The Gnostic View of Women
Вставка
- Опубліковано 2 жов 2024
- Popular authors want to portray Gnosticism as a system that elevated women and the "divine feminine", however, when you read the actual Gnostic texts, you get a quite different picture. Check this out!
Nobody speaks truth to power like Mike! Lord please continue to raise up men like this🔔🙏🏻❤️
I missed it. Who in power was being corrected or rebuked, either directly or indirectly?
Wow. Dr Heiser really 'rolled his sleeves' and got the work done.
Yeah, very much like Islam. They tell you one thing and when you look up the actual sources, its completely and horribly different. "When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it." John 8:44
You do realize that Islam is the foundation of your fake western monetized christianity. Jesus was a "muslim" so was Mary....you have no clue
@@GeorgeFhore You certainly are ignorant. Islam was invented in the 600 AD range. Very little proof that your prophet even existed.
Sam Shamoun is very good at leading people to the truth when it comes to islam and a few other "religions"
@@GeorgeFhore lies.
Interestingly, Islam seems to have lifted a lot of their understanding of Christianity from heretical Gnostic texts. Just yesterday Dr Wood did a livestream about it. There's been people pointing this out, that Islam is little more than Christian heresy run amok and turned into a cult by a warlord, for a long time. I think there's a strong case to be made.
Why did I not find Michael a long time ago?!?! He satisfies my zeal!
He makes me wish I'd gone back to grad school for an additional degree!
I miss him. I learned a lot from him.
Same here. Tear up thinking about it sometimes. God, through this man, changed me forever.
@@Mk21Diver did he die?
@@kassd4169 he passed away a few years ago. Huge loss for the community.
@@kassd4169 What? But I've just discovered the channel. >
@@kassd4169 Pancreatic cancer - 2/20/23 RIP
The mistreatment of women by evil men in the Church is completely antithetical to Scripture. The trinity is exhibited in a Christian marriage. Christ is the head, and the wife is to submit to her husband as her spiritual covering, and the husband is to love his wife as Christ loved the Church. Men, let's think about that last part for a minute. I'm primarily talking to myself, as I am no longer married, but both husbands and wives are to love one another unconditionally, and always point each other toward our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. I'm not talking about the roles of women and men in the church in this comment, but a husband should NEVER in any way force his wife into Godly submission to Him, and if she is better at finances than you are, let her manage them. We cannot tell our wives "honey, I'm buying a boat, and you need to submit to my decision". While this is a ridiculous example, this exact scenario came out in a church I attended many years ago, and I hope that husband repented of that perverted mindset of Godly submission. Women have similar behaviors that can arise, but they present themselves differently. That wasn't the subject of the video I'm commenting on, but I'd be happy to discuss.
I sure wish Mike was around to go toe to toe with the Greek language expert who was just on Danny Jones podcast. The things he claimed about Jesus were the most evil things I've ever heard in my life.
do you have the link?
@@GeorgeFhore Danny Brown's pod. Latest one from earlier today. Guest is Ammon Hillman. Pure wicked - more so than anything I've ever heard. Beware
iirc I think comments with links to anywhere are auto deleted by youtube @@GeorgeFhore
It's Danny Jones not Danny brown lol Danny brown is a rapper
@@MichaelGMoney You're right lol. Corrected. Thank you.
Thank you Dr. Heiser.
Sophia is the Word Wisdom in Greek. They basically elevated wisdom to godhood instead of being a gift from God. Gnosticism is its own, weird sort of polytheism. It's a complete heresy that has nothing to do with Christianity.
The one way it does interpret Christ correctly is the idea of the kingdom of God being within. I believe gnosis means self-knowledge.
But yes, it's got a lot of nonsense in it.
@@dogechrist'Gnosis' alone means 'knowledge'. 'Autognosis' would mean 'self-knowledge'.
@@Reubentheimitator6572 thank you.
@@dogechrist you're welcome
There is precedent for 'Sophia' in the old Hebrew texts, not in the way Gnostics conceive of her, but she is still personified as a female spirit. Khokhmah was originally feminine, though modern Kabbalists have coopted her into being male. Shekinah is a female spirit of wisdom in the Old Testament, but again, not as existing apart from God or as an adversary of God, so what you said about a gift would still be compatible with that and they knew that at the time. What the Gnostics were doing was not only heretical to Christianity but to Judaism, as well (even if you put aside the Jesus issue for Jews, that is).
I read that they were against procreating because that only prolongs the suffering here in the fallen world.
that sounds like the justification certain people use to condone abortion.
Gnosticism basically hates the whole physical world, deems it an aberration, and wants it undone. The hope is get out of this to recombine into the "true god" and experience the ultimate bliss. But that being absorbed into the Gnostic god sounds more like Carpenter's The Thing.
@@Hy-Brasil More like anti-natalists and extinctionists. I haven't heard that justification for abortion, but I tend to only pay attention to the arguments from the perspective of it being a basic human right for women and little girls not to be forced to give birth against their will, entrapped by abusive men, etc.
@@venus_envy Calling 'baby murder' a basic right already implies that your morals are seriously warped. Grape is a completely miniscule percentage of all abortions; vast majority are caused by the lack of self-accountability. For most, it's a convenience thing. The data is clear on this.
It's a completely demonic notion, and modern first worlders offer plethora of moralizing excuses to avoid not killing innocent life. On the same note, they jump at the first opportunity to call pets their 'children' and cry at the first notion of them being mistreated.
That's also a Buddhist belief that Buddhist monks have. But people who claim to be Buddhist in the West don't know anything about actual Buddhism.
I just occured to me yesterday… Probably the Holy Spirit… That all of the religions use and abuse sex… As a punishment, as a reward… Sex is something they get to do in heaven… 🤦♀️Christ puts sex in a precious cubbyhole… Puts parameters around it… And honors it …
never met the man but dang do i miss him
In the Gospel of Thomas, Peter complains about Mary and states that women are not worthy of life. The writing goes on to state that Jesus replies that he'll make her into a male. I know that this "gospel" isn't part of scripture, but have always wondered if the supposed reply was supposed to be a sarcastic comment?
I always wondered if his response was just to state that he would make men finally respect women like they respect other men.
Scripture says there is no giving in marriage in heaven. So all males that would make sense. But I don't understand about women nit having a divine spark or connection because I have found that connection?
@@lanettehitechew7427 I really don't think it means we would all be male because God has feminine attributes. Even though the scriptures never label God as a mother. There are scriptures that refer to the feminine nature of God.
@@modiaz2026 could have both attributes in one being. I think we all have both now
We all have Devine feminine and Devine male within us…finding balance of the two is key
So would you recommend covering this on a man's first date or third 😂
So they took the Devine spark from
The mother woman and gave it to men but kept it from her daughters smh wow.
Thanks for the heads up 😅
Thank you dear Michael for the rich teaching that you give us, even now, after your passing.
And this is where a later "peaceful" religion got its view on women... it borrowed very heavily from the gnostic texts... as well as from the Christians and Talmudic Jews.
Not just women got screwed up.
Purity did it's number yes
But think about how men r screwed by church.
Men cant even look at a women.
Just doing so we sin
Think how catholics forbid male masterbation.
Both sees got screwed
Purity culture of course blamed women but men got no end of shame for engaging in what women were blamed for.
Fast forward and now men cant go to gym or look and rape whistles
Society is screwed
😢😢😢
Ah yes, the peaceful religion founded by a warlord who "respects" 9 year old women
Yep
This is quite eye opening!
So what is he really saying? Im super slow. But I would like to understand all this.
I'm also missing the context.
the twisted perception on women by gnostics... Demeaning women with varioous characteristics . While Dan Brown took just half quotes making it appealing. Heiser suggests to ask sources and complete passages for consulting them and realize the complete version.
@@rcormonutube thanks for explaining. I didn't quite get this connection to Dan Brown. But then again I didn't read his books and wasn't familiar with how he displayed women in gnosticism.
Jonathan Pageau has the best take on Dan Brown (I LOL'd anyhow): "Man this guy doesn't know what he is talking about."
Keep in mind that Dan Brown took the whole thing for his first bestseller from the 80's book "Holy Blood, Holy Grail."
It's weird to hear Dr Heiser talking as though this idea of women is in any way different to mainstream Christian doctrine.
1 Corinthians and 2 Timothy are witness that the non "gnostic" Christians (with gnostic being a misleading and problematic term to begin with) had similar views towards women which we would hopefully find equally objectionable today, as anything found in the "gnostic" gospels.
Well when he reads “his scriptures” he interprets the best way he possibly can. Meanwhile when he reads “other” scriptures he gives the worse possible interpretation he can think of and say that’s what it means. Awful behavior
@@tookie36 typical behaviour, for the faithful.
Reverence for the Theotokos is about a 2000yo tradition among the orthodox. And the Marian traditions among the Catholics are at least 650yo.
AMEN ❤ AMAZING HEISER💜💜💜🧂
A good book can be found on libby regarding the gnostics.. under the great course series by da od brakke.
You can see why it was outlawed.
It re does just about everything.
🤣🤣🤣
They like to go into it being pro women. The creator had the spiritual world, the spiritual rulers were not God... they made a world we live in.. the female group side broke off and had a thought of her own.
It was always done by the group, like a birthing chamber of thought = realities..... so her breaking out was bad... she later goes back bit the evil that was created created men and women. Not God.
Also Jesus's spirit was from the female side... once she was back in the group...
However when referring to the God group they called it thrice male.... so having a female emotion didnt make you 100% women. Not when you're a spiritual
The context here isn’t very clear. I can’t tell exactly what he is arguing for or against 🤷🏼
Valentinianism had female prophets, teachers, healers, evangelists, and even priests. Further, they looked to female angels. I think a good argument is made that these quotes are poorly translated. After all, most gnostic texts are translations of translations. It seems that their comments on women are allegorical or in a code. Akin to saying Yin Yang as female and male when it means dark and light.
Of course, people were sexist in those times. The Roman church certainly has a particularly sexist track record. Obviously, I think in modern times, these texts are challenging because they're translations of translations and cannot be well-vetted in their own historical context, as that history was eliminated through genocide. People can believe what they will. Perhaps Heisr's view is correct, but it is well-known that they were speaking in code. This is just a small segment of Heiser's speech, but it would academically be inaccurate to say the texts should be interpreted literally.
The Roman church still does. Thanks for your comment, it's interesting.
And he knows this. Which makes this kind of interpretation from him awful
How could taking the text not literally improve any of the implications for women?
@@dawnhalver one way of interpreting the story of Adam and Eve would be that Adam and Eve represent parts of our individual being so every person has an “Adam” identity as well as an Eve identity, as well as a serpent, as well as a identity of “god” within them.
In the creation story god creates Adam and then from Adam creates Eve. So in gnostic ideas this seperation creates chaos and disorder so we begin to unify our life to god. Symbolically this can become joining our Eve nature back to our Adam nature. And unifying everything back to God.
I’m not saying this is correct but it wouldn’t mean women are “less than”. Much like the yin and Yang. They represent parts of the whole
The poor Gnostics, oh so misunderstood. Just like Dan Brown, the great savior of humanity, told us.
Yeah, I'm sure the horrible things they write are just because of "errors in translation".
The thing with the Gnostics is that they contradict themselves so much that, if you want, you can read anything from their texts, can't you? Which makes them the perfect liars and deceivers. And apparently, they've succeeded in your case.
I wonder if it was Gnosticism that influenced St Augustine and others, like William Blake in Paradise Lost, to claim that men are higher and like God to women, who are lower creations?
Or was it just the curse against women in Genesis 3 that has kept men perpetually thinking that they are above women?
This is all way above my paygrade .
Yes sir!!
good luck for the gnostic that don't read.
Miss him😢
What happened to him
@@SparksForces passed away from cancer sadly
yikes, the gnostics were wild and gross
Ty
Perhaps leaning on our own understanding is the nexus of this conundrum.
What book was he reading from???
The gnostic gospel
🤯🫶🏻✝️
Why would you seduce that when the spark came from Sophia in the first place. The spark is in the atom the atom is the spark. So the woman has it just as Adam has it!
Going to Dan Brown for accurate Christianity is like going to Disney for wn accurate retelling of the source material.
Jesus lives ♥️ and is God 🙏🏻 Christ ✝️ and King 👑
You aren't going to meet Jesus.
You are gay. You are going to hell.
@@bobSeigar no I'm straight and am going to meet Jesus. Why do you think I'm gay?
Even "Biblical" Christianity is hardly accurate.
@@peterblock6964 False
And you "know" this, @@JadDragon, because "your betters" have told you what to believe.
I've learned a lot from him, but he misses some of the points entierely.
You can't be a Saint unless you have been a sinner. I didn't realize the need for Christ until I fell. He is missing a lot here. Christ wasn't literal in saying He would make Mary a man. He was teaching Peter.
@@highstrangeness1824 Teaching Peter not to hate women, I hope. His and Paul's (if certain letters aren't forgeries and let's face it they probably are) attitude's towards women make me wish Jesus just sat down and wrote the dang New Testament himself so half the human population doesn't have to suffer through the consequences of filtering divine revelation through a couple of first century chauvinists who seem to barely understand what Jesus is trying to teach them over half the time.
@@venus_envy
If anyone says that Peter or Paul has anything in their letters hating on women, the person has clearly not read the letters of Paul and Peter.
I love the gospel of Philip. I read over and over and like the bible Father reveals more and more. Father blesses those who know Him. ❤❤❤
Don't read gnostic lies and expect to find truth of God
@@JadDragon with dragon in your name, I don't think you have much wisdom at all. Gnosis/gnostic just means knowing. Seek truth always. The guy I video was wrong about the holy spirit. He is confused because the are two spirits. The holy spirit and just the spirit. One good to have the other we need to expell it from us and evil.
@@CathleenTrotto Gnosticism is nonsense
@@CathleenTrotto all of what you just said is wrong and made up. If you were seeking the truth you wouldn't be looking to gnosticism.
You people love getting upset at the word dragon. God is even proud of Leviathan the great sea dragon. You gonna hate dogs too cause some Bible verses are bad about dogs?
@@CathleenTrotto you have your own spirit and if you repent and believe you will get the Holy Spirit. Nothing about expelling our spirit. Bible tells us: “The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children.”
Evil spirits are around believers but never in them.
THE GNOSTIC TEXTS ARE SYMBOLIC THEY'RE NOT MEANT TO BE TAKEN LITERAL
IT'S AWESOME THAT YOU AUTHENTICATE TEXTS AND LANGUAGES
BUT YOU HAVE TO HAVE WISDOM TO DECIPHER THE SPIRITUAL MEANING
I agree with your comment on needing wisdom. When we are in relationship with Christ James says when we lack wisdom, ask for it. God bless you.
@JJHiller83 especially since Wisdom was a term used for the divine Feminine in the first temple liturgy, and the first temple liturgy was HEAVILY symbolic.
@@MichaelGMoney I'm referring to the wisdom Solomon received. Not some fictional fairytale
Your caps lock is on
There is no true spiritual meaning to gnostic texts as they don't share truth.
Stop chasing secrets and follow the open and truthful Lord.
Thomas is not Gnostic.
Yet again, Gnosticism is not, nor was it ever unified. "Expert of Gnosticism" is quite literally, oxymoronic.
Catholicism subordinates Eve... Literally making her from him.
Yet again, conflation of Basilideans, Thomasine Christians and Arian Gnostics.
Does this presenter actually believe Gospel of Thomas and the Gospel of Philip are from the same school of thought?
Here's some free Gnosis. Adam and Eve were punished for eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. I.e. ascribing to dualism. That which the Church pushes.
There is no Good and Evil. Both are one.
If they are one then how are they opposed to each other.
@@madelynhernandez7453 The same way you are your own biggest obstacle. Making yourself suffer should be objectively bad, yet it is how we grow, like muscle for example. Suffer now, reap later.
It is still you that tell yourself. Nah i wont workout today. It is also you who chooses to end that thought and do it anyway.
@@bobSeigar it doesn't have to be unified for us to be able to specify it as such.
Lots of Hindu beliefs aren't unified by are still Hindu.
Good and evil are not the same. You're literally just sharing gnostic lies. Follow God, not yourself.
@@JadDragon You have no idea what tf you are talking about and it's wild.
Gnosticism as a term is full on rejected by scholars.
They aren't the same? Then why commit Geno Side over it?
Also, don't be a petty woman and like your own comments. It's almost as pathetic as you are.
@@bobSeigar the gnostic is upset we're calling him a gnostic so has resorted to lying.
I highly recommend Elaine Pagels and Bart Ehrman's books on Gnosticism for starters. Happy studying!
no
Why? What have you learned?
@@MH-il1lk OK, don’t read the books. Some of us love learning. Others love to remain ignorant. Apparently you haven’t read those books so have a great day and week coming up.
I hope others buy the books and maybe we can have a conversation as we learn from different scholars
@@GeorgeFhore apparently we have another person who doesn’t desire to learn from critical scholars. I guess they know everything about gnosticism lol The arrogance of those who remain ignorant astonishes me still, but that’s usually what goes on in the Christian community. Can’t have a conversation with these people.
Don’t you just love it when somebody just replies, no? Remain uneducated, my friend. Save your money and buy ice cream.
@@gmac6503 The other guy was simply asking you why you recommend those particular books. Suggesting that he wants to remain ignorant doesn't help anybody. Explaining why you think those two books are good on this subject gives everybody else a chance to work out whether your recommendation is a good one or not. And, if it is a good one, whether to prioritise these books over the other ones they want to read but haven't yet.