I have 4 dualies, two I made, 2 were rtf. They are my favorite planes. All have counter rotating props so no right thrust angle has to be figured. All use a single battiery and have identical motors. Using two batteries and/or different motors could cause differential thrust as the batteries could discharge at different rates. I don't fly dualies because there is redundancy, but because they have such great flight characteristics, so stable and predictable, if not as acrobatic. I tried to connect 2 motors to 1 ESC; one motor was damaged. Maybe it was defective, as some people have had success, but I'll use 2 ESCs from now on. I know you like to build from scratch, but the LIDL gliders are great airframes for dual motors.
I appreciate your time and expertise on your videos. Thanks. I an watching your video now. On my E-Flight Twin Otter the props are CCW port side and CW starboard side with separate 20 Amp ESCs. I have replicated this exact setup and motors etc in my 1995 Graupner Partenavia. Going Lipo vs Nicad, and brushless vs original Speed 400 brushed ( can) motors has reduced wing loading of the bigger Partenavia by approx 30% .
Hi Tim thanks for explaining about the twin motor setup for brushless motors , it helped me , as I have thought about upgrading a twin model I built of the BN islander , it has flown a circuit on 400 brushed motors , but was al bit under powered , your video is a nice guide , I've got two identical brushless motors that should work fine, giving plenty of power, thanks again Tim , most enjoyable , from Tony from Bedfordshire England ,
Great Video Tim. I have several twins (Mosquito, PBY and BF110) and its a good idea to have counter rotating props. opposite handed props are quite easy to get hold of these days. Also if a motor fails on a twin unless you have huge rudder it won't counter the thrust difference. The best thing to do is throttle back point the nose down at a fairly steep glide angle and flair just before the ground. I learnt this when my PBY developed a dodgy motor. I look forward to the build.
Mark: Yup, that is the key. With an engine failure throttle back to maintain control. Just flew the twin this morning, flies great!! Video out in a bit. Tim
I did not cut the center wire going to the second ESC. I used only one battery. This installation was in a home design and built F22 with dual 40 mm electric jets. If flew great, with no thrust problems
Great video Tim! I've had a Goldberg Skylark 56 setting around that I've been wondering if I should build as a twin (instructions show how to do that with glow engines) but didn't know how to approach it with electric motors. I'll be really interested to see the next installment of this story.
Tyson: Easy! Three wires connect from the ESC to the motor (brushless motors have 3 wires for the signal, brushed motors just two wires). Manufactures do not coordinate on wire colors. As you connect the 3 wires from the ESC to the motor, the motors turns in a given direction. If the wrong direction simply reverse any two wires. Tim
Hey Tim. What is that cute twin motor model you have on the bench? Great video BTW. Is there one for differential control of 2 motors? Thank you. Later…
Hmm. I tried implementing your set up, but I'm having problems: One motor runs crazy fast, and the other motor barely ticks over. I've tried every iteration of components I could think of, but always get the same behavior. I want to default to your set up because it seems intuitively correct to me, but I can't get equal power on each engine. Both engines and both ESCs are identical make/models. Any advice?
@@TimMcKay56 thanks for the reply. I found a solution, although an awkward one, by simply using two receivers, two batteries, two ESCes, etc. I.e. two separate, and isolated, systems. The ESCes I’m using are cheapo junk, (Flitetest) so I’m not totally surprised they wouldn’t play nice with a dual setup. Thanks for the great video!
I don't understand why it's preferable to add extension wires on the motor side of the ESC rather than on the battery side. All the timing pulses, or whatever, occur on the motor side. On the battery side, it's pure DC with the capacitors on the ESC helping to hold the voltage steady, or helping to filter out any high frequency voltage variations. Seems to me it would be preferable to add extensions on the battery side. Before I became aware of these discussions, I added perhaps 18" of extension wire on the battery side of the ESC on a large delta-wing "flying sled" made from cheap insulating foam. I had no issues with the ESC/motor combination. It seemed to work fine. I'm not saying that your explanation is wrong or anything, I'm only saying I do not understand it.
ESC space and cooling requirements dictate if you extend 3 phase or DC supply wires. A good design. as in the EFlite Twin Otter has the ESCs crammed in the nacells. also, cheaper to make ESCs with all short wires.
for a project i am working on, it is required i use 8 motors, I am at the final stage of this project but i believe the left side of the wing is spinning faster than the right side, is there anyway to adjust this?
Great video, I was wondering, when you disconnect the batteries from the ESC is it the same sequence as when connecting them? Or does it matter? Thanks a lot...
@@TimMcKay56 Thanks Tim, I'm not sure what that means, but I understand there is no sequence for disconnecting the batteries... Thanks again. I think I'm actually starting to understand...
hi Tim I watched this video again today and found it helpful, just to ask, should both motors spin in the same direction, I've heard of twin motors spinning in a different direction, ? thanks from Tony from Bedfordshire
Tony: Motor rotation on our RC models makes zero difference in performance. Where this matters is with full scale twins with big motors; think a P-38. By having contra-rotating props an engine failure on takeoff (worse case as you are at full power) is a lot easier to handle. But no issue, really, with our models. Tim
@@TimMcKay56 I'm not so sure about that Tim! Having contra-rotating props on a twin means you have no need of sideways offset of the motors to counteract torque roll. A BIG bonus on light foamies! Having the props rotate inwards at the top is the standard way to minimize the effects of loss of 1 engine in real aircraft. But probably as you say the effect would be much less effective on these toys.
@@theoztreecrasher2647 Yes, with our smaller models and efficient electric motors (minimal torque), my guess is our twin models might fly quite well on just one motor. Tim
@@TimMcKay56 They don't actually. The asymmetric thrust is practically impossible to counteract with normal sized rudders. Lost a motor on an AtomRC Flying Fish - not a hope in Hades of controlling it on just 1 motor. Also "minimal torque" is far from the norm with powerful electric motors in very light foam frames. There are multiple videos up on UA-cam of hotrod wings corkscrewing into the air from a standing start before gaining enough airspeed for the elevons to be effective enough to keep it straight. 😉
Thank you very much for this informative video ! I am building a 2 motor R/C boat and was wondering how to wire everything correctly. Is there a difference for regular brushed motors as this is the type that came with my kit ? (Graupner Key Biscayne )
That is a great question, and I’m afraid I do not have the answer. ESC are so crucial for brushless operation, not sure how this applies for the older brushed motors. Apologies! Tim
Thanks Tim, is there anything I can do on the radio side to sync up the RPM's. I followed your directions and got both motors to sync up at any throttle level, but after taking my tachometer, one motor has slower RPM than the other. Any ideas what I can do to sync the RPM?
@@TimMcKay56 just figured it out. Motors have to have their own channel then mixed to work on throttle stick. Once that is done, you manipulate the servo balancer and increase the rpm to the motor that's lagging.
The x fly motor I ordered has all black wires to connect to the esc. There's no direction on how to hook them up. How do I figure out what wires to connect to each other? If you have any suggestions on where I can get the info id really appreciate it.
Not a problem at all. Simply connect all three wires to the motor. Keep the prop off for safety. Run the motor, see what direction it goes. If for whatever reason the motor runs backwards, just take ANY two wires and reverse them, the motor will run in correct direction. Tim
can someone please clarify: can i add an extension cord to the battery side of the EXC? Lets say i cant do that, would i damage some part permanently by doing so? Thank you and safe flying!
Billy: I do not have a technical answer, what I would do is match the gauge of the existing wire. If anyone else has a better response, please chime in! Tim
@@TimMcKay56 Thank you sir, I only need about a foot extension,Built a twin motor Cargo style and need to lengthen the wires to reach the space underthe wings..
I believe your "2 battery redundancy" which is your objective does not work if one battery dies, and it is the ESC/BATTERY PAIR with the good ESC / receiver wire. The other "good " battery will not run the Rx and servos due to the cut red or center ESC wire. An automatic switcher switch could save the plane in this case. I am nit sure how to build or buy one of these.
At 4:13 "Sophisticated analysis, dynamics, electrical load"... had me going there. A humorist as well as rc plane guru. Thanks for the great videos.
Glad you enjoyed it! Tim
I found this video really informative and straight forward on this topic. Thanks!
PW: Thanks for tuning in! Tim
The sense of humor on point 😂😂
Thanks! Tim
Mr McKay have you by chance had any free time for emails?
@@lorenzolamar5369 Sure 😊. gbmckay at gee mail dot com. Tim
@@lorenzolamar5369 Sure! Try gbmckay at gee mail dot com. Tim
I have 4 dualies, two I made, 2 were rtf. They are my favorite planes. All have counter rotating props so no right thrust angle has to be figured. All use a single battiery and have identical motors. Using two batteries and/or different motors could cause differential thrust as the batteries could discharge at different rates. I don't fly dualies because there is redundancy, but because they have such great flight characteristics, so stable and predictable, if not as acrobatic. I tried to connect 2 motors to 1 ESC; one motor was damaged. Maybe it was defective, as some people have had success, but I'll use 2 ESCs from now on. I know you like to build from scratch, but the LIDL gliders are great airframes for dual motors.
Mike: Great input, thanks! Tim
Yep Mike. For anyone interested in a really class twin LIDL build see the "Bavarian RC"example!
I appreciate your time and expertise on your videos. Thanks. I an watching your video now. On my E-Flight Twin Otter the props are CCW port side and CW starboard side with separate 20 Amp ESCs. I have replicated this exact setup and motors etc in my 1995 Graupner Partenavia. Going Lipo vs Nicad, and brushless vs original Speed 400 brushed ( can) motors has reduced wing loading of the bigger Partenavia by approx 30% .
Sounds like you are making good progress, best of luck! Tim
Hi Tim thanks for explaining about the twin motor setup for brushless motors , it helped me , as I have thought about upgrading a twin model I built of the BN islander , it has flown a circuit on 400 brushed motors , but was al bit under powered , your video is a nice guide , I've got two identical brushless motors that should work fine, giving plenty of power, thanks again Tim , most enjoyable , from Tony from Bedfordshire England ,
Tony: All good! Tim
Great Video Tim. I have several twins (Mosquito, PBY and BF110) and its a good idea to have counter rotating props. opposite handed props are quite easy to get hold of these days. Also if a motor fails on a twin unless you have huge rudder it won't counter the thrust difference. The best thing to do is throttle back point the nose down at a fairly steep glide angle and flair just before the ground. I learnt this when my PBY developed a dodgy motor. I look forward to the build.
Mark: Yup, that is the key. With an engine failure throttle back to maintain control. Just flew the twin this morning, flies great!! Video out in a bit. Tim
I've been waiting for a twin engine experiment . Thought it would have counter rotating props .
Counter rotating easy with brushless, just reverse wires on one motor. Tim
Counter rotating is better
I did not cut the center wire going to the second ESC. I used only one battery. This installation was in a home design and built F22 with dual 40 mm electric jets. If flew great, with no thrust problems
Thanks for this! Tim
Great video Tim! I've had a Goldberg Skylark 56 setting around that I've been wondering if I should build as a twin (instructions show how to do that with glow engines) but didn't know how to approach it with electric motors. I'll be really interested to see the next installment of this story.
Ed: Just waiting for the wind to calm down for a test flight. Tim
Very useful ideas 😊
👍🏻 Tim
Only thing you didn’t cover, and I was really hoping you would, is why the wires between the motor and esc(red and black) are switched?
Tyson: Easy! Three wires connect from the ESC to the motor (brushless motors have 3 wires for the signal, brushed motors just two wires). Manufactures do not coordinate on wire colors. As you connect the 3 wires from the ESC to the motor, the motors turns in a given direction. If the wrong direction simply reverse any two wires. Tim
The motor wire colors do not really matter. Just connect all three wires. If the motor turns the wrong direction simply reverse any two wires.
Hey Tim. What is that cute twin motor model you have on the bench? Great video BTW. Is there one for differential control of 2 motors? Thank you. Later…
Apologies, a mini RTF from many years ago, do not recall the name. Differential throttle control is a good idea, let me work on that!
Can I directly solder two esc wire like red-red black-black yellow-yellow
I think so. 😊 Tim
great video. i just bought a 4 motor c 130 and i want to re do the motors. do i use 2 ESC and wire 2 motors to each or do you recommenrd 4 ESCs
Ray: I think an ESC per motor is the correct approach. Good luck! Tim
😊
👍🏻 Tim
Hmm. I tried implementing your set up, but I'm having problems: One motor runs crazy fast, and the other motor barely ticks over. I've tried every iteration of components I could think of, but always get the same behavior. I want to default to your set up because it seems intuitively correct to me, but I can't get equal power on each engine. Both engines and both ESCs are identical make/models. Any advice?
So sorry . . . wish I could help. No good idea. Perhaps other viewers can assist. Tim
@@TimMcKay56 thanks for the reply. I found a solution, although an awkward one, by simply using two receivers, two batteries, two ESCes, etc. I.e. two separate, and isolated, systems. The ESCes I’m using are cheapo junk, (Flitetest) so I’m not totally surprised they wouldn’t play nice with a dual setup. Thanks for the great video!
@@123cp8 No worries, good luck! Tim
I don't understand why it's preferable to add extension wires on the motor side of the ESC rather than on the battery side. All the timing pulses, or whatever, occur on the motor side. On the battery side, it's pure DC with the capacitors on the ESC helping to hold the voltage steady, or helping to filter out any high frequency voltage variations. Seems to me it would be preferable to add extensions on the battery side.
Before I became aware of these discussions, I added perhaps 18" of extension wire on the battery side of the ESC on a large delta-wing "flying sled" made from cheap insulating foam. I had no issues with the ESC/motor combination. It seemed to work fine. I'm not saying that your explanation is wrong or anything, I'm only saying I do not understand it.
👍🏻 Tim
ESC space and cooling requirements dictate if you extend 3 phase or DC supply wires. A good design. as in the EFlite Twin Otter has the ESCs crammed in the nacells. also, cheaper to make ESCs with all short wires.
@@reasonitout9087 All good! Tim
for a project i am working on, it is required i use 8 motors, I am at the final stage of this project but i believe the left side of the wing is spinning faster than the right side, is there anyway to adjust this?
NT: I am not sure with 8 motors. Do ask this on www.RCGroups.com Tim
I always wondered what manages the correct rpms between both motors. Is it all done by sizing the motors and batteries correctly?
Steve: Pretty much, this will work. Tim
Great video, I was wondering, when you disconnect the batteries from the ESC is it the same sequence as when connecting them? Or does it matter?
Thanks a lot...
Jim: Does not matter when disconnecting, as the ESC does not need to "see" the proper signal. Tim
@@TimMcKay56 Thanks Tim, I'm not sure what that means, but I understand there is no sequence for disconnecting the batteries... Thanks again. I think I'm actually starting to understand...
hi Tim I watched this video again today and found it helpful, just to ask, should both motors spin in the same direction, I've heard of twin motors spinning in a different direction, ? thanks from Tony from Bedfordshire
Tony: Motor rotation on our RC models makes zero difference in performance. Where this matters is with full scale twins with big motors; think a P-38. By having contra-rotating props an engine failure on takeoff (worse case as you are at full power) is a lot easier to handle. But no issue, really, with our models. Tim
@@TimMcKay56 I'm not so sure about that Tim! Having contra-rotating props on a twin means you have no need of sideways offset of the motors to counteract torque roll. A BIG bonus on light foamies! Having the props rotate inwards at the top is the standard way to minimize the effects of loss of 1 engine in real aircraft. But probably as you say the effect would be much less effective on these toys.
@@theoztreecrasher2647 Yes, with our smaller models and efficient electric motors (minimal torque), my guess is our twin models might fly quite well on just one motor. Tim
@@TimMcKay56 They don't actually. The asymmetric thrust is practically impossible to counteract with normal sized rudders. Lost a motor on an AtomRC Flying Fish - not a hope in Hades of controlling it on just 1 motor. Also "minimal torque" is far from the norm with powerful electric motors in very light foam frames. There are multiple videos up on UA-cam of hotrod wings corkscrewing into the air from a standing start before gaining enough airspeed for the elevons to be effective enough to keep it straight. 😉
@@theoztreecrasher2647 Thanks for this update! Tim
Thank you very much for this informative video ! I am building a 2 motor R/C boat and was wondering how to wire everything correctly. Is there a difference for regular brushed motors as this is the type that came with my kit ? (Graupner Key Biscayne )
That is a great question, and I’m afraid I do not have the answer. ESC are so crucial for brushless operation, not sure how this applies for the older brushed motors. Apologies! Tim
Can I hook up 2 motors to one esc and battery and then do the same for a second set of motors to an esc to the same battery?
I am pretty sure that each brushless motor needs to “see” its own ESC to get the correct signals to properly work. Tim
Thanks Tim, is there anything I can do on the radio side to sync up the RPM's. I followed your directions and got both motors to sync up at any throttle level, but after taking my tachometer, one motor has slower RPM than the other. Any ideas what I can do to sync the RPM?
Rudy: Great question! No clue here, can anyone assist?? Tim
@@TimMcKay56 just figured it out. Motors have to have their own channel then mixed to work on throttle stick. Once that is done, you manipulate the servo balancer and increase the rpm to the motor that's lagging.
@@LOSCABOSLIFE Perfect, thanks!! Tim
The x fly motor I ordered has all black wires to connect to the esc. There's no direction on how to hook them up. How do I figure out what wires to connect to each other? If you have any suggestions on where I can get the info id really appreciate it.
Not a problem at all. Simply connect all three wires to the motor. Keep the prop off for safety. Run the motor, see what direction it goes. If for whatever reason the motor runs backwards, just take ANY two wires and reverse them, the motor will run in correct direction. Tim
@@TimMcKay56 Will do 👍. Thank you very much .
can someone please clarify: can i add an extension cord to the battery side of the EXC? Lets say i cant do that, would i damage some part permanently by doing so? Thank you and safe flying!
See my video “How to Extend ESC Wires Correctly”.
@@TimMcKay56 ok thanks
Can you help me I trying to setup rc helicopter tail motor with 2 esc 2 motors and one rx
Apologies, no experience with this. Tim
Mr McKay,, I need to lengthen the wire on my motor to the ESC,, what gauge wire can I use?
Billy: I do not have a technical answer, what I would do is match the gauge of the existing wire. If anyone else has a better response, please chime in! Tim
@@TimMcKay56 Thank you sir, I only need about a foot extension,Built a twin motor Cargo style and need to lengthen the wires to reach the space underthe wings..
@@billyrebcollins9615 Good luck! Tim
I believe your "2 battery redundancy" which is your objective does not work if one battery dies, and it is the ESC/BATTERY PAIR with the good ESC / receiver wire. The other "good " battery will not run the Rx and servos due to the cut red or center ESC wire. An automatic switcher switch could save the plane in this case. I am nit sure how to build or buy one of these.
Good point, I need to check this out. Tim