One of my first jobs in mental health was working in a residential treatment facility for teenagers. Whenever SVU came on, they would all, girls’ and boys’ floors alike, disappear into their rooms to watch it. I asked a more senior staff one day why that was. She said, “Well, think about it. It creates a fantasy for them, in which the cops are the good guys, the victim is always rescued, and the person that was hurting them is brought to justice. Most of these kids never have and never will see that.”
It's true I grew up a victim 9f abuse and was abandoned at the age of 9 when my mom passed and my step-dad dropped me off at a residential facility From 9 till I was 15 I was in long term residential treatment I wish I got my justice I'm 25 now and attending school to work with kids and teens so I can give the help that I didn't have If I can change just one life then I'm happy
Yeah, a lot of abusers are never held to account because the victim often knows their abuser and fears repercussions from reporting them. I experienced this first hand when I was assaulted. Not only was my claim less likely to be believed it would have put me and my siblings into foster care because my babysitter was taking care of us while my mom was on deployment. so I did like SVU because it gave me a false feeling of comfort but now looking back on it. I really don't like how over the top the show is, those interrogation scenes don't age well.
Ok, an innocence project version of Law and Order would actually be genius. Imagine bringing back like 20 of the actors for characters who were convicted who have aged because canonically they’ve been in jail for years since their conviction, and then showing that the cops got it wrong in that case. Tell me you wouldn’t watch that.
@@DeepakPal-tg7hy There are corrupt cop shows, but how many of them can you think of where those cops aren't the main characters? The Wire would be one of the rare ones. Something like a hypothetic Innocent Project version of L&O wouldn't make the cops the protagonists. You'd see it from the perspective of that group.
i kinda like this idea. i wanna see the main series cast confront their mistakes and watch them cope w the guilt they carry. that would actually be pretty interesting
I’d definitely watch it. But that specific show would never be made. They might make one with other cases, but not with cases from Law & Order or any of its spin offs. That show has too much power in Hollywood & they’d push against it.
I watched so much SVU in high school because I wanted to believe in a world where the rape and sexual abuse my friends were dealing with from predators in and out of school was taken seriously. It was cathartic. And a woman like Det. Benson refusing to apologize for defending victims paired up with a tough guy with a strong sense for women and children was super compelling. It helped that they always treated each other as equals, challenged each other, supported each other, respected boundaries, etc. It even showed all the gross ways victims get screwed out of justice, but in real life it’s even worse. In real life, almost none of my friends got justice, but it felt good to pretend that they would.
As a teen who was being abused by a groomer I also watched this show and daydreamed about justice for me and my friends. We never got it but to its credit, SVU really got me through.
The truth is most males are programmed to want to protect women. Even the police, It's just a select group of sickos who are not wired that way. But sex crimes are usually difficult to prove. And we cannot convict people in a just system based solely upon an alleged victim's word. It sucks, but that's just the way it is. People lie about it all the time..
Guess that's why the world is such a mess. The show depicted an out of control and violent psychopath who would routinely assault people and break the law. You have zero basis to criticize criminals if you support ones with badges.
Considering they also enforce the stupid pistol magazine restrictions among other absurd requirements, yeah They also have their standard issue pistols having weird standards too, but hey, sucks to suck
You just KNOW the guy who came up with that one had it in the back of his mind for years, just waiting and praying for a situation where he could unleash it upon the world.
Did you hear about the trapeze artist who was killed by a circus clown? The clown stabbed him with a banana and he died of bananaphalactic shock. This joke, or some iteration of it must have existed for at least 100 years, or a few minutes.
Every time "bad apples" are mentioned, it staggers me how police hypemen forget the rest of that saying. "A few bad apples _spoil the barrel."_ In other words, if you have a bunch of good apples and a couple of bad ones, pretty quickly it turns into _all bad apples._
if every institution is ruined by 'a few bad apples' then say goodbye to literally every institution on earth that has ever or will ever exist. Some pastors rape children? Do away with the church. Some daycare workers abuse/rape children? Do away with daycare. Some care personal abuse elderly / disabled people? Do away with all care. Some people abuse the various support programs that exist to help out struggling people? Do away with that too. What kind of nonsense argument is that? There is no perfection in this world and there never will be. But go around and demonize everything because of a few bad people and see where that gets you. Fact is, most police do their work properly. Prosecution is also not part of the police, that's a different department. You can all ask your democrat vice president how high ranking prosecutors put innocent people in jail over bullshit. She made a career out of it.
@@Mauldoon5 have you never seen a teenager who starts hanging out with other teenagers who make bad decisions, and they start also making bad decisions? How about worked somewhere where a bunch of people slack off all the time, and new hire start out strong then fall into also slacking off? Humans naturally adapt to the group - used to be a means of survival, now it's just innate. So yes, if a few cops get away with criminal treatment of suspects and civilians, then those who are working with them are much more likely to first just let their actions slide, and eventually end up participating in it as well. It happens in all settings if unchecked.
You KNOW that one had been brewing in the back of the writer's mind for years, waiting and praying for a highly improbable situation where its magnificence could be unleashed upon the world in all its puntastic glory.
That's a really great lesson for everyone to learn though. I haven't ever actually watched it myself, but I've learned that and a ton more from all kinds of different fictional and true crime media.
This is the best advice. Don't talk to the police, not even about what you had for breakfast. You never know what their goal is. If you say you had eggs for breakfast but a witness they never told you about said you had pancakes, you are suddenly guilty of lying to the police, and this is a crime, you CAN be arrested and convicted for this alone and go to jail. It does not matter what the truth is, it only matters what you can prove in court and no... society has moved to the guilty until proven innocent standard so a lot of innocent people go to jail.
I remember once watching SVU with my very L&O fanatic parents, and saw a case very similar to my own get solved with justice. My parents empathized with the girl and she got closure. The same parents who blamed me for my own case that never got anywhere with reporting. L&O is fun, but it's a lie.
No it is not a lie, it is fiction. At the start they specifically point that out! They don't claim that anything about this show is real, they just provide entertainment.
Whoever wrote "bananaphylactic shock" has just hit their comedic peak. I'm sorry, in a career defined by comedic reporting of the news, you're not gonna get a better off-the-wall pun in without it feeling completely forced.
I like how the main defence for anything cop related is 'one or two bad apples', when the original saying is literally that one bad apple spoils the barrel.
@@destroyerblackdragon The idea is that you SHOULD throw away the bad apple ASAP. If you have a rotten apple in your barrel, the rot spreads to other apples extremely quickly if you ignore it. Throwing away the bad apples in a police context would mean holding cops who abuse their power accountable and not covering it up, and because they haven't done that, that corruption has spread across the police force.
As a SA survivor, I can fully attest how cathartic Law & Order SVU has been to watch. To see the fantasy of people like me getting justice from people who genuinely cared. But even as I watched it as a scared 15 year old, I knew it was all a fantasy. That cops and the system of getting said justice is a difficult climb that I'll never get on because I know the odds are against me. As much as I love SVU, I want an Innocence Project type show, where victims, both convicted in jail and silenced to never have a case, can get real justice. And people should know that the police really is against you as an SA survivor.
What I find a bit scary is that apparently L&O is still attractive to somebody who knows that it's all lies. Even worse: it's a lie that feeds on itself - there are cops who get their ideas of how to do their job exactly from that show, so except that apparently they leave out the "actually listen to the victims/survivors" bits and focus on the fun manly bits like shooting, beating and maybe 'pushing' somebody to making a confession.
Sadly SANE's, in reality, seem to exist to pacify victims of sexual assault. Going through one of these exams is humiliating but when you learn that most of the kits sit in some evidence locker among the nations backlogs it becomes degrading and demoralizing to say the least.
I am so sorry you went through a sistema that doesn't work. I am glad that you are here. Thank you for sharing your take on this, it is you voice and others like yours that need to be heard. We have to be smart about the power that media has, but not only that. Systems need to work, full stop. Something can be done, something must be done. I hope you're okay, and had a good day!
I was sexually abused up until the age of 4 by my biological father. There are multiple videos of me, a tiny toddler, describing in graphic detail what happened. Therapy at age five, years of symptoms of PTSD, and an official diagnosis of C-PTSD (PTSD caused by repeated trauma), and years of therapy as an adult. Thirteen years later, he still has never been held accountable. The case had to be reopened when I was 17, and while the cps officer I worked with was very kind, she simply couldn't do anything about it. The system is so fundamentally flawed that despite irrefutable evidence, the DA won't even take the case. He's allowed to be with kids, he's married, he lives in the same house he always has with a family that loves him and knows nothing. He worked with kids at a bookstore. I don't want to think about how many others have been hurt since then. Of course he's a monster and he forever will be, but I'm almost more angry at the system that allowed him to get away with it. The bad guy is bad, thats their whole shtick, it's just scary realizing that a lot of the good guys aren't good I will never and should never forgive him, but that automatic response of "he needs to die" is too good for these people. They can die a martyr, innocent and killed for no reason. They deserve to live in a world that knows what they are, be repulsed and shunned, they deserve to suffer like their victims suffered, death is too kind
You are amazing for telling your story even though law enforcement and the judicial system has totally failed you. The system fails regularly but it has also failed in trying to shut you up. Keep talking. There are countless others who will be empowered and inspired by you. PTSD and c-PTSD are the result of soul damage. Your dud is a POS forever. You are a winner 🏆 🥇 forever.
Firstly - I am so sorry. Secondly - your way with words and ability to articulate a horrific and complicated story is just ☆☆☆☆☆ Thirdly- thank you. There's more people out here who understand you. Thank you for sharing this ..... i don't even have the words. Hope you are well 🙏
For sure our system is still flawed. Weak laws are not the fault of police it’s the fault of soft on crime political agenda. It needs to change. Your story is horrendous. I’m so sorry. I wish you peace, comfort and security. There is no excuse for such weakness in our judicial system.
They did do one episode called “Justice Denied” where Olivia realized that she forced a false confession from someone, but it seems like a largely untouched topic outside of that instance.
Let me guess. It was a mistake, she felt bad for a couple minutes, and got the situation remedied/reversed or if it didn't get remedied/reversed, Olivia still felt bad about it and therefore it's okay. Am I warm on how the show handled that?
@@howlandcrowe9807 pretty much, Benson nabbed the real rapist and the guy she forced a confession out of was freed with an apology. No consequences for Benson (to be fair, when she realized she was wrong, she busted her ass to get the guy out) other than the victims chewing her out, no restitution for the 8 years stolen from the falsely accused outside of an "apology" from the judge.
"Ladies and gentlemen the story you are about to see is bullshit the names have been changed to protect the LAPD because they helped to save a bunch of money on props"...instant classic
Another problem with L&O is that the bad guys are just that - bad guys. They aren't "people" who are considered innocent until proven guilty. They're bad guys who need to be stopped at all costs. This is how police see suspects when they learn their tactics from this show. Also why so many cops immediately become hostile when you know your rights. They think you must know a lot about your rights BECAUSE you expected an encounter with the police, and thus they believe you've obviously committed a crime.
That’s what makes SVU so reasonable for its audience. Even in prison, if your rap sheet includes sex crimes or crimes against children, you’re in a world of hurt. Amongst the prison population, everything can be justified except for rape. No one, unequivocally no one, cares about the person behind the charges in SVU and that’s we’ve all collectively agreed on that regardless of the merit.
Remember the series mostly dealt with murders, rape, and now organized crime. All field where the suspect is believed to have done some heinous crimes. Probably be a different show if they dealt with shoplifters. The original L&O run at least had the occasional defendant with an understandable axe to grind.
@@SEAZNDragon SVU has also done several episodes about falsely accused and occasionally falsely convicted. Not to mention the ones about misconduct and brutality.
So John is mad that L&O is better then real life seems he's mad the wrong thing this is the biggest eye roll facepalm that a talking head has ever given and it's hilarious
When my mom saw this, she commented on how we basically expect untrained civilians to be responsible for deescalating encounters with the police instead of expecting our highly-trained, taxpayer-funded police force to be able to deescalate situations.
yeah, it'd be like entering the hospital as a patient and doing/organizing all your own tests and treatments. that's what the 'professionals' are supposed to do.
can someone tell why the US is willing to put up with such poorly trained police officers? can't think of any developed country putting in this little effort, not even close. several years training, standardised exams seems the norm. what is it with the US? still living in the 18th/19th century?
@@embreis2257 I can guess that it has to do with cost. More training and weeding out bad cops will cost more (not that cops are cheap now). The American way is to go cheap and crappy for public services.
Back in 2011 I was raped. Initially I didn't want to press charges, I just wanted to go to the hospital. I was turned away at 2 emergency rooms because they weren't equipped to do a rape kit. Despite me telling them I didn't want one, I just wanted the bleeding to stop. So I eventually felt pressured into calling the cops just to get any support. 2 male officers came in to interview me, mocked me, refused to take evidence, and told me that I wouldn't be able to afford a lawyer because the person who raped me was probably richer than I was. (That's not how that works) I did end up getting a rape kit which has either been tossed or is in the backlog, I don't have it in me to ask. My treatment at the hands of the cops and hospitals was honestly more traumatizing than the assault itself.
how terrible!! It is criminal that they wouldn’t treat you for your injuries. I am so sorry that the police officers just made it worse and didnt seem to know how criminal law works. I am glad you shared your experience. I am hoping that it can add to the collective voice that we need to change things.
Humans truly excel at harming one another. That's pretty much the limit of their abilities if you consider an "eagle's eye" perspective. Sure, entertainment and news often prefer to portray the "good" sides of human interaction, but that's just the fringe. 90% is geared toward abuse, trolling, lack of empathy, an absence of ethics, and the complete abandonment of justice. Simply consider Chump '45 and his past 30+ years of activities, and it will tell you everything you need to know. 🙄 Ultimately, the only "justice" is KILLING KILLERS. Or dismembering r@p1$t$. And decapitating those who commit grand larceny.
I'm so sorry this was your experience. I can't imagine a worse time in life for anyone. Just know that this terrible trauma has not defeated you because you did seek help and you are able to talk about it even in forums like this. Many are unable to discuss their assaults or any subsequent mistreatment because of their shame or fear of rebuttal etc... You are among the strongest of us Morgana Harp. Never let these demons win. Keep telling your story so that others might feel strong enough to tell theirs. Dont be afraid to acknowledge the damage caused by this. Seek help if you feel your grasp on life slipping. Please seek wellness and strength. Cheers! 💗💕💗
Both my parents were cops and they hated the Law in Order franchise. My dad had a particular loathing for Stabler's violent interrogation techniques. A man will say anything under torture AND suspects will lawyer up and not say anything if you get hostile like that. Also, it wasn't until years after I stopped watching SVU that I realized how the show really vilified Internal Affairs when (in theory) I.A. is suppose to police the police and hold them accountable.
Yeah, I always hate when a detective is an ahole to a suspect or witness and then for some reason the showrunners depict the suspect/witnesses as still being cooperative, or the detective roughs up the suspect and then he starts spilling all the deets, like in what world? You gotta make people want to talk. And this isn't just in L&O type shows. I see it in a lot of European dramas too. If I'm ever a witness or a suspect or a victim, I want an Inspector Barnaby type detective and not that jerk that got assigned my case the one time I was a burglary victim.
Point taken, but there is one thing that seems consistent: in almost every episode where there is a scene in the interrogation room, as soon as the person being interrogated says, "I want a lawyer," the interrogation stops. And there is at least one such scene in almost every episode.
I loved watching Law and Order growing up, especially SVU, so a few years ago I decided to do a rewatch starting from the first season. I was absolutely shocked seeing how angry and violent Stabler was on a regular basis. I don't think I realized before since A) I was a kid and B) I was watching it in a more interrupted (weekly) fashion, but that dude has angry, scary outbursts almost every episode. It got to the point that it really started to bother me and I wondered why Olivia would put up with it.
@@michaelrunco5940 Beating up defendants is terrible for the case. It's about the marathon, not the sprint. But sometimes these shows depict what cops want to do to dirt bags. Cops don't do that shit.
Imagine saying: "I'm a lifeguard. I've learned most of what I know watching Baywatch." Or "I'm a surgeon. I was trained by watching Grey's anatomy and the Good doctor on netflix." Hard pass, right? Somehow that's OK for law enforcement? How?🤨
Or imagine learning how to survive when you're naked and afraid because you watched naked and afraid. You're real concern should be why you're naked in the first place
One of my favourite crime shows in Germany for years was "Unter Verdacht", which translates to "Under Suspicion". The premise was that an older, female investigator was transferred to the department for internal affairs of the Munich police - and the show made it a point that she mostly got the position because her higher-ups considered her half-retired and figured she wouldn't actually do much. The only assistant she got was seen as too incompetent for any other department, further strengthening the point that they didn't want her to succeed in her investigations against other officers. Additionally, her boss was often shown as fundamentally corrupt and trying to hinder her in any way possible due to his own political ambitions. While Eva Maria Prohacek, the main character, was portrayed as empathetic towards the victims, hard-working and just, the show was going for realism, which meant that the episodes would sometimes have her lose - she'd crack the case, but the officers would get away with light punishment or there would even be a cover-up. They also did a pretty fantastic episode on brutality against African refugees in the Mediterranean by Frontex officers, basically the European border department that is charged with pushing people off their boats. Bold, uncomfortable, top-tier German television and rightfully won a couple domestic awards. Fun fact: Christoph Waltz was on one of the episodes before his breakthrough in Hollywood.
@@LeAnwar1 I'd immediately say yes, because it shows the ugly side of police work, but it really depends on which Tatort we're talking here. There are excellent teams (Stuttgart, Dortmund, Wiesbaden come to mind) and stellar single-installments from different teams, but there have been over 1000 films in over 50 years with different teams and in different cities, while Unter Verdacht had a single team for 30 films and 18 years. Bit of an unfair comparison lol
So a show that just pandered to self-loathing left wingers who hate the institutions they don't control and hold "Refugees Welcome" signs? And big surprise it won lots of awards.
Just a side note: Ice-T happens to have a metal band that, in spite of his affiliation with Law and Order, is heavily critical of the police, the government perpetuating racism, and (through lyrics that he himself describes as ultra-violence) the use of force by those in power. I can't seem to find the interview, but at one point he mentioned that he enjoyed Law and Order because it portrayed the kind of cops he wished we had.
Addition to your side note, he's always been critical, as well as the contemporaries he came up with musically. I think out of all of the musicians and rappers from the time period he came up with though he remains the most vocally critical
@Peter Hine Yeah, that's an important difference. I've had friends who loved medical dramas growing up and then attended med school. ER may have been their favorite show as children, but I would be seriously worried if any of them told me it's how they gained most of their medical knowledge.
I was talking to a friend and he said, "when they say 'a few bad apples' about the cops, (as Dick Wolf did there) they never finish the idiom 'spoil the whole bunch'." He was so right. Policing is broken. Period.
That idiom doesn't ever get finished to such a degree that I, a non-native speaker of English, had no idea it was a whole saying. Thanks for enlightening me.
@@beth12svist English is like that. We have some idioms that have been used for so long, that they're meaning is forgotten or misunderstood. We also have a lot of racist or otherwise problematic ones that need to be retired!
The argument is fundamentally flawed for too many reasons to count in the first place, first and foremost being that the argument is, only a few cops are bad, thereby, the system that allows them to have no accountability should go unchanged.
“Blood is thicker than water” is actually “the blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb”, which is pretty much the literal opposite meaning as it means the bonds and promises you make with people are more important than your relatives. The only reason I feel it isn’t a full opposite is simply because you can still make bonds and promises with your relatives after all
Me and my criminal law class in college had the same discussion after a professor brought up how annoying shows like CSI and law & order were in regards to actual criminal justice. Our professor was a defense lawyer for Guantanamo Bay detainees, Buzz was one of the best teachers ive ever had.
The CSI is also unrealistic in how forensic investigation is done. Enhancing photographs, etc., isn't something that is done that easily (if at all) in real life, something that juries expect.
@@christopherheckman7957 and don't forget NCIS with that seriously flawed two hackers on 1 keyboard scene. You could open a new command window and assign it to a different keyboard and that would get the two hackers one machine, but THAT was not the way to do it or helpful to a popping windows attack. I mean, just kill X-window and go text based and it's all good.....
And this is why the last season of Brooklyn 99 was so important and powerful. While other seasons had several episodes focused on corruption in the police, their last one had it as the main attraction throughout, and ending on what police reform could potentially do... while showing every challenge to it along the way
NYPD SVU did literally NOTHING to help my case in 2019-2020. I was locked in my co-workers room and physically fought him to avoid being raped. He threw me into a TV and kicked me in the ribs about six times. He ripped off my clothes. And the NYPD hauled my ass to the station in front of my students. I gave another statement, about five or so in total. And the buck stopped at the SVU. The detective did jack shit to go after this man, question other teachers and staff, go to the dude's apartment, or anything. He just threw out my case and closed it within days. NYPD sucks! If you are not at least middle class and white, they will not help you, if not hurt you.
I am so sorry you had to go through such trauma. It's especially hard being led down by the people we expect to serve and protect us. I hope you are doing better Courtney. God bless
I’m so sorry. Good for you for fighting back, and good for you for even getting to the police. I was able to fight off my attacker when I was 15, I wasn’t so lucky when I was 20, but I didn’t report either incident. I was too afraid of my story being the same as yours. But hey, at least now I know there’s pride to be found in speaking up.
Hi Courtney, I am so sorry this happened. I am also a survivor of sexual assault, I reported to the NYPD SVD in 2017, and was treated terribly. I filed a lawsuit against them in 2019. Last year I founded the NYPD Survivor Working Group. We're a group of survivors who were sexually assaulted, reported to the NYPD, were failed horrifically, and experienced institutional betrayal. You're not alone in this and if you'd like to join other survivors and hold the NYPD accountable for the systemic harm they repeatedly cause feel free to reach out. - Alison
I was so upset when they announced they were no longer moving forward with the previously revealed "Law & Order: For the Defense". Would've been so nice to finally see the other perspective in the world's biggest crime show brand.
@@alexk0805 Yea Better Call Saul isn't a bad example but the problem is that show focuses more on Jimmy and not enough on his defense cases outside of the main plot. Plus he does some criminal stuff so the message "defense lawyers aren't bad" would kinda get lost there lol
"If medical professionals were routinely claiming..." Time to do that show, Last Week team, cause these things happen. *A lot*. My wife recently completed clinicals at a major Phx area hospital, & well over half the staff she worked around were conspiracy nuts who said things you'd never expect from a highly trained & experienced healthcare professional. It's terrifying.
You might be surprised at how working with these kind of people makes you like them. Also, they are jaded as hell. It makes it easier for some to sleep thinking its a conspiracy than the real truth of how ugly our society really has become. The real truth kinda of overloads alot of people's brains.
@@wesleyhobbs2332 HAS become? We were always terrible, terrible people. We just have the ability to share that information now and humans are not set up for information
My wife works at the hospital. They had to delay and then tone down their COVID vaccine standard to allow very generous “religious exemptions” because they were going to lose too many nurses to maintain minimal health care for the city. The damn NURSES who were responding say in an day out to dozens of code blue’s (resuscitation attempts) for people dying every day at the peak of the pandemic. (Only the doctors were mostly immune to the vaccine conspiracy stuff.)
They’re not that highly trained, tho. Aside from RNs and MDs, there is a dubious amount of training that is now required for nurses and PAs to be hired. But on a side note, of the physicians in the phx metro area that I do know personally, they’ll never tell you that vaccines don’t work, but you might hear the totally reasonable opinion that, because there isn’t enough in situ and ex situ data, it’s hard to know if the vaccines had a valuable cost-benefit ratio. The complexity of clinical and research medicine should never be left to the discernment of laymen. That includes under qualified providers.
I've watched Law and Order SVU since I was little and as I grew up I appreciated Olivia Benson SO much. What she represented, even if a fantasy, was a bit of light in a very depressive subject. We all want to believe in that SVU department even if in real life, your crime would never be solved
John is right. Sex crimes are often downplayed or just plain ignored. I know, because it happened to me. I was seven years old. My parents were getting a divorce. My mother had me all week until the weekend. That was when I went with my father. One day, I came home with bite marks on my upper thighs, very close to “those parts”. My mother asked what had happened. I told her the truth. My mother’s first husband bit me. (I am adopted. At the time he was legally my father, but only legally.) She tried to control herself, because she didn’t want me to think that I did bad. She sent me to play and called her lawyer, Evelyn. Evelyn told my mother that she should take pictures of the bruises. My mother took the pictures. My mother later told me how disgusted she was having to take pictures of a little girl’s groin area. She gave the pictures to her lawyer. Evelyn brought them with her to the special hearing. She gave the pictures to the judge. He looked at them. He asked my mother’s first husband about the bruises. My mother’s first husband said, “We were play fighting. I got carried away.” The judge accepted it. The truth was that it was the aftermath of just one of the times my mother’s first husband had raped me. It started when I was four. It ended when I was eight. My mother knew something was wrong. She didn’t know the full extent. She didn’t even know the small extent. But she knew something was wrong. She and Evelyn fought the court about his ability to have custody of me on the weekends. The judge would not relent. He told my mum that if I didn’t go with her first husband, she would be in contempt and put in jail. I am sorry to speak about this or to bring up bad memories for anyone. I just commented, because I know our system is flawed. For 50 good people in our justice system and our police system, there’s one bad person. And they can screw everything up.
@@nicoleb695 thank you for your kind words. My life is pretty darn good. I am healthy. I have a fantastic job. And I dedicate time and money to many charities and projects who help victims of sex crimes. I am proud to help anyone I can. I’ve come a long way from that little girl with bite marks on her legs. I want to help others to come a long way, too.
There's nothing to apologize for. You made it obvious what you were going to talk about at the start. Anyone who doesn't want to read it, can stop at the beginning. If anything your comment will be helpful to others. As humans there's great power in knowing someone else has been through something similar to whatever we have.
Telling you that I'm sorry this happened feels pretty feeble at the moment. Like reading survivor comments in the 'Monarchy' episode of John's show, I've found unexpected horror. Wishing karma on 'that man' doesn't seem effective, either, but I'm doing it heartily. Mostly, tho, I'm sending you thanks for posting your experience and gratitude for your survival. To paraphrase Faulkner, you have not merely endured, but have prevailed. Paz y luz.
"Law and Order: Oopsie!" would be a great show... covering all the cases where police and the rest of the system ruined people's lives for no good reason.
The Greys Anatomy comparison is really good, as it highlights a blindspot many people have towards media. Sure, a lot of things can be excused/explained/ignored because "it's a show for entertainment" but there is a line between making Doctors more attractive for the small screen and instilling blind trust in a broken system. Also pointing out flaws and dangers to society in shows is not the same as "hating on it".
There is this guy on UA-cam who is a firefighter. He does these skits where he uses green screens to add himself to Tv-shows. Like Lone Star and 911. Pointing out the ridiculousness of their behaviour. It is hilarious but it also makes me unwilling to watch those ridiculous shows.
I'm really glad that Grey's Anatomy is not an accurate representation of hospitals, I'm just imagining a hospital where the doctors are constantly hooking up and blabbering about finding their soulmate while people around them die unattended
That’s a good point. It’s what literature was before TV. Social commentary and criticism is not only necessary, it’s good. Lately, though, the political climate screams for censorship. See John Steinbeck’s The Grapes of Wrath. Still an important piece of social commentary and still very much (maybe more) relevant today than it was in 1939. The more things change, as they say.
Not to mention, people would be significantly more concerned if it was common for doctors to claim all their training came from Grey's Anatomy like cops do about Law and Order
Scrubs, a comedy, did a pretty good job at reflecting the realities of the US Medical system, so its definitely possible for a show to be both entertainment, and at least present a somewhat realistic version of the job. But then again, it seems like comedic shows often outdo their counterparts that take themselves serious, e.g. John Oliver who "is just a comedian" vs Tucker Carlson, one of the most watched "news" segments.
I remember when I was 15 and had just gone through the most traumatic event of my life that left me in a temporary catatonic state. I was in New Mexico (never been before) in a town, all alone and terrified. The cops there picked me up and took me to their station, and one of them proceeded to verbally abuse me, calling me a bitch and saying "what's wrong with you you crazy bitch, you can't do anything," due to my catatonic state. Then they made me watch Keeping up with the Kardashians in an interrogation room for hours, lmao. Cops, just like humanity in general, are often terrible and abusive and power doesn't usually bring out the kindness in people
John, you forgot to mention how the show also villainizes Internal affairs officers, especially when (Un)Stabler definitely broke the law. That's why that show "Happy!" was perfect for Meloni since he was basically how you would've expected Stabler to turn out after being fired.
Oh god that brought back some dormant memories in me. I forgot about that show lmao. I definitely only started watching it for Meloni and it was a fun romp
If all the medical shows showed how often insurance is discussed, our health system would change. Thats the power these shows have, which is why they also have an ethical obligation to not white wash reality.
That's another reason I love Scrubs -- there are multiple occasions when they raise this problem, enough for me -- not a US citizen -- to understand the scale of it. When I dug deeper into it I was like "Yep, that's f-ed up"
I’d love to see it portrayed how many treatments are available, and so much more beneficial/successful, that can’t be offered to patients because insurance won’t cover them. When I had spinal fusion the surgeon could have used a new (at the time) device that would have restored mobility and allowed a much better prognosis for pain relief and physical recovery. No difference in the cost of the surgery, surgical center, medication, etc. - just the device. Insurance company wouldn’t even door a peer review. And this was a recognized, FDA approved device not some research situation.
I stopped watching it before it got to this plot point, but didn't Meredith have to do community service bc she committed insurance fraud to help a patient? @@MrNikVadik Also, Teddy married a guy because he needed insurance.
@@beautifullEternalI think New Amsterdam is cheesy as hell, but I appreciate watching it solely because they try to address the social/financial/insurance causes of problems in heathcare. Problem is they usually find solutions too easily, that aren't available in real life - unless we start demanding change
John should do a critique of The Closer (2005 - 2012) and Major Crimes (2012 - 2018). While I enjoyed these 2 series immensely, I did learn two important lessons: 1) Never speak with the police, 2) Always request a lawyer.
"Every decision, every arrest is scrutinized." Yes, and they should be. Every Single One. There needs to be an office that is staffed with professional law enforcement AND educated citizens just to check if there is any questionable aspect to the investigation and interrogation.
I didn’t report specifically because I knew it would re-traumatize me. You can only hear things like “what were you wearing/had you been drinking/why were you alone” so many times without that self-doubt creeping in. You can do everything “right” and still be harmed, both in regards to the actual assault and in regards to how the police treat you. I’ve always loved L&O and SVU but it truly doesn’t reflect reality :/
@@sakurablossoms94 Yeah, it’s like needing a surgeon but the only person around to help is a first-year med student. They want to help but they legitimately don’t know what they’re doing.
I was on a grand jury, and quickly learned the District Attorney office hated Law and Order because, L&O apparently had an endless budget, and the DA did not
@@UdoShan Don't think of it that way! The DA budgets are fine. How do I know? Put it this way: Public defenders handle an insanely high percentage of criminal cases. They're the backbone of the system. Now go look at what PD offices get compared to DA offices. Look at how many minutes, on average, a New Orleans PD spends with his or her client.
I'm an autistic, disabled, trans guy who was playing a phone game in public park during covid and off duty NPYD beat my face in and broke my nose. Responding NCPD kept threatening me at the scene if I arrested him they'd arrest me too. Kept victim blaming. Kept making me try to prove why I was in a public park on a sunny summer day. Heard him say he would do it again and did nothing about it. I've filed complaints with IAB, CCRB, NCPD, NYS AG, two senators, NC DA, and more - all complaints magically go unanswered or disappear in an effort for them to cover up this attack. I'm still trying to get someone to listen.
Go to the press tell them your story use the media because that’s the only way you’ll get things to change. You can work with the system because other police officers will defend these bad apples. The whole orchard is spoiled
Even as a kid, the one thing Law & Order taught me was that prosecutors were shady as hell. Seriously...Sam Waterston's character always did things that even as a kid I knew weren't okay but the show would justify it as "justice" and "to get the bad guy"...even with his character consistently getting angry at the judge when he was told he couldn't partake in illegal practices.
Facts. These prosecutors were super lame. Almost like they felt that breaking law is fine as far as it lets them feel good, nice, and morally superior and do whatever they wanted. Terrible.
And that is INTENTIONAL on the show. Oliver is overdoing the positive portrayal of the police and attorneys. They have plenty of flaws in the original series. They had more originally in the 90s episodes, which were also far, far better written. SVU IS a whitewash.
Yeah, that kind of writing isn't really presenting cops as "flawed" as much as it is presenting them as being "human" despite being superheroes. The end result of that trope is that they come off even more heroic.
People who have been sexually assaulted may know to ask for a rape kit to collect valuable evidence, yet how valuable is that evidence when those kits are stacked by the thousands in police back storerooms where they’ve been waiting for years just to be processed. Many police departments don’t routinely process or pay any attention to them, ignoring them entirely.
Yeah... most of those crimes don't get reported. Most of the ones that are reported don't end up with a kit tested. Most the kits tested don't result in an arrest. Most of the arrests don't result in a conviction. So overall, it kind of proves the point that it's a far more widespread problem than most people realize, with a fraction of a fraction of a fraction etc etc. ending up properly resolved.
@@furiousapplesack Yet a lot of men on the internet still act like they are being persecuted and that there is a huge epidemic of false rape accusation. Try telling people like that statistics like these and they won't care. Reality doesn't matter to them.
@Ashwin Varghese NYPD can afford a 100K robot dog to menace people in low income housing areas. Wait, that's right, we don't know how much the dog cost because they "refused" to tell the public.
So actual lawyer here, watching law and order was what originally got me into law when I was about 14-15. I loved all the shows and SVU was my favorite. I even wanted to be a prosecutor because of how much I loved the show and how much the practical experience I was getting in real life was reinforcing my love for law! Now I am 32, been practicing for about 4 years, I still love being a lawyer, but I am definitely less enthused about being a prosecutor. Nowadays I still love the show but I am painfully aware of how it misrepresents a lot of aspects about both police work and prosecuting cases, and especially with how prominent the BLM movement has become in exposing police misconduct, I don’t think I could act as a prosecutor without perpetuating the problems the system already suffers from! I also can say that I don’t enjoy the show any less than I did before I became a lawyer, but it is always interesting when I see a judge rule on something that I know would never happen in real life! Fascinating stuff law and order can be!
@@8arrows so I have not handled any criminal cases on the defense side. I do have plenty of friends from law school who have told me the number is very high. They say that if a client wants to go to trial it’s because they are determined to prove their innocence in spite of the evidence, or because they don’t like the plea deal given to them!
Damn, eight years. A lot and not enough has changed since then. I remember when I stumbled upon the today show, and it being pretty radical to conservative me. Now it seems like the opposite, but that's because I've changed so much.
I also remember the CSI Effect when that was at it's peak. Which had two effects. 1. People invading crime scenes trying to CSI themselves. 2. People having way way too high expectations of what CSI can actually do.
I remember that coming up in a interview: people telling the police stuff like "and I broke a glass this morning so that's why you might find microscopically small glass shards on me", expecting every piece of their clothing being carefully examined. I love Criminal Minds, partly for the team and partly because they tend to show that people don't turn into cruel killers for fun and giggles. But I'm aware that profiling isn't the magical bullet any more than crime scene investigation is.
I remember reading about either one single, real-life case of someone being identified as a criminal based on bite marks on a bologna or ham sandwich, or of this being a hypothetical thing that would work. (I'm about 90 % sure it was the former.) That the teeth marks were "almost like fingerprints". This was about ten years ago. I called bullshit. Yes, okay, the teeth can be unique. But there's the bologna/ham part. I have taken a bite out of too many sandwiches and foods of all sorts to think that is even remotely realistic. If I take a bite from a sandwich, the size of the sandwich as a whole, the hardness of the bread, the firmness and dryness of the bologna/ham, the amount of butter or sauce, and several other factors affect the shape of the bite marks you leave. Hell, even if you just take a bite off a single thin slice of a sausage with very even distribution of fat etc., you don't leave the same imprint every time. Sometimes such a slice just rips in a place you wouldn't expect. Thin meat slices being inside a sandwich makes this all about one hundred times worse. A few years later I was proven right. "Oh, we know now that this was bullshit. This doesn't work." Well, duh.
PSA: Do get a lawyer. Having been to trial, my experience was that the defense attorney is the only sane non-evil person in the room who is not trying to harm you for its own sake. Doesn't matter if the judge is a psycho, at least there's one person in the room who can speak your native language and talk facts and that just feels amazing. Defense attorneys are kind of the good Samaritans of the law world. Might not always be the case; this is just anecdotal. But yes, lawyer good. VERY good.
I agree with all you wrote. I had a traffic court misdemeanor charge, first time I got in trouble with the law ever in my life, and immediately went to my friends who have ever needed a GOOD attorney, to ask them who to hire. Went with the first one mentioned. The service I got was amazing. I was scared to death what the outcome of my case would be, but he never had a word of bad news for me (as in, always convinced me everthing would be fine). He was an absolute BEAST at every appearance, as soon as a prosecutor spoke on my case, he would immediately fire back, making an argument out of everything he could, total pitbull. My case couldn't have had a better resolution without him. I'm not scared to say I am anti-police in general, I cooperate when I interact with them, but I always view defense attorneys as the real heroes of the law. You get a GOOD attorney, (you know who to ask), most of the time you'll walk away with the best possible outcome for your situation.
The worst situation is when a defense-attorney is forced to defend a client they know is guilty. They don't have have a choice and can't throw the trial; they MUST do their best to get them off and they often can't turn the case down because SOMEBODY has to do it, the system requires it. That's probably why they don't want to know if their client is guilty or not. 🤦
@@I.____.....__...__ We don't really know if you're guilty, exactly. If you outright confess to your lawyer the general guidance for your lawyer is to withdraw from the case and tell "don't do that." In a more practical sense, though, even if I suspect you did vaguely the thing the prosecution says you did, I definitely don't know if you're guilty of the specific charges because I don't get to decide that. The jury does. Instead, my job is to make the prosecutor vigorously prove their allegations in a context with lots of scrutiny from a professional person who knows what to look for, investigate the evidence presented for signs of tampering, interrogate opposing witnesses for signs of bias or motive to testify, and, in some cases, guide the defendant in presenting their side of the story (but that's less necessary than the making the prosecution prove it). And even if you do have a guilty client, it's good for everyone that the evidence and claims are thoroughly checked in every case. Nobody wants prosecutors and police feeling even more emboldened to play fast and loose with the freedom of others, which is what will happen if we don't defend folks who look bad up front.
It’s one of the main reason why I want to be a lawyer, I want to ensure that every person has due process, to make sure that people are innocent until proven otherwise.
I want a damn internal affairs tv show. Not a 'we work with the cops to solve cases' a fully independent internal affairs Sherlock Holmes who solves cases relating to the police.
@@hooting-ton5215 there's a few. The British "Line of Duty" was pretty popular, but it largely centered on the corruption of the internal affairs department, which was ripped from the headlines at the time. It's alright.
I did an entire project on the propaganda of dragnet in high school. They were also paying officers to write episodes as well. Dragnet and the phrase thin blue line are also related by the fact that the head of the LAPD had a hand in coining both if that gives you any insight into their philosophy.
Talking about the influence of shows like this for years and I am so happy you guys covered this. It is so underestimated how this can shape a society and expectations. Thank you so much.
You would legit risk ending your time on this planet if you interrupt my grandma while she is watching Law & Order. She died in 2016 and we still don’t have the balls to go in and disturb her cause the show is still on.
Tbf, I think the most truthful storyline on L&O SVU is when the ADA prosecutes a group of cops (I think they were 3) that shot a black kid a dozen times and then gets stalked, threatened, harrased and assaulted for the next 3 seasons before leaving the show. I think it's called the "Terrence Reynolds case" through the series, and the summary is: The cops were looking for a guy with a gun, saw someone that could be him, screamed STOP and inmediately shot him a dozen times. Then, for the entire episode, the ADA gets shunned by all his cop friends because "they thought they were in danger, you can't blame them, for that". The episode was SURREAL, the way they touched the subject was horrible, but the thing that stood out the most for me was how suddenly ALL THE CHARACTERS DID A 180, their personalities, story arcs, relationships with the ADA and characterizations were GONE. Like, I knew the show was gringo copaganda, but it was truly impressive how they managed to completely forget how to write all of those characters in a second, all for the sake of making cops look pitiful in front of... *checks notes* ... the consecuences of their own actions. Edit: I was talking with my mom and she said the kid actually gets shot *32 times*
Those are actually the only episodes of Law and Order I ever watched (I ran into them on the telly), I just quit on it immediately. I remember that the suspect they shot had his hand in his pocket and the cops' argument was that it looked like a gun and could have been one, and it was just so ridiculous to me.
Law and Order has never instilled confidence in the justice system for me. If anything it's done the opposite. It's always been been clear that if anything did happen to me I'd have to be extremely lucky to have a Briscoe, Goren, or Benson to get justice for me.
And more power to you. But not everyone does and/or will view the show this way. It won’t make someone who already knows how corrupt and broken the Justice system is to change their mind. But it does reinforce the beliefs of someone who is unabashedly pro-cop. And it sways people who don’t know much either way into some unconscious biases
@@josawesome1 Completely true. In retrospect, my comment sounds pretty rich coming from me, someone who's never been ignored, let down, or victimized by the justice system.
@@silverloony1170 As John himself might say... 'to your very real credit', you being aware of that is a massive step in the right direction. And that's all anyone calling for justice anywhere wants. For those sitting in positions of privilege to realize that position and hopefully use it to spur change for those not so lucky.
If L&O disillusions you to the justice-system, then you definitely don't want to watch YT channels like Audit the Audit, LackLuster, and James Freeman, those are real life. 😕
Also even in this cop propaganda show they still shoe the devastating consequences of false allegations even without convictions and how cops use violence to get false confessions out of people. Also they often have to luck into stupid criminals otherwise they are powerless to do anything. If you really break it down and compare it to reality.. It ia quite fd up. No confidence.
“He was allergic to bananas” comedians will try for decades to write a better punch line than that and will come up empty handed. Peak unintentional comedy right there.
What makes you think it's unintentional? Many of the writers for individual episodes also write comedy. They also do stuff to see how much they can get away with.
"There was no probable cause for an arrest." "You CREATE probable cause!! You push em' around, you provoke em'!" Holy shit, how did 'Law & Order' get away with not portraying the guy shouting back there to his subordinate such a ridiculously evil pair of sentences as an archvillain? And, regardless of how the show itself frames that dude's role, how the HELL did so many viewers not see anything wrong with that behavior?
Because most of us put ourselves automatically in savior mode. If you go through something in real life that takes away your trust in system you can see other side and can no longer do that.
You know, the irony of Ice-T, writer of such songs as Cop Killer, No Lives Matter and Black Hoodie, being involved in one of the most well-known copaganda franchises in existence hadn't previously occurred to me.
Off the cuff, let's see if I can list the timeline in the correct order; When iced tea released Cop Killa someone else suggested that he wear the uniform for the cover. The reaction was scandal just because of the *implication* (obviously because the title the conclusion drawn for why he would have the uniform on was incredibly dark and also an intensely powerful statement at the time.) It wasn't long after that that he actually got his first acting gig (I believe ever but definitely the first significant one) in 'Tank Girl' of all things - and while there are more details to it, the backstory of the character he plays is he was a cop and it's tremendously prevalent in demeanor and performance. - I think the reason they chose to have him take that role was actually meant to be a little bit tongue-in-cheek at the time. (A bit similar to having Laurence Fishburne do a promotion for batteries or RuPaul being 'cured' and teaching heterosexuality and masculinity in "But I'm a Cheerleader" when you know the outside context of the figure the audience understands it's a bit more of a meta joke.) While I'm extremely ACAB and I think a lot of people have forgotten about episodes of the original and SVU that not only aged like milk but we're just never good in general when they came out; from premise to writing and execution beginning to end I *do* think that in fairness: T's the character, story lines (especially multi episode ones) and general purpose brought in a lot more nuanced and diversity in general both to perspectives, stereotypes, socio-economic status ect than fan favorite Detective Toxic Masculinity *ever* did (with the writers constantly scrambling to find excuses for why it was okay for him to constantly fly off the handle when canonically not acceptable and the 'I have young daughters' projection was no longer viable.) Then again, I watched the show when it debuted and haven't caught anything unless I was in a medical environment since the first term of the Obama administration so things could have drastically changed. TLDR; I could give examples of how the character he played had several storylines where it was understood that for some people strict adherence to the law wasn't viable and really not worth "being a cop" to - but I think the tremendous worship and *literal cheering* I'd hear when Stabler was prepared to end a sleeping suspect in their home is *far* more problematic and more deserving of our concern and criticism.
The part where cops are watching L&O to get a rudimentary clue what to do in certain situations perfectly demonstrates that 21 weeks of training just does not cut it in a modern society.
is that right ? what about paid sabbatical after every minority orchestrated or not purge profile harras intimidate frame abuse extort molest shackle excessive force incarcerate ... you got the gist ?
100% Agreed you should need a degree to be a cop. You need one to be a lawyer, or a doctor, why the f*ck not to be a gun weilding enforcer faced countless difficult and life threatening scenarios. In other countries, you go to college, and learn a fair amount about the actual laws, and human psychology, which is common sense
I think you may have missed one of the more pernicious and often unrealized effects of Law & Order. In those 3% of cases that do go to trial, members of the jury can have very warped perceptions of what to expect during a trial, and what to expect in the way of evidence. Juries can become deadlocked over what some jurors may think (based on Law & Order) is necessary evidence. The order part of the show uses a wide variety of tropes and tricks that just aren't realistic. The prosecution isn't going to trick the defendant into confessing in open court during cross-examination; there may not be DNA evidence, hair or fiber evidence, or whatever the forensic soup of the day is, for each crime. Alternately, one piece of evidence that is almost always the slam dunk in the prosecution's favor on the show may lead jurors to feel that they don't need to consider any other facts because of one circumstantial piece of evidence. It's a compelling police procedural drama but that's just not what an average day in court is going to be for anyone.
You are wrong. Just recently, as Alex Jones was on the witness stand, he was called out on his own emails and text messages, that his legal team had sent to the Plaintiff lawyer representing the first family to file suit against Jones, in Texas. The look on Jone's face, as the Plaintiff attorney put up on a screen, his own emails and texts as exhibits, as Jones realized he was caught red handed lying in court, it was priceless. It does happen, just not often.
@@DK-zu6tt It's not the norm. You have to find some cases with a very specific mix of clowns, incompetents, and idiots. Which, granted, you've got in that case.
All my life, my dad has loved Law and Order. When I was beginning to think about college and wanted to go into law, I began watching the show so I would know what things they were doing wrong so I would never ever do them.
I served on a jury for a domestic assault case when I was 19, and during the process where the lawyers vet the jury a little bit, one of them asked me if I felt like police shows like Law and Order were realistic. I said no, and he asked me why. I wasn't sure how to respond to that question right away because there's just *so much* that isn't realistic and it would be insane to think that it was. I responded with that things move too quickly, there's procedures for everything, and real life isn't written for TV. Hearing that guy say that the show was very similar to the real life thing was just baffling to me.
0:44 OMFG I can only imagine how many takes were needed for both these women to deadpan these lines! If they did manage to pull it off in one take, they both deserve ALL THE EMMYS IN EXISTENCE!
When the original LAW & ORDER was brought back - Wolf had also been working on a new L&O called FOR THE DEFENCE, which would have looked at cases from the side of defence attorneys, which I’d love to see done someday.
If I had a dollar for every time the phrase, "a few bad apples" was applied to police brutality and corruption I could pay my medical bills and trauma therapy for the rest of my years.
@@Llynnyia If you interpret "one bad apple spoils the barrel" to mean that apple farmers will throw out an entire barrel if they find one bad apple in it, then it makes sense. But what that saying really means is that any bad apples need to be removed ASAP, or else their rot will spread, thus making the rest of the apples in that barrel bad.
@@spongeintheshoe Well, the fact that the system seems to be pretty bent on protecting the bad apples from being removed suggests that the rot has already done a lott of spreading...
Honestly, knew the concept of this episode before it began. I remember watching a few years back and being really unsettled how Stabler is painted as the guy who breaks the rules but all's well that ends well. He literally tortures people, and its painted as a good things because he gets the criminal.
It's the glorification of it that gets me. If a cop show wanted to show a cop beating a suspect -- well that happens. It's the framing of it as a good thing or "excusable" that has rotted the brains of too many viewers/
When I did Mock Trial as a 16 year old and had to learn courtroom etiquette - with actual DA's and Judges giving instructions - I learned very quickly how off Law & Order was at portraying the Law
The biggest coincidence just happened I was watching this clip from the show, got up to use the restroom, and walked by the living room where my mother was watching the Adam Driver episode.
Shades of when the DOD had to ask the producers of “24” to stop glamorizing torture because troops were waaaaay too enthusiastic about mimicking their hero Jack Bauer in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Funny how they depict cops deeply caring about getting justice, bc basically every experience I've had with them was them trying to figure out how not to make the situation their problem or being threatening. Literally gotten ignored more than once for reporting a robbery that happened to me that I find out later wasn't even looked at past my initial report. It was basically left in pending status. I had a fender bender situation and once insisted they took a report so I wouldn't be blamed for the crash and when I called to the precinct for the report I found out the cop pretended to write the report and then tossed it and there was no record except a few scribbled off hand notes. Or they've just yelled at me for even interacting with them. Once when my dad's apartment was on fire (an accident caused by a lit candle my dad forgot to put out) and he was too far away to get there ATM so as a teenager I had to go see what was happening, and the cops got called to investigate before we knew the cause. The cop asked who's apartment it was when I got there and I said mine, and then he came back a few minutes later and started yelling at and berating me saying that it was my dad's not mine when he looked it up. I was a kid, I lived there, I was just answering and in shock from the situation. And then after the cop fucks off and I don't think we ever heard from him again. I was a kid, I was just answering bc I lived there and my dad wasn't home. Had another situation that a cop tried to trick me into confessing I caused a car crash that I happened to have witnessed (and I was an even younger kid then) and was stupid enough to introduce myself and give a statement bc I still thought cops were the good guys. I was also a teenager then and the cops were pressuring me into saying things I didn't mean. They just wanted to pin it on someone so they wouldn't have to investigate and do their damn job and I was almost liable for thousands of dollars while in High School. I have a lot of stories of cops hating doing their job and trying whatever they can to avoid work or do anything noble, and I have a relatively decent experience with them compared to so many. I have friends who were assaulted and raped and the cops immediately would start trying to blame the victim and antagonize them to "admit" they were making it up so the case would be dropped. It always makes me roll my eyes in shows when it makes cops look like they care bc I have maybe seen it once in person, and that felt like the outlier (a cop actually helped me find a friend who was trying to commit suicide and I appreciate him doing that). But I and most people I know have little to no good experience with them (and not when we were doing any crimes but needed them to help with things happening to us).
@@Jarod-vg9wq I didn't because it's scary to do that. Most of these were before the culture as a whole started to acknowledge how awful they are and I didn't want to catch more of their ire than I was just asking them to do their job or be decent human beings.
Jfc. I'm a millennial and I had *vaguely* heard of the Abner Louima incident prior to this. I looked it up tonight and finished up this show literally in tears. Law enforcement wants cases like that to be outliers. Thing is, I think we'd all be horrified if we knew the truth of how often they abuse their power and hurt the most vulnerable among us.
Yeah, the Abner Louima incident is notable mainly because it was so far over the line that _other cops_ stepped in to stop it. That's an incredibly high bar.
I was looking for this comment, had no idea how to spell his name. I'm a millennial and I have *never* heard of it, and I try to pay attention to this sort of thing. but to be honest, it's getting hard to keep up with all the police brutality/shooting cases against black individuals. I'm definitely going to look into it now.
I’m surprised they’re never called out their “a few bad apples” tapping point. The full saying is “one bad apple spoils the bunch” which is exactly the point that critics of the police are trying to make.
I grew up on Law & Order, especially SVU. This was back in the early 2000's, so I often watched with my mom, and it often started conversations that were important to have. Sometimes after episodes, my mom would turn to me and say something like "you know if [event from episode] ever happens to you, you should [appropriate response to the event], right?" Or she would check in and make sure I understood what a character did was the wrong thing to do. You know, we'd talk about what to do if assaulted or if a stranger wants to meet you in a secluded place or a guy is abusive. Important things that young girls need to know. I can't even fathom thinking I should learn my profession from a tv show, though. Idk.. I was taught young that a tv show is not reality. The characters are made up for the purpose of telling a story that communicates a particular message or feeling. It's to entertain, not necessarily to portray the real world. And that's what I loved about them. Anything could happen. Giant man-eating snakes, zombies, rich white people going to jail when they commit a crime... I knew what happened on the show wasn't representative of reality. Hec, the trial procedures were complete fiction! But after spending all day in the real world, it was nice to watch a universe where there was some justice in the justice system, where the bad guys don't always go free, where someone in the legal system genuinely fought and cared for the victims, where woman got justice against abusers and r*p***. It's a nice fantasy world to escape to when reality is overwhelming, and that's all it should be. People shouldn't be learning to do their jobs from fiction. Fiction is great for aiding the teacher, but it shouldn't BE the teacher.
There was a "full circle" moment with defense attorneys where Stabler's own daughter got caught by NYPD on a DUI. Stabler ends up hiring that female black attorney that's always making the prosecutors and the cops jobs difficult. In this case, she just shrugged off the negative vibes, and said she's there to do her job and that is to represent her clients the best she can. During court, she did go to bat for the family by saying there's no flight risk for the defendant.. her father is a Manhattan SVU detective of 17 years, with strong ties to the community.
I remember that episode. I loved how they threw massive shade at Stabler for it, especially by his wife. It’s just a shame that it never really gave him a change of heart or anything and he was back to his usual “I would be in jail or at least unable to work anything other than a menial low wage job 3 months at a time in any just society” shtick
The one line I always remember that aged like milk especially in recent times is delivered by Olivia Benson. “I got the biggest gang backing me up. The nypd.” Oof, shits pretty on the nose with all the police crime done with no repercussions due to other police looking out for them.
Older generations: "Don't believe everything you see on TV." Also older generations: "I've watched all the seasons of L&O. I'm practically an attorney."
I've been watching Scrubs lately and aside from it still... mooooostly holding up it's also surprising how many hard topics it covers, from Kelso writing off patients who don't have insurance or submitting patients with great insurance for more and more tests, to the grief and burnout of connections made with patients who don't make it
I think Scrubs succeeds alot because of how often patients die, that's weird to say but honestly it helps ground the series when not every case is a freaking House episode. Or when you get shots of the doctors looking exhausted and overworked.
I'm reminded of a subtext in so many cop shows, and many specifically set in NYC, going back several decades, about the single good cop working amongst cops that are "on the take" (i.e. dirty cops). What I got from that as a middle class white kid was that the cops as a whole were severely corrupt and that there were individual cops that were good.
I spent a lot of time as a child yelling about how internal investigations were just doing their jobs and why weren’t other cops helping make the police office a better place
It's not even just Law & Order. It makes you wonder the collective effect of all other crime and police shows on TV and how they make people afraid of things that don't happen nearly as often as they think
I think it depends on the genre for the show IMO. More comedy based cop shows like B99 or Psych they show typically besides their core group (who usually are also bad examples of cops even if they're effective) are either incompetent, corrupt, or evil. Where shows like CSI will literally do episodes where cops will straight up just shoot and kill people they think are bad and turns out they arent and then they defend why that's ok or just straight up ignore they profiled and killed a person while painting a fake picture of the superpowers that are the police force.
Just a sign of our times. I'm almost 60 yrs old and I've never felt this Nation was so divided as it is now. Not that it was perfect, but today we all seem to live in fear. That's the best way to control a population, just think of the Patriot Act.. It was supposed to be for a very limited time and yet it's still here. Doesn't seem like we're any safer, but our privacy has all but disappeared. Hmmm...
or the flip side of that, they make people resist any progress toward ACTUAL solutions. Get on any local Nextdoor page around the Floyd days and every single discussion about refocusing public funding from violent policing was met with a resounding chorus of "if we reduce police spending who will stop all the crimes???"
@@sha7303 I did actually call the cops once when someone came into my office and held it up trying to kidnap his ex. The police wouldn’t do anything until they had 18 cop cars around to storm a now empty building with riot gear, stuck guns in my and coworkers faces, about 10 stood around doing nothing for 2 hours besides “look busy” you know besides constantly go over to the ex gf the shooter was trying to kill/kidnap and repeatedly blame her for it happening/accuse her of working with the shooter. So congrats cop hater here who called the cops and was only shown why cops suck
I love SVU but always realize that the show is fiction. I can say the one thing I have learned from the show is NEVER talk to the police without a lawyer because law enforcement will lie to get you to say something you shouldn't.
The United States is a strange place where uniformed police officers have no duty to protect life and are allowed to lie in the course of an investigation to extract confessions.
As a long time SVU fan, I’ve been struggling with this in recent years. On one hand, it’s incredibly problematic in its pro-police stance but, on the other hand, it’s so nice to get to experience the fantasy that is people generally believing victims of rape.
And doing something about it most weeks. But I've always watched the Law and Order series and other cop shows like NYPD Blue (but I had to stop with the Chicago show - it was too much) knowing they, like any action movie, are entertaining escapism. That Ice-T and Richard Belzer are/were on SVU only made that particular show that much more entertaining for me. Ice-T who performed the song "Cop Killer" with his band Body Count - the absurdity is most entertaining.
I made a critical mistake as a teen when I urged my friend to talk with the local SVU team after being r@ped. I thought they would do good, but instead my friend was left even more traumatized than before talking with them, told by the police that they lied, and an officer even stalked them. I love the idea of a system that actually believes survivors, but the harm that shows like this cause is immense. Yes, this is a burden I carry, both as someone who urged another survivor to report, but also as a survivor myself.
Matthew Modine (I can’t remember the chracter’s name) also said the same thing in the episode where Stabler spit at him. I remember the ending of that episode…Stabler yelled and punched his locker a few times.
One of my first jobs in mental health was working in a residential treatment facility for teenagers. Whenever SVU came on, they would all, girls’ and boys’ floors alike, disappear into their rooms to watch it. I asked a more senior staff one day why that was. She said, “Well, think about it. It creates a fantasy for them, in which the cops are the good guys, the victim is always rescued, and the person that was hurting them is brought to justice. Most of these kids never have and never will see that.”
Wow. This comment should be seen. Very eye opening.
😔
That's heartbreaking
It's true
I grew up a victim 9f abuse and was abandoned at the age of 9 when my mom passed and my step-dad dropped me off at a residential facility
From 9 till I was 15 I was in long term residential treatment
I wish I got my justice
I'm 25 now and attending school to work with kids and teens so I can give the help that I didn't have
If I can change just one life then I'm happy
Yeah, a lot of abusers are never held to account because the victim often knows their abuser and fears repercussions from reporting them. I experienced this first hand when I was assaulted. Not only was my claim less likely to be believed it would have put me and my siblings into foster care because my babysitter was taking care of us while my mom was on deployment. so I did like SVU because it gave me a false feeling of comfort but now looking back on it. I really don't like how over the top the show is, those interrogation scenes don't age well.
Ok, an innocence project version of Law and Order would actually be genius. Imagine bringing back like 20 of the actors for characters who were convicted who have aged because canonically they’ve been in jail for years since their conviction, and then showing that the cops got it wrong in that case. Tell me you wouldn’t watch that.
@@DeepakPal-tg7hy There are corrupt cop shows, but how many of them can you think of where those cops aren't the main characters? The Wire would be one of the rare ones. Something like a hypothetic Innocent Project version of L&O wouldn't make the cops the protagonists. You'd see it from the perspective of that group.
Yeah I'd watch it
i kinda like this idea. i wanna see the main series cast confront their mistakes and watch them cope w the guilt they carry. that would actually be pretty interesting
I’d definitely watch it. But that specific show would never be made. They might make one with other cases, but not with cases from Law & Order or any of its spin offs. That show has too much power in Hollywood & they’d push against it.
23:04 in they pitched it
I feel like the phrase "dying of bananaphylactic shock" was very under appreciated for how brilliant it was.
Sometimes I wish I was in the audience and could give the joke the proper laughs myself
I watched so much SVU in high school because I wanted to believe in a world where the rape and sexual abuse my friends were dealing with from predators in and out of school was taken seriously. It was cathartic. And a woman like Det. Benson refusing to apologize for defending victims paired up with a tough guy with a strong sense for women and children was super compelling. It helped that they always treated each other as equals, challenged each other, supported each other, respected boundaries, etc. It even showed all the gross ways victims get screwed out of justice, but in real life it’s even worse. In real life, almost none of my friends got justice, but it felt good to pretend that they would.
As a teen who was being abused by a groomer I also watched this show and daydreamed about justice for me and my friends. We never got it but to its credit, SVU really got me through.
The truth is most males are programmed to want to protect women. Even the police, It's just a select group of sickos who are not wired that way. But sex crimes are usually difficult to prove. And we cannot convict people in a just system based solely upon an alleged victim's word. It sucks, but that's just the way it is. People lie about it all the time..
10:37
Haha, this was my case, but with my mother. Because women would get arrested in the show too. Unlike real life.
Guess that's why the world is such a mess. The show depicted an out of control and violent psychopath who would routinely assault people and break the law. You have zero basis to criticize criminals if you support ones with badges.
Give a raise to whoever came up with "bananaphylactic shock"
🍌
🍌🫨
Word
Bet the censors looked at anaphylactic and the subject matter and just went, "No."
they probably also considered anal-phylactic shock...but they made the right choice!
"The NYPD is famously anti-shooting, unless they are the ones doing it..." Had to be one of the top 10 savage lines of this series.
Considering they also enforce the stupid pistol magazine restrictions among other absurd requirements, yeah
They also have their standard issue pistols having weird standards too, but hey, sucks to suck
Save for Columbo. The only guy from the NYPD that never needed a gun 😂
@@brandonayong5823 He was LAPD
@@peterbyrne7348 Oh you're right. Well I stand corrected
Notice the pro-police brutality audience seemed in shock.
"Bananaphylactic shock" Absolutely brilliant.
We all need to just take a moment and appreciate whoever wrote that particular pun.
I know, I was crestfallen when it didn't get the laugh it deserved
I missed it, thought it just said anaphylactic shock, probably the audience did too
You just KNOW the guy who came up with that one had it in the back of his mind for years, just waiting and praying for a situation where he could unleash it upon the world.
Did you hear about the trapeze artist who was killed by a circus clown? The clown stabbed him with a banana and he died of bananaphalactic shock. This joke, or some iteration of it must have existed for at least 100 years, or a few minutes.
That writer deserves a freaking raise. That was a great joke.
“The NYPD is famously anti-shooting, unless, they are the ones doing it”
John a f**ken savage for that 😂
I mean, the state *does* have a monopoly on violence..
@@MrNikVadik Someone didn't watch the video
Uh ya the who would you prefer has a gun if you encounter them out on the street? A cop, or a guy about to mug you? Like come on ppl.
@@brynnharris-hamm1321 statistically you have more interactions with a cop than a mugger on a daily basis
@@Chaos447 Yep. You didn't watch it. Derp.
Every time "bad apples" are mentioned, it staggers me how police hypemen forget the rest of that saying. "A few bad apples _spoil the barrel."_ In other words, if you have a bunch of good apples and a couple of bad ones, pretty quickly it turns into _all bad apples._
It's amazing how many people refuse to use the full phrase
People aren’t apples.
If you stand next to an asshole, you become one?
Maybe in your case.
if every institution is ruined by 'a few bad apples' then say goodbye to literally every institution on earth that has ever or will ever exist. Some pastors rape children? Do away with the church. Some daycare workers abuse/rape children? Do away with daycare. Some care personal abuse elderly / disabled people? Do away with all care. Some people abuse the various support programs that exist to help out struggling people? Do away with that too. What kind of nonsense argument is that? There is no perfection in this world and there never will be. But go around and demonize everything because of a few bad people and see where that gets you. Fact is, most police do their work properly. Prosecution is also not part of the police, that's a different department. You can all ask your democrat vice president how high ranking prosecutors put innocent people in jail over bullshit. She made a career out of it.
@@Mauldoon5 chances are that you will actually become one if you spend enough time with them.
@@Mauldoon5 have you never seen a teenager who starts hanging out with other teenagers who make bad decisions, and they start also making bad decisions? How about worked somewhere where a bunch of people slack off all the time, and new hire start out strong then fall into also slacking off? Humans naturally adapt to the group - used to be a means of survival, now it's just innate. So yes, if a few cops get away with criminal treatment of suspects and civilians, then those who are working with them are much more likely to first just let their actions slide, and eventually end up participating in it as well. It happens in all settings if unchecked.
Bananaphylactic shock. Someone give that writer a raise.
You KNOW that one had been brewing in the back of the writer's mind for years, waiting and praying for a highly improbable situation where its magnificence could be unleashed upon the world in all its puntastic glory.
Bananalphylatic...
I love it 😂😂
A top tier pun 👏
On my next Dr visit I'm going to steal that joke. It's hard to find medical humor that's funny.. ;)
Honestly the only thing Law and Order taught me is ‘never say anything without a lawyer’
Yep! Cops and true crime shows have taught me that guilty or not ask for a lawyer and dont even say good day to cops.
I agree. Another thing that Law and Order taught me is that the police don't always "get their man."
That's a really great lesson for everyone to learn though. I haven't ever actually watched it myself, but I've learned that and a ton more from all kinds of different fictional and true crime media.
This is the best advice. Don't talk to the police, not even about what you had for breakfast. You never know what their goal is. If you say you had eggs for breakfast but a witness they never told you about said you had pancakes, you are suddenly guilty of lying to the police, and this is a crime, you CAN be arrested and convicted for this alone and go to jail. It does not matter what the truth is, it only matters what you can prove in court and no... society has moved to the guilty until proven innocent standard so a lot of innocent people go to jail.
The same is obvious in My Cousin Vinny where Daniel-san accidentally confessed to a murder
I remember once watching SVU with my very L&O fanatic parents, and saw a case very similar to my own get solved with justice. My parents empathized with the girl and she got closure. The same parents who blamed me for my own case that never got anywhere with reporting.
L&O is fun, but it's a lie.
Uffff, that's rough.
Ain’t that a similar picture. I’m sorry you experienced that too with your folks like I did mine
Your relationship with you parents ain’t good is it?
@@Jarod-vg9wq What do you think, Captain Obvious?
No it is not a lie, it is fiction. At the start they specifically point that out! They don't claim that anything about this show is real, they just provide entertainment.
Whoever wrote "bananaphylactic shock" has just hit their comedic peak.
I'm sorry, in a career defined by comedic reporting of the news, you're not gonna get a better off-the-wall pun in without it feeling completely forced.
It could feasibly have been "bananaLphaylactic shock" which would also be fitting and excellent
That truly is excellent word play
Of course it's "Forced", I imagine that just the fact it was a banana makes that assumption obvious!
Cheers!
Retentively analphylactic
I’m gonna go ahead a guess it was Dan formerly of Cracked. He wrote a bunch of the After Hours sketches and it seems on brand for him
I like how the main defence for anything cop related is 'one or two bad apples', when the original saying is literally that one bad apple spoils the barrel.
Why is that the saying though can't you just throw away the bad apple? I never got the metaphor.
@@destroyerblackdragon The idea is that you SHOULD throw away the bad apple ASAP. If you have a rotten apple in your barrel, the rot spreads to other apples extremely quickly if you ignore it. Throwing away the bad apples in a police context would mean holding cops who abuse their power accountable and not covering it up, and because they haven't done that, that corruption has spread across the police force.
@@schicktmirkarakale1232 I didn't know rot could spread from on thing to another.
Are criminals the 'one or two bad apples' of society as well? That's why I don't buy that argument.
@@destroyerblackdragon that’s how rot works, my guy
As a SA survivor, I can fully attest how cathartic Law & Order SVU has been to watch. To see the fantasy of people like me getting justice from people who genuinely cared. But even as I watched it as a scared 15 year old, I knew it was all a fantasy. That cops and the system of getting said justice is a difficult climb that I'll never get on because I know the odds are against me. As much as I love SVU, I want an Innocence Project type show, where victims, both convicted in jail and silenced to never have a case, can get real justice. And people should know that the police really is against you as an SA survivor.
What I find a bit scary is that apparently L&O is still attractive to somebody who knows that it's all lies.
Even worse: it's a lie that feeds on itself - there are cops who get their ideas of how to do their job exactly from that show, so except that apparently they leave out the "actually listen to the victims/survivors" bits and focus on the fun manly bits like shooting, beating and maybe 'pushing' somebody to making a confession.
Sadly SANE's, in reality, seem to exist to pacify victims of sexual assault. Going through one of these exams is humiliating but when you learn that most of the kits sit in some evidence locker among the nations backlogs it becomes degrading and demoralizing to say the least.
I'm sorry for what you went through.
I am so sorry you went through a sistema that doesn't work. I am glad that you are here. Thank you for sharing your take on this, it is you voice and others like yours that need to be heard. We have to be smart about the power that media has, but not only that. Systems need to work, full stop.
Something can be done, something must be done.
I hope you're okay, and had a good day!
There have been 2 from ABC: InJustice and Conviction. Both only lasted one season.
I was sexually abused up until the age of 4 by my biological father. There are multiple videos of me, a tiny toddler, describing in graphic detail what happened. Therapy at age five, years of symptoms of PTSD, and an official diagnosis of C-PTSD (PTSD caused by repeated trauma), and years of therapy as an adult. Thirteen years later, he still has never been held accountable. The case had to be reopened when I was 17, and while the cps officer I worked with was very kind, she simply couldn't do anything about it. The system is so fundamentally flawed that despite irrefutable evidence, the DA won't even take the case. He's allowed to be with kids, he's married, he lives in the same house he always has with a family that loves him and knows nothing. He worked with kids at a bookstore. I don't want to think about how many others have been hurt since then. Of course he's a monster and he forever will be, but I'm almost more angry at the system that allowed him to get away with it. The bad guy is bad, thats their whole shtick, it's just scary realizing that a lot of the good guys aren't good
I will never and should never forgive him, but that automatic response of "he needs to die" is too good for these people. They can die a martyr, innocent and killed for no reason. They deserve to live in a world that knows what they are, be repulsed and shunned, they deserve to suffer like their victims suffered, death is too kind
It's built by abusers that's why they don't prosecute abusers. I'm sorry for what happened to you.
You are amazing for telling your story even though law enforcement and the judicial system has totally failed you. The system fails regularly but it has also failed in trying to shut you up. Keep talking. There are countless others who will be empowered and inspired by you. PTSD and c-PTSD are the result of soul damage. Your dud is a POS forever. You are a winner 🏆 🥇 forever.
I am very sorry that happened to you. That’s a terrible thing to live through.
Firstly - I am so sorry.
Secondly - your way with words and ability to articulate a horrific and complicated story is just ☆☆☆☆☆
Thirdly- thank you. There's more people out here who understand you.
Thank you for sharing this ..... i don't even have the words.
Hope you are well 🙏
For sure our system is still flawed. Weak laws are not the fault of police it’s the fault of soft on crime political agenda. It needs to change. Your story is horrendous. I’m so sorry. I wish you peace, comfort and security. There is no excuse for such weakness in our judicial system.
"A**less corpse found at bottomless brunch" is a hugely underrated headline. That's dad pun power to the max! The crowd barely acknowledged it!
You coulda got way more mileage out of that “bananaphylactic shock” joke. That is pure gold.
so dead 😂
*ban-anal-phylactic
I can’t hear you, I have a banana in my ear
Yeah the joke has mass apeel
Yea, he never did say bananaphylactic ANAL shock!
They did do one episode called “Justice Denied” where Olivia realized that she forced a false confession from someone, but it seems like a largely untouched topic outside of that instance.
Let me guess. It was a mistake, she felt bad for a couple minutes, and got the situation remedied/reversed or if it didn't get remedied/reversed, Olivia still felt bad about it and therefore it's okay. Am I warm on how the show handled that?
@@howlandcrowe9807 pretty much, Benson nabbed the real rapist and the guy she forced a confession out of was freed with an apology. No consequences for Benson (to be fair, when she realized she was wrong, she busted her ass to get the guy out) other than the victims chewing her out, no restitution for the 8 years stolen from the falsely accused outside of an "apology" from the judge.
@@howlandcrowe9807 she got (rightfully imo) sued. it was a plot point for several episodes.
One of the best episodes they ever did.
olivia is a woman right?
"Ladies and gentlemen the story you are about to see is bullshit the names have been changed to protect the LAPD because they helped to save a bunch of money on props"...instant classic
Another problem with L&O is that the bad guys are just that - bad guys. They aren't "people" who are considered innocent until proven guilty. They're bad guys who need to be stopped at all costs. This is how police see suspects when they learn their tactics from this show. Also why so many cops immediately become hostile when you know your rights. They think you must know a lot about your rights BECAUSE you expected an encounter with the police, and thus they believe you've obviously committed a crime.
That’s what makes SVU so reasonable for its audience. Even in prison, if your rap sheet includes sex crimes or crimes against children, you’re in a world of hurt. Amongst the prison population, everything can be justified except for rape. No one, unequivocally no one, cares about the person behind the charges in SVU and that’s we’ve all collectively agreed on that regardless of the merit.
Remember the series mostly dealt with murders, rape, and now organized crime. All field where the suspect is believed to have done some heinous crimes. Probably be a different show if they dealt with shoplifters. The original L&O run at least had the occasional defendant with an understandable axe to grind.
@@SEAZNDragon SVU has also done several episodes about falsely accused and occasionally falsely convicted. Not to mention the ones about misconduct and brutality.
So John is mad that L&O is better then real life seems he's mad the wrong thing this is the biggest eye roll facepalm that a talking head has ever given and it's hilarious
@@shanedaley6236 you've kind of missed the point, champ
When my mom saw this, she commented on how we basically expect untrained civilians to be responsible for deescalating encounters with the police instead of expecting our highly-trained, taxpayer-funded police force to be able to deescalate situations.
yeah, it'd be like entering the hospital as a patient and doing/organizing all your own tests and treatments. that's what the 'professionals' are supposed to do.
Then think about how "highly trained" some of m are... no wonder things go wrong.
I believe the problem usually resides in the 'highly trained' part of that sentence.
can someone tell why the US is willing to put up with such poorly trained police officers? can't think of any developed country putting in this little effort, not even close. several years training, standardised exams seems the norm. what is it with the US? still living in the 18th/19th century?
@@embreis2257 I can guess that it has to do with cost. More training and weeding out bad cops will cost more (not that cops are cheap now). The American way is to go cheap and crappy for public services.
Back in 2011 I was raped. Initially I didn't want to press charges, I just wanted to go to the hospital. I was turned away at 2 emergency rooms because they weren't equipped to do a rape kit. Despite me telling them I didn't want one, I just wanted the bleeding to stop. So I eventually felt pressured into calling the cops just to get any support. 2 male officers came in to interview me, mocked me, refused to take evidence, and told me that I wouldn't be able to afford a lawyer because the person who raped me was probably richer than I was. (That's not how that works) I did end up getting a rape kit which has either been tossed or is in the backlog, I don't have it in me to ask. My treatment at the hands of the cops and hospitals was honestly more traumatizing than the assault itself.
how terrible!! It is criminal that they wouldn’t treat you for your injuries. I am so sorry that the police officers just made it worse and didnt seem to know how criminal law works. I am glad you shared your experience. I am hoping that it can add to the collective voice that we need to change things.
Fucking doubt
Humans truly excel at harming one another. That's pretty much the limit of their abilities if you consider an "eagle's eye" perspective.
Sure, entertainment and news often prefer to portray the "good" sides of human interaction, but that's just the fringe. 90% is geared toward abuse, trolling, lack of empathy, an absence of ethics, and the complete abandonment of justice.
Simply consider Chump '45 and his past 30+ years of activities, and it will tell you everything you need to know. 🙄 Ultimately, the only "justice" is KILLING KILLERS. Or dismembering r@p1$t$. And decapitating those who commit grand larceny.
That’s really sad, I’m so sorry!
I'm so sorry this was your experience. I can't imagine a worse time in life for anyone. Just know that this terrible trauma has not defeated you because you did seek help and you are able to talk about it even in forums like this. Many are unable to discuss their assaults or any subsequent mistreatment because of their shame or fear of rebuttal etc... You are among the strongest of us Morgana Harp. Never let these demons win. Keep telling your story so that others might feel strong enough to tell theirs. Dont be afraid to acknowledge the damage caused by this. Seek help if you feel your grasp on life slipping. Please seek wellness and strength. Cheers! 💗💕💗
"It's an ad for a defective product..." That is a closing line if ever there was one.
Both my parents were cops and they hated the Law in Order franchise. My dad had a particular loathing for Stabler's violent interrogation techniques. A man will say anything under torture AND suspects will lawyer up and not say anything if you get hostile like that. Also, it wasn't until years after I stopped watching SVU that I realized how the show really vilified Internal Affairs when (in theory) I.A. is suppose to police the police and hold them accountable.
So your only dad hated the few accurate portrayals in the show? Sounds about right.
Yeah, I always hate when a detective is an ahole to a suspect or witness and then for some reason the showrunners depict the suspect/witnesses as still being cooperative, or the detective roughs up the suspect and then he starts spilling all the deets, like in what world? You gotta make people want to talk. And this isn't just in L&O type shows. I see it in a lot of European dramas too. If I'm ever a witness or a suspect or a victim, I want an Inspector Barnaby type detective and not that jerk that got assigned my case the one time I was a burglary victim.
Point taken, but there is one thing that seems consistent: in almost every episode where there is a scene in the interrogation room, as soon as the person being interrogated says, "I want a lawyer," the interrogation stops. And there is at least one such scene in almost every episode.
I loved watching Law and Order growing up, especially SVU, so a few years ago I decided to do a rewatch starting from the first season. I was absolutely shocked seeing how angry and violent Stabler was on a regular basis. I don't think I realized before since A) I was a kid and B) I was watching it in a more interrupted (weekly) fashion, but that dude has angry, scary outbursts almost every episode. It got to the point that it really started to bother me and I wondered why Olivia would put up with it.
@@michaelrunco5940 Beating up defendants is terrible for the case. It's about the marathon, not the sprint. But sometimes these shows depict what cops want to do to dirt bags. Cops don't do that shit.
Imagine saying: "I'm a lifeguard. I've learned most of what I know watching Baywatch."
Or "I'm a surgeon. I was trained by watching Grey's anatomy and the Good doctor on netflix." Hard pass, right?
Somehow that's OK for law enforcement? How?🤨
I don't think any of the people who said that in that montage were law enforcers.
@@audreymuzingo933 Well according to one of the former show runner for SVU, it's the case. Here's the ref: 3:16. 🤷🏾♂
@@audreymuzingo933 See, that's your problem. You don't think. You only lick the boots of the police state.
America. That‘s how.
Truly the garbage bin in the 1st world.
Or imagine learning how to survive when you're naked and afraid because you watched naked and afraid. You're real concern should be why you're naked in the first place
One of my favourite crime shows in Germany for years was "Unter Verdacht", which translates to "Under Suspicion". The premise was that an older, female investigator was transferred to the department for internal affairs of the Munich police - and the show made it a point that she mostly got the position because her higher-ups considered her half-retired and figured she wouldn't actually do much.
The only assistant she got was seen as too incompetent for any other department, further strengthening the point that they didn't want her to succeed in her investigations against other officers.
Additionally, her boss was often shown as fundamentally corrupt and trying to hinder her in any way possible due to his own political ambitions.
While Eva Maria Prohacek, the main character, was portrayed as empathetic towards the victims, hard-working and just, the show was going for realism, which meant that the episodes would sometimes have her lose - she'd crack the case, but the officers would get away with light punishment or there would even be a cover-up.
They also did a pretty fantastic episode on brutality against African refugees in the Mediterranean by Frontex officers, basically the European border department that is charged with pushing people off their boats.
Bold, uncomfortable, top-tier German television and rightfully won a couple domestic awards. Fun fact: Christoph Waltz was on one of the episodes before his breakthrough in Hollywood.
Thanks for the tip! Is it on Netflix here in the US? Or any other tv app?
Sounds great and all but is it better than Tatort?😅
@@LeAnwar1 I'd immediately say yes, because it shows the ugly side of police work, but it really depends on which Tatort we're talking here. There are excellent teams (Stuttgart, Dortmund, Wiesbaden come to mind) and stellar single-installments from different teams, but there have been over 1000 films in over 50 years with different teams and in different cities, while Unter Verdacht had a single team for 30 films and 18 years.
Bit of an unfair comparison lol
So a show that just pandered to self-loathing left wingers who hate the institutions they don't control and hold "Refugees Welcome" signs? And big surprise it won lots of awards.
@O. B. Yup, forgot the vocabulary, but have since edited the original post
as a defense lawyer, a realistic show about what we do would be even more dull because most of it happens over email. lol
Just a side note: Ice-T happens to have a metal band that, in spite of his affiliation with Law and Order, is heavily critical of the police, the government perpetuating racism, and (through lyrics that he himself describes as ultra-violence) the use of force by those in power. I can't seem to find the interview, but at one point he mentioned that he enjoyed Law and Order because it portrayed the kind of cops he wished we had.
Addition to your side note, he's always been critical, as well as the contemporaries he came up with musically. I think out of all of the musicians and rappers from the time period he came up with though he remains the most vocally critical
now a got to listen cop killer again
What's the name of his band?
@@kittykittybangbang9367 Body Count.
Ice-T threatens a potential witness with gang rape if he doesn't hand over files. Your 'hero cop,' folks.
Imagine a surgeon saying "I went to medical school, but most of what I do, I learned from grey's anatomy"
Imagine taking them seriously.
@Peter Hine Yeah, that's an important difference. I've had friends who loved medical dramas growing up and then attended med school. ER may have been their favorite show as children, but I would be seriously worried if any of them told me it's how they gained most of their medical knowledge.
T_T
But no Cops have said they got their training from SUV,some guy selling his show said it.
@@budwiser5798 you have to be in subprime ape brain territory to admit you got your training from a TV show
I was talking to a friend and he said, "when they say 'a few bad apples' about the cops, (as Dick Wolf did there) they never finish the idiom 'spoil the whole bunch'." He was so right. Policing is broken. Period.
That idiom doesn't ever get finished to such a degree that I, a non-native speaker of English, had no idea it was a whole saying. Thanks for enlightening me.
@@beth12svist That idiom doesn't ever get finished to such a degree that I , a NATIVE speaker of English, totally forgot it's full meaning!
@@beth12svist English is like that. We have some idioms that have been used for so long, that they're meaning is forgotten or misunderstood. We also have a lot of racist or otherwise problematic ones that need to be retired!
The argument is fundamentally flawed for too many reasons to count in the first place, first and foremost being that the argument is, only a few cops are bad, thereby, the system that allows them to have no accountability should go unchanged.
“Blood is thicker than water” is actually “the blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb”, which is pretty much the literal opposite meaning as it means the bonds and promises you make with people are more important than your relatives. The only reason I feel it isn’t a full opposite is simply because you can still make bonds and promises with your relatives after all
I need a shirt that says "Last Week Tonight Radicalized Me"
Me and my criminal law class in college had the same discussion after a professor brought up how annoying shows like CSI and law & order were in regards to actual criminal justice. Our professor was a defense lawyer for Guantanamo Bay detainees, Buzz was one of the best teachers ive ever had.
The CSI is also unrealistic in how forensic investigation is done. Enhancing photographs, etc., isn't something that is done that easily (if at all) in real life, something that juries expect.
I know this is how many doctors feel about Grey's Anatomy as well.
@@christopherheckman7957 and don't forget NCIS with that seriously flawed two hackers on 1 keyboard scene. You could open a new command window and assign it to a different keyboard and that would get the two hackers one machine, but THAT was not the way to do it or helpful to a popping windows attack. I mean, just kill X-window and go text based and it's all good.....
@@gedece I read somewhere that they put that in as a joke, in reaction to something someone said about the show.
Did you guys learn a lot from watching Law and Order?
The Exonerated 5 where just briefly mentioned but they deserve a whole episode to themselves.
I don’t really know if there’s anything John would have to say about them at this point.
They have a whole mini-series on Netflix. The last episode is quite brutal.
Ken Burns also made a movie-length documentary about them.
And this is why the last season of Brooklyn 99 was so important and powerful. While other seasons had several episodes focused on corruption in the police, their last one had it as the main attraction throughout, and ending on what police reform could potentially do... while showing every challenge to it along the way
Yeah. I always loved that despite being a very silly and funny show B99 hit some pretty hard topics in a meaningful way
@@EatingMachine23 The last season was trash
I'm just really really glad John is still keeping tabs on all of Adam's work, past and present 😂
NYPD SVU did literally NOTHING to help my case in 2019-2020. I was locked in my co-workers room and physically fought him to avoid being raped. He threw me into a TV and kicked me in the ribs about six times. He ripped off my clothes. And the NYPD hauled my ass to the station in front of my students. I gave another statement, about five or so in total. And the buck stopped at the SVU. The detective did jack shit to go after this man, question other teachers and staff, go to the dude's apartment, or anything. He just threw out my case and closed it within days. NYPD sucks! If you are not at least middle class and white, they will not help you, if not hurt you.
+
I’m sad to hear you were treated that way.
I am so sorry you had to go through such trauma. It's especially hard being led down by the people we expect to serve and protect us. I hope you are doing better Courtney. God bless
I’m so sorry. Good for you for fighting back, and good for you for even getting to the police. I was able to fight off my attacker when I was 15, I wasn’t so lucky when I was 20, but I didn’t report either incident. I was too afraid of my story being the same as yours. But hey, at least now I know there’s pride to be found in speaking up.
Hi Courtney,
I am so sorry this happened. I am also a survivor of sexual assault, I reported to the NYPD SVD in 2017, and was treated terribly. I filed a lawsuit against them in 2019. Last year I founded the NYPD Survivor Working Group. We're a group of survivors who were sexually assaulted, reported to the NYPD, were failed horrifically, and experienced institutional betrayal. You're not alone in this and if you'd like to join other survivors and hold the NYPD accountable for the systemic harm they repeatedly cause feel free to reach out. - Alison
I was so upset when they announced they were no longer moving forward with the previously revealed "Law & Order: For the Defense". Would've been so nice to finally see the other perspective in the world's biggest crime show brand.
I like that show
Better Call Saul
Well for the most part a high percentage of law shows are about the defendants so law and order is actually a change of pace.
Part of me can’t help wondering if that was deliberate.
@@alexk0805 Yea Better Call Saul isn't a bad example but the problem is that show focuses more on Jimmy and not enough on his defense cases outside of the main plot. Plus he does some criminal stuff so the message "defense lawyers aren't bad" would kinda get lost there lol
"If medical professionals were routinely claiming..."
Time to do that show, Last Week team, cause these things happen. *A lot*. My wife recently completed clinicals at a major Phx area hospital, & well over half the staff she worked around were conspiracy nuts who said things you'd never expect from a highly trained & experienced healthcare professional. It's terrifying.
You might be surprised at how working with these kind of people makes you like them. Also, they are jaded as hell. It makes it easier for some to sleep thinking its a conspiracy than the real truth of how ugly our society really has become. The real truth kinda of overloads alot of people's brains.
@@wesleyhobbs2332 HAS become? We were always terrible, terrible people. We just have the ability to share that information now and humans are not set up for information
Thank you for sharing- but what kind of conspiracies they can't think Covid19 was a hoax right? Right?!?
My wife works at the hospital. They had to delay and then tone down their COVID vaccine standard to allow very generous “religious exemptions” because they were going to lose too many nurses to maintain minimal health care for the city. The damn NURSES who were responding say in an day out to dozens of code blue’s (resuscitation attempts) for people dying every day at the peak of the pandemic. (Only the doctors were mostly immune to the vaccine conspiracy stuff.)
They’re not that highly trained, tho. Aside from RNs and MDs, there is a dubious amount of training that is now required for nurses and PAs to be hired. But on a side note, of the physicians in the phx metro area that I do know personally, they’ll never tell you that vaccines don’t work, but you might hear the totally reasonable opinion that, because there isn’t enough in situ and ex situ data, it’s hard to know if the vaccines had a valuable cost-benefit ratio. The complexity of clinical and research medicine should never be left to the discernment of laymen. That includes under qualified providers.
I've watched Law and Order SVU since I was little and as I grew up I appreciated Olivia Benson SO much. What she represented, even if a fantasy, was a bit of light in a very depressive subject. We all want to believe in that SVU department even if in real life, your crime would never be solved
John is right. Sex crimes are often downplayed or just plain ignored.
I know, because it happened to me.
I was seven years old. My parents were getting a divorce. My mother had me all week until the weekend. That was when I went with my father. One day, I came home with bite marks on my upper thighs, very close to “those parts”. My mother asked what had happened. I told her the truth. My mother’s first husband bit me. (I am adopted. At the time he was legally my father, but only legally.) She tried to control herself, because she didn’t want me to think that I did bad. She sent me to play and called her lawyer, Evelyn. Evelyn told my mother that she should take pictures of the bruises. My mother took the pictures. My mother later told me how disgusted she was having to take pictures of a little girl’s groin area.
She gave the pictures to her lawyer. Evelyn brought them with her to the special hearing. She gave the pictures to the judge. He looked at them. He asked my mother’s first husband about the bruises. My mother’s first husband said, “We were play fighting. I got carried away.” The judge accepted it.
The truth was that it was the aftermath of just one of the times my mother’s first husband had raped me. It started when I was four. It ended when I was eight. My mother knew something was wrong. She didn’t know the full extent. She didn’t even know the small extent. But she knew something was wrong. She and Evelyn fought the court about his ability to have custody of me on the weekends. The judge would not relent. He told my mum that if I didn’t go with her first husband, she would be in contempt and put in jail.
I am sorry to speak about this or to bring up bad memories for anyone. I just commented, because I know our system is flawed. For 50 good people in our justice system and our police system, there’s one bad person. And they can screw everything up.
I am so sorry that you experienced this. You deserve better. I hope you are taking it easy on yourself and you life has turned around since.
@@nicoleb695 thank you for your kind words. My life is pretty darn good. I am healthy. I have a fantastic job. And I dedicate time and money to many charities and projects who help victims of sex crimes. I am proud to help anyone I can. I’ve come a long way from that little girl with bite marks on her legs. I want to help others to come a long way, too.
There's nothing to apologize for. You made it obvious what you were going to talk about at the start. Anyone who doesn't want to read it, can stop at the beginning.
If anything your comment will be helpful to others. As humans there's great power in knowing someone else has been through something similar to whatever we have.
Judge is fucking moron. Who play bites a child anyway - on the thigh?
Telling you that I'm sorry this happened feels pretty feeble at the moment. Like reading survivor comments in the 'Monarchy' episode of John's show, I've found unexpected horror. Wishing karma on 'that man' doesn't seem effective, either, but I'm doing it heartily.
Mostly, tho, I'm sending you thanks for posting your experience and gratitude for your survival. To paraphrase Faulkner, you have not merely endured, but have prevailed. Paz y luz.
"Law and Order: Oopsie!" would be a great show... covering all the cases where police and the rest of the system ruined people's lives for no good reason.
That needs to be a Green-lit production, Post Haste!
Start with the 5 black kids, now all grown men, that T Rump campaigned to get life in prison for the assault none of them participated in
Or when the prosecuters knows to 100 percent that they are locking up the wrong person and fighting to make the dna result not going for the trial.
law and disorder
Except it’s not a mistake, sometimes they act this way on purpose.
The Greys Anatomy comparison is really good, as it highlights a blindspot many people have towards media. Sure, a lot of things can be excused/explained/ignored because "it's a show for entertainment" but there is a line between making Doctors more attractive for the small screen and instilling blind trust in a broken system. Also pointing out flaws and dangers to society in shows is not the same as "hating on it".
There is this guy on UA-cam who is a firefighter. He does these skits where he uses green screens to add himself to Tv-shows. Like Lone Star and 911. Pointing out the ridiculousness of their behaviour. It is hilarious but it also makes me unwilling to watch those ridiculous shows.
I'm really glad that Grey's Anatomy is not an accurate representation of hospitals, I'm just imagining a hospital where the doctors are constantly hooking up and blabbering about finding their soulmate while people around them die unattended
That’s a good point. It’s what literature was before TV. Social commentary and criticism is not only necessary, it’s good. Lately, though, the political climate screams for censorship. See John Steinbeck’s The Grapes of Wrath. Still an important piece of social commentary and still very much (maybe more) relevant today than it was in 1939. The more things change, as they say.
Not to mention, people would be significantly more concerned if it was common for doctors to claim all their training came from Grey's Anatomy like cops do about Law and Order
Scrubs, a comedy, did a pretty good job at reflecting the realities of the US Medical system, so its definitely possible for a show to be both entertainment, and at least present a somewhat realistic version of the job. But then again, it seems like comedic shows often outdo their counterparts that take themselves serious, e.g. John Oliver who "is just a comedian" vs Tucker Carlson, one of the most watched "news" segments.
I remember when I was 15 and had just gone through the most traumatic event of my life that left me in a temporary catatonic state. I was in New Mexico (never been before) in a town, all alone and terrified. The cops there picked me up and took me to their station, and one of them proceeded to verbally abuse me, calling me a bitch and saying "what's wrong with you you crazy bitch, you can't do anything," due to my catatonic state. Then they made me watch Keeping up with the Kardashians in an interrogation room for hours, lmao. Cops, just like humanity in general, are often terrible and abusive and power doesn't usually bring out the kindness in people
😢 I hope things got better
I laughed way too hard at "letting your wife watch television could give her notions"
Probably notions about heading into the kitchen and making hubby a sammitch.
Me too 😂
John, you forgot to mention how the show also villainizes Internal affairs officers, especially when (Un)Stabler definitely broke the law.
That's why that show "Happy!" was perfect for Meloni since he was basically how you would've expected Stabler to turn out after being fired.
Oh god that brought back some dormant memories in me. I forgot about that show lmao. I definitely only started watching it for Meloni and it was a fun romp
@@MrZer093 I only just remembered that show earlier this year myself, and yes it was definitely better than I thought it was going to be.
I was hoping someone would mention Happy in these comments !!
I actually stopped watching SVU for years because I got tired of horrible, self-righteous Stabler.
If all the medical shows showed how often insurance is discussed, our health system would change. Thats the power these shows have, which is why they also have an ethical obligation to not white wash reality.
That's another reason I love Scrubs -- there are multiple occasions when they raise this problem, enough for me -- not a US citizen -- to understand the scale of it. When I dug deeper into it I was like "Yep, that's f-ed up"
I’d love to see it portrayed how many treatments are available, and so much more beneficial/successful, that can’t be offered to patients because insurance won’t cover them. When I had spinal fusion the surgeon could have used a new (at the time) device that would have restored mobility and allowed a much better prognosis for pain relief and physical recovery. No difference in the cost of the surgery, surgical center, medication, etc. - just the device. Insurance company wouldn’t even door a peer review. And this was a recognized, FDA approved device not some research situation.
I stopped watching it before it got to this plot point, but didn't Meredith have to do community service bc she committed insurance fraud to help a patient? @@MrNikVadik
Also, Teddy married a guy because he needed insurance.
Isn’t that the entire shtick of New Amsterdam. They’re trying in Chicago med lately
@@beautifullEternalI think New Amsterdam is cheesy as hell, but I appreciate watching it solely because they try to address the social/financial/insurance causes of problems in heathcare. Problem is they usually find solutions too easily, that aren't available in real life - unless we start demanding change
John should do a critique of The Closer (2005 - 2012) and Major Crimes (2012 - 2018). While I enjoyed these 2 series immensely, I did learn two important lessons: 1) Never speak with the police, 2) Always request a lawyer.
Well, he's done it again. The British Funny man made me laugh and still feel sad
he’s the only british person that isn’t going to hell
I absolutely NEED to have him do an episode on the queen
He's got a bad habit of making me go "Ha ha awe man..."
@@brandonayong5823 I wonder if he will, since he's American now.
@@MrGamelover23 Well he likes to talk about the British family and England a lot still. He had 3 episodes on brexit
"Every decision, every arrest is scrutinized." Yes, and they should be.
Every Single One.
There needs to be an office that is staffed with professional law enforcement AND educated citizens just to check if there is any questionable aspect to the investigation and interrogation.
I didn’t report specifically because I knew it would re-traumatize me. You can only hear things like “what were you wearing/had you been drinking/why were you alone” so many times without that self-doubt creeping in. You can do everything “right” and still be harmed, both in regards to the actual assault and in regards to how the police treat you. I’ve always loved L&O and SVU but it truly doesn’t reflect reality :/
@@eileensnow6153 I am so sorry that this happens. It's disgusting.
@@sakurablossoms94 Thank you, and I agree. Hearing other survivors’ stories makes me sick because I hate knowing that it still happens.
@@eileensnow6153 I wish they had better training because they can help but they're mostly incompetent
@@sakurablossoms94 Yeah, it’s like needing a surgeon but the only person around to help is a first-year med student. They want to help but they legitimately don’t know what they’re doing.
I was on a grand jury, and quickly learned the District Attorney office hated Law and Order because, L&O apparently had an endless budget, and the DA did not
@yaliso gioouy they aren’t that highly trained, are human, do their best
Damn, never thought of it that way!
@@UdoShan Don't think of it that way! The DA budgets are fine. How do I know? Put it this way: Public defenders handle an insanely high percentage of criminal cases. They're the backbone of the system. Now go look at what PD offices get compared to DA offices. Look at how many minutes, on average, a New Orleans PD spends with his or her client.
I'm an autistic, disabled, trans guy who was playing a phone game in public park during covid and off duty NPYD beat my face in and broke my nose. Responding NCPD kept threatening me at the scene if I arrested him they'd arrest me too. Kept victim blaming. Kept making me try to prove why I was in a public park on a sunny summer day. Heard him say he would do it again and did nothing about it. I've filed complaints with IAB, CCRB, NCPD, NYS AG, two senators, NC DA, and more - all complaints magically go unanswered or disappear in an effort for them to cover up this attack. I'm still trying to get someone to listen.
Im so sorry
Go to the press tell them your story use the media because that’s the only way you’ll get things to change. You can work with the system because other police officers will defend these bad apples. The whole orchard is spoiled
I've tried. Local newspaper, social media, people like Tizzy - I can't get enough attention for someone to take the story @@JarodFarrant
Sometimes the press has agreements to explicitly not report on this. Often, if anything…
@@placeholderdoe That never happened
Even as a kid, the one thing Law & Order taught me was that prosecutors were shady as hell. Seriously...Sam Waterston's character always did things that even as a kid I knew weren't okay but the show would justify it as "justice" and "to get the bad guy"...even with his character consistently getting angry at the judge when he was told he couldn't partake in illegal practices.
Facts. These prosecutors were super lame. Almost like they felt that breaking law is fine as far as it lets them feel good, nice, and morally superior and do whatever they wanted. Terrible.
And that is INTENTIONAL on the show. Oliver is overdoing the positive portrayal of the police and attorneys. They have plenty of flaws in the original series. They had more originally in the 90s episodes, which were also far, far better written. SVU IS a whitewash.
I mean... That's happened to me in a trial 🤣
Yeah, that kind of writing isn't really presenting cops as "flawed" as much as it is presenting them as being "human" despite being superheroes. The end result of that trope is that they come off even more heroic.
I remember seeing references to it in kid cartoons, and the whole *show* seemed to have an aura of sinister after that.
People who have been sexually assaulted may know to ask for a rape kit to collect valuable evidence, yet how valuable is that evidence when those kits are stacked by the thousands in police back storerooms where they’ve been waiting for years just to be processed. Many police departments don’t routinely process or pay any attention to them, ignoring them entirely.
Yeah... most of those crimes don't get reported. Most of the ones that are reported don't end up with a kit tested. Most the kits tested don't result in an arrest. Most of the arrests don't result in a conviction. So overall, it kind of proves the point that it's a far more widespread problem than most people realize, with a fraction of a fraction of a fraction etc etc. ending up properly resolved.
@@furiousapplesack Yet a lot of men on the internet still act like they are being persecuted and that there is a huge epidemic of false rape accusation. Try telling people like that statistics like these and they won't care. Reality doesn't matter to them.
@@furiousapplesack its all about proof, and simply saying he r me ain’t gonna give you it
It's probably because most cops think it's not a big deal because they've done shit like that before.
@Ashwin Varghese NYPD can afford a 100K robot dog to menace people in low income housing areas. Wait, that's right, we don't know how much the dog cost because they "refused" to tell the public.
So actual lawyer here, watching law and order was what originally got me into law when I was about 14-15. I loved all the shows and SVU was my favorite. I even wanted to be a prosecutor because of how much I loved the show and how much the practical experience I was getting in real life was reinforcing my love for law! Now I am 32, been practicing for about 4 years, I still love being a lawyer, but I am definitely less enthused about being a prosecutor. Nowadays I still love the show but I am painfully aware of how it misrepresents a lot of aspects about both police work and prosecuting cases, and especially with how prominent the BLM movement has become in exposing police misconduct, I don’t think I could act as a prosecutor without perpetuating the problems the system already suffers from! I also can say that I don’t enjoy the show any less than I did before I became a lawyer, but it is always interesting when I see a judge rule on something that I know would never happen in real life! Fascinating stuff law and order can be!
Thank you so much for speaking out on it 👏 also, kudos for following your dream
How many plea bargains did u talk defendants to take?
We alllll know the DA, and prosecutors. Don’t have enough time, to take every case to trial.
Yeah, congrats on following your dream! 👍🏽
@@thathobbitlife thank you, definitely
made the right decisions, but sometimes things happen by chance and that can be a good thing too 😁
@@8arrows so I have not handled any criminal cases on the defense side. I do have plenty of friends from law school who have told me the number is very high. They say that if a client wants to go to trial it’s because they are determined to prove their innocence in spite of the evidence, or because they don’t like the plea deal given to them!
OMG, John Oliver. I couldn’t love you more. Thanks for what you do for all of us.
What exactly is that? Other than, also be a tv show with incorrect information on it. Just like law and order.
Ah!!!!, John! It's been 8 years, but your segments do not get old. What a pleasure to have you for 30 minutes in my life once a week
Damn, eight years. A lot and not enough has changed since then. I remember when I stumbled upon the today show, and it being pretty radical to conservative me. Now it seems like the opposite, but that's because I've changed so much.
I also remember the CSI Effect when that was at it's peak. Which had two effects. 1. People invading crime scenes trying to CSI themselves. 2. People having way way too high expectations of what CSI can actually do.
I remember that coming up in a interview: people telling the police stuff like "and I broke a glass this morning so that's why you might find microscopically small glass shards on me", expecting every piece of their clothing being carefully examined.
I love Criminal Minds, partly for the team and partly because they tend to show that people don't turn into cruel killers for fun and giggles. But I'm aware that profiling isn't the magical bullet any more than crime scene investigation is.
I because people believe in this horseshit. no one believes in reality anymore.
Zoom in, enhance
I remember reading about either one single, real-life case of someone being identified as a criminal based on bite marks on a bologna or ham sandwich, or of this being a hypothetical thing that would work. (I'm about 90 % sure it was the former.) That the teeth marks were "almost like fingerprints". This was about ten years ago. I called bullshit. Yes, okay, the teeth can be unique. But there's the bologna/ham part. I have taken a bite out of too many sandwiches and foods of all sorts to think that is even remotely realistic. If I take a bite from a sandwich, the size of the sandwich as a whole, the hardness of the bread, the firmness and dryness of the bologna/ham, the amount of butter or sauce, and several other factors affect the shape of the bite marks you leave. Hell, even if you just take a bite off a single thin slice of a sausage with very even distribution of fat etc., you don't leave the same imprint every time. Sometimes such a slice just rips in a place you wouldn't expect. Thin meat slices being inside a sandwich makes this all about one hundred times worse.
A few years later I was proven right. "Oh, we know now that this was bullshit. This doesn't work." Well, duh.
PSA: Do get a lawyer. Having been to trial, my experience was that the defense attorney is the only sane non-evil person in the room who is not trying to harm you for its own sake. Doesn't matter if the judge is a psycho, at least there's one person in the room who can speak your native language and talk facts and that just feels amazing.
Defense attorneys are kind of the good Samaritans of the law world. Might not always be the case; this is just anecdotal. But yes, lawyer good. VERY good.
I agree with all you wrote. I had a traffic court misdemeanor charge, first time I got in trouble with the law ever in my life, and immediately went to my friends who have ever needed a GOOD attorney, to ask them who to hire. Went with the first one mentioned. The service I got was amazing. I was scared to death what the outcome of my case would be, but he never had a word of bad news for me (as in, always convinced me everthing would be fine). He was an absolute BEAST at every appearance, as soon as a prosecutor spoke on my case, he would immediately fire back, making an argument out of everything he could, total pitbull. My case couldn't have had a better resolution without him. I'm not scared to say I am anti-police in general, I cooperate when I interact with them, but I always view defense attorneys as the real heroes of the law. You get a GOOD attorney, (you know who to ask), most of the time you'll walk away with the best possible outcome for your situation.
The worst situation is when a defense-attorney is forced to defend a client they know is guilty. They don't have have a choice and can't throw the trial; they MUST do their best to get them off and they often can't turn the case down because SOMEBODY has to do it, the system requires it. That's probably why they don't want to know if their client is guilty or not. 🤦
@@I.____.....__...__ We don't really know if you're guilty, exactly. If you outright confess to your lawyer the general guidance for your lawyer is to withdraw from the case and tell "don't do that."
In a more practical sense, though, even if I suspect you did vaguely the thing the prosecution says you did, I definitely don't know if you're guilty of the specific charges because I don't get to decide that. The jury does.
Instead, my job is to make the prosecutor vigorously prove their allegations in a context with lots of scrutiny from a professional person who knows what to look for, investigate the evidence presented for signs of tampering, interrogate opposing witnesses for signs of bias or motive to testify, and, in some cases, guide the defendant in presenting their side of the story (but that's less necessary than the making the prosecution prove it).
And even if you do have a guilty client, it's good for everyone that the evidence and claims are thoroughly checked in every case. Nobody wants prosecutors and police feeling even more emboldened to play fast and loose with the freedom of others, which is what will happen if we don't defend folks who look bad up front.
@@RustyAShacklefordTRUE THAT !!!
It’s one of the main reason why I want to be a lawyer, I want to ensure that every person has due process, to make sure that people are innocent until proven otherwise.
Internal Affairs is also portrayed as the villain for daring to investigate
I want a damn internal affairs tv show.
Not a 'we work with the cops to solve cases' a fully independent internal affairs Sherlock Holmes who solves cases relating to the police.
@@hooting-ton5215 there's a few. The British "Line of Duty" was pretty popular, but it largely centered on the corruption of the internal affairs department, which was ripped from the headlines at the time.
It's alright.
I did an entire project on the propaganda of dragnet in high school. They were also paying officers to write episodes as well. Dragnet and the phrase thin blue line are also related by the fact that the head of the LAPD had a hand in coining both if that gives you any insight into their philosophy.
Wow
Punks like you, that's my problem.
Hence the term copaganda.
Let's not forget the one LAPD cop who wrote a bunch of TV episodes, including Dragnet, and what society ended up with was Star Trek.
David cay Johnston did some excellent reporting on the LAPD gang life
Talking about the influence of shows like this for years and I am so happy you guys covered this. It is so underestimated how this can shape a society and expectations. Thank you so much.
It’s crazy, but that’s how a reality show host became prez.
“He was allergic to bananas”.. Tremendous writing
It was disgusting that people laughed at that.
Who writes this crap anyway, NBC seems to have low standards for writers
I found it appealing
You would legit risk ending your time on this planet if you interrupt my grandma while she is watching Law & Order. She died in 2016 and we still don’t have the balls to go in and disturb her cause the show is still on.
Tbf, I think the most truthful storyline on L&O SVU is when the ADA prosecutes a group of cops (I think they were 3) that shot a black kid a dozen times and then gets stalked, threatened, harrased and assaulted for the next 3 seasons before leaving the show.
I think it's called the "Terrence Reynolds case" through the series, and the summary is: The cops were looking for a guy with a gun, saw someone that could be him, screamed STOP and inmediately shot him a dozen times. Then, for the entire episode, the ADA gets shunned by all his cop friends because "they thought they were in danger, you can't blame them, for that".
The episode was SURREAL, the way they touched the subject was horrible, but the thing that stood out the most for me was how suddenly ALL THE CHARACTERS DID A 180, their personalities, story arcs, relationships with the ADA and characterizations were GONE. Like, I knew the show was gringo copaganda, but it was truly impressive how they managed to completely forget how to write all of those characters in a second, all for the sake of making cops look pitiful in front of...
*checks notes*
... the consecuences of their own actions.
Edit: I was talking with my mom and she said the kid actually gets shot *32 times*
Those are actually the only episodes of Law and Order I ever watched (I ran into them on the telly), I just quit on it immediately. I remember that the suspect they shot had his hand in his pocket and the cops' argument was that it looked like a gun and could have been one, and it was just so ridiculous to me.
Law and Order has never instilled confidence in the justice system for me. If anything it's done the opposite. It's always been been clear that if anything did happen to me I'd have to be extremely lucky to have a Briscoe, Goren, or Benson to get justice for me.
And more power to you. But not everyone does and/or will view the show this way. It won’t make someone who already knows how corrupt and broken the Justice system is to change their mind. But it does reinforce the beliefs of someone who is unabashedly pro-cop. And it sways people who don’t know much either way into some unconscious biases
@@josawesome1 Completely true. In retrospect, my comment sounds pretty rich coming from me, someone who's never been ignored, let down, or victimized by the justice system.
@@silverloony1170 As John himself might say... 'to your very real credit', you being aware of that is a massive step in the right direction. And that's all anyone calling for justice anywhere wants. For those sitting in positions of privilege to realize that position and hopefully use it to spur change for those not so lucky.
If L&O disillusions you to the justice-system, then you definitely don't want to watch YT channels like Audit the Audit, LackLuster, and James Freeman, those are real life. 😕
Also even in this cop propaganda show they still shoe the devastating consequences of false allegations even without convictions and how cops use violence to get false confessions out of people. Also they often have to luck into stupid criminals otherwise they are powerless to do anything. If you really break it down and compare it to reality.. It ia quite fd up. No confidence.
“He was allergic to bananas” comedians will try for decades to write a better punch line than that and will come up empty handed. Peak unintentional comedy right there.
Not exactly a compliment to the writers if they intended it to be serious, now wouldn't it?
@@ArcturusOTE it WAS serious. That it was also funny is the Easter egg.
@Kayla Sokol That was brilliant.
Yeah
What makes you think it's unintentional? Many of the writers for individual episodes also write comedy. They also do stuff to see how much they can get away with.
"There was no probable cause for an arrest."
"You CREATE probable cause!! You push em' around, you provoke em'!"
Holy shit, how did 'Law & Order' get away with not portraying the guy shouting back there to his subordinate such a ridiculously evil pair of sentences as an archvillain? And, regardless of how the show itself frames that dude's role, how the HELL did so many viewers not see anything wrong with that behavior?
Because most of us put ourselves automatically in savior mode. If you go through something in real life that takes away your trust in system you can see other side and can no longer do that.
Because the person they are talking about is undeniably a bad guy. Easy to justify when you know you’re dealing with a certified POS
narrative framing is a helluva drug. people like good guys doing bad things to deserving people in the name of Justice.
You know, the irony of Ice-T, writer of such songs as Cop Killer, No Lives Matter and Black Hoodie, being involved in one of the most well-known copaganda franchises in existence hadn't previously occurred to me.
Money matters more than the message to some people, and they don't seem to realize the harm that does to their message.
Have you seen his car insurance commercials? IT is the biggest sellout you’ll ever meet
He stated that it's because he got the chance to portray a cop the way he'd like the real police to be.
Ice-T is an MK-Ultra puppet listen to his interviews when he was younger talking about his time in the army
Off the cuff, let's see if I can list the timeline in the correct order;
When iced tea released Cop Killa someone else suggested that he wear the uniform for the cover. The reaction was scandal just because of the *implication* (obviously because the title the conclusion drawn for why he would have the uniform on was incredibly dark and also an intensely powerful statement at the time.)
It wasn't long after that that he actually got his first acting gig (I believe ever but definitely the first significant one) in 'Tank Girl' of all things - and while there are more details to it, the backstory of the character he plays is he was a cop and it's tremendously prevalent in demeanor and performance. - I think the reason they chose to have him take that role was actually meant to be a little bit tongue-in-cheek at the time. (A bit similar to having Laurence Fishburne do a promotion for batteries or RuPaul being 'cured' and teaching heterosexuality and masculinity in "But I'm a Cheerleader" when you know the outside context of the figure the audience understands it's a bit more of a meta joke.)
While I'm extremely ACAB and I think a lot of people have forgotten about episodes of the original and SVU that not only aged like milk but we're just never good in general when they came out; from premise to writing and execution beginning to end I *do* think that in fairness:
T's the character, story lines (especially multi episode ones) and general purpose brought in a lot more nuanced and diversity in general both to perspectives, stereotypes, socio-economic status ect than fan favorite Detective Toxic Masculinity *ever* did (with the writers constantly scrambling to find excuses for why it was okay for him to constantly fly off the handle when canonically not acceptable and the 'I have young daughters' projection was no longer viable.)
Then again, I watched the show when it debuted and haven't caught anything unless I was in a medical environment since the first term of the Obama administration so things could have drastically changed.
TLDR; I could give examples of how the character he played had several storylines where it was understood that for some people strict adherence to the law wasn't viable and really not worth "being a cop" to - but I think the tremendous worship and *literal cheering* I'd hear when Stabler was prepared to end a sleeping suspect in their home is *far* more problematic and more deserving of our concern and criticism.
The part where cops are watching L&O to get a rudimentary clue what to do in certain situations perfectly demonstrates that 21 weeks of training just does not cut it in a modern society.
It's also complete bullshit. None of these people are cops or have been through the training. Therefore, they don't know the job.
At least they are trying.
is that right ? what about paid sabbatical after every minority orchestrated or not purge profile harras intimidate frame abuse extort molest shackle excessive force incarcerate ... you got the gist ?
@@xhagast that’s not enough
100% Agreed you should need a degree to be a cop. You need one to be a lawyer, or a doctor, why the f*ck not to be a gun weilding enforcer faced countless difficult and life threatening scenarios. In other countries, you go to college, and learn a fair amount about the actual laws, and human psychology, which is common sense
Brilliant!!! I am an instructor at a local community college, this is now part of my day 1 welcome to class lecture. Thank you John Oliver!
I’m happy you spread John Oliver vids for others to see
Greendale or City?
The Dick Wolf misleads had me rolling 🤣
"Is it hot? Reasonable people can disagree." Just priceless.
Whoever the musical director is that made their theme song into a law and order outro, you are a genius and I love it
I think you may have missed one of the more pernicious and often unrealized effects of Law & Order. In those 3% of cases that do go to trial, members of the jury can have very warped perceptions of what to expect during a trial, and what to expect in the way of evidence. Juries can become deadlocked over what some jurors may think (based on Law & Order) is necessary evidence. The order part of the show uses a wide variety of tropes and tricks that just aren't realistic. The prosecution isn't going to trick the defendant into confessing in open court during cross-examination; there may not be DNA evidence, hair or fiber evidence, or whatever the forensic soup of the day is, for each crime. Alternately, one piece of evidence that is almost always the slam dunk in the prosecution's favor on the show may lead jurors to feel that they don't need to consider any other facts because of one circumstantial piece of evidence. It's a compelling police procedural drama but that's just not what an average day in court is going to be for anyone.
You are wrong. Just recently, as Alex Jones was on the witness stand, he was called out on his own emails and text messages, that his legal team had sent to the Plaintiff lawyer representing the first family to file suit against Jones, in Texas. The look on Jone's face, as the Plaintiff attorney put up on a screen, his own emails and texts as exhibits, as Jones realized he was caught red handed lying in court, it was priceless. It does happen, just not often.
@@DK-zu6tt It's not the norm. You have to find some cases with a very specific mix of clowns, incompetents, and idiots. Which, granted, you've got in that case.
There's an actual thing prosecutors call the "CSI Effect", where juries have unrealistic expectations for evidence.
That would play against the police side though.
I thought he talked about that in a previous episode.
All my life, my dad has loved Law and Order. When I was beginning to think about college and wanted to go into law, I began watching the show so I would know what things they were doing wrong so I would never ever do them.
Jerry Orbach was the ultimate Best! His deadpan delivery of the worst-funniest punch lines and comebacks is legendary!
I served on a jury for a domestic assault case when I was 19, and during the process where the lawyers vet the jury a little bit, one of them asked me if I felt like police shows like Law and Order were realistic. I said no, and he asked me why. I wasn't sure how to respond to that question right away because there's just *so much* that isn't realistic and it would be insane to think that it was. I responded with that things move too quickly, there's procedures for everything, and real life isn't written for TV.
Hearing that guy say that the show was very similar to the real life thing was just baffling to me.
0:44 OMFG I can only imagine how many takes were needed for both these women to deadpan these lines! If they did manage to pull it off in one take, they both deserve ALL THE EMMYS IN EXISTENCE!
the wife is smiling and trying not to laugh at the start
@@alexandramjaatvedt413 no
When the original LAW & ORDER was brought back - Wolf had also been working on a new L&O called FOR THE DEFENCE, which would have looked at cases from the side of defence attorneys, which I’d love to see done someday.
If I had a dollar for every time the phrase, "a few bad apples" was applied to police brutality and corruption I could pay my medical bills and trauma therapy for the rest of my years.
Or 50¢ for every bad cop.
Problem with that bad apple thing is its only half the quote
You'd probably have money left over to pay the medical bills of everyone you know too.
@@Llynnyia If you interpret "one bad apple spoils the barrel" to mean that apple farmers will throw out an entire barrel if they find one bad apple in it, then it makes sense. But what that saying really means is that any bad apples need to be removed ASAP, or else their rot will spread, thus making the rest of the apples in that barrel bad.
@@spongeintheshoe Well, the fact that the system seems to be pretty bent on protecting the bad apples from being removed suggests that the rot has already done a lott of spreading...
Honestly, knew the concept of this episode before it began. I remember watching a few years back and being really unsettled how Stabler is painted as the guy who breaks the rules but all's well that ends well. He literally tortures people, and its painted as a good things because he gets the criminal.
There's also the underlying aspect of "it's okay to beat the shit out of a suspect because both the writers and audience know he's guilty"
The older I get, the more cringy Stabler becomes.
I never got the impression that you were meant to sympathize with everything that he did. It was always a very 'he who fights monsters' thing.
It's the glorification of it that gets me.
If a cop show wanted to show a cop beating a suspect -- well that happens.
It's the framing of it as a good thing or "excusable" that has rotted the brains of too many viewers/
@@angiki9988 you really going to tell me that Stabler isn't framed as a hero on that show?
When I did Mock Trial as a 16 year old and had to learn courtroom etiquette - with actual DA's and Judges giving instructions - I learned very quickly how off Law & Order was at portraying the Law
@Tlotlo Thari damn the bots are in full force today
The biggest coincidence just happened I was watching this clip from the show, got up to use the restroom, and walked by the living room where my mother was watching the Adam Driver episode.
If you're afraid to be held accountable for your actions then I want you to be held accountable
or.... your mom just watches the Adam Driver episode over and over. I'm sure that's a thing out there.
Shades of when the DOD had to ask the producers of “24” to stop glamorizing torture because troops were waaaaay too enthusiastic about mimicking their hero Jack Bauer in Iraq and Afghanistan.
I'd never heard that. So f***ed up. MIC propaganda run amok.
It’s a just a fucking show. Sick of politicians or anyone blaming tv and video games.
Funny how they depict cops deeply caring about getting justice, bc basically every experience I've had with them was them trying to figure out how not to make the situation their problem or being threatening.
Literally gotten ignored more than once for reporting a robbery that happened to me that I find out later wasn't even looked at past my initial report. It was basically left in pending status.
I had a fender bender situation and once insisted they took a report so I wouldn't be blamed for the crash and when I called to the precinct for the report I found out the cop pretended to write the report and then tossed it and there was no record except a few scribbled off hand notes.
Or they've just yelled at me for even interacting with them. Once when my dad's apartment was on fire (an accident caused by a lit candle my dad forgot to put out) and he was too far away to get there ATM so as a teenager I had to go see what was happening, and the cops got called to investigate before we knew the cause.
The cop asked who's apartment it was when I got there and I said mine, and then he came back a few minutes later and started yelling at and berating me saying that it was my dad's not mine when he looked it up.
I was a kid, I lived there, I was just answering and in shock from the situation. And then after the cop fucks off and I don't think we ever heard from him again. I was a kid, I was just answering bc I lived there and my dad wasn't home.
Had another situation that a cop tried to trick me into confessing I caused a car crash that I happened to have witnessed (and I was an even younger kid then) and was stupid enough to introduce myself and give a statement bc I still thought cops were the good guys.
I was also a teenager then and the cops were pressuring me into saying things I didn't mean. They just wanted to pin it on someone so they wouldn't have to investigate and do their damn job and I was almost liable for thousands of dollars while in High School.
I have a lot of stories of cops hating doing their job and trying whatever they can to avoid work or do anything noble, and I have a relatively decent experience with them compared to so many.
I have friends who were assaulted and raped and the cops immediately would start trying to blame the victim and antagonize them to "admit" they were making it up so the case would be dropped.
It always makes me roll my eyes in shows when it makes cops look like they care bc I have maybe seen it once in person, and that felt like the outlier (a cop actually helped me find a friend who was trying to commit suicide and I appreciate him doing that).
But I and most people I know have little to no good experience with them (and not when we were doing any crimes but needed them to help with things happening to us).
I’m sorry you had to go through that, hope you called out those cops they need to be fired I hope they do someday.
@@Jarod-vg9wq I didn't because it's scary to do that. Most of these were before the culture as a whole started to acknowledge how awful they are and I didn't want to catch more of their ire than I was just asking them to do their job or be decent human beings.
Jfc. I'm a millennial and I had *vaguely* heard of the Abner Louima incident prior to this. I looked it up tonight and finished up this show literally in tears. Law enforcement wants cases like that to be outliers. Thing is, I think we'd all be horrified if we knew the truth of how often they abuse their power and hurt the most vulnerable among us.
Yeah, the Abner Louima incident is notable mainly because it was so far over the line that _other cops_ stepped in to stop it. That's an incredibly high bar.
Someone mentioned that it's not like there is more police brutality now, it's just that there are more cameras.
I was looking for this comment, had no idea how to spell his name. I'm a millennial and I have *never* heard of it, and I try to pay attention to this sort of thing. but to be honest, it's getting hard to keep up with all the police brutality/shooting cases against black individuals. I'm definitely going to look into it now.
@@paulallen3753 Be ready to be HORRIFIED.
I’m surprised they’re never called out their “a few bad apples” tapping point. The full saying is “one bad apple spoils the bunch” which is exactly the point that critics of the police are trying to make.
I grew up on Law & Order, especially SVU. This was back in the early 2000's, so I often watched with my mom, and it often started conversations that were important to have. Sometimes after episodes, my mom would turn to me and say something like "you know if [event from episode] ever happens to you, you should [appropriate response to the event], right?" Or she would check in and make sure I understood what a character did was the wrong thing to do. You know, we'd talk about what to do if assaulted or if a stranger wants to meet you in a secluded place or a guy is abusive. Important things that young girls need to know.
I can't even fathom thinking I should learn my profession from a tv show, though. Idk.. I was taught young that a tv show is not reality. The characters are made up for the purpose of telling a story that communicates a particular message or feeling. It's to entertain, not necessarily to portray the real world. And that's what I loved about them. Anything could happen. Giant man-eating snakes, zombies, rich white people going to jail when they commit a crime... I knew what happened on the show wasn't representative of reality. Hec, the trial procedures were complete fiction! But after spending all day in the real world, it was nice to watch a universe where there was some justice in the justice system, where the bad guys don't always go free, where someone in the legal system genuinely fought and cared for the victims, where woman got justice against abusers and r*p***. It's a nice fantasy world to escape to when reality is overwhelming, and that's all it should be. People shouldn't be learning to do their jobs from fiction. Fiction is great for aiding the teacher, but it shouldn't BE the teacher.
My gods, the writers are on point. Thank you for "bananaphylactic shock" of all things. Great show.
if you havent seen it check the comment chain that is basicly commidy gold besides the first 2 comments which are spam
I applaud your use or creation of the word "bananaphylactic shock." Well done.
There was a "full circle" moment with defense attorneys where Stabler's own daughter got caught by NYPD on a DUI. Stabler ends up hiring that female black attorney that's always making the prosecutors and the cops jobs difficult.
In this case, she just shrugged off the negative vibes, and said she's there to do her job and that is to represent her clients the best she can. During court, she did go to bat for the family by saying there's no flight risk for the defendant.. her father is a Manhattan SVU detective of 17 years, with strong ties to the community.
I remember that episode. I loved how they threw massive shade at Stabler for it, especially by his wife. It’s just a shame that it never really gave him a change of heart or anything and he was back to his usual “I would be in jail or at least unable to work anything other than a menial low wage job 3 months at a time in any just society” shtick
@@MrZer093 why would stabler need a change of heart ?
@@Jackholiday1025 Because Stabler beats a confession out of someone almost once an episode.
The one line I always remember that aged like milk especially in recent times is delivered by Olivia Benson. “I got the biggest gang backing me up. The nypd.” Oof, shits pretty on the nose with all the police crime done with no repercussions due to other police looking out for them.
It also doesn't help that there are actually gangs run by PDs, notably the ones in California
Cops are the biggest gang in every city. Real life cops have said that from coast to coast.
Rudyard Kipling said almost 150 years back - the police is just another gang of bandits. The good part about them is they tolerate no competition.
Bananaphylactic shock...one of your all-time best lines...on so many levels. Bravo!
Older generations: "Don't believe everything you see on TV."
Also older generations: "I've watched all the seasons of L&O. I'm practically an attorney."
My mother, a physician, has said that verbatim. It’s unreal.
Seriously this so much. Capitalism and marketing really pulled an easy one over on multiple generations
Another take: Don't believe everything you read on the internet
MAGA Q' I saw on the internet some stuff, the MSM is lying to us
@@johnanderson9305 And mainly the reason to them that the msm is "lying" is because its things they don't want to hear.
Boomers were the first material generation
I've been watching Scrubs lately and aside from it still... mooooostly holding up it's also surprising how many hard topics it covers, from Kelso writing off patients who don't have insurance or submitting patients with great insurance for more and more tests, to the grief and burnout of connections made with patients who don't make it
Check out sirens.
It is EMS scrubs.
I think Scrubs succeeds alot because of how often patients die, that's weird to say but honestly it helps ground the series when not every case is a freaking House episode. Or when you get shots of the doctors looking exhausted and overworked.
I'm reminded of a subtext in so many cop shows, and many specifically set in NYC, going back several decades, about the single good cop working amongst cops that are "on the take" (i.e. dirty cops). What I got from that as a middle class white kid was that the cops as a whole were severely corrupt and that there were individual cops that were good.
I spent a lot of time as a child yelling about how internal investigations were just doing their jobs and why weren’t other cops helping make the police office a better place
It's not even just Law & Order. It makes you wonder the collective effect of all other crime and police shows on TV and how they make people afraid of things that don't happen nearly as often as they think
I think it depends on the genre for the show IMO. More comedy based cop shows like B99 or Psych they show typically besides their core group (who usually are also bad examples of cops even if they're effective) are either incompetent, corrupt, or evil. Where shows like CSI will literally do episodes where cops will straight up just shoot and kill people they think are bad and turns out they arent and then they defend why that's ok or just straight up ignore they profiled and killed a person while painting a fake picture of the superpowers that are the police force.
Just a sign of our times. I'm almost 60 yrs old and I've never felt this Nation was so divided as it is now. Not that it was perfect, but today we all seem to live in fear. That's the best way to control a population, just think of the Patriot Act.. It was supposed to be for a very limited time and yet it's still here. Doesn't seem like we're any safer, but our privacy has all but disappeared. Hmmm...
or the flip side of that, they make people resist any progress toward ACTUAL solutions. Get on any local Nextdoor page around the Floyd days and every single discussion about refocusing public funding from violent policing was met with a resounding chorus of "if we reduce police spending who will stop all the crimes???"
You cop haters would be the first one begging for their help when your home gets invaded.
@@sha7303 I did actually call the cops once when someone came into my office and held it up trying to kidnap his ex. The police wouldn’t do anything until they had 18 cop cars around to storm a now empty building with riot gear, stuck guns in my and coworkers faces, about 10 stood around doing nothing for 2 hours besides “look busy” you know besides constantly go over to the ex gf the shooter was trying to kill/kidnap and repeatedly blame her for it happening/accuse her of working with the shooter. So congrats cop hater here who called the cops and was only shown why cops suck
I love SVU but always realize that the show is fiction. I can say the one thing I have learned from the show is NEVER talk to the police without a lawyer because law enforcement will lie to get you to say something you shouldn't.
This i never knew people took this show that seriously.
And when you go to report a sexual assault, there is no Olivia Benson compassionately taking your story.
The United States is a strange place where uniformed police officers have no duty to protect life and are allowed to lie in the course of an investigation to extract confessions.
As a long time SVU fan, I’ve been struggling with this in recent years. On one hand, it’s incredibly problematic in its pro-police stance but, on the other hand, it’s so nice to get to experience the fantasy that is people generally believing victims of rape.
And doing something about it most weeks. But I've always watched the Law and Order series and other cop shows like NYPD Blue (but I had to stop with the Chicago show - it was too much) knowing they, like any action movie, are entertaining escapism. That Ice-T and Richard Belzer are/were on SVU only made that particular show that much more entertaining for me. Ice-T who performed the song "Cop Killer" with his band Body Count - the absurdity is most entertaining.
I made a critical mistake as a teen when I urged my friend to talk with the local SVU team after being r@ped. I thought they would do good, but instead my friend was left even more traumatized than before talking with them, told by the police that they lied, and an officer even stalked them.
I love the idea of a system that actually believes survivors, but the harm that shows like this cause is immense. Yes, this is a burden I carry, both as someone who urged another survivor to report, but also as a survivor myself.
How is it problematic in its pro police stance ?
From a post conviction criminal defense attorney, thank you so much for telling the truth so well, John. 💜
I died when he talked about Stabler being UNSTABLE AF!
Matthew Modine (I can’t remember the chracter’s name) also said the same thing in the episode where Stabler spit at him. I remember the ending of that episode…Stabler yelled and punched his locker a few times.