One of the greatest books I have read on the Beatles. I found the parts of the book that dealt with George Harrison’s situation with HandMade films and his financial woes due to a conniving manager particularly interesting. It is clear from this book that George eventually capitulated and participated in the Anthology because of financial reasons. Another part of the book that was interesting was just how many exhausting legal battles all the Beatles (but particularly Lennon) were mired in. It is amazing they were actually able to produce music considering how consumed they all were with lawyers.
You and Antony make a great team. I’ve loved every video you have had him on, and also enjoyed his podcast that you had a guest spot on. I like how the conversation always has some organic “asides” that are very interesting.
Thanks for your kind words. Matt's the greatest, that's why it works, a breath of fresh air in Beatleland. Also, we have similar worldviews (that we discuss off-mic) so I guess some chemistry comes from that.
@@glassoniononjohnlennon6696 Thanks, Antony. I also appreciate the work you do. You deliver an informative and entertaining podcast. And yes, the chemistry you have with Matt comes through, which makes for an engaging discussion.
* There's always a possibility that Yoko hold her self back during the Get Back sessions, knowing that everything was recorded. * Many people have said, that what Yoko wants, she gets. * I saw a video recently, a sitcom from the 80s where May Pang was a guest. She said, that "everyone in the house" where afraid of Yoko. * That famous photo by Annie Leibowitz with a naked John beside Yoko, John said it showed their relation perfectly. * It took Julian many years (16) to get his his rightful inheritance after his father. But he didn't get any of John's favourite guitars. * John had bought houses for some of his relatives. When he died Yoko took them back. Etc ... There is so many examples of Yoko not being a pleasant person. But I think one also have to understand, that Yoko was a creative artist, 7-10 years older than the Beatles, with some stage experience, having her sit on a chair besides a creative group, without anything to do or any creative space, of course she's not gonna make it. Sooner or later she must let herself come out. Out from that silly prison on that damned silent chair.
This is one of the most important books about The Beatle NOT as much just being about the breakup, but in that it remains the best book on the relationship of The Beatles to each other AFTER the breakup. The Beatles were an amazing fusion of people and the story of how they related about the breakup is moving, heartbreaking at times, and really essential reading. The Beatles took us on an amazing journey, and where they ended up on that journey is almost as important to understand as the journey of them together. I'm hoping that one day we will get a Mark Lewisolm size and style book that will really explore this in even more detail. The new McCartney legacy shows one side of this four way story and I'd love to read the whole story in more details sometime.
@@popgoesthe60s52 really do you remember where he said that? I think that's a great idea, but I'd rather have a book that was more about their relationship up to the present day, it couldn't have the details of their lives of course. You Never Give Me Your Money is the closest we have. The Beatles is an epic story that deserves an Epic Epilogue
Great discussion on a terrific book. I purchased this back in 2010 and must have read it through at least 3 or 4 times. Love that it is fairly even handed as opposed to the books from the 1980s. Love the back and forth between the two of you. Looking forward to part 2. Thanks very much!
There was an article on the breakup in Rolling Stone magazine . This article made the compelling case that John did in the Beatles. In a nutshell, John was an insecure personality. He was easily encouraged to dismiss the Beatles by Yoko, and John was insecure with his position in the band, in light of Paul's never-ending creativity.
I haven't read this one but I did read "Apple to the Core" which also was about their financial dealings, song rights, contracts, percentages, etc. Robert Fripp has written a lot on artist rights, how it's typical for a band to get money upfront from a record company but it has to be paid back. And even when they pay for the studio time often they didn't end up owning their own recordings, never mind the song rights. It's been written that Paul was just as upset has George H. about Yoko's presence but being a people please and not wanting John to leave the group he wouldn't speak the truth to John. This aggravated George even more because Paul was being two-faced in his mind. He took some digs at Paul in the "Anthology" book too, how he wasn't above hinting at a Beatles reunion in the '70s just to promote one of his albums. That was Paul being Paul.
Happy New Year Matt. A couple of early examples of musician turn business man are Dave Clark and Animal keyboardist Alan Price. Who shrewdly maneuvered all the royalties of House Of The Rising Sun to go to him alone. Looking forward to Part 2. Cheers, RNB
well I have read two stories to that story about Alan as for Dave he is a great business man but for those who knew him and worked for him he was not really a good person
You can see why Paul would hate Yoko..she was coming between him and his best friend and writing partner. George, I think, saw through her. Here she is, supposedly bedridden, yet he sees her get up from the bed and saunter over to his digestive biscuits to help herself to them. Ringo would have had the least problem with her, since he wasn't a major songwriter in the group, so her presence would have affected him the least.
47:20 Exactly! In Anthology 3 Ringo mentions what he liked about Klein was when he went anywhere Klein would arrange him to be met at the airport with some pocket money and a chauffeur driven car. Pathetic...while Klein had his eye on the real deal.
I remain frustrated McCartney wasn't more open to expanding the definition of the band. I believe that was as much a momentum breaker as Klein and Ono's influences... Such a compelling topic... appreciate the chat Matt and Antony!
Hey Matt, glad to see another video to start the year. I kind of snickered about about your use of the word “jabroni”. I don’t think I’ve ever heard of the word used outside of pro wrestling. Over the years I’ve started to dislike John Lennon more and more. He was abusive to both his wives. He treated his oldest son like crap. He abandoned his family. Both of them. He was a drug addict and promoted ideals that have been proven more harmful than good. I’ve never understood why the media has turned such a flawed person into a deity. Although very talented, the guy had so many flaws and I don’t think alone could have had the success of the Beatles. I don’t even think he could have had a career like Bob Dylan, David Bowie or Michael Jackson in influence or record sales. The Beatles were a perfect combination of four individuals who were exceptional in their individual roles in the band. When each got unfocused in their role, the Beatles imploded. None could reproduce the success of the Beatles as solo artists. It’s sad really.
Some people insist one focusing on one individual in a group. It's like a one-sided love affair that they must be loyal too in spite of all the negative aspects of the personality they are in love with.
Matt, you may have mentioned this before it seems as though George became so cranky or however you want to call it because he was now one less on the pecking order due to Yoko's presence. After being the third man for so long it must have been pretty tough to face the fact that he was now one spot further down. Additionally, he did seem closer to John than he was with the other two and Yoko's presence disconnected their brotherhood. I mentioned this on Antony's channel but I wonder if any papers will surface that explain Yoko's control over John in more detail. I would like to understand the occult aspect a little more about her understanding of astrology and how she would use that to dissuade John from doing things she deemed went against her interest. Great video you and Antony make a potent pairing. Can't wait for part two. Take good care.
The whole Ono-occult angle is a hard one to pin down, but it was apart of her lifestyle and Lennon fell under some of her control due to it. For example, not going out on certain days, etc. Antony and I might tackle this topic in the future.
This is a fantastic book and far more revealing about the relationship of The Beatles than most . a fascinating read from start to finish . A great interview Matt , and wishing you a Very Happy New Year and thank you for all the brilliant videos and interviews throughout the year.
Get Back doesn't show Yoko doing anything disruptive, it does show them talking about her behaivor at business meetings during this time. I'm unclear really if she ever did anything "wrong" but it's clear her presence was a source of tension. The "worst" behaivor I know of captured on tape was when she was screaming "john john" after George left, but the Get Back movie shows that this was actually a way they all let off steam and wasn't actually a problem at all and was actually kinda cool. Reading McCartney legacy and this book it's clear that business issues revolving around Klein were the primary reason for the breakup and the continuing tension, though there still is the question of "would John have followed through with his plan to join Paul during Venus and Mars if he hadn't gotten back together with Yoko at the time".
The Paul telling of the break up is very anti-Klein, so McCartney's bias must be taken into account. There was plenty of tension after Klein as well which McCartney really can't blame Klein for.
27:00 I wrote a bit about how ear-splitting screaming during Beatlemania was often being likened in 1963 to jet aircraft engines, drowning out Beatles performances, drowning the latest amps - - and Lennon-McCartney's pleas over the microphone to stop screaming because they can't hear the music fell on deaf ears because the mostly female audience was not interested in hearing the music. Then they quit performing altogether and retreated to the studio and blamed the screaming. Then Lennon imports a female presence that infiltrates the studio and single-handedly duplicates all those ear-splitting screams (and sits on PM's amp). By the way, before PM said the Get Back line about the ridiculous irony of breaking up cos YO sat on an amp was said AFTER PM had already said, around WHite Album period, that PM objected to YO sitting on his amp, literally, because she was oblivious to boundaries or dynamics.
Wheeling a bed in for Yoko with a microphone set up? Comedy skit material that would be hilarious if it weren't so detrimental to the future of the band. The Rutles barely scraped the surface of utilizing a wealth of actual events instead of the need to create a parody. Even back then, I think there was an apprehension of being too harsh and therefore politically incorrect for attacking the wife of a band member. But we have to remember that John allowed it to happen. The blame lies more with him than with Yoko.
Given that the Rutles' Yoko stand-in is a literal nazi (uniform and all) implied to be the daughter of Adolf Hitler, I don't think there was concern then about being "politically incorrect".
As I have already commented I think both Ono and Lennon knew exactly what they were doing and were hell bent on pushing it as far as possible. Lennon had demonstrated his destructive behaviour years before and was just too unstable to deal with his feelings . How could he not realise the impact of having this total stranger ( to the rest of them ) come into their family circle and meddle in the ways they created their art .
I remain to be convinced that Yoko didn't see John as her main chance. She was clever enough to convince John but not the others. I wish I'd like to see it differently but, no matter what I read, my opinion doesn't change.
Yes my opinion of Ono has never changed. IMO she was wilful, mendacious and scheming. She deliberately and knowingly knew what she was doing when joining the band in recording etc. Why did she think she had a right to be there ? She was not in the band . No other wives etc were present .
Hiring friends as employees was of course something the Beatles had in common with Elvis. The crucial difference was that Neil and Mal were around before the Beatles became huge. Elvis met his "friends", the Memphis Mafia, when he was in the army and was already the biggest star in the world. In both cases, however, the friendships were far from balanced. As you say, Mal remained a gofer and Neil helped with their management via NEMs, etc. John's best friend, Pete Shotton, was never employed by the Beatles, I believe, so a more natural relationship was maintained. * Correcting myself somewhat, while Neil was a friend and confidante, it's debatable whether Mal Evans could really be categorised as a friend. More a trusted hired hand, really.
In this discussion it is mentioned Kline wanted to manage the Beatles in 1964. Can you imagine if this did happen and the Beatles were no longer with EMI, that would mean no more George Martin?? ... The true 5th Beatle IMO
Great job with Antony on the book Matt. Excellent start for 2023, except for now I have to by the book, and I noticed your lava lamp, which I've been meaning to buy. I forgot to ask Santa for it! Happy New Year to Pop Goes the 60s.
One thing that is difficult to appreciate is how quickly everything happened around the Beatles. Looking at just the White Album/ Let It Be / Abbey Road timeline it’s no wonder they struggled and burned out with all the other pressures on top.
I feel like Mark Lewisohn's comparison between Yoko Ono and Stuart Sutcliffe is spot on. John made a conscious decision each time to bring in this artistic mind into the inner circle and elevate them to #2 in the group (at least in John's mind). There are certainly parallels between Paul's reaction to each and I think George resented being #3 for so long and being passed over by Yoko
Read this one years ago, pretty dang good read on the business side of the Beatles. Not real impressive on the musical side but that is always up to the one who likes or dislikes the music.
I think Doggett's book is very balanced, and discusses an aspect of the Beatles rarely touched on (their relationships with each other after their break up). A couple of questions I have is if Neil Aspinall was ever asked by the Beatles to become their Manager, following Brian's death? Another thing I wander about is if following their break up, if an interviewer ever asked them if they would join another music group (rather then starting their own back up group/Wings)? Some artists do have a business background, and have been successful. One example is Mick Jagger, who did study business/economics in school. The Beach Boys Brother Records was set up in early 1967, about a year before Apple Records was set up. Unlike Apple, Brother was mainly for the Beach Boys, although Brian Wilson did work initially with Redwood/soon to be Three Dog Night, and Carl Wilson worked with The Flame.
@@popgoesthe60s52 Matt, Have you thought of doing a video talking about how the Music World (other Rock bands and artists, as well as music magazines) reacted or thought of the Beatles break up?
I very much enjoyed this discussion -- I look forward to Part 2! re: Klein -- Given Klein's childhood history of "unwantedness" and being placed in an orphanage, one can see how it mirrored Lennon's. Klein obviously had a chip on his shoulder and had a lot to prove (just like Lennon). His background was much more firmly "working class" than Lennon's, though. I think Klein made his real reputation with his auditing skills. As you stated, many of the artists were young, naive, and willing to accept the record companies' accounting -- Klein had a knack for being able to review hundreds of pages of documents and pinpoint exactly where the record companies were shady with the accounting and what they owed the artists. To avoid breach of contract lawsuits and publicity, the record companies usually paid up. And, ironically, one of Klein's first major "wins" against a record company was when he took on Morris Levy at Roulette in the early '60s! In addition, one of the best characteristics of Doggett's book is that he skips all broad strokes and tropes -- Nobody in his book is perfect. Everyone comes off as human.
Thank you, Mike. Check out Joe Wisbey's comment re: the tropes in this book below! It seems that some fan want to treat some band members at more than human!
Always enjoy the Antony colabs, great review! So its a year later...how does this narrative stand up to Jackson's Get Back in your opinion? Considering there was actual involvement on the part of the artists / estates w/Get Back, does it make it any more relevant than past works?
I think the key word there is 'narrative' but one thing it did seem to highlight is the huge difference between the Twickenham and Apple portions of the sessions in terms of goodwill. I think I remember saying before it came out that I was more enthused by the footage rather than any clarifications of 'truth'. I'm a little Beatles information-fatigued in general though, to be honest. Almost everything is little more than speculation at this point really, but that's the fun of it, right? An elusive puzzle that we'll never quite complete. Glad you enjoyed the talks anyway
It took them less than 6 months to screw everything up. Apple doesn't start to roll until May of 1968 and they are already looking for saviors in November/December of 1968. It is during this time period they seek interviews with two large British personalities (Beechwood and at least one other person- whom they reject), while Paul recruits John Eastman in the same time period. I think their siding with Klein makes a bit more sense in this context. They have rejected previous ideas of new management, then Paul proposes the Eastmans, which is unacceptable to the other three for obvious reasons, and then Klein presents himself and he looks very good in comparison to the other choices looked at and offered. Keep in mind Klein had worked with a ton of people that they knew. He didn't come out of the blue. Besides the Stones , he had done very good deals for/with Donovan, Pete Townshend, the Kinks, the Animals and Herman's Hermits. So, despite his reputation, I think they knew far more about him than is let on.
Regarding the 'old John/new John' thing, I'm really looking forward to the new May Pang documentary. Was that a 3rd John, or a reversion to the old one? Seems like John missed the old John too, at that point.
I still have to see that doc. When John was with May, he was the old John because that's when he reconnected with his son and friends like Jagger and Nilsson.
oh yes the drugs would have made any fears really worse and as for her being at the studio one reason why they may have not wanted to be apart, I heard they almost died, or was really injured so may be he was a afraid of being away from her
Hey Matt, interesting discussion. I also noticed your Chipmunks Christmas album behind you. My copy’s been in the family for decades. Where’d you get yours?
Although simplistic IMO Ono and Lennon together broke up the Beatles. The former was mendacious, devious and knew full well what she was doing. The latter as he was a damaged individual and wilfully destroyed the band camaraderie ie no wives or girlfriends, by deliberately insisting Ono should accompany him every where. From my reading Lennon had the chance to rein things in but didn’t.
Thank you for another enjoyable video. Was that a reference to a McCartney / Ono pre-John dalliance I almost heard? Learned a new word today: jabroni - a foolish or contemptible person.
Great and interesting videos quite excellent debate I still put the Beatles is down to John , yes the other issues Mr K v the double E s yes that didn’t help but still it came down to John , I think George n ringo should brought forward there suggestions to manage the group may think George just followed John to upset Paul possible I guess it could have been done better but for me john always blamed people negative approach to yoko sent into harder drug use
There’s a Lennon quote that appears on the Anthology series where he says in relation to the aftermath of Epstein’s passing that, “I had no illusions about our ability to do anything other than create music,” (or words to that effect), which makes the Apple project something of a mystery as to why they did it if that’s what he genuinely thought at that time. I suspect a certain amount of hindsight applies here though.
The ultimate book on why the beatles broke up and why they STAYED broke up. Alan Klien and Dec 31 1970. It's so,,,,, heartbreaking almost. It was going to end but it should never have ended that way. Wasn't Zappa in sort of contractual Bondage until the 80s? I guess he played it as carefully as he could relying on record companies and studio costs. Zappa said his drug was cigs and coffee plus he only ate stuff that was fried. Your lava lamp has gone limp it seems.
Regarding Yoko, first off there is NO WAY SHE WOULD HAVE BEEN ATTENDING SESSIONS UNLESS LENNON INSISTED UPON IT. Of course the mere fact of ANYONE sitting in the midst of a working Rock band would change the atmosphere. If a dog is in a studio it can change the atmosphere! YOKO was ambitious but also very Japanese and polite as the culture is. She was also a known artist which was a big part of the Lennon attraction to her. I don’t blame her at all and the breakup was inevitable but of course she was a factor. Any new woman stuck in the middle of that situation would cause chaos.
I totally disagree and in my opinion she knew exactly what she was doing and for a supposedly bright intelligent woman why did she think it appropriate to join in with the band ? She wasn’t in the band as the other wives were not part of the band. I think the other 3 band members were incredibly tolerant to put up with this hanger on . I guess for John’s sake they persevered with her antics . Her destructive behaviour will always be remembered .
I've always tried to like Yoko. And part of me has respected her a lot since John's death. But let's just get something straight - ok, maybe it's true that most wives try to keep their husbands from their buddies, but that's still messed up. Talk about being selfish/childish; grow up ladies! Trying to control one's husband's (or wive's for that matter) life like that is not cool, full stop. Plus, have a listen to May Pang's documentary; Yoko was also actively working to keep John from his flesh and blood child, Julian. That's pretty shitty in my book. No excuses for Ms. Ono. Sorry, I'm much more inclined to respect a person like May Pang.
Good points about Julian. I don't see how people can give Ono a pass on this. She actively kept him from receiving calls and correspondence from his family in England.
I, too, received it as a gift a couple of years ago. I read the first two pages and could go no further. Patterson seemed to be having too much fun imagining himself in the mind of the murderer, as if the story was just another thrilling true crime yarn. It felt cheap--an insult to Lennon and those who care about him and his music.
It may be a mistake to think Brian Epstein would have been the savior had he lived. The literature and video suggest something else. George Martin said the loss of Brian was huge but as he said, "there was no guarantee they would have listened to him anyway" had he lived. Paul McCartney's relationship with Brian was always a bit tenuous as documented and might have evolved into a full battle for control. Lennon/Ono would have likely moved on or found reasons to. The battle for control was always on the surface or just below. When Lennon stood up and claimed he was the "leader" at a press conference when a reporter asked who the leader was, the disdain on McCartney's face was clearly evident.
Well, McCartney admitted that John was the leader and says it to John directly in the Get Back sessions. Paul goes so far to say that he is uncomfortable as "the leader" in the same conversation. John is the leader when it suits him, is my opinion and that is called "leading from behind."
@@Joewizzard260 Hi Joe. I’m disappointed that you appear to have removed your earlier comments to our discussion on Doggett’s book. If you approach my channel the same way you did the Doggett book, by taking two quotes and deciding, “I can’t take the book seriously,” then you are simply not open to alternative perspectives. It’s hard to take you seriously when you use my comment section to post links advertising your podcast appearances, but then run when you are asked a legitimate question by me. I’m happy to have a dialog with you Joe, but pointing me to a podcast that you suggest “may open my eyes” is a condescending way to have dialog. I wouldn’t imply you need to view anything from a different perspective. That would be patronizing.
Matt, Let me throw a discordant note on this episode. The more that I hear Rotundo, the less I care for him. He has some interesting thoughts, but I find that I would prefer to hear you alone reviewung the book. And while I am in my critical mode, may I say that I really disliked Plastic EP and abandoned that episode after ten painful minutes. I did listen to all of this show, however, as I have liked Doggett's magazine articles and the book is in my (virtual) stack of books.
I was a bit bored by Rotundo, part one, but parts two and three were much more interesting. It's strictly a personal quirk I suppose, but Rotundo's voice and manner wear on me. And going back to sixties films, I started watching "Ipcress File" on TCM last night, but it was not the full screen version and thus a bit disappointing. The director approached the movie like an art film with odd angles, shots through keyholes, cymbals, and behinf car windows. he also used the full screen in conversations, placing the camera behind one conversant's shoulder while placing the other person off center as a result. The director was avant garde for the time, though many of his ideas were adopted by others and no longer are quite as astonishing as they were in '65. See the wide screen version if you can. It's still one of my favorite movies, though my taste is only MY taste.@@popgoesthe60s52
Georege REALLY came across as cranky in the Get Back film. He was passive aggressive just like you said, Matt. He woud have kinda ticked me off being a burr in my side.
I'm really surprised that these two seem to be trying to rehabilitate Yoko's image. What gives guys...did she donate to your channel? My god, all you have to do is look at the way she interfered with John post Beatles, like imposing herself into the Double Fantasy album and the screaming during live performance etc.
What gives, jesse1d? You obviously don't know my channel very well. Check out the 10 Reasons The Beatles Broke Up and Ono gets her own fucking place among the10 reasons! There are other Ono topics you'll probably find quite critical as well (see: all the Get Back videos). Like many Beatles fans, they don't always recognize balance when they hear it - especially when they don't bother to wait for the second part of this video! In addition, the Double Fantasy album is beyond the scope of the topic of this book.
One of the greatest books I have read on the Beatles. I found the parts of the book that dealt with George Harrison’s situation with HandMade films and his financial woes due to a conniving manager particularly interesting. It is clear from this book that George eventually capitulated and participated in the Anthology because of financial reasons. Another part of the book that was interesting was just how many exhausting legal battles all the Beatles (but particularly Lennon) were mired in. It is amazing they were actually able to produce music considering how consumed they all were with lawyers.
I could listen to you guys forever. Brilliant
You and Antony make a great team. I’ve loved every video you have had him on, and also enjoyed his podcast that you had a guest spot on. I like how the conversation always has some organic “asides” that are very interesting.
Thanks for your kind words. Matt's the greatest, that's why it works, a breath of fresh air in Beatleland. Also, we have similar worldviews (that we discuss off-mic) so I guess some chemistry comes from that.
@@glassoniononjohnlennon6696 Thanks, Antony. I also appreciate the work you do. You deliver an informative and entertaining podcast. And yes, the chemistry you have with Matt comes through, which makes for an engaging discussion.
Thank you, David. Antony makes it easy for me! Part two will be up in a day or so.
* There's always a possibility that Yoko hold her self back during the Get Back sessions, knowing that everything was recorded.
* Many people have said, that what Yoko wants, she gets.
* I saw a video recently, a sitcom from the 80s where May Pang was a guest. She said, that "everyone in the house" where afraid of Yoko.
* That famous photo by Annie Leibowitz with a naked John beside Yoko, John said it showed their relation perfectly.
* It took Julian many years (16) to get his his rightful inheritance after his father. But he didn't get any of John's favourite guitars.
* John had bought houses for some of his relatives. When he died Yoko took them back.
Etc ...
There is so many examples of Yoko not being a pleasant person.
But I think one also have to understand, that Yoko was a creative artist, 7-10 years older than the Beatles, with some stage experience, having her sit on a chair besides a creative group, without anything to do or any creative space, of course she's not gonna make it. Sooner or later she must let herself come out. Out from that silly prison on that damned silent chair.
It's not 'YOKO' its being a woman... women are dogmatic and survivors.. its biology
@@charlesbukowski9836 ok, so every woman are exaclty the same and have the same personality? 😀
@@tomasfagerberg6323 not exactly but more or less.... yes the same...
@@charlesbukowski9836 🤣🤣🤣
@@tomasfagerberg6323 😇
This is one of the most important books about The Beatle NOT as much just being about the breakup, but in that it remains the best book on the relationship of The Beatles to each other AFTER the breakup. The Beatles were an amazing fusion of people and the story of how they related about the breakup is moving, heartbreaking at times, and really essential reading. The Beatles took us on an amazing journey, and where they ended up on that journey is almost as important to understand as the journey of them together. I'm hoping that one day we will get a Mark Lewisolm size and style book that will really explore this in even more detail. The new McCartney legacy shows one side of this four way story and I'd love to read the whole story in more details sometime.
Lewisohn has mentioned the possibility of doing a "volume 4" that takes the history through the legal dissolution of the band, roughly 12/31/74.
@@popgoesthe60s52 really do you remember where he said that? I think that's a great idea, but I'd rather have a book that was more about their relationship up to the present day, it couldn't have the details of their lives of course. You Never Give Me Your Money is the closest we have. The Beatles is an epic story that deserves an Epic Epilogue
Great discussion on a terrific book. I purchased this back in 2010 and must have read it through at least 3 or 4 times. Love that it is fairly even handed as opposed to the books from the 1980s. Love the back and forth between the two of you. Looking forward to part 2. Thanks very much!
Thank you, Bill. This is a book I also can read every few years.
There was an article on the breakup in Rolling Stone magazine . This article made the compelling case that John did in the Beatles. In a nutshell, John was an insecure personality. He was easily encouraged to dismiss the Beatles by Yoko, and John was insecure with his position in the band, in light of Paul's never-ending creativity.
I haven't read this one but I did read "Apple to the Core" which also was about their financial dealings, song rights, contracts, percentages, etc. Robert Fripp has written a lot on artist rights, how it's typical for a band to get money upfront from a record company but it has to be paid back. And even when they pay for the studio time often they didn't end up owning their own recordings, never mind the song rights.
It's been written that Paul was just as upset has George H. about Yoko's presence but being a people please and not wanting John to leave the group he wouldn't speak the truth to John. This aggravated George even more because Paul was being two-faced in his mind. He took some digs at Paul in the "Anthology" book too, how he wasn't above hinting at a Beatles reunion in the '70s just to promote one of his albums. That was Paul being Paul.
Happy New Year Matt. A couple of early examples of musician turn business man are Dave Clark and Animal keyboardist Alan Price. Who shrewdly maneuvered all the royalties of House Of The Rising Sun to go to him alone. Looking forward to Part 2. Cheers, RNB
well I have read two stories to that story about Alan as for Dave he is a great business man but for those who knew him and worked for him he was not really a good person
You can see why Paul would hate Yoko..she was coming between him and his best friend and writing partner. George, I think, saw through her. Here she is, supposedly bedridden, yet he sees her get up from the bed and saunter over to his digestive biscuits to help herself to them. Ringo would have had the least problem with her, since he wasn't a major songwriter in the group, so her presence would have affected him the least.
47:20 Exactly! In Anthology 3 Ringo mentions what he liked about Klein was when he went anywhere Klein would arrange him to be met at the airport with some pocket money and a chauffeur driven car. Pathetic...while Klein had his eye on the real deal.
I remain frustrated McCartney wasn't more open to expanding the definition of the band. I believe that was as much a momentum breaker as Klein and Ono's influences...
Such a compelling topic... appreciate the chat Matt and Antony!
Great conversation! Looking forward to Part 2.
A great conversation between you and Antony, Matt! Could have gone on for at least another hour for me!
Hey Nick, the conversation does go for another hour so stay tuned for the next part!
Hey Matt, glad to see another video to start the year. I kind of snickered about about your use of the word “jabroni”. I don’t think I’ve ever heard of the word used outside of pro wrestling. Over the years I’ve started to dislike John Lennon more and more. He was abusive to both his wives. He treated his oldest son like crap. He abandoned his family. Both of them. He was a drug addict and promoted ideals that have been proven more harmful than good. I’ve never understood why the media has turned such a flawed person into a deity. Although very talented, the guy had so many flaws and I don’t think alone could have had the success of the Beatles. I don’t even think he could have had a career like Bob Dylan, David Bowie or Michael Jackson in influence or record sales. The Beatles were a perfect combination of four individuals who were exceptional in their individual roles in the band. When each got unfocused in their role, the Beatles imploded. None could reproduce the success of the Beatles as solo artists. It’s sad really.
Some people insist one focusing on one individual in a group. It's like a one-sided love affair that they must be loyal too in spite of all the negative aspects of the personality they are in love with.
Matt, you may have mentioned this before it seems as though George became so cranky or however you want to call it because he was now one less on the pecking order due to Yoko's presence. After being the third man for so long it must have been pretty tough to face the fact that he was now one spot further down. Additionally, he did seem closer to John than he was with the other two and Yoko's presence disconnected their brotherhood. I mentioned this on Antony's channel but I wonder if any papers will surface that explain Yoko's control over John in more detail. I would like to understand the occult aspect a little more about her understanding of astrology and how she would use that to dissuade John from doing things she deemed went against her interest.
Great video you and Antony make a potent pairing. Can't wait for part two. Take good care.
The whole Ono-occult angle is a hard one to pin down, but it was apart of her lifestyle and Lennon fell under some of her control due to it. For example, not going out on certain days, etc. Antony and I might tackle this topic in the future.
@@popgoesthe60s52 that would be an excellent conversation!
a fascinating talk, many splendid points, thank you
This is a fantastic book and far more revealing about the relationship of The Beatles than most . a fascinating read from start to finish . A great interview Matt , and wishing you a Very Happy New Year and thank you for all the brilliant videos and interviews throughout the year.
Hey Jim, thank you for watching. Part 2 should be up in a couple days.
Get Back doesn't show Yoko doing anything disruptive, it does show them talking about her behaivor at business meetings during this time. I'm unclear really if she ever did anything "wrong" but it's clear her presence was a source of tension. The "worst" behaivor I know of captured on tape was when she was screaming "john john" after George left, but the Get Back movie shows that this was actually a way they all let off steam and wasn't actually a problem at all and was actually kinda cool. Reading McCartney legacy and this book it's clear that business issues revolving around Klein were the primary reason for the breakup and the continuing tension, though there still is the question of "would John have followed through with his plan to join Paul during Venus and Mars if he hadn't gotten back together with Yoko at the time".
The Paul telling of the break up is very anti-Klein, so McCartney's bias must be taken into account. There was plenty of tension after Klein as well which McCartney really can't blame Klein for.
27:00 I wrote a bit about how ear-splitting screaming during Beatlemania was often being likened in 1963 to jet aircraft engines, drowning out Beatles performances, drowning the latest amps - - and Lennon-McCartney's pleas over the microphone to stop screaming because they can't hear the music fell on deaf ears because the mostly female audience was not interested in hearing the music. Then they quit performing altogether and retreated to the studio and blamed the screaming. Then Lennon imports a female presence that infiltrates the studio and single-handedly duplicates all those ear-splitting screams (and sits on PM's amp).
By the way, before PM said the Get Back line about the ridiculous irony of breaking up cos YO sat on an amp was said AFTER PM had already said, around WHite Album period, that PM objected to YO sitting on his amp, literally, because she was oblivious to boundaries or dynamics.
Wheeling a bed in for Yoko with a microphone set up? Comedy skit material that would be hilarious if it weren't so detrimental to the future of the band. The Rutles barely scraped the surface of utilizing a wealth of actual events instead of the need to create a parody. Even back then, I think there was an apprehension of being too harsh and therefore politically incorrect for attacking the wife of a band member. But we have to remember that John allowed it to happen. The blame lies more with him than with Yoko.
Yeah, the Rutles didn't have to go too far to parody the Beatles. Your point is a great example!
Given that the Rutles' Yoko stand-in is a literal nazi (uniform and all) implied to be the daughter of Adolf Hitler, I don't think there was concern then about being "politically incorrect".
As I have already commented I think both Ono and Lennon knew exactly what they were doing and were hell bent on pushing it as far as possible. Lennon had demonstrated his destructive behaviour years before and was just too unstable to deal with his feelings . How could he not realise the impact of having this total stranger ( to the rest of them ) come into their family circle and meddle in the ways they created their art .
I remain to be convinced that Yoko didn't see John as her main chance. She was clever enough to convince John but not the others. I wish I'd like to see it differently but, no matter what I read, my opinion doesn't change.
Yes my opinion of Ono has never changed. IMO she was wilful, mendacious and scheming. She deliberately and knowingly knew what she was doing when joining the band in recording etc.
Why did she think she had a right to be there ? She was not in the band . No other wives etc were present .
Great video for a starter of the Year 2023! Love your comment section here. Some very interesting opinioins always to the Beatles Saga secrets!
Thank you, Mika!
Hiring friends as employees was of course something the Beatles had in common with Elvis. The crucial difference was that Neil and Mal were around before the Beatles became huge. Elvis met his "friends", the Memphis Mafia, when he was in the army and was already the biggest star in the world. In both cases, however, the friendships were far from balanced. As you say, Mal remained a gofer and Neil helped with their management via NEMs, etc. John's best friend, Pete Shotton, was never employed by the Beatles, I believe, so a more natural relationship was maintained.
* Correcting myself somewhat, while Neil was a friend and confidante, it's debatable whether Mal Evans could really be categorised as a friend. More a trusted hired hand, really.
In some ways, I think it’s my favorite Beatles book. I first learned about it through this channel.
In this discussion it is mentioned Kline wanted to manage the Beatles in 1964. Can you imagine if this did happen and the Beatles were no longer with EMI, that would mean no more George Martin?? ... The true 5th Beatle IMO
Great job with Antony on the book Matt. Excellent start for 2023, except for now I have to by the book, and I noticed your lava lamp, which I've been meaning to buy. I forgot to ask Santa for it! Happy New Year to Pop Goes the 60s.
Brilliant discussion!
Listening to the book now... Very entertaining and informative!
One thing that is difficult to appreciate is how quickly everything happened around the Beatles. Looking at just the White Album/ Let It Be / Abbey Road timeline it’s no wonder they struggled and burned out with all the other pressures on top.
Love the outro music 🎶
I read this book. Quite an eye opener as I never realized how bad their finances were when Brian died.
I feel like Mark Lewisohn's comparison between Yoko Ono and Stuart Sutcliffe is spot on. John made a conscious decision each time to bring in this artistic mind into the inner circle and elevate them to #2 in the group (at least in John's mind). There are certainly parallels between Paul's reaction to each and I think George resented being #3 for so long and being passed over by Yoko
Yoko clearly wasn’t self aware and nearly delusional. She held her artistic input as valid as the rest of the Beatles.
Yes you have nailed it on the head !
Read this one years ago, pretty dang good read on the business side of the Beatles. Not real impressive on the musical side but that is always up to the one who likes or dislikes the music.
I think Doggett's book is very balanced, and discusses an aspect of the Beatles rarely touched on (their relationships with each other after their break up). A couple of questions I have is if Neil Aspinall was ever asked by the Beatles to become their Manager, following Brian's death? Another thing I wander about is if following their break up, if an interviewer ever asked them if they would join another music group (rather then starting their own back up group/Wings)? Some artists do have a business background, and have been successful. One example is Mick Jagger, who did study business/economics in school. The Beach Boys Brother Records was set up in early 1967, about a year before Apple Records was set up. Unlike Apple, Brother was mainly for the Beach Boys, although Brian Wilson did work initially with Redwood/soon to be Three Dog Night, and Carl Wilson worked with The Flame.
I don't think Neil was ever considered until way later when he had proven his capabilities and the care he took of them.
@@popgoesthe60s52 Matt, Have you thought of doing a video talking about how the Music World (other Rock bands and artists, as well as music magazines) reacted or thought of the Beatles break up?
This is a excellent video
I would freak out if I heard Yoko sing 😬
I might pick up this book
I very much enjoyed this discussion -- I look forward to Part 2! re: Klein -- Given Klein's childhood history of "unwantedness" and being placed in an orphanage, one can see how it mirrored Lennon's. Klein obviously had a chip on his shoulder and had a lot to prove (just like Lennon). His background was much more firmly "working class" than Lennon's, though. I think Klein made his real reputation with his auditing skills. As you stated, many of the artists were young, naive, and willing to accept the record companies' accounting -- Klein had a knack for being able to review hundreds of pages of documents and pinpoint exactly where the record companies were shady with the accounting and what they owed the artists. To avoid breach of contract lawsuits and publicity, the record companies usually paid up. And, ironically, one of Klein's first major "wins" against a record company was when he took on Morris Levy at Roulette in the early '60s!
In addition, one of the best characteristics of Doggett's book is that he skips all broad strokes and tropes -- Nobody in his book is perfect. Everyone comes off as human.
Thank you, Mike. Check out Joe Wisbey's comment re: the tropes in this book below! It seems that some fan want to treat some band members at more than human!
@@popgoesthe60s52 Just read that and commented.
It appears Joe responded and then took down his comments, so your fine response will not be seen. Maybe Joe will be back someday.
Always enjoy the Antony colabs, great review! So its a year later...how does this narrative stand up to Jackson's Get Back in your opinion? Considering there was actual involvement on the part of the artists / estates w/Get Back, does it make it any more relevant than past works?
Hmmm, that's a good question. I suffered from a bit of Get Back fatigue so I may need a little more time for the smoke to clear.
I think the key word there is 'narrative' but one thing it did seem to highlight is the huge difference between the Twickenham and Apple portions of the sessions in terms of goodwill. I think I remember saying before it came out that I was more enthused by the footage rather than any clarifications of 'truth'. I'm a little Beatles information-fatigued in general though, to be honest. Almost everything is little more than speculation at this point really, but that's the fun of it, right? An elusive puzzle that we'll never quite complete. Glad you enjoyed the talks anyway
really really wish you would do a program or two about those who steal from groups it is soo sooo sad
It took them less than 6 months to screw everything up. Apple doesn't start to roll until May of 1968 and they are already looking for saviors in November/December of 1968. It is during this time period they seek interviews with two large British personalities (Beechwood and at least one other person- whom they reject), while Paul recruits John Eastman in the same time period. I think their siding with Klein makes a bit more sense in this context. They have rejected previous ideas of new management, then Paul proposes the Eastmans, which is unacceptable to the other three for obvious reasons, and then Klein presents himself and he looks very good in comparison to the other choices looked at and offered. Keep in mind Klein had worked with a ton of people that they knew. He didn't come out of the blue. Besides the Stones , he had done very good deals for/with Donovan, Pete Townshend, the Kinks, the Animals and Herman's Hermits. So, despite his reputation, I think they knew far more about him than is let on.
Regarding the 'old John/new John' thing, I'm really looking forward to the new May Pang documentary. Was that a 3rd John, or a reversion to the old one? Seems like John missed the old John too, at that point.
I still have to see that doc. When John was with May, he was the old John because that's when he reconnected with his son and friends like Jagger and Nilsson.
oh yes the drugs would have made any fears really worse and as for her being at the studio one reason why they may have not wanted to be apart, I heard they almost died, or was really injured so may be he was a afraid of being away from her
Hey Matt, interesting discussion. I also noticed your Chipmunks Christmas album behind you. My copy’s been in the family for decades. Where’d you get yours?
Well, that copy I picked up cheap within the last 7-8 years. But we grew up with that album on 8-track and it was always a Christmas fave!
Although simplistic IMO Ono and Lennon together broke up the Beatles. The former was mendacious, devious and knew full well what she was doing. The latter as he was a damaged individual and wilfully destroyed the band camaraderie ie no wives or girlfriends, by deliberately insisting Ono should accompany him every where.
From my reading Lennon had the chance to rein things in but didn’t.
Great vid..magic Alex a highly dubious character..Johns judgment of character seemed very poor(magic Alex, Alan Klein and YOKO(OJ)..
Yes I agree
Thank you for another enjoyable video. Was that a reference to a McCartney / Ono pre-John dalliance I almost heard? Learned a new word today: jabroni - a foolish or contemptible person.
The supposed liaison between Ono & McCartney pre-Lennon is merely speculation. Though it gets talked about, there is no evidence for it.
Thank you for the clarification. I do remember coming away with that impression from reading "Paul McCartney: Many Years from Now".
I have this book but I haven't read it yet. Just finished one two three four which was great.
Great and interesting videos quite excellent debate I still put the Beatles is down to John , yes the other issues Mr K v the double E s yes that didn’t help but still it came down to John , I think George n ringo should brought forward there suggestions to manage the group may think George just followed John to upset Paul possible I guess it could have been done better but for me john always blamed people negative approach to yoko sent into harder drug use
A very interesting book.
There’s a Lennon quote that appears on the Anthology series where he says in relation to the aftermath of Epstein’s passing that, “I had no illusions about our ability to do anything other than create music,” (or words to that effect), which makes the Apple project something of a mystery as to why they did it if that’s what he genuinely thought at that time. I suspect a certain amount of hindsight applies here though.
Yes, the Beatles knew they were the best at their craft but anytime they stepped outside of that, post Epstein, they faltered.
The ultimate book on why the beatles broke up and why they STAYED broke up. Alan Klien and Dec 31 1970. It's so,,,,, heartbreaking almost. It was going to end but it should never have ended that way.
Wasn't Zappa in sort of contractual Bondage until the 80s? I guess he played it as carefully as he could relying on record companies and studio costs. Zappa said his drug was cigs and coffee plus he only ate stuff that was fried.
Your lava lamp has gone limp it seems.
Regarding Yoko, first off there is NO WAY SHE WOULD HAVE BEEN ATTENDING SESSIONS UNLESS LENNON INSISTED UPON IT. Of course the mere fact of ANYONE sitting in the midst of a working Rock band would change the atmosphere. If a dog is in a studio it can change the atmosphere! YOKO was ambitious but also very Japanese and polite as the culture is. She was also a known artist which was a big part of the Lennon attraction to her. I don’t blame her at all and the breakup was inevitable but of course she was a factor. Any new woman stuck in the middle of that situation would cause chaos.
I totally disagree and in my opinion she knew exactly what she was doing and for a supposedly bright intelligent woman why did she think it appropriate to join in with the band ?
She wasn’t in the band as the other wives were not part of the band. I think the other 3 band members were incredibly tolerant to put up with this hanger on . I guess for John’s sake they persevered with her antics . Her destructive behaviour will always be remembered .
i see the chipmunks christmas-you have excellent taste sir!
Is there any record of The Beatles and the Krays (or their ilk) crossing paths?
I am not aware of any. I can't imagine Epstein entertaining the thought unless he was blackmailed!
I've always tried to like Yoko. And part of me has respected her a lot since John's death. But let's just get something straight - ok, maybe it's true that most wives try to keep their husbands from their buddies, but that's still messed up. Talk about being selfish/childish; grow up ladies! Trying to control one's husband's (or wive's for that matter) life like that is not cool, full stop.
Plus, have a listen to May Pang's documentary; Yoko was also actively working to keep John from his flesh and blood child, Julian. That's pretty shitty in my book.
No excuses for Ms. Ono. Sorry, I'm much more inclined to respect a person like May Pang.
Good points about Julian. I don't see how people can give Ono a pass on this. She actively kept him from receiving calls and correspondence from his family in England.
Things kind of went off the rails around the 36:00 mark :)
I received "The Last Days of John Lennon" by James Patterson as a gift. Can somebody give me the lowdown on this book before I dive in?
I, too, received it as a gift a couple of years ago. I read the first two pages and could go no further. Patterson seemed to be having too much fun imagining himself in the mind of the murderer, as if the story was just another thrilling true crime yarn. It felt cheap--an insult to Lennon and those who care about him and his music.
@@harmonium8198 Thanks for the info!
sadly Amen about divorce brings out the worse in people
Special bond over drugs!
It may be a mistake to think Brian Epstein would have been the savior had he lived. The literature and video suggest something else. George Martin said the loss of Brian was huge but as he said, "there was no guarantee they would have listened to him anyway" had he lived. Paul McCartney's relationship with Brian was always a bit tenuous as documented and might have evolved into a full battle for control. Lennon/Ono would have likely moved on or found reasons to. The battle for control was always on the surface or just below. When Lennon stood up and claimed he was the "leader" at a press conference when a reporter asked who the leader was, the disdain on McCartney's face was clearly evident.
Well, McCartney admitted that John was the leader and says it to John directly in the Get Back sessions. Paul goes so far to say that he is uncomfortable as "the leader" in the same conversation. John is the leader when it suits him, is my opinion and that is called "leading from behind."
What year was this book published? Really?
2009.
She definitely was a problem to the band and all those trying to manage the band
Yoko was the Megan Markle of her day. She connived to remove her man from his world and replace it with one where she better controlled him.
The parallels are hard to ignore. Thanks Kevin!
@@Joewizzard260 Hi Joe. I’m disappointed that you appear to have removed your earlier comments to our discussion on Doggett’s book. If you approach my channel the same way you did the Doggett book, by taking two quotes and deciding, “I can’t take the book seriously,” then you are simply not open to alternative perspectives.
It’s hard to take you seriously when you use my comment section to post links advertising your podcast appearances, but then run when you are asked a legitimate question by me. I’m happy to have a dialog with you Joe, but pointing me to a podcast that you suggest “may open my eyes” is a condescending way to have dialog. I wouldn’t imply you need to view anything from a different perspective. That would be patronizing.
Matt, Let me throw a discordant note on this episode. The more that I hear Rotundo, the less I care for him. He has some interesting thoughts, but I find that I would prefer to hear you alone reviewung the book. And while I am in my critical mode, may I say that I really disliked Plastic EP and abandoned that episode after ten painful minutes.
I did listen to all of this show, however, as I have liked Doggett's magazine articles and the book is in my (virtual) stack of books.
I'm impressed you lasted 10 minutes of Plast EP!
I was a bit bored by Rotundo, part one, but parts two and three were much more interesting. It's strictly a personal quirk I suppose, but Rotundo's voice and manner wear on me.
And going back to sixties films, I started watching "Ipcress File" on TCM last night, but it was not the full screen version and thus a bit disappointing. The director approached the movie like an art film with odd angles, shots through keyholes, cymbals, and behinf car windows. he also used the full screen in conversations, placing the camera behind one conversant's shoulder while placing the other person off center as a result. The director was avant garde for the time, though many of his ideas were adopted by others and no longer are quite as astonishing as they were in '65. See the wide screen version if you can. It's still one of my favorite movies, though my taste is only MY taste.@@popgoesthe60s52
Georege REALLY came across as cranky in the Get Back film. He was passive aggressive just like you said, Matt. He woud have kinda ticked me off being a burr in my side.
I'm really surprised that these two seem to be trying to rehabilitate Yoko's image. What gives guys...did she donate to your channel? My god, all you have to do is look at the way she interfered with John post Beatles, like imposing herself into the Double Fantasy album and the screaming during live performance etc.
What gives, jesse1d? You obviously don't know my channel very well. Check out the 10 Reasons The Beatles Broke Up and Ono gets her own fucking place among the10 reasons! There are other Ono topics you'll probably find quite critical as well (see: all the Get Back videos). Like many Beatles fans, they don't always recognize balance when they hear it - especially when they don't bother to wait for the second part of this video! In addition, the Double Fantasy album is beyond the scope of the topic of this book.
Peter needs to work on his lighting and shading.
You mean Anthony.
@@elmolewis9123 Correct! But maybe Peter did too
@@alandesmarais4341 ?
@@elmolewis9123 yes?
Too many assumption... disappointing edition.