I really think Wildstar had a good direction with more skill shot directed combat. I would hope they go with these style because its unappreciated. This can fit closely to wide array of playstyles and make the gameplay loop fun.
@ not the iso camera angle, just the abilities and the way they play. Think of team fighting against Baron as a dungeon boss but obviously more health and boss abilities. That’s what I want from an mmo from riot.
V Rising has pretty nice action combat. WASD movement, fluent and well telegraphed attacks, counters and blocks, works both in top-down view and third-person. And it works well both in PvE and PvP. Actually, V Rising PvE combat is very exciting, because all mobs move a lot and perform interesting attacks, so the combat is never stationary.
@@JipookiLost Ark combat has the most brain dead combat rotations. League should honestly be the bar. Pretty much all combat systems in mmos are garbage.
Yeah and their ideas on healing in combat are also very innovative and good. If there's a combat system I want to see in an mmo it's battlerite/v-rising one's, Riot idea of action combat feel immature in comparison.
Total sidebar: ESO is an underrated MMORPG. If the combat was better, that game would be the most popular MMO out there, IMHO, because everything else is super immersive.
I think ESO has probably one of the most nice combat systems, swamping weapons to allow for a secondary skill slot based on your weapon is nice. I thought Throne of Liberty would feel the same but its not as good, I remember many PVP days in ESO being a nightblade Dagger/bow build just having crazy 1v1's and group fights. BDO has a such fun combat system cause its so fast pace just overall shitty offline grinding.
they can learn from POE2 or Guildwars2 if you want to make your combat enjoyable, just make all the abilities useful and interacts to each other so that you can do some satisfying combos or combinations
Imo the most fun combat, no matter the genre, is always movement based. Aoe and support focused systems can cause significant powercreep if they're the primary focus, but as long as combat feels like a fluid dance around the field then it feels satisfying. I'd love to see both conventional things like grapple hooks but also unconventional things like portals and rocket packs and even physically grappling enemies like dragon's dogma 2 to add a more creative axis to a battlefield. I'd also love to see abilities that can directly combo with another class' abilities like the combos in marvel rivals to keep things relatively fresh while you're playing with others.
Sounds like a mammoth task to make each individual class have these unique mechanics. Imagine putting LoL's combat in a 3D environment like Dragon's Dogma. No universal dodging but plenty of movement and then there's vertical movement like grapples and short flying and works well with controller. Heals remain unsloved though. But in New World, there's a whole dedicated section in the settings for healing functions from AoEs to ally lock ons. Maybe they could just do that.
Powercreep is inevitable with anything that has constant updates, that's just the nature of it, even for singleplayer stuff... It will happen with movement too, there will be a teleport on less cooldown or a jump that doesn't need los, bamm you already powercrept your movement based balance....
Would be cool if you could secure some interviews at some point when Riot is willing to share more so you can cement yourself as a reliable source of info on riots mmo (moreso than you already are)
This. Not a lot of people knew, but Dragon Nest combat system was so ahead of its time. There were values you need to be aware of, from staggers to aerial juggles. Even Black Desert pales in comparison.
Some Iconic characters that heal in lol - Soraka, (trade healers HP for Hp on ally, Combat moves are weak but heal the healer). Taric (armour enchangement andd to need to tether to your target, auto attack to reduce the cool down of your abilities) Senna (shoots guns and needs to collateral their team member to make it heal.) But then there is shielding which is temporary heals that require more skill to time the attack. Essentially they always make combat gameplay for supports that optimises their healing so they dont just afk aura heal
Plunderstorm guy going to Riot R&D a coincidence? I DON'T THINK SO Ok I typed this comment and then literally ten seconds later you said it in the video but I'm leaving it haha. Plunderstorm felt like such a good proof of concept, and they're so good at stuff like skillshots that I think they've got the chops to make a skillshot-y mmo feel so, so good.
While watching Arcane right now I can tell that their world has the same potential wacraft had for their mmo. I am so hyped for riots mmo and I hope they don't mess it up and lead us into a new era of mmos.
THANK YOU for talking about healing in Action combat. It's the biggest flaw imo as a healer main. But I'm absolutely for action combat still. That wildstar healing looks very interesting with mouseover party healing with action combat. That would work
I don't care if people think the game is good or bad I am 100% committing myself to it full time just for the story and lore. The idea of exploring Runetera from a third person view is worth it.
Healing is terrible in action combat. Dungeons and raids devolve into all players being in a ball or else they don't get heals. But besides healing I do prefer action combat
@@Mars-et8vc I think it would be worth looking into how mobas do healing an maybe trying to innovate. Tab targeting isn't great but healing in MMOs tends to suck in action combat
I haven't tried heals yet but New World has a dedicated section in the settings to tweak how you want heals to function from AOEs to targetting and ally lock on. I also enjoyed the more grounded pacing and scale of it compared to the over the top and visually unintelligible nature of Black Desert. Amd it's easy to pick up but has plenty of skill expression. If only it had much more to offer than that. But I'd say if RIOT could improve on the fundamentals of NW's combat like say add a bunch more skills, removed lock on, added some cancels/feints, and a whole gameplay tweak dedicated for heals it feels to me like it could have some potential that way.
I totally agree with you about league being the foundation for the mmo gameplay wise. I lowkey feel like the recent game modes they have added have been proof of concept for core mechanics. Ie. the bullet hell game mode for boss/raid mechanics and the intensity of them. I think the closest comparison would be similar to lost ark.
there is an MMO coming out soon called Corepunk which looks like a MOBA (same look as LoL or Dota, same movement, and your character is like a hero from one of these games with 4 or so abilities) but the world is more like early world of warcraft. Think it's in early access pretty soon, definitely looks promising if they can stick the landing
uhm Lost Ark combat?? Lost ark with better progression system, endgame dungeons/content in general and with the storyline of runeterra it would just be successful no matter what.
@@lunafatale9786 For me its quite the opposite. Maybe riot can do something like throne and liberty and have both 3rd person and isometric as options but I'm pretty sure it will be isometric.
I agree that a hybrid of action and tab target makes the best combat system. You actually *don't* want to fully get rid of tab-target because it allows for a huge variety of abilities that simply aren't possible (or are extremely clunky to pull off) without it. Pure action is a little too zug zug/braindead for my tastes, you need the tab target portion of the system for the fights to have more complexity
It has strong bones and feels great but lacks polish and more options. Also there's a whole dedicated section in the settings for healing function so that's a plus. If they can improve on that system and iron out it's wrinkles it could have massive potential.
i think mmos need to step away from mmo combat, because it is so dated and ass. no skill expression, just press numbers in order. start implementing stuff from fighting games, shooter games, and other genres.
Imagine the first time walking through Damacia aka the upgraded Stromwind and the first time going through Noxus aka the upgraded Orgimar that alone will have me sink 1000+ hours common Riot lets goooo
imo BnS had the best mmorpg combat overall getting rid of the role trifecta was like taking off shackles youve used all your life so you didnt know how confortable it was to not have them which also made role shortages non existent
I'd really like an mmorpg from the first person perspective personally. Like destiny, but possibly with more work going into melee combat and differing playstyles besides GUN.
@@jakubpelikan2393"Lost Ark A free-to-play MMO ARPG set in a vast, vibrant world with thrilling fights, endless customization, and endless adventure." Literally the first thing that comes up after googling lost ark, directly from their website. Its also something massively multiplayer and online. It might not fit the thing you want MMOs to be but it is very much and MMO
Definitely needs to be action combat with more skill expression if they want it to succeed. I predict it will be something similar to games like Diablo 4, Last Epoch, Poe 2 gameplay wise but with the riot feel and polish to it. Not exactly like those arpgs gameplay wise just similar you won't be able to walk into a room and blow the entire screen up shit like that but more like what you can do with champions in league of legends but you're able to build your character and customize your skills. That's what it'll end up being like imo.
Riot has a history of taking popular concepts and revolutionizing them. Dota to League and Counterstrike to Valorant. I don't want to get my hopes too high, but I trust Riot to make something really special here. Could even dethrone the great WoW.
I completely get the comment about AoE healing, though my example is GW2. Dropping AoEs to outheal DPS to the party is *so boring*. It can work better for overworld content since everyone is all over the place, possibly getting downed by various attacks from a tough event boss, but instanced content isn't great. The real struggle for action combat though, is figuring out how to make it reactive and freeform. If Riot has fancy action combat but you still have to follow a rotation, they messed up.
couldn't the just adopt the healing systems in league. Some healers have conditionals heals like soraka Q heals herself if she hits a target with that ability, soraka also has a targeted heal on her W that heals who ever she chooses for a set amount sacrificing her own hp, then her ultimate heals her whole team (party) for a flat amount. Then you have someone like Janna whose ultimate makes her channel creating a healing field in which she cannot move unless to cancel the field (which I find similar to Elden ring heals, when you are stood still channel and can create a healing aura which can heal anyone that comes close to you). There are plenty of other examples who how you can approach healing in an action combat world from league, support shielding as well is super interesting if you look at league, champion abilities like Renata E, Karma E (as well as Karma R>E) as well as other rebuffs like Lulu's polymorphism., other champions roots, stuns and slows. Just by taking a inspiration from their game they can find so many interesting ways to approach the support class imo
They could! Though some stuff would need reworks as the game is balanced mechanically around lanes and towers / objectives. Focusing on group fights and pve could change things but keep leagues over vibe.
Action combat is the only form of combat that's engaging enough for a competitive scene. My socks are wiggling to fly off once we get to see what the pvp will be like.
as a heal in wow , you sit back and watch life bars , as a tank in wow you sit in front and watch aggro bars ( well not now anymore but in the past it was that ) , finding a way to make those interesting to play is kinda hard imo
@@TheMycelle eh depends what version of wow you're playing. In the newer versions they've definitely made healing a lot more active and you don't just sit and watch bars
@@oheyspun personally quit the game cus it was getting a bit toxic, but honestly it was really fun doing group content in both pvp and pve, also with clartity not being the worst, you could easily vod review to improve and unless you were doing 100v100, its also extremely readable in fight themselfs IMO, did not expect to get a response so fast lmaoo
I think its insane how you have doezens of videos on a game that there is virtually 0 information on. But you know what? I dig it. hopefully you can help shape the scene! As an avid MMO fan waiting for the next best thing to dump 10+ years into... I feel Riot is the only hope.
BDO combat was immediately satisfying! It feels so good. But ofc, the clunky movement and desync turns me off. I wish BDO was a good game, so i could play it, but i always just do combat in trial mode and then leave the game :D I love the combat there.
BDO's combat is perfect if there was no desync issues. It's so satisfying and fun and feels immediately fun and stays so for thousands of hours. As some one who has put dozens of thousands of hours and decades into every MMO you can think of, BDO combat is the most fun and satisfying, if only the servers and netcode were good and the game had real content.
Thats the issue with action combat like bdo... Large scale will just not work and thats probably the reason why you wont see more mmos with action combat like bdo. Netcode is just a bitch.
If you never checked out for yourself before - look up Dragon Nest. The game back in a day before problems with connectivity and powercreep of abilities was phenomenal in the combat mechanics department. It allowed insane (especially for MMO) depth of the players skill levels. Which is uterly surprising considering what the game was in everything else (like, graphics, style, monetization, gameplay loop etc). You wouldnt expect such actually great combat gameplay from such a game., Aaand btw you're right about the heal thing in action combat, and the healers in this game weren't purely buff-heal bots. I think there's some underliying problems of programming such thing on large scale (in dragon nest party was limited to 8 or 16 at max in dungeon) with open world etc, as it never was replicated or done the similar way in any other MMO i saw, but DN was comparetevly super small team to the resources of tencent and riot.
@@oheyspun oh I'm not sure if it's still alive somewere to try it out, and also the main attractor for me was the feel of the combat in PvP, something you'd go on like levels 40-50 with skills unlocked etc. And everything else easily would feel pretty bad compared to big mmos like guild wars 2 or black desert. It's just different type of game. I suggest just to search the info and mb watch some old videos of pvp things from there. But I do believe DN somehow hit something incredible with more on classic fantasy magic rpg + fighting, with "escapes", "saves", "super armor", i-frames etc with their combat system.
as a MMORPG player who spent many times in WOW and climb in high lvl and high end game I had to say WOW system for me is most satisfying system in all MMORPG games so it means first of all game most be tab target and healing side in wow in mostly get helped from some addons but also blizzard system itself providing it in weaker type is Mouseover healing in party or raid frame its ez satisfying and make class designers hand open for many changes in future
Look if we wanted to play WoW we would. Just a reminder the old version of the MMO was implied to be a WoW clone which is why they reset in the first place most likely. Also WoW's average player is still like 40 so I don't think Riot is trying to have an audience that averages 40
@@cynthiahembree3957 making MMORPG is not that simple thats why many mega company just keep failing on mmorpg projects even riot cant even make a perfect mmorpg and release it before 2028 “hopefully” the problem is gamers dont know whats the exact process of making mmorpg new engine and new combat system means lots of bugs and anomaly’s if so choose and another new world exp or just a simple old school fun to play game
I once trusted Riot with these kinds of passion projects but seeing how greedy monetization schemes, lackluster content updates and horrible quality control have completey taken over at this point, chances are very low that this game will be good or actually be released at all. We all hope for a saviour in the MMO genre but let´s be honest, Riot won´t do it.
Im hyped for LoL mmo if it’s arcane show cell shadow for graphics Side note: If @enshrouded found a way to become an mmo on its engine…it would be game over for everyone else.
WOW has the most well rounded combat, idk why none of these videos talk about it. If an mmo is made and it doesnt have wow style combat, it will fail, definitely.
Not just combat, but MOVEMENT ... the WoW engine gives crisp, controlled, very tight feeling MOVEMENT... other MMOs feel "floaty" or " weighed down by weird disjointed inertial mechanics and animations". The ONLY MMO that came even close to correct MOVEMENT that WoW provided was Wildstar. ... ALL of the rest fall short.... GuildWars 2, Final Fantasy... ALL of them are clunky BS and I couldn't get past it... Also... overuse of Spell Effects like in Tower of Fantasy - Genjin Impact style Asian games.... can't do them... to much BS going on.
What Riot DONT know is, they will not have the interests from the majority of the MMORPG masses. You cannot change a tradition that was already established and enjoyed. Some people that find out that type of play style, either get used too it or dont play that particular game or genre. I doubt Riot will change how MMORPGs. You have a name Riot, we get it, not alot of people respect Riot outside of the Arcane series. Ive been with Riot since 2012 and I know where their hearts lye. It aint for the community. Thats for sure. 2024 dont change anything.
When you said "sure its not WASD or 3rd person." like thats the pinnacle of action economy XD. Thre is a reason smite didn't over take lol. WASD/3rd person have worse combat than lol click to move top down.
TERA Online is still undefeated and their combat system is from 2008. Defeating #1 is what Riot should go for. Or at least make the combat system as good as TERAs. Comment section proves they have no clue what they are talking about, and the video wasn't good either. I don't mean it in a bad way. People simply don't know any better or they go for their favorite MMORPGs instead of which game has the better combat. Black Desert which is #2 all-time isn't mentioned much either. And no GW2 is not an action combat game, neither is New World, WoW etc. Lost Ark you can say is an action combat game, together with TERA and Black Desert but thats pretty much it.
MMO-RPG's are simply for tab targeting, there's no need to reinvent the wheel and without a doubt they will fail at doing so just like everyone else before them. I can only see a vast open world WASD tab target MMO with splashes of free action combat, skillshot functions and very slight Shooter/FPS mechanics sprinkled on it doing well for an actual next gen MMO-RPG, anything more or too less is bound for failure.
I always thought souls like or monster hunter combat would be fun for an mmo, but they rarely get chosen because it is too skill expressive and can easily scare away casual audiences.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Come join the discussion over on discord! discord.gg/HEZHyKV
I really think Wildstar had a good direction with more skill shot directed combat. I would hope they go with these style because its unappreciated. This can fit closely to wide array of playstyles and make the gameplay loop fun.
I really don’t understand why they wouldn’t start for a baseline in combat, using league of legends style combat. It’s extremely satisfying.
U mean iso? It would be an action RPG if that's the case.
@ not the iso camera angle, just the abilities and the way they play. Think of team fighting against Baron as a dungeon boss but obviously more health and boss abilities. That’s what I want from an mmo from riot.
V Rising has pretty nice action combat. WASD movement, fluent and well telegraphed attacks, counters and blocks, works both in top-down view and third-person.
And it works well both in PvE and PvP. Actually, V Rising PvE combat is very exciting, because all mobs move a lot and perform interesting attacks, so the combat is never stationary.
If Top down is the setting then Lost Ark should be the bar
@@JipookiLost Ark combat has the most brain dead combat rotations.
League should honestly be the bar. Pretty much all combat systems in mmos are garbage.
Agreed. As a 15 years League player, I had the most fun in V Rising that i had ever in years. Very well designed combat and game in general.
Yeah and their ideas on healing in combat are also very innovative and good. If there's a combat system I want to see in an mmo it's battlerite/v-rising one's, Riot idea of action combat feel immature in comparison.
Supervive: "*Ahem. Allow me to introduce myself."
OOooh SUPERVIVE enters chat...truly one of the best combat games right now.
Dragon nest also
Supervive combat does not fit mmo gameplay at all...
@@Dew-b8bit does
it's like action combat but top down
@@Dew-b8bit does though
Total sidebar: ESO is an underrated MMORPG. If the combat was better, that game would be the most popular MMO out there, IMHO, because everything else is super immersive.
Worst part is that combat was better during alpha-beta testing.
I think ESO has probably one of the most nice combat systems, swamping weapons to allow for a secondary skill slot based on your weapon is nice. I thought Throne of Liberty would feel the same but its not as good, I remember many PVP days in ESO being a nightblade Dagger/bow build just having crazy 1v1's and group fights. BDO has a such fun combat system cause its so fast pace just overall shitty offline grinding.
they can learn from POE2 or Guildwars2
if you want to make your combat enjoyable, just make all the abilities useful and interacts to each other
so that you can do some satisfying combos or combinations
I am so excited to play POE2 EA next week. I am gonna no life that on stream.
@@oheyspun see ya on your stream
gonna watch you while...
are you gonna stream it on release?
@another1118 that’s the plan. Probably start 30 minutes before or so.
Imo the most fun combat, no matter the genre, is always movement based. Aoe and support focused systems can cause significant powercreep if they're the primary focus, but as long as combat feels like a fluid dance around the field then it feels satisfying. I'd love to see both conventional things like grapple hooks but also unconventional things like portals and rocket packs and even physically grappling enemies like dragon's dogma 2 to add a more creative axis to a battlefield.
I'd also love to see abilities that can directly combo with another class' abilities like the combos in marvel rivals to keep things relatively fresh while you're playing with others.
Sounds like a mammoth task to make each individual class have these unique mechanics. Imagine putting LoL's combat in a 3D environment like Dragon's Dogma. No universal dodging but plenty of movement and then there's vertical movement like grapples and short flying and works well with controller. Heals remain unsloved though. But in New World, there's a whole dedicated section in the settings for healing functions from AoEs to ally lock ons. Maybe they could just do that.
Powercreep is inevitable with anything that has constant updates, that's just the nature of it, even for singleplayer stuff...
It will happen with movement too, there will be a teleport on less cooldown or a jump that doesn't need los, bamm you already powercrept your movement based balance....
Would be cool if you could secure some interviews at some point when Riot is willing to share more so you can cement yourself as a reliable source of info on riots mmo (moreso than you already are)
For those who know, real OG's Dragon Nest pvp was so satisfiying ...
This. Not a lot of people knew, but Dragon Nest combat system was so ahead of its time. There were values you need to be aware of, from staggers to aerial juggles. Even Black Desert pales in comparison.
Some Iconic characters that heal in lol - Soraka, (trade healers HP for Hp on ally, Combat moves are weak but heal the healer). Taric (armour enchangement andd to need to tether to your target, auto attack to reduce the cool down of your abilities) Senna (shoots guns and needs to collateral their team member to make it heal.)
But then there is shielding which is temporary heals that require more skill to time the attack.
Essentially they always make combat gameplay for supports that optimises their healing so they dont just afk aura heal
Plunderstorm guy going to Riot R&D a coincidence? I DON'T THINK SO
Ok I typed this comment and then literally ten seconds later you said it in the video but I'm leaving it haha. Plunderstorm felt like such a good proof of concept, and they're so good at stuff like skillshots that I think they've got the chops to make a skillshot-y mmo feel so, so good.
We gotta connect in Azeroth sometime, maybe the re-release of Plunderstorm soon?
@ hell yeah! Let’s make it happen!
I would love something similar again to lost ark. Played it for hundrets of hours and it felt really good
Third person Lost Ark would be really interesting to try out.
While watching Arcane right now I can tell that their world has the same potential wacraft had for their mmo. I am so hyped for riots mmo and I hope they don't mess it up and lead us into a new era of mmos.
THANK YOU for talking about healing in Action combat. It's the biggest flaw imo as a healer main. But I'm absolutely for action combat still. That wildstar healing looks very interesting with mouseover party healing with action combat. That would work
Wildstar really felt like third person league. Hopefully we can see this type of thing soon!
i liked the tera combat. the fact that you needed to aim certain spells was awesome. hard but awesome.
I don't care if people think the game is good or bad I am 100% committing myself to it full time just for the story and lore. The idea of exploring Runetera from a third person view is worth it.
I think it should be action combat with tab target features for the sake of support/healing.
As someone that absolutely despises Throne and Liberty action/tab targeting hybrid combat, please no. Just be one or the other.
Healing is terrible in action combat. Dungeons and raids devolve into all players being in a ball or else they don't get heals.
But besides healing I do prefer action combat
@@Mars-et8vc I think it would be worth looking into how mobas do healing an maybe trying to innovate. Tab targeting isn't great but healing in MMOs tends to suck in action combat
Tera online. That game's combat was amazing.
They better release this, and let us build our own Runeterra characters. I want arcade like action
Blade and Soul combat is very satisfying.
The most satisfying PvP combat I've ever seen is Naraka. And it's not even close.
I haven't tried heals yet but New World has a dedicated section in the settings to tweak how you want heals to function from AOEs to targetting and ally lock on. I also enjoyed the more grounded pacing and scale of it compared to the over the top and visually unintelligible nature of Black Desert. Amd it's easy to pick up but has plenty of skill expression. If only it had much more to offer than that. But I'd say if RIOT could improve on the fundamentals of NW's combat like say add a bunch more skills, removed lock on, added some cancels/feints, and a whole gameplay tweak dedicated for heals it feels to me like it could have some potential that way.
I think it would be cool if they build an MMO around the league controls and combat.
lost ark, corepunk
Yeah I just want Leaue but not summoners rift. Basically POE/Diablo but league style and graphics/lore
Corepunk after 1 hour is EA
Wildstar was so cool MMO, Probably the best i've ever played.
I really wish I could play it on a private server...I just wanna experience the systems and combat again.
I totally agree with you about league being the foundation for the mmo gameplay wise. I lowkey feel like the recent game modes they have added have been proof of concept for core mechanics. Ie. the bullet hell game mode for boss/raid mechanics and the intensity of them. I think the closest comparison would be similar to lost ark.
there is an MMO coming out soon called Corepunk which looks like a MOBA (same look as LoL or Dota, same movement, and your character is like a hero from one of these games with 4 or so abilities) but the world is more like early world of warcraft. Think it's in early access pretty soon, definitely looks promising if they can stick the landing
uhm Lost Ark combat?? Lost ark with better progression system, endgame dungeons/content in general and with the storyline of runeterra it would just be successful no matter what.
OMG. How could I forget Lost Ark? I think the progression system somehow blocked it out of my mind lmao. But the combat was great.
Combat was really great but I didn't enjoy the top down perspective that much. I would rather play league then
@@lunafatale9786 For me its quite the opposite. Maybe riot can do something like throne and liberty and have both 3rd person and isometric as options but I'm pretty sure it will be isometric.
Why would they be looking for someone with third person experience then?
@oheyspun exactly. I'm 99% confident that its gonna be 3rd person
In my opinion gw2 has the best combat For an mmo. Hybrid of the combat systems.
I agree that a hybrid of action and tab target makes the best combat system. You actually *don't* want to fully get rid of tab-target because it allows for a huge variety of abilities that simply aren't possible (or are extremely clunky to pull off) without it. Pure action is a little too zug zug/braindead for my tastes, you need the tab target portion of the system for the fights to have more complexity
Honestly, I’d like a hybrid of Arcade and mmo. Like a more evolved DCUO meets Elden Ring or Rift
DCUO was surprisingly good but did feel a bit shallow. Rift though is one of my favorites.
What do you think of the new world aternum combat? Of all the mmo combat I’ve tried I think it feels the best.
It has strong bones and feels great but lacks polish and more options. Also there's a whole dedicated section in the settings for healing function so that's a plus. If they can improve on that system and iron out it's wrinkles it could have massive potential.
Best combat sysyem i ever ecperienced was from C9 (continent of the ninth seal).
That really felt responsive and smooth ^^
i think mmos need to step away from mmo combat, because it is so dated and ass. no skill expression, just press numbers in order. start implementing stuff from fighting games, shooter games, and other genres.
I need action combat, have an urge to shoot drum mag auto crossbows.
Windstorm was the best game to date when it came to action combat healing as being in a old world first guild in that game....
Blade and soul combat was the best combat I experienced in an mmo and it was fun from the start.
Imagine the first time walking through Damacia aka the upgraded Stromwind and the first time going through Noxus aka the upgraded Orgimar that alone will have me sink 1000+ hours common Riot lets goooo
Would really love a combat like Dragon Nest’s PVP system..
I really enjoy the Black desert combat. But it would feel off with dungeons and raids probably.
imo
BnS had the best mmorpg combat overall
getting rid of the role trifecta was like taking off shackles youve used all your life so you didnt know how confortable it was to not have them
which also made role shortages non existent
I like vindictus or nostale style of game, hope it ll be something like that when they relase (if they do)
I wish they could somehow incorporate the fromsoftware risk n skill combat into an mmo. Ur progression is soley base of skill
I'd really like an mmorpg from the first person perspective personally. Like destiny, but possibly with more work going into melee combat and differing playstyles besides GUN.
Lost Ark has the best combat I ever experienced in an MMO, I just had to stop cause of how grindy it was, but combat alone was so clean
Lost ARK isnt mmo. Its arpg with multiplayer.
@@jakubpelikan2393"Lost Ark
A free-to-play MMO ARPG set in a vast, vibrant world with thrilling fights, endless customization, and endless adventure."
Literally the first thing that comes up after googling lost ark, directly from their website.
Its also something massively multiplayer and online.
It might not fit the thing you want MMOs to be but it is very much and MMO
Definitely needs to be action combat with more skill expression if they want it to succeed. I predict it will be something similar to games like Diablo 4, Last Epoch, Poe 2 gameplay wise but with the riot feel and polish to it. Not exactly like those arpgs gameplay wise just similar you won't be able to walk into a room and blow the entire screen up shit like that but more like what you can do with champions in league of legends but you're able to build your character and customize your skills. That's what it'll end up being like imo.
Riot has a history of taking popular concepts and revolutionizing them. Dota to League and Counterstrike to Valorant. I don't want to get my hopes too high, but I trust Riot to make something really special here. Could even dethrone the great WoW.
I completely get the comment about AoE healing, though my example is GW2. Dropping AoEs to outheal DPS to the party is *so boring*. It can work better for overworld content since everyone is all over the place, possibly getting downed by various attacks from a tough event boss, but instanced content isn't great.
The real struggle for action combat though, is figuring out how to make it reactive and freeform. If Riot has fancy action combat but you still have to follow a rotation, they messed up.
couldn't the just adopt the healing systems in league. Some healers have conditionals heals like soraka Q heals herself if she hits a target with that ability, soraka also has a targeted heal on her W that heals who ever she chooses for a set amount sacrificing her own hp, then her ultimate heals her whole team (party) for a flat amount. Then you have someone like Janna whose ultimate makes her channel creating a healing field in which she cannot move unless to cancel the field (which I find similar to Elden ring heals, when you are stood still channel and can create a healing aura which can heal anyone that comes close to you). There are plenty of other examples who how you can approach healing in an action combat world from league, support shielding as well is super interesting if you look at league, champion abilities like Renata E, Karma E (as well as Karma R>E) as well as other rebuffs like Lulu's polymorphism., other champions roots, stuns and slows. Just by taking a inspiration from their game they can find so many interesting ways to approach the support class imo
They could! Though some stuff would need reworks as the game is balanced mechanically around lanes and towers / objectives. Focusing on group fights and pve could change things but keep leagues over vibe.
dcuo has such a underrated combat system
Action combat is the only form of combat that's engaging enough for a competitive scene. My socks are wiggling to fly off once we get to see what the pvp will be like.
as a Soraka OTP from league, i'm hoping healing will be a much more active role and not just sitting back looking at health bars.
as a heal in wow , you sit back and watch life bars , as a tank in wow you sit in front and watch aggro bars ( well not now anymore but in the past it was that ) , finding a way to make those interesting to play is kinda hard imo
@@TheMycelle eh depends what version of wow you're playing. In the newer versions they've definitely made healing a lot more active and you don't just sit and watch bars
@@EB-bl6cc i played mostly in burning crusade , wotlk and cata. but it was in another life
Was that "Action Combat" posting before or after they announced they were going to reset which direction they were going with?
It was after / during the reset. Meaning, it was likely the reason for the reset.
@@oheyspun I tried finding the article job posting for it but I couldn't see it. But action combat should be fun
If you’re in my discord just ping me. It’s gone not but I got the receipts 😎
imo albian online combat goes really hard, reallly simple, prob too simple but its pretty engaging
Simple to play difficult to master. How all games should be imo.
@@oheyspun personally quit the game cus it was getting a bit toxic, but honestly it was really fun doing group content in both pvp and pve, also with clartity not being the worst, you could easily vod review to improve and unless you were doing 100v100, its also extremely readable in fight themselfs IMO, did not expect to get a response so fast lmaoo
As much as love MMOs, I think they’re a product of the past. I can’t think of a system that won’t get exploited to the max
Agreed, I think riot is better off making a overwatch like game for league of legends
Tell that to Concord.
I hope the mmo has more arpg style combat like lost ark. Most mmo combat systems just feel bad imo
bro did not care he hurt the poro anyways
😬
tera online STILL to this day to me had the most engaging fun combat
It was so good. Unfortunately, they forgot to provide that quality for the entire rest of the game.
I NEED GOOD COMBAT AND I NEED MORE OHEYSPUN COPIUM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Like and Share baby! More views = more vids I feed on it!!!!
I think its insane how you have doezens of videos on a game that there is virtually 0 information on. But you know what? I dig it. hopefully you can help shape the scene! As an avid MMO fan waiting for the next best thing to dump 10+ years into... I feel Riot is the only hope.
Fair enough. Personally I enjoy researching the development of the title and would be likely doing it with or without the videos. 🙌🏻
You know what game has healers that feel super satisfying and isn't like a traditional MMO, Overwatch.
BDO combat was immediately satisfying! It feels so good. But ofc, the clunky movement and desync turns me off. I wish BDO was a good game, so i could play it, but i always just do combat in trial mode and then leave the game :D I love the combat there.
would be cool if there is no classes and you make your own somehow but dont know how that would work
That's Albion Online
BDO's combat is perfect if there was no desync issues. It's so satisfying and fun and feels immediately fun and stays so for thousands of hours. As some one who has put dozens of thousands of hours and decades into every MMO you can think of, BDO combat is the most fun and satisfying, if only the servers and netcode were good and the game had real content.
Thats the issue with action combat like bdo... Large scale will just not work and thats probably the reason why you wont see more mmos with action combat like bdo. Netcode is just a bitch.
If you never checked out for yourself before - look up Dragon Nest.
The game back in a day before problems with connectivity and powercreep of abilities was phenomenal in the combat mechanics department. It allowed insane (especially for MMO) depth of the players skill levels. Which is uterly surprising considering what the game was in everything else (like, graphics, style, monetization, gameplay loop etc). You wouldnt expect such actually great combat gameplay from such a game., Aaand btw you're right about the heal thing in action combat, and the healers in this game weren't purely buff-heal bots.
I think there's some underliying problems of programming such thing on large scale (in dragon nest party was limited to 8 or 16 at max in dungeon) with open world etc, as it never was replicated or done the similar way in any other MMO i saw, but DN was comparetevly super small team to the resources of tencent and riot.
I’ll check it out on stream at some point this week.
@@oheyspun oh I'm not sure if it's still alive somewere to try it out, and also the main attractor for me was the feel of the combat in PvP, something you'd go on like levels 40-50 with skills unlocked etc. And everything else easily would feel pretty bad compared to big mmos like guild wars 2 or black desert. It's just different type of game. I suggest just to search the info and mb watch some old videos of pvp things from there.
But I do believe DN somehow hit something incredible with more on classic fantasy magic rpg + fighting, with "escapes", "saves", "super armor", i-frames etc with their combat system.
Ahhh bummer guess we are stuck with YT vids
@@oheyspun You actually tried this game for your MMO marathon about a year and a half ago.
@@cynthiahembree3957 I think I have a bit of PTSD from that marathon
as a MMORPG player who spent many times in WOW and climb in high lvl and high end game I had to say WOW system for me is most satisfying system in all MMORPG games so it means first of all game most be tab target and healing side in wow in mostly get helped from some addons but also blizzard system itself providing it in weaker type is Mouseover healing in party or raid frame its ez satisfying and make class designers hand open for many changes in future
But WoW already exists. Why would people happy with WoW buy imitation WoW?
Look if we wanted to play WoW we would. Just a reminder the old version of the MMO was implied to be a WoW clone which is why they reset in the first place most likely. Also WoW's average player is still like 40 so I don't think Riot is trying to have an audience that averages 40
@@cynthiahembree3957 making MMORPG is not that simple thats why many mega company just keep failing on mmorpg projects even riot cant even make a perfect mmorpg and release it before 2028 “hopefully” the problem is gamers dont know whats the exact process of making mmorpg new engine and new combat system means lots of bugs and anomaly’s if so choose and another new world exp or just a simple old school fun to play game
I mean, the combat sytem wow has, is the best in its genre. Would be stupid to not take notes from that and do better with some league style touch ups
It's one of the best tab target MMOs for sure if not the best. It is however still tab target - not fitting for a game coming out in 2027+.
Great combat was in Wildstar, reminds me lol a bit.
I wish there would be a game that copies dmc 5 combat
I once trusted Riot with these kinds of passion projects but seeing how greedy monetization schemes, lackluster content updates and horrible quality control have completey taken over at this point, chances are very low that this game will be good or actually be released at all. We all hope for a saviour in the MMO genre but let´s be honest, Riot won´t do it.
Im hyped for LoL mmo if it’s arcane show cell shadow for graphics
Side note: If @enshrouded found a way to become an mmo on its engine…it would be game over for everyone else.
Great video bud
What about throne and liberty since it is mmorpg that is f2p
Break the Trinity. Lol has it's own class meta.
they should wait for valve to release an mmo so they can copy it
WOW has the most well rounded combat, idk why none of these videos talk about it.
If an mmo is made and it doesnt have wow style combat, it will fail, definitely.
Tera Rising, has lasted thousands of hours
I’d say. If it don’t play just like league don’t even bother
Be welcome to New World Aeternum they have BEST Action combat with best healing action to me.
Not just combat, but MOVEMENT ... the WoW engine gives crisp, controlled, very tight feeling MOVEMENT... other MMOs feel "floaty" or " weighed down by weird disjointed inertial mechanics and animations".
The ONLY MMO that came even close to correct MOVEMENT that WoW provided was Wildstar. ... ALL of the rest fall short.... GuildWars 2, Final Fantasy...
ALL of them are clunky BS and I couldn't get past it...
Also... overuse of Spell Effects like in Tower of Fantasy - Genjin Impact style Asian games.... can't do them... to much BS going on.
What Riot DONT know is, they will not have the interests from the majority of the MMORPG masses. You cannot change a tradition that was already established and enjoyed. Some people that find out that type of play style, either get used too it or dont play that particular game or genre. I doubt Riot will change how MMORPGs. You have a name Riot, we get it, not alot of people respect Riot outside of the Arcane series. Ive been with Riot since 2012 and I know where their hearts lye. It aint for the community. Thats for sure. 2024 dont change anything.
I really enjoyed New World's combat
You reminded me of Wild Star, week ruined
bro talked about action combat without mentioning lost ark
bro was trying to talk about third person wasd. But lost Ark has great combat too!
New Worlds True action combat?
When you said "sure its not WASD or 3rd person." like thats the pinnacle of action economy XD. Thre is a reason smite didn't over take lol. WASD/3rd person have worse combat than lol click to move top down.
I'm a Ragnarok Online MMO type of guy... combact style isnt my vibe at all
Best action mmo was, and always will be, is Tera classic. after Tera not a single mmorpb scratched my itch when it comes to true action mmo.
I could have used pserver footage I guess, but yeah I really enjoyed Tera.
Just bring back wildstar with league universe
Could get shade for this, Tera comes to mind. With the Riot polish I think a system like that could be very interesting.
Should be as smooth as PSO2 :D
Best MMORPG with best combat is Dragon Nest hands down. Please Riot!!
Get this make it where you move I. League with wasd and third person. SHA BAM I would like to experience that
if it plays like wildstar then it will fail.
If it's not like BDO it won't last long
TERA Online is still undefeated and their combat system is from 2008. Defeating #1 is what Riot should go for. Or at least make the combat system as good as TERAs.
Comment section proves they have no clue what they are talking about, and the video wasn't good either. I don't mean it in a bad way.
People simply don't know any better or they go for their favorite MMORPGs instead of which game has the better combat.
Black Desert which is #2 all-time isn't mentioned much either.
And no GW2 is not an action combat game, neither is New World, WoW etc.
Lost Ark you can say is an action combat game, together with TERA and Black Desert but thats pretty much it.
Lost ark or Dofus gameplay,every other choice is wrong
Riot can always give us BDO-ish combat. Please let us move on from BDO
MMO-RPG's are simply for tab targeting, there's no need to reinvent the wheel and without a doubt they will fail at doing so just like everyone else before them. I can only see a vast open world WASD tab target MMO with splashes of free action combat, skillshot functions and very slight Shooter/FPS mechanics sprinkled on it doing well for an actual next gen MMO-RPG, anything more or too less is bound for failure.
a soulslike combat would be cool for an mmo
or maybe a monster hunter combat, because that's so satisfying
I always thought souls like or monster hunter combat would be fun for an mmo, but they rarely get chosen because it is too skill expressive and can easily scare away casual audiences.
Sorry but if they go action combat route the MMO will fail, theres a reason that the only big MMOs with longevity use tab target. GGs i guess lol.
game pve must have lost ark raid mechanics. game pvp must have skill and not a stat check like every other mmo 😴😴. sekiro pvp combat must be insane
Supervive is meh. Its too chaotic and confusing