Listened to this for a second time today while mowing. I thought Eric and Jim made great points about Hardee informing Meade before Hooker. Their points make sense. 1 - Would Meade refuse and resign? We know that’s not in Meade’s makeup- but Lincoln and Halleck may not have. I suspect there’s more to Reynolds turning down the command and I think generals like Reynolds and Slocum were telling Lincoln/Halleck- look- this is the guy you need. There was also a pretty good dust up between Hooker and Meade regarding Chancellorsville. Hooker stated that Meade had been in favor of withdrawal- which Meade certainly was not. But I think both showed grace with the transition and both realized the work ahead was of great importance. With regards to Meade’s late arrival to Gettysburg on Day 1- he had to remain in HQ position to receive and send orders/intelligence and coordinate. By sending Hancock- Meade trusted him to advise on the situation. However- that’s not to say he didn’t trust Howard. And there was a conversation about this after Meade did arrive. Replacing Doubleday did create an issue later on down the road for Meade. My understanding is that Reynolds did not receive the Pipe Creek Circular. But that on his body was a dispatch- in Meade’s handwriting- basically outlining the idea. Kent Masterson Brown ‘s book reveals this. But I think Meade also put trust in Reynolds judgement. I believe there is evidence of Meade being upset that Chief of Staff Butterfield didn’t get the PCC out in a more timely matter. I think Day 2 is Meade’s finest hour. The debate about Sickles movement will probably live on long after we are all gone. But Meade’s handling of it is remarkable. It is also during this time that his trusted mount Old Baldy is wounded for the last time- with Meade in the thick of it on Cemetery Ridge - looking across at the approaching Confederates- he straightened him self in the saddle and his staff are looking at him like WTF are you thinking? Meade was prepared to throw himself at them- fortunately Newton’s troops show up in the nick of time. Meade’s Council of War is another highlight. Unbeknownst to his commanders- Meade had already telegraphed Halleck- informing him the army was staying- and not knowing if he would take an offensive or defensive approach. Charlie Fennel had a great episode about Culps Hill on Day 3- remember that the Army of the Potomac starts the cannons rolling to drive the Confederates out of the lower entrenchments . Slocum had told Williams “we’ll drive them out at dawn”. My recollection of Meade ‘s HQ is that he did move to Powers Hill (Slocums HQ) after the house was hit and at the urging of staff - who said signal corps men would stay. But then Meade gets to Powers Hill and discovers that the signal men left and that’s when he returns to Cemetery Ridge area and then rides down to the Round Tops. Great episode! I’m glad Meade is getting the much deserved credit he deserves.
When Meade makes his prophetic statement to Gibbon on the night of the 2nd/3rd is he speaking to Gibbon the division commander or Gibbon the 2nd corps commander?
Meade was the man Who reluctantly took command The new sharp sword ⚔️ The blade of Lincoln’s hand He never blinked He never wavered Being on the defense Is what he favored Lee had won against them all His army could never fall Mead will be cautious, he exclaimed If he wants to fight here I am game Troops lined the fields They knew their bloody fate But at the end of the day It was Lee who was late Meade took the high ground The men dug in their heels Many fell dead and wounded But they never lost their zeal Attack after attack In great waves they came Each time Lee tried It was Meade who reigned 3 days of battle Victory was not in sight Meade won the struggle Lee retreated in the night Meade was the hero But there’s one little hitch Instead of congratulations All Lincoln did was bitch Yes I’m bored today lol 😂
@@addressinggettysburg well I made it up as I listened to the show and typed it out as a comment. I haven’t actually written it down on paper. But yea I created it. I’ve always been able to make up silly poems and stuff pretty easily. I posted it on Facebook comment so you would know who I actually am 👍🏻
Meade was not a wing commander at Chancellorsville, he was just in command of the 5th Corps. The XII, XI, and V Corps made up Hooker's flanking force but Slocum of the XII ranked Meade and was in nominal command.
T some thought..At Gettysburg Lee was finally in the position that most of Union oficers of the AOP had been in for quite a while. They were in hostile territory, officers were expected to cooperate and use discretion especially when sitations changed. Communication problems. Meade wasxthe kind of officer the AOP needed from the beginning. He was an excellent intelligent commander. Everyone says how awesome Lee was but was he really. Fredericksburg was not a great victory, it was lost before it started. Chancellorsville started good for Hooker but complacentsy (sic?) defeated him and Lee/Jackson got lucky. Antietam could have been a great victory if McClellan wouldd have been more aggressive AND if the moron at Harpers Ferry would have kept Jackson busy reinforcments would not have made it to Sharpsburg. The Union army was just as good as the Confederate army, they could have been better if they werenot led by morons.
Good points. The union ARMY was just as good, perhaps, but their leadership wasn’t. Lee took risks and was able to anticipate what his opponent might do and prepare for it. He also got lucky, but I always thought we make our own luck 9 lucky times out of 10. We seem to be in a period of adjustment these days as to how we rate these people. Lee needs to be trash, Meade propped up. They’re human beings all and they have strengths and weaknesses. I will put it like this, Lee, Meade, whoever, all did something I could never do. 99% of us couldn’t. So our opinions of them don’t really make a lick of difference.
42:34 I been a team sickels guy for 20+ years. And I think this kinda got me selling sickels now with that thought. How do you not go up there and dig in? I’m a combat infantry veteran. Any warrior from the days of spears and shields to rpgs and machine guns would have gone up there and dug in.
When Hooker submitted his resignation/demand Halleck and Lincoln tripped over each other reaching for the quill pen! Good episode! Enjoy Jim's shows immensely!
Regarding your discussion of "what was Sickles thinking", do you think he may have been seeing visions of Hazel Grove at Chancellorsville when he looked at the Peach Orchard?
That’s a common theory and it makes sense to me. But also if you look where he was assigned vs where he went, you can also see why he would rather be out along the Emmitsburg Road.
HAIL GENERAL MEADE!!!!
🙌
Listened to this for a second time today while mowing. I thought Eric and Jim made great points about Hardee informing Meade before Hooker. Their points make sense. 1 - Would Meade refuse and resign? We know that’s not in Meade’s makeup- but Lincoln and Halleck may not have. I suspect there’s more to Reynolds turning down the command and I think generals like Reynolds and Slocum were telling Lincoln/Halleck- look- this is the guy you need. There was also a pretty good dust up between Hooker and Meade regarding Chancellorsville. Hooker stated that Meade had been in favor of withdrawal- which Meade certainly was not. But I think both showed grace with the transition and both realized the work ahead was of great importance.
With regards to Meade’s late arrival to Gettysburg on Day 1- he had to remain in HQ position to receive and send orders/intelligence and coordinate. By sending Hancock- Meade trusted him to advise on the situation. However- that’s not to say he didn’t trust Howard. And there was a conversation about this after Meade did arrive. Replacing Doubleday did create an issue later on down the road for Meade. My understanding is that Reynolds did not receive the Pipe Creek Circular. But that on his body was a dispatch- in Meade’s handwriting- basically outlining the idea. Kent Masterson Brown ‘s book reveals this. But I think Meade also put trust in Reynolds judgement. I believe there is evidence of Meade being upset that Chief of Staff Butterfield didn’t get the PCC out in a more timely matter.
I think Day 2 is Meade’s finest hour. The debate about Sickles movement will probably live on long after we are all gone. But Meade’s handling of it is remarkable. It is also during this time that his trusted mount Old Baldy is wounded for the last time- with Meade in the thick of it on Cemetery Ridge - looking across at the approaching Confederates- he straightened him self in the saddle and his staff are looking at him like WTF are you thinking? Meade was prepared to throw himself at them- fortunately Newton’s troops show up in the nick of time.
Meade’s Council of War is another highlight. Unbeknownst to his commanders- Meade had already telegraphed Halleck- informing him the army was staying- and not knowing if he would take an offensive or defensive approach.
Charlie Fennel had a great episode about Culps Hill on Day 3- remember that the Army of the Potomac starts the cannons rolling to drive the Confederates out of the lower entrenchments . Slocum had told Williams “we’ll drive them out at dawn”.
My recollection of Meade ‘s HQ is that he did move to Powers Hill (Slocums HQ) after the house was hit and at the urging of staff - who said signal corps men would stay. But then Meade gets to Powers Hill and discovers that the signal men left and that’s when he returns to Cemetery Ridge area and then rides down to the Round Tops.
Great episode! I’m glad Meade is getting the much deserved credit he deserves.
Great stuff. Can't get enough. Well done. Oh, and Thank You.
Well, thank YOU
Thanks great talk!
Thank you
"To be fair, I'd be injured before the battle began." 🤣 Good one, Six Questions! This was a great interview!
Haha thank you
Awesome stuff. Just made my work day so much better :)
Glad to hear it!
When Meade makes his prophetic statement to Gibbon on the night of the 2nd/3rd is he speaking to Gibbon the division commander or Gibbon the 2nd corps commander?
Good question. I guess at that point it’s six of one, half a dozen of the other. No?
Meade was the man
Who reluctantly took command
The new sharp sword ⚔️
The blade of Lincoln’s hand
He never blinked
He never wavered
Being on the defense
Is what he favored
Lee had won against them all
His army could never fall
Mead will be cautious, he exclaimed
If he wants to fight here
I am game
Troops lined the fields
They knew their bloody fate
But at the end of the day
It was Lee who was late
Meade took the high ground
The men dug in their heels
Many fell dead and wounded
But they never lost their zeal
Attack after attack
In great waves they came
Each time Lee tried
It was Meade who reigned
3 days of battle
Victory was not in sight
Meade won the struggle
Lee retreated in the night
Meade was the hero
But there’s one little hitch
Instead of congratulations
All Lincoln did was bitch
Yes I’m bored today lol 😂
We need more 👍
@@natewilson111 I made that up while I was listening to the show. Glad you enjoyed 👍🏻
You wrote that? That’s pretty good!
@@addressinggettysburg well I made it up as I listened to the show and typed it out as a comment. I haven’t actually written it down on paper. But yea I created it. I’ve always been able to make up silly poems and stuff pretty easily. I posted it on Facebook comment so you would know who I actually am 👍🏻
I could have read on
Meade was not a wing commander at Chancellorsville, he was just in command of the 5th Corps. The XII, XI, and V Corps made up Hooker's flanking force but Slocum of the XII ranked Meade and was in nominal command.
👍
as much as i would want the south to win.. meade did a great job.....
What is it about owning another person that is so alluring?
T some thought..At Gettysburg Lee was finally in the position that most of Union oficers of the AOP had been in for quite a while. They were in hostile territory, officers were expected to cooperate and use discretion especially when sitations changed. Communication problems. Meade wasxthe kind of officer the AOP needed from the beginning. He was an excellent intelligent commander. Everyone says how awesome Lee was but was he really. Fredericksburg was not a great victory, it was lost before it started. Chancellorsville started good for Hooker but complacentsy (sic?) defeated him and Lee/Jackson got lucky. Antietam could have been a great victory if McClellan wouldd have been more aggressive AND if the moron at Harpers Ferry would have kept Jackson busy reinforcments would not have made it to Sharpsburg. The Union army was just as good as the Confederate army, they could have been better if they werenot led by morons.
Good points. The union ARMY was just as good, perhaps, but their leadership wasn’t. Lee took risks and was able to anticipate what his opponent might do and prepare for it. He also got lucky, but I always thought we make our own luck 9 lucky times out of 10. We seem to be in a period of adjustment these days as to how we rate these people. Lee needs to be trash, Meade propped up. They’re human beings all and they have strengths and weaknesses. I will put it like this, Lee, Meade, whoever, all did something I could never do. 99% of us couldn’t. So our opinions of them don’t really make a lick of difference.
42:34
I been a team sickels guy for 20+ years. And I think this kinda got me selling sickels now with that thought. How do you not go up there and dig in? I’m a combat infantry veteran.
Any warrior from the days of spears and shields to rpgs and machine guns would have gone up there and dug in.
That’s what we get for making politicians into generals, I guess lol
When Hooker submitted his resignation/demand Halleck and Lincoln tripped over each other reaching for the quill pen!
Good episode! Enjoy Jim's shows immensely!
Thank you
👏🇮🇲
👍
Regarding your discussion of "what was Sickles thinking", do you think he may have been seeing visions of Hazel Grove at Chancellorsville when he looked at the Peach Orchard?
That’s a common theory and it makes sense to me. But also if you look where he was assigned vs where he went, you can also see why he would rather be out along the Emmitsburg Road.