I never did like in the final season of Breaking Bad how it breaks up the tension by having Walter walk away from everything and then got caught after he had quit. It made it all seem sort of muddled. They wanted redemption for Walter but also consequences and it was... fine, but not as interesting and original as most of the series.
@@HeatherHolt Yes, I thought it was pretty neat collection of scenes that almost feels like a movie. Like how the critics described the Breaking Bad finale, it's "satisfying" but also a bit more deserved, since Jesse is far more sympathetic. It's definitely more of a "coda" to the series, as opposed to a logical ending. It's "fan service", which doesn't have to mean that it's bad. It's entertaining enough, not essential though.
@@MacabreStorytelling totaly agree Walt was a villian in the end and should have stayed that way. since thats what the show was building up to. For 4 seasons
@@MacabreStorytelling No, Breaking Bad actually told a story with an actual beginning, middle and end. Unlike the Sopranos which had no over all plot and an "ending" that only served to show how meaningless the entire show actually was.
It was contrived and sophomoric. Even with the hints and set up, it just didn't work. What was supposed to be a big bang was more like a "huh? Oh I get it, he's dead" thud.
@@ndogg20 Having Tony's death be a dramatic spectacle would have made the finale more entertaining, but it also would have taken away the elements of subversion and realism which a lot of people enjoy about the ending; I guess it's ultimately about whether you prefer to be entertained or to experience unique and memorable concepts
@@cheekbuster6909I think we all prefer to be entertained while experiencing unique and memorable concepts. Some times creatives forget about the entertainment part
He's not though. He still seems like he's bitten off more than he can chew. Outside if the last episode, Walter was a bumbling wannabe at the mercy of everyone else
While I do agree that The Sopranos ending is the superior finale, I do think Breaking Bad's works: I view it as Walt casting away his conflict between wanting to be a family man and a criminal, and finally embracing the part of him that enjoys being a criminal. I think BB's ending is quite subversive in that sense.
It was never a case of Walt righting the wrongs of his actions. It was about him accepting who he truly was, and stop lying to himself and those around him about why he did what he did
@@Onezy05 And it is implied that Walt was up in that cabin for quite a lot of time without leaving really at all. Probably wasn't much for him to do but to reflect.
@@Madmetalmaniac42069 I think that consciously, Walt thought he was doing it for his family as that was the natural rationalization for his actions. But unconsciously, it was all about his own selfish pride and ego, at wanting to achieve something in what had otherwise been a highly mundane life. I think that as Walt's actions became more and more questionable, he struggled more and more to understand the unconscious truth behind what he was doing. An important scene that comes to mind is when he punches the mirror after finding out his cancer is in remission. It should be a moment of celebration, that he's evaded death for the time being and is around for the continued love of his family. But in reality, it's deprived him of his justification for his actions, for the thrill and purpose he gets from the criminal lifestyle, reducing him from mighty Heisenberg to plain old Walter White. He's frustrated because it should be a rational moment of celebration, but he acts in a seemingly irrational manner as it conflicts with how he *really* feels. Easily one of the most important scenes in BrBa. Perhaps the most important.
What about the Sopranos finale was better? It wasn't even a finale.. it was a "we can't come up with a final scene" ending. Transitioning to a black screen is not my idea of genius. It comes off cheap. Breaking Bad actually had a legit ending.. a good one.
At 35:15 you say it seems like he’s learned the errors in his ways... absolutely not. What he was doing wasn’t to redeem himself, he never expressed remorse. He was just honest about who he was. He told skylar he did what he did for himself, but he never said to her he regretted it. He blamed the nazis for hanks death, not himself so he evaded accepting responsibility. I disagree with your claim that he was framed as a hero. He was a hero when he turned himself in to the DEA, but Gretchen and elliots interview snapped him back into his hatred. The finale is not about him being a hero, but reverting to his villainy with no remorse. He simply wants to conclude his story as the antagonist he’s accepted himself to be. He dies looking back on his glory days as a meth cook in satisfaction, not regret. He has not changed his ways, he regrets nothing, he simply concluded his story the only way he knew how: using his genius to provide for his family and tie up all loose ends remaining. He did not redeem himself or change his ways, he fully accepted who he was. He didn’t try and set things right he just indulged his criminal fantasy. It was about him accepting that he had broken bad all those years ago, and he stops pretending he’s something he’s not. He didn’t redeem himself, he damned himself and took great pleasure in doing it.
Macabre’s biggest mistake in this video is the notion that the show should’ve ended with season 4 and season 5 does nothing more than show Walt getting his comeuppance. Face off doesn’t work as the series finale because Walt’s character arc isn’t complete yet, he’s the most immoral and evil character on the show but in his mind he’s still has the delusional excuse of “doing it for the family.”. At the end of Granite state that delusion final falls apart and Gretchen’s assertion that the Walt they knew was gone finally takes hold, but in his heart Walter was always Heisenberg they just never truly knew him nor did anyone else. Walts decision to return regardless of the fact his family is gone and his life is ruined shows that Walt has come to terms with being an evil man, there’s no more delusions of justification, at the same time, he can now fully appreciate his success and status in the criminal underworld. Him returning and wasting Jacks crew wasn’t about avenging Hank or saving Jesse, to Walt it was about proving to himself and everyone else around him that Welker’s gang, and Lydia were no match for Heisenberg, in his final moments Walt basks in the glory of knowing he was simultaneously one of the best Meth cooks and one of the best criminal minds in the world, after all the obstacles, all the opposition in the end the legendary Heisenberg triumphs over all and his legacy of infamy will outlive him for years to come. I think Light Yagami is a more comparable character to Walt than Tony, key difference being that light never comes to terms with the fact that he’s evil despite being made a total fool of in his final moments.
Yes, this is what I was feeling better said. Breaking Bad was never a show about karma, it's about an evil and selfish person doing as he likes, and how everyone around him reacts to that.
One could say that he actually left the business and it was only Jessie's hatred that drove events to their eventually conclusion by teaming up with Hank and law enforcement, something Walter never saw coming. He called Jack and the nazis to kill jessie, whom he believed had found his stash. When he sees Hank he immediately panics and calls jack to go back and forget it. I don't agree that he was responsible for Hank's death. Of course this doesn't excuse him poisoning Brock or having 8 inmates clipped within two minutes and three prisons. Telling Jessie to kill Gale was still Jessie's choice and Walt's life was on the line. It was on the line because he had to save Jessie from getting himself killed and running over the two puns. Walt turned evil but not everything he did was evil.
In season 5 BB the new characters were only less threatening because Walter had ended the most threatening criminal organization in the area (Gus and pollos). He was now the top of the food chain, season 2 Walter would’ve been terrified of Declan or uncle jack. In season 5 he’s even more powerful than they are and more terrifying, they even know to say his name in respect when he asks. It really shows how he’s taken out all the other antagonists and by process of elimination become the worst person remaining.
@@saaimhaider8703 Yeah, and I think that's the main thesis here, that Season 4 finale would have seen him BECOME the biggest villain. Whereas Season 5's second half sees him get a redemption arc undoing the Authors original intent to turn Mr. Chips into Scarface. Tony Montana dies a villain, Walt doesn't, I think that's crucial to OP's overview of Season 5.
@@JaxonHaxon I disagree, because I see one key distinction in the character development and themes of Breaking Bad. I don't see Walt as moral or immoral, I see him as amoral. What Walt was, in my opinion, was a quintessential egotist; he wanted recognition and power, whether as savior or villain. Walt's villainy up to Ozymandias was his road to egotistic satiation, and during Ozymandias and Granite State we saw the wages of his villainy and his egotism through it denied. The Schwartzes' disavowment of him didn't set him on a redemptive course, it set him on a course of satiation through different means. Blackmailing the Schwartzes to use his money to set up a trust fund, eliminating the neo-Nazis, reconciling with Skylar, and rescuing Jesse was one final exercise of power over them.
I absolutely agree with your thoughts about The Soprano's finale, it's pure perfection in my book. Regarding Breaking Bad I think the point of the second part of season 5 it's to show that Walter finally embraced his dark side and became truly free which is the last thing missing in his villain transformation. Fortunately for the world he died at that very moment.
He knew blue meth was still being sold, which means he knew Jesse was at least working for the Nazi dudes. In Walt’s mind Jesse is his property and no one else can control him. So it’s all relevant.
I try to look at the ending of BB as not Walt suddenly doing another 360 and fixing his mistakes but more so his stubborn nature. He likes things to be taken care of, he likes to be in control, and so when he looks at the loose ends his life will leave he tries to tie it all up himself on his own terms. I also feel like a big catalyst to him even really returning to ABQ the way he does is hearing that blue is still being sold on the streets, and he’s possessive of his recipe and of his partner. There’s the amount of him that has forgiven Jesse for Hank but a bigger part, I believe, that doesn’t want anyone controlling Jesse and his blue sky meth other than him. Rewatch the sit down with Gus when Jesse has an issue about Thomas. Walt is on Gus’ side until Gus snaps at Jesse “look at me, not him” effectively removing Walt’s ownership over Jesse in a single sentence. That’s when he realizes Gus may be an issue down the road.
Exactly my thoughts. The ending isn't a redemption for Walt, it's him showing how far he'll go to be number one. He was pushed down all his life whether from Gretchen or social status or economic status. Thi is the catalyst for the show. Jesse has been in the meth business and was fine where he was at until walt came along and instantly wanted to be on top. This is what happens in the finally, he is at a lowest of lows and pushes his way to the top once again.
The instigating moment, though, was Walt seeing Gretchen and Elliot on (ugh) Charlie Rose taking all the credit for his work. It gave him the impetus to weave that into those loose ends to make it all work.
It's incredibly fitting that Junior has to be reminded of his time with La Cosa Nostra, and the only thing he actually remembers is playing catch with Tony.
When you have a thought lingering in your mind for a long time & can't find that thing anywhere, but suddenly someone uploads a full 40 MIN video about it!!
Great analysis but I just cannot see what happens at the end of BB as a victory, more like a small measure of damage control from the absolute crushing defeat of Ozymandias. His life is over his family hates him, they will have to live with his infamy for the rest of there lives he "may" have left them a relatively small amount of money but that is it.
You seem to have season 5 of BB pegged as rather optimistic and a redemption. To me, season 4 rather worked as the ‘happy end’. They could have stopped after that season and it would have been a fine wrap up for all intents and purposes with Walt (and Jesse) basically getting away with it. But then season 5 rolls around and basically all is turned to shit: Walt loses his family, his brother in law is killed, Pinkman sees the only person he cares for killed and himself used as a slave and Walt dies. Season 5 completes the series’ journey from a quirky Comedy Central comedy to an increasingly darker somber harsh drama.
Agreed. Season 5 of BrBa is def the darkest of them all, and its not even close. The first 5 episodes of season 5 are more of "Now WE run the business! Haha!" As that happens, we see this evil genius side of Walter come out, who he finally can be now that he is king. That gives those episodes an odd feeling, like although Jesse is happy and theyre making fat stacks yo, Walt is truly going into the dark. And finally... they shoot a fucking kid. They take part in the murder of a child. It's a rude awakening to what world they really live in, and from there it only spirals out of control, getting more and more depressing and fucked.
I think that the penultimate episode's ending muddies the water on Walt's motivations being selfless or selfish. When he watches Gretchen and Elliot disavow him, I think there's a lot more a bitter spite to having them live in fear and not necessarily as much of a heroic act to help his family. I also can't say Walt reconciled with Jesse or his family. At the end of the day even if that goodbye to Skylar and Jesse had more of a sentimental outlook they will not remember him that way, and they will still know him as the man that practically destroyed their lives. No amount of money is going to make Skylar have the same relationship with her sister again. Junior hates his father and Holly growing up will only be aware of his father as a monster drug dealer. Even if Walt recognized his selfish nature at the end I never saw it meaning much to everyone around him. His family has the money, but at what cost. Bit disorganized comment but those are my 2 cents. Great video either way. Watching this was the first thing I did after I finished the sopranos a couple hours ago. Great show
I always thought Tony gets whacked at the end. But god damn, your interpretation of Tony finally seeing the light in the last episode just added a whole another dimension that I never could’ve thought about.
Well the directer let it slip years ago. Tony dies. Bobby foreshadows exactly how it'd go. He later tried to make it a play your own adventure, but the dude who wrote it slipped it before realizing how powerful the speculation community needs shit to be open ended.
@@IAmTheDoctor00 think he said he originally planned for him to die at the end but decided to change the ending and leave it ambiguous to leave it to the imagination
I loved both the endings. Breaking Bad ties up every loose end, which is not how often things happen in real life, but it is a fictional show. Sopranos ends on a massive cliffhanger that was more unique in its own way. I love both the endings, but I would choose breaking bad slightly over Sopranos. I'm jk none of them are even close compared to game of thrones ending, which was a masterpiece 🙄😜
While Sopranos ends on a cliffhanger, it's not as big as people think. It's either Tony dies, or... well you just watched 6 seasons of what the alternative will be. It would be the exact same thing. Tony is the same person in the finale that he is in Episode 1, and his family kind of is too. If you think Tony lives, just start the whole series over and that's what his life would be like. Time is a flat circle.
Don’t mention these two mediocre shows on the same breath as Game of Thrones 😤😤. The ending of GOT was the biggest masterpiece of storytelling to ever exist. The Sapronos and Brekin Bad don’t come close!!!😤😤
Season 5 isn't necessary because walt needs to pay. Season 5 is necessary to complete the metaphor of Icarus. He flew too high and was struck down. Yes, Walt technically gets away with it, but he doesn't really get away with it. His empire has burned to the ground, his family despises him, and he's driven everyone he loves away from him
I don’t quite agree with your take on Walter White. It’s too black and white for me. I don’t think it’s just the fully evil man that was bubbling under the surface that gets revealed. Rather, it is a more complex mix. Walter is definitely shown not to have been as squeaky clean as we’re first led to believe. Especially ego and vanity are indeed strong drivers and have indeed been festering inside for a long time. But he also has made real choices for a ‘good’ life (being a teacher, a dad, etc). I read it more as him letting this ego get the better of him as he suddenly realizes the power he has developed. I also don’t see his reaction upon the news of the receding cancer as necessarily indicating his ‘true motivation’ as you put it. I see it rather as the venting of his fear when realizing his natural ‘out’ has all of a sudden completely disappeared. All of a sudden, he needs to face consequences of his choices and behavior again. The one thing he had ‘going for him’ that led him to his new found assertiveness now suddenly stripped away. Here he has 2 choices: cash in his chips and walk away (quit while he’s ahead) or double down and go for a fully criminal life. That’s why his true downfall starts there.
It was unbelievable watching while it was airing in real time. I had this strange personal connection to it. It’s the most captivating show I have ever experienced. No other show even came close, neither before nor after.
Brilliant analysis. I always knew a lot of the stuff in the Sopranos finale, but man, all the stuff about his family and Uncle Jun's last seen, leading to him being appreciative of his family...man, I never thought about THOSE little details. Nice.
Its amazing the things you pick up on when you rewatch the Sopranos a few times and deep dive into all the analyses out there. Like how in the final episode there's several scenes where Paulie and Patsy talk about arranging a hit on someone at the Bing. Presumably they're talking about Phil Leotardo but they never mention him specifically, and given that both have good reasons to see Tony whacked; revenge in Patsy's case and self preservation for Paulie (who was definitely aware of what Tony was thinking on their boat trip in Florida), I'm now entirely convinced they had Tony clipped.
I think the ending to Breaking Bad is still good, even very good. The thing is the Sopranos is genius. Breaking Bad is a more conventional story imo and never really defied genre in the way the Sopranos does. I’m sure Vince Gilligan could have tried to make the last season of BB something truly special and different, but instead there’s a lot of risk to that, you might fall on your face. So instead he played it safe and went with something more tried and true and crowd pleasing. Overall, I’d never say anything about Breaking Bad is terrible or totally out of place thematically, but it either didn’t have the brains or the balls to defy TV conventions like the Sopranos did.
This sums up my thoughts about the show exactly. It is good but at the end of the day it was never in the same league as The Sopranos, never necessarily even tried to be.
The Sopranos finale fell flat on it's face for basically everyone when it aired. It was a cheap ending and people felt like it cheated them out of a proper ending. They couldn't come up with a proper scene so they just cut to black instead. It came off lazy.. which sort of a microcosm of the entire show from the beginning. So many major plot holes even major ones like who is boss of NJ. People tend to just check their brain at the door with the Sopranos because it had a lot of comedy in it.
@@greggoat6570 You think Breaking Bad is bad? Better Call Saul is worse. They had the evil protagonist like Saul suddenly did a 180 in the 2nd act of the final episode for the sake of “redemption” even though there was no indication that he will redeem himself what so ever in the previous 10 seasons.
@@nont18411Saul is not Walt. Saul was never a terrible criminal or killer like Gus, Walt or even Mike. He was a sleazeball quasi genius lawyer and he didn't have the "the world is mine" attitude like the others. In case you missed the whole God damned backstory of Saul, and the speech of how he took the bad choice road and was in way over his head. Still I didn't like the ending as much as BrBa and Sopranos but it's not indefensible to do a 180 after years of horrifying experiences and being on the run. Not to mention factor in reflection on his actions in which digression occurs with Walt and Tony. Saul becomes increasingly reflective, mostly. The others do not. They're fine in their rationalizations. Saul is not and it shows in the dialog and acting.
Disagree with your point that Walt doesn't do anything morally worse than S4 in S5. I agree that a lot of elements of S5 are weaker than S4 but I think in part that's because we like seeing the protagonist achieve his high point, which is definitely the end of S4. S5 is about losing control, and the moral degradation of Walt completely consuming him. He murders Mike in a fit of rage. It happens for no real reason, Walt admits in Mike's last scene that he could just have gotten the names from Lydia. It's just pure ego, which I would argue is the real motif of BB, not moral descent. I also think you're underplaying Drew Sharp- yeah, Walt doesn't pull the trigger, but he's an accessory to murder of a child. And he ultimately partners with the murderer and chooses Jack's gang of intentionally way-over-the-top, obviously bad-guys neo-Nazi thugs over Jesse, who is obviously a proxy son for Walter throughout the entire series. And then there's Ozymandias, in which he completes that betrayal by condemning his own proxy-son to a fate which is arguably worse than death, enslaved by Jack's gang. "I watched Jane die" is Walt's lowest point in the series, not bombing a nursing home and poisoning a child. He's almost completely fallen and is using his absolute last modicum of power to destroy one of the people he loves the most. Walt's pride has taken him from doing everything "for his family" to absolutely destroying his family. If we treat BB as a lesson about ego and not moral descent, then the final season becomes completely necessary. Walt's life falling apart isn't just satisfying, it's crucial to see that pride is ultimately self-destructive. We leave Walt in S4 at his absolute height- pride has given him unmitigated victory. I think the penultimate scene in BB is the true resolution of Walt's character, it works in the same way as Junior's "That's nice." It's Walt completely giving up his "pride and ego" as Mike calls it. Handing Jesse the gun, that's the moment. Walt finally drops all pretense, all his scheming and manipulation, and tells Jesse what he wants. And Jesse breaking free and not shooting Walt is the natural conclusion to their story. Those two scenes where Walt's pride dies are the real conclusion to the series- "I liked it, I was good at it" and "I want this" directed to the two people in his life who mean the most to him. Giving up his ego is what gives him the real win. It's not about Walt needing to pay or suffer, it's about Walt needing to see the light, and how far things have to go for him to see it. Turns out that dying alone having lost everything and left nothing behind is how far- as you point out there's no real other option for Walt at that point but to go back. Walt is such a corrupt person that he has to be left with literally no other options than humiliation to see that humility is the right course. You might say that it's Walt playing up his hero fantasy, and that's certainly partly true. I think his final scenes with Gretchen and Elliot are a good counter-point to my argument and more favorable to your narrative- though even that's underwritten by the much less serious, almost comic-relief ending we get to that scene where the hitmen are just Badger and Pete. But going back pretty much guarantees some kind of final encounter with Skylar, and I personally believe Walt knows that Jack's gang isn't going to kill Jesse. In those encounters, Walt definitely isn't playing hero. This was a great video. I was able to predict a few of the points you were going to make before you made them, because your argument made a lot of sense even if I didn't agree with it, and you did a good job explaining it. I think one of the main messages of both shows is that there's no way to balance a legitimate life and a life of crime. The criminal side will always consume and corrupt everything adjacent to it. I largely agree with your comments on the Sopranos, and I've only seen the show once as opposed to 3-4 times for BB, so that's why I don't have much to say about it.
I've always thought that the sort of "moral" of Breaking Bad is more that one must find ways of balancing the darker and benevolent tendencies that they have, or their life spirals out of control, rather than it being a simple thematic shift from light to dark. Walt's life pre-diagnosis is miserable, he's mocked, belittled, and generally taken advantage of, and this is mostly due to his inability to stick up for himself and weather things out. Once he gets a taste of power, he is addicted as those he peddles his meth to, and due to him being deprived of agency for most of his life, refuses to give it up even at the cost of everything he once valued. Eventually, his agency is once again stripped, and he is forced to reconcile the man he once was and his values with the man he has become. When he finally is able to do this, he is able to accomplish everything he set out to do: Provide for his family, go out on his own terms, and assert to the world that he is a man to be respected. He even manages to rescue his partner, who he abused and mistreated, so that he will have a chance to escape and live his own life. So in my opinion, the finale works fantastically, but through the lens you presented I can see how you came to your own conclusions.
I agree with your assessment of Walt as a character and what drives it's still a terrible ending because Walt is meant to be something of a tragic villain but he goes out like a hero subverting or even reneging on the the moral messages the show is definitely trying to send.
I think you're on to something, but I don't agree with everything. Walt's initial desire is the only thing he achieved. He needs money to leave his family after he dies. This is his primary reason for returning in the finale. His secondary reason is revenge. He didn't go in to rescue Jesse so much as he did it to assert his power over those men. He is addicted to the status and power and his final act is setting himself back on top of the pyramid. I don't think the show is about balance. The episode (can't remember the name of it) when Walt is teaching about chirality is the moral of the story. On the one hand, you have a chemical (man) who has these traits in this order and is benevolent or at least benign, on the other hand you have a chemical that has the same components in a different order that is toxic and deadly. The show is about the recombination of those components that change Walt from a benign human into a toxic one and, possibly, a reshifting of them to get back to the benign. Whether that happens or not is unimportant, but the initial shift is what the show is about. The conversation Macabre uses with Gretchen is a little misleading as I don't think Walt really thinks they forced him out. The purpose of that conversation is to intimidate her and keep her away from his family, so the things he is saying aren't exactly honest on purpose, but the way in which Walt thinks will most effectively keep her and Elliot away. Look at his face after, he isn't happy about the things he said. I don't think he had his agency stripped before the end. A death sentence (cancer) is not the same as stripping of agency. Walt has choices and makes them with purpose and intent. He didn't reconcile with his family. Skylar will never forgive him. He just owns up to his responsibility. Junior really hates him. Marie will always hate him. There is no reconciliation, only an acknowledgment of guilt. You didn't say this but Macabre did, so I thought I'd address it. Overall I agree that the finale works. I prefer it to Sopranos, as I do with the whole show. I think everyone gets something similar but slightly different from it.
i agree with a LOT of what you’ve said here, and you give a lot to think about. but i will say i think it’s a disservice to reduce season 5 of BB to mere fan service
I also slightly disagree with the Breaking Bad ending...only slightly. That is that I still think it can be read as Walter choosing to walk away from his old life completely and fully live out his twisted fantasy of being a dangerous gangster who is also this gun-toting put-upon lone hero. We see what he does to the Schwartzes to secure his children's future, but never know how likely this is to succeed. In the show, we constantly see I'll gotten money get taken by the cops, cause problems when others come looking for it, or just how much stress it brings. We are also shown how canny Skylar is about sussing out Walt's attempts to get it to her. Jesse's relationship with Walt isn't really repaired, he calls Walt out for trying to emotionally manipulate him one last time and refuses to kill him, telling him to do it himself. Skylar is clearly distraught and shaken by seeing him, and nothing in Walt's life is fixed. He dies a hero in his own perception, but the camera pans out to show his body literally overshadowed by the meth empire that is his legacy in the form of the large chemical processing machines he dies beside. I think the only way they could have made it more obvious would have been to play Sinatra's "My Way" over the whole thing. The finale isn't Walt vindicated, it's Walt closing the door on reality. On any chance at doing the right thing by turning himself in. It drives home just how much this has been his fantasy all along, and how much of a selfish asshole he truly is. But if nobody else saw it that way, then maybe it wasn't terribly clear. That's definitely what I walked away from it with though.
Thank you for this. The Sopranos deserves a bigger place in popular consciousness If you keep this quality up you'll have a ton of subs in no time Your GoT rewrites were also incredible. The show I wish it was Love this channel
@macabre storytelling so glad someone finally said it! I was telling my husband a few months ago TS's ending>BB's only to find found out he'd never even seen The Sopranos. He tried to say "I'm not really into macho mob stuff" to which I countered that BB is ENTIRELY based around organized crime, it's just not Italian. Needless to say, he relented and loved The Sopranos in spite of himself and I didn't have to file for divorce.
Wow this was some great analysis! I had always felt that the Sopranos finale was saying more than was generally perceived and the Breaking Bad finale was too much of a redemption story.. but you really articulated things in a way I hadn't thought of before. So glad this video got recommended to me, keep up the great work!
Breaking Bad wasn’t a redemption story lol. Walt never redeemed himself, he just tried to make some things right before leaving. He still died a narcissistic man who ruined his family’s life, and Jesse’s.
@@Johnnysmithy24 He didn't even do that to begin with. He just did what he originally wanted to do. He gave the money to his family because that was his original goal. He got rid of Lydia because it was what he wanted to do. He killed Jack's gang and freed Jesse because he could. Hell, the killing of Jack's gang was purely out of either revenge or ego. Freeing Jesse is the one thing Walter did that wasn't driven by his ego. Hell, he dies surrounded by chemistry as that was the one true thing he loved besides himself
The Sopranos finale serves as a less is more finale that challenges the audience, and Breaking Bad to me is a finale I look at with admiration for thinking about every segment of the audience. I love ambiguous endings, but there’s also nothing wrong with finales that wrap up things to a satisfying conclusions. As long as it makes sense for the story. The sopranos not knowing what your fate is is perfect for Tony, and Walt making sure he comes out on top is perfect for his character.
This is good work. It's not the case, though, in my opinion, that the finale frames Walt as a hero. It isn't subtext but rather explicit text that Walt is haunted by his name being dragged through the mud publicly. He wants criminals to see him as someone to fear and admire. He wants everyone else, the world his family operates in, to see him as someone to admire, too. These goals conflict, but he still and always has believed them. Season Four sees him become someone feared/admired in the criminal world. The finale is all about him making a last ditch, selfish effort to be seen and admired as a hero. It's selfish, not heroic, and that's why it's a good finale. It makes good on the theme not only with Walt's role as a criminal, but also his role as a man.
I like the end of BB because Walt's "redemption" is completely insufficient. He kills a few nazis and extorts a rich couple. He basically just continues to embrace being a criminal. I mean he's being *slightly* less evil than before. But he's learned very little.
Although I do not agree on certain things you said on BB's ending, you do have strong arguments and I feel like now I have to rewatch the show to see if you really convinced me haha. Honnestly, this video is really good, I look forward to see your next finale face-off !
Walt is the definition of being nice doesn’t mean you’re good. He was just a weak man who never had the opportunity to be bad, until he had the proper justification.
I think the BB finale is less a rushed attempt at redemption and more of Walt's drive to go out on top. The phone call to Skylar after taking out Gus sums it up "I won." To Walt, the ends justify the means. And this philosophy isn't something he happened upon, he believes in the Heisenberg theory that the universe is nothing more than choas and there is no real good and evil. In the end, he won. His victory could be viewed as selfless but in reality, just like Tony it's another smokescreen, a justification for his action. Ironically this further gives Norm's theory credence. In his death fantasy he'd obviously be justified.
Great breakdown of two great shows! I 100% agree with you. When I watched the finale of The Sopranos live on HBO all those years ago, I hated it. But as the years have gone by Ive grown to love it more and more. On the flip side, when I watched the finale of Breaking Bad live, I loved it. But as time goes by it becomes more forgettable.
I loved both endings and found them satisfactory. With Breaking Bad, in the end it's true Walter gets away with it and ties everything up neatly at the end of his life. I enjoyed seeing that even if the "morally congruent" ending would have been for him to suffer for his sins. Life is rarely morally congruent and sometimes bad guys get away with it.
@@callinater6133 Not exactly, he died before he even got the full consequences of his actions. And those consequences are now transferred to another protagonist, Jimmy McGill. That is the true punishment.
@@nont18411 That was not punishment. Hell, Jimmy wouldn't even be fully punished had he not bragged about it to begin with. Had Jimmy not decided to take full responsibility for everything Walter did, barely anything would have happened to him
Breaking Bad is my go to example of when a series WANTS to end and does so correctly versus when a series is TOLD to end by the network and so the final season leaves much to be desired. Not saying I completely like the ending of BB, but at least it’s the ending the show writers wanted to have happen instead of thinking they had more seasons to come but get cancelled by the network.
Star LORD to be honest I hadn’t watched the Supranos and a friend told me the ending, just blurred it out one day, so it kinda ruined the shock for me. But, if it is meant that Tony gets killed when it fades to black, I like it. I like the ambiguity. Reminds me of the end of (and beginning of) The Rules Of Attraction. It starts and ends Mid sentence. And you don’t know what was going on before or what may happen after.... but you have a pretty good idea. Did you like the Supranos ending?
@@HeatherHolt When you can't even distinguish a show's ending and a broadcast technical failure, I think that is highly indicative of problems. The Sopranos' ending comes off as a huge joke.
Walter White’s true nature just came out over the course of the show. He got a thrill out of cooking meth, killing people, evading Hank, manipulating Jesse, and controlling everyone around him. He felt powerless his whole life, then he got drunk on the power of being such an effective criminal and he loved it. He was always evil. Tony is constantly suppressing his true nature, he was born into being the mob boss but he’s not evil by nature. Quite the opposite. I think all the violence, murder and crime is the source of Tony’s depression. He’s bad, but he’s not Walter White bad.
Thrill of: cooking meth - not exactly, he took pride in his product being 99% clean, better than the others, that his extensive knowledge of chemistry made him stand out and gave him recognition, both psychological and financial. And he was still struggling with realization that no matter how much he produces his ex-friends are going to outdo him monetarily ("billions"). He needed recognition of his worth to satisfy his quite narcissistic ego. killing people - same, nothing indicates he enjoyed it, more like he just did it out of necessity or emotion. evading Hank - probably, he toyed with him for a bit manipulating people - again, something he deemed necessary and didn't think much of I think Tony is both product of his environment but also a person who refuses to change his life, rather using his newfound knowledge of psychology to become better at his lifestyle (as stated in the end of the series). I think he and Walter are just two different types and it's pointless to compare their "evilness".
It wasn't walter's true nature. It was his shadow self. Breaking Bad is a tale of the dangers of the shadow self and how it can change people if said people didn't control it. Everyone has a shadow self that is full of malicious intent that we have to keep in check. Walter wasn't always an evil guy. There is alot of proof throughout the show that Walter wasn't always evil on the inside. Like his talk with his family about his cancer, him seeing skyler reading books about cancer patients and then has a look of sympathy on his face and then goes to hug her and tell her that he changed his mind,etc
Macabre, you pointed out that Walter had a chance in season 1 to stop his drug production because Elliot Schwartz offered to pay his medical treatment bills, but Walter still had to make money to support his family and pay the bills after he died, which he needed drug money for.
Walter White was dead in the series finale -- not literally dead, but metaphorically, a zombie-like version of what he had become. His final days saw him acting as an avenging ghost. His ultimate confession to his wife, "I liked it."
I gotta tell you...after having finished The Sopranos for the first time this week, and having watched Breaking Bad 3 or 4 times, I love this video. Love it. I think you made great points, and you backed them up with even greater reasoning. But...I heavily disagree with your take on Season 5 of Breaking Bad. Let me preface this by saying your review of The Sopranos ending is perfect and I have been looking for someone to say exactly what you said about it. But I personally hold the ending of Breaking Bad at an even higher level than that of the Sopranos. You say that Breaking Bad isn’t exactly a show about morality, but rather how evil and twisted Walter can get before he dies. Let me ask you, is that really all you wanted from the show? It seems that by looking at Walter White’s character development that you COMPLETELY ignore the complete flip that Hank made as a character. Hank actually turns out to be the hero of this story. And Jesse is the man Hank was supposed to save. Jesse was supposed to be the Princess Peach to Hank’s Mario. Now granted, its obviously a lot more complex than that, but all of this has had so much buildup throughout the entire series. You say that the Nazis are comically so evil that Walter seems good when that isn’t even the point. Season 1 sees Walter living a horrible life, belittled and disrespected by nearly everyone, and living a life of hopeless inaction, and we see Hank as a condescending arrogant prick. Throughout the show, we see Hank brought to the lowest of lows...and only when he can’t even take a piss without the help of his wife...when even that is taken away from him, do we see Hank become the literal hero of this story. As much as this show is about the points you highlighted, it’s also the telling of the villain winning, as the villain, Walter White, won from start to finish.
@@bozotheclown666 I disagree all the way and that's why I strongly disagree with this video. Breaking Bad season 5 was a masterpiece for a number of reasons including Walter stopped lying to himself and everyone around him. Walter White was a bad man but he got a late start in life when he started doing evil things and nobody in his family or former friends will miss him. He got his empire and left a legacy but he sold his soul.
Love both shows! Grew up watching Sopranos as a young kid but I was so young I didn’t know to appreciate how incredible it was….not until rewatching it as an adult! BB on the other hand was the first series ever that I became a huge fan of now there was other shows after that but BB I was a legit fan of before the 3rd season dropped! Both shows are great examples of why people get so emotionally invested in fictional series!
Good video and analysis, but I disagree with the assessment that what happens after the thematic question is answered doesn't matter. Sure, you could arguably end a show or story or whatever at that point, but if there are other things in the air that should be dealt with, and if dealing with them appropriately would add to the answer of the thematic question more than leaving them open-ended, they should be dealt with. Although I definitely agree with everything you said about how BB ended.
Agreed. That is why Season 5 of BB isn't a total wash, since I felt the writers wanted to make the show more into a morality tale, which they did well with Ozymandias... but I feel the finale sort of dampens or walks back on the entire function of Season 5 as a whole. I would have rather had Ozymandias be the finale of Season 5 OR just remove Season 5 altogether.
The debate basically comes down to this Walter White = Embodiment of *PRIDE* Tony Soprano = Embodiment of *REPUGNANCE* So which is stronger pride or repugnance?
Not even a contest. The sopranos has much more well written characters and explores much deeper and a greater variety of themes like death and the afterlife, karma, various philosophies, religion, the social decline and corporatization of 21st century America, how cycles of abuse and trauma are passed down inter-generationally, the effectiveness of therapy and institutional psychology/psychiatry while using Melfi as a vehicle to explore characters hidden and often ambivalent thoughts and motivations and the reasons behind them. Braking bad didn't touch anything half as thoughtful, it looks like a soap opera by comparison. Not that it's not enjoyable and high quality, but it feels like entertainment while sopranos feels like art to me. The dialogue in the sopranos is also much more layered and well-written in a way where the characters, their motivations and thoughts implied through realistic dialogue make them feel much more like real people than the characters in breaking bad who are generally one or two dimensional and say everything completely literally, often not talking as people do IRL. But it's almost like apples and oranges because the sopranos is a philosophical character-driven family drama disguised as a family/crime drama, and breaking bad is just plainly a plot-driven family/crime drama.
“Soap opera by comparison” is very harsh but hard to argue with. The Spanish language adaptation literally was produced like one of those, and it actually makes sense in that format, no matter how much BB fans will performatively cry/laugh at how inferior it is.
So the question of "How evil will Walter get?" is present in season 5. That question is raised as Walter objects to killing Jesse only to later change his mind. That question is answered once and for all in Ozymandias when Walter tries to bargain all his money for Hank's life. Everything after Hank's death is kind of a Return of King style plot wrap up after the story has already climaxed. But I like those episodes anyway. Granite State is probably my favorite episode in the whole series. On my last rewatch these episodes felt more like a prequel to El Camino than the finale of Breaking Bad and that made them better.
I strongly disagree that jessie and skyler's stories are inconsequential to breaking bad. Jessie matters just as much as walt to the story. Imo i felt walt was 'bad' from the beginning and the ending was less him atoning for his sins and more him being stubborn and refusing to lose anything other than his own life, one last example of walt's ego driving him, but this time driving him to do something good.
I actually agree with much of what you said about Season 5, but I disagree with how you presented the finale being contradictory. Like you said, the show has a nihilistic outlook, and I believe Walt getting everything he wants by the end of the series exemplifies this well. He's committed atrocities, horrible acts. I don't believe he did find redemption, I believe he made it for himself in his mind, because he outsmarted everyone else. He died satisfied, not because he deserved it, but because he could. There was no bad ending for him because it is a nihilistic show, that even bad people can win and die happy, there is no 'good and evil'. But I actually do agree that season 4 would have been the perfect end. Thanks for this video! Your analysis on the Sopranos front was all perfect!
Might not be your kind of show but twin peaks season 3 also has the perfect ending for its own themes and context. Glad to see quarantine has people acknowledging the sopranos’ title belt
Twin Peaks was already one of the best shows ever but Twin Peaks season 3 gave it the one thing it was a missing, A proper send off and It's damn near perfect.
The finale of Twin Peaks the Return actually has more of a parallel to BB to me. If BB had ended with season 4 you’d have had a happy ending for Walt: he overcomes his enemy and if Pinkman and he get out of the game they basically get away with all their activities. It’s season 5 where things really go to shit (Hank killed, Walt irreconcilably separated from his family, Jesse enslaved and even though freed later his love interest is killed leaving an orphaned boy). Similarly, if TPR had ended with the penultimate episode you would have had the typical soap opera happy end (TP was always in part a parody of soap operas). But the final episode blows that up again. At least for the main two characters.
@@BishopWalters12 I thought season 2 already had a perfect ending. But thoroughly enjoyed The Return. It did however contain a lot of criticism of the modern urge for nostalgia tv/cinema
Just bc a man pays for his crimes, doesnt mean he has to "go to hell". I found the bittersweet end to BrBa to be very fitting. Bc at the end of the day, Heisenberg will always come out on top, especially since he now has nothing to lose. Walt's capabilities have surpassed everyone else's, so an unleashed Heisenberg who has accepted his "defeat" can now just do what little "good" he can. Walt pays for his crimes dearly: destroying his family, losing all love and respect of his son, and being seen by the world as the true monster he was. The finale is essentially an epilogue and one last act of necessary evil done by Walt. You dont have to feel happy about it, but the character of Walt always made me have some sympathy for him, no matter how much I fucking hated him.
I loved Dexter (particularly season 1), but that finale did rather suck. It didn’t leave a bad taste in my mouth, though: that was one character that didn’t need closure for me. In fact, after season 7, I felt that had pretty much done all they could do with the character and the whole 8th season felt unnecessary. And now I hear there’s apparently a season 9 coming this Fall. 8 years after the show ended. Can’t wait 🙄
Showtime really doesn't have a clue in terms of knowing when to end a show. Almost everything they produce ends up running far longer than they should and the quality gets noticably worse. As for Dexter, how they didn't have Deb take him out is one of the biggest misses for a once great show. Pretty much everything after Trinity is rather sub par.
Indeed, I’ve always firmly believed in the BB finale dying fantasy theory for all the same reasons you said it would work if canon. In my mind that’s exactly what it was because it just makes good sense.
I like to listen to videos like these while I do stuff but yours are always so well thought out and put together I usually forget what I’m doing and end up fully watching! Well done! (And very nice. I try to rewatch both these shows once a year they’re so damn good!)
How about him manipulating an old guy in a wheelchair 2 blow himself and their mutual enemies up?! In real life, workers, residents and visitors most likely would've been collateral damage!
Walter didn’t manipulate Hector. Hector had no Salamancas anymore to live for. Him killing Gus this way was a perfect revenge for him and ending his own life.
I really enjoyed this video, but I feel like the narrative change in season 5 is a great thing for BB. I think after season 4, we have officially seen Mr. Chips turned into Scarface. I think season 5 goes in depth on how one can come to terms being Scarface. Walt finally realizes that he wanted to live his life in thrill and be the best at something. That scene with Skyler was one of the best in the series but you barely discussed that. Nonetheless, I love both shows endings for different things, but Walt coming to terms about why he did everything makes that ending work for me.
How Walt made Gretchen and Elliott obey him to get his own way/money was another demonstration of how Walt hadn't changed at all. Walt was still very much "any means to an end" for whichever reason he sought to justify, which sat uncomfortably with him having learned his lesson, or having improved as a person. I didn't appreciate the way I felt expected to root for his behaviour, on the basis that he was doing it "for his family". It didn't feel like he WAS doing it for his family, so much as trying to put Gretchen and Elliott back in their place, by wielding his potentially deadly authority once again. Really great video, acutely perceptive analysis. Feel like I spent 40 minutes in film school.
Great video and I liked your points- but I respectfully disagree. Sopranos deserves all the praise for the more dark and experimental ending but that doesn’t mean breaking bads more crowd pleasing finale doesn’t work for the show. Breaking bad (while a dark show) was never as dark in tone or as pessimistic as Sopranos. Walter facing his past and doing his best to make up for his evil was believable to me. He may have been a selfish man- but I don’t think it was out of the realm of possibility he would come to his senses and try to right his wrongs. The character of Tony was exposed as much more of a psychopath (especially by the end of the show) and it would not have worked if he tried to be, as you said, a “quasi hero” in the last couple episodes. To sum up, I believe Walter could have been rehabilitated while Tony had no chance of character rehabilitation.
I disagree with your analysis of the BB finale, but this video is so well put together that I have to leave a like. To me, both Sopranos and BB have fitting and thematically appropiate endings.
U gotta make more vids man I would love the sopranos Tony death breakdown/clues But also more recent shows Like Ozark for example I’m really enjoying it
@Nayan Jyoti Nath I agree with you there. Ozymandias is the greatest tv episode of all time, and Sopranos is the greatest show. Breaking bad had a better ending though. Even Vince Gilligan said Walter White wouldn't exist without Tony Soprano. I do think that Walter White is the greatest and most complex character of all time.
@Nayan Jyoti Nath I get why, because in terms of narrative, the sopranos end is far superior for all the reasons in the video. But, I just thought that the breaking bad ending was SO satisfying. Baby blue by Badfinger playing in the final scene was just amazing
I don't find walter to have been "bad all along". Bitterness and rage don't make you a bad person.... He's story is tragic because he has never let himself guide his own life ("It feels like I'm never making my own choices"). He let himself be humiliated and kept his head down. The cancer gave him the chance to feel powerful. He was not willing to give it away or be positioned as the weak anymore (being charity for Gretchen and Elliot, not having an empire, be seen as the person in danger and not "the one who knocks", etc). He is complex, because he also always cared. About his son, wife (he framed himself for Hank's death as part of trying to clear skyler's name), Hank (was very upset about his death...), Jesse (which he sacrificed a lot for. His entire fued with Gus and the danger to his life was saving Jesse's ass). So the finale is complex. Walter doesn't get everything he wants. He ties threads because he lost everything. He is not regretting things, he admits his true motives: doing it all because of his life of powerlessness and insecurity. Because he finally felt powerful. That being said, I felt the machine gun was over the top and his plan working too perfectly, with not being detected, parking just at the right place, killing everyone successfully... almost cartoony. I would have wanted to see something more complex and nuanced there. I also always wanted to see a version of the scene with skyler in which she doesn't say "If I hear one more time that you did it for the family"... because I felt it worked even without it, with less spoon feeding. You complete in your own head Walter's explanation to be his regular one "everything I did... I did ..... " (Skyler looking pissed, almost disgusted, we think "for the family right?") "... I did it for me." (skyler surprised raises her head, we're surprised as well).
Brilliant video! These are my two favourite shows I’ve ever seen, and I gotta say I love both finales. You do make a great argument for why BB’s ending isn’t as lined up with what the rest of the show represents though, and I totally see your point of view. Definitely subscribing for these great analysis.
While I disagree with most of this video, it was well put together and like basically every vid you put out, just an enjoyable watch/listen. I think Walt's family suffered immensely due to him. Nevermind the financial issues they must have, the infamy of being "Heisenberg's family", the emotional trauma and torment they suffered through. There's just so much bad that came out of it. Adding to that, because of him, Jesse was kept as a slave for a year, so many lives were taken because of his greed, like Hank. Season 5 is the culmination of his ego manifesting when its at its highest point.. and then falling down to reap the worst consequences possible. I think the idea that a show must continuously follow a theme and stick to it and leave things ambiguous is unnecessary. It's unwanted, even. Walt went back to Albuqurque, because despite all the shit he'd done and all the lives he'd ruined, he wasn't purely just an evil man. He wanted to make things right before he passed, and that's what he did.
You're overlooking the fact that Breaking Bad's finale has two elements: Walt's family and Walt's empire. First of, he doesnt reconcile with his family. Quite the opposite. Walter Jr. rebutes him, straight up telling him to just die already. Skyler is smoking - her disillusioned defiance of Walt, a beam visually dividing the two as they talk. The only redeeming part of their confrontation is Walt admitting to Skyler (and himself) that he did it all for himself, not (just) for his family. Finally, he has to swallow his pride and funnel his fortune through Elliot and Gretchen. Elliot and Gretchen already offered their charity which he angrily refused. We see the same anger when Walter Jr. sets up an online charity, which allows Walt to launder his drug money - but again, making Walt the benefactor of others good will. Sure, he manages to secure his family financially, but it in the end he still has to rely on (the deception of) charity. Now, regarding his empire: Walt's attack on Jack and his gang is initiated by Badger and Little Pete informing him that the blue meth is back on the market. We've seen time and time again, that Walt is posesive and takes pride in his recipe. He cant stand the fact, that somebody else is producing /his/ meth. It's even quite possible that Walt's only reason to mention Jessy to Jack is to kill him as well. There's another video that points out how Walt's expression changes when he sees Jessy dragged in in chains, leading to Walt dragging him down and covering him as he triggers the hidden machine gun. For all Walt knew Jessy was working with the nazis, not as a slave but as a willing partner - making him a target for his prideful murder spree as well. The only way Walt "wins" in is his death scene. He dies in the lab, the place he proved his talent and capability. But in the end he lost everything to prove how clever he was. Quite the tragic tale and far from a redemption finale. Really, the entire finale is centered around Walt's pride and him finally admitting to himself what he is - not in an angry outburst ("I AM the danger!" "I'm in the EMPIRE building business!"), but camly saying that he liked it; that he was good at it. That this was him finally getting to live out his ambitions, not him taking the only viable option to provide for his family. Walt finally swallowing his pride by laundering his money through Gretchen and Elliot is just as much out of necessity, as his family refuses to take his money. And saving Jessy is, quite likely, only an afterthought as he realises that Jessy was an unwilling pawn, not an enemy. In this sense the two finales actually mirror each other. Tony realises that, in the end, the mob life doesnt matter. That what matters is his family, the little things. But all too late. Similarly, Walt realises that his pride and hubris have ruined his family, not his illness. But all too late.
I couldn't have said it better myself. He didn't win anything and season 5 shows how he's a shadow of death and misery. I want to tag on to your point: His own son, Walt Jr feels so much a anger for his father he changes his own name, killing Walter Whites legacy even in blood. The only thing Walt really got in the end was to die on his own terms. This is 100% theory, but I'm willing to bet if he didn't get shot by one of the skinheads he'd suicide by cop since he knows his cancer will lead to him dying in jail otherwise.
both finales are perfect imo but for different reasons, I will always think that breaking bad is just a better show because of the memories I have watching it live, I never got the chance to watch the sopranos live because I was to little to be watching shows like that at the time so BB will always be special to me, overall great analysis
IMO I think the breaking bad finale is amazing and thought out pretty well. You said in your video that the series would be over when Walt completes his most villainous and evil act at least by a thematic standpoint and that is exactly what happened. Walt is much more villainous and ruthless in s5 then s4 and this is evident when he whistles next to the body of a child and bragging about watching Jane die. He constantly manipulates Jessie to keep on cooking and orders someone he sees as his son to die. By doing this he allows Andrea to die and brock to be threatened. Bragging about murdering the lives of an innocent girl and almost 200 others, selling his partner into slavery to be beaten up constantly and only coming back to Albuquerque to get revenge is the most villainous act Walt has done. Although walt gives his money to his family in the finale he does this by threatening the lives of Gretchen and Elliot and he murders almost 20 people the same episode so I think it balances out. If Walt had surrendered himself in he would be the hero and the story by a thematic standpoint would be ruined but he goes to kill the nazis and Lydia and only even mentions Jesse so he doesn’t get executed quickly. He does save Jesse but doing that does not revert the fact that he did the most villainous act that he probably could and he doesn’t even apologise and he just wants Jesse to shoot him so he can end his misery. This shows Walt once again manipulating Jesse and when Jesse doesn’t choose to do so this complete Jesses arc and another one of the biggest themes of the show.
Great analysis, tho dont you think that Tony's ending is also him getting everything he wants? In the last episode we hear how he will most likely get convicted so instead of going to prison and dying there like Johnny, he gets to see and spend time with his family in his last moments and dying instantly without knowing any better. Also I feel like you touch alot on Walters story and yes the story is mostly about him. Jesse also being a big part of breaking bad and then getting killed with Hank wouldn't be the ending he deserves.
Not necessarily, though it’s likely that Tony dies at the end it’s over for him, one of his capos has flipped which’ll lead to him going to jail, his best friend his dead. Death or not, Tony is done
My theory is that Walter didn't die. He was arrested by the cops. If you see the gunshot wound it's not direct in a vital organ. Nor is there a large pool of blood indicating he hit a major artery. A gut shot can take days to kill you from internal bleeding. Certainly plenty of time for the cops we see in the background close by to find him, call for an ambulance and handcuff him to the bed in the hospital.
To be fair, BB really never fully committed to theme, and placed more emphasis on plot, offering a more conventional ‘fun’ ending that bids adieu to the characters, with less thematic depth, but really, the story wasn’t really going for that anyway
That is wrong on many levels. It was not a conventional fun ending like some silly people who try to look smart think it is. It was an ending that was built up to. It is the cumulation of Walt’s arc of evil and revenge. The main motivation of killing the the neo nazis was him avenging Hank’s death, because Hank was still family to him. When he saw Jesse, he thought of the sorry state he was in. Not that the relationship between the two would be repaired.
@@captainhowlerwilson508 Well you see it’s a closure heavy episode that also gives us an hour of tv that contains a balance between the elements of show, i.e. humour, action, and a small dose of family drama. I mean fun as in reflective of what audiences expect from the show. But it isn’t all that interested in leaving things to ponder, for better or worse, and that is what makes it more of a quote on quote fun episode. It gives the audience what and it wants, and in walt’s downfall what it needs, but it doesn’t try to piss the audience off, which the Sopranos did with its emphasis of theme over satisfaction.
@@captainhowlerwilson508 What thing Walter was avenging when he killed Lydia? Killing her character was the biggest indication of writers trying to give satisfaction to audience over anything else. Every bad person must die. And another thing that irked me was Marie looked like she is working with DEA or something but I am not quite sure about it as it's been a while I watched it.
Breaking Bad had a more emotionally satisfying ending but The Sopranos had a significantly bolder, more meaningful and impactful ending. I prefer the way The Sopranos ended.
This is an awesome analysis! Re Sopranos -- I am not sure if Meadow's arrival would have saved Tony as he might have gallantly gotten up to let her sit on the inside of the booth.
Tony actually loved his family and it showed in how he was worried about his son's depression and Meadow's dating life. But his moral compass was a bit off though he would never harm a child or animals. Also Tony was born into that life, so of course he is who he is. And you can tell he would have had a gentle character had it not foe being born into the life. How he was affected by Gloria's suicide, hurt his mother and uncle tried to kill him, revenge for that guy that killed the horse and the stripper and the fact that he even felt the need to see a psychologist. Walter thought there was absolutely nothing wrong with him and he admitted to doing things because he like them. Walter was a covert narcistic coward who had a breaking point with his diagnosis and as he knew he would die, he thought he was going to finally be the big strong man he wanted to be but wasn't even when he was young, strong, healthy and had potential like his friends that formed that science company. He wasn't born into that life. He sough it by manipulating a silly young drug addict half his age. And he did set out to harm that little boy and he killed that Mike guy because he caused him a narcistic injury.
This is the most crucial point that many people miss. Viewers often cite Tony as more ruthless but Tony at the end always feels bad for what he does (with few exceptions). Walt on the other hand always manipulates others into believing that whatever actions he exercises are fair enough and he is basically doing everything to protect his family. This thing makes Breaking Bad unique in a particular way. Walter is not a regular person, Tony is. That's why many people say that Sopranos is realistic because people can relate more with the Tony's character. David Chase tried to make it as realistic as possible, but somewhere that's also the factor due to which it becomes less engaging than Breaking Bad, even though it is more subtle. Breaking Bad is not some usual crime drama. It aptly showcases the final strands of a man who is walking on the death line and the extreme measures that he can take to make people know that he is the one who should be feared before he is dead and gone. And TBH, Season 5 of Breaking Bad was much more darker than the whole Sopranos. I like both shows, and even though Sopranos is better than Breaking Bad in the initial run, but Season 5 of Breaking Bad surpasses not only Sopranos but literally every existing TV show that ever existed on this planet.
Both shows did interesting things with the characters and pushed them to their limits. Both shows displayed similar lessons about trust and betrayal and how having a family really means if you a live a life of crime. Walter White is the other side of the coin for a character like Tony Soprano
Good analysis...I think that both Walt and Tony were equally evil creeps..although Tony seemed to have remorse about the lives he has ruined. Walt was totally indifferent -all he cared about was himself. Walt had many chances to quit the meth cooking business..but he always went back.
I'm a huge fan of Mr Robot and having now thoroughly watched all 3 series, I think MR can go in the convo for best show of all time. 2 in 1 seasons and one of the most efficient stories I've seen told start to finish 👀
I’ve never seen a show plummet so hard. The ending was so hilariously terrible, it is a twist I would have come up with in middle school, and then realized in high school it is much too stupid and silly. Just a completely goofy direction and ending for a series that started interesting, it was like intentional sabotage or something.
Brilliant video! I know it's been over a year but I hope you do more for this series, or at least something like it. Love your movie/show analysis vids
Tony is waaaay more sympathetic...the idea that Tony EVER has a chance to 'claw his way to the light' is stupid--he's in the Mafia...no way out except rathood and witness protection...both endings work...crime is something Tony is stuck in, crime is something that makes Walt feel powerful.Tony can't change, Walt could go straight before Gus and after Gus, but it's all about dominance for him since he was a doormat that got cancer. He is addicted to power and the rush. The ending is perfect with Baby Blue playing, because that is what his character arc was about, choosing crime and lust for dominance as his love over love of family the overexplaining of the ending of Sopranos is unnecessary: it's how getting shot mafia style is: instant lights out. It's literally described in an earlier episode, as well as in Goodfellas likewise, it's spelled out that Walt was evil all along, he is confronted and admits it, then kills Mike and admits he didn't need to these shows and characters share crime and crime boss roles...that's the only similarity, except BB AND TS really ARE both tragedies, tragedies to the families and friends of da bosses. Tony's situation is like a cancer in that it's inherited, Walt's cancer sets off a situation revealing a diseased personality the finale is cool with me because of Walt's need to 'win'. Not about making Walt a hero, about bringing in more baddies to outwit, while coolly tying up loose ends in the show. Walt is a hero only to people who hate loose ends or aren't thinking clearly. The show lays this out too, that to satisfy his own selfish 'will to power', he destroyed or negatively impacted not a family,THE WHOLE WORLD. think about it. it's not hyperbole, he's a meth kingpin and murderer. We are all connected. The plane crash season drives this home like a hammer. Each evil deed sends a ripple like a stone tossed in the pond of humanity. Walt in his rage threw a mountain
I'm so relieved you went with Sopranos works, Breaking Bad not so much... The Wire and The Sopranos are my favourite shows of all time. When I watch each one I think it's the best, I can't decide. I felt the way Walt behaves when Jessie threatens his money in a confessional monologue was weak.
How was it weak lol? And also it was not so much of a confession. It was never confirmed if it was recorded, most probably not. The plan was that he would lead them to the money, and THAT would be the evidence. Plus none of that worked anyway as they got killed lol
You know this isn't actually mean that The sopranos is better than breaking bad right. The decision will solely and always be on perspective and personal opinion. Just like this guy even his analysis is personal opinion.
I never did like in the final season of Breaking Bad how it breaks up the tension by having Walter walk away from everything and then got caught after he had quit. It made it all seem sort of muddled. They wanted redemption for Walter but also consequences and it was... fine, but not as interesting and original as most of the series.
@@HeatherHolt Yes, I thought it was pretty neat collection of scenes that almost feels like a movie. Like how the critics described the Breaking Bad finale, it's "satisfying" but also a bit more deserved, since Jesse is far more sympathetic. It's definitely more of a "coda" to the series, as opposed to a logical ending. It's "fan service", which doesn't have to mean that it's bad. It's entertaining enough, not essential though.
Well said 👌 they wanted to have their cake and eat it too.
@@MacabreStorytelling totaly agree
Walt was a villian in the end and should have stayed that way. since thats what the show was building up to. For 4 seasons
@@MacabreStorytelling No, Breaking Bad actually told a story with an actual beginning, middle and end. Unlike the Sopranos which had no over all plot and an "ending" that only served to show how meaningless the entire show actually was.
Agreed it sounds like this guy just wanted walt to win theres consequences in breaking bad
The final scene of the sopranos has to one of the most creative and eerie portrayals of death on screen.
I thought it was very powerful. I would have liked it even better if the blackness had lasted as long as Chase had originally intended
It was contrived and sophomoric. Even with the hints and set up, it just didn't work. What was supposed to be a big bang was more like a "huh? Oh I get it, he's dead" thud.
@@ndogg20 Having Tony's death be a dramatic spectacle would have made the finale more entertaining, but it also would have taken away the elements of subversion and realism which a lot of people enjoy about the ending; I guess it's ultimately about whether you prefer to be entertained or to experience unique and memorable concepts
Nothing was shown. The Sopranos finale loses by default.
@@cheekbuster6909I think we all prefer to be entertained while experiencing unique and memorable concepts. Some times creatives forget about the entertainment part
A testament to your point about the Uncle Junior scene: the only thing Junior remembers about Tony? “We used to play catch together!”
Tony caught a bullet
and that he didn't have the making of a varsity athlete
@@TheeCapN Too bad he was too busy chasing skirt :(
Uncle Junior was ashamed to face his friends, Tone should of caught that fly ball against Mountain Lakes.
@@Rick_Riff lmfao was just about to post this exact sentence you legend.
“There’s no looming threat to season 5.”
That’s because Walter is the Threat.
“He was the threat, he was the danger”
"I'm the one who knocks. I am the danger"
He's not though. He still seems like he's bitten off more than he can chew. Outside if the last episode, Walter was a bumbling wannabe at the mercy of everyone else
@@wellsborie6897 He still took out Gus.
@@H.K.5 yeah, he realized that if you detonate a bomb right next to Gus, he'd die. That's not super impressive or competent
While I do agree that The Sopranos ending is the superior finale, I do think Breaking Bad's works: I view it as Walt casting away his conflict between wanting to be a family man and a criminal, and finally embracing the part of him that enjoys being a criminal. I think BB's ending is quite subversive in that sense.
It was never a case of Walt righting the wrongs of his actions. It was about him accepting who he truly was, and stop lying to himself and those around him about why he did what he did
@@Onezy05 And it is implied that Walt was up in that cabin for quite a lot of time without leaving really at all. Probably wasn't much for him to do but to reflect.
@@Madmetalmaniac42069 I think that consciously, Walt thought he was doing it for his family as that was the natural rationalization for his actions.
But unconsciously, it was all about his own selfish pride and ego, at wanting to achieve something in what had otherwise been a highly mundane life.
I think that as Walt's actions became more and more questionable, he struggled more and more to understand the unconscious truth behind what he was doing.
An important scene that comes to mind is when he punches the mirror after finding out his cancer is in remission.
It should be a moment of celebration, that he's evaded death for the time being and is around for the continued love of his family. But in reality, it's deprived him of his justification for his actions, for the thrill and purpose he gets from the criminal lifestyle, reducing him from mighty Heisenberg to plain old Walter White.
He's frustrated because it should be a rational moment of celebration, but he acts in a seemingly irrational manner as it conflicts with how he *really* feels.
Easily one of the most important scenes in BrBa. Perhaps the most important.
What about the Sopranos finale was better? It wasn't even a finale.. it was a "we can't come up with a final scene" ending. Transitioning to a black screen is not my idea of genius. It comes off cheap. Breaking Bad actually had a legit ending.. a good one.
@@dociebiemowie915 Tony got whacked. They foreshadowed it a ton in the final season and chase had it planned out for a while
At 35:15 you say it seems like he’s learned the errors in his ways... absolutely not. What he was doing wasn’t to redeem himself, he never expressed remorse. He was just honest about who he was. He told skylar he did what he did for himself, but he never said to her he regretted it. He blamed the nazis for hanks death, not himself so he evaded accepting responsibility. I disagree with your claim that he was framed as a hero. He was a hero when he turned himself in to the DEA, but Gretchen and elliots interview snapped him back into his hatred. The finale is not about him being a hero, but reverting to his villainy with no remorse. He simply wants to conclude his story as the antagonist he’s accepted himself to be. He dies looking back on his glory days as a meth cook in satisfaction, not regret. He has not changed his ways, he regrets nothing, he simply concluded his story the only way he knew how: using his genius to provide for his family and tie up all loose ends remaining. He did not redeem himself or change his ways, he fully accepted who he was. He didn’t try and set things right he just indulged his criminal fantasy. It was about him accepting that he had broken bad all those years ago, and he stops pretending he’s something he’s not. He didn’t redeem himself, he damned himself and took great pleasure in doing it.
Damn I love this comment
@@shawnfoster4506 Agree
Macabre’s biggest mistake in this video is the notion that the show should’ve ended with season 4 and season 5 does nothing more than show Walt getting his comeuppance. Face off doesn’t work as the series finale because Walt’s character arc isn’t complete yet, he’s the most immoral and evil character on the show but in his mind he’s still has the delusional excuse of “doing it for the family.”. At the end of Granite state that delusion final falls apart and Gretchen’s assertion that the Walt they knew was gone finally takes hold, but in his heart Walter was always Heisenberg they just never truly knew him nor did anyone else. Walts decision to return regardless of the fact his family is gone and his life is ruined shows that Walt has come to terms with being an evil man, there’s no more delusions of justification, at the same time, he can now fully appreciate his success and status in the criminal underworld. Him returning and wasting Jacks crew wasn’t about avenging Hank or saving Jesse, to Walt it was about proving to himself and everyone else around him that Welker’s gang, and Lydia were no match for Heisenberg, in his final moments Walt basks in the glory of knowing he was simultaneously one of the best Meth cooks and one of the best criminal minds in the world, after all the obstacles, all the opposition in the end the legendary Heisenberg triumphs over all and his legacy of infamy will outlive him for years to come.
I think Light Yagami is a more comparable character to Walt than Tony, key difference being that light never comes to terms with the fact that he’s evil despite being made a total fool of in his final moments.
Yes, this is what I was feeling better said. Breaking Bad was never a show about karma, it's about an evil and selfish person doing as he likes, and how everyone around him reacts to that.
One could say that he actually left the business and it was only Jessie's hatred that drove events to their eventually conclusion by teaming up with Hank and law enforcement, something Walter never saw coming. He called Jack and the nazis to kill jessie, whom he believed had found his stash. When he sees Hank he immediately panics and calls jack to go back and forget it. I don't agree that he was responsible for Hank's death.
Of course this doesn't excuse him poisoning Brock or having 8 inmates clipped within two minutes and three prisons. Telling Jessie to kill Gale was still Jessie's choice and Walt's life was on the line. It was on the line because he had to save Jessie from getting himself killed and running over the two puns. Walt turned evil but not everything he did was evil.
In season 5 BB the new characters were only less threatening because Walter had ended the most threatening criminal organization in the area (Gus and pollos). He was now the top of the food chain, season 2 Walter would’ve been terrified of Declan or uncle jack. In season 5 he’s even more powerful than they are and more terrifying, they even know to say his name in respect when he asks. It really shows how he’s taken out all the other antagonists and by process of elimination become the worst person remaining.
Very well said. The entire point of season 5 is that at this point, Walt became the villain.
@@saaimhaider8703 Yeah, and I think that's the main thesis here, that Season 4 finale would have seen him BECOME the biggest villain. Whereas Season 5's second half sees him get a redemption arc undoing the Authors original intent to turn Mr. Chips into Scarface.
Tony Montana dies a villain, Walt doesn't, I think that's crucial to OP's overview of Season 5.
Walt is the villain in season 5….
@@JaxonHaxon I disagree, because I see one key distinction in the character development and themes of Breaking Bad. I don't see Walt as moral or immoral, I see him as amoral.
What Walt was, in my opinion, was a quintessential egotist; he wanted recognition and power, whether as savior or villain. Walt's villainy up to Ozymandias was his road to egotistic satiation, and during Ozymandias and Granite State we saw the wages of his villainy and his egotism through it denied. The Schwartzes' disavowment of him didn't set him on a redemptive course, it set him on a course of satiation through different means. Blackmailing the Schwartzes to use his money to set up a trust fund, eliminating the neo-Nazis, reconciling with Skylar, and rescuing Jesse was one final exercise of power over them.
@@eacaraxe mmm mlp
I absolutely agree with your thoughts about The Soprano's finale, it's pure perfection in my book. Regarding Breaking Bad I think the point of the second part of season 5 it's to show that Walter finally embraced his dark side and became truly free which is the last thing missing in his villain transformation. Fortunately for the world he died at that very moment.
The theory of Walt’s dying fantasy falls apart once you realize that Walt didn’t know Jessy was held prisoner
He knew blue meth was still being sold, which means he knew Jesse was at least working for the Nazi dudes. In Walt’s mind Jesse is his property and no one else can control him. So it’s all relevant.
Walt could just have easily fantasized that Jesse was the damsel in distress that he needed to save.
@@gman21xx But that isn't true because he didn't even know the meth was still being made. He saved Jesse after realizing that
@@gman21xxWhat about the Charlie Rose interview at the end of the penultimate episode? He states that the meth is still out there.
Walt was there when Todd suggested leaving Jesse alive and take him captive and make him cook.
I try to look at the ending of BB as not Walt suddenly doing another 360 and fixing his mistakes but more so his stubborn nature. He likes things to be taken care of, he likes to be in control, and so when he looks at the loose ends his life will leave he tries to tie it all up himself on his own terms. I also feel like a big catalyst to him even really returning to ABQ the way he does is hearing that blue is still being sold on the streets, and he’s possessive of his recipe and of his partner. There’s the amount of him that has forgiven Jesse for Hank but a bigger part, I believe, that doesn’t want anyone controlling Jesse and his blue sky meth other than him.
Rewatch the sit down with Gus when Jesse has an issue about Thomas. Walt is on Gus’ side until Gus snaps at Jesse “look at me, not him” effectively removing Walt’s ownership over Jesse in a single sentence. That’s when he realizes Gus may be an issue down the road.
Exactly my thoughts. The ending isn't a redemption for Walt, it's him showing how far he'll go to be number one. He was pushed down all his life whether from Gretchen or social status or economic status. Thi is the catalyst for the show. Jesse has been in the meth business and was fine where he was at until walt came along and instantly wanted to be on top. This is what happens in the finally, he is at a lowest of lows and pushes his way to the top once again.
I think he really just wanted to free jesse.
Exactly
The instigating moment, though, was Walt seeing Gretchen and Elliot on (ugh) Charlie Rose taking all the credit for his work. It gave him the impetus to weave that into those loose ends to make it all work.
I think your dead on, it was always about Walt's ego.
It's incredibly fitting that Junior has to be reminded of his time with La Cosa Nostra, and the only thing he actually remembers is playing catch with Tony.
When you have a thought lingering in your mind for a long time & can't find that thing anywhere, but suddenly someone uploads a full 40 MIN video about it!!
Great analysis but I just cannot see what happens at the end of BB as a victory, more like a small measure of damage control from the absolute crushing defeat of Ozymandias.
His life is over his family hates him, they will have to live with his infamy for the rest of there lives he "may" have left them a relatively small amount of money but that is it.
9 million dollars is not a relatively small amount of money lol
Walt has a pile of £80 million dollars to leave to his family compared to that a few million is a relatively small amount.
@@RedcoatTrooper Still tho it’s 10 times more than what he originally wanted to give them
@@Johnnysmithy24 I would be happy with a few million myself.
@@stairwaytoheaven8 For that to happen, though, Jesse first had to get enslaved and see his one love interest killed and Hank had to get killed
You seem to have season 5 of BB pegged as rather optimistic and a redemption.
To me, season 4 rather worked as the ‘happy end’. They could have stopped after that season and it would have been a fine wrap up for all intents and purposes with Walt (and Jesse) basically getting away with it.
But then season 5 rolls around and basically all is turned to shit: Walt loses his family, his brother in law is killed, Pinkman sees the only person he cares for killed and himself used as a slave and Walt dies.
Season 5 completes the series’ journey from a quirky Comedy Central comedy to an increasingly darker somber harsh drama.
Agreed. Season 5 of BrBa is def the darkest of them all, and its not even close. The first 5 episodes of season 5 are more of "Now WE run the business! Haha!" As that happens, we see this evil genius side of Walter come out, who he finally can be now that he is king. That gives those episodes an odd feeling, like although Jesse is happy and theyre making fat stacks yo, Walt is truly going into the dark. And finally... they shoot a fucking kid. They take part in the murder of a child. It's a rude awakening to what world they really live in, and from there it only spirals out of control, getting more and more depressing and fucked.
@@billycostigan1247 They shoot a kid... it's been a while since I've seen BrBa, but doesn't Brock live? I only remember them killing his mother.
@@heatherperleberg7816 train heist episode. S5ep5. Dead Freight. Todd shoots the motorbike kid
@@billycostigan1247 Oh yeah, I forgot about that kid. Thanks.
Exactly, I don’t even like rewatching season 5 cause it becomes so dark and tragic it’s hard to get thru
I think that the penultimate episode's ending muddies the water on Walt's motivations being selfless or selfish. When he watches Gretchen and Elliot disavow him, I think there's a lot more a bitter spite to having them live in fear and not necessarily as much of a heroic act to help his family. I also can't say Walt reconciled with Jesse or his family. At the end of the day even if that goodbye to Skylar and Jesse had more of a sentimental outlook they will not remember him that way, and they will still know him as the man that practically destroyed their lives. No amount of money is going to make Skylar have the same relationship with her sister again. Junior hates his father and Holly growing up will only be aware of his father as a monster drug dealer. Even if Walt recognized his selfish nature at the end I never saw it meaning much to everyone around him. His family has the money, but at what cost. Bit disorganized comment but those are my 2 cents. Great video either way. Watching this was the first thing I did after I finished the sopranos a couple hours ago. Great show
So you're saying Tony literally died because Meadow couldn't parallel park
👍
@@MacabreStorytelling , still waiting to see where Many Saints of Newark will take the series.
Edited: SO about what I said....
@@osmanyousif7849 I can a tell you, thanks to.this video, that the prequel will end with Tony finding out she's pregnant
@@osmanyousif7849 it's a prequel, so I don't think it'll have an effect on the main series or its ending
So women
I always thought Tony gets whacked at the end. But god damn, your interpretation of Tony finally seeing the light in the last episode just added a whole another dimension that I never could’ve thought about.
Well the directer let it slip years ago. Tony dies. Bobby foreshadows exactly how it'd go. He later tried to make it a play your own adventure, but the dude who wrote it slipped it before realizing how powerful the speculation community needs shit to be open ended.
@@IAmTheDoctor00 Director let what slip
@@imperfect_dan7519 i think he said he dies at one point. But idk atm I'm a bit too far in to defend my statement. I'm sure you can find it somewhere.
@@IAmTheDoctor00 yeah he had an original ending where Tony more obviously died, but accidentally said “the two endings were only slightly different”
@@IAmTheDoctor00 think he said he originally planned for him to die at the end but decided to change the ending and leave it ambiguous to leave it to the imagination
I loved both the endings. Breaking Bad ties up every loose end, which is not how often things happen in real life, but it is a fictional show. Sopranos ends on a massive cliffhanger that was more unique in its own way. I love both the endings, but I would choose breaking bad slightly over Sopranos.
I'm jk none of them are even close compared to game of thrones ending, which was a masterpiece 🙄😜
While Sopranos ends on a cliffhanger, it's not as big as people think. It's either Tony dies, or... well you just watched 6 seasons of what the alternative will be. It would be the exact same thing. Tony is the same person in the finale that he is in Episode 1, and his family kind of is too. If you think Tony lives, just start the whole series over and that's what his life would be like. Time is a flat circle.
Lol in every way.
Don’t mention these two mediocre shows on the same breath as Game of Thrones 😤😤. The ending of GOT was the biggest masterpiece of storytelling to ever exist. The Sapronos and Brekin Bad don’t come close!!!😤😤
@@Johnnysmithy24 No. It is not. It was a big trash fire of an ending where the writers became idiots.
@@captainhowlerwilson508 Google the word “sarcasm”. It will blow your mind I swear
Season 5 isn't necessary because walt needs to pay. Season 5 is necessary to complete the metaphor of Icarus. He flew too high and was struck down. Yes, Walt technically gets away with it, but he doesn't really get away with it. His empire has burned to the ground, his family despises him, and he's driven everyone he loves away from him
I don’t quite agree with your take on Walter White. It’s too black and white for me. I don’t think it’s just the fully evil man that was bubbling under the surface that gets revealed. Rather, it is a more complex mix.
Walter is definitely shown not to have been as squeaky clean as we’re first led to believe. Especially ego and vanity are indeed strong drivers and have indeed been festering inside for a long time. But he also has made real choices for a ‘good’ life (being a teacher, a dad, etc). I read it more as him letting this ego get the better of him as he suddenly realizes the power he has developed.
I also don’t see his reaction upon the news of the receding cancer as necessarily indicating his ‘true motivation’ as you put it. I see it rather as the venting of his fear when realizing his natural ‘out’ has all of a sudden completely disappeared. All of a sudden, he needs to face consequences of his choices and behavior again. The one thing he had ‘going for him’ that led him to his new found assertiveness now suddenly stripped away.
Here he has 2 choices: cash in his chips and walk away (quit while he’s ahead) or double down and go for a fully criminal life. That’s why his true downfall starts there.
I was too little to see the sopranos, I just finished now at 28 years old(pretty late because I forgot about it) two great shows each
Still waiting for the Many Saints if Newark.
It was unbelievable watching while it was airing in real time. I had this strange personal connection to it. It’s the most captivating show I have ever experienced. No other show even came close, neither before nor after.
Another equally great show is the shield !
The first season is ok then it gets as good as any show . Check it out
Brilliant analysis. I always knew a lot of the stuff in the Sopranos finale, but man, all the stuff about his family and Uncle Jun's last seen, leading to him being appreciative of his family...man, I never thought about THOSE little details. Nice.
Its amazing the things you pick up on when you rewatch the Sopranos a few times and deep dive into all the analyses out there.
Like how in the final episode there's several scenes where Paulie and Patsy talk about arranging a hit on someone at the Bing. Presumably they're talking about Phil Leotardo but they never mention him specifically, and given that both have good reasons to see Tony whacked; revenge in Patsy's case and self preservation for Paulie (who was definitely aware of what Tony was thinking on their boat trip in Florida), I'm now entirely convinced they had Tony clipped.
I think the ending to Breaking Bad is still good, even very good. The thing is the Sopranos is genius. Breaking Bad is a more conventional story imo and never really defied genre in the way the Sopranos does. I’m sure Vince Gilligan could have tried to make the last season of BB something truly special and different, but instead there’s a lot of risk to that, you might fall on your face. So instead he played it safe and went with something more tried and true and crowd pleasing. Overall, I’d never say anything about Breaking Bad is terrible or totally out of place thematically, but it either didn’t have the brains or the balls to defy TV conventions like the Sopranos did.
This sums up my thoughts about the show exactly. It is good but at the end of the day it was never in the same league as The Sopranos, never necessarily even tried to be.
The Sopranos finale fell flat on it's face for basically everyone when it aired. It was a cheap ending and people felt like it cheated them out of a proper ending. They couldn't come up with a proper scene so they just cut to black instead. It came off lazy.. which sort of a microcosm of the entire show from the beginning. So many major plot holes even major ones like who is boss of NJ. People tend to just check their brain at the door with the Sopranos because it had a lot of comedy in it.
@@dociebiemowie915 I think you checked your brain at the door, because you clearly don’t understand the point of the final scene at all
@@greggoat6570 You think Breaking Bad is bad? Better Call Saul is worse.
They had the evil protagonist like Saul suddenly did a 180 in the 2nd act of the final episode for the sake of “redemption” even though there was no indication that he will redeem himself what so ever in the previous 10 seasons.
@@nont18411Saul is not Walt. Saul was never a terrible criminal or killer like Gus, Walt or even Mike. He was a sleazeball quasi genius lawyer and he didn't have the "the world is mine" attitude like the others. In case you missed the whole God damned backstory of Saul, and the speech of how he took the bad choice road and was in way over his head. Still I didn't like the ending as much as BrBa and Sopranos but it's not indefensible to do a 180 after years of horrifying experiences and being on the run. Not to mention factor in reflection on his actions in which digression occurs with Walt and Tony. Saul becomes increasingly reflective, mostly. The others do not. They're fine in their rationalizations. Saul is not and it shows in the dialog and acting.
Disagree with your point that Walt doesn't do anything morally worse than S4 in S5. I agree that a lot of elements of S5 are weaker than S4 but I think in part that's because we like seeing the protagonist achieve his high point, which is definitely the end of S4. S5 is about losing control, and the moral degradation of Walt completely consuming him. He murders Mike in a fit of rage. It happens for no real reason, Walt admits in Mike's last scene that he could just have gotten the names from Lydia. It's just pure ego, which I would argue is the real motif of BB, not moral descent. I also think you're underplaying Drew Sharp- yeah, Walt doesn't pull the trigger, but he's an accessory to murder of a child. And he ultimately partners with the murderer and chooses Jack's gang of intentionally way-over-the-top, obviously bad-guys neo-Nazi thugs over Jesse, who is obviously a proxy son for Walter throughout the entire series. And then there's Ozymandias, in which he completes that betrayal by condemning his own proxy-son to a fate which is arguably worse than death, enslaved by Jack's gang. "I watched Jane die" is Walt's lowest point in the series, not bombing a nursing home and poisoning a child. He's almost completely fallen and is using his absolute last modicum of power to destroy one of the people he loves the most. Walt's pride has taken him from doing everything "for his family" to absolutely destroying his family.
If we treat BB as a lesson about ego and not moral descent, then the final season becomes completely necessary. Walt's life falling apart isn't just satisfying, it's crucial to see that pride is ultimately self-destructive. We leave Walt in S4 at his absolute height- pride has given him unmitigated victory. I think the penultimate scene in BB is the true resolution of Walt's character, it works in the same way as Junior's "That's nice." It's Walt completely giving up his "pride and ego" as Mike calls it. Handing Jesse the gun, that's the moment. Walt finally drops all pretense, all his scheming and manipulation, and tells Jesse what he wants. And Jesse breaking free and not shooting Walt is the natural conclusion to their story. Those two scenes where Walt's pride dies are the real conclusion to the series- "I liked it, I was good at it" and "I want this" directed to the two people in his life who mean the most to him. Giving up his ego is what gives him the real win. It's not about Walt needing to pay or suffer, it's about Walt needing to see the light, and how far things have to go for him to see it. Turns out that dying alone having lost everything and left nothing behind is how far- as you point out there's no real other option for Walt at that point but to go back. Walt is such a corrupt person that he has to be left with literally no other options than humiliation to see that humility is the right course. You might say that it's Walt playing up his hero fantasy, and that's certainly partly true. I think his final scenes with Gretchen and Elliot are a good counter-point to my argument and more favorable to your narrative- though even that's underwritten by the much less serious, almost comic-relief ending we get to that scene where the hitmen are just Badger and Pete. But going back pretty much guarantees some kind of final encounter with Skylar, and I personally believe Walt knows that Jack's gang isn't going to kill Jesse. In those encounters, Walt definitely isn't playing hero.
This was a great video. I was able to predict a few of the points you were going to make before you made them, because your argument made a lot of sense even if I didn't agree with it, and you did a good job explaining it. I think one of the main messages of both shows is that there's no way to balance a legitimate life and a life of crime. The criminal side will always consume and corrupt everything adjacent to it. I largely agree with your comments on the Sopranos, and I've only seen the show once as opposed to 3-4 times for BB, so that's why I don't have much to say about it.
This deserves more views! I always appreciate a creator putting this much time and effort into their videos. Great job.
I've always thought that the sort of "moral" of Breaking Bad is more that one must find ways of balancing the darker and benevolent tendencies that they have, or their life spirals out of control, rather than it being a simple thematic shift from light to dark. Walt's life pre-diagnosis is miserable, he's mocked, belittled, and generally taken advantage of, and this is mostly due to his inability to stick up for himself and weather things out. Once he gets a taste of power, he is addicted as those he peddles his meth to, and due to him being deprived of agency for most of his life, refuses to give it up even at the cost of everything he once valued. Eventually, his agency is once again stripped, and he is forced to reconcile the man he once was and his values with the man he has become. When he finally is able to do this, he is able to accomplish everything he set out to do: Provide for his family, go out on his own terms, and assert to the world that he is a man to be respected. He even manages to rescue his partner, who he abused and mistreated, so that he will have a chance to escape and live his own life. So in my opinion, the finale works fantastically, but through the lens you presented I can see how you came to your own conclusions.
I like this interpretation. I hope that the guy who made the video sees This, id be interested in what he thinks of this interpretation.
I agree with your assessment of Walt as a character and what drives it's still a terrible ending because Walt is meant to be something of a tragic villain but he goes out like a hero subverting or even reneging on the the moral messages the show is definitely trying to send.
I think you're on to something, but I don't agree with everything. Walt's initial desire is the only thing he achieved. He needs money to leave his family after he dies. This is his primary reason for returning in the finale. His secondary reason is revenge. He didn't go in to rescue Jesse so much as he did it to assert his power over those men. He is addicted to the status and power and his final act is setting himself back on top of the pyramid.
I don't think the show is about balance. The episode (can't remember the name of it) when Walt is teaching about chirality is the moral of the story. On the one hand, you have a chemical (man) who has these traits in this order and is benevolent or at least benign, on the other hand you have a chemical that has the same components in a different order that is toxic and deadly. The show is about the recombination of those components that change Walt from a benign human into a toxic one and, possibly, a reshifting of them to get back to the benign. Whether that happens or not is unimportant, but the initial shift is what the show is about. The conversation Macabre uses with Gretchen is a little misleading as I don't think Walt really thinks they forced him out. The purpose of that conversation is to intimidate her and keep her away from his family, so the things he is saying aren't exactly honest on purpose, but the way in which Walt thinks will most effectively keep her and Elliot away. Look at his face after, he isn't happy about the things he said.
I don't think he had his agency stripped before the end. A death sentence (cancer) is not the same as stripping of agency. Walt has choices and makes them with purpose and intent. He didn't reconcile with his family. Skylar will never forgive him. He just owns up to his responsibility. Junior really hates him. Marie will always hate him. There is no reconciliation, only an acknowledgment of guilt. You didn't say this but Macabre did, so I thought I'd address it.
Overall I agree that the finale works. I prefer it to Sopranos, as I do with the whole show. I think everyone gets something similar but slightly different from it.
i agree with a LOT of what you’ve said here, and you give a lot to think about. but i will say i think it’s a disservice to reduce season 5 of BB to mere fan service
I also slightly disagree with the Breaking Bad ending...only slightly. That is that I still think it can be read as Walter choosing to walk away from his old life completely and fully live out his twisted fantasy of being a dangerous gangster who is also this gun-toting put-upon lone hero. We see what he does to the Schwartzes to secure his children's future, but never know how likely this is to succeed. In the show, we constantly see I'll gotten money get taken by the cops, cause problems when others come looking for it, or just how much stress it brings. We are also shown how canny Skylar is about sussing out Walt's attempts to get it to her. Jesse's relationship with Walt isn't really repaired, he calls Walt out for trying to emotionally manipulate him one last time and refuses to kill him, telling him to do it himself. Skylar is clearly distraught and shaken by seeing him, and nothing in Walt's life is fixed. He dies a hero in his own perception, but the camera pans out to show his body literally overshadowed by the meth empire that is his legacy in the form of the large chemical processing machines he dies beside. I think the only way they could have made it more obvious would have been to play Sinatra's "My Way" over the whole thing. The finale isn't Walt vindicated, it's Walt closing the door on reality. On any chance at doing the right thing by turning himself in. It drives home just how much this has been his fantasy all along, and how much of a selfish asshole he truly is.
But if nobody else saw it that way, then maybe it wasn't terribly clear. That's definitely what I walked away from it with though.
I agree
Thank you for this. The Sopranos deserves a bigger place in popular consciousness
If you keep this quality up you'll have a ton of subs in no time
Your GoT rewrites were also incredible. The show I wish it was
Love this channel
Both great shows. One is a fast moving river (Breaking Bad) the other is an ocean (The Sopranos)
The Sopranos is more like a pond.
@macabre storytelling so glad someone finally said it! I was telling my husband a few months ago TS's ending>BB's only to find found out he'd never even seen The Sopranos. He tried to say "I'm not really into macho mob stuff" to which I countered that BB is ENTIRELY based around organized crime, it's just not Italian. Needless to say, he relented and loved The Sopranos in spite of himself and I didn't have to file for divorce.
Wow this was some great analysis! I had always felt that the Sopranos finale was saying more than was generally perceived and the Breaking Bad finale was too much of a redemption story.. but you really articulated things in a way I hadn't thought of before. So glad this video got recommended to me, keep up the great work!
Breaking Bad wasn’t a redemption story lol. Walt never redeemed himself, he just tried to make some things right before leaving. He still died a narcissistic man who ruined his family’s life, and Jesse’s.
@@Johnnysmithy24 He didn't even do that to begin with. He just did what he originally wanted to do. He gave the money to his family because that was his original goal. He got rid of Lydia because it was what he wanted to do. He killed Jack's gang and freed Jesse because he could. Hell, the killing of Jack's gang was purely out of either revenge or ego. Freeing Jesse is the one thing Walter did that wasn't driven by his ego. Hell, he dies surrounded by chemistry as that was the one true thing he loved besides himself
The Sopranos finale serves as a less is more finale that challenges the audience, and Breaking Bad to me is a finale I look at with admiration for thinking about every segment of the audience. I love ambiguous endings, but there’s also nothing wrong with finales that wrap up things to a satisfying conclusions. As long as it makes sense for the story. The sopranos not knowing what your fate is is perfect for Tony, and Walt making sure he comes out on top is perfect for his character.
This is good work. It's not the case, though, in my opinion, that the finale frames Walt as a hero. It isn't subtext but rather explicit text that Walt is haunted by his name being dragged through the mud publicly. He wants criminals to see him as someone to fear and admire. He wants everyone else, the world his family operates in, to see him as someone to admire, too. These goals conflict, but he still and always has believed them. Season Four sees him become someone feared/admired in the criminal world. The finale is all about him making a last ditch, selfish effort to be seen and admired as a hero. It's selfish, not heroic, and that's why it's a good finale. It makes good on the theme not only with Walt's role as a criminal, but also his role as a man.
So he goes out being seen as he would like to be seen. It's a neat victory for Walt and satisfies the viewer. This is what is contentious.
I like the end of BB because Walt's "redemption" is completely insufficient. He kills a few nazis and extorts a rich couple. He basically just continues to embrace being a criminal. I mean he's being *slightly* less evil than before. But he's learned very little.
I haven’t finished The Sopranos yet... guess I have to binge in order to watch this video soon
Although I do not agree on certain things you said on BB's ending, you do have strong arguments and I feel like now I have to rewatch the show to see if you really convinced me haha. Honnestly, this video is really good, I look forward to see your next finale face-off !
Walt is the definition of being nice doesn’t mean you’re good. He was just a weak man who never had the opportunity to be bad, until he had the proper justification.
I think 'El Camino' effectively put an end to Norm MacDonald's theory
I think the BB finale is less a rushed attempt at redemption and more of Walt's drive to go out on top. The phone call to Skylar after taking out Gus sums it up "I won." To Walt, the ends justify the means. And this philosophy isn't something he happened upon, he believes in the Heisenberg theory that the universe is nothing more than choas and there is no real good and evil. In the end, he won. His victory could be viewed as selfless but in reality, just like Tony it's another smokescreen, a justification for his action. Ironically this further gives Norm's theory credence. In his death fantasy he'd obviously be justified.
Great breakdown of two great shows! I 100% agree with you. When I watched the finale of The Sopranos live on HBO all those years ago, I hated it. But as the years have gone by Ive grown to love it more and more. On the flip side, when I watched the finale of Breaking Bad live, I loved it. But as time goes by it becomes more forgettable.
I don't see how you could ever call Breaking Bad's ending forgettable
I loved both endings and found them satisfactory. With Breaking Bad, in the end it's true Walter gets away with it and ties everything up neatly at the end of his life. I enjoyed seeing that even if the "morally congruent" ending would have been for him to suffer for his sins. Life is rarely morally congruent and sometimes bad guys get away with it.
Walt did suffer though. He lost everything before his death and later went on to tie up loose ends as a redemption of sorts.
@@callinater6133 Not exactly, he died before he even got the full consequences of his actions. And those consequences are now transferred to another protagonist, Jimmy McGill. That is the true punishment.
@@nont18411 That was not punishment. Hell, Jimmy wouldn't even be fully punished had he not bragged about it to begin with. Had Jimmy not decided to take full responsibility for everything Walter did, barely anything would have happened to him
Breaking Bad is my go to example of when a series WANTS to end and does so correctly versus when a series is TOLD to end by the network and so the final season leaves much to be desired.
Not saying I completely like the ending of BB, but at least it’s the ending the show writers wanted to have happen instead of thinking they had more seasons to come but get cancelled by the network.
Heather Holt what did u feel about the sopranos ending?
Star LORD to be honest I hadn’t watched the Supranos and a friend told me the ending, just blurred it out one day, so it kinda ruined the shock for me. But, if it is meant that Tony gets killed when it fades to black, I like it. I like the ambiguity.
Reminds me of the end of (and beginning of) The Rules Of Attraction. It starts and ends Mid sentence. And you don’t know what was going on before or what may happen after.... but you have a pretty good idea.
Did you like the Supranos ending?
Heather Holt I liked it but I loved the ending of BB
@@HeatherHolt When you can't even distinguish a show's ending and a broadcast technical failure, I think that is highly indicative of problems. The Sopranos' ending comes off as a huge joke.
@Ryan Akwar Which makes it terrible, because it comes off as a huge joke.
Walter White’s true nature just came out over the course of the show. He got a thrill out of cooking meth, killing people, evading Hank, manipulating Jesse, and controlling everyone around him. He felt powerless his whole life, then he got drunk on the power of being such an effective criminal and he loved it. He was always evil.
Tony is constantly suppressing his true nature, he was born into being the mob boss but he’s not evil by nature. Quite the opposite. I think all the violence, murder and crime is the source of Tony’s depression. He’s bad, but he’s not Walter White bad.
Thrill of: cooking meth - not exactly, he took pride in his product being 99% clean, better than the others, that his extensive knowledge of chemistry made him stand out and gave him recognition, both psychological and financial. And he was still struggling with realization that no matter how much he produces his ex-friends are going to outdo him monetarily ("billions"). He needed recognition of his worth to satisfy his quite narcissistic ego.
killing people - same, nothing indicates he enjoyed it, more like he just did it out of necessity or emotion.
evading Hank - probably, he toyed with him for a bit
manipulating people - again, something he deemed necessary and didn't think much of
I think Tony is both product of his environment but also a person who refuses to change his life, rather using his newfound knowledge of psychology to become better at his lifestyle (as stated in the end of the series). I think he and Walter are just two different types and it's pointless to compare their "evilness".
I don’t think that is a fair distinction. Tony is just more stable and fits into the status quo to a much greater extent than walter does.
It wasn't walter's true nature. It was his shadow self. Breaking Bad is a tale of the dangers of the shadow self and how it can change people if said people didn't control it. Everyone has a shadow self that is full of malicious intent that we have to keep in check. Walter wasn't always an evil guy. There is alot of proof throughout the show that Walter wasn't always evil on the inside. Like his talk with his family about his cancer, him seeing skyler reading books about cancer patients and then has a look of sympathy on his face and then goes to hug her and tell her that he changed his mind,etc
Finally found someone sharing the same opinion on season 5 of breaking bad! Thank you for this.
Macabre, you pointed out that Walter had a chance in season 1 to stop his drug production because Elliot Schwartz offered to pay his medical treatment bills, but Walter still had to make money to support his family and pay the bills after he died, which he needed drug money for.
He didn’t need to. It’s not like they would’ve been homeless.
@@logancarlile8895 but they wouldn't of been "set".
Walter White was dead in the series finale -- not literally dead, but metaphorically, a zombie-like version of what he had become. His final days saw him acting as an avenging ghost. His ultimate confession to his wife, "I liked it."
The sopranos had an throughly provoking finale and BB had an ending that provided closure, it’s like apples to oranges
A surprise, to be sure. But a welcome one!
unusual veracity absolutely! Amazing breakdown of these two epic shows! 👏👏
Hello there
I gotta tell you...after having finished The Sopranos for the first time this week, and having watched Breaking Bad 3 or 4 times, I love this video. Love it. I think you made great points, and you backed them up with even greater reasoning. But...I heavily disagree with your take on Season 5 of Breaking Bad. Let me preface this by saying your review of The Sopranos ending is perfect and I have been looking for someone to say exactly what you said about it. But I personally hold the ending of Breaking Bad at an even higher level than that of the Sopranos. You say that Breaking Bad isn’t exactly a show about morality, but rather how evil and twisted Walter can get before he dies. Let me ask you, is that really all you wanted from the show? It seems that by looking at Walter White’s character development that you COMPLETELY ignore the complete flip that Hank made as a character. Hank actually turns out to be the hero of this story. And Jesse is the man Hank was supposed to save. Jesse was supposed to be the Princess Peach to Hank’s Mario. Now granted, its obviously a lot more complex than that, but all of this has had so much buildup throughout the entire series. You say that the Nazis are comically so evil that Walter seems good when that isn’t even the point. Season 1 sees Walter living a horrible life, belittled and disrespected by nearly everyone, and living a life of hopeless inaction, and we see Hank as a condescending arrogant prick. Throughout the show, we see Hank brought to the lowest of lows...and only when he can’t even take a piss without the help of his wife...when even that is taken away from him, do we see Hank become the literal hero of this story. As much as this show is about the points you highlighted, it’s also the telling of the villain winning, as the villain, Walter White, won from start to finish.
At the end of the show Walter isn’t really shown as a villain tho.
split that giant paragraph into smaller sections.
@@bozotheclown666 he is showed as a protagonist, but he is definitely the villain of this story. He destroys every other main characters life
@@ColorMatching lol my bad
@@bozotheclown666 I disagree all the way and that's why I strongly disagree with this video. Breaking Bad season 5 was a masterpiece for a number of reasons including Walter stopped lying to himself and everyone around him. Walter White was a bad man but he got a late start in life when he started doing evil things and nobody in his family or former friends will miss him. He got his empire and left a legacy but he sold his soul.
Love both shows! Grew up watching Sopranos as a young kid but I was so young I didn’t know to appreciate how incredible it was….not until rewatching it as an adult! BB on the other hand was the first series ever that I became a huge fan of now there was other shows after that but BB I was a legit fan of before the 3rd season dropped! Both shows are great examples of why people get so emotionally invested in fictional series!
Good video and analysis, but I disagree with the assessment that what happens after the thematic question is answered doesn't matter. Sure, you could arguably end a show or story or whatever at that point, but if there are other things in the air that should be dealt with, and if dealing with them appropriately would add to the answer of the thematic question more than leaving them open-ended, they should be dealt with. Although I definitely agree with everything you said about how BB ended.
Agreed. That is why Season 5 of BB isn't a total wash, since I felt the writers wanted to make the show more into a morality tale, which they did well with Ozymandias... but I feel the finale sort of dampens or walks back on the entire function of Season 5 as a whole. I would have rather had Ozymandias be the finale of Season 5 OR just remove Season 5 altogether.
The debate basically comes down to this
Walter White = Embodiment of *PRIDE*
Tony Soprano = Embodiment of *REPUGNANCE*
So which is stronger pride or repugnance?
Not even a contest. The sopranos has much more well written characters and explores much deeper and a greater variety of themes like death and the afterlife, karma, various philosophies, religion, the social decline and corporatization of 21st century America, how cycles of abuse and trauma are passed down inter-generationally, the effectiveness of therapy and institutional psychology/psychiatry while using Melfi as a vehicle to explore characters hidden and often ambivalent thoughts and motivations and the reasons behind them.
Braking bad didn't touch anything half as thoughtful, it looks like a soap opera by comparison. Not that it's not enjoyable and high quality, but it feels like entertainment while sopranos feels like art to me.
The dialogue in the sopranos is also much more layered and well-written in a way where the characters, their motivations and thoughts implied through realistic dialogue make them feel much more like real people than the characters in breaking bad who are generally one or two dimensional and say everything completely literally, often not talking as people do IRL.
But it's almost like apples and oranges because the sopranos is a philosophical character-driven family drama disguised as a family/crime drama, and breaking bad is just plainly a plot-driven family/crime drama.
“Soap opera by comparison” is very harsh but hard to argue with. The Spanish language adaptation literally was produced like one of those, and it actually makes sense in that format, no matter how much BB fans will performatively cry/laugh at how inferior it is.
So the question of "How evil will Walter get?" is present in season 5. That question is raised as Walter objects to killing Jesse only to later change his mind. That question is answered once and for all in Ozymandias when Walter tries to bargain all his money for Hank's life.
Everything after Hank's death is kind of a Return of King style plot wrap up after the story has already climaxed. But I like those episodes anyway. Granite State is probably my favorite episode in the whole series. On my last rewatch these episodes felt more like a prequel to El Camino than the finale of Breaking Bad and that made them better.
I strongly disagree that jessie and skyler's stories are inconsequential to breaking bad. Jessie matters just as much as walt to the story. Imo i felt walt was 'bad' from the beginning and the ending was less him atoning for his sins and more him being stubborn and refusing to lose anything other than his own life, one last example of walt's ego driving him, but this time driving him to do something good.
Great video as usual, but it needs more Norm Macdonald
I actually agree with much of what you said about Season 5, but I disagree with how you presented the finale being contradictory. Like you said, the show has a nihilistic outlook, and I believe Walt getting everything he wants by the end of the series exemplifies this well. He's committed atrocities, horrible acts. I don't believe he did find redemption, I believe he made it for himself in his mind, because he outsmarted everyone else. He died satisfied, not because he deserved it, but because he could. There was no bad ending for him because it is a nihilistic show, that even bad people can win and die happy, there is no 'good and evil'.
But I actually do agree that season 4 would have been the perfect end. Thanks for this video! Your analysis on the Sopranos front was all perfect!
Might not be your kind of show but twin peaks season 3 also has the perfect ending for its own themes and context. Glad to see quarantine has people acknowledging the sopranos’ title belt
Twin Peaks was already one of the best shows ever but Twin Peaks season 3 gave it the one thing it was a missing, A proper send off and It's damn near perfect.
The finale of Twin Peaks the Return actually has more of a parallel to BB to me. If BB had ended with season 4 you’d have had a happy ending for Walt: he overcomes his enemy and if Pinkman and he get out of the game they basically get away with all their activities. It’s season 5 where things really go to shit (Hank killed, Walt irreconcilably separated from his family, Jesse enslaved and even though freed later his love interest is killed leaving an orphaned boy).
Similarly, if TPR had ended with the penultimate episode you would have had the typical soap opera happy end (TP was always in part a parody of soap operas). But the final episode blows that up again. At least for the main two characters.
@@BishopWalters12 I thought season 2 already had a perfect ending. But thoroughly enjoyed The Return. It did however contain a lot of criticism of the modern urge for nostalgia tv/cinema
Macrabre: Makes an unpopular opinion.
Me: Ooooh! Let me get the popcorn out!
Just bc a man pays for his crimes, doesnt mean he has to "go to hell". I found the bittersweet end to BrBa to be very fitting. Bc at the end of the day, Heisenberg will always come out on top, especially since he now has nothing to lose. Walt's capabilities have surpassed everyone else's, so an unleashed Heisenberg who has accepted his "defeat" can now just do what little "good" he can. Walt pays for his crimes dearly: destroying his family, losing all love and respect of his son, and being seen by the world as the true monster he was. The finale is essentially an epilogue and one last act of necessary evil done by Walt. You dont have to feel happy about it, but the character of Walt always made me have some sympathy for him, no matter how much I fucking hated him.
I like this. Please tell me Dexter will be in the next one of these.
Lol I honestly think it ended so poorly I can't even begin to analyze it in any critical way.
I loved Dexter (particularly season 1), but that finale did rather suck. It didn’t leave a bad taste in my mouth, though: that was one character that didn’t need closure for me.
In fact, after season 7, I felt that had pretty much done all they could do with the character and the whole 8th season felt unnecessary.
And now I hear there’s apparently a season 9 coming this Fall. 8 years after the show ended. Can’t wait 🙄
Showtime really doesn't have a clue in terms of knowing when to end a show. Almost everything they produce ends up running far longer than they should and the quality gets noticably worse.
As for Dexter, how they didn't have Deb take him out is one of the biggest misses for a once great show. Pretty much everything after Trinity is rather sub par.
Barry vs Mr In between finale: Wow vs I'm Not Leaving
Everything after Ozymandias is the epilogue, imo.
Agreed. I while it may not be the finale, it was the climax of the series. It was what had been built up since season one
Indeed, I’ve always firmly believed in the BB finale dying fantasy theory for all the same reasons you said it would work if canon. In my mind that’s exactly what it was because it just makes good sense.
I like to listen to videos like these while I do stuff but yours are always so well thought out and put together I usually forget what I’m doing and end up fully watching! Well done! (And very nice. I try to rewatch both these shows once a year they’re so damn good!)
How about him manipulating an old guy in a wheelchair 2 blow himself and their mutual enemies up?! In real life, workers, residents and visitors most likely would've been collateral damage!
Walter didn’t manipulate Hector. Hector had no Salamancas anymore to live for. Him killing Gus this way was a perfect revenge for him and ending his own life.
I really enjoyed this video, but I feel like the narrative change in season 5 is a great thing for BB. I think after season 4, we have officially seen Mr. Chips turned into Scarface. I think season 5 goes in depth on how one can come to terms being Scarface. Walt finally realizes that he wanted to live his life in thrill and be the best at something. That scene with Skyler was one of the best in the series but you barely discussed that. Nonetheless, I love both shows endings for different things, but Walt coming to terms about why he did everything makes that ending work for me.
How Walt made Gretchen and Elliott obey him to get his own way/money was another demonstration of how Walt hadn't changed at all. Walt was still very much "any means to an end" for whichever reason he sought to justify, which sat uncomfortably with him having learned his lesson, or having improved as a person.
I didn't appreciate the way I felt expected to root for his behaviour, on the basis that he was doing it "for his family". It didn't feel like he WAS doing it for his family, so much as trying to put Gretchen and Elliott back in their place, by wielding his potentially deadly authority once again.
Really great video, acutely perceptive analysis. Feel like I spent 40 minutes in film school.
❤
Great video and I liked your points- but I respectfully disagree. Sopranos deserves all the praise for the more dark and experimental ending but that doesn’t mean breaking bads more crowd pleasing finale doesn’t work for the show. Breaking bad (while a dark show) was never as dark in tone or as pessimistic as Sopranos. Walter facing his past and doing his best to make up for his evil was believable to me. He may have been a selfish man- but I don’t think it was out of the realm of possibility he would come to his senses and try to right his wrongs. The character of Tony was exposed as much more of a psychopath (especially by the end of the show) and it would not have worked if he tried to be, as you said, a “quasi hero” in the last couple episodes. To sum up, I believe Walter could have been rehabilitated while Tony had no chance of character rehabilitation.
I disagree with your analysis of the BB finale, but this video is so well put together that I have to leave a like. To me, both Sopranos and BB have fitting and thematically appropiate endings.
U gotta make more vids man I would love the sopranos Tony death breakdown/clues But also more recent shows Like Ozark for example I’m really enjoying it
The last 3 episodes of BrBa season 4 are absolutely amazing. Crawl Space, End Times, and Face/Off are brilliant. Yes, even better than Sopranos.
@Nayan Jyoti Nath Ozymandias is better than all of these
@Nayan Jyoti Nath I agree with you there. Ozymandias is the greatest tv episode of all time, and Sopranos is the greatest show. Breaking bad had a better ending though. Even Vince Gilligan said Walter White wouldn't exist without Tony Soprano. I do think that Walter White is the greatest and most complex character of all time.
@Nayan Jyoti Nath I get why, because in terms of narrative, the sopranos end is far superior for all the reasons in the video. But, I just thought that the breaking bad ending was SO satisfying. Baby blue by Badfinger playing in the final scene was just amazing
Weirdest episode of GoT rewrite yet, but I'm not against it!
You sir have just sold me on the sopranos finale well done 👍
This was good.
I would have been happy with Ozymandius being the finale, if not ending at season 4.
How would season 4 be a good ending????
@@Johnnysmithy24
For the reasons explained in the video.
@@ScotisticDad I didn’t watch the video because I haven’t seen The Sopranos and I don’t wanna spoil it
Ending Breaking Bad with season 4 or Walter having a revenge dream would've been beyond stupid.
I don't find walter to have been "bad all along". Bitterness and rage don't make you a bad person.... He's story is tragic because he has never let himself guide his own life ("It feels like I'm never making my own choices"). He let himself be humiliated and kept his head down. The cancer gave him the chance to feel powerful. He was not willing to give it away or be positioned as the weak anymore (being charity for Gretchen and Elliot, not having an empire, be seen as the person in danger and not "the one who knocks", etc).
He is complex, because he also always cared. About his son, wife (he framed himself for Hank's death as part of trying to clear skyler's name), Hank (was very upset about his death...), Jesse (which he sacrificed a lot for. His entire fued with Gus and the danger to his life was saving Jesse's ass).
So the finale is complex. Walter doesn't get everything he wants. He ties threads because he lost everything. He is not regretting things, he admits his true motives: doing it all because of his life of powerlessness and insecurity. Because he finally felt powerful.
That being said,
I felt the machine gun was over the top and his plan working too perfectly, with not being detected, parking just at the right place, killing everyone successfully... almost cartoony.
I would have wanted to see something more complex and nuanced there.
I also always wanted to see a version of the scene with skyler in which she doesn't say "If I hear one more time that you did it for the family"... because I felt it worked even without it, with less spoon feeding. You complete in your own head Walter's explanation to be his regular one "everything I did... I did ..... " (Skyler looking pissed, almost disgusted, we think "for the family right?") "... I did it for me." (skyler surprised raises her head, we're surprised as well).
Brilliant video! These are my two favourite shows I’ve ever seen, and I gotta say I love both finales. You do make a great argument for why BB’s ending isn’t as lined up with what the rest of the show represents though, and I totally see your point of view. Definitely subscribing for these great analysis.
Yeah, I'll definitely admit that season 5's villains were a step down.
The virgin nazis Vs the chad Gus Fring
While I disagree with most of this video, it was well put together and like basically every vid you put out, just an enjoyable watch/listen. I think Walt's family suffered immensely due to him. Nevermind the financial issues they must have, the infamy of being "Heisenberg's family", the emotional trauma and torment they suffered through. There's just so much bad that came out of it. Adding to that, because of him, Jesse was kept as a slave for a year, so many lives were taken because of his greed, like Hank. Season 5 is the culmination of his ego manifesting when its at its highest point.. and then falling down to reap the worst consequences possible. I think the idea that a show must continuously follow a theme and stick to it and leave things ambiguous is unnecessary. It's unwanted, even. Walt went back to Albuqurque, because despite all the shit he'd done and all the lives he'd ruined, he wasn't purely just an evil man. He wanted to make things right before he passed, and that's what he did.
Still one of the best video essays out there
❤
You're overlooking the fact that Breaking Bad's finale has two elements: Walt's family and Walt's empire.
First of, he doesnt reconcile with his family. Quite the opposite. Walter Jr. rebutes him, straight up telling him to just die already. Skyler is smoking - her disillusioned defiance of Walt, a beam visually dividing the two as they talk. The only redeeming part of their confrontation is Walt admitting to Skyler (and himself) that he did it all for himself, not (just) for his family. Finally, he has to swallow his pride and funnel his fortune through Elliot and Gretchen. Elliot and Gretchen already offered their charity which he angrily refused. We see the same anger when Walter Jr. sets up an online charity, which allows Walt to launder his drug money - but again, making Walt the benefactor of others good will.
Sure, he manages to secure his family financially, but it in the end he still has to rely on (the deception of) charity.
Now, regarding his empire: Walt's attack on Jack and his gang is initiated by Badger and Little Pete informing him that the blue meth is back on the market. We've seen time and time again, that Walt is posesive and takes pride in his recipe. He cant stand the fact, that somebody else is producing /his/ meth. It's even quite possible that Walt's only reason to mention Jessy to Jack is to kill him as well. There's another video that points out how Walt's expression changes when he sees Jessy dragged in in chains, leading to Walt dragging him down and covering him as he triggers the hidden machine gun. For all Walt knew Jessy was working with the nazis, not as a slave but as a willing partner - making him a target for his prideful murder spree as well.
The only way Walt "wins" in is his death scene. He dies in the lab, the place he proved his talent and capability. But in the end he lost everything to prove how clever he was. Quite the tragic tale and far from a redemption finale.
Really, the entire finale is centered around Walt's pride and him finally admitting to himself what he is - not in an angry outburst ("I AM the danger!" "I'm in the EMPIRE building business!"), but camly saying that he liked it; that he was good at it. That this was him finally getting to live out his ambitions, not him taking the only viable option to provide for his family.
Walt finally swallowing his pride by laundering his money through Gretchen and Elliot is just as much out of necessity, as his family refuses to take his money. And saving Jessy is, quite likely, only an afterthought as he realises that Jessy was an unwilling pawn, not an enemy.
In this sense the two finales actually mirror each other. Tony realises that, in the end, the mob life doesnt matter. That what matters is his family, the little things. But all too late. Similarly, Walt realises that his pride and hubris have ruined his family, not his illness. But all too late.
I couldn't have said it better myself. He didn't win anything and season 5 shows how he's a shadow of death and misery. I want to tag on to your point: His own son, Walt Jr feels so much a anger for his father he changes his own name, killing Walter Whites legacy even in blood. The only thing Walt really got in the end was to die on his own terms. This is 100% theory, but I'm willing to bet if he didn't get shot by one of the skinheads he'd suicide by cop since he knows his cancer will lead to him dying in jail otherwise.
both finales are perfect imo but for different reasons, I will always think that breaking bad is just a better show because of the memories I have watching it live, I never got the chance to watch the sopranos live because I was to little to be watching shows like that at the time so BB will always be special to me, overall great analysis
IMO I think the breaking bad finale is amazing and thought out pretty well. You said in your video that the series would be over when Walt completes his most villainous and evil act at least by a thematic standpoint and that is exactly what happened. Walt is much more villainous and ruthless in s5 then s4 and this is evident when he whistles next to the body of a child and bragging about watching Jane die. He constantly manipulates Jessie to keep on cooking and orders someone he sees as his son to die. By doing this he allows Andrea to die and brock to be threatened. Bragging about murdering the lives of an innocent girl and almost 200 others, selling his partner into slavery to be beaten up constantly and only coming back to Albuquerque to get revenge is the most villainous act Walt has done. Although walt gives his money to his family in the finale he does this by threatening the lives of Gretchen and Elliot and he murders almost 20 people the same episode so I think it balances out. If Walt had surrendered himself in he would be the hero and the story by a thematic standpoint would be ruined but he goes to kill the nazis and Lydia and only even mentions Jesse so he doesn’t get executed quickly. He does save Jesse but doing that does not revert the fact that he did the most villainous act that he probably could and he doesn’t even apologise and he just wants Jesse to shoot him so he can end his misery. This shows Walt once again manipulating Jesse and when Jesse doesn’t choose to do so this complete Jesses arc and another one of the biggest themes of the show.
No mention of the Sopranos, another BB crying about a comparison they can’t understand
Great analysis, tho dont you think that Tony's ending is also him getting everything he wants? In the last episode we hear how he will most likely get convicted so instead of going to prison and dying there like Johnny, he gets to see and spend time with his family in his last moments and dying instantly without knowing any better.
Also I feel like you touch alot on Walters story and yes the story is mostly about him. Jesse also being a big part of breaking bad and then getting killed with Hank wouldn't be the ending he deserves.
Not necessarily, though it’s likely that Tony dies at the end it’s over for him, one of his capos has flipped which’ll lead to him going to jail, his best friend his dead. Death or not, Tony is done
-"First finale face off"
-Never made another one.
The two greatest shows of all time
My theory is that Walter didn't die. He was arrested by the cops. If you see the gunshot wound it's not direct in a vital organ. Nor is there a large pool of blood indicating he hit a major artery. A gut shot can take days to kill you from internal bleeding. Certainly plenty of time for the cops we see in the background close by to find him, call for an ambulance and handcuff him to the bed in the hospital.
To be fair, BB really never fully committed to theme, and placed more emphasis on plot, offering a more conventional ‘fun’ ending that bids adieu to the characters, with less thematic depth, but really, the story wasn’t really going for that anyway
That is wrong on many levels. It was not a conventional fun ending like some silly people who try to look smart think it is. It was an ending that was built up to. It is the cumulation of Walt’s arc of evil and revenge. The main motivation of killing the the neo nazis was him avenging Hank’s death, because Hank was still family to him. When he saw Jesse, he thought of the sorry state he was in. Not that the relationship between the two would be repaired.
@@captainhowlerwilson508 Well you see it’s a closure heavy episode that also gives us an hour of tv that contains a balance between the elements of show, i.e. humour, action, and a small dose of family drama. I mean fun as in reflective of what audiences expect from the show. But it isn’t all that interested in leaving things to ponder, for better or worse, and that is what makes it more of a quote on quote fun episode. It gives the audience what and it wants, and in walt’s downfall what it needs, but it doesn’t try to piss the audience off, which the Sopranos did with its emphasis of theme over satisfaction.
@@williamscharzenbergermoran5429 What about Breaking Bad’s ending didn’t fit the theme??
@@captainhowlerwilson508 yes!!! thank you
@@captainhowlerwilson508
What thing Walter was avenging when he killed Lydia? Killing her character was the biggest indication of writers trying to give satisfaction to audience over anything else. Every bad person must die. And another thing that irked me was Marie looked like she is working with DEA or something but I am not quite sure about it as it's been a while I watched it.
Breaking Bad had a more emotionally satisfying ending but The Sopranos had a significantly bolder, more meaningful and impactful ending. I prefer the way The Sopranos ended.
Yep
Not only Walter did save Jesse, he also gave Jesse a chance to kill him.
This is an awesome analysis! Re Sopranos -- I am not sure if Meadow's arrival would have saved Tony as he might have gallantly gotten up to let her sit on the inside of the booth.
Tony actually loved his family and it showed in how he was worried about his son's depression and Meadow's dating life. But his moral compass was a bit off though he would never harm a child or animals. Also Tony was born into that life, so of course he is who he is. And you can tell he would have had a gentle character had it not foe being born into the life. How he was affected by Gloria's suicide, hurt his mother and uncle tried to kill him, revenge for that guy that killed the horse and the stripper and the fact that he even felt the need to see a psychologist. Walter thought there was absolutely nothing wrong with him and he admitted to doing things because he like them.
Walter was a covert narcistic coward who had a breaking point with his diagnosis and as he knew he would die, he thought he was going to finally be the big strong man he wanted to be but wasn't even when he was young, strong, healthy and had potential like his friends that formed that science company. He wasn't born into that life. He sough it by manipulating a silly young drug addict half his age. And he did set out to harm that little boy and he killed that Mike guy because he caused him a narcistic injury.
This is the most crucial point that many people miss.
Viewers often cite Tony as more ruthless but Tony at the end always feels bad for what he does (with few exceptions).
Walt on the other hand always manipulates others into believing that whatever actions he exercises are fair enough and he is basically doing everything to protect his family.
This thing makes Breaking Bad unique in a particular way. Walter is not a regular person, Tony is.
That's why many people say that Sopranos is realistic because people can relate more with the Tony's character.
David Chase tried to make it as realistic as possible, but somewhere that's also the factor due to which it becomes less engaging than Breaking Bad, even though it is more subtle. Breaking Bad is not some usual crime drama. It aptly showcases the final strands of a man who is walking on the death line and the extreme measures that he can take to make people know that he is the one who should be feared before he is dead and gone.
And TBH, Season 5 of Breaking Bad was much more darker than the whole Sopranos.
I like both shows, and even though Sopranos is better than Breaking Bad in the initial run, but Season 5 of Breaking Bad surpasses not only Sopranos but literally every existing TV show that ever existed on this planet.
@@sparshbatta7070 season 6b slightly edges out imo but great analysis dude
@@sickbleeds3981 thanks for agreeing. I appreciate your intelligence to understand what others are saying. And yes, Sopranos S6B is quite dark.
Both shows did interesting things with the characters and pushed them to their limits. Both shows displayed similar lessons about trust and betrayal and how having a family really means if you a live a life of crime. Walter White is the other side of the coin for a character like Tony Soprano
Good analysis...I think that both Walt and Tony were equally evil creeps..although Tony seemed to have remorse about the lives he has ruined. Walt was totally indifferent -all he cared about was himself. Walt had many chances to quit the meth cooking business..but he always went back.
I'm a huge fan of Mr Robot and having now thoroughly watched all 3 series, I think MR can go in the convo for best show of all time. 2 in 1 seasons and one of the most efficient stories I've seen told start to finish 👀
I’ve never seen a show plummet so hard. The ending was so hilariously terrible, it is a twist I would have come up with in middle school, and then realized in high school it is much too stupid and silly. Just a completely goofy direction and ending for a series that started interesting, it was like intentional sabotage or something.
@@greggoat6570 yeah I don’t agree with that at all. Maybe this was better off as a comment of its own to state your own grievances
Brilliant video! I know it's been over a year but I hope you do more for this series, or at least something like it. Love your movie/show analysis vids
Tony is waaaay more sympathetic...the idea that Tony EVER has a chance to 'claw his way to the light' is stupid--he's in the Mafia...no way out except rathood and witness protection...both endings work...crime is something Tony is stuck in, crime is something that makes Walt feel powerful.Tony can't change, Walt could go straight before Gus and after Gus, but it's all about dominance for him since he was a doormat that got cancer. He is addicted to power and the rush. The ending is perfect with Baby Blue playing, because that is what his character arc was about, choosing crime and lust for dominance as his love over love of family
the overexplaining of the ending of Sopranos is unnecessary: it's how getting shot mafia style is: instant lights out. It's literally described in an earlier episode, as well as in Goodfellas
likewise, it's spelled out that Walt was evil all along, he is confronted and admits it, then kills Mike and admits he didn't need to
these shows and characters share crime and crime boss roles...that's the only similarity, except BB AND TS really ARE both tragedies, tragedies to the families and friends of da bosses. Tony's situation is like a cancer in that it's inherited, Walt's cancer sets off a situation revealing a diseased personality
the finale is cool with me because of Walt's need to 'win'. Not about making Walt a hero, about bringing in more baddies to outwit, while coolly tying up loose ends in the show. Walt is a hero only to people who hate loose ends or aren't thinking clearly. The show lays this out too, that to satisfy his own selfish 'will to power', he destroyed or negatively impacted not a family,THE WHOLE WORLD. think about it. it's not hyperbole, he's a meth kingpin and murderer. We are all connected. The plane crash season drives this home like a hammer. Each evil deed sends a ripple like a stone tossed in the pond of humanity. Walt in his rage threw a mountain
@Джон Таргариен Make your case...do you have a counter-argument?
I never had thought of this with Breaking Bad. Amazing analysis. I was so hyped watching the finale for the plot and characters, I missed the themes.
I'm so relieved you went with Sopranos works, Breaking Bad not so much...
The Wire and The Sopranos are my favourite shows of all time. When I watch each one I think it's the best, I can't decide.
I felt the way Walt behaves when Jessie threatens his money in a confessional monologue was weak.
How was it weak lol? And also it was not so much of a confession. It was never confirmed if it was recorded, most probably not. The plan was that he would lead them to the money, and THAT would be the evidence. Plus none of that worked anyway as they got killed lol
You know this isn't actually mean that The sopranos is better than breaking bad right. The decision will solely and always be on perspective and personal opinion. Just like this guy even his analysis is personal opinion.
@@patman0250 thanks captain obvious
@@6throundnate759 Yeah well unfortunately it's not obvious to some people.
This is a great concept. You should do a finale face off between Hannibal and Dexter.