@@JessHull some motors are wound as 2 parallel motors in one. Ive seen the 2 windings connected to 2 escs. It's probably not a great idea, but it can work.
@@9e05cherianpadipurackalvar6 in what means? That's an interesting question as many older RC systems used 2 brushed with one ESC and a common gear. High power, high temperature, high consumption, but less motor wear and better sound. The only problem I see inthis video is the lack of synchronicity, If one has morque load, with a common gear, the other helps. If weight is not a problem, how could efficiency ruins this config?
Yes, brushless motors have more difficulties than actually help. In another video here, I saw that you can't run two different manufacturers motors. But here, they seem to work OK. From my experience, when I tried to sync two brushless motors even with two ESC, it took nearly 3 minutes for the second motor to synchronize. Personally, I still prefer brushed motors, especially for boats. At least they work 100%, and you can be sure they will work on switch on action, and not wait for 5 minutes for pulse synchronization. Leo(Arch Tech & Eng)
Probably before your time :-D but Kontronik used to sell a "Twindrive set" for fixed-wing which consisted of two brushless motors (Fun 400-23) with a single ESC (Smile 40-6-12). This worked fine and was pretty popular at the time as ESCs cost a small fortune back then. Now both are super cheap so you might as well use an ESC per motor - then you can do fun mixing as well :-) PS I am still flying a Kontronik brushless setup from 2003 so it's lasted pretty well ... I did have to send the ESC back for new firmware when Lipos came out but they did that FOC!
If and only if both motors are lined up before attaching them to the shaft - both having the magnets precisely aligned with the coils. If you do that, if the magnets of each are lined up and the coils of each are lined up, then you've just made a taller motor. if the coils and magnets are NOT aligned, it'll just vibrate rather than spin.
Nice video. Have you ever thought of wiring two video transmitters to one camera with the idea of having both transmitters on the same channel to act as a diversity transmission outcome and having your goggles On the same reception channel?
Did all three motors have the same number of poles/magnets? I think having a different number would make it even more complicated. I was surprised that both started. Interesting experiment.
Pawel quick question: is there a way you could implement a "glide" mode in Inav? Where the flight controller fights to get keep the plane in the air with little or no throttle. I know that position hold existing but I assume it requires throttle. Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks man. Great channel by the way.
A diode on one phase going to ONE of the motors and the ESC NEEDS to be rated for at least 2x the current draw of both motors I've done this. There's also some elderly fellow from California who has done this as well and he did it in 2010 and it worked flawlessly.
Very interesting but what if you use 2 ESC connected independently to the motors but in parallel to the control signal? How to you make a X8 work with controllers that can control only 6 motors? Thank you
thats what I'm doing on some of my planes and it's working perfectly fine. If you don't use dshot you have to independently calibrate your esc's to do the same thing though
Of course when you fully stop one more than the other, they get wildly out of sync. I'm curious to see this done with propellors installed. They'd provide flywheel effect and the same amount of drag.
I Used this in a rc truck where the Motors are directly connect via a gear system. They never can get out of sync But as These Escs are getting realy cheap i buyed 2extra ones each for one Motor. Also the Starting Power is now better...
I would assume, kinda? Like the current in the motor phases should try to keep them in sync but I could imagine ripples in thr back emf doing strange things if there is some resonance between the motors.
Interesting... I tried this with boats years ago..was told it wouldn't work unless the motors were precisely timed and physically connected to keep them in sync .I didn't listen, tried w/o a physical link but synced using a hall sensor initially if I remember correctly) and they would go out of sync and burn up pretty quickly.....Boats are hard on electrical equipment to start with..lol..
I want to connect 2 motors in synch but counter-rotating and was hoping to see tests of cross-connecting instead of 2 different motors but good test thanks
And if the 2 centre wires were in series? But I guess there's no way to provide that configuration. If you took current sensing from the telemetry, could you drive a pitch change servo mech using that in place of torque sensing?
@@paulhope3401 I'm thinking size constraints. Instead of stacking the motors place them side by side and lock the bells rotation with a belt. But yeah it isn't to practical.
@@Quick-Flash I was thinking a shaft going through one motor in the middle of the plane to the one on the front (or rear) in a high power setup when achieving CG would otherwise involve adding dead weight to the opposite end of a plane when having a single large motor at eeither end of a fuse. I guess the space between both motors could still be utilsed for the electronics if you were clever with the wiring.
I'm gonna try two 2435 brushless motors on one of my hosim 9125 trucks. We will see if they stay sinked on the same spur gear. Ill lyk thansk for your video info giving me confidence it will work 👍🤘
@@dsmandrewa thats no problem, wire both escs to the same dshot output. The escs read the motor position too so they might just support each other. You'd have to make sure you wired them all right though, if you had 1 reverse and one normal with the same wiring bad things would probably happen.
I like your thinking, I reckon if you were able to sync them in INAV/Betaflight then perhaps.. but you probably wouldnt get the same 140A combined that you would on a quad because plane fuses typically have significantly less airflow going through them. Advantage- being able to stack them under a flight controller. Disadvantages- The wiring would be quite messy and as with quads.. If the ESC burns, it often also burns your FC. In this day and age with so many planes using FC's which already have onboard BEC's, I'm surprised no-one has brought out an FC mountable & sized plane ESC with the Quad tech, it would probably be quite popular. Thoughts?
@@paulhope3401 with dshot you don't even need to do that, even if they wern't synced it would just create an inbalance in power (I think) they'd still be reading the same zero crossings on the motor, just that one would be trying to accelerate it less. Yeah sure airflow is a thing but lets face it 140A is probably way more than you need even on 4s. More likely if your 60A motor was spread over 4 they'd share 15A each (hopefully). 100% we need some fplane/wing FC/ESC combos. Especially for 1/2s builds where keeping it light and compact is key.
@@frasersteen Yeah, that makes sense. I'm actually so intrigued by this question that I've asked it in the 'power systems' section of the RCG forum. There are some very clued up EE's on there that will no doubt be along shortly to tell us what is likely to happen.. See- www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?3716205-Wiring-a-4in1-quad-Esc-all-outputs-to-feed-one-motor
this would work on an rc car, if each motor were to be attached toa rear wheel, the momentum of the car (and ground traction of the wheels ) would keep both motors turning forcing them to stay in sync, or at least nudging the stopped motor to return to sync
Why all the video testers of youtube test on 2 unidentical motors? The question we wonder is will it work in reverse with 2 identical motors. Test it in more in-world applications please.
I have DC brushed Clodbuster… and why I’m looking at this video made by this nice gentleman.. brush as he mentioned has easy forward backward drive and now add the series parallel switch.. truck for 20 years of trail walking has done phenomenal. I see the brushless have the neutral transmission timing between the two motors. Is there a frequency switch or buffer. To recenter timing to The motors as they rotate!?! Now that’s a good question
Note they would have to be synced with the magnets and coils perfectly aligned. The ESC detects the instant that the magnet passes the coil. Without gears, it automatically syncs on start if there is no load.
They must identical, be mechanically synced with a 1:1 ratio AND with the same phase (alignment of windings/magnets). The latter is almost impossible to achieve since there is no easy way to tell if the phase (rotation angle of the shaft) of one motor is the same as the other. And even then it would be hard to mechanically perfectly align them.
@@TheTomy03ful yes they're RSII motors. What im saying is that the company "EMAX" is a pretty reliable company known for theyre motors particularly in high performance and racing
I’m more curious about 2 ESCs to 1 motor, to share the current load between the ESCs, or even more of a weird idea, running 6s over 2 x 3s ESCs - connecting the 2 escs in parallel to the battery? Or 3s battery and wiring the output differently from the 2 ESCs?
Yeah on forums (not everyone reads them) and I don't see many vids covering this. Not everyone reads all the forums and watches all the videos on UA-cam like you. It's always good to get a second opinion and updated information to cycle it to the new people in the community. Try being positive, bro.
I remember, about a decade ago, people playing with this concept with hand wound CD ROM motors. Then electronics started becoming dirt cheap.
Thanks
And for my second trick; 2 ESCs and 1 motor ;)
Grrr you beat me too it, that's what I was gonna suggest for giggles.
That will almost definitely end in magic smoke 😀
It has been done. Also I've been running 2 brushless motors off one esc for over 15 years
@@stevec7596 how do you do it?
@@JessHull some motors are wound as 2 parallel motors in one. Ive seen the 2 windings connected to 2 escs. It's probably not a great idea, but it can work.
I wonder if you had a common gear or pully so that the motors were always in sync if it would work better? woudl be fun to test out
rip efficiency
@@9e05cherianpadipurackalvar6 in what means? That's an interesting question as many older RC systems used 2 brushed with one ESC and a common gear. High power, high temperature, high consumption, but less motor wear and better sound. The only problem I see inthis video is the lack of synchronicity, If one has morque load, with a common gear, the other helps. If weight is not a problem, how could efficiency ruins this config?
Yes, brushless motors have more difficulties than actually help. In another video here, I saw that you can't run two different manufacturers motors. But here, they seem to work OK. From my experience, when I tried to sync two brushless motors even with two ESC, it took nearly 3 minutes for the second motor to synchronize. Personally, I still prefer brushed motors, especially for boats. At least they work 100%, and you can be sure they will work on switch on action, and not wait for 5 minutes for pulse synchronization. Leo(Arch Tech & Eng)
Yeah... Not a great idea. 😬
Thanks for the video, Pawel! 😊
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Pawel love your quirkiness! You’re definitely one of my favorite FPV UA-camrs! Keep it up! 🤘🏻
Thanks mate!
Probably before your time :-D but Kontronik used to sell a "Twindrive set" for fixed-wing which consisted of two brushless motors (Fun 400-23) with a single ESC (Smile 40-6-12). This worked fine and was pretty popular at the time as ESCs cost a small fortune back then. Now both are super cheap so you might as well use an ESC per motor - then you can do fun mixing as well :-) PS I am still flying a Kontronik brushless setup from 2003 so it's lasted pretty well ... I did have to send the ESC back for new firmware when Lipos came out but they did that FOC!
This should work, if 2 brushless motors are pulled together bye a gear to a common shaft
This is what i suggest, thus increasing the torque etc.
Yes...I was thinking the same thing.
@@MrApache64AH also increasing the mass adds magnetic Flux density and so on
If and only if both motors are lined up before attaching them to the shaft - both having the magnets precisely aligned with the coils. If you do that, if the magnets of each are lined up and the coils of each are lined up, then you've just made a taller motor. if the coils and magnets are NOT aligned, it'll just vibrate rather than spin.
Nice video. Have you ever thought of wiring two video transmitters to one camera with the idea of having both transmitters on the same channel to act as a diversity transmission outcome and having your goggles On the same reception channel?
Go on... build an X shape octocopter with matching motors, 4x ESC’s and see how it does with props on! 😀
It will fly well. Already tested ;)
Did all three motors have the same number of poles/magnets? I think having a different number would make it even more complicated. I was surprised that both started. Interesting experiment.
It's very likely they have the same number
That would be an excellent idea because of the weight but for now impossibile thank u for the video.
This gives me a great idea! Well it's either a great idea, or a really terrible idea. I'm going to totally have to try it now, thanks!
Go for it and have fun!
You could use it in a wing application where there is a puller and pusher, the rotations would cancel out any torque and thus should fly better.
I like the idea. If you ever tested this do let us know.
It was only yesterday when I was wondering about that on some ground vehicle... Now i know, thanks ;)
Pawel quick question: is there a way you could implement a "glide" mode in Inav? Where the flight controller fights to get keep the plane in the air with little or no throttle. I know that position hold existing but I assume it requires throttle. Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks man. Great channel by the way.
Not until iNav can use an airspeed sensor. Imo
@@rougeneon1997 I would think it could be linked to the barometer... so that specific code would want higher barometric pressure as a guide perhaps.
A diode on one phase going to ONE of the motors and the ESC NEEDS to be rated for at least 2x the current draw of both motors I've done this. There's also some elderly fellow from California who has done this as well and he did it in 2010 and it worked flawlessly.
Very interesting but what if you use 2 ESC connected independently to the motors but in parallel to the control signal? How to you make a X8 work with controllers that can control only 6 motors? Thank you
thats what I'm doing on some of my planes and it's working perfectly fine. If you don't use dshot you have to independently calibrate your esc's to do the same thing though
Of course when you fully stop one more than the other, they get wildly out of sync. I'm curious to see this done with propellors installed. They'd provide flywheel effect and the same amount of drag.
Thanks for the tests.
What happens if both motors use the same axel?
I Used this in a rc truck where the Motors are directly connect via a gear system. They never can get out of sync But as These Escs are getting realy cheap i buyed 2extra ones each for one Motor. Also the Starting Power is now better...
Excellent demo thanks.
Thank you Sir!
I would assume, kinda? Like the current in the motor phases should try to keep them in sync but I could imagine ripples in thr back emf doing strange things if there is some resonance between the motors.
That's my concern for my idea. Wonder if the ESC would handle the feedback?
Interesting... I tried this with boats years ago..was told it wouldn't work unless the motors were precisely timed and physically connected to keep them in sync .I didn't listen, tried w/o a physical link but synced using a hall sensor initially if I remember correctly) and they would go out of sync and burn up pretty quickly.....Boats are hard on electrical equipment to start with..lol..
I want to connect 2 motors in synch but counter-rotating and was hoping to see tests of cross-connecting instead of 2 different motors but good test thanks
Thank you very much, that was a question.
And if the 2 centre wires were in series? But I guess there's no way to provide that configuration. If you took current sensing from the telemetry, could you drive a pitch change servo mech using that in place of torque sensing?
Super video jak zawsze , dzieki 🍕🍻
Can I use this kind of esc on a danchee ride rock crawler or if not can you leave a link for 1 brushless esc and 2 motors if there is a thing
Hmm if you connected the shafts of two motors that might make it work. Might have a few small use cases.
just take a bigger motor
I was just thinking that exact same thing.. Struggling to imagine with what application that would be useful though.
@@paulhope3401 I'm thinking size constraints. Instead of stacking the motors place them side by side and lock the bells rotation with a belt. But yeah it isn't to practical.
@@Quick-Flash I was thinking a shaft going through one motor in the middle of the plane to the one on the front (or rear) in a high power setup when achieving CG would otherwise involve adding dead weight to the opposite end of a plane when having a single large motor at eeither end of a fuse.
I guess the space between both motors could still be utilsed for the electronics if you were clever with the wiring.
I'm gonna try two 2435 brushless motors on one of my hosim 9125 trucks. We will see if they stay sinked on the same spur gear. Ill lyk thansk for your video info giving me confidence it will work 👍🤘
What would happen if you simply relied on the traction of the tires to keep them synced?
Do you recommend a 4 in 1 esc for larger drone tarot 650 frame with a tarot Martin motor
Modern 4in1 should handle those big motors no problem. Only remember about capacitor
What if to put some diods between ESC and motors?
Why does the motors grind?
Yess!!!!! Thankyou!
No magic smoke? 🤷
Nice Video
Serious question, can 2 (or more) escs drive one motor? Could you for example use a 35A 4in1 on 1 motor for a 140A equivilent?
I dont believe it can unless you can sync the motor signals from the 2 escs
@@dsmandrewa thats no problem, wire both escs to the same dshot output. The escs read the motor position too so they might just support each other.
You'd have to make sure you wired them all right though, if you had 1 reverse and one normal with the same wiring bad things would probably happen.
I like your thinking, I reckon if you were able to sync them in INAV/Betaflight then perhaps.. but you probably wouldnt get the same 140A combined that you would on a quad because plane fuses typically have significantly less airflow going through them.
Advantage- being able to stack them under a flight controller.
Disadvantages- The wiring would be quite messy and as with quads.. If the ESC burns, it often also burns your FC.
In this day and age with so many planes using FC's which already have onboard BEC's, I'm surprised no-one has brought out an FC mountable & sized plane ESC with the Quad tech, it would probably be quite popular. Thoughts?
@@paulhope3401 with dshot you don't even need to do that, even if they wern't synced it would just create an inbalance in power (I think) they'd still be reading the same zero crossings on the motor, just that one would be trying to accelerate it less.
Yeah sure airflow is a thing but lets face it 140A is probably way more than you need even on 4s. More likely if your 60A motor was spread over 4 they'd share 15A each (hopefully).
100% we need some fplane/wing FC/ESC combos. Especially for 1/2s builds where keeping it light and compact is key.
@@frasersteen Yeah, that makes sense. I'm actually so intrigued by this question that I've asked it in the 'power systems' section of the RCG forum. There are some very clued up EE's on there that will no doubt be along shortly to tell us what is likely to happen..
See- www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?3716205-Wiring-a-4in1-quad-Esc-all-outputs-to-feed-one-motor
i wonder if the same applies for EDF brushless motors
This applies to every brushless motor
@@FPVUniversity thanks again for the video! learned quite a lot from this :D
What if there is a 775 motor and a brushless motor..?
2esc + 2 motors + 1pwm ? Is this possible ? Will it work?
yes
this would work on an rc car, if each motor were to be attached toa rear wheel, the momentum of the car (and ground traction of the wheels ) would keep both motors turning forcing them to stay in sync, or at least nudging the stopped motor to return to sync
What about drones which use 4 motors
Interesting, I have similar symptoms on a single motor and I blamed the ESC. Maybe I should try resoldering before changing
One phase on your motor might be damaged. It's one of the symproms
@@FPVUniversity thanks, I'll try swapping things about too and see if the fault moves
Hmm but what about two esc's on the same signal wire?
I'm glad you ask :) This experiment is on the works
I think it will not a problem as long you use pwm or other one way protocol without feedback. Bidirectional dshot will a problem I think..
If you mean two motors and two escs with one signal it works fine a lot of people run their twin engine planes this way.
Bardzo pomocny filmik
I always wandered if that was possible. I didn't think it would work at all
So one could definitively attach two identical brushless motors to just one esc if the two motors use the same shaft and are perfectly aligned.
yes
How about a timing belt between the motors or a gear
but then why not just to get a bigger motor?
@@FPVUniversity because it would be useful in some applications where you need 2 motors to be 100% mechanically timed. Like a dart blaster maybe?
Why all the video testers of youtube test on 2 unidentical motors? The question we wonder is will it work in reverse with 2 identical motors. Test it in more in-world applications please.
Yes sure can't work if load a different. The Bemf cross zero detection is the issue.... (Sensorless algo)
Just put props on & find it out to be totally impractical bcz on THRUST TEST u don't get even 10th the thrust
This seems quite viable for an RC car if the two motors are synced with a set of gears.
I have DC brushed Clodbuster… and why I’m looking at this video made by this nice gentleman.. brush as he mentioned has easy forward backward drive and now add the series parallel switch.. truck for 20 years of trail walking has done phenomenal. I see the brushless have the neutral transmission timing between the two motors.
Is there a frequency switch or buffer. To recenter timing to
The motors as they rotate!?! Now that’s a good question
Note they would have to be synced with the magnets and coils perfectly aligned. The ESC detects the instant that the magnet passes the coil. Without gears, it automatically syncs on start if there is no load.
They must identical, be mechanically synced with a 1:1 ratio AND with the same phase (alignment of windings/magnets). The latter is almost impossible to achieve since there is no easy way to tell if the phase (rotation angle of the shaft) of one motor is the same as the other. And even then it would be hard to mechanically perfectly align them.
I ran 1 esc on twin aircraft 10 yrs ago!
Do you recommend these motors? (Emax)
IMO, can't go wrong with Emax because they've just been around for so long if that's the answer you're looking for.
@@nite31fpv17 I thought the RS2 motors (in this video)
@@TheTomy03ful yes they're RSII motors. What im saying is that the company "EMAX" is a pretty reliable company known for theyre motors particularly in high performance and racing
@@nite31fpv17 I see.
I’m more curious about 2 ESCs to 1 motor, to share the current load between the ESCs, or even more of a weird idea, running 6s over 2 x 3s ESCs - connecting the 2 escs in parallel to the battery? Or 3s battery and wiring the output differently from the 2 ESCs?
That was interesting.
Yes, it can. But not with 3 or more motors. Why?
1 signal to 2 ESCs/2 motors works fine
Of course is does
You can run all the motors you want off a esc you just sync them
Handy little hobby tools
Learn something new every day!
🥃cheers🍻
Works better than a marriage...
2 ESCs and 1 motor, please
beware of this strange motor sound - it`s going to overheat
Umm if you foul a single motor you take risk of damaging the esc. So this would work fine if you kept your fingers off the motors lol....
Take a 2in1 ESC :)
Yes with outbdoubt
Like if you're coming from 2 girls 1 cup
Видео о том как не надо делать)
It’s terrible. Why would you want to do that?
back then ESCs were pricey so they would use this method for twin planes also it could be used for weight purposes if it is an issue
This has been covered many times in the RCGroups forums and on UA-cam. Try making some original content, bro.
Yeah on forums (not everyone reads them) and I don't see many vids covering this. Not everyone reads all the forums and watches all the videos on UA-cam like you. It's always good to get a second opinion and updated information to cycle it to the new people in the community. Try being positive, bro.