Is A $500 San Martin A MASSIVE Overreach?
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- Опубліковано 15 вер 2024
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Shout out to Mr P for the loan of another watch. This one has a lot of quality, but does it have enough to justify buying it over the alternatives? I like the 'idea' of the PT5000, but I need to run one or two long term to see if I actually like the 'reality' of the PT5000. I guess that many of you feel the same way judging by the poll. Cheers, Jody
So, San Martin watched the video and dropped the price until the end of the month! 🤣 Use the code 'JOMWSN009' for $25 off!
Goes to show what margins they have,....
Well I’ve gotten a line on it for $360 with the PT 5000 and DHL shipping included. As I said that’s my maximum with these watches. We’ll see how it fares. As of now, all watches I’ve purchased with PT 5000s have been well regulated from the factory, and have been trouble free in their Cronos mounts, for around six months now.
Well they need to do better than that, a lot more actually.
I’d rather have the San Martin.
Zelos are a bit overplayed at this point.
The comparisons of what you can get for the same money are a nice new feature in the videos. Helpful to contextualize the reviewed watch. 👍
$200 - $250 San Martin watches are fantastic. Beyond that, I'm definitely looking for more brand recognition.
Which is why people are going to buy these without the logo put a Seiko of grand seiko logo on it and boom they have a watch that looks like the one I payed $4k for 🤣 honestly though I would challenge you to find another diver for $500 or less brand new with a 4 hertz movement I only know of 1 o 2 other brands and overall his is a nicer watch all around
Why you worried about brand recognition? You know what it is, nobody else cares or think you're a bit strange for spending so much on an old fashioned watch when you could have had an Apple Watch. People are idiots, don't worry about what they think.
I build watches as a hobby & have used the pt5000 many times. I have friends that have worn my watches for over a year now & they run great still with only a few seconds of deviation. They are excellent movements, much better than the other Chinese clones.
That sounds like a fun hobby. Do you have super steady hands?
The problem with spending that much from aliexpress, sending the product back if you have an issue is always expensive and always a pain in the butt. Especially from here in the states.. not to mention i hear san martin customer service isn't the best if you get my drift.
Thats why you should get a NH35 watch. Worst case scenario?! you buy a new movement for 30-50 bucks and "repair" it yourself :D
Thats why i never buy sellita base watches from aliexpress. You can get miyota, pt5000 and nh movements pretty cheap.
It’s a no brainer for me. If I was shelling out that sort of money the Tissot and the king turtle would be ahead of the queue by a long way.
I had a King Turtle briefly but couldnt get over the (misaligned) cyclops. Also the lume pip on triangle marker was off the right. I guess just a case of bad luck.
I did pick up a SRP779 with a ceramic lumed insert, domed crystal, and coin edge bezel with the original parts for $300
The Tissot wouldn’t even make it on my list.
What an uninspired boring design.
It looks cheap and soulless.
And what is the meaning of “Swiss made” nowadays?
@@e28forever30 I have a number of Swiss watches including a Tissot (not the one mentioned) and up to now "Swiss Made" means a superb watch in every case.
Can’t agree more with this…
@@e28forever30 Agreed! Tissot are the most generic boring watches out there!
At the $380ish price point, I would have a Zelos rather than San Martin.
100%
If they are ever available.....I own 1 swordfish and love it
I would like a helm
@@richardvacanti4265 I own 1 and it is a hefty watch. A tad heavier than I prefer. It is a cool watch
@@richardvacanti4265 I have a HELM komodo and I love it
Bought mine two months ago when first released and I love it! Fits my 21cm wrist a treat, specifically went for the pt movement mostly for the price but also because I have watches with the sellita movement already. Gains two seconds a day, awesome bracelet and finishing, for 288quid delivered to the 🇬🇧 I'm very happy bunny! Good honest review Jody, keep up the the good work and hope you still loving your Lexus! 👍
That is great value. I have the Rolex submariner
homage the Ghost V3 and that is also a great watch.
Got this in the sale recent for £220 and it is the one of (if not the best) finished watches I've got. Plus, it's the only San Martin that I have where I can honestly say absolutely zero QC issues! I love it 👍🏻
How could you not love an LS430? Talk about a car that's homage worthy...
I currently have my eye on a different San Martin that also comes with either the SW or the PT. So far, I don't see why I shouldn't get the cheaper variant ... your example seems to be running about as well as my SW or ETA equipped Swiss divers... and since the movement won't change the San Martin into a "Swiss Made"-watch anyway, why not go with the Chinese ETA-clone and save a bit of $s / €s?
Oh and BTW: I had the GS this one's based on on my puny 6.75 in/17cm wrist last year at an AD and while it felt indeed a bit top heavy (it wasn't sized for me of course), it didn't look outlandishly big on me. I wouldn't buy or wear it, but if you're into bigger watches and have smaller wrists, this case-shape might work for you, despite the outlandish sounding dimensions.
Swiss made stuff is a lie. Don’t give those charlatans any money for their 50+ year old movements that use 300 year old technology.
@@Mister_Phafanapolis although you’ll find plenty of watchmakers that will service a Swiss movement but not so many that will service a Chinese one.
@@murph8411 PT5000 is a hOmAgE of an ETA movement; my understanding is parts are interchangeable. If a watchmaker can work in a “Swiss” movement then they can work on this a openly Chinese made one
@@murph8411 any watchmaker can service a PT5000, its a clone
@@VoltLover00 except a lot of watch makers here won’t look at anything Chinese. Even when you find one it’s cheaper getting a new movement than paying for a service.
I always go with the PT5000, I have 3 of them. Can't speak to the long-term reliability, but the accuracy is spot-on, all 3 of mine run within -/+5sec
Edit: I should say I've had one of them for nearly a year now, it's still perfect. I'm a big fan.
At $375, it's a stretch and it doesn't exactly get my heart racing. At $500, San Martin is in no danger of selling one to me.
If I can drop $500 on a watch, I can wait another month or two and drop $750 on a pre owned Longines Hydroconquest or a used Oris Williams F1, which not coincidentally, are watches that I'm seriously considering. And if you think about it, everyone wears a used watch.
Also, not really a fan of San Martin's homage to Bruce from Finding Nemo in the caseback. If San Martin want to sell $500 watches, they need to make watches that are worth $500 on their own merit, and not watches where the main selling point is that they look somewhat like $5000 watches.
I'm in the same boat, $375 meh, $500 Fuck off. at $500 I'd be going used Longines,Oris or grey market Hamilton and pocket the change. As I said about throw an NH35 in it charge $230-250 and I'd buy it
100% They need to actually try and come up with new interesting designs at that price point. Stop with the blatent copying famous watches.
Love my Oris Williams F1….and my Tissots. Actually, I love all of my watches! 😀
@@icalexander I’m new to watches… haven’t owned one in 20yrs. I always bought Citizen’s from the galleria mall. I’m looking to buy my first automatic watch with a AR coated sapphire and I want it to have a open back showing the movement. Not sure if I want a diver or a sport/dress Rolex homage… definitely want a metal bracelet. I don’t know what an oyster bracelet is. I know SM make good watches with above average QC. I want a PT5000 movement if possible
I used to have the GS Titanium version of this watch and I have to say, the SM looks quite impressive. The bezel on the GS was actually fairly rubbish and could be knocked easily and the bracelet had pin collar adjustments, so SM even copied the faults! At least the SM version doesn't have the horrible power reserve indicator, but the dial does seem a bit empty without it. Love the sped up footage, almost looks like a spring drive sweep :)
With increasing prices and more taxes to pay to get it to the UK, I have to say, I'm starting to no longer look at San Martin. This is a shame as they are great watches.
Also, there is a psychological price limit I have in my head for a homage.
yes agreed. for me a big part of the appeal of these chinese homages is that theyre cheap and dont take themselves too seriously. 500 dollars puts it solidly in "real watch" territory.
Take a watch for what it is. Homage is a tricky term, as not everyone went through the watches encyclopedia.
@@andrei-cosmin.popa85 that's true, but I know it's a homage and that is what counts to me personally.
I appreciate that they have put a better moment in this watch and this movement costs more than a nh35, but my previous homages with an nh35 have always been great. I'd rather pay less.
@@arthurturner3080 and again, people would pay 700€ in Europe for a Chinese made sold by USA micro (NTH), but they look down on an honest, down to earth microbrand from China that not only keep their quality at highest in their market, but also responds directly (on WUS) to customers' feedback and act accordingly, improving their manufacture.
PS: all but love for NTH, I've got one myself, but I'm just saying the value is only @ your wrist. Unless you buy as investment... In which case we'd be talking high tier brands, not Chinese affordables.
@@andrei-cosmin.popa85 100% agree. I would add that in most cases people consider something an original design just because they don't know the reference the watch is homaging, it happens with a lot of microbrands.
I’ve owned this watch now for almost a year. Still looks great and runs great. I still think it was a good purchase
It looks like San Martin is making a push to become a 'name' brand.While they do seem to produce quality watches for the price,i think to become a name they need to make a drop dead dead stunner of their own design.Otherwise they will remain a manufacturer of well made homage watches,and there is only so much money in that,before people decide to save for another 3 or 4 months and go with the real deal.Just my humble opinion.
I agree.A great homage is still just a homage, if I was spending that kind of money it wouldnt be on this.
If they wish to become a mainstream name brand, they’ll need to fix their poor after sales service, and stick with proven foreign assembled movements. It is far too risky a proposition now to spend over $300 for their watches.
They have their own designs... and they're bloomin awful haha, it's on the last page of their store!
You have to save your entire life in order to buy a submariner.
Nobody is gonna buy the SW200 version, so it's more like $350 actually, even less in sales.
I bet the sell a piss load of the selita 200 models ... maybe the host could ask the company how the sales break down % wise.
@@idahoman325 Uhm no. They sell most of their watches in the AliExpress San Martin official store and you can see how many got sold. Nobody usually buys any SM watches with a SW200. 9 out of 10 are sold with the PT5000
1) With the 500 barrier being crossed, I'd look at the King Samurai or Turtle. With all Seiko's flaws, I'm a fan of authenticity and not copied clones. With Black Friday around the corner to there's s chance of reducing the Seiko's prices below 500.
2) Two "identical" watches at different price points ??
Why buy the more expensive version ?
Whether or not we like to admit it, there's an element of status and "label" when we buy any product / watch.
It's human nature to want your "expensive" purchase to be distinguisable from a cheaper variant. And an untested clone of a clone mechanism ?
Nope.
And a like for the algorithm monster.
PT 5000 was tested at Glashutte.
@@e28forever30 Time and use are the best tests.
My last purchase was my Glycine gl0087, paid < $350, good movement, no qc issues, very comfortable on the wrist, best watch at this price point IMO.
No problem with the Chinese made PT movement in this watch, and no problem with SM charging a higher-end price for a higher-end product. The over-reach is in the fact that it is still completely unoriginal. If SM has aspirations to move upmarket they need to do their own design work. Great review as always Jody
To me, a good brand is a good brand and a good watch is a good watch. Swiss made holds no value over Chinese made to me, it’s all about the actual watch on your wrist. I would love San Martin to try some of their own designs though.
You don't mind children working in chinese factories?
@@smrtkscm They are all built by robots much as Rolex are.No children in sight just machines and cnc stuff.Thats why they are cheap Rolex simply take the piss.
@@smrtkscm sWiSs mAdE watches are made from parts made in those same factories you claim to use slave labor. Only difference is final assembly is done in Switzerland like a parts kit and they add a comma to the price.
@@Mister_Phafanapolis It is not true a you know it.
@@smrtkscm It is. There is a reason the Swiss whoreology mafia insists on the 60% _value_ rule; it’s so they can use overseas produced components and fluff their margins. These watches are absolutely not made in the Alps by a band of merry, Keebler elf-like men.
Aliexpress watches, great for cheaper watches, but when bang for buck for under £100 was a thing, now we are talking bang for buck for under £500, no history or heritage is a difficult pill to swallow, do not get me wrong its great to see the quality of these watches increase, but even if my Seiko's have lower specs, me personally I'd spend £500 on a Seiko, even a used Mido or Certina.
There is an invisible line, isn't there? I don't quite know where it is, but it isn't at $500!
Totally agree mate, well said. There are more credible options out there for this kind of money.
Your opinion is exactly the problem with the watch industry. You say you care about the product, but in the end you care about the brand more even to the point of paying extra for a name. We don't live in the 90s anymore. In the era of the internet even these chinese brands will know that you can't sell a shitty product and the fact that watch channels keep reviewing and recommending these is proof of that. If anything having to admit that people have been scammed by the big watch brands all this time is where things get difficult.
@@JustOneMoreWatch if working in dollars I'd say 200, which is under that £150.00 price, with 20% now added VAT on AliExpress purchases as well means getting that value proposition is more difficult than ever
@@Aggnog it's the same in any industry, I deal with electronics and you get more from a Chinese mobile brand than you would say with Apple or Samsung, but when you need that after sales support or even repair good luck with that, I can buy a Seiko and know if I have an issue I can get it repaired under a warranty, and if we talk price retention than we have to look at heritage being the biggest influence, no doubt the stuff from China is great, especially the value for money, but I'm not a watch fan because of the specs, but totally understand that some people are.
I like it. The size doesn't bother me and the plain black dial is true to the Grand Seiko it homages.
The only thing I'm not big on is the hexagon logo - they could do worse thato offer a blank dial or the custom text service on thia model
For the money though (for the cheaper movement) it's a solid win I reckon
It doesn't help that this is probably the most bland GS I can think of. Copying that watch and asking over $500 is just a huge no for me. Even the PT5000 version is very expensive imo. Especially considering the bad experience I've had with San Martin and their "warranty".
What happened with your San Martin watch?
Same bad experience with the so called San Martin "warranty" , there is none in case of faulty watch, you have to pay or lose your watch.
It is very bland, indeed.
I look at my 2nd gen Sumo, still thinking it is one of Seiko’s most characterful designs.
It is about the same size, and the 6R15 runs like a champ.
It hardly gains a second a day.
Best automatic watch I ever owned.
Picked mine up months ago when it first came out with some discounts for about 350 USD. I am very happy with it, one of my favorite watches overall. Wears nice, and is quite comfortable for me even with a smaller wrist. Felt like I was taking a bit of chance, but really glad I did!
There is so much to choose in this range. Jomashop always has some great specials like Armand Nicolet, Alpina and Edox. Big discount divers around $500-$600. Esp Edox Neptuner or Skydiver 70s
I have a escapement watch flieger with the pt5000 for over 6 months now and I can say this movement is a game changer for the price and quality I'm on a +6sec a day from the box. Love my watch
I got a BB58 with the PT5000 back in mid May from Ali Express. It was running +5 to 12 secs a day initially, with a strong amplitude and minimal beat error on my timegrapher. The mechanism never quite ‘felt right’ though, it has no real ‘spring out’ to the crown release, there is an overly stiff feel to winding it, even from zero. I’d kind of accepted these characteristics as it kept time well, but I also noticed after a week or so that it was noisy off wrist in quiet environments like a bedroom, with a really high pitch squeak that did my head in! I couldn’t pick the sound up on wrist, but put it down off wrist on say a bedside table or desk and it would squeak away. Then in early August the clincher was when it lost the plot after a week or so of non-use, was wound up and worn only to be running at +65-80 secs a day! It was never dropped or bashed, it just turned shit all on it’s own so I initiated a warranty return with San Martin. I won’t bother you with the ins and outs of that return, other than that it has taken a while (more due to the watch sitting in Chinese customs to be fair) but the watch is on it’s way back to me, apparently running at +2 secs a day, according to San Martin service. Not sure if it’ll be a new PT5000 or they have repaired the original, I hope they just changed it because I think I got a stinker originally. So would I bother with a PT5000 again to save the cash over an SW200 variant? No chance.
In Australia that would be around $690 AUD. Add on the GST to that and you're looking at nearly $750. That's too high for my wallet. For that kind of money I would be looking at Seiko or another brand with some heritage
Yep the Australia price for everything.
Purists will either laugh at this one or/and hate it altogether. Although I wouldn't touch this one with a stick as its way too big for my taste and I'm not a fan of this particular design, either, I think it's a very good, well built, high quality esthetic homage to the GS diver 👍🏼
I love Grand Seiko quality (if not their prices so much, ha!), but, most of their designs are soooooo dull.
Hell no
Jody, that second (inner) gasket is not for improved water resistance. That gasket sits on the movement ring and with the case back tightened, prevents the movement from rattling inside of the case and also acts as a shock absorber. Many Swiss brands such as Omega and Tissot using this same system (either a thick rubber gasket or a wavy steel spring ring).
Great review as always. Too big for my personal preference. As far as the PT5000 goes, mine is running +1 sec/day so I have nothing to complain about with regard to regulation. The winding and crown stem engagement is not as smooth as the SW200 but the finishing on my SN008-G more than makes up for it.
I've got quite a few watches with the PT5000 movement in now. A couple of which I've for a year. I've not had any issues with any of them. I've got San Martin, Cronos, Phylida and a Hruodland with them in.
This may be controversial, but I'd take a San Martin over a Seiko every time. In fact I have multiple times. I own quite a few San Martins, but no Seikos. For me the build quality is better with San Martin.
If I had to spend 400 $ for a watch on AliExpress, I would definitely buy a Sea-gull Ocean Star. I would wait for the 11/11 sales though, to buy (at the same price) a special edition rather than the standard.
Original design.
In house (and probably better) movement.
A decent heritage of the brand.
Plus, I like it better, but this is subjective.
The Ocean Star is definitely a terrific watch. I have one on order. 270 dollars.
San Martin's automatic military watch at 135 dollars is a worthy alternative to the Seiko SKN 809. Also on order from AliExpress.
San Martin watches look cool don't get me wrong, and I like my homages (especially of more "obscure" watches like this one) but this is a no for me...good specs for the price in a vacuum but in context...the alternatives look solid. Hard pass.
I’ve never been hands on with a San Martin but in the reviews I’ve seen they always look well made, however, they are copies. Cut and paste as you put it in the vid 😃. For that kind of money I’d much rather do what you suggested at the end of the video and buy a Tissot / Certina / Seiko or similar, or, save my money and put it towards an Oris for example. I don’t know if it’s cause I’m a fellow Scot but I just don’t think I’m getting the same value spending this much dosh on a copy, regardless of quality. All the best and keep up the good work!
I just had the Cronos submariner homage arrive with the PT5000. I really hope that the movement is good long term. Certainly feels good so far.
Had my SM BB58 homage since March , has the PT5000 , it's still running lol - I don't have a timegraher but it runs about -5/6spd on wrist :)
That's pretty good news, Alan!
Put another name on the dial with that finishing, those specs and chronometer performance and it’s over a grand easy. The merits of the watch justify the price.
Agreed. Came looking for a comment like this one 👍
I would need a more original design and I'd like more evidence that the movement will be good over time.
@@MrBacchus18 100% SM have been dining out on homage watches (clones) for a while. If you want to be taken seriously start to design your own pieces. If not, cheap and cheerful clones are okay in the 100-200 dollar bracket no more.
It’s a big gamble. Get a German Steinhart for that kind of money.
Quite often, brand is just brand in my book - I love to find "unknowns" that are outstanding quality, so this seems to be a great option for me. I own a Grand Seiko (not the model this is based on) so will have a very good opportunity to compare finish etc. The PT5000 is interesting and I'm looking forward to using it - it's no Spring Drive, but I have a stack of ETA and the odd Selita to compare against 😃
Update - my PT5000 seems to be having problems - sometimes the date doesn't change properly and it sometimes loses 1 few *minutes* overnight (even when on the winder)... San Martin have been pretty good with reomte troubleshooting, but now it's going back for them to look at...
I’ll take the Seiko every time! Non watch people don’t know the San Martin name, but everybody respects the Seiko name. Great review as always Jody!!!
Bought this watch in June. Got it for $350 through WR Watches with a discount code and the PT5000. This is one of my favorite watches. I like big watches and this hits my sweet spot. Great quality I have had no issues with the PT5000 so far. I really like this watch
Great video, Jody! I recently had to contact San Martin customer service, and I was sincerely impressed by how well the overall experience went. I'm big on customer service (that's partly why I'm such a big fan of Zelos), and my recent service experience with San Martin has had me wanting to get another San Martin soon. This video, I think, showed me which one I'd like to get. Thanks for that! Good timing!
I had the oposite experience. And I will never buy again a San Martin watch because of their poor customer service
Yeah, Miyota 9015 here, chucking away in a NTH Cuda vintage. Love the little machine, beats well within COSC.... Has a complete life of its own though. If you haven't looked at it for, lets say, half an hour, its demads your attention by spinning the rotor like a top. You have to love that. And still B.e. 0.3 and +3sec/day......
I'd say the best bang for buck of the 62 MAS is made by Tandorio. For just over $100 you get a 28.8k vph PT5000 movement, sapphire crystal, ceramic bezel and decent lume. I've got mine on a Barton elite silicone strap at the moment. It does hve the option for different color dials, as well as bracelet or rubber strap. Also, you can get the Steeldive 6105 "homage" with a PT5000 in it. It's listed as the SD1970T model, and it's very affordable.
Great footage Jody. I really appreciate your insight and honesty. That being said no thanks. At about $400 is where I draw the line on homages. I love homages and I love SM usually but not $500+
I paid more than $500USD for the Ginault Ocean Rover a few years ago, and that is a homage with a dubious movement, but it is oh, so pretty 😍
Have the SN019 with PT5000 movement. Worn for over 2 months now daily, consistent +2 seconds. I'm a believer now
Personally, I would consider the threshold of the utilitarian/specs aspect of mechanical watches are at high 400.
Sure there are better specs above that price but the performance/cost is not reasonable. At the $500 price point it's smt you just buy more with ur heart, I think that requires a unique design, so while I like the look overall, I think they should crave out their own look at higher price points.
Good point.
I agree.
Going over that price point gives you more “luxury “ and sometimes more accuracy, but not more inherent value.
Provenance is a big deal, as it represents customer service, quality, and a solid history of good products being made over time.
@@e28forever30 Agreed, paying more gets you prettier watches but not “better” watches. COSC certified accuracy is laughable when a $2 quartz movement is more accurate than the most superlatively chronometricly chronomic chronometer that ever chrono’d. Also, all my watches with Seiko NH movements keep better time than my watches with more expensive Selitta, Miyota and Swatch movements. Mechanical movements have a _je ne sais quoi_ but are objectively inferior at their tOoL wAtCh purpose of being time telling devices.
Hey Jody! Damn i released my review same day as you! I see your point regarding the alternatives and i have the seiko turtle, the sumo but this can hold its own amongst them I reckon, just on finishing and quality. It's even better finished than the Tissot but I totally agree and understand about the brand nor having the heritage. You know yourself from the aliexpress side, this isn't he best finsihed watch..right? Great review and coverage as always and that bracelet is so slick i couldn't stop touching it! I think that dial in enamel black with larger indicies would improve it plus a divers extension. Ultimately the price does need to be a bit closer to £230-250 for it to make total sense!
Hey mate! We must be twins, launching the same video on the same day. We agree on most points, including the amazing bracelet, and the dull dial. Cheers!
Awesome video as always Jody 👏👏👏👏 Thanks to Mr P for lending this San Martin in, the different movements and associated prices make for a really interesting comparison.
If I was in the market for one of these I’d go for the PT5000 movement mainly to keep the price down. As you mentioned, there’s definitely a psychological barrier when it comes to these sorts of price points and then there’s e intangibles that we watch enthusiasts seem to like (heritage/history/brand etc).
The SW200 loaded San Martin could be finished to absolutely perfection and be COSC accurate but it still wouldn’t quite be as “exciting” a proposition as a similarly priced watch from a more established brand. It’s all a bit silly to let the heart rule the head of course but if we predominantly bought watches with our heads then we’d buy a Casio or a smart watch. Or better yet, we’d check the time on our phones 🤣
I have two watches with the PT5000 ticking away in the back, one San Martin and one Cronos. The Cronos is new, but I’ve had the San Martin for over ten months and it’s ticking away like a dream. It’s running at about +3/4 seconds a day. I have a few watches with ETA and Sellita movements in the back, and the PT5000 is easily as accurate as those, if not even more so!
TL;DR: I’m a PT5000 convert, and I hope that you will all join me.
Great review JOMW! As always... That San Martian doesn't cut it for me, but I liked the looks of that Tissot Seastar 1000. I looked at that, and thought... Meh? But then... The Tissot Seastar 2000 popped up and... WOW! Now THAT is an awesome watch! Yeah, it's about twice the cost of the SM and the Seastar 1000, but it looks totally worth it. That blue-to-black dial is gorgeous! And the feature enhancements are just incredible. I know what my next watch is on my list now! Thanks as always Jody! You're the best!
i have a San Martin datejust with the PT5000 in it and its amazing! the finishing on the watch is top notch and the movement keeps great time, no rotor sound and the winding feels just as good as high end movements. you really can't get a better watch for the money
I would just change the dial with an aftermarket one. If I want to go an extra step I'll give it a seiko movement.
If I have the choice between a Seiko or a San Martin, Im doing San Martin all day...their build quality overall is just better. The PT5000, I predict will take over the NH35 in years to come. It is hard for me to go over $500 for a San Martin however. If they start producing original design watches then that price is not a big deal. I think they are making the best watch in the mid 200 to 350ish range hands down...
Agreed! Seiko has the history but their watches arnt even close to SM quality! Not unless you spend mega bucks...
I’m thoroughly impressed with this watch. It’s great to see the hi-beat PT5000 movement.
Great review!
Hi Jody, I have this movement in my Reef Tiger, Deep Ocean. Excellent time keeper, better than most of my SW200 movement watches. Keeps time at about 1 to 3 second variation per day, similar to the STP1-11, or the miyota 9015, which are two movements in my collection that are also excellent time keepers. Say what you want about the Miyota 9015, but I personally own 3 watches with this movement, one of which is the Zelos Mako 3 titanium. They all stay at about 0-3 seconds per day variation, in my experience.
Had San Martin with PT5000 , basically very accurate +3 to 4 a day. Strangely the movement seems to store power using rota more efficiently than the top grade Sellita in my Sinn . Neither movement stops but If i take off the Sinn regularly the movement slows but the PT5000 hold time better. The PT5000 is a little stiffer to wind , but neither movement is that nice to wind. Caliber Corner did a strip down video and were very complementary about PT5000. I think there is a real drive by HK Precision to make a good reliable budget movement for all manufactures to use. The only issues reported are exactly the same issues as the ETA2824 suffers from. I only wish they made a copy of the ETA2892 a better movement all round.
Found this on ebay for £220 an I have ordered it .The reviews seem to be excellent so giving it a go.
If I was going to spend ~$380 I would definitely go for the Seiko King Samurai, and I did, as I recently purchased the SRPE33 "Save the Ocean" version.
The bracelet on this watch truly is gorgeous, though.😍
Bought a phylida NTTD with the PT5000 about 6 months ago and it's running very smoothly. I get around +/- 2 seconds a day.
First off, I love your videos Jody. Always a treat. Second I've long admired the original GS version that this model homages, but I honestly feel it's a little rich for my blood. I just can't bring myself to spend that kind of cash on any watch. As for the San Martin version.....I've got an Aragon, day/date, "Enforcer," with Sapphire, ceramic, super-luminova, SII NH36 movement, solid case, and integrated bracelet system that are completely brushed finish, w/ a milled steel "glide-lock" clasp, helium release valve, 1,000 meters of water resistance, and a custom designed dial by Wing Liang himself (which truly is one of the most beautiful dials I've ever seen in person). All of this for a price tag, out the door, of $223.00 USD. Oh and did I forget to mention the 2 year manufacturers warranty from a company know for their "world class" customer service. The dimensions of the Aragon are similar to the San Martin, but the design is 100% original. My Aragon beats the SM model in question any day of the week, and twice on Sunday. Now i will say that it doesn't possess the same level of overall finishing, but personally i prefer an all brushed case and bracelet. That is subjective though. Great review
I think it issue is that people keep saying they're bored of the NH35. San Martin listened and put in a better movement.. But now many will find it too expensive. I think most people are not as bored of the NH35 price as they think they are.
Hi Jody, would like to mention a point for anyone considering a tissot seastar. I bought one recently and it seems a newer release than the one you reviewed. It has an extra line at the bottom '30 bar 300m 1000ft' on the dial as well. But the thing regarding the loom, perhaps they saw your review, the loom seems greatly improved and is (on my watch, black dial) as good if not better than the steel dive 1970 I have, and is bright enough to read four hours after charging it up. Nice bright green loom initially then slows down to white but lasts hours. Thanks for another great video.
Polished edges of the dial hands to fit the polished applied indices, wavy or sunburst dial to bring up a bit of a life to a "prototype" like look.
I own a flieger with the PT5000 and it runs at less than one second a day fast about 3 seconds a week and its been running for just under 6 months and I have not had any problems with it. I would definitely take the option of the PT5000 movement any time I had the choice, from my experience with it I would recommend it to anyone who is looking for a high beat movement.
If I had the money I would definitely go for the Seiko King Turtle! Gotta love that cushion case and textured dial👌
Hi Jody I would love it if you could please add a nice long look at the side profile of the case (opposite side from the crown) as that’s the side where a lot of the nice case finishing and design is best seen. Great video as usual 👏Cheers 🙌
I own this watch with the SW200 inside. It looks great, but, yes, the dial looks a bit empty. Not much text, to fill the real estate and of course no power indicator leaving a big empty spot. I had a PT5000 SM before and that movement was a DOA one. I hear that story often. Guarantee was no problem, got my money back, but I don't believe in the PT5000 anymore. The XSW200 seems to be OK, running within COSC specs. But I like to see, that I have spend €120 extra, no sign on the dial, nothing on the back, not even a mention on the paper work. That is bad marketing.
And the final point, can somebody give me some guerentee, that this movement is actually made in Switzerland? Or does Selita has a factory running in China..? I simply can't believe that Selita is exporting movements to China, to be put in a GS homage watch...Nobody seems to ask, nobody seems to care, nobody seems to know.
I expect the Sellita movement in your watch is exactly the same as you’d get in a Swiss made watch considering the large amount of extra money San Martin are charging for this version ie: imported from Switzerland. That said I feel the “Swiss made” title is a bit of a con because “A Swiss mechanical movement is one whose technical development, assembly and inspection have all been undertaken by the manufacturer in Switzerland. Furthermore, at least 50% of the movement’s constituent parts must be of Swiss manufacture” so 50% of the movement parts are likely made abroad (probably in China). I’ve also heard (but very hard to confirm) that many cases, dials etc of Swiss watches are made in China. When you look at the extremely good case and bracelet finishing on this watch (I guess you can verify better this a lot better than me) i can see it would be perfectly good enough for a Swiss watch worth multiple times this price.
Sorry to hear about your experience with the PT5000. I have one watch with this movement inside and it is performing fine however I feel nervous buying watches from AliExpress rather than a proper AD as it’s such a minefield sometimes. I recently bought a Seagull watch which had major QC issues (black marks/scratches on the dial) and it was stressful returning it: Seagull ‘tried it on’ and were insisting I would have to pay the return postage myself which I thought was completely unfair. In the end I disputed with AliExpress and got a free return and full refund but it’s not a process I’d like to repeat again.
I had a SM homage to the SINN diver, with a PT5000 that did not run out of the box. Complained, got a free return sticker, send it back to Madrid ( I live in Spain) and got my money back. No issues at all. Lost my confidence in the PT5000 though, so that's why I went for the Selita this time. It runs perfectly -2 sec/day very smooth, very consistant.
I bet they purchase the parts as an ebauche movement from sellita, assemble, lubricate (maybe), and regulate them in China. There are a lot of opportunities to be slipshod in that process. If 60% of the value of the watch were Swiss, you can bet San Martin would have “Swiss made” on the face. Sellita 200s made in Switzerland are $199-225 retail. Some San Martin’s with SW200s were recently $350. So I doubt the sellita movements are assembled in Switzerland.
In that case I doubt that Swiss made Selita movements are 100% made in Switzerland. So in the end everything is made of parts and everything in sourced from somewhere, so nobody knows exactly where the endproduct is coming from. On top of that, we should get rid of the idea that everything that is really made in Switzerland would be superiour than from China. The red/blue ceramic bezel from San Martin for example could be used in any 'Swiss' made watch. The quality of that item is top..!
@@renebense the movements which are not sold as ebauches are assembled and manufactured in Switzerland. Believe it or not, the Swiss have better quality control over movements than the Chinese.
Rather have the Seiko King Turtle or Samurai. Though their 62Mas homage is a better priced consideration and style. Picked up a very clean (pre owned, not worn) unbranded dial version for buck-eighty on eB, a good deal and very sweet watch. Build quality is excellent.
Arguably their best. I'm making a Top 10 San Martin for the 11/11 sale and that is #1
I put off buying a San Martin because of the whole aliexpress thing, but I sure am glad I finally brought one.. The watch feels so much more expensive than it is ! That same week I opened my SNJ028P Arnie and found a 3mm scratch on the dial and a tonne of dust on the dial.. Not sure I'll bother with the real deal anymore 😕
Have a PT5000 in my Heimdallr MM300 homage. First one I received died after 1 week. Took about 3 months to get that settled and received a new one. That one runs good, +/- 6 after 6 months with medium wear. So no long term figures yet.
Thank you so much for the video! Was looking for this model reviews across the all UA-cam
All I can think about with the pt5000 is walking into my watchmaker's and explaining that no, it won't take any of the boxes and boxes of ETA parts that he's got. He'll have to wait for parts from Hong Kong if something goes wrong which is more trouble than a $350 watch is worth. It'll be the sellita or the powermatic any day for me.
Yeah, it's a throwaway, rather than service. But that applies to the NH35 and even the Miyota 9000. It's not actually a bad thing. I'll need to get one and run it long term.
Good point Jody, if the PT is 65$ replace it like you would a NH35.
The problem with the Powermatic 80 is that it can't really be regulated other than by a true watchmaker - it is laser-regulated at the factory (there is no regulator arm), and regulating it requires adjusting 2 screws attached to the balance wheel, which will affect its balance. I was looking fondly at a Tissot to buy until I discovered this. (I like to regulate watches myself.) The problem with the Sellita is that it cloned the ETA-2824 so well that it also copied its achilles heel - both movements are prone to failure when being hand-wound, and you have to be very careful when winding, as it is very easy to cause broken teeth in the ratchet wheels. (And this is still the case in both newer versions, i.e. the SW200-1 and the 2824-2.) I have not been able to determine whether the PT-5000 solved that problem or not (though the PT5000 is cheap enough to replace rather than service).
I have a Geckota Gen 1 Diver with a PT5000 & I'm just about to send it back to them for repair as it's shat itself. Had the watch for about 6 months from new & I found that it tended to run slow, no expert but I'd say 20 - 25 seconds a day. A couple of weeks ago it seemed to really start losing time & then it stopped. I was advised to fully hand wind it & leave it off wrist to see how it went. After 12 hours it seemed good, but then when I returned home from work for my 8.30 pm 24 hr check, I saw it had stopped at 2.45... Less than ideal.
One of the best comments I saw in here was "... a swiss movement is not going to make this a Swiss watch" ... and also where is that 'swiss movement' made? Watchuseek states that ETA makes movements in China and Thailand for the Asian market (i.e. most likely San Martin).
I have several watches with the PT 5000 including this one. No issues with about 2 years of experience.
I got excited when I saw the thumbnail and mistook it for a GS, and was disappointed when I saw it was an homage; and that’s exactly how people will react when you wear it 😯😞
I have a San Martin SN 076-G with a PT5000 inside. I have it on the wrist for 48 hours now and it deviates.....0.0 seconds in 2 whole days, no kidding. This is incredible. On the Time Grapher it comes in at plus or minus 1 sec/day in 5 positions. I have the SN 009-G as well, with a Sellita SW200, and that watch comes in at minus 2 seconds a day on the wrist. Not bad, but my PT5000 is surely better. I have to say, this is my second PT5000 movement inside a San Martin watch. The first one didn't run at all..! So consistency of the PT movement...? Not sure. Anyway, my new experience with the PT5000 is phenomenal..!
I'd go to the Tisso Seastar and the Seiko King Turtle before this one, in either movement version. I've never owned a watch with the turtle's case design, so that's high on my list for a new watch buy now.
I’d take the Turtle.
That Tissot looks uninspired and boring.
Hello Marty, I have a watch collection, omong them a Cronos bronze turtle with a pt 5000 movement and it is one of my most accurate watches . I do have a few Seiko domestic watches and a couple Swiss watches and the pt5000 is as good as any of them.
I have a PT 5000 in my Cronos subby… no issues with it. As with the SW200, it can be in danger of that spinning rotor issue. Would not recommend winding from dead. Get it started with the “Seiko Shuffle” then wind keeping in mind the resistance you feel in the crown.
PSA over, I think the hexagon logo looks off scale to the supersized hands and indices. I think the GS works better bc the ate up some of that negative space from the huge dial with the Power Reserve, I think that’s what lends me to no connect with this watch. Too much negative space on the dial.
I have a Geckota with the PT5000, which I’ve had around a year with good accuracy and no issues to-date.
I'm just going to say that I'm not against homages, but my psychological limit for that kind of watch is 200€ - 250$ for a design that's not original. I can't help to set a budget limit to something that is, in the end, a copy. And that's probably too much, you can find good brands for that budget, that is always the option you think about when considering a homage. What can I get for that money?
Yes, I have a PT5000 for over a year. Same movement specs in mine. About +3.
I have the PT 5000 movement in the San Martin SN019 it keeps time at about +3 seconds per day. I'm left handed and wear my watch on my left wrist so it takes quite a lot of punishment from ball throwing for my dogs. I have had the watch for 6 months now and it gets a lot of wrist time so, so far so good.
I own a Geckota G-01 with a PT 5000, and it's an absolute peach. However, I owned a Cronos with a PT5000, that was poorly lubricated, and I had to take it apart. However, I would always choose a PT5000 over an NH35. Regards the watch in question, great if your a body builder
No reason to go for them when there's orient mako
Ummm, not sure that the Mako is the equivalent to this one mate.
@@JustOneMoreWatch There are two reasons why H L compared these two watches. One is stainless steel case, the other is stainless steel bracelet.
@@Ktrb Well, there you have it!
:-)
@@Ktrb
Explain?
PT5000 is a nice movement. I’ve had one in a Geckota for the past six months and it runs at about -3 to -5 seconds per day. Initially when I got it it was bang on for about a week but sadly that didn’t last! However, for the price the performance is excellent. The rotor is quiet and doesn’t wobble. The daily rate doesn’t seem to change with a few knocks or temperature fluctuations. Hand winding isn’t quite as smooth as my ETA 2824 Longines or Sellita-powered Glycine, however.
I own a San Martin, the vintage diver (SN004-G). It's a fantastic watch for the £180 I paid, including a custom dial design. My main issue with this San Martin is the dull dial as you pointed out Jody. I could justify paying up to $500 USD for a San Martin in preference to the Tissot or Seiko you showed if the dial wowed me. As it is, it's so dull I would not even pay the £180 I paid for my SN004-G. Great review again Jody, keep them coming.
Nice watch.
I like the idea of the PT5000, because you can throw in a 2824 if you want.
Not the sort of GS that I like though, so not inclined to purchase this at any price.
But if I did, I would go PT5000
I like this direction San Martin is going for. I hope they make an homage of the SBGK005G the Mt iwate one. Even if they don't copy the dial, the case will do it for me. And also a sunburst dial could've helped this watch a bit
I have a number of San N\Martin watches, all with the PT 5000. They work flawlessly.
I've had my Cronos with a pt5000 for just under a year, and accuracy has been fantastic. It's at about +1-3 sec/day.
I opted for a PT5000 movement about 2 years ago, just purely because it wasn’t your run of the mill NH35…God knows I have a shed full of em!Absolutely no issues, hence I was one of your 19% PT5000 respondents Jody. I would definitely buy another watch with this movement. I totally agree San Martin prices are pushing wayyyyy up, so I’ll be going for something more premium as a Tissot. Shed’s not quite full of them yet, but getting there!😂👍🏼
For me there’s no point spending extra for a Swiss made movement unless you get those magical words on the dial
If you want those magical words on the dial you're gonna have to spend another 500
@@campshay19 And take that 1000 and times it by 8 or 10.... ;-)
@@campshay19 - I could point you to an easy half dozen "COSC certified Swiss Chronometers" that come in around $500 USD. Besides Tissot, check out Certina, Mido, Rado, Longines. Hamilton, Victorinox... even Christopher Ward carries the magic words "Swiss Made." Many options in that price point, but I have to agree- of you want to spend an "extra" $500- there are some GREAT watches for sale.
@@campshay19 allow me to introduce you to the wonderful world of Jomashop Tissots
I already own a Sea star and a King Turtle, amongst others. I want a GS but realistically I can’t justify spending that kind of money on a watch. This is a nice watch and you get a lot of watch for the money. I might pull the trigger on this one.
And before someone asks. I bought all of them in the official SM Store on Ali. The green water ghost had big specs under the crystal and different sized grooves on the bezel. The green turtle had the caseback gasket squeezed and threaded between the case and the caseback. The SN059 (datejust hommage) with a PT5000, the movement died after three hours and last but not least the GMT Master hommage came with stuck screws on the bracelet (who killed a quality screwdriver from Bergeon 😡) and a bad finished case (the bottom right lug had a sharp edge, where it should be round 😒).
I collect watches for 10 years now and i know my stuff.
It was nice to try them, but in comparison to all the praise their watches get on UA-cam it was a big disappointment. 👎
Sorry man, but yeah it seems San Martin do have some quality control issues. Good build quality, but quality control issues nonetheless
Same problem with Datejust screws , the GMT was perfect, as have all the San Martin watches I've had so far.
That empty space where the dial curves between the 5 and 7 markers is so devoid of the essential small print ! When I first got into Italian wine the first thing I used to look for on the label was "D.OC."
Similarly, when I got into watches: "Swiss made" and
"Japan 1234-5678T"
I'm saving my pennies for the blue and black version with the Sw200 movement I've had a San Martin water ghost with the black dial and NH35a movement and the build quality and movement is exceptional and it has an amazing wrist present it looks and runs like a watch you would expect to pay a lot more for..✌️🧐🇬🇧🇺🇦
Look at Geckota watches, they use PT5000 movements also. And more micro brands started to use them. Good quality movement. Would go for it over NH35 / 36 all day.