I could hear a significant difference in the non potted pup. The lacquer and wax sounded the same. I really liked the clarity on the non potted. Thanks for the comparison.
you should have soaked the lacquer pickup for 30 mins as well. And if you have a machine that can vibrate the pot, it will help release air bubbles in the pickup winding.
I don't see why you would want to increase potting time if microphonics are controlled. My goal would be to do the minimal potting to decrease microphonics. My personal choice would be non potted. But I am not performing
Great video, very informative, the lacquered pickup seemed almost too controlled, full brazilian does it for me when high gain is in order, but unpotted seemed best to my ears for cleanish tones...
In your experience what year Stratocaster pickups are not potted? I know my 1975 Stratocaster has lacquer dipped pickups and they didn't sound to bad. I suppose it would also depend on the tension of the wire while being wound if it will squeal or not; would you agree with this statement?
Many thanks for your video. I think that it is quite difficult to determine if the different material used to pot those 2 pickups affect their sound, because it would require to have two identical pickups as starting point and I suppose it is something quite difficult to obtain if we are using hand wound pickups.
It doesn’t matter to me if wax can possibly effect high end. I cannot play an unpotted pickup with the high gain amps I use. Technology exists for a reason. If anyone is such a tone snob and want to play with 1950s unpotted pickups, enjoy yourself. My wax potted pickup sound great without any microphonic feedback. You can also encapsulate the coils with epoxy resin like the real Bill Lawrence pickups.
@@ozoneswiftak Mod Podge is an all purpose crafting medium. I don't really know if you should use it. It's messy. For me I have to try something and throw the project away if it is does not work out.
@@SchuylerDeanPickups I happened back here. I'm glad I did. I have no access to tools so I took a hammer and chisel to my Strat so I could take out the middle pickup from the bottom. Not pretty but works.
You could use a small jar in a saucepan of hot water on a camping gas stove to wax pot or even a microwave on a low setting as it's not particularly flammable. Try the coloured candles . Beeswax is not really necessary , you can add carnauba wax which will harden the wax slightly and even earwax if you want. Try a few drops of lavender oil or use cheap scented candles from the £1 shop . Gibson actually glues their magnets on their singles for the Melody Maker reissue with just paraffin wax and are not potted at all . Some winders spray solvent free beeswax wax polish on the coils as they wind them and white water based glue can be used too . If you fill the cavities between Poles before winding the bobbin it takes less time to pot them .
I felt that the wax potting was best. The unpotted pickups definitely had a liveliness that wax potted didn't have. Which is very cool with what you were playing. But I hear this almost as a time based effect rather than an amplitude effect. And if I'm going to have a time based effect I really want to be able to control the timing and or wet/dry mix of it. Maybe I'm crazy, and granted I'm listening on a cell phone. But it's almost a little wobble kinda chorus effect. The lacquer may have retained more of this wobble that the wax potted, and overall it sounded brittle, as I imagine the lacquer is after dry. Thanks for the video! Sorry for the long comment!
Seems the lacqure allowed the non potted sound some what because it really didnt pot the coils just the outside, the wax slightly muted some highs . I dont know really 50/50 .the non potted was more open but how would you even tame the screech at stage volume . Very cool test.
In this demo, it was difficult to hear any real difference. I've also been playing for over 30 years, and have a pretty find ear. I always wondered about unpotted pickups and assumed that it would be a minute difference if any. I got my first set of unpotted PAFs about two years ago and I could definitely tell a huge difference, at least in the case of my guitar and my pickups. It's not simply an "eq" thing, yes they are crisp with a lot of high end detail, but there is something about the overtones, and it is dynamic. They respond differently to attack. The frequency response seems to vary depending on pick attack. So for instance, you can have the tone pot down low so that they sound soft and dark, and as you attack the guitar harder, some highs will break through. With the right tube amp and a lot of volume, the experience is like no other. Yes they can squeal, but not unless you're standing right in front of the amp and using a lot of gain. And in some ways, walking that thin line between feedback and resonance becomes part of the whole experience. For the playing I do now, unpotted PAFs are perfect for me. I do think the volume of the amp has a significant effect on the characters I describe, which is perhaps why demos recorded on UA-cam do not illustrate the difference, most are recorded a low volume.
@@SchuylerDeanPickups I'm not trying to sound like a douche, but the whole UA-cam audio not being "good quality" is quite the persistent myth. UA-cam does roll off frequencies above 16khz, but that is WELL above anything coming out of a guitar speaker. Bit depth and sample rate are well within acceptable range for music. They do apply a little bit of compression, but this affects amplitude (volume, dynamically), not frequency response. And regardless of all of this, the real magic in unpotted pickups, to me, happens in the mid range. The "openness" and the "acoustic-like" quality of the guitar sound, are all happening in the sweet spot, ie: the mid range. Just my $0.02.
@@SchuylerDeanPickups Also, in no way trying to diminish your video, this is a great test, and I think it's great that you're putting all of this out there for free. That's a really cool test mule guitar!
@@agtronic unless it's changed standard youtube video runs 128kbps. Their premium music service allows selections: Low Upper bound of 48kbps AAC Normal Default setting Upper bound of 128kbps AAC High Upper bound of 256kbps AAC unless I've missed something somewhere which frankly happens daily 🤣😂🤣
Great video. I have a Squier classic vibe strat that is a bit microphonic. But everyone tells me fender pots all their pickups these days. Cant find any specs on the pickups. Is it possible the pickups were not potted?
Years ago, I used my moms old candles laying around. I still have the guitar. Sounds great, no feed back. Is it necessary to use specific wax? I dont think so.
This is the second test I have seen on wax potting vs no potting. The other test was humbuckers. In both cases the non potted pickups had a bit more presence. Very subtle. I think I liked the sound of the lacquer potted better than the wax. also I wonder if as the laquer continues to cure an harden, If it would have less dampening affect on sound. Thank you for the test.
Hi Schuyler! How would you proceed for microphonic problem finding on a Telly? I've just installed handmade P90 and a slightly overwound single coil, and the manufacturer swears they are super potted. What do you recommend me to do? I even hear the noise of the pickup shift switch... Could it be possible that it is the capacitor (instead of the pickups) to be microphonic!? Thank you mate!
I play loud on stage and I don't pot any of my pickups! Maybe I should do a gig video!! I play stratocasters but a few months ago made some exact replicas ( complete with wooden spacers) of 1950s filtertrons for a gretsch ( the pickups it came with where crap) they sound great quiet or really loud! No wax potting!
Interesting. I play at low volume, but I like the mellower tone of wax potted pickups as I play a lot of jazz. Lots of jazzers like unpotted pickups, but often the highs are a little to harsh for jazz and can't be reliably dialed out.
I like unpotted or lightly wax potted pickups for the clarity, but I thought all your examples on these single coils sounded good. I think it is a bigger factor with humbuckers. I have no doubt one of the key factors in why vintage PAFs sound better than modern ones is that they are unpotted and microphonic to some degree. I would definitely always choose unpotted humbuckers because they tend to be too dark and muddy if over-potted.
You need to to look into setting up a vacuum chamber to do your potting. And not to expensive. On your wax rig, drill a hole in lid insert a bung to accept vacuum hose, sort out sealing the lid and you done. You can even lacer pot in it. Have you ever though about epoxy potting? That defiantly would need to pot under a a vac, to Elim. Air bubbles.
Thanks. Very helpful. I have original 1969 pickups that are microphonic, but I'm pretty sure wax potting would devalue them. On the other hand, it would be nice to play guitar worry free of unwanted squealing. Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated.
Generally speaking, yes, so it looks fine after you wax pot them. You can go ahead and wax pot it with covers, but you might need to do a lot of cleaning afterwards.
"so that''ll just coat the outside of the coil, it doesn't really get to the inside of the coil" 3:06 Question; Why is lacquer not able to get the inside? Maybe because you didn't boil it?
is it possible boil the lacquer to make it less dense, less slimy, more liquid, in order to have it fill also the inside of the coil as boiled wax does?
@@blop1738 people put marbles or stones so the pickup doesn’t touch the hotter metal of the pot, which could melt the plastic bobbins or wire covering.
Well done. Good info. If you have a cheap shit pickup, from an eBay kit guitar, wax potting will lift the whole sound picture out of the poop considerably, without lashing out to buy expensive pickups. But for a better guitar (above kit quality) like the infamous Chibsons for example, I'd go for some really well made English or American made pickups and be done with it. And let's not forget about the pots and the tone control role they play. CTS pots... and nothing less, and you've done the best you can there. Then, its all about the wood and the finish, beyond that. A tele kit that I put together recently, I decided not to put a gloss finish over it all, just a color scheme and 'orange oil' (furniture polish) and it sounds really round and bighty (as opposed to tinny). The wood is Chinese basswood, which is nowhere near alder, maple, or ash. But for a cheap 'project' kit telecaster that I can pass around at parties, without worrying too much, its just fine. Loads of fun. Give that non-finish technique a try some time. The difference is clearly noticeable. Basswood can be made to sound better, just like wax potting or lacquer dipping the pickups can remove negative traits. Put it all together and you can come up with something that has a good bang-for-buck ratio.
is wax or lacquer the more invasive potting? In other words which one is the most subtle potting if you just dip thr pickup in for 1 second? wax or Lacquer?
Novak pickups claims he doesn't pot the coils but just pots the Bobbins / magnets. and his pickups dont have microphonics like this. So have you tried just potting thr bobbins / magnets?
@@SchuylerDeanPickups If you mix the lacquer with water to water it down and dip the pickups for 1 second before pulling out, will it be even a less of an effect? Might try that
I could hear a significant difference in the non potted pup.
The lacquer and wax sounded the same.
I really liked the clarity on the non potted.
Thanks for the comparison.
The Laquer seems to a much easier process than the Wax. Dry time would be longer but simpler.
What do you prefer and Why?
Thanks!
Yip.... A small difference in high frequencies ... "BUT" , if you're on stage, high gain etc, 😣 having wax pot pickups is very necessary..🎸🎸☺️☺️🤗🤔
Telecasters were wax potted from 1951 and lacquer potted from 1967 on.
Huh, that's interesting. I heard that early Fender pickups were not potted. 🤷♀
you should have soaked the lacquer pickup for 30 mins as well. And if you have a machine that can vibrate the pot, it will help release air bubbles in the pickup winding.
I don't see why you would want to increase potting time if microphonics are controlled. My goal would be to do the minimal potting to decrease microphonics. My personal choice would be non potted. But I am not performing
I could hear a difference, but it was only slight, and it didn't necessarily make the sound worse.
Great video, very informative, the lacquered pickup seemed almost too controlled, full brazilian does it for me when high gain is in order, but unpotted seemed best to my ears for cleanish tones...
Thanks, Vincent. I think so too.
I like full brazilian, it gives u a smoother texture 😉
@@elluisito000 I like a little hair on my cleans.
In your experience what year Stratocaster pickups are not potted? I know my 1975 Stratocaster has lacquer dipped pickups and they didn't sound to bad. I suppose it would also depend on the tension of the wire while being wound if it will squeal or not; would you agree with this statement?
Many thanks for your video. I think that it is quite difficult to determine if the different material used to pot those 2 pickups affect their sound, because it would require to have two identical pickups as starting point and I suppose it is something quite difficult to obtain if we are using hand wound pickups.
It doesn’t matter to me if wax can possibly effect high end. I cannot play an unpotted pickup with the high gain amps I use. Technology exists for a reason. If anyone is such a tone snob and want to play with 1950s unpotted pickups, enjoy yourself. My wax potted pickup sound great without any microphonic feedback. You can also encapsulate the coils with epoxy resin like the real Bill Lawrence pickups.
Amazing video! Congrats! :) loved the non potted pickups btw
That's a great pickup testing guitar. Great idea. I have no way to wax or lacquer pot so I use diluted Mod Podge.
That will work in a pinch!
What's mod podge?
@@ozoneswiftak Mod Podge is an all purpose crafting medium. I don't really know if you should use it. It's messy. For me I have to try something and throw the project away if it is does not work out.
@@SchuylerDeanPickups I happened back here. I'm glad I did. I have no access to tools so I took a hammer and chisel to my Strat so I could take out the middle pickup from the bottom. Not pretty but works.
You could use a small jar in a saucepan of hot water on a camping gas stove to wax pot or even a microwave on a low setting as it's not particularly flammable. Try the coloured candles . Beeswax is not really necessary , you can add carnauba wax which will harden the wax slightly and even earwax if you want. Try a few drops of lavender oil or use cheap scented candles from the £1 shop . Gibson actually glues their magnets on their singles for the Melody Maker reissue with just paraffin wax and are not potted at all . Some winders spray solvent free beeswax wax polish on the coils as they wind them and white water based glue can be used too . If you fill the cavities between Poles before winding the bobbin it takes less time to pot them .
isn't 4/64 the same as 1/16? awesome demo....the unpotted did sound sweeter....
I felt that the wax potting was best. The unpotted pickups definitely had a liveliness that wax potted didn't have. Which is very cool with what you were playing. But I hear this almost as a time based effect rather than an amplitude effect. And if I'm going to have a time based effect I really want to be able to control the timing and or wet/dry mix of it. Maybe I'm crazy, and granted I'm listening on a cell phone. But it's almost a little wobble kinda chorus effect. The lacquer may have retained more of this wobble that the wax potted, and overall it sounded brittle, as I imagine the lacquer is after dry. Thanks for the video! Sorry for the long comment!
Seems the lacqure allowed the non potted sound some what because it really didnt pot the coils just the outside, the wax slightly muted some highs . I dont know really 50/50 .the non potted was more open but how would you even tame the screech at stage volume . Very cool test.
That's what I thought too, thanks, Edad!
Hi! That modified guitar is a great idea to test pickups :D
Laquer and wax did make a big difference the non potted sounds higher pitch and alot more noisier
Thanks for watching!
In this demo, it was difficult to hear any real difference. I've also been playing for over 30 years, and have a pretty find ear. I always wondered about unpotted pickups and assumed that it would be a minute difference if any. I got my first set of unpotted PAFs about two years ago and I could definitely tell a huge difference, at least in the case of my guitar and my pickups. It's not simply an "eq" thing, yes they are crisp with a lot of high end detail, but there is something about the overtones, and it is dynamic. They respond differently to attack. The frequency response seems to vary depending on pick attack. So for instance, you can have the tone pot down low so that they sound soft and dark, and as you attack the guitar harder, some highs will break through. With the right tube amp and a lot of volume, the experience is like no other. Yes they can squeal, but not unless you're standing right in front of the amp and using a lot of gain. And in some ways, walking that thin line between feedback and resonance becomes part of the whole experience. For the playing I do now, unpotted PAFs are perfect for me. I do think the volume of the amp has a significant effect on the characters I describe, which is perhaps why demos recorded on UA-cam do not illustrate the difference, most are recorded a low volume.
Yeah, UA-cam is not really a Hi-Fi experience, lol, but a lot of people say they can hear a difference.
@@SchuylerDeanPickups I'm not trying to sound like a douche, but the whole UA-cam audio not being "good quality" is quite the persistent myth. UA-cam does roll off frequencies above 16khz, but that is WELL above anything coming out of a guitar speaker. Bit depth and sample rate are well within acceptable range for music. They do apply a little bit of compression, but this affects amplitude (volume, dynamically), not frequency response. And regardless of all of this, the real magic in unpotted pickups, to me, happens in the mid range. The "openness" and the "acoustic-like" quality of the guitar sound, are all happening in the sweet spot, ie: the mid range. Just my $0.02.
@@SchuylerDeanPickups Also, in no way trying to diminish your video, this is a great test, and I think it's great that you're putting all of this out there for free. That's a really cool test mule guitar!
@@agtronic unless it's changed standard youtube video runs 128kbps. Their premium music service allows selections:
Low
Upper bound of 48kbps AAC
Normal
Default setting
Upper bound of 128kbps AAC
High
Upper bound of 256kbps AAC
unless I've missed something somewhere which frankly happens daily 🤣😂🤣
Great video. I have a Squier classic vibe strat that is a bit microphonic. But everyone tells me fender pots all their pickups these days. Cant find any specs on the pickups. Is it possible the pickups were not potted?
Years ago, I used my moms old candles laying around. I still have the guitar. Sounds great, no feed back. Is it necessary to use specific wax? I dont think so.
same here
4/64th?
Don't you mean
1/16th?
😆
This is the second test I have seen on wax potting vs no potting. The other test was humbuckers. In both cases the non potted pickups had a bit more presence. Very subtle. I think I liked the sound of the lacquer potted better than the wax. also I wonder if as the laquer continues to cure an harden, If it would have less dampening affect on sound. Thank you for the test.
I think your onto something
Yes it does Bob, yes it does.
The no pot pu sounded more articulate.
Can I use polyurethane-based lacquer for lacquer potting pickups? Great video btw!
Thanks, Lucas. Yeah you can use Poly-based lacquer.
Hi
Very good demo
I would like to learn how to made pickup testing pickguard?
Thanks
Hi Schuyler! How would you proceed for microphonic problem finding on a Telly? I've just installed handmade P90 and a slightly overwound single coil, and the manufacturer swears they are super potted. What do you recommend me to do? I even hear the noise of the pickup shift switch... Could it be possible that it is the capacitor (instead of the pickups) to be microphonic!? Thank you mate!
I play loud on stage and I don't pot any of my pickups! Maybe I should do a gig video!! I play stratocasters but a few months ago made some exact replicas ( complete with wooden spacers) of 1950s filtertrons for a gretsch ( the pickups it came with where crap) they sound great quiet or really loud! No wax potting!
Interesting. I play at low volume, but I like the mellower tone of wax potted pickups as I play a lot of jazz. Lots of jazzers like unpotted pickups, but often the highs are a little to harsh for jazz and can't be reliably dialed out.
I like unpotted or lightly wax potted pickups for the clarity, but I thought all your examples on these single coils sounded good. I think it is a bigger factor with humbuckers. I have no doubt one of the key factors in why vintage PAFs sound better than modern ones is that they are unpotted and microphonic to some degree. I would definitely always choose unpotted humbuckers because they tend to be too dark and muddy if over-potted.
You need to to look into setting up a vacuum chamber to do your potting. And not to expensive. On your wax rig, drill a hole in lid insert a bung to accept vacuum hose, sort out sealing the lid and you done. You can even lacer pot in it. Have you ever though about epoxy potting? That defiantly would need to pot under a a vac, to Elim. Air bubbles.
I never heard a difference in pickups, but I do with the non-potted vs potted and I have to say, I like the un-potted.
Thank you ... this is currently the best video out there comparing potting methods.
Your intro makes me recall both Office and Better Caul Saul at the same time!
Awesome!)
Great video, thanks for sharing!
Thanks for watching!
Like the intro to the video.
Thanks for watching!
I forgot to say great video! Good job. Very informative. No b.s.
Thank you for the video. That was awesome!
Tone wax now?
tone clover honey beeswax only fom NY / Canadian border
Very informative, thank you!
Wow, that guitar is a genious idea
Thanks. Very helpful. I have original 1969 pickups that are microphonic, but I'm pretty sure wax potting would devalue them. On the other hand, it would be nice to play guitar worry free of unwanted squealing. Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated.
Yeah I would replace the pickups and hang onto the old ones.
This video is so good!
I hear heavy strings.
sorry for the late question..do i have to take the covers off my vintage usa epiphone pafs before i did them into the wax?
Generally speaking, yes, so it looks fine after you wax pot them. You can go ahead and wax pot it with covers, but you might need to do a lot of cleaning afterwards.
@@sashabagdasarow497 thanks
"so that''ll just coat the outside of the coil, it doesn't really get to the inside of the coil" 3:06 Question; Why is lacquer not able to get the inside? Maybe because you didn't boil it?
is it possible boil the lacquer to make it less dense, less slimy, more liquid, in order to have it fill also the inside of the coil as boiled wax does?
and what's the purpouse for those glass marbles on the pot bottom? 4:05
@@blop1738 people put marbles or stones so the pickup doesn’t touch the hotter metal of the pot, which could melt the plastic bobbins or wire covering.
@@darwinsaye cOoOoOoOoL! thanx
@@darwinsaye and which is better; marbles or stones btw?
Well done. Good info.
If you have a cheap shit pickup, from an eBay kit guitar, wax potting will lift the whole sound picture out of the poop considerably, without lashing out to buy expensive pickups.
But for a better guitar (above kit quality) like the infamous Chibsons for example, I'd go for some really well made English or American made pickups and be done with it.
And let's not forget about the pots and the tone control role they play. CTS pots... and nothing less, and you've done the best you can there.
Then, its all about the wood and the finish, beyond that.
A tele kit that I put together recently, I decided not to put a gloss finish over it all, just a color scheme and 'orange oil' (furniture polish) and it sounds really round and bighty (as opposed to tinny).
The wood is Chinese basswood, which is nowhere near alder, maple, or ash.
But for a cheap 'project' kit telecaster that I can pass around at parties, without worrying too much, its just fine. Loads of fun.
Give that non-finish technique a try some time. The difference is clearly noticeable.
Basswood can be made to sound better, just like wax potting or lacquer dipping the pickups can remove negative traits.
Put it all together and you can come up with something that has a good bang-for-buck ratio.
is wax or lacquer the more invasive potting? In other words which one is the most subtle potting if you just dip thr pickup in for 1 second? wax or Lacquer?
to my ear lacquer is less invasive and retains the qualities of a non-potted pickup.
Very nice video, could you tell me if it is right to use paraffin OIL instead of paraffin WAX?
Lamp oil?? Never heard of using that, I can't see how that would benefit the pickup.
You could use it, but it won't work. Oil doesn't hold the fine wires together and would just seep out and ruin your guitar.
Novak pickups claims he doesn't pot the coils but just pots the Bobbins / magnets. and his pickups dont have microphonics like this.
So have you tried just potting thr bobbins / magnets?
yes I pot all my bobbins in Lacquer but the purpose of that is to insulate and avoid grounding the coil to the magnets.
@@SchuylerDeanPickups But will just potting the bobbins / magnets do anything for microphonics m
@@levijessegonzalez3629 I can't see why it would.
@@SchuylerDeanPickups If you mix the lacquer with water to water it down and dip the pickups for 1 second before pulling out, will it be even a less of an effect?
Might try that
@@levijessegonzalez3629 You can't mix lacquer with water. Use lacquer thinner.