No need to doom this early guys, we’ve had 1 week of patch notes. You can tell they aren’t finished, but just wanted to show off the new talents. Holy priest got a bunch of new talents and the tree is kinda messy, I fully expect them to sweep up as they usually do after a big round of changes. Chill!
You're not understanding, insurance is a HoT, with a secondary effect. The secondary effect is: if target with insurance HoT drops below 40% health, target is instantly healed for the remaining Heal of the HoT, so if the HoT had 4 ticks remaining at 10k per tick, the target will be instantly healed for 40k
@ 16:46 ...with shamrocked's coalescing water farseer build u can just spam chain heal n never run out of mana for m+ atleast...idk if u were talking abt this build in context to raids only. Altho the healing wave build cud b very efficient for raid Also wid love to see how the math differs for totemic vs far seer coz FS does get ancestors to duplicate the healing Also I guess we have cyrces circlet to be added to the math as well
From my testing on some dummies and a raid, you can get up to 7 targets with riptide and average around 5 to 6. Average healing of healing wave of 1.315 Mil, with no modifiers. So the throughput of the talent gives you around 70 percent of a chain heal on average. If we swap into undulation it makes this ratio much better and we can legit spam healing wave. Biggest issue is that even though all of this makes healing wave more efficient to cast than chain heal, the loss in healing for your ancestors makes ratio much worse. They can fix this if they make healing wave cast a chain heal when talented into this talent but I don't know if they would. Also, you may just not take the talent point under ascendance since AG is gone,
@ZucoWoW I could be also mis interpreting it but it sounds like it does a heal over time and if they drop to 40% health they get a big burst of healing and consume the effect. It could be wishfull thinking on my end though as i also think this tier set sucks
I'm interested in seeing how Whispering Waves feels. For M+, if I run a Riptide build, I sometimes drop Healing Tide Totem, so that could even be a -1 point for M+. I do agree that the bottom of the tree is incomprehensible at this point. Funny thing regarding the tier set, Dratnos mentioned that it's probably the best healer set too, so that's not great for next expac.
insurance scales with your mastery so it is probably going to be quite a big HOT. That auto procs for whatever is left on the HOT when the target goes to 40% or lower.
both priest specs, pres, rdruid. and mistweaver all have better sets. The value of the HoT is different for different healing specs, and ours, pres, rdruid and holy pally will all scale with mastery. For Shaman the HoT will be the least impactful as our mastery will not be buffing much over 40%. But should be more impactful for the 40% heal. The real question is does the HoT snapshot. If it does, then our mastery will never buff the consumption part of the effect.
its been 15 years. Its been 15 years since i stoped the game and one of my issues was button bloat. After 15 years i return expecting at least an improvement, only to realize button bloat is worse than when i stopped. I happened to try resto shaman only to realize its the most button bloated spec probably of them all. They speak here of adressing button bloating...Ok i think to myself, thats good, the spec needs a good 5+ buttons removed...And they practically change nothing. I dont know what i was expecting.
So, the 2-set is probably fine, it is a HoT and all healers have the same one, but the 4-set is not very good. Already you can play builds that ignore Healing rain (it's very costly and it really doesn't do much) and I seriously hope, that it at least applies 2 Insurances in case of Totemic, since they cast "rain" half as often. Also, Shaman is the only healer who can have mana issues, so losing our current tier set, that helps a lot with mana, will be tough. Losing Mana Tide is a head scratcher, apart from timing issues, we're also losing a totem cast that procs chain heal for Totemic without much of a benefit. 2 point vigour is just so we don't get any bonus talent points... The Whispering waves can have potential, but we lose Primordial Wave, which has always been THE payoff spell for Riptide builds (it also applies Riptide, so we actually can cast more Riptides now than after these "Riptide build" changes). And to top it all, we also lose Ancestral Guidance, an iconic cooldown, that although it was often macroed in raids, still have a good place in m+, and with no compensation, what so ever.... Yeah, I love rshamy but I don't think I'll be playing it next season.
They need to really bump up that Talent. Primordial Wave was fine, but it was too arkward to use and did too little on itself. They could have just made it better by giving it a second Riptide effect on a random target and actually having an impactful initial heal, so that pressing it would not have felt bad, just to get the buff. Replacing it with this thing will do nothing. It MAYBE something for Farseer Raid, its literally pointless thinking about it in M+, were you need those big heals and not 40k on something. Especially given the fact, that Healing Surge is just better than Healing wave in almost any regard and given situation (be it without or with Tidal Wave buff). And loosing the 4p next Season will make us cast Healing Wave even less, cause its too slow. And another problem with Healing Wave is, that we loose the 4p which was the only reason, even casting Healing Wave, cause otherwise its just to slow for those spiky Damage patterns. Unless they severly buff some talents here, i really think i try my luck with MW maining. Its more fun to play right now, it has the better numbers, is not as reliant on the 4p and the only thing i really miss from my Shaman is Spirit Link...
From what I've seen with riptide builds, you wouldn't take anything to do with chain heal. So that means you could drop all those talents. I do think that it's silly how many riptide talents are two point talents near the bottom though. There's no reason wavespeaker's needs to be a 2 point talent. I also think it's very poorly positioned. It leads to high tide which you wouldn't want with a riptide/healing wave build or to downpour which you also probably wouldn't really want. They say they want to focus on riptide builds which is super cool but don't give you enough talent points to really make the build worthwhile. I do think with farseer and taking the talent that has a chance to summon them with riptide you could potentially get a lot of riptides out. Summoning an ancestor also reduces the CD for riptide by 2 seconds. I could see a situation in which you could have 10+ riptides out which would make whispering waves feel very cool. I think they just need to rethink some of the talent choices...either their placement, their cost, or both.
So i think an ascension haste build with deeply rooted elemental will be meta so you will be procing deeply rooted very often and getting insane haste from it. I would not do a riptide build without the haste buff instead of shorter ascension. which would also increase your dps faster chain lightings and such.
The issues you have with resto are the same issues I have with the holy priest talent tree on the WoWhead ptr. Things are just in awkward spots so you have to choose between Answered Prayers and a handful of good talents. I hope they do a bit of a shuffle. As for the tier, I agree. I can imagine it doesnt have a high proc rate otherwise each of the 4 healers in a raid will have insurance on like 8 people (or more if they play the 4sets well i guess) and then if burst damage happens, everyone in the raid just gets multiple procs. But if it has a low proc chance then it's just overall garbage. shaman and holy priest could use better 4pc, and maybe they will balance it around having higher proc chances in 5man opposed to raid
meh, i never take ancestral vigor.. it increases their hp but doesnt heal them for that amount.. won't be taking it as a 2 point for sure.. also never really took mana tide either so its just free mana whenever you use healing tide so thats fine.... HOWEVER looking at the holy priest buff/changes holy priest just does all those things way better.. prayer of healing is now just a better version of chain heal
what level keys are you doing without ancestral vigor? i've only done 11s-12s as resto and i've honestly never tried running without it, i assumed it'd be pretty much required in 12s and above
Everyone needs to take a breath with the tier sets. 1.) They all need to be tuned 2.) tier set bonuses SHOULD NOT be the deterministic impactful things you are describing, at no point at the end of a season should someone be begging blizzard to add a tier set effect to the talent trees and right now that happens all the time. But that’s just my opinion
How often is your party under 40% health? That's the only way your tier set power gets triggered. Also, taking away Ancestral Guidance and making me spend more on my healing wave is not a benefit. Blizz better get their sh!t together.
No need to doom this early guys, we’ve had 1 week of patch notes. You can tell they aren’t finished, but just wanted to show off the new talents. Holy priest got a bunch of new talents and the tree is kinda messy, I fully expect them to sweep up as they usually do after a big round of changes. Chill!
You're not understanding, insurance is a HoT, with a secondary effect.
The secondary effect is: if target with insurance HoT drops below 40% health, target is instantly healed for the remaining Heal of the HoT, so if the HoT had 4 ticks remaining at 10k per tick, the target will be instantly healed for 40k
This is my understanding of it as well.
not sure i agree, it says if ANY ally drops below 40% it heals them.. so sounds like it will heal other allies
@@billflynn9962 ok we will see, if I'm right you owe me 50 bucks
Ahhh I see... Well, I'll get my hands on it soon on the PTR, hopefully it's closer to how you're describing it, and not how I read it.
@@billflynn9962 I think he is correct, but you may be too with it healing any target that is under 40%.
@ 16:46 ...with shamrocked's coalescing water farseer build u can just spam chain heal n never run out of mana for m+ atleast...idk if u were talking abt this build in context to raids only.
Altho the healing wave build cud b very efficient for raid
Also wid love to see how the math differs for totemic vs far seer coz FS does get ancestors to duplicate the healing
Also I guess we have cyrces circlet to be added to the math as well
From my testing on some dummies and a raid, you can get up to 7 targets with riptide and average around 5 to 6. Average healing of healing wave of 1.315 Mil, with no modifiers. So the throughput of the talent gives you around 70 percent of a chain heal on average. If we swap into undulation it makes this ratio much better and we can legit spam healing wave. Biggest issue is that even though all of this makes healing wave more efficient to cast than chain heal, the loss in healing for your ancestors makes ratio much worse. They can fix this if they make healing wave cast a chain heal when talented into this talent but I don't know if they would. Also, you may just not take the talent point under ascendance since AG is gone,
Whispering waves is just Glimmer from holy paladin
another spec we should be worried about in S2!
Not glimmer. Renewing mists from mw monk
@@daniellynch7219 How is it like renewing mists? Can you explain why you think that?
I do not play mistweaver
@@havtor007when you heal a target with vivify, every target with the renewing mists hot on them is healed too
@liamdavies2823 So that is a glimmer like ability to then.
Interesting it came in at the same time as glimmer and yet was not op like glimmer
thanks for the first look Zuc.
@ZucoWoW I could be also mis interpreting it but it sounds like it does a heal over time and if they drop to 40% health they get a big burst of healing and consume the effect. It could be wishfull thinking on my end though as i also think this tier set sucks
This is my reading as well
you are correct zucco is wrong. it with be like an extra riptide on someone.
this is what it does. Zuco just didnt understand it correctly
Here’s a little song I wrote you might want to sing it note for note. Don’t worry be happy , dooo doo doo doo do doo do da doo 🤣
but blizzard.. what if i like doing chain heal ?!
I'm interested in seeing how Whispering Waves feels. For M+, if I run a Riptide build, I sometimes drop Healing Tide Totem, so that could even be a -1 point for M+. I do agree that the bottom of the tree is incomprehensible at this point.
Funny thing regarding the tier set, Dratnos mentioned that it's probably the best healer set too, so that's not great for next expac.
insurance scales with your mastery so it is probably going to be quite a big HOT. That auto procs for whatever is left on the HOT when the target goes to 40% or lower.
both priest specs, pres, rdruid. and mistweaver all have better sets. The value of the HoT is different for different healing specs, and ours, pres, rdruid and holy pally will all scale with mastery. For Shaman the HoT will be the least impactful as our mastery will not be buffing much over 40%. But should be more impactful for the 40% heal. The real question is does the HoT snapshot. If it does, then our mastery will never buff the consumption part of the effect.
its been 15 years.
Its been 15 years since i stoped the game and one of my issues was button bloat.
After 15 years i return expecting at least an improvement, only to realize button bloat is worse than when i stopped.
I happened to try resto shaman only to realize its the most button bloated spec probably of them all.
They speak here of adressing button bloating...Ok i think to myself, thats good, the spec needs a good 5+ buttons removed...And they practically change nothing.
I dont know what i was expecting.
I myself hate how many buttons are necessary, but shaman isn't the worst. I would like fewer, but, shaman is very playable to me, vs some others.
So, the 2-set is probably fine, it is a HoT and all healers have the same one, but the 4-set is not very good. Already you can play builds that ignore Healing rain (it's very costly and it really doesn't do much) and I seriously hope, that it at least applies 2 Insurances in case of Totemic, since they cast "rain" half as often. Also, Shaman is the only healer who can have mana issues, so losing our current tier set, that helps a lot with mana, will be tough. Losing Mana Tide is a head scratcher, apart from timing issues, we're also losing a totem cast that procs chain heal for Totemic without much of a benefit. 2 point vigour is just so we don't get any bonus talent points... The Whispering waves can have potential, but we lose Primordial Wave, which has always been THE payoff spell for Riptide builds (it also applies Riptide, so we actually can cast more Riptides now than after these "Riptide build" changes). And to top it all, we also lose Ancestral Guidance, an iconic cooldown, that although it was often macroed in raids, still have a good place in m+, and with no compensation, what so ever.... Yeah, I love rshamy but I don't think I'll be playing it next season.
They need to really bump up that Talent. Primordial Wave was fine, but it was too arkward to use and did too little on itself. They could have just made it better by giving it a second Riptide effect on a random target and actually having an impactful initial heal, so that pressing it would not have felt bad, just to get the buff. Replacing it with this thing will do nothing. It MAYBE something for Farseer Raid, its literally pointless thinking about it in M+, were you need those big heals and not 40k on something. Especially given the fact, that Healing Surge is just better than Healing wave in almost any regard and given situation (be it without or with Tidal Wave buff). And loosing the 4p next Season will make us cast Healing Wave even less, cause its too slow.
And another problem with Healing Wave is, that we loose the 4p which was the only reason, even casting Healing Wave, cause otherwise its just to slow for those spiky Damage patterns.
Unless they severly buff some talents here, i really think i try my luck with MW maining. Its more fun to play right now, it has the better numbers, is not as reliant on the 4p and the only thing i really miss from my Shaman is Spirit Link...
Pretty sure insurance is a HoT. And when ally drops below 40% it is consilumed to do a big heal. That's how I read.
From what I've seen with riptide builds, you wouldn't take anything to do with chain heal. So that means you could drop all those talents. I do think that it's silly how many riptide talents are two point talents near the bottom though. There's no reason wavespeaker's needs to be a 2 point talent. I also think it's very poorly positioned. It leads to high tide which you wouldn't want with a riptide/healing wave build or to downpour which you also probably wouldn't really want.
They say they want to focus on riptide builds which is super cool but don't give you enough talent points to really make the build worthwhile. I do think with farseer and taking the talent that has a chance to summon them with riptide you could potentially get a lot of riptides out. Summoning an ancestor also reduces the CD for riptide by 2 seconds. I could see a situation in which you could have 10+ riptides out which would make whispering waves feel very cool.
I think they just need to rethink some of the talent choices...either their placement, their cost, or both.
So i think an ascension haste build with deeply rooted elemental will be meta so you will be procing deeply rooted very often and getting insane haste from it. I would not do a riptide build without the haste buff instead of shorter ascension. which would also increase your dps faster chain lightings and such.
riptide doesn't have a hasted cd.
The issues you have with resto are the same issues I have with the holy priest talent tree on the WoWhead ptr. Things are just in awkward spots so you have to choose between Answered Prayers and a handful of good talents. I hope they do a bit of a shuffle.
As for the tier, I agree. I can imagine it doesnt have a high proc rate otherwise each of the 4 healers in a raid will have insurance on like 8 people (or more if they play the 4sets well i guess) and then if burst damage happens, everyone in the raid just gets multiple procs. But if it has a low proc chance then it's just overall garbage. shaman and holy priest could use better 4pc, and maybe they will balance it around having higher proc chances in 5man opposed to raid
ancestors also triggering wiserping waves ?
Ancestors cast Healing Surge, not Healing Wave. That would be sick though!
@ZucoWoW a...correct . Sorry ;) just a totemic Main
How you add support to riptides builds if you remove primordial wave, youre basically removing a riptide charge, thats a 30% nerf to the build...wtf?
meh, i never take ancestral vigor.. it increases their hp but doesnt heal them for that amount.. won't be taking it as a 2 point for sure.. also never really took mana tide either so its just free mana whenever you use healing tide so thats fine.... HOWEVER looking at the holy priest buff/changes holy priest just does all those things way better.. prayer of healing is now just a better version of chain heal
what level keys are you doing without ancestral vigor? i've only done 11s-12s as resto and i've honestly never tried running without it, i assumed it'd be pretty much required in 12s and above
@@atrxyu oh i mainly talking about raid.. you make a good point about M+ it's probably required, i usually go enhance or play my priest
Everyone needs to take a breath with the tier sets.
1.) They all need to be tuned
2.) tier set bonuses SHOULD NOT be the deterministic impactful things you are describing, at no point at the end of a season should someone be begging blizzard to add a tier set effect to the talent trees and right now that happens all the time.
But that’s just my opinion
If you can’t out perform classes that are 20 ilvls above you, it’s time to doom and reroll. 😂
I'm really really trying to get into healing but the game just keeps pushing me away in every way
Rest shaman, don't complain in the forum if it is mage or lock you see the forum full or people complain
How often is your party under 40% health? That's the only way your tier set power gets triggered. Also, taking away Ancestral Guidance and making me spend more on my healing wave is not a benefit. Blizz better get their sh!t together.