In a total rebuild situation would you spend the money and take the time for a complete rebuild on your current engine or go for a fully built crate engine?
I'd go for a crate motor from Harley, but for 2023 they have dropped the early 88ci. motors. Now they only offer 2007 and up. I guess not enough takers for them. Still, for less than $6000, I thought that was good.
I would swap the engine for an aftermarket assembly. Easier to do than the headaches of what you will find with the old engine plus the after market engines are powerhouse engines already
@GixxerFoo - Sir... always enjoy your content and delivery please keep it coming. If you are open to suggestions - you introduce topics like big bore upgrades/new crate motors cam chests rebuilds, etc... How about a video on break in rather its after new cam chest internals or a big bore install, or just a crate motor install? Thanks for the consideration! Cheers - Tiger
I beat on my 96" S&S for almost 20 years. That thing never once puffed any smoke, burned any oil, or failed in any way. Amazing engine. It was also faster than anything I ever encountered from the mid 90's to around '99.
I'm in the middle of a rebuild for my Twin Cam and yes, It would be much cheaper to buy a new crate motor. But then I'd have something that someone else built. I've always felt that half the fun of owning these things is working on them. Love your videos. Thanks for the info.
Yeah I am the same on that, I feel much better doing it myself I know exactly what's going in my engine, I guess I am fortunate and inclined enough to do it
Cleveland, OH. 131 dealer installed upgrade total cost was $8,200. It should be noted that this final, out the door price, was after they gave a 15% parts & labor discount!
Wow that's up there quite a bit! I was at the parts counter at my local dealer, one of the few small one owner dealers left out there. A guy was looking at a Twin Cam stage 4 and the parts manager was completely honest with him, it would cost just about the same as if he went with a 120R or ST screamin eagle crate engine. He ended up getting the ST version with an S&S cam.
Great video! About a year ago my 08 flhtc motor needed doing. I opted for the Harley 110 SE. Motor was about 4k+ labor. Came to about 8k but that was cams, clutches, primary chains alternator etc. Also new drive belt, bushings every where. So I basically have a new 08 with a 110 for about 8k. Worked for me.
Rebuilt my 103, crank up with an S&S flywheel, Timken bearings, new cams (s&s 585), pusrods/lifters, chain, and tensioners, cylinders bored 10 over with Carillo 10.5:1 pistons, and heads intake ported with valves and seals cut... out the door with labor 4,200 ... I'm happy with it.
Well, I've built/rebuilt quite a few motors myself. The selection of high-quality, high performace components has never been better! Especially for the older/vintage/classic motors like Evos, Shovels, Pans, Knucks and Flatties! However, the skill and experience to put them all together properly is rapidly disappearing!
Harley long block program is really the balls financially. I've done it all ways, the only thing with crate is basically reinstalling a stock engine. Bravo for your advise to folks. great site. Love it, watch all your videos
Great advice. Perfect solution especially for the rider that gets a great deal on a high milage bike and doesn't plan on putting a lot of miles on the bike. Or myself, with lots of sentimental value in my old 2001 Heritage but, at 71 years old , I realize the long high speed trips are behind me. Plus if the builder of your original engine makes a mistake during reassembly you can be sure of a legal battle before it is put right. Just get the new engine at 25 to 30 percent the cost of a new machine. Heck, I don't even insure my old Harley for theft anymore. That saves a ton of money every year.
Yeah, depends what one needs out of a warranty, there's different kinds. Some just cover labor, some parts, most any warranty or insurance will be an arguement and a flurry of emails. Customer service is dead. I agree, less headaches if its a bought crate motor, but tbh i don' t really expect them to be more reliable than a rebuilt motor. All depends on the quality of the monkey and the wrench. Have fun riding.
I learned from another channel that S&S's warranty only covers parts. So they may replace a pair of $30 base gaskets under warranty, but the owner is still on the hook for the $800 in labor. Just something to consider........
I keep telling myself when I blow my engine that I'll just put a crate engine back in it as it's still cheaper than buying another bike... And more than likely it will be the S&S... Awesome video brother 👊🏽😎
It's certainly easier from the standpoint of labor to just pull the old motor out and put the new motor in! You can be done in matter of hours vs the time taken to tear down and go through an old motor.
I'm rebuilding the 80" Evo from the FXR I bought before the pandemic, just doing a 96" kit on it. Right around that time I also bought an unfinished rigid project bike that I found on CL and it came with a brand new 124" S&S Evo, Baker 6spd with an upside down drum. For 9k I got all that plus a 2" under WG with Kennedy triple trees, PM 6 piston dual disc on it, tins, nacelle and a Paughco repro straightleg Pan frame. I stuffed the motor and trans in the FXR with a few mods and it's an absolute rocket ship, lol. I'll keep the 96" maybe for the rigid, but that 124" is my newest bad habit.
I just watched a video of a guy who bought an s&S motor and said they do not pay for labor if anything goes wrong they will replace parts but as far as labor it’s on you. Which sounds like a horrible warranty. He had a issues after 1,000 miles and the replacement parts were $30. The labor was $800.
Only problem Mine had was user error, and didn’t listen to the forums about changing lifters and push rods every other season, decided to test my luck and it bit me. 20 000 miles on it. Was fun while it lasted.
After My 2000 Heritage lunched it's engine, I invested the money and got a used 103" SE2 with low mileage for $2500 and it was the best move I could have made for the $$. I took the S&S cam plate and other performance parts from the 88" that I installed and came up with a rock solid build and a leather bagger that is a real sleeper. Since I've been a HD mechanic for 38 years I am my own cheapest labor and if something goes wrong, I have no one to blame but my self. Love your channel bro, Keep the great video's coming.
Well said. I have 5k into my evo and still have original crank(never split the cases) 😢 looking back I should've went with a crate motor 111 or 113 and put my 66k mile original motor up
wow! I got 2 evo's softails, 25k & 8k miles. I don't ride them hard, mostly I'm sitting in the 40's-60s mph. I hope they won't need attention at 66k miles. I agree with your comment about getting the crate built up motor.
My 120r had failed me this past spring, I had priced out the s&s crate, and it was only a few more dollars to send it to New York to Hillside, can’t wait for the spring.
If you are doing the build yourself, the benefit is much more than the financial savings. This assumes you have the tools and know what and how to check tolerances once you start cracking covers and cases open. This is where relationships can really come into play. As a toolmaker I have made custom parts in exchange for skilled labor. It's a win-win for both. The only thing that might screw that up is lack of integrity from either party if there are issues.
From whatvi have heard s&s warranty only covers parts. Watched a video of a guy that bought the 80in evo and installed by an s&s authorized dealer. 3 months later the base gasket started leaking and it cost him 900 to have it fixed. I have read lots of good things about ultima in the last few years
Another thing to think about is a transmission I had a 2014 Street Glide with 80,000 mi , I put a 131 crate engine in it and it tore apart the transmission with the Xtra power.
I wonder if they offer a get back on the road package for a TC88? Basically a stock engine with all of the factory issues fixed. A bulletproof crank with Lefty Timken and a gear drive cam in an otherwise stock rebuild. Maybe throw in some rocker lockers.
I would like to swap a Buell Halcion engine in my 2008 Ulysess.. I have read it is 65# lighter than the Thunderstorm engine and that's going from 103 HP to 185 HP
I replaced my stock evo from the late 80's due to some damage that was done to it in a wreck that I never knew about..... I bought an S&S Evo and it runs so good.... Was about 4300 at the time and probably about the same cost of a rebuild plus it's a better quality engine overall so.... I'm happy with it. I have it in an 81 frame that was chopped so it could fit an Evo.
Great content again thanks just had my 01 cvo rebuilt new Keith black pistons s&s crank all new bearings chains already had screamin eagle cam chest 4,200 $ crank run out gave out 28,000 miles now hope lasts
The only Harley engine I have ever rebuilt was a K Model and that was with the help of a master Harley-Davidson mechanic. This included renewing the bottom end truing the wheels etc. Fast forward many years to when I was working for a H-D dealership and asked the service manager if that kind of rebuild were even possible today. He said "no, we just buy crank and rod assemblies.
What you should do is a video of how reliable a ultima is or how unreliable they are cause I have been looking at one for a little bit but I keep getting told to leave it on the shelf
The problem with the Ultima engines is that some people have little to no issues and some have nothing but issues all the way up until the day they pull it back out of their bike and put something else in. It kinda feels like a crap shoot to me.
If anybody has a twin cam 88 and it hasn't grenaded on you yet go immediately and have the crank pinion checked. They are known to get way out of balance and destroy your oil pump sending fragments of metal all inside the lower end of your motor. It cost me about 2k (from an individual) to have it rebuilt and that was just back to stock specs. Also have the cam tensioners changed to roller bearings instead of those orange plastic pieces.
Yea that's probably correct. Why do you think Harley changed the spec on crank run out . Most want even know it till it fails , wiped out oil pump , cam plate. Or a lifters failed and sends metal through the system
@@toddbaa you have got one of the better made ones. The guy that worked on mine said he has rebuilt numerous twin cam 88s with that same problem. The runout is so far off it destroys the oil pump. There is another video that gixerfoo has acknowledged that this is an issue with TC88 engines.
I got two bikes with SS engines . I would not want a stock Harley engines as I got bit by taking a chance and I knew better and bought a used Street Glide from a Harley Dealer that had it checked out ready to go deal . Lol out the door . Crank shaft failed in less than a 1000 miles . No way unless things have changed on the crank shaft builds and the lifters failures . The sumping I assume is under control on the m8 ..Do what you want I not interested..
Thank you for this video. I´m planning to "renew" the engine of my old 1993 Evo FLHS within the next months. And I was asking myself what would be the best for the old lady to have more power, more torque, less issues (no, there were not many, it´s an Evo!) and a sort of warranty for the next years and kilometers... I more and more come to the decision not to take an upgrade but a hole new engine. Seems to make more sense as I own the bike for 30 years now and I want to keep my old tourer as long as I can ride. I also have a 2003 FXDWG and a 2019 FLSB, so the FLHS-upgrade can take a while.
The hourly rate for labor at my local Harley dealership has jumped from 109 a year and a half ago, plus tax on the total to 135 per hour. For example, a straight SE stage 2 torque cam kit installed and dyno was 1163.64 after everything. Last summer. Not including the 530 dollars in parts. I don’t even want to guess what parts and labor and taxes would be to do stage 3 . I am just going to run this one this way, and in a couple years if I am still wanting to go bigger I will just put a new motor in it of the right size, with the warranty. Doing it piecemeal is going to cost a lot more than just replacing the whole motor.
put it this way I built my first m8 114 into a 128 were talking just engines here no exhaust no dyno tune just engine for 2 grand bike made 130 hp 155 torque so its a lot cheaper to build then It is to buy the key is doing the work yourself.
My dad's best friend, who's like family, has built Harley engines for 40 years. He built and races his own nitro Harley. Just so you know my dad and the people I'm referring to have ridden in the same MC for 53 years. My dad helped start the MC when he returned from Vietnam. So the club in the beginning consisted pretty much of Nam vets. I've seen many of them pass over the years but they all are hardcore old school bikers. One guy in particular schooled many of them about Harleys. He was a genius. He actually built the engine for the Detroit Brothers on an episode of Biker Build Off and actually appeared in it. I guess I need to make my point. Point being those guys know more things to do to improve horsepower and longevity than 90% of the people on the planet. Quick example. Remember all the aftermarket bikes that flooded the market in the 90s and early 2000s? I knew someone who bought a Big Dog with a 113CI S&S engine. My buddy rebuilt a 80CI Evo out of an FXR. It was 89" when he was done. I watched those two bikes line up and that 89" FXR just smoke that Big Dog by 3 bike lengths. The long winded moral to the story is that it may all look good on paper but not all engines and engine builders are the same. He took my 67 Shovelhead and made it a 88" stroker. He dual plugged the heads, installed a Dynatek single fire ignition, camshaft, exhaust and I'm running a S&S Super B carb. The rebuild was done almost 30 years ago and it's still running strong. I'll rebuild over a crate motor any day
Would go an s&s create motor for my fxsts but i do want some compression (9:1comp max) and considering a stroker crank for the highway miles i want this bike to do... s&s do not offer this and no the s&s "stock" 80ci does not do it for me and i need the bike to run on low grade fuel for when i go out sticks way here in Australia...so rebuild with as much s&s parts as possible thanks
20+ years ago my buddy bought a Merch engine (Canadian I believe) and put it in his bike, haven't seen him for a few years as he moved out of state but last I heard it was still running strong. I don't know if they're still in business or not.
I have a 98 Evo. It would be worth rebuilding when the time comes to do that but it lacks horsepower and the gains would be minimal. I've considered buying a complete engine for it but the cost is also prohibitive. Kind of stuck between a rock and a hard spot unless I abandon the Evo altogether and go with a twin cam that will give me more horsepower in a newer bike. Out of the three options I may go with getting a newer used bike and upgrading the newer twin cam. If that wasn't cost effective then I would rebuild my Evo or sell it as is. Tough choices when the cost of living is going up so fast...
If you abandon that Evo because it needs engine work wherever you are in the USA I will come and pick up that motorcycle and I will give it a good home and fix it. Evils are simple to work on and lasts forever. I don't know why every time I say Evo the phone translates that as evil. But I'd still rather have an evil motorcycles and a twin cam or Milwaukee. Evil is good.
@@frankmarkovcijr5459 right now it's in great shape with less than 27k on it. I've done the lifters, lifter blocks, the pushrods, compensator, clutch pack, primary chain, and carb kit on it. I was thinking once it got around 35k I would change the cam bearing, seal, cam, and oil pump to high flow pump. The base gaskets, head gaskets, rockers, springs, valves, pistons, and rings around 55k-60k. Then crack the cases and redo the crank at 75k. Maybe wait on some of the upper end till I tore down completely. I don't know yet. I really don't want to do the cylinders first but it may be necessary if the base gaskets start to leak on me. I built a 48 Pan back in 90-91 but I didn't get to ride it much because it got snatched by 3 guys in a national mc I won't mention. I'll just say they were surprised to see me afterwards but it was too late to save the Pan. I love the Evo but it's a slug compared to more modern stuff. Twin cams aren't my fave but I can fix one up if needed. Who knows I may let it go if I find the right deal.
@@mikaldene7146 I am surprised that at only 27,000 miles you have done so much work to that bike so far I would not wait to upgrade the cam bearing if the camp bearing fails it will be much more expensive that if you replace it. Cheap Ina bearing is the only problem with the Evo basically. The lifter should be replaced every 40,000 miles but you should have had no problems with the primary drive or clutch. I know guys with hundreds of thousands of miles on your evos and they've done very little to them other than lifters. The base gaskets B legal little bit but it's not really a big deal all real motorcycles leak a little bit of oil
@@frankmarkovcijr5459 I bought it used from a guy who wasn't really a rider and he burned up the clutch, compensator rattled and the chain had wear because he never adjusted it. The lifters, pushrods, and blocks were changed because a dealership left the lifters block screws un-torqued when they inspected the cam. They almost fell out. Fortunately they hadn't done any damage to the cam but it was a mess so I swapped them out to keep from losing the lifters bearings into the crankcase and eating the motor. Like I was saying before, mostly preventive steps to avoid a big headache later.
@@mikaldene7146 thank you for responding that clears up why so much stuff has to be done to the primary with so little mileage and I really don't understand that because it is really so easy to adjust the primary chain. Of course I have an evolution Sportster so it might be slightly different than a big twin but still a little bit of adjustment you know goes a long way. With the Evolution motor having pushrods motor clearances have to be much tighter. Cylinders can be too tall or Too Short there is not much clearance with pushrod so you have to have much greater quality control with a chain drive the chain takes up the slack so you can have cylinders with a chain drive that you could not have with a push rod. This enabled Harley-Davidson to pump out 30000 more motorcycles a year. It is a shame they did not continue the Evo in production because the twin cam and the milwaukee-eight have a shopping list of defects that come straight from the factory and all anything anybody says about the Evo is that the base gaskets sometimes leak. In my Ural owners manual when it talks about oil seepage on the outside of the engine they show you the production Machinery that takes from World War 1 with Indy cast-iron it would say USA 1916. They are not oil type in the way a BMW or Japanese bike is but they are no worse than a British motorcycle so you just have to take it to the carwash a little more often. People used to badmouth British motorcycles quite a bit about them being unreliable and vibrating too much and most of what would occur was because of owner negligence. If something fell off because they did not tighten the nuts and bolts they would pitch about the bike. If you do not keep the timing straight and the point properly adjusted and you like to run the bike at Full Throttle you end up holding a piston and then you blame the bright company instead of your own negligence. From your experience it shows that even an engine as reliable as Evolution Big twin if you neglect it it will suffer as any other mechanical device will. One thing I like about my Sportster is all I do is change the oil and filter and tires. It have four hundred thousand miles on it at his almost 25 years old. I do replace a little bearing in the clutch that goes out every 50 or 60 thousand miles and replace the alternator at 250,000 miles when the bike was 20 years old. I am on my third drive belt. Ironically I bought my Sportster so I would have a multitude of choices to take it to when I would need mechanical work but it has been phenomenally reliable and dependable more than even my BMWs or my Japanese motorcycles. With the Gear Drive in the engine like in my Sportster or my Triumph or my BSA Twins and singles I do not have to worry about the chain breaking and destroying the engine which happened to all of my Honda motorcycles. When my CX500 was 10 years old with 250,000 miles on her to cam chain broke and snapped the camshaft and two pieces. T o r e right through the water pump the more we opened up the engine the more damage we found. When a cam chain breaks your Pistons kiss the valves and your engine is toast. My Sportster may not have been as technically Advanced as my Honda CX500 but it has outlasted the high-tech Jap bike two-and-a-half times over. I have a weird collection of motorcycles just like my dogs both are Strays that come my way and I give them both a forever home. I believe you will have good luck with your Evo in the future I myself have had motorcycles damaged by so-called mechanics and then they have the nerve to charge you for damaging your motorcycle isn't that a crock of shit.
I've kept a fresh Evo on the bench for the past 5yrs because my 97 WideGlide is getting kinda long in the tooth at 42,000 miles. I keep waiting, and waiting, and waiting........
if you get a create engine you have a stock engine you can sell. So if you're going to put a 131 or 135 in your new bike you will have a new HD engine you can sell. That might make the crate motor cheaper.
i just bought a new 131 crate. Installed my self. CR515 cam SE cam plate and oil pump Fueling race lifters. found out HD sent it out with .145" and .114"of preload on the lifters. So ordered new 7/16" .165 wall double clearanced cut solid pushrods from Trend Performance. At the tuners now.
I would like to replace my 1203 CC Thunderstorm engine in my 2008 Buell Ulyesses with a 1190 Halicon engine .. I have read it is 65# less .. Going from 103 HP to 185 HP
The ultima motors are great motors Iv used em in all my custom Builds and they barley have any problems at all. He was wrong tho the parts are made over seas that’s why sometimes they won’t have cranks for there big inch motors
I rebuilt a shovelhead or sorry had it done but the guy who did the cylinders used sleeves instead of using S&S and at only 500 miles the sleeve in the front cylinder moved and ruined piston rings and really the front cylinder and then I had to order proper barrels.
As a guy who had his engine built into a performance engine (an S&S 124” Hot Set Up from my 103B)…. I would highly recommend buying the crate engine direct from S&S or whatever supplier. My bike went back to a supposedly “reputable” indy shop 3 times due to who-knows-what. The indy blamed faulty parts from S&S but they ended up tearing out the entire top end 4 times! The bike was down for over a year and a half! It sounded like absolute shit the first time I took it home. I knew it was buggered as I left the parking lot so I took it back. They blamed cross-hatching on the cylinder walls. 2nd time they blamed the cam-plate and oil pump…. I don’t even remember the 3rd time. I have some pistons and cams I want thrown in there but I have zero trust for indy shops or dealerships around here.
That's sad and l hate hearing you got yanked around by a shop. Places like that give good indy shops a bad name. I had a buddy that got an S&S crate and had a authorized indy dealer install it. Motor blew up, no fault on the shop but S&S send a brand new one and covered the labor. They wanted that old one back and to talk to him, they were truly interested in what failed and why on that motor. They took it personally that it failed.
@@GixxerFoo S&S obliged my Indy as well with the supposedly faulty parts. Regardless of whether mine was a bad batch of parts or not…. if I could tell the bike wasn’t running right, they definitely shoulda caught it. I also don’t believe that on 3 occasions it was S&S’s fault. Sounded pretty fishy to me. Had it of been a crate engine, there would be no doubt who was at fault.
I've owned my '98 EVO since 2001. I love that bike. I always said that once it hit 100k I'll swap it out for a S&S 96. Well once I hit 100kS&S made a V111 so I went with it instead. Not a stroker but gobs of torque. Plus then I have a spare engine to build a bar hopper with - it's still sitting in the crate the new engine came in. Normally I do my own wrenching. If a certified S&S dealer installs it the warranty doubles to two years. So that's what I did. After 5k on the new engine it developed a knock. Crank bearing issue. S&S paid for the removal and installation of the engine and fixed the problem. So far the engine has30k on it and runs like a jack rabbit on adrenaline and crack and a hot MtDew. It's fast, smooth and reliable. Buries the speedo on the entrance ramp to the freeway. I don't buy a new bike when the ash tray gets full. I modify what I have to upgrade to higher standards. I can appreciate those who do buy often, it keeps the MoCo in business. 6 speed gearset was around $1k doing it myself. About 2 new bike payments. This only works if you can do a lot of your own work though. Good video with a lot of great points.
My question is about the engine serial number. To register both my Harleys with the state of Minnesota I had to have the frame serial number and the engine serial number. So now, if I replace the engine that came with the bike, that is listed on the title, with a different numbered engine, what steps do I have to go through to change the title? If you build a bike you have to save all the receipts for every part of the bike, then you have to buy a bond for the bike so you can insure it, and license it.
The Harley engines never have camplate , oil pump,TIMKEN bearings or a trued flywheel to the level of a S&S. S&S just has a higher degree of quality that you can never get from Harley-Davidson.
If my Bike blows up , I will be going with a New Crate engine . after 4 Builds to 95 to 100 HP out of a EVO . I can buy a Ultima 120 CI for the price of a DIY build . The price of everything had went up so high its best to go After market .
I blew up my s&s 107 on my American iron horse at 1:30 in the morning 45 miles from home 😢.. I'm in the middle of swapping it out for an Ultima 120.. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
If you have the money. It is best to do a complete motor job crankshaft up. Just like you said, throwing a new top end on an old bottom end is scary. Then if you go the new crate engine. You're not going to have a numbers matching motorcycle. If that is something that bothers you. Plus you'll need a new speedometer. Well you don't really but it's something to think about. Plus the rest of your motorcycle is old and your transmission is old and beat up too. You might as well just get a new bike with an extended warranty and save yourself all the headaches.
I’d agree to some degree. First, always take advantage of sweat equity. I’m heading to the recycler yard IRL to find a cherry SE tc96 for my 2003 FLHTCUI. I got robbed of my parts left in the barn unlocked. Standing here with only the OEM long block for my bike. My plan, is to find at the recycler: SE Heads, SE Cast Aluminum Intake, SE TBI with SE Injectors, HD Jugs, SE Air Cleaner, Manual Release Valves, SE Chest Plate, SE Cams even though...meh. Other option if time, money, convenience don't seem eazy breezy; find a nice, clean TC96 with good compression, slap it in the ass and make it cry. I can 99.999% that one of these two options will be cheaper than buying a crate motor, and if I pick it I will know it will fly to Reno and back or Tijuana and back no problem. It comes down to what options you have available and how much time aka money you have lying around. Food for thought. Much respect, keep doing your thing I love your channel.
Could you please do a video on mount Rushmore 103 twin cam ho engine swop option please and thanks. S&S, SE, & others. Love your indepth video you due for us!
Yeah it's still pressed just like all the other cranks, but they do use the heavy duty roller bearings in the bottom end. That does help quite a bit, not as good as the Timken though.
Excellent info unfortunately and fortunately I’ve done this on my evo and M8. The M8 was because of a failure. The evo was my choice after running numbers to rebuild.
Just about any aftermarket crate motor from S&S will fit, Screamin Eagle 120 ST or R, Ultima has twin cam that would fit in there as well. The Ultima is about the only other aftermarket twin cam other than S&S or Jims out there.
It won't just bolt right in, I believe there are some adapter kits available though. The 88's had external oil lines and the 103's are internal between the engine and transmission. The mounting points are a little different since they redesigned the touring frames around 2009-2010.
Registering and insuring a bike after a engine swap isn't too bad since in most cases you go with the vin number on the frame. But with a crate motor swap I highly suggest keeping all your receipts and documentation. I would even go as far as to keep a copy of the MSO that came with the engine on the bike just in the event you're stopped by the cops and they want to fish.
Several factors here as it's not a direct bolt in, with the time and investment it would take to put a 103 from a newer bike in a 2000 model you'd be better off hopping up your 88. Couple routes to go here, you could bolt on an S&S 100 inch kit or rebuild your 88 from the bottom up with a stroker crank and a 95 inch bolt on kit. That would get you to a 103, but a 100 inch kit with a cam swap would leave a 103 in the dust.
Good question, I know for sure they are still remanufacturing Twin Cams. The website doesn't list all the parts and accessories available. I haven't checked on Twin Cam crates in a while, I'll check into that myself.
You want to talk money 💰? I’m building a 108 shovelhead from new cases , jugs , heads , oil pump rocker boxes & almost impossible to find 4.75 flywheels. Ugh what a gluten for punishment I am 😂
@@TS-iq2hv Thanks but I have them now but had a hard time getting them , S&S won’t make them anymore had to get the wheels only from truer & Osborne And have them built with Jim’s & S&S parts
Harley-Davidson in the Twin Cam they make the 120 ST, and the 120R. The ST has a milder cam and comes with a throttle body, it's "street legal". The 120R has a more aggressive cam and you have to buy your own throttle body, supposed to be for racing so you choose what induction sytem you want. But most guys go the R route as they are the same price and run it on the street.
Sir, could you invest in a clip on microphone or put a regular mic close to you? It's really hard to hear you across the room and it seems you're farther away than in your older videos. Thank you sir for your invaluable information, keep up the good work!
I have a 2003 88ci Dyna Wide Glide anniversary edition and would like to go all out and get a new crate engine installed. Can the new 135ci Screamin' Eagle stage 4 be installed in it? If there is no way to do that one then what is the highest performing engine that one could buy to install in it?
In a total rebuild situation would you spend the money and take the time for a complete rebuild on your current engine or go for a fully built crate engine?
I'd go for a crate motor from Harley, but for 2023 they have dropped the early 88ci. motors. Now they only offer 2007 and up. I guess not enough takers for them. Still, for less than $6000, I thought that was good.
I would swap the engine for an aftermarket assembly. Easier to do than the headaches of what you will find with the old engine plus the after market engines are powerhouse engines already
had my 05, 95 big bore totally rebuilt to a 103.
On my 2012 FatBob 103 i would pay the 7k and get the S@S T111 crate motor....No mess....no fuss...
@GixxerFoo - Sir... always enjoy your content and delivery please keep it coming. If you are open to suggestions - you introduce topics like big bore upgrades/new crate motors cam chests rebuilds, etc... How about a video on break in rather its after new cam chest internals or a big bore install, or just a crate motor install? Thanks for the consideration! Cheers - Tiger
I beat on my 96" S&S for almost 20 years. That thing never once puffed any smoke, burned any oil, or failed in any way. Amazing engine. It was also faster than anything I ever encountered from the mid 90's to around '99.
I'm in the middle of a rebuild for my Twin Cam and yes, It would be much cheaper to buy a new crate motor. But then I'd have something that someone else built. I've always felt that half the fun of owning these things is working on them. Love your videos. Thanks for the info.
Same
Yeah I am the same on that, I feel much better doing it myself I know exactly what's going in my engine, I guess I am fortunate and inclined enough to do it
@Peter Angles Brand New Long Block cost about that. It’s a sliding scale. Do you salvage a bottom end, are you renewing the block and gaskets, etc.
@Peter Angles Harley’s are a labor of love. I suppose my IQ is lower than average but luckily I’m rich so I guess I can toil with junky Harley motors
Cleveland, OH. 131 dealer installed upgrade total cost was $8,200. It should be noted that this final, out the door price, was after they gave a 15% parts & labor discount!
Wow that's up there quite a bit! I was at the parts counter at my local dealer, one of the few small one owner dealers left out there. A guy was looking at a Twin Cam stage 4 and the parts manager was completely honest with him, it would cost just about the same as if he went with a 120R or ST screamin eagle crate engine. He ended up getting the ST version with an S&S cam.
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I just had my 96 twin cam built to a 107 with stage 5 pushing 125 hp 134 torque ,very happy with the outcome .
What kit and can you use
Great video!
About a year ago my 08 flhtc motor needed doing. I opted for the Harley 110 SE. Motor was about 4k+ labor. Came to about 8k but that was cams, clutches, primary chains alternator etc. Also new drive belt, bushings every where. So I basically have a new 08 with a 110 for about 8k. Worked for me.
Rebuilt my 103, crank up with an S&S flywheel, Timken bearings, new cams (s&s 585), pusrods/lifters, chain, and tensioners, cylinders bored 10 over with Carillo 10.5:1 pistons, and heads intake ported with valves and seals cut... out the door with labor 4,200 ... I'm happy with it.
I'm calling b******* parts alone because that
Well, I've built/rebuilt quite a few motors myself. The selection of high-quality, high performace components has never been better! Especially for the older/vintage/classic motors like Evos, Shovels, Pans, Knucks and Flatties!
However, the skill and experience to put them all together properly is rapidly disappearing!
Harley long block program is really the balls financially. I've done it all ways, the only thing with crate is basically reinstalling a stock engine. Bravo for your advise to folks. great site. Love it, watch all your videos
I’m a wrench bender only starting to work on Harleys now that I own one. Some of the most sobering info I’ve heard is right here. Thank you.
Great advice. Perfect solution especially for the rider that gets a great deal on a high milage bike and doesn't plan on putting a lot of miles on the bike. Or myself, with lots of sentimental value in my old 2001 Heritage but, at 71 years old , I realize the long high speed trips are behind me. Plus if the builder of your original engine makes a mistake during reassembly you can be sure of a legal battle before it is put right. Just get the new engine at 25 to 30 percent the cost of a new machine. Heck, I don't even insure my old Harley for theft anymore. That saves a ton of money every year.
Yeah, depends what one needs out of a warranty, there's different kinds. Some just cover labor, some parts, most any warranty or insurance will be an arguement and a flurry of emails. Customer service is dead. I agree, less headaches if its a bought crate motor, but tbh i don' t really expect them to be more reliable than a rebuilt motor. All depends on the quality of the monkey and the wrench. Have fun riding.
I learned from another channel that S&S's warranty only covers parts. So they may replace a pair of $30 base gaskets under warranty, but the owner is still on the hook for the $800 in labor. Just something to consider........
I keep telling myself when I blow my engine that I'll just put a crate engine back in it as it's still cheaper than buying another bike... And more than likely it will be the S&S... Awesome video brother 👊🏽😎
Thank you! I appreciate the support!
It's certainly easier from the standpoint of labor to just pull the old motor out and put the new motor in! You can be done in matter of hours vs the time taken to tear down and go through an old motor.
I already have a warranty because I own a '99 Heritage Springer last year evolution motor it's bulletproof. She rides like a dream and I can fix it.
I'm rebuilding the 80" Evo from the FXR I bought before the pandemic, just doing a 96" kit on it. Right around that time I also bought an unfinished rigid project bike that I found on CL and it came with a brand new 124" S&S Evo, Baker 6spd with an upside down drum. For 9k I got all that plus a 2" under WG with Kennedy triple trees, PM 6 piston dual disc on it, tins, nacelle and a Paughco repro straightleg Pan frame. I stuffed the motor and trans in the FXR with a few mods and it's an absolute rocket ship, lol. I'll keep the 96" maybe for the rigid, but that 124" is my newest bad habit.
I just watched a video of a guy who bought an s&S motor and said they do not pay for labor if anything goes wrong they will replace parts but as far as labor it’s on you. Which sounds like a horrible warranty. He had a issues after 1,000 miles and the replacement parts were $30. The labor was $800.
Harley-Davidson use to offer a 120 twin cam crate motor for both race and street applications. I wonder if any of those are still around.
Only problem Mine had was user error, and didn’t listen to the forums about changing lifters and push rods every other season, decided to test my luck and it bit me. 20 000 miles on it. Was fun while it lasted.
What motor are talking about? Im about to by a 120 twin cam and live in Fl 20000 miles wont take long
After My 2000 Heritage lunched it's engine, I invested the money and got a used 103" SE2 with low mileage for $2500 and it was the best move I could have made for the $$. I took the S&S cam plate and other performance parts from the 88" that I installed and came up with a rock solid build and a leather bagger that is a real sleeper. Since I've been a HD mechanic for 38 years I am my own cheapest labor and if something goes wrong, I have no one to blame but my self. Love your channel bro, Keep the great video's coming.
I have an Ultima I bought in 2008. Still runs strong.
Well said. I have 5k into my evo and still have original crank(never split the cases) 😢 looking back I should've went with a crate motor 111 or 113 and put my 66k mile original motor up
wow! I got 2 evo's softails, 25k & 8k miles. I don't ride them hard, mostly I'm sitting in the 40's-60s mph. I hope they won't need attention at 66k miles. I agree with your comment about getting the crate built up motor.
My 120r had failed me this past spring, I had priced out the s&s crate, and it was only a few more dollars to send it to New York to Hillside, can’t wait for the spring.
If you are doing the build yourself, the benefit is much more than the financial savings. This assumes you have the tools and know what and how to check tolerances once you start cracking covers and cases open. This is where relationships can really come into play. As a toolmaker I have made custom parts in exchange for skilled labor. It's a win-win for both. The only thing that might screw that up is lack of integrity from either party if there are issues.
I am not so mechanically inclined. My best option is probably paying someone to do it.
From whatvi have heard s&s warranty only covers parts. Watched a video of a guy that bought the 80in evo and installed by an s&s authorized dealer. 3 months later the base gasket started leaking and it cost him 900 to have it fixed. I have read lots of good things about ultima in the last few years
Another thing to think about is a transmission I had a 2014 Street Glide with 80,000 mi , I put a 131 crate engine in it and it tore apart the transmission with the Xtra power.
My brother has a 2014 stage 2 and same thing happened, I had to rebuild his tranny, they sucked that year.
PRECISELY what broke? HD transmission design mistakes have made Burt Baker gobs of money.
I wonder if they offer a get back on the road package for a TC88? Basically a stock engine with all of the factory issues fixed. A bulletproof crank with Lefty Timken and a gear drive cam in an otherwise stock rebuild. Maybe throw in some rocker lockers.
Totally makes sense, and in and out the same day.
Every time I see you uploaded a new video, I do my happy dance. 🕺🤙
That's awesome! I love to hear that!
You forgot about the Timken bottom-end-saver! 😮
I would like to swap a Buell Halcion engine in my 2008 Ulysess.. I have read it is 65# lighter than the Thunderstorm engine and that's going from 103 HP to 185 HP
I replaced my stock evo from the late 80's due to some damage that was done to it in a wreck that I never knew about..... I bought an S&S Evo and it runs so good.... Was about 4300 at the time and probably about the same cost of a rebuild plus it's a better quality engine overall so.... I'm happy with it. I have it in an 81 frame that was chopped so it could fit an Evo.
Great content again thanks just had my 01 cvo rebuilt new Keith black pistons s&s crank all new bearings chains already had screamin eagle cam chest 4,200 $ crank run out gave out 28,000 miles now hope lasts
The only Harley engine I have ever rebuilt was a K Model and that was with the help of a master Harley-Davidson mechanic. This included renewing the bottom end truing the wheels etc. Fast forward many years to when I was working for a H-D dealership and asked the service manager if that kind of rebuild were even possible today. He said "no, we just buy crank and rod assemblies.
This was exactly what I was waiting for!
What you should do is a video of how reliable a ultima is or how unreliable they are cause I have been looking at one for a little bit but I keep getting told to leave it on the shelf
The problem with the Ultima engines is that some people have little to no issues and some have nothing but issues all the way up until the day they pull it back out of their bike and put something else in. It kinda feels like a crap shoot to me.
If anybody has a twin cam 88 and it hasn't grenaded on you yet go immediately and have the crank pinion checked. They are known to get way out of balance and destroy your oil pump sending fragments of metal all inside the lower end of your motor. It cost me about 2k (from an individual) to have it rebuilt and that was just back to stock specs. Also have the cam tensioners changed to roller bearings instead of those orange plastic pieces.
come on man
Yea that's probably correct. Why do you think Harley changed the spec on crank run out . Most want even know it till it fails , wiped out oil pump , cam plate. Or a lifters failed and sends metal through the system
This dude.....gonna go Lev limiter my Limited TC w/over 100k miles on it today.(probably the 500 time)
@@toddbaa you have got one of the better made ones. The guy that worked on mine said he has rebuilt numerous twin cam 88s with that same problem. The runout is so far off it destroys the oil pump.
There is another video that gixerfoo has acknowledged that this is an issue with TC88 engines.
I got two bikes with SS engines . I would not want a stock Harley engines as I got bit by taking a chance and I knew better and bought a used Street Glide from a Harley Dealer that had it checked out ready to go deal . Lol out the door . Crank shaft failed in less than a 1000 miles . No way unless things have changed on the crank shaft builds and the lifters failures . The sumping I assume is under control on the m8 ..Do what you want I not interested..
Thank you for this video. I´m planning to "renew" the engine of my old 1993 Evo FLHS within the next months. And I was asking myself what would be the best for the old lady to have more power, more torque, less issues (no, there were not many, it´s an Evo!) and a sort of warranty for the next years and kilometers... I more and more come to the decision not to take an upgrade but a hole new engine. Seems to make more sense as I own the bike for 30 years now and I want to keep my old tourer as long as I can ride. I also have a 2003 FXDWG and a 2019 FLSB, so the FLHS-upgrade can take a while.
The hourly rate for labor at my local Harley dealership has jumped from 109 a year and a half ago, plus tax on the total to 135 per hour. For example, a straight SE stage 2 torque cam kit installed and dyno was 1163.64 after everything. Last summer. Not including the 530 dollars in parts. I don’t even want to guess what parts and labor and taxes would be to do stage 3 . I am just going to run this one this way, and in a couple years if I am still wanting to go bigger I will just put a new motor in it of the right size, with the warranty. Doing it piecemeal is going to cost a lot more than just replacing the whole motor.
Mine is 160.... hahahaha
I am 72 years old.
The day my engine blows up will be the last day I ride.
I hope it holds on a few more years.😂😆.
Everybody Ride safe.
😂 I'm 70 my ride got 50k,I didn't ride at this yr. So far,lost interest need to sell it.....ride safe brother👍🇺🇸🇨🇱✌️
put it this way I built my first m8 114 into a 128 were talking just engines here
no exhaust no dyno tune just engine for 2 grand bike made 130 hp 155 torque
so its a lot cheaper to build then It is to buy the key is doing the work yourself.
Excellent advice as always!
My dad's best friend, who's like family, has built Harley engines for 40 years. He built and races his own nitro Harley. Just so you know my dad and the people I'm referring to have ridden in the same MC for 53 years. My dad helped start the MC when he returned from Vietnam. So the club in the beginning consisted pretty much of Nam vets. I've seen many of them pass over the years but they all are hardcore old school bikers. One guy in particular schooled many of them about Harleys. He was a genius. He actually built the engine for the Detroit Brothers on an episode of Biker Build Off and actually appeared in it. I guess I need to make my point. Point being those guys know more things to do to improve horsepower and longevity than 90% of the people on the planet. Quick example. Remember all the aftermarket bikes that flooded the market in the 90s and early 2000s? I knew someone who bought a Big Dog with a 113CI S&S engine. My buddy rebuilt a 80CI Evo out of an FXR. It was 89" when he was done. I watched those two bikes line up and that 89" FXR just smoke that Big Dog by 3 bike lengths. The long winded moral to the story is that it may all look good on paper but not all engines and engine builders are the same. He took my 67 Shovelhead and made it a 88" stroker. He dual plugged the heads, installed a Dynatek single fire ignition, camshaft, exhaust and I'm running a S&S Super B carb. The rebuild was done almost 30 years ago and it's still running strong. I'll rebuild over a crate motor any day
I thought about a crate, but I was unhappy with my choice for a two-up early torque build, so I had my existing engine redone from the crank up.
Would go an s&s create motor for my fxsts but i do want some compression (9:1comp max) and considering a stroker crank for the highway miles i want this bike to do... s&s do not offer this and no the s&s "stock" 80ci does not do it for me and i need the bike to run on low grade fuel for when i go out sticks way here in Australia...so rebuild with as much s&s parts as possible thanks
Did I read wrong somewhere that the 131 crate motor has a different style left side case bearing?
20+ years ago my buddy bought a Merch engine (Canadian I believe) and put it in his bike, haven't seen him for a few years as he moved out of state but last I heard it was still running strong. I don't know if they're still in business or not.
Hey ,,, you left out the category Im in. !! Nothing wrong with the engine but just decided to have it upgraded by a professional builder !!😎
I love it! That's what I like to hear! Nothing wrong having the work done just because!
Me too, way I see it, buy a crate motor, sell my stock motor as a good running lump.
Thankfully my ol TC88 is still running pretty good. Thanks for the advise Incase I go nuts and decide to build a land rocket
113,000 miles on my 2003 RKP88
The 2 year warranty from S&S is only if it's installed by an authorized dealer not an individual
Wondering about that ultima engine I'm getting ready to put something in my 99 king next month and going to have a shop do the work.
I have a 98 Evo. It would be worth rebuilding when the time comes to do that but it lacks horsepower and the gains would be minimal. I've considered buying a complete engine for it but the cost is also prohibitive. Kind of stuck between a rock and a hard spot unless I abandon the Evo altogether and go with a twin cam that will give me more horsepower in a newer bike. Out of the three options I may go with getting a newer used bike and upgrading the newer twin cam. If that wasn't cost effective then I would rebuild my Evo or sell it as is. Tough choices when the cost of living is going up so fast...
If you abandon that Evo because it needs engine work wherever you are in the USA I will come and pick up that motorcycle and I will give it a good home and fix it. Evils are simple to work on and lasts forever. I don't know why every time I say Evo the phone translates that as evil. But I'd still rather have an evil motorcycles and a twin cam or Milwaukee. Evil is good.
@@frankmarkovcijr5459 right now it's in great shape with less than 27k on it. I've done the lifters, lifter blocks, the pushrods, compensator, clutch pack, primary chain, and carb kit on it. I was thinking once it got around 35k I would change the cam bearing, seal, cam, and oil pump to high flow pump. The base gaskets, head gaskets, rockers, springs, valves, pistons, and rings around 55k-60k. Then crack the cases and redo the crank at 75k. Maybe wait on some of the upper end till I tore down completely. I don't know yet. I really don't want to do the cylinders first but it may be necessary if the base gaskets start to leak on me. I built a 48 Pan back in 90-91 but I didn't get to ride it much because it got snatched by 3 guys in a national mc I won't mention. I'll just say they were surprised to see me afterwards but it was too late to save the Pan. I love the Evo but it's a slug compared to more modern stuff. Twin cams aren't my fave but I can fix one up if needed. Who knows I may let it go if I find the right deal.
@@mikaldene7146 I am surprised that at only 27,000 miles you have done so much work to that bike so far I would not wait to upgrade the cam bearing if the camp bearing fails it will be much more expensive that if you replace it. Cheap Ina bearing is the only problem with the Evo basically. The lifter should be replaced every 40,000 miles but you should have had no problems with the primary drive or clutch. I know guys with hundreds of thousands of miles on your evos and they've done very little to them other than lifters. The base gaskets B legal little bit but it's not really a big deal all real motorcycles leak a little bit of oil
@@frankmarkovcijr5459 I bought it used from a guy who wasn't really a rider and he burned up the clutch, compensator rattled and the chain had wear because he never adjusted it. The lifters, pushrods, and blocks were changed because a dealership left the lifters block screws un-torqued when they inspected the cam. They almost fell out. Fortunately they hadn't done any damage to the cam but it was a mess so I swapped them out to keep from losing the lifters bearings into the crankcase and eating the motor. Like I was saying before, mostly preventive steps to avoid a big headache later.
@@mikaldene7146 thank you for responding that clears up why so much stuff has to be done to the primary with so little mileage and I really don't understand that because it is really so easy to adjust the primary chain. Of course I have an evolution Sportster so it might be slightly different than a big twin but still a little bit of adjustment you know goes a long way. With the Evolution motor having pushrods motor clearances have to be much tighter. Cylinders can be too tall or Too Short there is not much clearance with pushrod so you have to have much greater quality control with a chain drive the chain takes up the slack so you can have cylinders with a chain drive that you could not have with a push rod. This enabled Harley-Davidson to pump out 30000 more motorcycles a year. It is a shame they did not continue the Evo in production because the twin cam and the milwaukee-eight have a shopping list of defects that come straight from the factory and all anything anybody says about the Evo is that the base gaskets sometimes leak. In my Ural owners manual when it talks about oil seepage on the outside of the engine they show you the production Machinery that takes from World War 1 with Indy cast-iron it would say USA 1916. They are not oil type in the way a BMW or Japanese bike is but they are no worse than a British motorcycle so you just have to take it to the carwash a little more often. People used to badmouth British motorcycles quite a bit about them being unreliable and vibrating too much and most of what would occur was because of owner negligence. If something fell off because they did not tighten the nuts and bolts they would pitch about the bike. If you do not keep the timing straight and the point properly adjusted and you like to run the bike at Full Throttle you end up holding a piston and then you blame the bright company instead of your own negligence. From your experience it shows that even an engine as reliable as Evolution Big twin if you neglect it it will suffer as any other mechanical device will. One thing I like about my Sportster is all I do is change the oil and filter and tires. It have four hundred thousand miles on it at his almost 25 years old. I do replace a little bearing in the clutch that goes out every 50 or 60 thousand miles and replace the alternator at 250,000 miles when the bike was 20 years old. I am on my third drive belt. Ironically I bought my Sportster so I would have a multitude of choices to take it to when I would need mechanical work but it has been phenomenally reliable and dependable more than even my BMWs or my Japanese motorcycles. With the Gear Drive in the engine like in my Sportster or my Triumph or my BSA Twins and singles I do not have to worry about the chain breaking and destroying the engine which happened to all of my Honda motorcycles. When my CX500 was 10 years old with 250,000 miles on her to cam chain broke and snapped the camshaft and two pieces. T o r e right through the water pump the more we opened up the engine the more damage we found. When a cam chain breaks your Pistons kiss the valves and your engine is toast. My Sportster may not have been as technically Advanced as my Honda CX500 but it has outlasted the high-tech Jap bike two-and-a-half times over. I have a weird collection of motorcycles just like my dogs both are Strays that come my way and I give them both a forever home. I believe you will have good luck with your Evo in the future I myself have had motorcycles damaged by so-called mechanics and then they have the nerve to charge you for damaging your motorcycle isn't that a crock of shit.
Great video 👍🏻
You helped answer a question I’ve been struggling with 😊
I've kept a fresh Evo on the bench for the past 5yrs because my 97 WideGlide is getting kinda long in the tooth at 42,000 miles.
I keep waiting, and waiting, and waiting........
if you get a create engine you have a stock engine you can sell. So if you're going to put a 131 or 135 in your new bike you will have a new HD engine you can sell. That might make the crate motor cheaper.
i just bought a new 131 crate. Installed my self. CR515 cam SE cam plate and oil pump Fueling race lifters. found out HD sent it out with .145" and .114"of preload on the lifters. So ordered new 7/16" .165 wall double clearanced cut solid pushrods from Trend Performance. At the tuners now.
Good content..pick up a tc103 salvage. Tighten it up diy. Wait for project time...Carry on..
I would like to replace my 1203 CC Thunderstorm engine in my 2008 Buell Ulyesses with a 1190 Halicon engine .. I have read it is 65# less .. Going from 103 HP to 185 HP
That new Buell super cruiser is absolutely insane! That thing almost looks like a Dyna but I imagine it handles like no other too!
If i had the cash :.an s&s early shovel engine would work just fine for me . At 93 cubes its got plenty power for my liking
The ultima motors are great motors Iv used em in all my custom
Builds and they barley have any problems at all. He was wrong tho the parts are made over seas that’s why sometimes they won’t have cranks for there big inch motors
What about the vin on the motor. Some states REQUIRE it to match the frame and title.
Move? Insist on freedom?
Yep new motor. Put a nice S&S Motor in there. Don't use the Stealership.
I rebuilt a shovelhead or sorry had it done but the guy who did the cylinders used sleeves instead of using S&S and at only 500 miles the sleeve in the front cylinder moved and ruined piston rings and really the front cylinder and then I had to order proper barrels.
As a guy who had his engine built into a performance engine (an S&S 124” Hot Set Up from my 103B)…. I would highly recommend buying the crate engine direct from S&S or whatever supplier. My bike went back to a supposedly “reputable” indy shop 3 times due to who-knows-what. The indy blamed faulty parts from S&S but they ended up tearing out the entire top end 4 times! The bike was down for over a year and a half! It sounded like absolute shit the first time I took it home. I knew it was buggered as I left the parking lot so I took it back. They blamed cross-hatching on the cylinder walls. 2nd time they blamed the cam-plate and oil pump…. I don’t even remember the 3rd time. I have some pistons and cams I want thrown in there but I have zero trust for indy shops or dealerships around here.
That's sad and l hate hearing you got yanked around by a shop. Places like that give good indy shops a bad name. I had a buddy that got an S&S crate and had a authorized indy dealer install it. Motor blew up, no fault on the shop but S&S send a brand new one and covered the labor. They wanted that old one back and to talk to him, they were truly interested in what failed and why on that motor. They took it personally that it failed.
@@GixxerFoo S&S obliged my Indy as well with the supposedly faulty parts. Regardless of whether mine was a bad batch of parts or not…. if I could tell the bike wasn’t running right, they definitely shoulda caught it. I also don’t believe that on 3 occasions it was S&S’s fault. Sounded pretty fishy to me. Had it of been a crate engine, there would be no doubt who was at fault.
I've owned my '98 EVO since 2001. I love that bike. I always said that once it hit 100k I'll swap it out for a S&S 96. Well once I hit 100kS&S made a V111 so I went with it instead. Not a stroker but gobs of torque. Plus then I have a spare engine to build a bar hopper with - it's still sitting in the crate the new engine came in.
Normally I do my own wrenching. If a certified S&S dealer installs it the warranty doubles to two years. So that's what I did.
After 5k on the new engine it developed a knock. Crank bearing issue. S&S paid for the removal and installation of the engine and fixed the problem. So far the engine has30k on it and runs like a jack rabbit on adrenaline and crack and a hot MtDew. It's fast, smooth and reliable. Buries the speedo on the entrance ramp to the freeway.
I don't buy a new bike when the ash tray gets full. I modify what I have to upgrade to higher standards. I can appreciate those who do buy often, it keeps the MoCo in business.
6 speed gearset was around $1k doing it myself. About 2 new bike payments. This only works if you can do a lot of your own work though.
Good video with a lot of great points.
I have a 2003 Twin Cam Deuce. What would I need to buy to meet the power of my new DCT Wing?
How about pulling the plugs and turning over the engine before trying to start?
My question is about the engine serial number. To register both my Harleys with the state of Minnesota I had to have the frame serial number and the engine serial number. So now, if I replace the engine that came with the bike, that is listed on the title, with a different numbered engine, what steps do I have to go through to change the title? If you build a bike you have to save all the receipts for every part of the bike, then you have to buy a bond for the bike so you can insure it, and license it.
As always great info thanks brother ✌️
But if you put a bullet crank that's welded that can't start to wobble down the road a piece of mind
I'm the warranty for my panhead
The Harley engines never have camplate , oil pump,TIMKEN bearings or a trued flywheel to the level of a S&S. S&S just has a higher degree of quality that you can never get from Harley-Davidson.
If you have the cash the rebuild is the way to go, otherwise the crate motor is the next best bet and you have peace of mind with a warranty.
If my Bike blows up , I will be going with a New Crate engine . after 4 Builds to 95 to 100 HP out of a EVO . I can buy a Ultima 120 CI for the price of a DIY build . The price of everything had went up so high its best to go After market .
Newish sub. Love your content!
I blew up my s&s 107 on my American iron horse at 1:30 in the morning 45 miles from home 😢.. I'm in the middle of swapping it out for an Ultima 120.. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
😎👍
Big thumbs up for the channel...
Thank you! Cheers!
If you have the money. It is best to do a complete motor job crankshaft up. Just like you said, throwing a new top end on an old bottom end is scary. Then if you go the new crate engine. You're not going to have a numbers matching motorcycle. If that is something that bothers you. Plus you'll need a new speedometer. Well you don't really but it's something to think about. Plus the rest of your motorcycle is old and your transmission is old and beat up too. You might as well just get a new bike with an extended warranty and save yourself all the headaches.
I’d agree to some degree. First, always take advantage of sweat equity. I’m heading to the recycler yard IRL to find a cherry SE tc96 for my 2003 FLHTCUI. I got robbed of my parts left in the barn unlocked. Standing here with only the OEM long block for my bike. My plan, is to find at the recycler: SE Heads, SE Cast Aluminum Intake, SE TBI with SE Injectors, HD Jugs, SE Air Cleaner, Manual Release Valves, SE Chest Plate, SE Cams even though...meh.
Other option if time, money, convenience don't seem eazy breezy; find a nice, clean TC96 with good compression, slap it in the ass and make it cry.
I can 99.999% that one of these two options will be cheaper than buying a crate motor, and if I pick it I will know it will fly to Reno and back or Tijuana and back no problem. It comes down to what options you have available and how much time aka money you have lying around.
Food for thought.
Much respect, keep doing your thing I love your channel.
Does anybody do thier own work anymore.just buy motor and put it on yuorself.
Unbolt. Bolt it in. Real easy
Yeah, "just" do it yourself...
Where are Ultima engines made? Great channel thanks.
They are made in Missouri and sold through distributor networks.
Great advise
Could you please do a video on mount Rushmore 103 twin cam ho engine swop option please and thanks. S&S, SE, & others. Love your indepth video you due for us!
Interesting,does the HD crate engine run the junk crank that's in the stock engine? If so definitely not worth it,just my thoughts 😊
My same thought
Me too
Yeah it's still pressed just like all the other cranks, but they do use the heavy duty roller bearings in the bottom end. That does help quite a bit, not as good as the Timken though.
You did not mentioned the Rebuild a 1200 sportster engine, will you be doing a separate video? own a 2020 Sportster Roadster
Excellent info unfortunately and fortunately I’ve done this on my evo and M8. The M8 was because of a failure. The evo was my choice after running numbers to rebuild.
I typed what I thought was a great comment but yt's bogus editor made it disappear when I was almost done, so fuck it.
What motor would fit in a 2004 ultra🤔
Just about any aftermarket crate motor from S&S will fit, Screamin Eagle 120 ST or R, Ultima has twin cam that would fit in there as well. The Ultima is about the only other aftermarket twin cam other than S&S or Jims out there.
@@GixxerFoo thanks
If you go with a brand new complete crate motor is there anyway to reset the odometer as well? New computer and gauge maybe?
Great video and info.
Thank you 👍🏻
I found me a 103 ci touring engine thinking to swap that on my 2006 88ci street bob it that work?
Video was 1 year ago. Can I purchase a 103ci and bolt on to a 1999 Road King, or doe that require frame modifications?
It won't just bolt right in, I believe there are some adapter kits available though. The 88's had external oil lines and the 103's are internal between the engine and transmission. The mounting points are a little different since they redesigned the touring frames around 2009-2010.
You need to go indebt about how to resister the bike after that. It sometimes is a huge problem with law enforcement and government.
Registering and insuring a bike after a engine swap isn't too bad since in most cases you go with the vin number on the frame. But with a crate motor swap I highly suggest keeping all your receipts and documentation. I would even go as far as to keep a copy of the MSO that came with the engine on the bike just in the event you're stopped by the cops and they want to fish.
Harley reman program saves your cases and numbers. Another option.
I've got a 2000 springer Softail with a 88 and I'm wanting to try and put a 103 in it's place what am 1looking at far as making it work
Several factors here as it's not a direct bolt in, with the time and investment it would take to put a 103 from a newer bike in a 2000 model you'd be better off hopping up your 88. Couple routes to go here, you could bolt on an S&S 100 inch kit or rebuild your 88 from the bottom up with a stroker crank and a 95 inch bolt on kit. That would get you to a 103, but a 100 inch kit with a cam swap would leave a 103 in the dust.
Definitely would go with a new Crate S&S motor but then you would also need a Baker Transmission
Did HD quit selling twin-cam crate engines? I just checked out their SE site for the first time in awhile and I could only find M8s.
Good question, I know for sure they are still remanufacturing Twin Cams. The website doesn't list all the parts and accessories available. I haven't checked on Twin Cam crates in a while, I'll check into that myself.
@@ihopetospeed1 Thank you!
You want to talk money 💰? I’m building a 108 shovelhead from new cases , jugs , heads , oil pump rocker boxes & almost impossible to find 4.75 flywheels. Ugh what a gluten for punishment I am 😂
I have 4 3/4 flywheels that need rebuilt that I am selling.
@@TS-iq2hv
Thanks but I have them now but had a hard time getting them , S&S won’t make them anymore had to get the wheels only from truer & Osborne And have them built with Jim’s & S&S parts
Damn! Yeah a big inch Shovel is some big money!
What’s the biggest engine Harley Davidson make for the twin cam
Harley-Davidson in the Twin Cam they make the 120 ST, and the 120R. The ST has a milder cam and comes with a throttle body, it's "street legal". The 120R has a more aggressive cam and you have to buy your own throttle body, supposed to be for racing so you choose what induction sytem you want. But most guys go the R route as they are the same price and run it on the street.
@@GixxerFoo ok thanks I heard those motors really run hot and are not good for long distance traveling what you think would an oil cool help any...
Sir, could you invest in a clip on microphone or put a regular mic close to you? It's really hard to hear you across the room and it seems you're farther away than in your older videos. Thank you sir for your invaluable information, keep up the good work!
no sound problems from here.
Yeah I've got to get different mic, I have a external one but I'll work on the sound some more!
I have a 2003 88ci Dyna Wide Glide anniversary edition and would like to go all out and get a new crate engine installed. Can the new 135ci Screamin' Eagle stage 4 be installed in it? If there is no way to do that one then what is the highest performing engine that one could buy to install in it?
Does the cam case and high flow oil pump come with the 131 crate?