I survived a cardiac arrest while driving. For 8 days, the prognosis was grim. I made it without any cognitive impairment. After humoring their obviously good will for as long as I could stand, I finally publicly told the prayer people to stop taking credit for what emergency responders, medical staff and the researchers who gave then their tools achieved.
It is so easy to count only scores and not the misses. I am sure when the subject of their prayer had a bad outcome, the refrain was " it was God's will." They never postulated that prayer had no impact on outcomes.
Correct. In their minds this doesn’t apply that way. There must be in-groups whom gods law protects but does not bind, and out groups whose gods law binds but does not protect. Special pleading and special treatment.
No, I'm afraid this objection is easily answered by saying that God heals those He chooses to heal for reasons that we could not comprehend. God obviously does not save everyone in the world who is in trouble and also a Christian. I think the more effective comeback is: unless you are claiming that you know the mind of God, how can you explain who He will save and who He won't, and why? The Bible makes no promises that God will heal the physical problems of every believer.
Not really. Because, otherwise, people like Hitler would have just asked God to protect him. People misunderstand Faith. It’s not about god granting wishes. It’s about trusting god to do what gods do for god’s own sake.
@@akmi1931 "Not really"...what? I agree that God obviously isn't just helping anyone who asks for help. So theists can explain God helping people apparently randomly with the old "God moves in mysterious ways, and for His own good reasons." The problem with that theist claim is that this means that God's help looks exactly like there is no God, since no one can ever predict what will actually lead God to intervene. God becomes a force/phenomenon like "luck," or "fortune."
If faith healers seriously wanted to help people then they wouldn't be selling tickets to their performances. I'm glad my doctor doesn't work in a convention center in front of an audience.
A child is ill with cancer (that God gave him) do you: A. Pray he magically recovers B. Wish for a miracle Or C. Take him to a real doctor who will use real medicine to fix a real problem without God's magical nonsense involved Choose wisely!
The most insidious thing about "faith healers" is how they lay guilt on the victims when "miracles" don't happen. They never say, "Oh well, I guess this faith healing thing works no better than the rate of chance. Sorry!" Instead, the "faith healer" suggests that the victim's faith must be stronger. In my opinion, that's the definition of an "evil" act!
Current court case in Queensland, Australia for members of a religious sect who withheld insulin from a child in preference to pray to God. Sadly the child died from a coma. The defendants maintain they did nothing wrong..apart fm allowing the death of child?
As a life long diabetic myself I understand how that must have felt. I have suffered from a case of extreme hypoglycaemia where I received too much insulin by accident during the night. I believe it was due to me rolling over onto my insulin pump and injected 10 units of insulin. That's enough insulin to counter a large meal. I woke up the following morning sensing something was wrong. By instinct I tried to get to my computer to check my emails assuming the odd feeling would wear off. I tried to type in my password only to find nothing worked. I could not remember it and my finders were trying to type it out purely by muscle memory. I then tried to get downstairs to get help from other family members. I sat down next to mum who could tell immediately something was wrong. I tried to speak. I knew what I wanted to say but every time I said something gibberish came out instead. I had to rely on answering questions by nodding and shaking heads as I simply had lost the ability to communicate. I felt like a prisoner within my own body. All the energy drained from me just moving around was difficult enough. After eating about 18 glucose tablets I slowly recovered and spent the rest of the day in hospital where I learned the portion of my brain that dealt with communication had literally shut down due to sugar starvation. There was the worry I may be like this for the rest of my life but I did eventually recover much to everyone's huge relief. Other than the bad memories of the ordeal there was no lasting effects. I can't imagine going through something similar at an age where I was at the mercy of others for medical assistance and due to age not being able to comprehend when something was wrong with me and being able to do something to communicate that to them. Having high or low blood sugar is something you feel. There are almost no visible indication for it that another person can observe. It's reliant upon technology and the person with diabetes to alert others to their situation. Those people responsible for that child's death should be sent to prison for at least child negligence and at worst 1st degree murder. They knew Insulin was keeping the child alive and that removing it was fatal. Yet they did it anyway to pander to their beliefs.
Sarah and Travis Mitchell, members of the Followers of Christ Church, a faith-healing sect, let one of their premature twin daughters die instead of getting her treatment because they believe in prayer, not medical science. During their trial on the charges of negligent homicide and criminal mistreatment, people noticed that the mom was wearing glasses & asked why the parents can seek medical help to fix their poor eyesight but not to save the life of their newborn. She stopped wearing the glasses in court after that went public.
My main question is 'if this pastor can truly faith heal, why isn't he curing kids in hospitals, or masses of people with documented health problems?' They claim it is the patient faith, but his bible claims that anything you ask of jesus, even with a tiny bit of faith! 👍🏼💙💙💙🥰✌
There’s an easy answer to the question, too: it’s because the pastor is a bad person. If they’re for real, they’re a bad person, and if it turns out they’re fake, that also makes them a bad person. All faith healers are bad people.
How did we get so brainwashed into nonsense that was written 2000 years ago from people that couldn’t put it on paper until 1500s doesn’t make any sense that we believe so wholeheartedly in magic
It’s rare to see a theist caller who has genuinely done their homework. Ever. They come in with a claim of being healed or witnessing a miracle or receiving direct revelation from God and when asked for proof they all fold. They often leave the call convinced they "won" and carry on with their beliefs as if unchallenged. I've yet to hear a single caller claiming a direct connection with God actually take up the hosts' challenge to pray, test it, and call back with results. Not once has anyone returned to prove it when prompted.
Okay look the evidence for it is the Gospels Matthew , Mark , Luke and John there the eye witnesses that actually met Jesus the Gospels are historical records both Matthew , Mark , Luke and John said Jesus rose from the dead they both recorded Jesus was crucified , buried and rose. Paul the Apostle who wrote the Epistles he testified to before Paul was a Apostle he used to persecute the church and hunt Christians Paul used to believe Jesus body was stolen from the grave by his disciples until he had a face to face encounter with Jesus then he testified in his Epistles that Jesus was crucified , buried and rose from the dead.
@Leith_Crowther I think the difference is that we have so much information at our fingertips and have so much historical knowledge and scientific understanding of our world that we should be more savvy. And I would guess that in the past, pre-tech and pre-industrial, it would be easier for some traveling flim-flam artist to fool a small village before running off.
It's the nature of the beast. The time period doesn't matter. History is the study of how the human character responds to widely varying times and circumstances. The human character does not change. The average human IQ is 100. The latest figures I could find for the US are 98. As a species, human beings really aren't very intelligent. We're clever, but that's not the same thing. As a species, we're just not capable of much better than what we are now.
I read a comment a couple of days from someone who excitedly claimed to have witnessed an "incredible" miracle. This was offered without a hint of irony, just to be clear. And when I pointed out the basic contradiction in finding an "incredible" event to be especially credible, the person immediately deflected. I'm fascinated by these extreme cognitive biases. Here's someone who is not just irrational but actively averse to rationality. And they exist in significant numbers, enough evidently to swing a presidential election.
As Aron aid once.... "A delusion is the state of experiencing something that can't be observed, tested, measured and is held with absolute certainty in it's integrity in light of contradicting evidence... This is Delusion. But when you get enough people all experiencing the same delusion all stating it as true then it becomes a religion." or something to that effect. So in conclusion. If you get enough stupid together in a collective mass the truth no longer matters and will believe anything.
For all you faith healing believers out there, I want to announce the opening of my faith mechanic shop. Bring in your car and I'll take car of all the demons plagueing your vehicle.😅
This loving gawd won't drop mana from heaven for the ten thousand children who starve to death DAILY but "he" healed this dude's wife. GTFO. This is such a disgustingly privileged religion.
A couple of close friends of my wife and I are Pentecostal, one of their dads is the Minister of their merry band and she asked her dad to pray for me, the entire congregation did multiple faith healing prayers for me as a whole group at their church, and once they came to my house, I thanked them for their awesome intentions but declined their hands on faith healing prayer group that they wanted to do, Im atheist, so they prayed out the front of the house for about 30 minutes, it was very odd... and not surprisingly nothing happened, Im still suffering CFS / ME and a host of other issues. If faith healing really did work, even at a low rate, faith healers would be employed by medical institutions and there would be some hard data correlating with their "work", but nothing of the kind exists, its entirely BS, just like all religiously based claims.
I note that he claimed that his wife’s ailment recovery was scientifically verifiable. Provide that evidence. My understanding is there is no method of actually objectively diagnosing fibromyalgia
I know this clip is several yrs. old, but it still shows why I'm having a really hard time feeling positive about humanity, especially after the events in the U.S. over the last week. Because Jon - CA seem intelligent and probably even educated, and yet he's so willing to believe in crap like faith healing. For me, it just shows how deeply flawed our species is.
I was raised in protestant denomination Baptist but I'm not here to represent my church or denomination I'm here to represent Jesus because when we face judgment God will either say well done you good faithful servant or depart from me you worker of iniquity not what church or denomination your in.
Okay let me explain this obtaining salvation is not through being in particular Christian denominations yes there are many denominations Catholics , Baptists , presbyterians , pentecostals , Adventists , Methodists nondenominationals ect we all have different interpretations , approaches ect but it at the same time can be linked to the teachings of Jesus the understanding is different a follower of Christ is called Christian that's it there different approaches to applying the teachings of Jesus Christ look in every church there are faithful followers of Christ and Lukewarm.
Every faith healing can also be explained by placebo effect, spontaneous remission, initial misdiagnoses, and/or lying. Plus you hear a lot less from people it didn't work for because they likely stopped treatment thinking it had and wound up dead.
Isn't it funny that when you try a bunch of therapies the cure is always the last one you tried. Kind of like when you lose your keys and they always are found in the last place you look.
I wanted to quit smoking after 25 years or so. I decided to go into an experiment held by a hospital. They used this patch with an old heart medication on it. Within a week, I had no interest in smoking. I worked on it. I worked hard. I have now been a non smoker for 25 years. It worked, but it did not work without blood sweat and tears from me. Afterward, they told me I was the only person who had totally quit (it was only a year by the time I learned this). It was a one in a million heal, and I was the anomaly, the black swan.
It's so sad that Jon's stubborn delusions brought out such painful memory but him doubling down in the end with "she's with the lord bs" is either tone deaf or evil, or maybe both. Not to mention, by his own admition, he worships entity that choses to let the devil kill children... Yeah, they say you can't hate fictional characters but i do hate christian god and everything it stands for
So.. Chicken soup had healing powers. That's what in hearing? Lol. When I wss a kid. We had cough syrup. I always liked the taste. Many years later as an adult I tried a specific flavor of liquorish shots ( we love liquorish here in Denmark) and immediately I was brought back to cough syrup. That syrup back then didn't cure coughs. What it did was provide a little alcohol that would make you drowsy and sleep easier. And that in turn gave parents some peace from the sick kid. And the sleep helped you get over it as it's just something you need to wait out. Ofcourse The thick consistence of the syrup did help a sore throat as well.
"trolls in these threads need to get laid." Not going to happen... The troll mentality is not conducive with the social skills required to meet with a woman, let alone get anywhere towards a relationship... That's why they come here... no one in real life will have much to do with them...
I also appreciate her. May I ask, why point out that she's missed? Did she die or merely chose not to be a co-host on The Atheist Experience? If it's the latter, is the reason known?
@@tylerdyson8410 What are the Jesus rules? Is that the rule you used to justify what happened at camp because as long as you say, "no homo", it's not gay? Or is it the rule where as long as you pick it up in under 5 seconds, you can eat that piece of pizza that fell on the floor? Are there any other Jesus rules? I'm not sure if it includes, "what happens in the rectory, stays in the rectory."
Okay as a Christian a follower of Christ I have certain dos and don'ts the scripture says the body is the temple of God meaning we can't do anything with our bodies Jesus taught sexual purity which means either get married in a traditional human and wife married then have kids if they can of just abstain from all forms of sexual acts. When the scriptures uses the terms sexual immorality it's not just referring to homosexuality it also refers to fornication , adultery , sodomy , orgies , incest , beastiality ect.
@@tylerdyson8410 So those are the Jesus rules? And that's the reason you are not doing those things? How many orgies did you turn down??? Just curious. You seem kind of obsessed with things that people don't need "Jesus rules" to keep them from doing. A woman being attracted to a man was actually a curse that god placed on the woman for eating some forbidden fruit. So it seems she has no choice.
@@tylerdyson8410Got a question for ya.. would you be my slave under the rules of Exodus 21? I'll follow everything it says, you'll follow everything it says too of course. Also do women have to shut up and follow their husband all the time? That's what the bible says 🤷
I love it when I ask Christians why they believe in God and they use the I prayed and my wife got better ect As they have all spent their lives as Christians believing for decades prior to that event. It had nothing to do with why they believed in God in the first place and if preying didn’t work. As happens to lots of Christians. They still carry on believing anyway. It’s just plain old confirmation bias.
Aron Ra is a great debater. But when he tries to guess the character or what his opponent will say, I think he sometimes gets a little hasty. Most, if not all, of these believers have been indoctrinated to believe these things, so you have to consider that as well.
Apparently Christians have an erection when they pray while taking a dump. Who knew? But good thing we have a toddler Christian here to tell us how it's done. Strange though what these Christian rituals are.😬
Forgot to mention the Preacher who claimed that a lady had her toes grow back. I offered $100k (real dollars, US, not mythical ones) for proof, and they didn't even contact me. I kept bothering them, nothing back from them. Guess the Church didn't need money.
Acupuncture helped my chronic pain quite a bit. I realized I just needed set time away from stress to physically relax. Meditation works just as well now, and I also go to float therapy -- sensory deprivation tanks are awesome.
20:25 Reminds me of when my and brother were sick, grandma or mom would make us a “Hot lemon” (hot water, sugar, lemon juice) always made me feel better. I mentioned to my doctor once that I used that with a sore throat and she was like “well, the acidity in the lemon probably wouldn’t be too helpful … but sometimes childhood remedies do the trick even when it doesn’t make perfect sense.” 😂😭 but also citrus is good for some extra vitamins and such when you’re sick at least, right?
The sadly departed DR Michael Mosley did a great TV program on the placebo effect...well worth a watch, absolutely fascinating..! Rip Doc , unfortunately you left to soon man . 😢
Yes exactly to Tracy's point placebo's work quite well oftentimes because the mind is a powerful healer and especially pain reliever. And it's why psychiatric therapy can be so beneficial to people and using hypnosis and so believing your healed can have the same effect as psychiatrist and in this case the guy is a psychiatrist who also is a believer so mentally she feels better but it doesn't mean God was involved
Faith healers are what i consider as strong indication that God doesn't exist. Not because of what the faith healers do, but rather because of what their audience thinks is happening. Same with televangelists. Their audience experiences real feelings of the "holy spirit" speaking to them, which is literally impossible when the faith healer is a proven fraud. God would not let his followers fall for it, but they do, because they think their inner monologue is the holy spirit.
It seems like if it were a god doing the healing, the healing would be 100%. In other words, not just feeling better, but rather completely symptom free for the rest of their lives. Because, you know, God and all.
I have had RA from the ages of 5-30 with fibro and OA. Then at 31 my RA went in remission and has stayed that way for the past six years now, and my doctors have no idea why. I think it might have been all the RA medicine I was on.
I think he did. Cause I heard that next year, the winner of the Novel prize in medicine is some guy who cured all the children in a cancer ward through faith healing.
Anyone can do a thought experiment with any God or deity they choose at random and see how the mind creates a deep feeling of being in touch with that projection, all these Gods and saviours and gurus are projections of the self, notice that the person always gains something from it, a feeling of being saved, being special or protected , its all about them. They have surrendered themselves to Jesus but its still their ego creating this fantasy. If you want to see a giant ego pretending to be humble then look at Christian preachers online.
It certainly feels like if it wasn't for religion, as a whole, providing a convenient means of explaining away uncomfortable topics? Preventing or squelching questioning of said topics? We would probably be in a better place. Why cure/invent/understand when "Because Jesus/God." :(
He will eventually post something that will trigger the UA-cam censor bots to suspend his account, but you can bet your ass he'll blame us for it anyway.
It's honestly amazing that more of these healers aren't prosecuted for malpractice. I went to a place once in Sydney Australia, and became a customer on their books. 1 year later I got a letter saying they had been sued, had to close their doors, and were not allowed to practice any longer. It's been a while I can't remember the name of the place. Harsh, but hey, stop lying.
Just as a sidenote.. A psycologist that threat PTSD is not that uncommon in general... And fibromyalgia can go into remission for even years, including threatments that reduce stress like what occurs with PTSD... Cure one and you seemingly cure both for a while...
Actually, humans are not monkeys. Humans are great apes, along with chimpanzees and gorillas, and Bonobo‘s and orangutans. Monkeys and great apes are not the same. Let’s try to get the biology right and not perpetuate misunderstandings.
Monkeys and great apes are indeed not the same, but great apes are part of monkeys unless you explicitly exclude them. That exclusion is common, I will give you that, but not based on biological lineage. Actually, old-world monkeys are more closely related to humans than to new-world monkeys, so if you deem the old- and new-world monkeys to all be monkeys, then leaving out hominids is artificial. Quote: "Monkey is a common name that may refer to most mammals of the infraorder Simiiformes, also known as simians. Traditionally, all animals in the group now known as simians are counted as monkeys except the apes. Thus monkeys, in that sense, constitute an incomplete paraphyletic grouping; however, in the broader sense based on cladistics, apes (Hominoidea) are also included, making the terms monkeys and simians synonyms in regard to their scope."
Man wrote the Bible it’s all I got to say everybody that believes in the Bible believes in some man writing a Bible not a God stories of what happened passed down generation to generation makes no sense. How brainwashed people are I know we need something to hang onto, but that’s ridiculous.
How did this guy eliminate the possibility that other treatments his wife took may have had their own "it's gonna be a process" time period and it just happened to take effect after the faith healer came into the picture?
Don't ask if he has done any research, because he doesn't. If he actually keeps detailed records of successes and fails, then there is a basis to do some/more research. If he actually is successful based on statistically significant results, but can't provide a physical mechanism to explain it, then perhaps there should be some research to determine what the physical mechanism may be. Having verified data without being able to explain what is happening isn't necessarily a fail, it is a reason to do research to find the explanation. Of course, I have not heard of any faith healer who keeps those kinds of record. Remember the caller said that god answers in 3 ways. "Yes, Yes but it will take time, and it is exceedingly abundantly above what your are asking for." I am taking that last one as a deceptive way of saying no. Looking carefully at the statement is seems like it is saying that while what you are asking for can be done, the method god uses would give you more than what you are asking for. OR it is a confusing way of saying that you are asking for way too much.
I'm surprised Aron, you mentioned the Baha'u'llah as being the last prophet or messenger, after Jesus. I would like to have your opinion about the Baha'i faith...
Having spent more time than I want to recall in spinal wards and wheelchairs, I loved it when god-botherers try and preach in the wards. They always get told to bugger off by the patients😁
A lot about being an atheist is explaining what proof and evidence is/ how the scientific method works/ critical thinking🤷 she literally spelled out how the scientific method works with regards to medicine and the caller still will not understand😮
This is old but a couple of points. It seems to be glazed over, the human machine is amazing! Its ability to adapt and repair is truly amazing! More times than not, the simplest answer folks. 😊 Couldn’t let this slide, someone has no idea what cupping is, how it works or that it’s widely used in western medicine and physical therapy today, as well as dry needle. It’s physical manipulation, nothing magic about it.
Its irritating,we all have lost someone we love. If there were some kind of great evidence for this,we would all believe. I want to see my family again,there is no good evidence for it,except the book and people who believe in the book.
If this ministry actually had the support of an all-powerful god...they wouldn't need money at all. Ever. The fact the ministry is taking money proves their god can't provide for them.
I doubt he even _got_ a spouse ... (A weird thought (edit); Did he say this guy is still treating his wife (you know, like one does a psychologist)? If so, he _does_ have a spouse, but she might be cheating on him.... _with_ this miracle worker...)
I survived a cardiac arrest while driving. For 8 days, the prognosis was grim. I made it without any cognitive impairment. After humoring their obviously good will for as long as I could stand, I finally publicly told the prayer people to stop taking credit for what emergency responders, medical staff and the researchers who gave then their tools achieved.
Thank you
Good on you bro 👍, and good to hear you are doing well
It is so easy to count only scores and not the misses. I am sure when the subject of their prayer had a bad outcome, the refrain was " it was God's will." They never postulated that prayer had no impact on outcomes.
“GOD” SAVED HIM ( Group Of Doctors)
@@peterclancy3653😊 Absolutely 💯
When people say "Sometimes his answer is no", all I hear is "Heads I win, tails you lose."
I have fibromyalgia. When I listen to my Beatles records, I feel better. John Lennon healed me.
Me too! But now Queen is a more effective treatment for me. I still use the Beatles once in a while though, depending on my symptoms and needs.
@@LillyTheLonelySock Donovan is my favorite healing God
@@donfette5301 What songs in particular?
Metallica heals me of quite a few illnesses, especially mental illness, almost every day.
I'd say most people would agree with you 👍
If you're a faith healer, with God working through you, you should have a 100% success rate. If you don't... you're not.
Correct. In their minds this doesn’t apply that way. There must be in-groups whom gods law protects but does not bind, and out groups whose gods law binds but does not protect. Special pleading and special treatment.
No, I'm afraid this objection is easily answered by saying that God heals those He chooses to heal for reasons that we could not comprehend. God obviously does not save everyone in the world who is in trouble and also a Christian.
I think the more effective comeback is: unless you are claiming that you know the mind of God, how can you explain who He will save and who He won't, and why? The Bible makes no promises that God will heal the physical problems of every believer.
Not really. Because, otherwise, people like Hitler would have just asked God to protect him.
People misunderstand Faith. It’s not about god granting wishes. It’s about trusting god to do what gods do for god’s own sake.
@@akmi1931 "Not really"...what? I agree that God obviously isn't just helping anyone who asks for help.
So theists can explain God helping people apparently randomly with the old "God moves in mysterious ways, and for His own good reasons."
The problem with that theist claim is that this means that God's help looks exactly like there is no God, since no one can ever predict what will actually lead God to intervene. God becomes a force/phenomenon like "luck," or "fortune."
@@maxm2639 So then the faith healers aren't actually the healers. They're not needed.
If faith healers seriously wanted to help people then they wouldn't be selling tickets to their performances. I'm glad my doctor doesn't work in a convention center in front of an audience.
Money is simply the transfer of energy in the form of commodities and services. How can anything major be done without exchange?
@@HolgerLubotzkiso how much did Benny Hinn take you for?
@@canderson5098
Not enough apparently
@@HolgerLubotzkiHoly shit, is your religion Full Metal Alchemist?
@@Leith_Crowther😂😂😂 The law of equivalent exchange.
A child is ill with cancer (that God gave him) do you:
A. Pray he magically recovers
B. Wish for a miracle
Or C. Take him to a real doctor who will use real medicine to fix a real problem without God's magical nonsense involved
Choose wisely!
They choose C but act like A actually does anything.
All of the above and then give option A the credit to validate your faith
I was chronicaly confused and asked god to help, god guided me to atheist experience and my confusion left. Thank god for atheism.
The most insidious thing about "faith healers" is how they lay guilt on the victims when "miracles" don't happen. They never say, "Oh well, I guess this faith healing thing works no better than the rate of chance. Sorry!"
Instead, the "faith healer" suggests that the victim's faith must be stronger. In my opinion, that's the definition of an "evil" act!
Unbelievable, this guy is so incredibly condescending and clearly ignorant about the things he is talking about, it is incredible
Par for the course for most theists
If Marvin Gaye couldn't win the Nobel Prize with his sexual healing, im certain faith healing won't have any effect.
🤣🤣🍻
🤣🤣🤣 Best laugh I've had all day🤣🤣🤣
You should change your last name to Gaye, when you marry your gay partner Jon.
Current court case in Queensland, Australia for members of a religious sect who withheld insulin from a child in preference to pray to God. Sadly the child died from a coma. The defendants maintain they did nothing wrong..apart fm allowing the death of child?
Happened several times in the States.
As a life long diabetic myself I understand how that must have felt. I have suffered from a case of extreme hypoglycaemia where I received too much insulin by accident during the night. I believe it was due to me rolling over onto my insulin pump and injected 10 units of insulin. That's enough insulin to counter a large meal. I woke up the following morning sensing something was wrong.
By instinct I tried to get to my computer to check my emails assuming the odd feeling would wear off. I tried to type in my password only to find nothing worked. I could not remember it and my finders were trying to type it out purely by muscle memory.
I then tried to get downstairs to get help from other family members. I sat down next to mum who could tell immediately something was wrong. I tried to speak. I knew what I wanted to say but every time I said something gibberish came out instead. I had to rely on answering questions by nodding and shaking heads as I simply had lost the ability to communicate. I felt like a prisoner within my own body. All the energy drained from me just moving around was difficult enough.
After eating about 18 glucose tablets I slowly recovered and spent the rest of the day in hospital where I learned the portion of my brain that dealt with communication had literally shut down due to sugar starvation.
There was the worry I may be like this for the rest of my life but I did eventually recover much to everyone's huge relief. Other than the bad memories of the ordeal there was no lasting effects.
I can't imagine going through something similar at an age where I was at the mercy of others for medical assistance and due to age not being able to comprehend when something was wrong with me and being able to do something to communicate that to them. Having high or low blood sugar is something you feel. There are almost no visible indication for it that another person can observe. It's reliant upon technology and the person with diabetes to alert others to their situation.
Those people responsible for that child's death should be sent to prison for at least child negligence and at worst 1st degree murder. They knew Insulin was keeping the child alive and that removing it was fatal. Yet they did it anyway to pander to their beliefs.
beliefs kill people. be atheist instead.
I can believe that quite easily.
Sarah and Travis Mitchell, members of the Followers of Christ Church, a faith-healing sect, let one of their premature twin daughters die instead of getting her treatment because they believe in prayer, not medical science. During their trial on the charges of negligent homicide and criminal mistreatment, people noticed that the mom was wearing glasses & asked why the parents can seek medical help to fix their poor eyesight but not to save the life of their newborn. She stopped wearing the glasses in court after that went public.
He's calling the hits and ignoring the misses.
My main question is 'if this pastor can truly faith heal, why isn't he curing kids in hospitals, or masses of people with documented health problems?' They claim it is the patient faith, but his bible claims that anything you ask of jesus, even with a tiny bit of faith! 👍🏼💙💙💙🥰✌
There’s an easy answer to the question, too: it’s because the pastor is a bad person. If they’re for real, they’re a bad person, and if it turns out they’re fake, that also makes them a bad person. All faith healers are bad people.
How did we get so brainwashed into nonsense that was written 2000 years ago from people that couldn’t put it on paper until 1500s doesn’t make any sense that we believe so wholeheartedly in magic
Constant war and reinforcement😢
indoctrination my friend.....
Rural inbred and degenerate braindrain. They dumb and crazy
It’s rare to see a theist caller who has genuinely done their homework. Ever. They come in with a claim of being healed or witnessing a miracle or receiving direct revelation from God and when asked for proof they all fold. They often leave the call convinced they "won" and carry on with their beliefs as if unchallenged. I've yet to hear a single caller claiming a direct connection with God actually take up the hosts' challenge to pray, test it, and call back with results. Not once has anyone returned to prove it when prompted.
Yeah Jesus is real
@@tylerdyson8410 Any real evidence for this or just more obfuscating BS?
@@tylerdyson8410 if you believe that Jesus is alive right now, how can you show that that's true?
Okay look the evidence for it is the Gospels Matthew , Mark , Luke and John there the eye witnesses that actually met Jesus the Gospels are historical records both Matthew , Mark , Luke and John said Jesus rose from the dead they both recorded Jesus was crucified , buried and rose. Paul the Apostle who wrote the Epistles he testified to before Paul was a Apostle he used to persecute the church and hunt Christians Paul used to believe Jesus body was stolen from the grave by his disciples until he had a face to face encounter with Jesus then he testified in his Epistles that Jesus was crucified , buried and rose from the dead.
@tylerdyson8410 why should we trust the gospels?
When you have the flu, chicken soup help with hydration, but more important with the salt you are losing. That's what makes you feel better.
How are people still so gullible in the 21st century ? 🤦♂️
What, do you think there’s some kind of 21st-century gene that makes extant humans more or less gullible than older humans? This is a silly question.
@Leith_Crowther I think the difference is that we have so much information at our fingertips and have so much historical knowledge and scientific understanding of our world that we should be more savvy.
And I would guess that in the past, pre-tech and pre-industrial, it would be easier for some traveling flim-flam artist to fool a small village before running off.
It's the nature of the beast. The time period doesn't matter. History is the study of how the human character responds to widely varying times and circumstances. The human character does not change. The average human IQ is 100. The latest figures I could find for the US are 98. As a species, human beings really aren't very intelligent. We're clever, but that's not the same thing. As a species, we're just not capable of much better than what we are now.
just like aron rah said we are still monkeys. and monkeys often just follow the rest of their tribe instead of thinking for themselves.
because it is written on the ceiling XD
I read a comment a couple of days from someone who excitedly claimed to have witnessed an "incredible" miracle.
This was offered without a hint of irony, just to be clear. And when I pointed out the basic contradiction in finding an "incredible" event to be especially credible, the person immediately deflected.
I'm fascinated by these extreme cognitive biases. Here's someone who is not just irrational but actively averse to rationality. And they exist in significant numbers, enough evidently to swing a presidential election.
As Aron aid once.... "A delusion is the state of experiencing something that can't be observed, tested, measured and is held with absolute certainty in it's integrity in light of contradicting evidence... This is Delusion. But when you get enough people all experiencing the same delusion all stating it as true then it becomes a religion." or something to that effect.
So in conclusion. If you get enough stupid together in a collective mass the truth no longer matters and will believe anything.
For all you faith healing believers out there, I want to announce the opening of my faith mechanic shop. Bring in your car and I'll take car of all the demons plagueing your vehicle.😅
This loving gawd won't drop mana from heaven for the ten thousand children who starve to death DAILY but "he" healed this dude's wife. GTFO. This is such a disgustingly privileged religion.
A couple of close friends of my wife and I are Pentecostal, one of their dads is the Minister of their merry band and she asked her dad to pray for me, the entire congregation did multiple faith healing prayers for me as a whole group at their church, and once they came to my house, I thanked them for their awesome intentions but declined their hands on faith healing prayer group that they wanted to do, Im atheist, so they prayed out the front of the house for about 30 minutes, it was very odd... and not surprisingly nothing happened, Im still suffering CFS / ME and a host of other issues.
If faith healing really did work, even at a low rate, faith healers would be employed by medical institutions and there would be some hard data correlating with their "work", but nothing of the kind exists, its entirely BS, just like all religiously based claims.
Faith healing works 100%. When it doesn't work, it's because of the patient. They didn't have enough faith.
Who could dispute that?
Faith healing is illegal in the UK, for very good reason.
I note that he claimed that his wife’s ailment recovery was scientifically verifiable. Provide that evidence. My understanding is there is no method of actually objectively diagnosing fibromyalgia
I know this clip is several yrs. old, but it still shows why I'm having a really hard time feeling positive about humanity, especially after the events in the U.S. over the last week. Because Jon - CA seem intelligent and probably even educated, and yet he's so willing to believe in crap like faith healing.
For me, it just shows how deeply flawed our species is.
Jesus helped me to listen to this caller. I couldn't do it without help😅
Jesus is real God
@@tylerdyson8410 What version of Christianity do you believe in?
I was raised in protestant denomination Baptist but I'm not here to represent my church or denomination I'm here to represent Jesus because when we face judgment God will either say well done you good faithful servant or depart from me you worker of iniquity not what church or denomination your in.
@@tylerdyson8410 No. God will ask what denomination you were in. Haven't you heard from the Christians? Some denominations are wrong.
Okay let me explain this obtaining salvation is not through being in particular Christian denominations yes there are many denominations Catholics , Baptists , presbyterians , pentecostals , Adventists , Methodists nondenominationals ect we all have different interpretations , approaches ect but it at the same time can be linked to the teachings of Jesus the understanding is different a follower of Christ is called Christian that's it there different approaches to applying the teachings of Jesus Christ look in every church there are faithful followers of Christ and Lukewarm.
"Is God performing miracles on these rats?" Yes. Yes, he is. Because rats are God's wonderful little children. I've had several.
32:52 sobering moment. I empathize with Aron. No prayers, here. Just empathy.
Every faith healing can also be explained by placebo effect, spontaneous remission, initial misdiagnoses, and/or lying.
Plus you hear a lot less from people it didn't work for because they likely stopped treatment thinking it had and wound up dead.
We can rejoice in the knowledge that there's faithhealers afoot. No more having to pay those greedy doctors. 🤣.
Isn't it funny that when you try a bunch of therapies the cure is always the last one you tried. Kind of like when you lose your keys and they always are found in the last place you look.
I wanted to quit smoking after 25 years or so. I decided to go into an experiment held by a hospital. They used this patch with an old heart medication on it. Within a week, I had no interest in smoking. I worked on it. I worked hard. I have now been a non smoker for 25 years. It worked, but it did not work without blood sweat and tears from me. Afterward, they told me I was the only person who had totally quit (it was only a year by the time I learned this). It was a one in a million heal, and I was the anomaly, the black swan.
I think that means goddunit. No other explanation. Even science doesn't know.
You do know that Black Swans are common in Aust?
Swans in Australia are black. Google it.
It's so sad that Jon's stubborn delusions brought out such painful memory but him doubling down in the end with "she's with the lord bs" is either tone deaf or evil, or maybe both. Not to mention, by his own admition, he worships entity that choses to let the devil kill children...
Yeah, they say you can't hate fictional characters but i do hate christian god and everything it stands for
I cut my arm the other day and it healed all on its own without praying. And I don't believe God exists.
Prove an arm grew back then I'll attribute some time to consider the issue.
Faith healing sounds about as useful as tit on a bull 😂
And a good Tuesday morning AXP fans and theists ❤❤❤
Peace Love Empathy From Australia 🤠
Bout like trying to milk a bull. 😂😂😂
@@wakingforbacon6439 One could get surprising results 😂
So.. Chicken soup had healing powers. That's what in hearing? Lol.
When I wss a kid. We had cough syrup. I always liked the taste.
Many years later as an adult I tried a specific flavor of liquorish shots ( we love liquorish here in Denmark) and immediately I was brought back to cough syrup.
That syrup back then didn't cure coughs. What it did was provide a little alcohol that would make you drowsy and sleep easier. And that in turn gave parents some peace from the sick kid. And the sleep helped you get over it as it's just something you need to wait out. Ofcourse The thick consistence of the syrup did help a sore throat as well.
Faith healing = fake healing.
= business opportunity! 💵
Geez, more evidence that trolls in these threads need to get laid.
"trolls in these threads need to get laid."
Not going to happen...
The troll mentality is not conducive with the social skills required to meet with a woman, let alone get anywhere towards a relationship...
That's why they come here... no one in real life will have much to do with them...
We miss Tracy's clarity and depth.
I also appreciate her. May I ask, why point out that she's missed? Did she die or merely chose not to be a co-host on The Atheist Experience? If it's the latter, is the reason known?
Don't you mean Jennifer?😂
I prefer the "why aren't they in the childrens hospital curing kids with cancer?" argument against faith healers.
"Goddunit" is not an explanation.
Jesus rules
@@tylerdyson8410 What are the Jesus rules? Is that the rule you used to justify what happened at camp because as long as you say, "no homo", it's not gay? Or is it the rule where as long as you pick it up in under 5 seconds, you can eat that piece of pizza that fell on the floor?
Are there any other Jesus rules? I'm not sure if it includes, "what happens in the rectory, stays in the rectory."
Okay as a Christian a follower of Christ I have certain dos and don'ts the scripture says the body is the temple of God meaning we can't do anything with our bodies Jesus taught sexual purity which means either get married in a traditional human and wife married then have kids if they can of just abstain from all forms of sexual acts. When the scriptures uses the terms sexual immorality it's not just referring to homosexuality it also refers to fornication , adultery , sodomy , orgies , incest , beastiality ect.
@@tylerdyson8410 So those are the Jesus rules?
And that's the reason you are not doing those things? How many orgies did you turn down??? Just curious. You seem kind of obsessed with things that people don't need "Jesus rules" to keep them from doing.
A woman being attracted to a man was actually a curse that god placed on the woman for eating some forbidden fruit. So it seems she has no choice.
@@tylerdyson8410Got a question for ya.. would you be my slave under the rules of Exodus 21? I'll follow everything it says, you'll follow everything it says too of course.
Also do women have to shut up and follow their husband all the time? That's what the bible says 🤷
The big sadist in the sky is the largest failure of Mankind.
And now I’m shouting the line from the end of “Planet Of The Apes”……….
Zeus cured my toothache.
I love it when I ask Christians why they believe in God and they use the I prayed and my wife got better ect
As they have all spent their lives as Christians believing for decades prior to that event.
It had nothing to do with why they believed in God in the first place and if preying didn’t work. As happens to lots of Christians. They still carry on believing anyway. It’s just plain old confirmation bias.
Aron Ra is a great debater. But when he tries to guess the character or what his opponent will say, I think he sometimes gets a little hasty. Most, if not all, of these believers have been indoctrinated to believe these things, so you have to consider that as well.
So if I pray that my monster dump doesn’t clog the toilet, and it goes down smoothly, that means Jesus did it?
Did you get an erection while you were taking it?
Apparently Christians have an erection when they pray while taking a dump. Who knew? But good thing we have a toddler Christian here to tell us how it's done. Strange though what these Christian rituals are.😬
Forgot to mention the Preacher who claimed that a lady had her toes grow back. I offered $100k (real dollars, US, not mythical ones) for proof, and they didn't even contact me. I kept bothering them, nothing back from them. Guess the Church didn't need money.
No one ever prays for an amputated limb to regrow. Even believers know it is not gonna happen. Jesus never even did it in the bible stories.
Acupuncture helped my chronic pain quite a bit. I realized I just needed set time away from stress to physically relax. Meditation works just as well now, and I also go to float therapy -- sensory deprivation tanks are awesome.
You both beat the hell out of this guy.
Why did Jesus put the cancer in the body to begin with?
Yes. No. Wait. Please, Mr Theist, name another possible outcome. Just one.
Having god *actually* say yes, no, wait to any prayer rather than people making assumptions based on outcomes.
He made more money so he packed everything up and started faith healing sucker born every day
Lots of money to be made grifting the rubes
20:25 Reminds me of when my and brother were sick, grandma or mom would make us a “Hot lemon” (hot water, sugar, lemon juice) always made me feel better. I mentioned to my doctor once that I used that with a sore throat and she was like “well, the acidity in the lemon probably wouldn’t be too helpful … but sometimes childhood remedies do the trick even when it doesn’t make perfect sense.” 😂😭 but also citrus is good for some extra vitamins and such when you’re sick at least, right?
The sadly departed DR Michael Mosley did a great TV program on the placebo effect...well worth a watch, absolutely fascinating..! Rip Doc , unfortunately you left to soon man . 😢
Yes exactly to Tracy's point placebo's work quite well oftentimes because the mind is a powerful healer and especially pain reliever. And it's why psychiatric therapy can be so beneficial to people and using hypnosis and so believing your healed can have the same effect as psychiatrist and in this case the guy is a psychiatrist who also is a believer so mentally she feels better but it doesn't mean God was involved
Faith healers are what i consider as strong indication that God doesn't exist. Not because of what the faith healers do, but rather because of what their audience thinks is happening. Same with televangelists. Their audience experiences real feelings of the "holy spirit" speaking to them, which is literally impossible when the faith healer is a proven fraud. God would not let his followers fall for it, but they do, because they think their inner monologue is the holy spirit.
Fun fact: I was the guy that had Jon call into the show after an on going debate we were having. I didn’t think he would do it😂
It seems like if it were a god doing the healing, the healing would be 100%. In other words, not just feeling better, but rather completely symptom free for the rest of their lives. Because, you know, God and all.
This was hilarious 😂😂😂😂 ! @17:45
Who is the Healer? We want his name; we will ask for his data ourselves.
If you go to the shows notes, down near the bottom of the page is an option to show transcript.
You will find the info you want there.
It wouldn’t be a faith healing without faith. It would be something else.
What is it with the Jons/Johns? They seem to be exceptionally skilled at self-delusion.
The delusional affects of the desire to believe
i love it aron ra is getting a good buzz on.
I have had RA from the ages of 5-30 with fibro and OA. Then at 31 my RA went in remission and has stayed that way for the past six years now, and my doctors have no idea why. I think it might have been all the RA medicine I was on.
Whenever I try to hang out with my wife she would get pain that kept us from hanging out😂😂😂😂
Did Jon ever call back with data?
I think he did. Cause I heard that next year, the winner of the Novel prize in medicine is some guy who cured all the children in a cancer ward through faith healing.
I don't believe someone when they tell me they're a practical guy and a skeptic and then go they're a minister....does not compute
Yada Yada Yada Jeebus
No soup for you!
Anyone can do a thought experiment with any God or deity they choose at random and see how the mind creates a deep feeling of being in touch with that projection, all these Gods and saviours and gurus are projections of the self, notice that the person always gains something from it, a feeling of being saved, being special or protected , its all about them. They have surrendered themselves to Jesus but its still their ego creating this fantasy. If you want to see a giant ego pretending to be humble then look at Christian preachers online.
It certainly feels like if it wasn't for religion, as a whole, providing a convenient means of explaining away uncomfortable topics? Preventing or squelching questioning of said topics? We would probably be in a better place. Why cure/invent/understand when "Because Jesus/God." :(
How did our resident philosotard duo get so openly disgusting overnight? Mod really should step in.
They are no duo unless you want to grant duo-hood to schizophrenics
Emboldened by the recent success of Christian -fasc- Nationalists perhaps?
It's gotten really bad when you're hoping for a post from Libby or jaflenbond to lighten the mood...
@@canderson5098 I just love getting Little Miss Fifty Brain Cells all triggered, no matter which one of the fifty alts she uses.
He will eventually post something that will trigger the UA-cam censor bots to suspend his account, but you can bet your ass he'll blame us for it anyway.
It's honestly amazing that more of these healers aren't prosecuted for malpractice. I went to a place once in Sydney Australia, and became a customer on their books. 1 year later I got a letter saying they had been sued, had to close their doors, and were not allowed to practice any longer. It's been a while I can't remember the name of the place.
Harsh, but hey, stop lying.
Better using a magic 8 ball.
As a suppository!
Just as a sidenote.. A psycologist that threat PTSD is not that uncommon in general... And fibromyalgia can go into remission for even years, including threatments that reduce stress like what occurs with PTSD...
Cure one and you seemingly cure both for a while...
Did you give him a donation? Yes? You paid for his "services"
No? Someone else paid for his "services"
Again, if anybody heals people through a God, why isn't he helping people in hospital?.
Instead of making money out of it.
My nonsymptomatic tourettes was cured by prayer...prove me wrong
Actually, humans are not monkeys. Humans are great apes, along with chimpanzees and gorillas, and Bonobo‘s and orangutans. Monkeys and great apes are not the same. Let’s try to get the biology right and not perpetuate misunderstandings.
Monkeys and great apes are indeed not the same, but great apes are part of monkeys unless you explicitly exclude them. That exclusion is common, I will give you that, but not based on biological lineage. Actually, old-world monkeys are more closely related to humans than to new-world monkeys, so if you deem the old- and new-world monkeys to all be monkeys, then leaving out hominids is artificial.
Quote:
"Monkey is a common name that may refer to most mammals of the infraorder Simiiformes, also known as simians. Traditionally, all animals in the group now known as simians are counted as monkeys except the apes. Thus monkeys, in that sense, constitute an incomplete paraphyletic grouping; however, in the broader sense based on cladistics, apes (Hominoidea) are also included, making the terms monkeys and simians synonyms in regard to their scope."
all apes are monkeys, but not all monkeys are apes.
Love from a Suris and Vaush fan!
What is that drink they are drinking. I can see it's called Godless Heathen, and I want it :). But I can't find anything by googling :(
Man wrote the Bible it’s all I got to say everybody that believes in the Bible believes in some man writing a Bible not a God stories of what happened passed down generation to generation makes no sense. How brainwashed people are I know we need something to hang onto, but that’s ridiculous.
How did this guy eliminate the possibility that other treatments his wife took may have had their own "it's gonna be a process" time period and it just happened to take effect after the faith healer came into the picture?
I've seen faith healing fail right before my eyes too many times to take testimonies about successful faith healing seriously.
If I could just set my morals and human emotions aside, I could get rich in 6 months capitalizing on this kind of ignorance. 🛩️
Taking any investors? I need a quick investment……
@ sew the seeds of prosperity by sending a personal check 🤷♂️
Don't ask if he has done any research, because he doesn't. If he actually keeps detailed records of successes and fails, then there is a basis to do some/more research. If he actually is successful based on statistically significant results, but can't provide a physical mechanism to explain it, then perhaps there should be some research to determine what the physical mechanism may be. Having verified data without being able to explain what is happening isn't necessarily a fail, it is a reason to do research to find the explanation.
Of course, I have not heard of any faith healer who keeps those kinds of record. Remember the caller said that god answers in 3 ways. "Yes, Yes but it will take time, and it is exceedingly abundantly above what your are asking for." I am taking that last one as a deceptive way of saying no. Looking carefully at the statement is seems like it is saying that while what you are asking for can be done, the method god uses would give you more than what you are asking for. OR it is a confusing way of saying that you are asking for way too much.
Moms don’t heal with chicken soup. Moms heal by being moms.
Love Aron
I'm surprised Aron, you mentioned the Baha'u'llah as being the last prophet or messenger, after Jesus.
I would like to have your opinion about the Baha'i faith...
How much money did he spend on this healer?
As a quad, I'd be first in line if any of this faith healing junk had even a smidge of credibility.
Having spent more time than I want to recall in spinal wards and wheelchairs, I loved it when god-botherers try and preach in the wards.
They always get told to bugger off by the patients😁
A lot about being an atheist is explaining what proof and evidence is/ how the scientific method works/ critical thinking🤷 she literally spelled out how the scientific method works with regards to medicine and the caller still will not understand😮
This is old but a couple of points.
It seems to be glazed over, the human machine is amazing! Its ability to adapt and repair is truly amazing! More times than not, the simplest answer folks. 😊
Couldn’t let this slide, someone has no idea what cupping is, how it works or that it’s widely used in western medicine and physical therapy today, as well as dry needle. It’s physical manipulation, nothing magic about it.
Does anyone know if he submitted the data?
Its irritating,we all have lost someone we love. If there were some kind of great evidence for this,we would all believe. I want to see my family again,there is no good evidence for it,except the book and people who believe in the book.
If this ministry actually had the support of an all-powerful god...they wouldn't need money at all. Ever. The fact the ministry is taking money proves their god can't provide for them.
Isn’t that like evolution where things are changing all the time to get better or worse
I prayed to God to grow hair on a bold patch.
I doubt he even _got_ a spouse ...
(A weird thought (edit); Did he say this guy is still treating his wife (you know, like one does a psychologist)? If so, he _does_ have a spouse, but she might be cheating on him.... _with_ this miracle worker...)