My most used tool is the Rivet-Counter 3000. It's a hand held device, like a speed gun in appearance, that instantly tells you what a manufacturer has gotten wrong on a model. It was sold to me as an essential item by everyone in the online forums!
Hi Stratman. The rivet counter has a settings switch that enables it to function on all gauges. It runs on either petrol or diesel but if you choose petrol, it must be of the high octane rating. These gadgets are sold mainly in large model shops due to their enormous size, and their cost, with a discount, is usually around £999.00p. If you decide to use it indoors, you must get it insured and obtain a Government Health & Safety license at a cost of only £119.99p. Hope this helps. Paul. 👍
Heating the train room will be the most expensive cost. I can cut the lights in the room and enjoy trains running 'night time'. Villages and stations are lit with Led's. All EU engines have white headlights and red rear so that adds to the fun. Passenger cars can have led interior lights. So the only change I will apply is to turn the heating thermostat lower - say 17°C and put on a warm sweater. But I'm planning to put the new 'hybrid solar panels' on the roof + install a batterie pack and get off the 'war- lords- mafia grit' ! BTW we don't watch TV and going to sleep less late is not only healthier but also saves energy... and perhaps create more fun time in the bed ! Not that negative - our grand parents lived that way anyhow. Success Sam.
I think the big point you've missed here is heating. Many modelers uses areas of their property which would be otherwise unheated (loft, garage, etc) for their layouts and work area, but I imagine most choose to heat them, at least while they are in there, active with their modeling. I imagine this would incur quite a significant cost, and unlike lighting it doesn't reduce costs elsewhere. What I mean by that is, if you're being energy usage conscious, you will likely only have the lights on in whichever room of your property you are using at a given time, therefore railway modelling isn't really adding cost in regards to lighting, you'll spend about the same on lighting regardless of what you do with those 2hrs a day as even if your not modelling you'll have a room lit somewhere in your house. Conversely, most people don't switch the heating on and off each room as they move around, and typically people are likely to have an automatic schedule to control when the heating is active or not, this is unlikely to be changed by modelling, therefore you are adding the bill to heat your modelling area, rather than just taking the bill from a room you're not currently using and spending it in a room you are using. I appreciate that if the modelling area is an area typically unheated, it's not likely attached to the central heating, so they likely only have that area heated when they are actively in there, using the room, but still, having heating on for a few hours a day in an additional room is unlikely to be an insignificant cost.
Yes heating is a big consideration. Models don't like extremes of temperature so you maybe either heating or cooling the room. When I had a lost layout we had a fan heater and a desk fan. In the hobby room this is not such a concern as its in the house.
This is cracking spiffing interesting Sam. You do continue to amaze us. Luckily within the EU, the old light bulbs have been prohibited since years; only LEDs are to be had. The most recent ones from Philips can easily emit enough luminescence for us at ~3.6W each (equivalent to ~40W from the old bulbs). Since we are quite the energy saving “maniacs” (lol), we have decided early on to not use any particular extra lights in the room, nor to model a night scene with LEDs in buildings, coaches and from devices on the layout, except in block signal lights (LEDs). We only have two 3.6W LEDs in the room, and that’s it for lights from the ceiling. You know, to some point, your own eyes (pupils) will very much compensate on their own. We have been energy conscious as an avid sport, so thank you for sharing the energy consumption of 3D printing which seems to be rather shocking to be candid. Another matter to consider is that with both of us at home in the hobby (or for anyone else being single), all other energy consumers in the house can of course be turned off as for compensation at least. We’ve made it a discipline to turn off everything that isn’t necessary at all times, even the smallest of things such as standby modes of devices. Heating is of course quite the different matter, but we do try to keep it at minimum as possible as well; just put on an extra jumper. There is lots one can do. Most people take all the modern energy consumption of luxury just too much for granted I suppose. Excellent content this, Cheerio.
The biggest cost is your heating of your loft. By a country mile. However turning your calculations on their head, all the energy you use up there turns to heat. This in turn means your heater doesn't have to work so hard, and living in Notts you probably have heating on 2/3rds of the year...so in that time your actual modelling costs that you have worked out are... FREE. ... Think about it. Good video mate. Cheers. Gary
Sam this a great, and much needed, the media have got all whipped into frenzy to a degree in that we will afford nothing. and sue, we are all going to be affected with the the way the world is right now ( and some of it is just bonkers) and sadly some people will be affected more than others. But what you have done is explain something in a way we can understand, and put into perspective, model trains and running my PC are important to me, and now I know I know what its going to cost, I sometimes compare costs of things to cost of coffee from well known takeaways beginning with C or S, I can have many hours of pleasure from my trains compared to cost of a single coffee! I made the change to LED lamps a few years ago it does make a huge difference. This video is just excellent
Good video as always Sam, my local railway club has been asked to turn off the lights on their layout as their location is in a government-owned building. Makes the layout look a bit dead when we do night operations but it's fine.
Wow - that's quite dramatic isn't it? Maybe you could fit some LEDs and run those if you haven't already? So much cheaper to run! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Buy a diesel generator to run the light, I'm sure the government won't mind that and the fumes aren't dangerous at all! Personally I've been running my house off of a steam generator for years now
I know it would be very hard to work out but I imagine because of the kinds of locations model railways often are, sheds, lofts, garages, utility rooms, they need more heating than other places in the house, meaning it will probably be the thing that be the highest difference between watching TV in the living room for example. Like my garage is barely any different from the outside temperatures whereas with no heating my living room is warmer than that naturally.
Yes true, but heat is essential whether you're modelling or not, and the fact that most people use gas would complicate it. But yes, clearly heating is a very significant expense these days. I decided to just focus on the modelling side, with the exception of lighting, just because that's an interesting one. Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Electricity prices are the last thing any modeller needs to worry about when it comes to the hobby. Compared to 15 years ago the prices of locos are ridiculous now. Way beyond that of inflation. If you can afford a £200 loco you can afford the electricity to power it.
Note that the rate of inflation is an estimation based on the cost increase on a basket of goods. Some of the goods in the basket have increased in cost significantly, some slightly and others gone down. Re model trains the cost to suppliers is much more than the published rate of inflation. Factories in China charge in usd (not gbp) so any reduction in value of gbp is a higher cost. The value of gbp vs usd is half it was c. 12yrs ago. Cost of raw materials has been huge increases (esp electrical componentry) and cost of shipping has more than doubled. If the rate of inflation was measured on the cost of model railway manufacture and shipping (in gbp terms) it would be much much higher than 10%. Of course doesn't explain why Hornby and bachmann are inflating their prices but dapol and accurascale are not. Maybe dapol and accurascale have negotiated contracts and hedged their fx exposure at opportune market rates set a few years back and bachmann and Hornby have not planned accordingly?
Even better, my layout uses natural light (when it's light outside!) As I'm sure alot of others do too. Very informative video, and certainly a good excuse to run the railway over watching TV!
good point....i have 3 very good and brilliant overhead lights to illuminate the layout...although all LEDs it still uses quite a bit....so daytime op it is....😀
Don't forget that there is a continuous rating (so the power used goes slightly down over time) - it is cheaper to continuously run your trains (and by extension having the room lights stay on) than to stop and start (good for display layouts).
Yes that's true, to start a locomotive uses marginally more power than when it's running continuously, but at least for locos this is negligible because they reach the desired speed so quickly - it's an interesting point though! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
This has been a question I've thought about for a while so it's nice to see a video actually covering said question. I wonder what it's like for much older locos like Triang or Dublo models because they seem to need more power to go than the efficient modern motors
A very informative video. It gets you thinking about the cost of electricity for the various devices we have in our homes. At least we have some control over the energy efficiency of the devices we buy, how and when we use them, and when we turn them off. The actual direct cost in electricity of the hobby is small compared to lighting, watching TV, computers/gaming consoles so a green light to us all spending more time on the hobby.
I love your channel Sam! I just watched your B2 Peckett video as I’m thinking of adding one to my small collection. Your videos help a lot and thanks to you I was confident when I bought my LNER D16/3 4-4-0 8802. Keep up the amazing work ❤
Interesting stuff Sam,the average price of a pint in my local is £5.60,yet i can go to Tescos and buy four bottles of the same beer for £6 which are very very close to a pint! Again if you are a smoker they now cost a fortune,everything is expensive but you have to have some enjoyment in life,and if that is running trains i think people would cut something else out,just to have that pleasure.
Thanks Sam, very good information. A good guestimate on what we could be spending. I think your figures are a good guide and if modellers are careful with their usage, the hobby will be effective and still affordable providing the consumption of electricity is used carefully. One thing to remember is to turn off a device or accessory if not being used. For example, building lights and street lights for animation only switched on for effect. At this time of year, lighting in a room , is invariably more than in spring, summer and some autumn . I also use a small rechargeable handheld hoover. Which only needs charging a short time a week. One of the things I am using to use building lights, to have a limited time usage is a power pack (used for Xmas decorations) to light buildings and street lights. 2xAA batteries. This lasts approximately 6 - 8 hours and a pack from Poundland will cost between £1 and £1.50 which will last about 30 - 40 hours, again depending upon constant usage, number of lights. If resistors are used, power consumption is reduced slightly, but on average, an hour a day is reasonable.
Yes that is true! I assumed that you'd be heating your space whether or not you were modelling, so I focused on specific modelling activities for this video, but yes that's a significant one! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Try comparing the cost compared to using a kettle or using 'all the lights at the same time' or running the washing machine constantly. My missus does all the latter but complains when I have any fun with my railway ! ! !
If you live in the United States a very similar power metering device is available under the name Kill-a-watt. Very handy tool for exactly the reasons shown in the vid. Thanks Sam!
Sam, thanks so much for exploring the practical aspects of this wonderful hobby. Obviously, there are some real world demands of every hobby, such as electricity costs and other major factors. It is well appreciated that you illustrated those demands
Dear Sir, Me old and wise dad taught me a very simple trick to augment the sensitivity of an amperimetre. One just have to coil one of the feeding wires and thus multiply the reading of the current. Obvious, of course, but useful. The current will be the reading divided by the number of coils around the sensor. Cheers from Brazil!
hi sam. well done in your very detailed usage of consumed electricity of a layout. although the tools you mentioned most would be used once a month or longer unless you are in the process in the building of a layout in which case they would be used more frequently and longer...
About you say, "Cheers," at the end of each video, this year marks the 40th anniversary of when a TV show with the name, "Cheers," aired over here in the U.S.
Sam unless I missed it, the biggest price/energy factor will surely be heating of the room. More necessary now winter is coming in. You've got what look to be electric storage/convection radiators in the loft, and I run when needed a small electric oil filled radiator in my attached garage based railway room to bring the temp from 10 to 16ish during winter evenings. I really need to upgrade from fluorescent tubes to led as well. Ps. Guessing a DCC layout would have a higher cost too.... Still cheaper then a TV and games console though.
Yes that's true Steve - I decided to keep this specific to modelling, as heating is more generic and many people use gas over electric! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
The only downside with led's is that they don't give out any heat. With an insulated building, fluorescent lighting can dramatically improve the heating, certainly works in my cladded and insulated shed. The downside in summer months means you don't like to turn on the lights.
Hi Sam, fantastic video, I don’t think about the use of electricity when playing trains…. Am ware but didn’t think about it. Use of the plug is great not just for a railway but also looking at everything else that one worries about. Kettle, TV, smart lights etc and how about Alexa devices which never get turned off.. Time to analyse some of the family devices around the house. Thank you for this interesting and revealing video. All best Marc
A properly machined bearing has a small clearance between the axle and the bearing. The lubrication oil forms a film between the two surfaces. In a well designed bearing the surfaces do not touch while in motion, the oil separates them, thus dramatically reducing friction and wear. Axles directly in the chassis don't have these smooth surfaces and fine clearances. The lubrication is not as effective in separating the surfaces.
An interesting video topic Sam. In the winter months, heating your roof space area will make all those negligible power readings pale into insignificance. I was surprised how little the PC draws considering most have a 500 watt PSu installed. Possibly that would only increase if gaming or maybe a graphics packaged was used and the electronics was started to get "stressed".
This is going to depend a lot on how well the roof is insulated. Heat rises, so often times the upper level remains at a warmer ambient temperature as a result. This might actually make heating the space less costly then say the main level. Of course, this assumes that there is some insulation between you and the outside. In the summer, the opposite will be true, where you will need more A/C to keep the temperature reasonable.
One thing that will help is to regularly clean out printer heads and glue guns, my experience shows cleaning weekly will provide noticeable results. Discouraging things like short circuits or poor connections are difficult to detect during normal usage. The chief offender is going to be analog controllers where usage is is affected by the room’s ambient temperature. Air conditioning is a budget buster. Heating is too, but AC is more expensive. Running things early or late can influence your costs. Then, it’s up to ourselves to figure out the optimum possible results and relax.
Something maybe overlooked is the cost of heating the loft space, assuming your modelling in the loft! Would be likely using electric heaters as most people do not have central heating up there. I'd say in winter it's going to break the budget for some people, some may also need a dehumidifier in such areas..... Great video, and something many people will be thinking about. How much cheaper is this hobby compared to running a games console TV and modem for example!
Great vid Sam, humbly think all your averages and estimates will be very helpful to a lot of modelers. Being aware of energy consumption is always a good thing to engage in.
Great job you've done here. You are really good at technical studies. It's interesting to see what are the main costs in electricity with practical examples. And very interesting and usefull info you gave us, thanks !
@Sam'sTrains went back to the source i heard that from. it's a rumour but a funny one though, forgot to mention the Q1 was going 60 miles an hour backwards and it was in testing
A very interesting video, but you didn't include heating and for everyone with a shed layout, heating and lighting costs will be significantly more and with winter fast approaching well the cost could be frightening ! I think a 2KW heater running for say 3 hours a day, 5 days a week, could cost an extra £15 a week, or £60 a month, so now it is getting expensive...
Hi Sam. If the energy prices go up any higher, you'll have to sit there pedalling away on a bike! Hey...there's a video in that! Get an alternator from eBay and and old bike. Rig it up and see how hard you've got to pedal to keep the trains running! Painting the upper part of the roof space brilliant white would reduce the illumination required. Thanks for uploading.
sam most railway layouts are mainly in sheds, lofts, and garages in the winter they all need to be heated now you can times that figure by 100, good interesting video .................tony
Current draw will vary with losses from the length of track and wiring as well, not an insignificant difference between a small circle and a large attic layout. Particularly for having the loco run at the same speed. Could be an interesting experiment.
Very interesting video very informative. Even though I live in the USA and know it costs me a little more for electricity then you over here. But to break it down as you do it is very interesting thank you for all your informative videos.
Love these types of videos Sam, keep them up. (wish I had the time to spend even 50p in electricity on running my railway, anyway you can 3d print a time machine to give me more modelling time?)
A factor to build into this sort orf calculation is *what* would you be doing if you weren't "plating with trains". Whatever you were doing (within reason) you'd need light and heat, so what you must ask yourself is *what is the difference* between "playing with trains" compared to the other activities (i'm sure there are some) that you could be getting up to? So - compared with Watching Telly or Playstationing or probably the most expensive, Going Down The Pub. If you can measure how expensive each of your leisure activities are you can clearly make a decision about which is the cheapest. However, if everyone did that the pubs would really all go out of business.
Interesting!! I now have some loft windows so can use free daylight - at least some of the time. Good to know the power consumption is low but with railway modelling it's the models themselves and all the consumables that's where the real costs are.
i think you should measure the DCC controller and if running any locos makes any difference to the price as DCC is constant 15v AC. really interesting video, would love to see a digital version.
I wonder how much a moderate size DCC layout would cost in comparison. Lots of electronics consuming electricity. Not only will your handset, and base station use power, but every loco on powered track, whether in use or not will have the decoder powered. You can add in controllers for switches, occupancy detectors, boosters should the layout be big enough, accessory controllers for lights, and so on. And if its computer controlled, you can add a PC to that as well. I suspect the consumption of DCC vs DC will be much higher.
You should look around the cost of light up coaches. Not the battery ones just the ones that use power from the tracks. Because sometimes coaches and cabooses and other Freight cars use power from the track to light up. Yes it slows down the train but does it use up more power trying to run a train AND light up couches.. again not the battery ones... because their on a battery...
Great video, Sam - cheers. Can we now infer that model railways use less energy than train simulators as well as (probably) being cheaper to buy all the bits/add-ons as well? Especially considering the price and power consumption of today's graphics cards.
Very interesting and some good tips Sam. Sadly I just can't stand those LED bulbs for the main lighting in a room, tried them but after just a few days I had to go back to the old bulbs (just didn't like the light they gave off). Think I'll get one of those monitors, as now curious as to what my 3d printer and laser engraver/cutter uses. I enjoy the variety on your channel, and always look forward to the next video and live streams.
Ahh sorry to hear that! Bear in mind some are better than others - you want ones that are capacitor smoothed (otherwise they flicker) and pay attention to the colour temperature... some of them give off a warm light, others cool. I’m 95% sure you’ll be happy with LEDs if you can only find the right ones!
Hi sam, I think you should try make your Manning Wardle L Class or your Gladstone 3d printer model again to see how much you have improved over the passed year, hope you're well.
Here's a interesting one. I wonder what the costs to live steam modellers is now the coal and gas supplies has increased along with the lubricating oils?
Ive got a 30 A breaker feeding the loft with 4mm cable, The current drawn with everything and 5 trains running on DCC is 17A, which is approximately 4 Kw So it would be costing me in the region of £2 per hour
The solar power loco experiment comes to mind 😜 Great video, didn't understand any of it haha im not clever enough to understand it but got the jist of it. 👍
ha....good point Sam....😀..have already wondered that myself and taken decisive action.......no more electric locos being run...diesel and steam only (and of course no more pacifics)...also max lenght of trains now 5 coaches...and goods trains maximum 10 waggons a time.....points are switched by hand and the overhead lighting in the modelroom reduced from 3 to 2 lights...when possible daytime ops only...so there you have it....i'll be getting money back from the electricity company soon...😅
When a new class of steam locomotives were about to be introduced on the New Zealand Railways the Chief Mechanical Engineer noted all the improvements and increased efficiencies and said "They'll be puffing pound notes out of their chimneys".
Isn't that the nature of transformers? The more you reduce the voltage the more inefficient the transformer becomes? They have switching power supplies that use Buck Converters to drop the DC voltage that are a little more efficient but I have only seen those in computers. Wonder if they make them for Train Sets too?
Yes transformers are inefficient - not sure why they're not using the switch modes for controllers... or maybe they are for some? The Gaugemasters weigh a tonne, which suggests they are using transformers (and you can hear the hum too) Thanks for watching, Sam :)
My solar powered train shed runs for free, though the solar panels and batteries cost a pretty penny. It's does however also power my pond filter and air pump. To be honest, anyone paying hornby or bachmann prices shouldn't need to worry about a few bob on electricity.
Very well done and presented something that I have never thought about. I wonder what the difference is between DCC and DC . On my system I run 4 or 5 train’s with sound and now some of the passenger coaches have lights .
Install a dimmer for the house lights and/or have the ability to turn selected sections of the lights off and on! Also have a LED desk lamp to turn on locally over your work space so you can turn off the house lights.🙂
What of the 300w-1000w heater on the wall to keep the loft warm on those winter nights. I can recommend Toolstation LED strip lights, 18w, very bright.
I changed my 2 attic tube house lights back in August as fluorescent tube lights are not energy efficient. I had 2 but only bright 2/3 of the attic, now it’s LEDs the whole attic is bright. Did the same with my garage too had 5 old tube ps now 3 LEDs
Part enthusiast. Part engineer. Part economist. Love this channel.
My most used tool is the Rivet-Counter 3000. It's a hand held device, like a speed gun in appearance, that instantly tells you what a manufacturer has gotten wrong on a model.
It was sold to me as an essential item by everyone in the online forums!
long live the H0/00 rivetcounter...!! does it count 76:1 only or does it work for 87:1 as well....??
and does it run on gas, oil or electric.....??
Hi Stratman.
The rivet counter has a settings switch that enables it to function on all gauges.
It runs on either petrol or diesel but if you choose petrol, it must be of the high octane rating.
These gadgets are sold mainly in large model shops due to their enormous size, and their cost, with a discount, is usually around £999.00p.
If you decide to use it indoors, you must get it insured and obtain a Government Health & Safety license at a cost of only £119.99p.
Hope this helps.
Paul. 👍
Heating the train room will be the most expensive cost. I can cut the lights in the room and enjoy trains running 'night time'. Villages and stations are lit with Led's. All EU engines have white headlights and red rear so that adds to the fun. Passenger cars can have led interior lights. So the only change I will apply is to turn the heating thermostat lower - say 17°C and put on a warm sweater. But I'm planning to put the new 'hybrid solar panels' on the roof + install a batterie pack and get off the 'war- lords- mafia grit' ! BTW we don't watch TV and going to sleep less late is not only healthier but also saves energy... and perhaps create more fun time in the bed ! Not that negative - our grand parents lived that way anyhow. Success Sam.
Shocking prices of energy which are almost in keeping with Bachmann loco price increase. :)
haha absolutely... at least we have some consistency now!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Both came from the east (apparently) !
Maybe Bachman have had to pay the higher electricity prices to run their business too
I think the big point you've missed here is heating. Many modelers uses areas of their property which would be otherwise unheated (loft, garage, etc) for their layouts and work area, but I imagine most choose to heat them, at least while they are in there, active with their modeling. I imagine this would incur quite a significant cost, and unlike lighting it doesn't reduce costs elsewhere. What I mean by that is, if you're being energy usage conscious, you will likely only have the lights on in whichever room of your property you are using at a given time, therefore railway modelling isn't really adding cost in regards to lighting, you'll spend about the same on lighting regardless of what you do with those 2hrs a day as even if your not modelling you'll have a room lit somewhere in your house. Conversely, most people don't switch the heating on and off each room as they move around, and typically people are likely to have an automatic schedule to control when the heating is active or not, this is unlikely to be changed by modelling, therefore you are adding the bill to heat your modelling area, rather than just taking the bill from a room you're not currently using and spending it in a room you are using. I appreciate that if the modelling area is an area typically unheated, it's not likely attached to the central heating, so they likely only have that area heated when they are actively in there, using the room, but still, having heating on for a few hours a day in an additional room is unlikely to be an insignificant cost.
Yes heating is a big consideration. Models don't like extremes of temperature so you maybe either heating or cooling the room. When I had a lost layout we had a fan heater and a desk fan. In the hobby room this is not such a concern as its in the house.
@@tiddles4x4 I hadn't considered effect on the models themselves actually, so yes, you may even have the heating on more than I'd thought...
This is cracking spiffing interesting Sam. You do continue to amaze us. Luckily within the EU, the old light bulbs have been prohibited since years; only LEDs are to be had. The most recent ones from Philips can easily emit enough luminescence for us at ~3.6W each (equivalent to ~40W from the old bulbs). Since we are quite the energy saving “maniacs” (lol), we have decided early on to not use any particular extra lights in the room, nor to model a night scene with LEDs in buildings, coaches and from devices on the layout, except in block signal lights (LEDs). We only have two 3.6W LEDs in the room, and that’s it for lights from the ceiling. You know, to some point, your own eyes (pupils) will very much compensate on their own.
We have been energy conscious as an avid sport, so thank you for sharing the energy consumption of 3D printing which seems to be rather shocking to be candid. Another matter to consider is that with both of us at home in the hobby (or for anyone else being single), all other energy consumers in the house can of course be turned off as for compensation at least.
We’ve made it a discipline to turn off everything that isn’t necessary at all times, even the smallest of things such as standby modes of devices.
Heating is of course quite the different matter, but we do try to keep it at minimum as possible as well; just put on an extra jumper. There is lots one can do. Most people take all the modern energy consumption of luxury just too much for granted I suppose. Excellent content this, Cheerio.
The biggest cost is your heating of your loft. By a country mile. However turning your calculations on their head, all the energy you use up there turns to heat. This in turn means your heater doesn't have to work so hard, and living in Notts you probably have heating on 2/3rds of the year...so in that time your actual modelling costs that you have worked out are... FREE. ...
Think about it. Good video mate. Cheers. Gary
Sam this a great, and much needed, the media have got all whipped into frenzy to a degree in that we will afford nothing. and sue, we are all going to be affected with the the way the world is right now ( and some of it is just bonkers) and sadly some people will be affected more than others. But what you have done is explain something in a way we can understand, and put into perspective, model trains and running my PC are important to me, and now I know I know what its going to cost, I sometimes compare costs of things to cost of coffee from well known takeaways beginning with C or S, I can have many hours of pleasure from my trains compared to cost of a single coffee! I made the change to LED lamps a few years ago it does make a huge difference. This video is just excellent
Hi Sam. Quite a few modellers us an airbrush for general painting and weathering.
Good video as always Sam, my local railway club has been asked to turn off the lights on their layout as their location is in a government-owned building.
Makes the layout look a bit dead when we do night operations but it's fine.
Wow - that's quite dramatic isn't it? Maybe you could fit some LEDs and run those if you haven't already? So much cheaper to run!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Buy a diesel generator to run the light, I'm sure the government won't mind that and the fumes aren't dangerous at all! Personally I've been running my house off of a steam generator for years now
Holy moly. You can always run the lighting on batteries, that you bring from home.
Is it really to do with power consumption or is it some thing else?🤔🤔🤔🤔
I know it would be very hard to work out but I imagine because of the kinds of locations model railways often are, sheds, lofts, garages, utility rooms, they need more heating than other places in the house, meaning it will probably be the thing that be the highest difference between watching TV in the living room for example. Like my garage is barely any different from the outside temperatures whereas with no heating my living room is warmer than that naturally.
Yes true, but heat is essential whether you're modelling or not, and the fact that most people use gas would complicate it. But yes, clearly heating is a very significant expense these days. I decided to just focus on the modelling side, with the exception of lighting, just because that's an interesting one.
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains I was mainly meaning that because of the cold locations they are often placed in they'd need more heat
Electricity prices are the last thing any modeller needs to worry about when it comes to the hobby. Compared to 15 years ago the prices of locos are ridiculous now. Way beyond that of inflation. If you can afford a £200 loco you can afford the electricity to power it.
True Matt - but not everybody knows that, so this video demonstrates it.
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Note that the rate of inflation is an estimation based on the cost increase on a basket of goods. Some of the goods in the basket have increased in cost significantly, some slightly and others gone down. Re model trains the cost to suppliers is much more than the published rate of inflation. Factories in China charge in usd (not gbp) so any reduction in value of gbp is a higher cost. The value of gbp vs usd is half it was c. 12yrs ago. Cost of raw materials has been huge increases (esp electrical componentry) and cost of shipping has more than doubled. If the rate of inflation was measured on the cost of model railway manufacture and shipping (in gbp terms) it would be much much higher than 10%. Of course doesn't explain why Hornby and bachmann are inflating their prices but dapol and accurascale are not. Maybe dapol and accurascale have negotiated contracts and hedged their fx exposure at opportune market rates set a few years back and bachmann and Hornby have not planned accordingly?
Even better, my layout uses natural light (when it's light outside!) As I'm sure alot of others do too.
Very informative video, and certainly a good excuse to run the railway over watching TV!
good point....i have 3 very good and brilliant overhead lights to illuminate the layout...although all LEDs it still uses quite a bit....so daytime op it is....😀
Don't forget that there is a continuous rating (so the power used goes slightly down over time) - it is cheaper to continuously run your trains (and by extension having the room lights stay on) than to stop and start (good for display layouts).
Yes that's true, to start a locomotive uses marginally more power than when it's running continuously, but at least for locos this is negligible because they reach the desired speed so quickly - it's an interesting point though!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains I can’t wait to play shapes on Wednesday.
Thank you, sam. Highly relevant content. Spot on.
This has been a question I've thought about for a while so it's nice to see a video actually covering said question. I wonder what it's like for much older locos like Triang or Dublo models because they seem to need more power to go than the efficient modern motors
A very informative video. It gets you thinking about the cost of electricity for the various devices we have in our homes. At least we have some control over the energy efficiency of the devices we buy, how and when we use them, and when we turn them off. The actual direct cost in electricity of the hobby is small compared to lighting, watching TV, computers/gaming consoles so a green light to us all spending more time on the hobby.
I love your channel Sam! I just watched your B2 Peckett video as I’m thinking of adding one to my small collection. Your videos help a lot and thanks to you I was confident when I bought my LNER D16/3 4-4-0 8802. Keep up the amazing work ❤
Interesting stuff Sam,the average price of a pint in my local is £5.60,yet i can go to Tescos and buy four bottles of the same beer for £6 which are very very close to a pint! Again if you are a smoker they now cost a fortune,everything is expensive but you have to have some enjoyment in life,and if that is running trains i think people would cut something else out,just to have that pleasure.
Thanks Sam, very good information. A good guestimate on what we could be spending. I think your figures are a good guide and if modellers are careful with their usage, the hobby will be effective and still affordable providing the consumption of electricity is used carefully. One thing to remember is to turn off a device or accessory if not being used. For example, building lights and street lights for animation only switched on for effect. At this time of year, lighting in a room , is invariably more than in spring, summer and some autumn . I also use a small rechargeable handheld hoover. Which only needs charging a short time a week. One of the things I am using to use building lights, to have a limited time usage is a power pack (used for Xmas decorations) to light buildings and street lights. 2xAA batteries. This lasts approximately 6 - 8 hours and a pack from Poundland will cost between £1 and £1.50 which will last about 30 - 40 hours, again depending upon constant usage, number of lights. If resistors are used, power consumption is reduced slightly, but on average, an hour a day is reasonable.
Don't forget heating! Loft/shed layouts are probably quite expensive there.
Yes that is true! I assumed that you'd be heating your space whether or not you were modelling, so I focused on specific modelling activities for this video, but yes that's a significant one!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Heating and lighting the room are going to be more than the loco certainly.
@@HulaViking depends. If the loco catches fire, it's free room heating.
Try comparing the cost compared to using a kettle or using 'all the lights at the same time' or running the washing machine constantly.
My missus does all the latter but complains when I have any fun with my railway ! ! !
Oh definitely - you can thoroughly discount that argument, haha!! ;D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Really appreciate this video Sam as I am working out my daily watt hours for a Offgrid Solar system to power my garage.
If you live in the United States a very similar power metering device is available under the name Kill-a-watt.
Very handy tool for exactly the reasons shown in the vid.
Thanks Sam!
Sam, thanks so much for exploring the practical aspects of this wonderful hobby. Obviously, there are some real world demands of every hobby, such as electricity costs and other major factors. It is well appreciated that you illustrated those demands
Hi Sam, Good Review, I run mine on a solar panel and 12 volt battery, and a converter , But what you done was good, All the best Brian 😃
VERY INFORMATIVE!! GOOD MAN THAT MAN ! TOTALLY ENJOYED 👍👍👍
The electric heater in the loft/shed/garage is going to cost more than all of the other things put together.
i live in uk too, so im going to relate to this lol
Cool! Hopefully it's informative for you!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Dear Sir,
Me old and wise dad taught me a very simple trick to augment the sensitivity of an amperimetre. One just have to coil one of the feeding wires and thus multiply the reading of the current. Obvious, of course, but useful. The current will be the reading divided by the number of coils around the sensor.
Cheers from Brazil!
The BIG cost is on the wall behind you - heat! If electric - that is 1 - 2 KW.
Hi Sam, great video, just for interest any idea how O gauge compares with OO.
Many thanks
Paul
hi sam. well done in your very detailed usage of consumed electricity of a layout. although the tools you mentioned most would be used once a month or longer unless you are in the process in the building of a layout in which case they would be used more frequently and longer...
About you say, "Cheers," at the end of each video, this year marks the 40th anniversary of when a TV show with the name, "Cheers," aired over here in the U.S.
Ooh interesting - I haven't heard of that one!!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Sam unless I missed it, the biggest price/energy factor will surely be heating of the room. More necessary now winter is coming in.
You've got what look to be electric storage/convection radiators in the loft, and I run when needed a small electric oil filled radiator in my attached garage based railway room to bring the temp from 10 to 16ish during winter evenings.
I really need to upgrade from fluorescent tubes to led as well.
Ps. Guessing a DCC layout would have a higher cost too.... Still cheaper then a TV and games console though.
Yes that's true Steve - I decided to keep this specific to modelling, as heating is more generic and many people use gas over electric!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
The only downside with led's is that they don't give out any heat. With an insulated building, fluorescent lighting can dramatically improve the heating, certainly works in my cladded and insulated shed. The downside in summer months means you don't like to turn on the lights.
Experiment Idea: see how far you can get a 00 gauge loco to jump through the air. 👍
Hi Sam, fantastic video, I don’t think about the use of electricity when playing trains…. Am ware but didn’t think about it. Use of the plug is great not just for a railway but also looking at everything else that one worries about. Kettle, TV, smart lights etc and how about Alexa devices which never get turned off.. Time to analyse some of the family devices around the house. Thank you for this interesting and revealing video. All best Marc
Hey Sam, doing electricity in Physics at school currently, this video has taught me more than the school is!
hahaha that's very good to hear, haha!! ;D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
You need to change schools.
A properly machined bearing has a small clearance between the axle and the bearing. The lubrication oil forms a film between the two surfaces. In a well designed bearing the surfaces do not touch while in motion, the oil separates them, thus dramatically reducing friction and wear. Axles directly in the chassis don't have these smooth surfaces and fine clearances. The lubrication is not as effective in separating the surfaces.
Many thanks for this video, the Google doc is especially helpful :)
An interesting video topic Sam. In the winter months, heating your roof space area will make all those negligible power readings pale into insignificance. I was surprised how little the PC draws considering most have a 500 watt PSu installed. Possibly that would only increase if gaming or maybe a graphics packaged was used and the electronics was started to get "stressed".
This is going to depend a lot on how well the roof is insulated. Heat rises, so often times the upper level remains at a warmer ambient temperature as a result. This might actually make heating the space less costly then say the main level. Of course, this assumes that there is some insulation between you and the outside. In the summer, the opposite will be true, where you will need more A/C to keep the temperature reasonable.
Barely any computers use 500w unless they are gaming pcs. If it has a 500w power supply it will use 10-50% normally
Interesting Sam - never really thought about the 'Money Side' of it!!! 🤔🚂🚂🚂
One thing that will help is to regularly clean out printer heads and glue guns, my experience shows cleaning weekly will provide noticeable results. Discouraging things like short circuits or poor connections are difficult to detect during normal usage. The chief offender is going to be analog controllers where usage is is affected by the room’s ambient temperature. Air conditioning is a budget buster. Heating is too, but AC is more expensive. Running things early or late can influence your costs. Then, it’s up to ourselves to figure out the optimum possible results and relax.
Something maybe overlooked is the cost of heating the loft space, assuming your modelling in the loft! Would be likely using electric heaters as most people do not have central heating up there. I'd say in winter it's going to break the budget for some people, some may also need a dehumidifier in such areas..... Great video, and something many people will be thinking about. How much cheaper is this hobby compared to running a games console TV and modem for example!
Great vid Sam, humbly think all your averages and estimates will be very helpful to a lot of modelers. Being aware of energy consumption is always a good thing to engage in.
Great job you've done here. You are really good at technical studies. It's interesting to see what are the main costs in electricity with practical examples. And very interesting and usefull info you gave us, thanks !
@Sam'sTrains went back to the source i heard that from. it's a rumour but a funny one though, forgot to mention the Q1 was going 60 miles an hour backwards and it was in testing
haha wow - if true that must have been a sight!!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Interesting video Sam
Thanks David! :D
A very interesting video, but you didn't include heating and for everyone with a shed layout, heating and lighting costs will be significantly more and with winter fast approaching well the cost could be frightening ! I think a 2KW heater running for say 3 hours a day, 5 days a week, could cost an extra £15 a week, or £60 a month, so now it is getting expensive...
I hope you don't need to switch on that heater on your wall. Costs woukd be a lot more for those who run a layout in their shed or garage
excellent video - very informative in these current mad and bad times thank you
that why I use a large battery pack to power my layout last a few hours before it run out
Oh interesting! How do you charge the battery??
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains into the main but charges very fast get about 8 hours out off it
P = R * (I^2) in case of AC. Lighting the layout room possibly costs more.
Hi Sam. If the energy prices go up any higher, you'll have to sit there pedalling away on a bike! Hey...there's a video in that! Get an alternator from eBay and and old bike. Rig it up and see how hard you've got to pedal to keep the trains running! Painting the upper part of the roof space brilliant white would reduce the illumination required. Thanks for uploading.
sam most railway layouts are mainly in sheds, lofts, and garages in the winter they all need to be heated now you can times that figure by 100, good interesting video .................tony
Current draw will vary with losses from the length of track and wiring as well, not an insignificant difference between a small circle and a large attic layout. Particularly for having the loco run at the same speed. Could be an interesting experiment.
Thanks for that because I wanted to know what the cost of your 3D printer would cost. You have now answered the question.
Very interesting video very informative. Even though I live in the USA and know it costs me a little more for electricity then you over here. But to break it down as you do it is very interesting thank you for all your informative videos.
Thanks a lot Louis - yes it'll work slightly different for you, but you can adapt this data to help you if you want!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
thanks sam. interesting to see how much my garden railways cost.
good thing you are a youtube creator millionaire who doesnt have to worry about energy bills then
Great conclusion! Railway modelling is cheaper than browsing Facebook on a pc!
Love these types of videos Sam, keep them up.
(wish I had the time to spend even 50p in electricity on running my railway, anyway you can 3d print a time machine to give me more modelling time?)
A factor to build into this sort orf calculation is *what* would you be doing if you weren't "plating with trains". Whatever you were doing (within reason) you'd need light and heat, so what you must ask yourself is *what is the difference* between "playing with trains" compared to the other activities (i'm sure there are some) that you could be getting up to?
So - compared with Watching Telly or Playstationing or probably the most expensive, Going Down The Pub.
If you can measure how expensive each of your leisure activities are you can clearly make a decision about which is the cheapest.
However, if everyone did that the pubs would really all go out of business.
Some modelers are using an airbrush with an air compressor.
Thanks for this video Sam, it will be quite useful.
Thankyou very much for a useful and informative video.
Thanks for doing this, no body else who does youtube railway modeling stuff has done anything like this,.
Interesting!! I now have some loft windows so can use free daylight - at least some of the time. Good to know the power consumption is low but with railway modelling it's the models themselves and all the consumables that's where the real costs are.
Any day now Hornby your going to release the BR 2MT (I was thinking about it all day yesterday)
Cheers Jasper & Willow
Are they?? That's very exciting news! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
According to latest figures from Hornby an arm and a leg , it would be both arms and legs but one arm is reserved for gas and one leg for electricity
I was wondering this. Well done for the video.
Sam: What did your Model Railway Cost?
Thanks: EVERYTHING.
i think you should measure the DCC controller and if running any locos makes any difference to the price as DCC is constant 15v AC. really interesting video, would love to see a digital version.
The voltage may be constant, but the current won’t be.
I wonder how much a moderate size DCC layout would cost in comparison. Lots of electronics consuming electricity. Not only will your handset, and base station use power, but every loco on powered track, whether in use or not will have the decoder powered. You can add in controllers for switches, occupancy detectors, boosters should the layout be big enough, accessory controllers for lights, and so on. And if its computer controlled, you can add a PC to that as well. I suspect the consumption of DCC vs DC will be much higher.
You should look around the cost of light up coaches. Not the battery ones just the ones that use power from the tracks. Because sometimes coaches and cabooses and other Freight cars use power from the track to light up. Yes it slows down the train but does it use up more power trying to run a train AND light up couches.. again not the battery ones... because their on a battery...
Man Sam, making a great case for Plamo as a hobby here 😜 jkjk. Nice deep dive on this! Interesting look on an area of the hobby people don't consider!
Great video Sam
Well thought out and researched
Nick Australia
Great video, Sam - cheers. Can we now infer that model railways use less energy than train simulators as well as (probably) being cheaper to buy all the bits/add-ons as well? Especially considering the price and power consumption of today's graphics cards.
Very interesting sam to be honest I Don't care how much my layout costs to run I go there to forget about the crap that's going on 😂
I am interested how much coach lighting will coast on the weakly amount
Very interesting and some good tips Sam. Sadly I just can't stand those LED bulbs for the main lighting in a room, tried them but after just a few days I had to go back to the old bulbs (just didn't like the light they gave off). Think I'll get one of those monitors, as now curious as to what my 3d printer and laser engraver/cutter uses. I enjoy the variety on your channel, and always look forward to the next video and live streams.
Ahh sorry to hear that! Bear in mind some are better than others - you want ones that are capacitor smoothed (otherwise they flicker) and pay attention to the colour temperature... some of them give off a warm light, others cool. I’m 95% sure you’ll be happy with LEDs if you can only find the right ones!
Hi sam, I think you should try make your Manning Wardle L Class or your Gladstone 3d printer model again to see how much you have improved over the passed year, hope you're well.
Fascinating stuff Sam.
Awesome video Sam's trains
Thanks Brian! :D
@@SamsTrains you're welcome my dear friend
Here's a interesting one. I wonder what the costs to live steam modellers is now the coal and gas supplies has increased along with the lubricating oils?
Ive got a 30 A breaker feeding the loft with 4mm cable, The current drawn with everything and 5 trains running on DCC is 17A, which is approximately 4 Kw So it would be costing me in the region of £2 per hour
The solar power loco experiment comes to mind 😜
Great video, didn't understand any of it haha im not clever enough to understand it but got the jist of it. 👍
Why I'm very happy to have clockwork and live steam engines in the collection, the trains will keep rolling even when the power isn't flowing.
ha....good point Sam....😀..have already wondered that myself and taken decisive action.......no more electric locos being run...diesel and steam only (and of course no more pacifics)...also max lenght of trains now 5 coaches...and goods trains maximum 10 waggons a time.....points are switched by hand and the overhead lighting in the modelroom reduced from 3 to 2 lights...when possible daytime ops only...so there you have it....i'll be getting money back from the electricity company soon...😅
When a new class of steam locomotives were about to be introduced on the New Zealand Railways the Chief Mechanical Engineer noted all the improvements and increased efficiencies and said "They'll be puffing pound notes out of their chimneys".
Ooo is that a Clan I see?
Where?
It may be! ;D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Isn't that the nature of transformers? The more you reduce the voltage the more inefficient the transformer becomes? They have switching power supplies that use Buck Converters to drop the DC voltage that are a little more efficient but I have only seen those in computers. Wonder if they make them for Train Sets too?
Yes transformers are inefficient - not sure why they're not using the switch modes for controllers... or maybe they are for some? The Gaugemasters weigh a tonne, which suggests they are using transformers (and you can hear the hum too)
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Quite different from your regular fair. This is an excellent video, very informative. I found it quite interesting. Thanks!
recharging batteries uses far more power than they store
My solar powered train shed runs for free, though the solar panels and batteries cost a pretty penny. It's does however also power my pond filter and air pump. To be honest, anyone paying hornby or bachmann prices shouldn't need to worry about a few bob on electricity.
Very well done and presented something that I have never thought about. I wonder what the difference is between DCC and DC . On my system I run 4 or 5 train’s with sound and now some of the passenger coaches have lights .
Install a dimmer for the house lights and/or have the ability to turn selected sections of the lights off and on! Also have a LED desk lamp to turn on locally over your work space so you can turn off the house lights.🙂
are there still people which don't have LED lights in their homes...??
@@stratman9449
I am sure a few don't-they have compact florescents.😉
@@stratman9449 I have a mixture of all three: incandescent, mini-fluorescent and LED.
A thoroughly interesting and informative video.
Delighted to say my trains run on solar. I'm off grid in Hawaii which helps a lot.
What of the 300w-1000w heater on the wall to keep the loft warm on those winter nights.
I can recommend Toolstation LED strip lights, 18w, very bright.
It’s gas, so I couldn’t measure that in the same way!
Thanks as always Sam 👍
I changed my 2 attic tube house lights back in August as fluorescent tube lights are not energy efficient. I had 2 but only bright 2/3 of the attic, now it’s LEDs the whole attic is bright. Did the same with my garage too had 5 old tube ps now 3 LEDs