even deeper... or has time, life experience broadened their view of those in their concentric circles of interaction and influence gained their consideration and respect- have they figured out that many of those that were the subject of their vilification had viewed them with mutual respect (and even in the face of the mob really tried to have reasonable dialogue.) I do wonder if many “outgrew” their rage... thank you, again for your comment. I do think it is met with understanding, compassion, and appreciation.
I think those are just his interview prep notes rather than study notes. The host of the unbelievable podcast who do hour long interviews like this one does the same.
I would imagine he's either crossing off pre written questions(it looks like he does it several times during the interview) or adding new questions he could ask. I think it would be inappropriate to spend time writing "study notes" as the interviewer
He recently did a talk on this topic to a different audience and presented the argument he had for that talk to these folks. He added info for further discussion to his notes which he wrote while reading their book with his arguments in mind.
The Good Bishop Barron has a lightening fast mind and goes to the heart of the great questions. As a son of a biologist and chemist I grew up in a science/faith family. All compatible, trust me.
They are more than "compatible." They are married, and their fruit is a theology in itself. A lot of science much include a love of art. Part of the problems we have in medicine, is science with out CONscience. Too many "smarts," too little wisdom. Fear and feelings, over faith and facts. REAL science affirms and is affirmed by the faith. And faith, affirms and is affirmed by...science. It's all from, of, for and by God.
@@jac1161 I'm just curious, is the wonderful fruit of this marriage between faith and science include the theology of Islam or Hinduism, or does it only include Christian theology which, by the sheerest accident, you just happened to be born into?
@@thanksforbeingausefulidiot9016 Where they each encounter an immutable truth, they share that encounter in common. This is certainly what Christian theology would say. Any honest Christian would say that Islam touches upon inevitable truths. The question is not about that, but rather about the fullness of truth. This is where the fundamental divide is found and it is encumbent on each person to work to discern and understand that divide.
This is such a strange cross-over. I listen to these podcasts totally independently of one another, and for totally different reasons. Now they're crashing into each other. Should be fascinating.
It's not really strange. The Catholic Church and Bishop Barron personally both stand behind evolution rather than a literal reading of Creation in Genesis 1, they just teach that evolution was caused by God.
Bishop Barron was unbelievably sharp and on top of the ball with this conversation! Loved his persistence with questions that cut right to the heart of truth.
Wow. I’ve been listening to Brett and Heather throughout the whole pandemic. I so appreciate their deep intelligence and insights. I’m also an original Word on Fire Institute member and super excited about its reach and mission. I’m so happy to see these conversations, Bishop Barron, with learned, thoughtful and articulate people in our culture with whom we might not fully agree, but who are as concerned about our shared life as we are.
Be grateful we have points of disagreement. That means (1) we're in a democracy (2) there is more to learn (3) we are not uniform (4) the world is rich and multifaceted.
I am grateful for a multitude of perspectives…it’s interesting to me how many of the comments show that many of us do seek them out. The civility and good will in these interactions is heartening.
I have also gained much from listening to datk horse. Its very interesting to me how little we really disagree on when all involved are being straight.
We are living in a special time. As a Catholic, I couldn't be more grateful for these types of conversations. Thank you Bishop Barron, Bret and Heather for setting the example!! This was heartwarming. I hope there is more 'dialogos' from WOF and the broader Catholic + human community.
God bless you today who's reading this comment have a blessed day love you all and we are praying for you in any situation you might find yourself. God is always there. Amen
This is a truly spectacular conversation. It’s full of so many insights and wisdom, explained so clearly and with such humility and clear intelligence. Thank you all and bless you !!!
@@ninaluz8710 God made the universe. Studying the universe is effectively studying God's fingerprint. To study any creation gives insight to the creator. To study all creation does give insight to its creator. This was one of the fundamental principles behind the origins science, assumptions like a rational universe based on a rational creator were necessary, and explains why it was Christians that gave rise to the scientific method... Not atheists.
I’ve been listening to this couple, along with Jordan Peterson and James Corbett of The Corbett Report for the last 2 years. Such respect for these people as well as Robert Kennedy Jnr. and the millions fighting for truth and freedom over lies.
I have listened to that same group of people. Including the Bishop though I'm not Catholic but I am an evangelical small E Christian. I'm not sure anyone presents the christian worldview better than him.
I hope that these three will meet and converse again. They all clearly have more to say! And I would love to listen. I do t think I’m the only one! A part two please!
Great conversation. Thank you Bishop and thanks to your guests, who approach biology from multiple starting points with an openness to reality, wherever it is uncovered.
God bless Bishop Barron and Word on Fire ministries. The way they facilitate conversation and create a inclusive forum to mine for the answers to the hard questions. Excellent!
Today I learn that breathing honors God my ancestor and creator who gave me the ability to breathe by giving me my first breath with His Holy Spirit. Thank you God my Father.
Wow, what a surprise to see the Weinsteins on here! Thank you, Jesus! These 2 have been my steady ground & voice of reason since the start of the pandemic. Thanks for having them on Bishop Barron! God be with you guys! Im really looking forward to this & am so very thankful! Yay! 💖🙏🏼😇
As a non-denominational Christian, I don’t have words for how much I have enjoyed this conversation. I have the deepest respect for both Heather & Bret and the Bishop. Thank you for reassuring me there are still reasonably and brilliant ‘adults in the room’ who can actually have a real conversation. Hence, my note to the leftist-bombastic LEADERS of this country, you might want to take note and lead accordingly. As it was said in the infamous “Office Space” movie, “that would be great”…
Thank you, these guests are comfortably thoughtful and articulate on so many diverse subjects. Even though it's unfortunate how they lost tenured positions, it really great for society to have them more available to a broader audience. Love, "Iam a very temporary custodian of something really important and ancient, ..."
When Bishop Barron asked the Weinstein’s to ground “the good”, he was essentially asking them a question about ontology. I noticed the answer Bishop received wasn’t an answer of ontology-the response was merely an account of how we’ve come to “know” the good, but that’s an epistemological response. Seems grounding the good on naturalism isn’t answered here. It’s hard to see that naturalism (or anything like it) could provide a foundation for the good. I enjoyed the interview however. As a Catholic, I do like the Weinsteins a lot and I am a regular listener of their DarkHorse UA-cam channel.
The best attempt was Plato. But Aristotle and Plotinus, in my opinion, really challenged him in a way that kept what was useful from Plato (form/pattern, logos, anagoge) and threw out what was not useful.
I thought it was answered quite well. The evolution of morality and why humans sacrifice opportunities for the sake of others. I suppose even when we’re ‘doing good’ there’s an agenda. Obviously the Bishop could have pushed back. This is the beauty of conversations without ego, there doesn’t have to be a winner ☺
Oh , oh oh , there’s a lot here, so beautiful, so deep , and heavy , yet not complicated for some reason to me. It came across my mind whenever I heard the word evolution that we have not extended our life span . Yes, somewhat, as opposed to centuries ago , but it has not grown exponentially in our advances in medicine and science. I always wonder about this. I don’t want it to grow, it’s not a complaint just an observation. This talk evokes the most wondrous happenings and phenomena daily. I love the simple question from Bishop Barron , “ why is there something rather than nothing? Thought and heart provoking, it’s beautiful. Bishop, this your niche, I’m telling you, this is how to break in . Keep it up . Couldn’t help but picture Bill Maher in one of those chairs . That would have been terrific. Thank you for this .
Janet Grupe I love our dear Bishop too , but Bill Maher would not be interviewed by him . I’d love for him , ( Bill ) to sit and engage and listen and ponder.
Janet Grupe Bishop Barron is quite capable of holding his own . I also get a sense that Bill wants to listen , perhaps he’s too proud, I don’t know. He’s an intelligent man and believe it or not I see a sensitive side to him .
@@anneturner2759 When I was an athiest, I didn't much care for Bill Maher because he was a "preachy" athiest. What I mean is that he isn't a scientist, he's a provocateur and he prefers to appear correct and superior. However, I have noticed he's calmed down a bit, so maybe he'd be different. I somehow doubt that he'd want to have a healthy dialog with Bishop, though. Bill definitely prefers to win arguments over having discussions based on my observations.
Wonderful exchange! Marvellous to see so many conversations now connecting various respected and diverse voices in our corner of the internet. I love the good faith evident in the exchanges between open minded proponents of free speech and genuine truth seeking.
"Keepers of the Flame" (-- Brett) I LOVE it! Through the darkest of times, the phrase, "Be the light that washes away the darkness," has kept me going. 🥲 Well said, Brett. You, too, Heather, of course! I simply love you two & am so very thankful for you. And thanks again, Bishop Barron, for having them on. They are extraordinary people! I appreciate you. All 3 of you have been a guiding light to my family. 🥲 God be with you & yours, always. Banks Family Massachusetts (USA) 💖🙏🏼🕊️
I enjoy Bret and Heather’s podcasts. I appreciate their perspective. I glean a great deal from Bishop Barron. I am deeply familiar with both perspectives. Thanks for this discussion. Consider: The Mandelbrot set has a beginning and an ending. It has limited area but infinite borders. The logistics map is the real number line of the Mandelbrot set. The Mandelbrot set is a mapping of Julia sets. Inclusion of the anti Mandelbrot ( those things which go to infinity) is a connection. The transformation of a grid circle into a grid Mandelbrot set is the shape of all life. It is not random. It is not random cellular automata. Emergence is not an accidental property. Emergence is an iterative property. Everything is flowing. Everything is flowing on minimal surfaces. The circle ⭕️ is the flat minimal surface. The grid circle transformation to grid Mandelbrot set is a function of the flow from minimal surface flat circle to catenoid to hyperboloid, toroid spheroid and helicoid. Within the toroid are the batwing minimal surfaces which are the transformations of the grid Mandelbrot: Julia set. These forms are in the Bose -Einstein condensate and all particle-waves as Quaternions. The flow of Quaternions flow on/as helicoid-waves which are solenoidal. The transformation of non living to living occurred as a separation of the “water’s from the waters”. This means that not only do you need the elements necessary for life but also the effectively impossible odds by which our lunar system developed. If the Mandelbrot set( as a function of a transformation of grid circle into Mandelbrot set: Julia sets) is the form of everything then it precedes material existence. The Mandelbrot set explains why the brain has 2 hemispheres and why there is both contralateral and ipsilateral neural pathways.
@@TheMeaningCode I am not a public figure. I can send you information. I see that you have interviewed several public figures on their ideas. The social media space is full of hate and vengeance which I have experienced.
@@TheMeaningCode The instrument is not the note The orchestra is not the symphony The wires are not the electricity The brain is not the mind The universe is not the math // How can a man mistake his wife for a hat? How do we explain synesthesias? How can some people recall their entire lives and most of us struggle to recall yesterday’s meals? How can some people draw from memory entire cities views in an instant while flying over the city? If memory: mind is a connection (s) then what does a protein plaque have to do with them? When DNA is snapped open in relation to memory and only some of the proteins are related to synaptic functions what are the other proteins doing? If memory:mind is a connection how does a slime mold remember or solve a problem? Does a spider use its web to extend its mind? If so then how does it know how to make a specific design? What is the genetic “code” from which a spider builds its web( mind)? Furthermore why are some spiders webs funnel, radial or chaos shaped? And why can’t I see with another’s “mind”? ( that was just my left side) Is consciousness a layered function; iterations to chaos patterns where the next iteration to bifurcation is like the logistics mapping ( 3.57 connection-signals to the next power level) and cobweb plot of the Mandelbrot set? // Look and look again perceptions waves and particle spins Mind and matter Entangled maths Geometries in matrixes Connections and flows In fractals And patterns Everything grows
@@jamesmorris8600 The short answer? The real foundational question is whether or not ALL of reality is contained within spacetime? To the atheist it is. To the theist, space and time are created things. It takes more faith to believe that the universe was just "there", that is, ex nihilo with no creative agent. A pre-existing particle or the infinite regress of the multiverse do not constitute "beginnings". It takes less faith, IMO, to believe that an infinite-personal God, who "exists" outside of spacetime and who created space, time, and everything contained therein. God's existence can address the issues of origin, morals, meaning, and destiny. Atheism explains nothing. The planets are silent. All the planets allow for are social contracts and arbitrary absolutes. IF there is a reality OUTSIDE of spacetime, using the tools of Greek logic, to/from and before/after, that are trapped INSIDE spacetime, are useless to determine the existence of anything outside of spacetime. So saying God isn't "logical" makes no sense. God "exists" outside of logic. My quick 2¢. Sorry for being long-winded.
Love how Bishop Barron keeps bringing them back on the why morality question. Currently reading Stacy Trasancos book Particles Of Faith. I think it's a bit relevant to this conversation about scientific proofs for God. Recommend.
Ahhhhh👀🤯🥳🤓🙏🏼!!!!!! Some of my favorite public intellectuals getting together. I would have never in a million years expected this collaboration. Thank you to all involved in making this happen. ❤️
Absolutely riveting discussion for points of intersection between evolutionists and creationists, not to mention good source material for my next homily about God as Trinity.
This is a great model of the discussion encouraged by Vatican II in Gaudium et Spes, and a great model of the shared search for meaning among thinking people who probably do not agree on everything but can have such a constructive discussion. I think it is of value for classroom use at the upper levels of high school and in undergrad. courses. No one was "calling out", "checking", or seeking to "cancel" anyone, absurd as those terms are.
Loved the conversation! On a production note, the audio suffers when you rest your chin in your hand. It seems to be a common position for you, so maybe a boom mic or desktop mic makes more sense?
What an awesome couple, it’s been a minute since I have listened to both of you talk, but never quite like this. Great conversation despite I obviously assume differences. And Heather you are rockin your look! It’s just cool to see not just educated people but intelligent committed couples. Plus learned galaxy rotation is centered by black holes! Love conversations that don’t have to be contentious, like everybody could be friends.
Theology meets science: Brett got out of the question, of the mathematical improbability of this universe, by saying physics claims we might have an infinite number of universes. Therefore we just happen to be in the one, that works mathematically. Brett talked himself into implying God exists, when he said that. Why so? Because an infinite number of universes would contain an infinite number of intelligences. What is a standard word for something with infinite intelligence? God.
Loving the people sitting here discussing and learning if it is possible to walk in hypostatic union and how to do so. God is at the table too exuding joy just being there with the kids.
more of this, please. if we'd enjoyed this level of discourse the MOMENT sound files could be transmittted on the web 20 years ago, I wonder if we'd be in a better place today.
I don't believe it's coincidental that we now have a mechanism which would enable us to converse more and more freely than ever before while simultaneously having a movement preventing us from using this tool to seek and find truth.
Wow, this is really good. It’s actually much easier to let Jesus Christ into my heart and take up the center of my life when our Lord’s good news is borne with such dignity and grace. Bishop, I love you and I’m so grateful I found your voice on here.
excellent format and filming.. hope to see more of these, with you speaking with those in related disciplines with the Church. thank you for this Bishop Barron.
The blessed Bishop did a superb job at charitably revealing the contradiction of presupposing purpose, goals, mathematical truths and moral value in an emergent mechanical universe.
I was listening out for this POV and I didn’t perceive it. Rather, from his body language I feel as though he restrained himself immensely, it was quite funny to behold. He wisely made the correct decision ☺
Love this. Genesis has two creation stories - it’s point wasn’t to tell you scientifically how you were made, but rather to illustrate no matter how God did it, you are special in creation. Him molding man from the elements of this earth in Genesis 2 sounds like Darwin to me. Evolution is quite welcome in our cozy Christian corner 😎☕️
@@duartem3586 No, it doesn’t deny God and is not false. When you get stuck at that false dichotomy, you are doing exactly what this interview speaks to as a barrier to further conversation.
I really enjoyed this discourse. I’ve listened to a great many of Bishop Barron’s presentations on the “intelligibility of the universe” and stayed with you, Bishop, as you asked your questions. (I felt I knew where you were going with it) What I was happy to hear were the responses of your guests. I heard/learned another way of thinking. Did it change my mind? Not at all but I was grateful for the exposure.(WOF offers many such opportunities/ presentations) I’m not ok with saying I don’t need to go down that route when an intuitive thought peaks my imagination. Thanks to WOF, I’ve learned how to think, question and dialogue on many topics. The variety of WOF fellows/speakers presented have opened my mind in an otherwise hectic world full of distractions, many disordered, that want to pull us away from spirituality and our right praise of God. Thanks for this presentation. Your guest speakers were outstanding, as,of course, you were Bishop Barron.
Yes, when a scientists confronts questions that science cannot answer because they are metaphysical questions, they should think about those questions and read what others, especially philosophers and theologians have written because they are humans first, scientists second.
The study of science (physics, biology, astronomy) has deepened my faith. It does not provide a definitive proof of God, but it is one influence that has deepened my belief. Dr. Francis Collins wrote a book titled “The Language of God” that provides an excellent reconciliation of science and faith. Rather than illuminating a God of the gaps in our knowledge, he shows a God of Aquinas’s understanding as being itself. Great discussion.
Ironically, that book is pretty obsolete and Collins has taken much heat for it. ENCODE 2012 pretty much killed neo-Darwinism. Read Genetic Entropy, Signature in the Cell, Foresight, and others. Darwinian theory is done.
@@dave1370 Collins’ book is a bit dated. I have heard him in more recent discussions respond to some of the criticisms, and discuss the accepted science to date and enduring truths that he attempts to illuminate in the book. I know that during the pandemic he was widely criticized for his leadership of NIH (in some instances rightly so). Einstein said that the most incomprehensible thing about the universe is just how comprehensible it is. Collins’ points to some of the lasting constants and equations that bring about that comprehension. For me, some of the book and the direction of his argument was as much philosophy/theology as it was science. Thanks so much for the additional sources. I sincerely appreciate you taking the time to pass them on. Have a blessed day.
I am finding this discussion very interesting while typing up NUMBERS 36 in the Bible on the Day 86 of The Bible in 1 Year in Chronological Order and I would like to hear more like this while I have a long way to still type until I reach Day 365!
Really interesting conversation with Bret and Heather. Brett, when I've had some close calls I don't consider it dumb luck that got me thru. I believe I was protected by God, probably with an angel's or angels' help during spiritual warfare. Live another day to do my God-given mission. B & H had a lot of insight on porn and proper sexuality with one's life partner. And H is right: amidst uncaring nature (Hound of Heaven poem addresses this), we have each other to protect one another.
Wow, he really pushed them to the obsurd limits of their faith in the mechanical "emergent " nature of the universe. You can visibly see them getting more and more anxious as Barron subtly keeps pressing. Then he politly changes the subject back to their book. That was beautifully done by Bishop Barron. Edit: 51:02 This is where their belief (or faith) breaks down, and starts contradicting itself.
Three true American intellectuals… and individuals of social action….. a rare combination…. all three you would want to be in the foxhole with…. if all hell breaks loose!! 🇺🇸♥️✝️
An immense pleasure to discover Heather Heying and Bret Weinstein Bishop Barron's company and enjoying every word said in this thoughtful conversation. Many thanks for this open view.
My two favorite questions by the bishop were, Why something rather than nothing?, and What explains the powerful drive to continue living (--and perhaps he could equally well have asked about the experience of love). I was disappointed that the scientists did not directly handle the first question; and I wish the bishop had pressed them further on the second. The scientists could have quickly admitted they have no idea why there's something instead of nothing--or, pointed to some interesting current arguments that have come to light, about which I would know nothing. As for the second question, I can see how the scientists can answer all questions regarding our internal lives with an evolutionary explanation; but there is again a line between the evolutionary process that explains our experiences mechanistically, and the guessed-at metaphysical cause through which the "possibility" of these things can seem to "pre-exist. " This is really a question, and not the beginning of a speech. I am sure that the bishop and the scientists are better able to discuss this point than me. I wish they had.
please use more specific terms. They are evolutionary biologists. Calling them 'scientists' is not helpful. You aren't calling the bishop 'the catholic'. I would think the will/drive to live is far better answered by a neuroscientist. 'something rather than nothing': pretty existential. I don't know how any field scientist would have more to offer than more questions.
@@angelinejohnson9511 I disagree that evolutionary biologists would not have a natural interest in the origin of pretty much any of the impulses that arise in all of us humans. And indeed, they gave their answer. I'm just saying that the catholic could have pressed the question about one level deeper, and I wish that he had. These questions are hardly esoteric, and the evolutionary scientists were perfectly capable of speculating with the catholic on this, but the conversation happened to continue on to other things, as conversations do. These guys are all three much better educated, widely read, and "expert adjacent" (if you will) than me, and these two questions were perfectly run of the mill--but I've never heard them deeply discussed between two evolutionary scientists and a theologian. And I still haven't. :)
@@angelinejohnson9511 I didn't expect the evolutionary scientists to have a special corner on the "pretty existential" question (indeed!) of something from nothing, and I didn't imagine that the catholic was asking the question to them so much as to evolutionary scientists, but more so as to people who are deeply fluent in a discipline of science and who have almost certainly entertained the question, in a speculative manner, not just within themselves, but also in close proximity to any number of mathematicians or physicists who like to speculate on the question. (I assume these two run in more interesting circles than I do, at least on this kind of thing.) I would have enjoyed hearing a much rounder account of their thoughts on the subject. Just saying.
One good thing that came out of the Evergreen experience is that we can experience conversations like this one with Bret and Heather on You Tube. Evergreen's loss in a gain for the rest of us.
Bret continues to frustrate me. In this conversation and the one with Pageau, he continues to use science. But when they push him on the presumptions on science, he either uses more science (which can’t account for its own presumptions) or he says that faith is a presumption with no evidence. It’s widely irritating then when asked about why something is good he just tells me how it is good. John Vervaeke is right. He have created a scientific worldview in which we are absent from it. We have no home in science. Also, there isn’t only emergence, there is also emanation.
@@christopherhamilton3621 I think there is both emanation and emergence (Neoplatonism). So I think Bret is the one negating here. For me, science is just a tool. There is no scientific worldview. People who talk of a scientific worldview are really just absenting themselves from the world.
@@mariog1490 I am a big JV fan: what is the source of that scientific worldview reference please? I need to understand it & the context to be on the same page. Thanks.
@@christopherhamilton3621 sorry, I watch a lot of his videos. I don’t have an exact reference for you. But he says it all the time. I think he might’ve talked about it in the 4 horsemen podcast (obliquely) and his first conversation with Jonathan Pageau. I’m not sure though.
Can anyone tell me why youtube doesn't show the publish date for videos? I really like understanding when in time these conversations occur. many thanks
As crazy as things are in the world, its the plethora of podcasts/channels like this where a diversity of people and ideas are exchanged in good faith. There is a beautiful cross-pollination going on and it gives me great hope
I still think these modern podcasts prove that people always would have and could have listened to and followed complicated, deep, long form discussions in the public sphere, but our overlords always said we were too stupid and could only pay attention for five minutes. I love seeing this stuff emerge
I'm a itty-bitty "baby Catholic" having just completed RCIA and the Sacraments of Initiation earlier this month and I am often elated as I get further acquainted with my newfound faith and the Church... but... I also love and carry with me 15 years of getting to know the Gaia Hypothesis/Theory, a singular planet life or "Earthlife" paradigm considered by some astro-, molecular- and evolutionary biologists. This past year I have been blown away by discovering (what I believe to be) attributes of Gaia Theory in Catholicism and I credit both Bishop Barron and the priest at my local parish, Fr. Todd Strange, for sending out a message of science-oriented acceptance that encourages me to feel comfortable and confident in pursuing knowledge about two seemingly detached and disjointed perspectives on life, the universe and God.
Hi Sarah. I just want to inform you that there is only Father God. There is no Mother Earth. You are mashing together to religions to make a religion for yourself; this is called syncretism. If you see any similarity in Gaia Theory and Catholicism, I would question that; it could be a strong deception from the Enemy. I'm surprised you made it through a year of RCIA and you are still worshipping the goddess. (I'm being sarcastic here: I'm sure Almighty God is thrilled that you made a little room for Him.)
@@janetgrupe9870 The Gaia Theory, or any scientific theory for that matter, is a conceptual structure used in research of natural and observable phenomena thus I'm surprised that you would equate it to goddess worship and religion. It's not disagreeable to find science in faith. When I recite the Nicene Creed and say that God is the maker of heaven and earth I am affirming that God is also ultimately responsible for what we find in the study of biospheric science too... in fact we were told by our priest not to shy away from it because he believes the study of sciences eventually leads back to God. I think Bishop Barron is trying to send out the same message too.
@@sarahgames7617 I am familiar with the scientific method. I guess the word 'Gaia' carries certain connotations. After working in academia a dozen years, I haven't heard that phrase used. I wouldn't even call it pseudo-science. It's considered ancient mythology. Here are some quick Google definitions: One of the Greek primordial deities. the personification of the Earth, as "Mother Earth", she was the second element in the evolution of the cosmos after Chaos- the primordial void, one of her first offspring was Ouranos, the sky god, who became her lover and later abuser. she encouraged her son Kronos to castrate Ouranos and throw his genitals across the sea. It's more than 2,000 years since she was first worshipped. Today, this false god is back largely thanks to the scientist and environmentalist James Lovelock, whose Gaia hypothesis describes how all living organism form part of an interconnected, self-regulating ecosystem. "For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear." 2 Timothy 4:3 Please forgive the annoying capital letters: TO BE SAVED WE NEED JESUS PLUS NOTHING ELSE
@@janetgrupe9870 I'm not fond of the word "Gaia" and its inclusion to describe this particular paradigm. Maybe in the future, through research and discovery, a better fitting word or description will eventually be found. Something that doesn't trigger people into calling it "goddess worship" when there is no basis for it what so ever. But regardless of that, I will continue to enjoy learning about a subject that I find fascinating a little understood and if I encounter difficult moments where it challenges my faith in God I have no doubt that I will receive kindness and compassion through prayer and a couple conversations with my priest and other trustworthy folks at church. Thank you for your concern.
Brett, yes, hummingbirds are remarkable (and beautiful). Agree. In my view, it's logical to see the beauty and elegance of the hummingbird as evidence of a Creator and Designer. Natural selection and random mutations seem to be inadequate mechanisms to bring about beauty, elegance, coordinated systems engineeering (digestive system, cardio-pulmonary system, reproductive system, etc.) in creatures. Also, where are all the transitional and failed designs? Mutations can cause genetic diseases (like cancer). Evolution seems contrary to the scientific principle of entropy.
I may be the only viewer with an opposing view, but I found Profs. Weinstein & Heying used a lot of words to say very little. Bishop Barron’s conversations with his guests are usually thought provoking, but this one left me scratching my head. Just because they used Chesterton’s fence as an analogy in their book does not mean they lend credence to the Christian faith. After all, Chesterton’s God is not a useful mean to some end.
oh I used to LOVE walking past the museum in Ann Arbor en route to/from classes, and reading that quote: Go and see for yourself. It was so inspiring: what I need, what all of us trying to do science need -- and what anyone else trying to forward human knowledge needs. My thanks for this conversation.
As cardinal Martini said "the problem is not between believers and not believers. Is about thinkers and not thinkers". And by the way, getting vaccinated is not an "act of love". Is an act of obedience.
I'm an Evergreen alum. I graduated in 2017. I went through RCIA and confirmation in 2019.
I witnessed Bret's trouble, but I was socially and academically closer to the people who persecuted him than those who defended him. I lost nearly all of my friends in Oly over the next few years, but I gained so much more. I will carry Bret and Heather's example of moral courage with me for the rest of my life.
I am incredibly grateful for this conversation. Thank you for hosting them, Bishop. Please bless them, and bless those who are persecuted in academia for seeking truth in a world of lies and flattery. 🙏
@@theologyofthebody8383 A couple of questions I have asked of people who “go woke”: Do you think you HAVE to accept the Woke mentality in order to keep or maintain a social image of yourself as a young person (18-35) because you see what happens to those who don’t choose the “woke” dogma? Are you afraid of the fallout of what happens to those reject wokeism ?
Do the the woke dominate through fear?
I think people would be interested in hearing *your* story, Amber Emily :-) God bless you for having the courage to own your stance towards Brett and Heather while they were going through their difficulties at Evergreen....how did you move towards RCIA and confirmation from that place?
You're a greener who says "bless you". I thought I was the only one.
Very very cool. I was a Marxist when I was young… (I’m 50 and fairly conservative as I age) so maybe it’s a common experience to see the left play out, and learn as we grow. Glad you commented.
I agree with MS. I’ll add that I wasn’t aware of their experience at the time, but have discovered them through their podcast during the public health issue the last two years, (still!, not aware of the Evergreen occurrence!)
I finally had to explore further what happened, what was this Evergreen thing? Shocking!, no doubt. I listened to/ watched hours of interviews, video of student mobs, faculty meetings...
I finished high school in the 90’s, attended/ grad LSU late 90’s. This mobbing, cornering and agitating, and total lack of conversation has been shocking- not surprising (given the temperature of opposing sets of the last little while, I’m not really sure, as I’d have to admit I must have not been paying attention... admittedly) This tactic of dealing with the world and each other, I don’t think was my generations way of going about social gains...
One of the things that I have been curious of again and again is just what Amber Emily states here, and thank you for doing so. I have wondered how these young adults have developed outlooks and insights since Evergreen. If their stance has moved them to dig their heels even deeper... or has time, life experience broadened their view of those in their concentric circles of interaction and influence gained their consideration and respect- have they figured out that many of those that were the subject of their vilification had viewed them with mutual respect (and even in the face of the mob really tried to have reasonable dialogue.)
I do wonder if many “outgrew” their rage... thank you, again for your comment. I do think it is met with understanding, compassion, and appreciation.
I love the fact the Bishop is taking notes and is always trying to learn more. The best teachers are also the best students.
I think those are just his interview prep notes rather than study notes. The host of the unbelievable podcast who do hour long interviews like this one does the same.
Yes, and he adds to them.
Inspector please
I would imagine he's either crossing off pre written questions(it looks like he does it several times during the interview) or adding new questions he could ask. I think it would be inappropriate to spend time writing "study notes" as the interviewer
He recently did a talk on this topic to a different audience and presented the argument he had for that talk to these folks. He added info for further discussion to his notes which he wrote while reading their book with his arguments in mind.
The Good Bishop Barron has a lightening fast mind and goes to the heart of the great questions. As a son of a biologist and chemist I grew up in a science/faith family. All compatible, trust me.
They are more than "compatible." They are married, and their fruit is a theology in itself. A lot of science much include a love of art. Part of the problems we have in medicine, is science with out CONscience. Too many "smarts," too little wisdom. Fear and feelings, over faith and facts. REAL science affirms and is affirmed by the faith. And faith, affirms and is affirmed by...science. It's all from, of, for and by God.
@@jac1161 I'm just curious, is the wonderful fruit of this marriage between faith and science include the theology of Islam or Hinduism, or does it only include Christian theology which, by the sheerest accident, you just happened to be born into?
Of course they are compatible since God created everything ♥️
@@thanksforbeingausefulidiot9016 Where they each encounter an immutable truth, they share that encounter in common. This is certainly what Christian theology would say. Any honest Christian would say that Islam touches upon inevitable truths. The question is not about that, but rather about the fullness of truth. This is where the fundamental divide is found and it is encumbent on each person to work to discern and understand that divide.
This is such a strange cross-over. I listen to these podcasts totally independently of one another, and for totally different reasons. Now they're crashing into each other. Should be fascinating.
Same here. Have you seen the one with Brett and Jonathan Pageu? You should if you have not.
I also watch both! So surprised to see this!
It's not really strange. The Catholic Church and Bishop Barron personally both stand behind evolution rather than a literal reading of Creation in Genesis 1, they just teach that evolution was caused by God.
Love to see science and religion getting along. It is kinda wild to see them on his show, ngl. It's nice though.
@@josemartinez6316 you are so good I can oooooioiiioioiooj
Bishop Barron was unbelievably sharp and on top of the ball with this conversation! Loved his persistence with questions that cut right to the heart of truth.
Great and gentle conversation. Thank you, Bishop Barron, Heather and Brett!
Wow. I’ve been listening to Brett and Heather throughout the whole pandemic. I so appreciate their deep intelligence and insights.
I’m also an original Word on Fire Institute member and super excited about its reach and mission. I’m so happy to see these conversations, Bishop Barron, with learned, thoughtful and articulate people in our culture with whom we might not fully agree, but who are as concerned about our shared life as we are.
Be grateful we have points of disagreement. That means (1) we're in a democracy (2) there is more to learn (3) we are not uniform (4) the world is rich and multifaceted.
Hello Debi how are you doing over there?
I am grateful for a multitude of perspectives…it’s interesting to me how many of the comments show that many of us do seek them out. The civility and good will in these interactions is heartening.
I have also gained much from listening to datk horse. Its very interesting to me how little we really disagree on when all involved are being straight.
And they have a great energy. And just stands out more when them two are together. Makes me feel so relaxed/ present.
We are living in a special time. As a Catholic, I couldn't be more grateful for these types of conversations. Thank you Bishop Barron, Bret and Heather for setting the example!! This was heartwarming. I hope there is more 'dialogos' from WOF and the broader Catholic + human community.
I agree, as a non catholic but a steady listener to all three of these extremely intelligent people.
Hello Michael how are you doing over there?
Very well spoken Michael.
God bless you today who's reading this comment have a blessed day love you all and we are praying for you in any situation you might find yourself. God is always there. Amen
This is a truly spectacular conversation. It’s full of so many insights and wisdom, explained so clearly and with such humility and clear intelligence. Thank you all and bless you !!!
Enlightening, and intellectually and spiritually nourishing. Thank you Bishop Barron and WoF staff for the outstanding content
Three very philosophical people having a conversation in a civil manner. What a breath of fresh air.
I'm old school, I believe science is investigating God's creation.
Sounds like Deism
@@davyroger3773 or... You know... Every scientist pre 1800
@@kaufmanat1 Dat Natural Theology tho
Yes I agree God will allow Science to discover Him🙏
@@ninaluz8710 God made the universe. Studying the universe is effectively studying God's fingerprint. To study any creation gives insight to the creator. To study all creation does give insight to its creator. This was one of the fundamental principles behind the origins science, assumptions like a rational universe based on a rational creator were necessary, and explains why it was Christians that gave rise to the scientific method... Not atheists.
I’ve been listening to this couple, along with Jordan Peterson and James Corbett of The Corbett Report for the last 2 years. Such respect for these people as well as Robert Kennedy Jnr. and the millions fighting for truth and freedom over lies.
@HeartSpace Relaxations like yourself, many of my friends and I "discovered" Bret & Heather, we are grateful for their input and the discussions.
I have listened to that same group of people. Including the Bishop though I'm not Catholic but I am an evangelical small E Christian. I'm not sure anyone presents the christian worldview better than him.
Super conversation....bravo and thumbs up...thank you to 3 people who are making us think..peace
I hope that these three will meet and converse again. They all clearly have more to say! And I would love to listen. I do t think I’m the only one! A part two please!
Great conversation. Thank you Bishop and thanks to your guests, who approach biology from multiple starting points with an openness to reality, wherever it is uncovered.
that was a wonderful discussion between well-read and highly intelligent people. Hope to see more of these on these channel!
God bless Bishop Barron and Word on Fire ministries. The way they facilitate conversation and create a inclusive forum to mine for the answers to the hard questions. Excellent!
Today I learn that breathing honors God my ancestor and creator who gave me the ability to breathe by giving me my first breath with His Holy Spirit. Thank you God my Father.
Hello brenda how's it going with you over there?
We are in the golden age of content and independent collaboration. This is so cool.
Such a relief to see respectful dialog between scientists and religious figures, all of whom are thinking deeply =)
Wow, what a surprise to see the Weinsteins on here! Thank you, Jesus! These 2 have been my steady ground & voice of reason since the start of the pandemic. Thanks for having them on Bishop Barron! God be with you guys! Im really looking forward to this & am so very thankful! Yay! 💖🙏🏼😇
As a non-denominational Christian, I don’t have words for how much I have enjoyed this conversation. I have the deepest respect for both Heather & Bret and the Bishop. Thank you for reassuring me there are still reasonably and brilliant ‘adults in the room’ who can actually have a real conversation. Hence, my note to the leftist-bombastic LEADERS of this country, you might want to take note and lead accordingly. As it was said in the infamous “Office Space” movie, “that would be great”…
Convert to Catholicism! You won't regret it, I promise!
God bless, friend!
Mike Judge also wrote Idiocracy
Our "leaders" are too stupid and lost, so let us let the Dead bury the Dead.
Thank you, these guests are comfortably thoughtful and articulate on so many diverse subjects. Even though it's unfortunate how they lost tenured positions, it really great for society to have them more available to a broader audience.
Love, "Iam a very temporary custodian of something really important and ancient, ..."
When Bishop Barron asked the Weinstein’s to ground “the good”, he was essentially asking them a question about ontology. I noticed the answer Bishop received wasn’t an answer of ontology-the response was merely an account of how we’ve come to “know” the good, but that’s an epistemological response. Seems grounding the good on naturalism isn’t answered here. It’s hard to see that naturalism (or anything like it) could provide a foundation for the good. I enjoyed the interview however. As a Catholic, I do like the Weinsteins a lot and I am a regular listener of their DarkHorse UA-cam channel.
The best attempt was Plato. But Aristotle and Plotinus, in my opinion, really challenged him in a way that kept what was useful from Plato (form/pattern, logos, anagoge) and threw out what was not useful.
I thought it was answered quite well. The evolution of morality and why humans sacrifice opportunities for the sake of others. I suppose even when we’re ‘doing good’ there’s an agenda. Obviously the Bishop could have pushed back. This is the beauty of conversations without ego, there doesn’t have to be a winner ☺
Incredibly excited for this one. Three of my all time favourite thinkers coming together for what is sure to be a stupendous discussion.
I concur with this comment whole heartedly! 3 of some of the greatest minds together in one room ♥️
Wonderful exchange! Three of my favorite people.
Thank you Bishop, God Bless you.
Bishop Barron is an amazing interviewer. This was really wonderful .
Thank you, dear free and courageous people🙏🇭🇷
Oh , oh oh , there’s a lot here, so beautiful, so deep , and heavy , yet not complicated for some reason to me. It came across my mind whenever I heard the word evolution that we have not extended our life span . Yes, somewhat, as opposed to centuries ago , but it has not grown exponentially in our advances in medicine and science. I always wonder about this. I don’t want it to grow, it’s not a complaint just an observation. This talk evokes the most wondrous happenings and phenomena daily. I love the simple question from Bishop Barron , “ why is there something rather than nothing? Thought and heart provoking, it’s beautiful.
Bishop, this your niche, I’m telling you, this is how to break in . Keep it up . Couldn’t help but picture Bill Maher in one of those chairs . That would have been terrific. Thank you for this .
Hello Anne how are you doing over there?
Janet Grupe I love our dear Bishop too , but Bill Maher would not be interviewed by him . I’d love for him , ( Bill ) to sit and engage and listen and ponder.
Janet Grupe
Bishop Barron is quite capable of holding his own . I also get a sense that Bill wants to listen , perhaps he’s too proud, I don’t know. He’s an intelligent man and believe it or not I see a sensitive side to him .
@@anneturner2759 When I was an athiest, I didn't much care for Bill Maher because he was a "preachy" athiest. What I mean is that he isn't a scientist, he's a provocateur and he prefers to appear correct and superior.
However, I have noticed he's calmed down a bit, so maybe he'd be different. I somehow doubt that he'd want to have a healthy dialog with Bishop, though. Bill definitely prefers to win arguments over having discussions based on my observations.
Rachel thanks for your reply. I feel Bill wants to know more about God. Just a hunch , something I sense in him.
Bishop Barron is spot-on in going after form and final causality!
Wonderful exchange! Marvellous to see so many conversations now connecting various respected and diverse voices in our corner of the internet. I love the good faith evident in the exchanges between open minded proponents of free speech and genuine truth seeking.
Hello Dawn how are you doing over there?
"Keepers of the Flame" (-- Brett)
I LOVE it!
Through the darkest of times, the phrase, "Be the light that washes away the darkness," has kept me going. 🥲
Well said, Brett.
You, too, Heather, of course!
I simply love you two & am so very thankful for you.
And thanks again, Bishop Barron, for having them on. They are extraordinary people! I appreciate you. All 3 of you have been a guiding light to my family. 🥲 God be with you & yours, always.
Banks Family
Massachusetts (USA)
💖🙏🏼🕊️
I enjoy Bret and Heather’s podcasts. I appreciate their perspective. I glean a great deal from Bishop Barron. I am deeply familiar with both perspectives. Thanks for this discussion.
Consider:
The Mandelbrot set has a beginning and an ending. It has limited area but infinite borders. The logistics map is the real number line of the Mandelbrot set. The Mandelbrot set is a mapping of Julia sets. Inclusion of the anti Mandelbrot ( those things which go to infinity) is a connection. The transformation of a grid circle into a grid Mandelbrot set is the shape of all life. It is not random. It is not random cellular automata. Emergence is not an accidental property. Emergence is an iterative property. Everything is flowing. Everything is flowing on minimal surfaces. The circle ⭕️ is the flat minimal surface. The grid circle transformation to grid Mandelbrot set is a function of the flow from minimal surface flat circle to catenoid to hyperboloid, toroid spheroid and helicoid. Within the toroid are the batwing minimal surfaces which are the transformations of the grid Mandelbrot: Julia set. These forms are in the Bose -Einstein condensate and all particle-waves as Quaternions. The flow of Quaternions flow on/as helicoid-waves which are solenoidal.
The transformation of non living to living occurred as a separation of the “water’s from the waters”. This means that not only do you need the elements necessary for life but also the effectively impossible odds by which our lunar system developed.
If the Mandelbrot set( as a function of a transformation of grid circle into Mandelbrot set: Julia sets) is the form of everything then it precedes material existence.
The Mandelbrot set explains why the brain has 2 hemispheres and why there is both contralateral and ipsilateral neural pathways.
Any chance I could explore this idea with you on my UA-cam channel?
@@TheMeaningCode I am not a public figure. I can send you information.
I see that you have interviewed several public figures on their ideas. The social media space is full of hate and vengeance which I have experienced.
@@TheMeaningCode it would be interesting though
@@TheMeaningCode do you know why the brain has 2 hemispheres?
@@TheMeaningCode The instrument is not the note
The orchestra is not the symphony
The wires are not the electricity
The brain is not the mind
The universe is not the math
//
How can a man mistake his wife for a hat?
How do we explain synesthesias?
How can some people recall their entire lives and most of us struggle to recall yesterday’s meals?
How can some people draw from memory entire cities views in an instant while flying over the city?
If memory: mind is a connection (s) then what does a protein plaque have to do with them?
When DNA is snapped open in relation to memory and only some of the proteins are related to synaptic functions what are the other proteins doing?
If memory:mind is a connection how does a slime mold remember or solve a problem?
Does a spider use its web to extend its mind? If so then how does it know how to make a specific design? What is the genetic “code” from which a spider builds its web( mind)? Furthermore why are some spiders webs funnel, radial or chaos shaped? And why can’t I see with another’s “mind”? ( that was just my left side)
Is consciousness a layered function; iterations to chaos patterns where the next iteration to bifurcation is like the logistics mapping ( 3.57 connection-signals to the next power level) and cobweb plot of the Mandelbrot set?
//
Look and look
again perceptions
waves and particle spins
Mind and matter
Entangled maths
Geometries in matrixes
Connections and flows
In fractals
And patterns
Everything grows
Wonderful. Just wonderful. I'm a theist and I could listen to Dr. Weinstein and Dr. Heying...ALL. DAY. LONG. Thank you.
Why are you a theist.
@@jamesmorris8600 The short answer? The real foundational question is whether or not ALL of reality is contained within spacetime? To the atheist it is. To the theist, space and time are created things. It takes more faith to believe that the universe was just "there", that is, ex nihilo with no creative agent. A pre-existing particle or the infinite regress of the multiverse do not constitute "beginnings".
It takes less faith, IMO, to believe that an infinite-personal God, who "exists" outside of spacetime and who created space, time, and everything contained therein. God's existence can address the issues of origin, morals, meaning, and destiny. Atheism explains nothing. The planets are silent. All the planets allow for are social contracts and arbitrary absolutes.
IF there is a reality OUTSIDE of spacetime, using the tools of Greek logic, to/from and before/after, that are trapped INSIDE spacetime, are useless to determine the existence of anything outside of spacetime. So saying God isn't "logical" makes no sense. God "exists" outside of logic. My quick 2¢. Sorry for being long-winded.
Thank you Bishop for doing your part to address the meaning crisis in which modern western society is experiencing.
Great intelligent calm conversation. I love Gentle discussion. Blessings to all
Wonderful. Thought provoking. Civil. Fascinating. Encouraging. Concerning.
I liked how you mentioned that "Nature" isn't out to get you, but that it really doesn't care.
it was only the Government etc that didn't want the conversation NOT the people, those that aren't sheep
Love how Bishop Barron keeps bringing them back on the why morality question.
Currently reading Stacy Trasancos book Particles Of Faith. I think it's a bit relevant to this conversation about scientific proofs for God. Recommend.
Ahhhhh👀🤯🥳🤓🙏🏼!!!!!! Some of my favorite public intellectuals getting together. I would have never in a million years expected this collaboration. Thank you to all involved in making this happen. ❤️
Beautiful conversation. Thank you. 🙏🏽
Absolutely riveting discussion for points of intersection between evolutionists and creationists, not to mention good source material for my next homily about God as Trinity.
This is a great model of the discussion encouraged by Vatican II in Gaudium et Spes, and a great model of the shared search for meaning among thinking people who probably do not agree on everything but can have such a constructive discussion. I think it is of value for classroom use at the upper levels of high school and in undergrad. courses. No one was "calling out", "checking", or seeking to "cancel" anyone, absurd as those terms are.
Loved the conversation! On a production note, the audio suffers when you rest your chin in your hand. It seems to be a common position for you, so maybe a boom mic or desktop mic makes more sense?
What an awesome couple, it’s been a minute since I have listened to both of you talk, but never quite like this. Great conversation despite I obviously assume differences. And Heather you are rockin your look! It’s just cool to see not just educated people but intelligent committed couples. Plus learned galaxy rotation is centered by black holes! Love conversations that don’t have to be contentious, like everybody could be friends.
2:41...or to quote Jordan Peterson " what exactly do you mean by Believe?" That o serrations Dr Weinstien is so sublime and brilliant 👏
This was an amazing civil discussion. Thoroughly enjoyed it. Theology, philosophy, and science meet.
Theology meets science: Brett got out of the question, of the mathematical improbability of this universe, by saying physics claims we might have an infinite number of universes. Therefore we just happen to be in the one, that works mathematically. Brett talked himself into implying God exists, when he said that. Why so? Because an infinite number of universes would contain an infinite number of intelligences. What is a standard word for something with infinite intelligence? God.
Listen to both podcasts love that they have come together ❤️. We must never forget to discuss, debate and we will find commonality
Loving the people sitting here discussing and learning if it is possible to walk in hypostatic union and how to do so. God is at the table too exuding joy just being there with the kids.
more of this, please. if we'd enjoyed this level of discourse the MOMENT sound files could be transmittted on the web 20 years ago, I wonder if we'd be in a better place today.
I don't believe it's coincidental that we now have a mechanism which would enable us to converse more and more freely than ever before while simultaneously having a movement preventing us from using this tool to seek and find truth.
Hello Jen how are you doing over there?
3 national treasures in one place! So grateful for this conversation.
So relevant conversation! I applaud the three of you for your wisdom
And courage!
Wow, this is really good. It’s actually much easier to let Jesus Christ into my heart and take up the center of my life when our Lord’s good news is borne with such dignity and grace. Bishop, I love you and I’m so grateful I found your voice on here.
excellent format and filming.. hope to see more of these, with you speaking with those in related disciplines with the Church. thank you for this Bishop Barron.
The blessed Bishop did a superb job at charitably revealing the contradiction of presupposing purpose, goals, mathematical truths and moral value in an emergent mechanical universe.
I was listening out for this POV and I didn’t perceive it. Rather, from his body language I feel as though he restrained himself immensely, it was quite funny to behold. He wisely made the correct decision ☺
Fascinating conversation! Thanks!
Thank you so much for this conversation with Heather and Bret!
Love this. Genesis has two creation stories - it’s point wasn’t to tell you scientifically how you were made, but rather to illustrate no matter how God did it, you are special in creation. Him molding man from the elements of this earth in Genesis 2 sounds like Darwin to me. Evolution is quite welcome in our cozy Christian corner 😎☕️
No it isn't. Its a theory that denies God. Also is completely false.
@@duartem3586 Give me a break.
@@duartem3586 ah ah ah…it’s all ‘emergent’ . Science is never settled ☺
Evolution is great 👍 I love studying the bones of ancient apes 🦍
@@duartem3586 No, it doesn’t deny God and is not false. When you get stuck at that false dichotomy, you are doing exactly what this interview speaks to as a barrier to further conversation.
The most open minded and unbiased, and in a sense “un-dogmatic” person in this conversation was the bishop
I really enjoyed this discourse. I’ve listened to a great many of Bishop Barron’s presentations on the “intelligibility of the universe” and stayed with you, Bishop, as you asked your questions. (I felt I knew where you were going with it) What I was happy to hear were the responses of your guests. I heard/learned another way of thinking. Did it change my mind? Not at all but I was grateful for the exposure.(WOF offers many such opportunities/ presentations) I’m not ok with saying I don’t need to go down that route when an intuitive thought peaks my imagination. Thanks to WOF, I’ve learned how to think, question and dialogue on many topics. The variety of WOF fellows/speakers presented have opened my mind in an otherwise hectic world full of distractions, many disordered, that want to pull us away from spirituality and our right praise of God. Thanks for this presentation. Your guest speakers were outstanding, as,of course, you were Bishop Barron.
Yes, when a scientists confronts questions that science cannot answer because they are metaphysical questions, they should think about those questions and read what others, especially philosophers and theologians have written because they are humans first, scientists second.
Thank you bishop! I will run to the bookshop and look for their book!
The study of science (physics, biology, astronomy) has deepened my faith. It does not provide a definitive proof of God, but it is one influence that has deepened my belief. Dr. Francis Collins wrote a book titled “The Language of God” that provides an excellent reconciliation of science and faith. Rather than illuminating a God of the gaps in our knowledge, he shows a God of Aquinas’s understanding as being itself. Great discussion.
Ironically, that book is pretty obsolete and Collins has taken much heat for it. ENCODE 2012 pretty much killed neo-Darwinism. Read Genetic Entropy, Signature in the Cell, Foresight, and others. Darwinian theory is done.
@@dave1370 Collins’ book is a bit dated. I have heard him in more recent discussions respond to some of the criticisms, and discuss the accepted science to date and enduring truths that he attempts to illuminate in the book. I know that during the pandemic he was widely criticized for his leadership of NIH (in some instances rightly so). Einstein said that the most incomprehensible thing about the universe is just how comprehensible it is. Collins’ points to some of the lasting constants and equations that bring about that comprehension. For me, some of the book and the direction of his argument was as much philosophy/theology as it was science. Thanks so much for the additional sources. I sincerely appreciate you taking the time to pass them on. Have a blessed day.
okay this is epic
I laughed when she told the Bishop that “It’s not interesting to us..” (42:43 ish) He chuckled and then “took the reins.” Bishop Barron is the best.
Intelligent conversation, excellent.
Holy crap! I am so surprised to see Bret and Heather with the Bishop! Quite happy though!
I absolutely love Heather and Bret! I'm so glad you had them on.This was such a good conversation, very helpful.
Love this discussion
I hope Bret and Heather appreciate how lucky they are to be across the table from a legend.
I’ve always seen science simply as man’s interpretation of life, things, all phenomenon; reality
I am finding this discussion very interesting while typing up NUMBERS 36 in the Bible on the Day 86 of The Bible in 1 Year in Chronological Order and I would like to hear more like this while I have a long way to still type until I reach Day 365!
I love that Bishop Barron is having these conversations
Agreed ! Very important.
"The universe seems neither benign nor hostile, merely indifferent to the concerns of such puny creatures as we are.“ - Carl Sagan.
Really interesting conversation with Bret and Heather. Brett, when I've had some close calls I don't consider it dumb luck that got me thru. I believe I was protected by God, probably with an angel's or angels' help during spiritual warfare. Live another day to do my God-given mission. B & H had a lot of insight on porn and proper sexuality with one's life partner. And H is right: amidst uncaring nature (Hound of Heaven poem addresses this), we have each other to protect one another.
Jean Lanz
Same here, not always Major life changing things. Sometimes its that little quiet voice saying "I would do that if I were you."
Fire
Wow, he really pushed them to the obsurd limits of their faith in the mechanical "emergent " nature of the universe. You can visibly see them getting more and more anxious as Barron subtly keeps pressing. Then he politly changes the subject back to their book.
That was beautifully done by Bishop Barron.
Edit:
51:02
This is where their belief (or faith) breaks down, and starts contradicting itself.
They are saying that morality evolved as an aid to create successful societies that help members get their genes into the future. No contradiction.
@@yidiandianpang no their not "saying" their assuming. They have no explanation for it and Barron is simply pointing that out
@@ethanb2554 Why do you think what they say is not an explanation?
Great crossover
Three true American intellectuals… and individuals of social action….. a rare combination…. all three you would want to be in the foxhole with…. if all hell breaks loose!! 🇺🇸♥️✝️
“All hell broke loose.” - Bishop Barron exactly!!!!
An immense pleasure to discover Heather Heying and Bret Weinstein Bishop Barron's company and enjoying every word said in this thoughtful conversation. Many thanks for this open view.
My two favorite questions by the bishop were, Why something rather than nothing?, and What explains the powerful drive to continue living (--and perhaps he could equally well have asked about the experience of love). I was disappointed that the scientists did not directly handle the first question; and I wish the bishop had pressed them further on the second. The scientists could have quickly admitted they have no idea why there's something instead of nothing--or, pointed to some interesting current arguments that have come to light, about which I would know nothing. As for the second question, I can see how the scientists can answer all questions regarding our internal lives with an evolutionary explanation; but there is again a line between the evolutionary process that explains our experiences mechanistically, and the guessed-at metaphysical cause through which the "possibility" of these things can seem to "pre-exist. " This is really a question, and not the beginning of a speech. I am sure that the bishop and the scientists are better able to discuss this point than me. I wish they had.
please use more specific terms. They are evolutionary biologists. Calling them 'scientists' is not helpful. You aren't calling the bishop 'the catholic'. I would think the will/drive to live is far better answered by a neuroscientist. 'something rather than nothing': pretty existential. I don't know how any field scientist would have more to offer than more questions.
@@angelinejohnson9511 I disagree that evolutionary biologists would not have a natural interest in the origin of pretty much any of the impulses that arise in all of us humans. And indeed, they gave their answer. I'm just saying that the catholic could have pressed the question about one level deeper, and I wish that he had. These questions are hardly esoteric, and the evolutionary scientists were perfectly capable of speculating with the catholic on this, but the conversation happened to continue on to other things, as conversations do. These guys are all three much better educated, widely read, and "expert adjacent" (if you will) than me, and these two questions were perfectly run of the mill--but I've never heard them deeply discussed between two evolutionary scientists and a theologian. And I still haven't. :)
@@angelinejohnson9511 I didn't expect the evolutionary scientists to have a special corner on the "pretty existential" question (indeed!) of something from nothing, and I didn't imagine that the catholic was asking the question to them so much as to evolutionary scientists, but more so as to people who are deeply fluent in a discipline of science and who have almost certainly entertained the question, in a speculative manner, not just within themselves, but also in close proximity to any number of mathematicians or physicists who like to speculate on the question. (I assume these two run in more interesting circles than I do, at least on this kind of thing.) I would have enjoyed hearing a much rounder account of their thoughts on the subject. Just saying.
One good thing that came out of the Evergreen experience is that we can experience conversations like this one with Bret and Heather on You Tube. Evergreen's loss in a gain for the rest of us.
Bret continues to frustrate me. In this conversation and the one with Pageau, he continues to use science. But when they push him on the presumptions on science, he either uses more science (which can’t account for its own presumptions) or he says that faith is a presumption with no evidence. It’s widely irritating then when asked about why something is good he just tells me how it is good. John Vervaeke is right. He have created a scientific worldview in which we are absent from it. We have no home in science.
Also, there isn’t only emergence, there is also emanation.
So why not press for reconciling them rather than sticking to a conflictual framework?
@@christopherhamilton3621 I think there is both emanation and emergence (Neoplatonism). So I think Bret is the one negating here. For me, science is just a tool. There is no scientific worldview. People who talk of a scientific worldview are really just absenting themselves from the world.
@@mariog1490 I am a big JV fan: what is the source of that scientific worldview reference please? I need to understand it & the context to be on the same page. Thanks.
@@christopherhamilton3621 sorry, I watch a lot of his videos. I don’t have an exact reference for you. But he says it all the time. I think he might’ve talked about it in the 4 horsemen podcast (obliquely) and his first conversation with Jonathan Pageau. I’m not sure though.
@@mariog1490 OK, thanks. I’ll try & find it myself then.
Can anyone tell me why youtube doesn't show the publish date for videos? I really like understanding when in time these conversations occur. many thanks
As crazy as things are in the world, its the plethora of podcasts/channels like this where a diversity of people and ideas are exchanged in good faith. There is a beautiful cross-pollination going on and it gives me great hope
"Keepers of the flame" is the most cringe shit I've ever heard Bret say, and that's saying something.
I love this so much. Now, get Bret's brother, Eric, on. Mathematician and economist up to bat lol.
I still think these modern podcasts prove that people always would have and could have listened to and followed complicated, deep, long form discussions in the public sphere, but our overlords always said we were too stupid and could only pay attention for five minutes. I love seeing this stuff emerge
I'm a itty-bitty "baby Catholic" having just completed RCIA and the Sacraments of Initiation earlier this month and I am often elated as I get further acquainted with my newfound faith and the Church... but... I also love and carry with me 15 years of getting to know the Gaia Hypothesis/Theory, a singular planet life or "Earthlife" paradigm considered by some astro-, molecular- and evolutionary biologists. This past year I have been blown away by discovering (what I believe to be) attributes of Gaia Theory in Catholicism and I credit both Bishop Barron and the priest at my local parish, Fr. Todd Strange, for sending out a message of science-oriented acceptance that encourages me to feel comfortable and confident in pursuing knowledge about two seemingly detached and disjointed perspectives on life, the universe and God.
Welcome Home sister
Hi Sarah. I just want to inform you that there is only Father God. There is no Mother Earth. You are mashing together to religions to make a religion for yourself; this is called syncretism. If you see any similarity in Gaia Theory and Catholicism, I would question that; it could be a strong deception from the Enemy. I'm surprised you made it through a year of RCIA and you are still worshipping the goddess. (I'm being sarcastic here: I'm sure Almighty God is thrilled that you made a little room for Him.)
@@janetgrupe9870 The Gaia Theory, or any scientific theory for that matter, is a conceptual structure used in research of natural and observable phenomena thus I'm surprised that you would equate it to goddess worship and religion. It's not disagreeable to find science in faith. When I recite the Nicene Creed and say that God is the maker of heaven and earth I am affirming that God is also ultimately responsible for what we find in the study of biospheric science too... in fact we were told by our priest not to shy away from it because he believes the study of sciences eventually leads back to God. I think Bishop Barron is trying to send out the same message too.
@@sarahgames7617 I am familiar with the scientific method. I guess the word 'Gaia' carries certain connotations. After working in academia a dozen years, I haven't heard that phrase used. I wouldn't even call it pseudo-science. It's considered ancient mythology. Here are some quick Google definitions: One of the Greek primordial deities. the personification of the Earth, as "Mother Earth", she was the second element in the evolution of the cosmos after Chaos- the primordial void, one of her first offspring was Ouranos, the sky god, who became her lover and later abuser. she encouraged her son Kronos to castrate Ouranos and throw his genitals across the sea. It's more than 2,000 years since she was first worshipped. Today, this false god is back largely thanks to the scientist and environmentalist James Lovelock, whose Gaia hypothesis describes how all living organism form part of an interconnected, self-regulating ecosystem.
"For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear." 2 Timothy 4:3 Please forgive the annoying capital letters: TO BE SAVED WE NEED JESUS PLUS NOTHING ELSE
@@janetgrupe9870 I'm not fond of the word "Gaia" and its inclusion to describe this particular paradigm. Maybe in the future, through research and discovery, a better fitting word or description will eventually be found. Something that doesn't trigger people into calling it "goddess worship" when there is no basis for it what so ever. But regardless of that, I will continue to enjoy learning about a subject that I find fascinating a little understood and if I encounter difficult moments where it challenges my faith in God I have no doubt that I will receive kindness and compassion through prayer and a couple conversations with my priest and other trustworthy folks at church. Thank you for your concern.
Brett, yes, hummingbirds are remarkable (and beautiful). Agree. In my view, it's logical to see the beauty and elegance of the hummingbird as evidence of a Creator and Designer. Natural selection and random mutations seem to be inadequate mechanisms to bring about beauty, elegance, coordinated systems engineeering (digestive system, cardio-pulmonary system, reproductive system, etc.) in creatures. Also, where are all the transitional and failed designs? Mutations can cause genetic diseases (like cancer). Evolution seems contrary to the scientific principle of entropy.
Thank you for your service. Amazing guests, they are amazing. Keep fighting the good fight Bishop Barron.
I may be the only viewer with an opposing view, but I found Profs. Weinstein & Heying used a lot of words to say very little. Bishop Barron’s conversations with his guests are usually thought provoking, but this one left me scratching my head. Just because they used Chesterton’s fence as an analogy in their book does not mean they lend credence to the Christian faith. After all, Chesterton’s God is not a useful mean to some end.
oh I used to LOVE walking past the museum in Ann Arbor en route to/from classes, and reading that quote: Go and see for yourself. It was so inspiring: what I need, what all of us trying to do science need -- and what anyone else trying to forward human knowledge needs. My thanks for this conversation.
Hello Angeline how are you doing over there?
Bishop Barron is an evangelist to the core.
Thank you and look forward to listening in on these fascinating and very instructive conversations on critical issues.
Very excited for this conversation. I love listening to all of you!!
As cardinal Martini said "the problem is not between believers and not believers. Is about thinkers and not thinkers".
And by the way, getting vaccinated is not an "act of love".
Is an act of obedience.