Kurzgesagt: billionaire propaganda, trusting science, and effective altruism
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- Опубліковано 24 лип 2024
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The drama (chronological):
🎬Our original video: • Kurzgesagt and the art...
🎬The Hated One's video: • How Kurzgesagt Cooks P...
📜Kurzgesagt founder's text response: / kurzgesagt_statement_t...
📜THO's text response to the response: / my_response_to_kurzgesagt
🎬Kurzgesagt's video response: • How We Make Money on Y...
Kurzgesagt additional Videos:
🎬Is Civilization on the Brink of Collapse? • Is Civilization on the...
🎬The Last Human - A Glimpse Into The Far Future • The Last Human - A Gli...
Our explainers:
🎬 Capitalocene: how capitalism caused the climate crisis • Capitalocene: how capi...
⬆If you want just one video, watch this one!⬆
🎬 Degrowth in 7 minutes: Fighting for climate by living better • Degrowth in 7 minutes:...
🎬 Solarpunk in 7 minutes: The case for utopia • Solarpunk in 7 minutes...
Gates Foundation grant: www.gatesfoundation.org/about...
Open Philanthropy grants: www.openphilanthropy.org/gran... www.openphilanthropy.org/gran...
Paltering papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.c...
Full contents
00:00 Introduction
02:18 I Kurzgesagt responds to Kurzgesagt
02:22 How far can a 3% go?
04:40 The non-response part of the response
07:52 Grants for translations
09:35 Does a sponsorship really not affect a video
13:12 II Their story: on shaping facts into stories
14:20 Our story: where they left off
17:43 Fact-checking and science: not as clear-cut kind of deal
21:00 Paltering: less-than-lying
22:50 Using sources as a rhetorical device
23:52 Is-ought problem: can science lead to politics?
24:40 III Mission: the most effective way of changing nothing
27:14 Effective altruism problem 1: Testability
30:02 Effective altruism problem 2: Maintaining the status quo
32:15 Effective altruism problem 3: Longtermism fails the most where it succeeds the most
37:15 A very human contrast to the longtermism ad
39:56 A personal note from pan s
42:27 Dark take on effective altruism: pragmatic inhumanity
45:31 IV Conclusion: the battle for long-term outlooks
49:16 TL;DR in 3 lenses
51:09 Final words
As the video said, Kurg is fine for documentaries. When he starts talking about controversial/poticially-related stuff, all red flags start going off.
Thanks for nutshelling it for me
Except for drug legalization. Private Prison corporations lobby to make weed illegal so more people will go to prison.
How is this different than anything else?
It's LE BAD because it doesn't pander to my insane opinions!
@@ghoulbuster1 oh hey kettle. its me pot!!
Bilionares have literally become james bond antagonists, but james bond doesn't exist
James Bond works for the State.
Turns out, his antagonists figured out long ago that it's best to let the State protect them rather than going against it...
Best buds.
@@xarvh Even without that stuff, James Bond is a really, uh... problematic character given some of the material.
@@xarvh the italian 1980's mafia-state pact be like
"I AM THE SENATE"
-Sheev Palpatine (a long time ago in a galaxy far far away)
It's the everyday people arround You who should act but they suck on a human and then intellectual level (so much, if You will ever know)
It's not completly their fault because we are manipulated on many things and from many sides which incapate us but still, noone would care that much for any savior/hero or James Bond or in other words: would cheer but won't lift a finger.
Billionaires have always been James Bond antagonists
I don't know how I ended up knee-deep in keeping up with drama I didn't know existed until like a week ago but it has been fascinating to see how people don't realize propaganda isn't some static thing and that it can be (and is) in everything. Weird how we've reached these rigid inflexible mindsets and views that don't allow for even the slightest bend.
Agree completely. It's making us dehumanize people who disagree with horrible consequences
@@SigFigNewton any research on how to minimize or inoculate against it?
It isn't that weird, that's just entirely how propaganda works
@@SigFigNewton no srry needed I'm glad I wanna check it out so ty👍
I recomend watching the first video that this guy mentions. Its pretty enlightening
Going from 0 to 1 is infinitely harder than going from 1 to 100. This is the crucial fact that a lot of these "self-made" mythmakers want to obscure
"To turn $100 into $110 is work. To turn $100 million into $110 million is inevitable." - Edgar Bronfman
And also that they didn't really create their wealth themselves, they just used it to coerce other people to do the work for them then ponctionning more wealth from their work.
@@SigFigNewton Being poor costs money, having money generates money. It's such a stupid backward way of doing things.
@@SigFigNewton Not sure what strong upside capitalism has. I mean, when you're not at the top of the pyramid.
Most of the stated benefits like efficiency or innovation are just not actually true.
You could argue that industrialism is the awful thing with some strong upsides, but industrialism doesn't require capitalism and is also well past the point of the upside outweighing the cost considering the state of the climate.
But things that are usually associated as benefits of capitalism like efficiency or innovation are more industrialism things (that came at the cost of a mad focus on productivity which has been bad both socially and ecologically), capitalism itself tend to stiffle innovation and be wildly innefficient (just look at railroad or energy companies that were public and opened to free market).
blue lock reference
@@Laezar1 This is why i always leaned towards socialism which is equally as bad but with one major benefit: "poor" people dont have to work 5 jobs to survive. Outcome is the same, rich get richer and poor stay poor, but at least there is that pretended care for everyone. If you arent dumb under socialism, you dont have to break your back to support a family. You wont be that well off but at least the state pretends it cares so you can keep paying taxes. Innovation and efficiency probably develop faster under capitalism but thats because the rich and powerful literally hold peoples lives in their bank accounts so the poor people dont really have a chance but to work hard.
Both systems are self destructive because people are greedy fucks. All systems will be self destructive until people stop being greedy fucks. I understand that its mostly greed that got us where we are in technology etc., but the greed should be for all of humanity, not just a few close ones. Its like these people have never seen a grand strategy game.
As a German it is not that easy to get offended.
German Humour is a testament to it.
Thats something we as brazillians share with you guys for sure! Stuff that would be slurs in the united states are ways we call known friends in a jokingly way.
@@CoqueiroLendario One of the most perpetually offended people I've ever had the misfortune of talking to online is Brazilian. We are not so different, you and I.
@@SaltpeterTaffy Well every tree has some bad fruits, no one is safe from being a bitch snowflake, but usually we bully hard those here.
@@SaltpeterTaffy one of the most perpetually offended people I’ve ever met was German.
@@Azurethewolf168 oh look! It’s almost like many well known stereotypes descend from irrational groupthink and outdated ideas like social Darwinism! It’s almost like there’s a bit of dissonance when we say Italians are lazy and emphasize leisure because that’s just what Southern Europeans are like and we say we’re not racist.
Essentialism is not a great idea!
6:52 this is such a subtle and poignant idea. There are countless creators working at a high skill level now because of global interconnectedness, so it's inevitable that new propaganda simply has to find the skilled creators that fit their exact viewpoints, then throw money at them to promote that idea.
UA-cam influencers are a godsend to big corporations. In the past, companies had to solve the problem of reaching people on the ground by appealing to their fears/desires/etc. while distancing themselves at the same time. Influencers solve that distancing problem by appearing to be ‘regular people’ that you might meet on the street. It’s been a massive windfall for propagandists and people are only starting to realize how insidious the influencer machine is on the marketing front.
At least it's more nuanced now. Back when it was just TV it was "you're allowed to work here because we like your opinions" and "and you don't get to work here because you say stuff that is not helpful to us".
@@daniel4647 And for every content creator like Kurzgesagt, how many on yt fail or struggle to make ends meet with the merciless platform capitalism? The inability to denounce the war crimes of Israel without masking titles and thumbnails is an example of this.
@@moscanaveia if you don't understand what led to the current situation in Israel, don't have such strong opinions.
While some people will call this sort of thing "UA-cam drama", it's important to look at science communicators and the underlying message they're attempting to convey. Well done, chaps. :)
The video is missing the point of itself. It's completely fine to make an opinionated UA-cam video and even for that video to be sponsored (as long as that's made clear) and it's also fine to critique the message of that opinionated UA-cam video. This is exactly how healthy discourse works and should work.
@@8isI agree. At least Kurzgesagt and Bill Gates try. This channel wastes effort in trying to soil that.
@@MrCaiobrz i don't think the intent of this video was to soil kurzgesagt's effort. in fact, i think it acts more like a supplement for viewers. the narrators talk about how they respect kurzgesagt's work, and also about how it's basically a mainstream media company now and that we could take a bit of caution when viewing their content.
@@MrCaiobrz "at least this billionaire does the bare minimum" like imagine how much he could do if Bill actually cared
@@ferretappreciator Don't forget to mention that while this billionnaire does the bare minimum, bankers kick people out of their homes for defaulting mortgage loans
Hi, coming from someone who deals with companies, do not trust kurzgesagt revenue numbers. Calculating revenues is extremely complex, and if you cook them one way or another you can come up with anything you want, even if you don't want to fake them.
For this precise reason, accounting and audits exist, and there are several rules to make sure the financial data provided by companies is accurate.
If no balance sheet was released, or audit was made, that really doesn't mean anything.
Interesting. Is there a resource you know of that goes more in depth on how revenue can be manipulated/distorted? Not experienced in financial auditing myself
@@pinkmann8399 Just look for references on forensic accounting.
@@pinkmann8399 I expect he's referring to how basically all financials issued by publicly listed companies have to adhere to IFRS or US GAAP (think metric vs imperial but for accounting). When financials are standardised like this, it becomes easier to compare one company against another.
I haven't looked at Kurzgesagt's financials yet but I presume they probably present their financials very differently which thus requires quite a bit more data transformation and guesswork to "convert" their figures to IFRS equivalent numbers.
@@devilex121 Have they ever released it publicly?
Agree. I'm not a numbers person at all, but I work as a designer/animator and oddly the higher ups in companies I've worked on trust me... A LOT. So they have given me the task of putting their numbers and data in "pretty" presentations for the board meetings, and by following their instructions on how to present the data, you can tottally bend the perception of those numbers without changing them.
46:40 "This answer just feels like an ad for Kurzgesagt, by Kurzgesagt"
Thank you, that's exactly how I felt watching that video
well the effective altruism argument of “the rich have to be saved/protected because they have the money to do good” breaks down when they don’t do any good with it.
also why cant we do good with their money ?
You know, they need to make MORE money, so they will do even MORE GOOD. Someday. In future. For sure.
You cannot do good with their money, because it is their money. Can I do good with your money Caipi2070? Leave other people’s money and make your own and then do good with it.
@@shadowgamer4306 Except their money was only earned off the backs of underpaid workers, when said CEOs and billionaires barely contributed anything other than an investment that's a drop in the bucket compared to their total wealth.
@@shadowgamer4306if a guy spent his life stealing most the money he has from everyone, would it really be his money? No it wouldn’t, billionaires aren’t self made, they make their money from robbing nations, scamming workers, and making more money from tax bailouts than they pay in taxes.
@@shadowgamer4306look at me. the billionares are NOT on your side. you can bootlick all you want but ultimately they will not help you. it is their money yes, but why can we NOT make them help people? who gave them the money in the first place? why is it “their” money and not for the community?
I missed this the first time I saw it but it fucking annoyed me when I finally noticed.
They added up the revenue from 2015-2022, a whole 8 years. It may seem like 10% from investments from billionaires seems like nothing, until you realize that 10% of 8 years means they got paid more than an entire fucking year's worth of income in this deal. Piggybacking the early days of ad revenue into the whole thing is super disingenuous. GIve us the numbers you had in JUST 2021 or 2022. Bet you that picture won't look as pretty.
true had the video been made a mere 1 or 2 years ago the percentage would be 12-15% and so on, let alone the cascade effect the funding had to future revenue.
And they had no influence on what the videos actually were? Bruh
They certainly had more impact than random people buying merch (out of whom they, overall, got far more money)
It might not be that cut and dry, cause their revenue has also been increasing over 8 years, but yeah they should have showed a graph or something instead of wrapping it all up together.
A lot of youtube channel teams start as groups of enthusiasts, who work on the content after their main work, where they make money for living. Dedicated ones may do it not just for 0.8 years, but for several years. So for people with great idea they believe in - it's not a game changer to have an early sponsorship. It just a pleasant addition, to what they are already willing to do.
Great video! Coming from a disabled perspective is interesting since you come to realize that you aren't usually part of billionaire futures. Pretending disabled people are sacrifices for the future dehumanizes us and completely ignores our role in society. We're not serving ourselves up for experimental and important research for some abstract "greater good". It doesn't matter if we're "useful" to capitalism, our families, friends and acquaintances who find value in us want to keep us alive, happy and healthy. Most of us wouldn't be alive if people hadn't thought disabled folks have intrinsic value and were worth giving a life, because value is ultimately defined by people.
That's funny, to me life is a negative, everyone should be sterilised and all parents prosecuted.
100%. I sure wouldn't be selected as one of the "fittest". We have to wonder what kind of society those precious future humans will have ended up with if we, humans who actually exist in reality right now, are out here making inhuman sacrifices for their supposed sake. (Why is later good greater good? Why is overall quantity of humans a number worth optimizing? Why is it so easy for me to imagine a tridecillion humans living in exploitation and degradation? But... number go up? The quantity doesn't make me feel better about it! Maybe I should try being more optimistic!)
A human life has value, but who gets to assign that value? If the value of a human life is assigned by the human themselves, then for that value to be positive, they have to be afforded the opportunities to explore possibility and define it for themselves-and you can't predict that, can't measure it-it's not 1 life = 1 value point. But if the value of a human life is assigned by some outside authority, then it doesn't matter what the quality of those lives is, only the quantity. I can think of a few yucky words to describe that way of doing things-there are a few different ways you can dress up atrocity.
It's not even good utilitarianism. Society iterates on society. "Do a little evil now for a shining future tomorrow" is like Pokémon bad guy level thinking. You can't just bootstrap a new world out of nothing, society is made of people, and people remember things. People are shaped by the evils they suffer and unhealed wounds are passed right on down the line. We already have a lot to answer (to ourselves) for. If we don't care for the people who exist with us right now, we have nothing to look forward to.
The irony of valuing humans of the far future so near-sightedly that you forget the human part.
if you know with 100% certainty that if you have intercourse with your partner you will produce a child that will be all his life in the most horrible pain and suffering would you decide to have intimacy and bring this child to the world?
@@a.39886 This is an horrible reduction of what being disabled mean. This approach also lead to people wanting to make disability disappear with genetics and all but in fact this will probably never happen as many disabled aren't born like this, so what you're effectively creating is a world that left disabled behind.
@@seiryn3082 did you read my commend?
While "Kurzgesagt bad and takes money from billionaires" is a good hook, I feel like it has skewed the discussion in an unhelpful way. A lot of people I shared your 2 videos with were focused on the funding part (with questions like "how do we decide who should be allowed to get funded and by whom?") instead of the problems of Kurz' view on the subjects at hand, and Kurz took advantage of this disconnect, of not seeing the forest for the trees
Kurzgesagt isn't *consciously* pushing some kind of narrative. To everyone but the centrists, when they push to educate and argue for what they believe is good in any political landscape, they're not viewing themselves as pushing a certain narrative using deceiving propaganda, they view themselves as simply telling the truth. The only truth that exists in politics is your own because, in truth, there is no objectivity in politics. This is the core of the centrists' worldview where they identify a problem and apply what works regardless of any moral principles like everyone on the right or left does.
Wtf lizard of oz
imo that video isn't about "ohh these influencers should not receive any money from billionaires" but it's more about they should be more transparent with us, simply saying "This funding won't change us" isn't enough but we also need to know what that funding entails.
@@irvanray1898 they are not govt officials they don't owe you or this guy shit. But yeah he can make his boring commentary leeching of the drama
@@FlymanMS "they are not govt officials they don't owe you or this guy shit" what skewed, defensive point of view, comment.
Are they trying to "forward" the science behind things to the public? Do they have a certain level responsibility?
Your message addressed to yourself in the past hitted me like a truck. Thank you for producing such a wonderful and necessary content. All the best from Brazil!
the "conservative" estimate that humans will exist for another million years made me laugh out loud.
that whole segment was hella dystopian
What force do you think can actually kill all humans?
That's honestly pretty likely
@@MouldedMindhumans
@@MouldedMind us
This brings up multiple important topics, and I'm glad you cover it in depth.
Reaching the German audience probably isn't on the top of your list.
(Especially considering that Kurzgesagt has long been an international name at this point, and that another big part of the German audience decently understands English.)
But if you're interested in getting German subtitles, I'd gladly help out.
Sure, we'd love to! We should have the English ones up soon.
@@t3essays as a hard-of-hearing individual interested in this video, it is good to hear that subtitles will be added!
If you would like spanish subtitles i will gladly help too!
@@Water-dnfu The subtitles are now out!
@linkEX and @Noname, could you contact us at t3essays@gmail.com?
One of my favourite channels on climate change hands down. Love you guys, always a pleasure to listen to what you have to share.
Your favourite channel on climate change is a channel that says "lers keep doing the same shit we're doing"? No wonder, it's just easier to lay down and do nothing than to actually admit the problems that exist and solve them.
@@LittleBigPoet I think they're referring to this channel, homie.
@@UGNJake That would be even worse.
Climate change is made up bro stop believing in that bs
This channel has absolutely no videos on climate change, quite the contrary, it spits vain philosophy at those actually trying
Those Kurzegesagt animations you repurposed fit so well! Amazing video!
Prioritizing the safety of who "can" do the most good is fallacious. It's who "will" do good that matters for someone really fixed on that philosophy.
A small takeaway from this for individuals might be this: Prioritize your relationships with those who seem more authentic, well-to-do, and thoughtful. Always criticize those who have the capacity to do good. Consider if the ways individuals and collectives spend resources are actually justified, and actually talk with people about it. Examine what real motives are driving action and explore ideas and practices on how to make things better and how to hold people and systems accountable.
"Always criticize those who have the capacity to do good." I disagree with this. People are inherently free and that means they're not just free to do what *I* want but, even more importantly, that also means they are free to do what I *don't want* as long as they don't infringe on anyone else's right to do what *they want.*
And what if what someone wants to do ensures that you have less and less ability and freedom to do what you want to do? And what if their own freedom to do what they want to do expands despite yours decreasing, to the point where even if you want to be able to do something, you could not and cannot?
Rights are lovely things to talk about, but they are only statements about what the State cannot prevent you from doing. They say nothing about if the State has afforded you any capacity to do anything at all, and considering we are all the maintainers and lifeblood of the State, the fact that our *capacities* are diminishing under an institution that depends on us to exist reveals a backwards situation.
So no, it's not about freedom being bad, or that people shouldn't be free to do what you or I do not want them to do. It's that we cannot stop at just this expectation of them simply not being allowed to infringe on others *rights* to do what we please, we need to ensure that whatever they want to do, it does not take away from others *capacities* to do what they want to do. And, if it turns out that ones Capacity to do something comes at the expense of someone being unable to do something else, then we will have a serious moral dilemma here about the question of a worth of one person against the next, and the justification of priority -- And the answer cannot simply be first-come-first-take, because the entire moral of this story I have been painting to you, is Rights are only words next to real world capacities. If our capacity diminishes to nothing as an expense of a small portion of people gaining all capacity in the world, and if our health and wellbeing even suffers because of this, we have a problem. @@8is
@@paimon1250 You're conflating abilities and rights. A right says nothing about whether or not you have the ability to do something, only that if you have the ability, it is your right to be able to do that something or not. You might *feel* it's unfair if you want to buy a specific house and there is someone else who can afford to place a higher bid than you. So you might think it would be more fair if it was a coin toss between you and the other guy so each would have an equal chance of getting to buy the house. But remember, that's not what the owner of the house wants, and more importantly, it is *his* house and as such he has the right to do what he wants with it in accordance with the right to private property. Imagine a world where everything you owned, created and worked for aren't truly yours and can be arbitrated by a force you haven't consented to; that's the definition of unfairness and goes against your rights.
@@8isyou know that rights arent real, right? We made them up. Well, not all of us -- a select few of us with money, power, and privilege. Rights are nothing but pretty words made up by haves to trick the have nots into ignoring reality.
*Edit: typo
@@8is You have basically summed up capitalism and it is tied to the problem at hand. This mentality of "as long as I'm not affected" is exactly how we got to this point in the first place. It's fine though, it's just human nature.
I didn't watch the Kurz video, but I read the text based version they published. It didn't really rebut the point that they are politically unsound and still managed to try and guilt trip me into buying more things I simply don't need.
i also seen MoistCr1TiKaL react to these topic, and not surprisingly those big streamer all run defense for the billionaire. They all downplay the fact the research is cherry picked like it's a normal thing, and than conclude there isn't a strong evidence for billionaire influence on the video.
@@noirto2 Stopped watching MoistCr1tikal after I realized that he was basically mainstream edgy and always agreed with whatever the majority said. I see he has worsened since then.
@@unocualqu1era That's a very confrontational and dishonest way of saying that he's a normal guy with normal opinions. Not everyone has to be out there. It's fine if you don't like him now, though.
@@sorrymyenglishbad2535 long winded way of saying a bootlicker that lacks critical thinking, which is par for the course of being a big streamer
@@Celene1312 I don't know, it seems like most people say he lacks critical thinking because he doesn't have the same opinions on them on issues. And that feels disingenuous to me.
Awesome video as always! Very thought-provoking and well put together!
As a german, I can speak for the whole of my country when I say that everone hates the Deutsche Bahn. Decades of a strong car industry that invites politicians to dinner have lead to the railway network being broken saved
Nah I hate the csu-ministers who are mainly responsible
In the US we have "freeways" and for the most part they are free to use. We used to have nationwide railroads in the past but now we have a trash system except maybe in the Northern US(New York-Boston-Philadelphia). How is it in Germany
@@basedgamerguy818Usable in theory, it gets you nearly everywhere. The problem is that it's so unreliable, that you can't use it if you have to be somewhere in time
2 mins in and your disclaimer that its still fine to watch kurz has removed all my stress about all this. Thank you so much.
After seeing their “Climate Change Hope” video I realised they’re full of it. One example of misleading statements in that video is when they say “solar is up in the UK while coal is down”.
They made it sound like solar is replacing coal - but what they don’t say is that all that coal is being replaced by burning oil and the increase in solar is a tiny amount compare to the UK’s overall energy use.
And there’s no way at all they didn’t know that when making the video, because when you’re actually looking at the statistics it’s obvious.
I was so eager to hear you guys response haha
Edit: WELL DONE GUYS. Very strong right out of the ‘Gates’
😂never stop.
Man these videos are hard to get through, i dont know why, but i really really love them
Keep up the awesome job! You and your videos are 10/10. Love you guys.
I really love these videos, they're so well laid out!
Me for the most part: This is incredible. I was waiting for a continuation of your previous video about this issue that does not happen only with Kurzkesagt and really gives light to many stuff like ethics in such cases. You have surpassed yourself with this one.
Me at the end after kimochi yamete: 💀
Being serious now, it was an excellent video.
Man, it's somewhat a shame that the hated one video got more popular, as it overshadows yours. And your videos are infinitely better imo.
Hope this comment pleases the almighty algorithm and recommends your video to more people.
It was really disappointing for me seeing that most of the controversy was related to The Hated One's video because that one was much more confrontational and polarizing rather than trying to get real conversation. When each side villainizes the other, debate becomes meaningless (one of the best examples is US poltical debates) and rather than trying to sway those in the middle with calm arguments tries to simply pull those already on their side even further.
@@batcrow6224 I agree. TheHatedOne's video just seemed to be more unpleasant to watch for me because it felt more like "kurzgesagt is very big evil because they get monies from bil gats" to the point that it was kind of hard to actually tell what they're specifically arguing about or why that's bad.
This video is the opposite of that. It's calm, slow, and clearer, which allows me to actually figure out why Bill Gates funding Kurzgesagt is controversial. I think the reason why many people are defending Kurzgesagt without much discussion is because TheHatedOne's video was just hard to watch because it just felt like random points loosely tied together, especially if you are a fan of Kurzgesagt (like me).
Better? it's 50 minutes of seething
I think what makes the Kurzgesagt videos very powerful propaganda is if you're not very careful, it's very easy to miss the premises upon which the whole argument is built on. Which is "growth is good". It is true that growth is required for the current system to continue, but there is no requirement that the current system continues for people to be happy (and you can easily argue the current system isn't really making people happy either).
I imagine you think little of GDP, but what about other measures of growth?
How about nighttime illumination? That’s a measure of growth used by economists, but it very clearly directly measures a type of utility improvement.
@@cephalosjr.1835 I'm not him, but if I would be tasked to see how much better a country is doing I'd ask the citizens directly: Do you perceive your life has gotten better the last year? 5 years? 10 years?
Add those together, and you got what I consider the sort of measure that actually matters.
@@alonsoACR But when happens when that fails to track with very real measures of life improvement, like growth in reported happiness?
@@cephalosjr.1835 If growth didn't impact people's well-being, it's ultimately irrelevant and just another statistic.
Of course, I'm seeing this purely in a humanitarian aspect. Like Kant said, humans are an end in themselves, not a means.
People will not be happy, never.
More voices of dissent are needed please before we all fall off a cliff. Thank you for contributing.
As someone who was flashed 1977 when Punk made my life great again, I thank you for bringing Solrpunk to my knowledge. Like your videos a lot.
Its good to see both sides of the argument
Came across this channel recently and it has already become one of my favorite channels. Your video style, level of research and overall content is phenomenal. Looking forward to more videos in the future on more varied topics.
Their propaganda was bugging me before people pointed it out and I'm glad some people have been proactive enough to point it out
Ditto.
This channel is a gem
Great work guys. This kings of content in UA-cam gives me hope 🖤💚
I'm only 14 minutes into this video. I've been a kurzegesagt fan for many years. I found this channel "Think this through" when you guys made that first Kurzegesagt criticism video. From what I can see in the first 14 minutes, I largely agree. It felt like Kurze was giving a huge non-answer. They're pretty, colorful, edutainment without much critical thought.
Personally, I found out about Our World in Data, perhaps 2 years ago. Maybe the most worrisome thing about OWID is that it's an example of a very rich & powerful guy choosing how lots of people see society. Essentially, if we control what or which data is measured, then we control what people observe, and if we control what they observe, then we control their whole reality. It's a worrisome topic, and I don't know if it's something we can even get around. Don't all systems of thought have this problem? I don't know. It's a philosophical issue. Is there a good or even best system that guides itself in a completely open & transparent manner? I don't know if that hits every problem, but at least it's a good starting point.
There is nothing wrong about what Our World in Data does. At the worst, they provide data that just shows how the status quo is improving our lives in certain ways. And perhaps this is useful to billiares to justify their existence, but to counter that, perhaps this is simply the *truth* and that that is useful to the billionaire the same way it's useful to you and me.
@@8is
It is good that I didn't say there is anything wrong with OWID. I said it's worrisome how OWID works because managing what counts as data and interpreting it is a big responsibility. How do we independently check or verify this massive amount of data and interpretation? I am not saying it's wrong. I'm saying OWID needs multiple third-party verification, many layers of peer-review, an intersection of these two, or more in order for it to be a well-trusted source of knowledge.
It would be nice if it were all the truth, and what's more, a flavor of truth that lacks bias or any other kind of conscious, unconscious, or semi-conscious manipulation. Like I said, though, I think this is a philosophical problem with all structures of knowledge. It is perhaps an inescapable law. I must learn to be content with less-than-perfect structures of knowledge. Perhaps Gates is an overall good guy: I hope so.
@@Paraselene_Tao It is good that I didn't say that you said that there is anything wrong with OWID. Our World in Data has and continuous to be under scrutiny, that's how the scientific process works and how we expand the very limiting knowledge and understanding of the world. In the end, it's simply up to you to listen to enough information, criticisms, defences, etc. to make up your own mind about the validity of all sources. Most people simply believe what they want to since it is all too easy to paint whatever picture you want onto this world, but we should still strive to do better anyways.
MGS2 moment
@@tommyvercetti9434
Damn, I've been meaning to play that series. I've seen a lot of bits of that series. I might have to watch/listen to a playthrough soon. I wish I could carve out the leisure time to play these important games. I considered waking up at 4 so I could spend 2 hours before my regular morning routine. I already listen to lectures, podcasts, and books while I work throughout the day. I just want a bit of that time I had as a teenager to play some games and savor the experience of interacting with a whole, imaginary world and its story & narrative. Thanks.
Thank you so much for making this amazing video!
A palter is basically what I liked to do as a child. My mom wuld ask me if I "took a bath" and I would just said "Yeah, I did." because my mom did not ask if I "took a bath _today"_ so I would intentionally not mention that I only took a bath yesterday.
Why, do you ask? Well, why would I? She never asked if it was today or not so why bother mentioning the time?
Nowadays, I know paltering is basically terrible and people who do it are sh*t human beings.
thank you for doing the work to show out to an English audience. i love your videos, so thoughtful, sincere, low key funny, and very very clearly explained. thanks!
Lol wtf, I'm argentinian and hearing "Rosamonte Suave" from you felt so weird. Thanks for this video... It's eye-opening and really needed. Hope it gets the views it deserves.
BadEmpanadas video on them is important and worth watching.
He was accused of coming off as abrasive and pugilistic but to me it just reads as urgent. He intentionally waited until nearly the end of the video until mentioning their Gates backing and yet in their reply in the comments that's basically all they talked about lmao
Not only did he leave that issue till the end, he literally says why he did that and that his video was specifically designed to make people focus the problems with their video on its own merit before talking about the likely reasons why there are those problems
@Wemple’s Temple Because these "green growth" ideas don't stand up to any rigorous intellectual scrutiny, at least not if your goals are to provide as sustainable and comfortable a life to as many people as possible. They can't do anything honest in this realm because it would completely upend what they're ideologically and financially motivated to do.
Kurz commented on bad empinada's video and then deleted it and ran off. Talk about targeting small creators, kurz doesnt have any respect for anyone on youtube.
Excellent presentation, thank you for putting this together. Subscribed!
This video does one of the things well that really put me off from The Hated One's video. It mentions that Kurzegesagt is a large, privately owned company that is subject to a lot of mainstream whims of content. It also mentions that this is not inherently good or bad while The Hated One's video is clearly trying to stir up controversy. It maintains the fact that in the end, Kurzegesagt has human creators, and humans are imperfect so there will be many situations where they will lie (whether directly or by omission) in order to make sure they can pass on their opinions. Any political video (or even argument video in general) should be taken with skepticism but that doesn't mean that Kurzegesagt, like this video stated, doesn't do some good things even in their more problematic videos. Great and very well-researched and thought out video!
This could all be solved if people just agreed that unsustainable growth is bad...
don't you mean perpetual growth?
@@GAPIntoTheGame yeah lol. I meant to write unsustainABLE.
Bad is relative. Billionaire don't care if they destroy the ecosystem, cause mass population loss. Looking at their actions it seems they are actually doing everything to hurry those things along
Love this as a follow-up video, this channel is great!
Kant's view of lying always annoyed me. Why yes, the man you want to brutally murder IS hiding in my house. Wouldn't want to be immoral and lie about that now would I?
Well, that's what deontology is. Caring about the act, not the outcome. Consequentialism is caring about the outcomes, not the act.
Also feel like it should be pointed out 3% over a 7 year period isn't low. That's 3% of total income from one source.
Compared to 40% from the shop
propaganda is everywhere
Or as they say: "certain voices are amplified by certain people"
@@zyansheep just say jews
Great video! and as always explaining the topic with insight! I m glad I m subbed 👍
I feel like a lot of effective altruism really only takes into accout potential good without taking into account potential and real evils.
For example a billionaire could do the most good, but them simply existing causes a lot of bad, such as how they pollute a lot more than the average person, or how they influence democracies in a bad way
Any facts to go along with your analysis?
@@wiredvibe1678The richer you are the more you pollute because being wasteful becomes easier,you can afford to waste more food,more energy,more space,more water than you need because you have money.Moreover,most if not all billionares have one primary objective: making more money, so they will invest in the most profitable markets, which will always be the most polluting,at least until the world's natural resources don't run out,but in that case it will be too late.There is no such thing as a good or bad billionare,they downright shouldn't exist.Remember,the more money you have the more power you have,the more power you have the more damage your wrong doings do to the world around you.
@Alberto Guerra idk man, I don't subscribe to your subscribe to your cult and I doubt I can talk some sense into you.
Personally I feel blessed that I am lucky enough to experience life in this era of technology and knowledge. If I was born in the past I would have likley been a slave or brutalized in some other way be it by other humans or just nature.
Give me some examples of human organization that will produce all the modern comforts I we enjoy, and lift billions out of poverty, and constantly and continually improve our lives... without producing income inequality? Can you do that? Or are your suggestions rehashings of tired ideas that have resulted in brutal and horrific outcomes for millions in the past?
@@wiredvibe1678 I'm not saying the past was better, in fact this system is far superior than what we used in the past,what i'm saying is that the system for what it is now is not perfect and has flaws that have to be solved to guarantee our well being on this planet. We are not in the 50s anymore, the system has to adapt to the changes that it has made to the world (oil is going to run out at some point,and we need to be ready).One fundamental problem of the free market is that there is a tendency to amass wealth in the hands of few people (it is inevitabile,the more money a company has the more it can make and it has more chances of not going bankrupt),and this is a problem,because not only this impoverishes the rest of the population, but it gives a lot of (economical) power to few people, which really isnt very different from what they did in the middle ages (not a good prospect for our future if you ask me).Of course changes have to be gradual,we cant just do communism like they did in Russia,but we can start by taxing the rich,doing some welfare and reorganizing our cities to make them less car-dependant and more energy efficient (this for example will be lobbied against by every car manifacturing company,but it is essential if we want to transition to renewables,it is impossibile for every human on earth to drive electric cars)
@@wiredvibe1678 To be fair, your response to this point is a bit disingenuous. Sure, capitalism has gotten us a lot of cool and fancy things, but the point is that systems SHOULD change with time and continually improve, not stagnate into this whole "free market" thing for the rest of time - because then inequality does get worse.
This is kind of like if you were in the medieval ages. "Personally I feel blessed that I am lucky enough to experience life in this era of technology and knowledge. If I was born in the past I would have likely been part of a tribe without religion and basic agricultural tools, currency, where everyone's just hitting each other with rocks and being in tribes."
"Give me some examples of human organization that will produce all the bread and huts we enjoy, and lift billions out of survival in the wild, and constantly and continually improve our lives... without producing kings that can order everyone around and where their children remain in power just because they're born from the king? Or are your suggestions rehashings of tired ideas that have resulted in brutal and horrific outcomes for millions in the past?
and so on and so on. We (or most of us) are no longer living in a monarchy, why do we still need to live in this flawed system?
This video is a little old, but as a massive youtube scince nerd who TOUGHT i was doing a good job of ballancing Philosophy classes with my science classes, this was a horifying wake up call. Thank you for this.
If this was a wake up call, then you'll have a lot of wake up calls before you. First when you realize how fear mongering makes people stupid shit cond when you realize how this is fear mongering.
the truth about kurzgesagt that I've struggled to put my finger on. subbed.
Always great to see a video from you
I'm stealing the term "glucose guardian" 🤣
As someone who knows about the German school system the whole “dropped out of Highschool and went to school for dropouts” story is a joke. I don’t even think it’s a translation error I just think he tried to make his story sound more grandiose
Thanks for the content
I was hoping for someone to respond to Longtermism. Valuing the future the same as the present while also pretending like we can know whether an action will be good or bad for the future while also caring about the sum of Human happiness rather than the average is just too extreme of an ideology, and it is obvious that it can lead to atrocities when followed through.
It was an eye-opener to me. As I watched that part of the video I realized I believed in this narrative without ever actively thinking about it, I've never even heard of effective altruism. But now, when I see it for what it is, I'm horrified. And even more scary is the fact that I believed it unconsciously. What other harmful beliefs I might have, just because I grew up in culture soaked in it. I definitely need to dig deeper at this.
This is quite possibly the most well phrased yet least reasoned comment I've ever seen. Between legitimately advocating for a high time preference & not understanding outliers still heavily impact averages its amazing how convincingly you managed to phrase it. I mean seriously, consider a career as a politician or science communicator because it's genuinely impressive just how carefully this comment phrases just outright horribly thought through principles.
@@felixjohnson3874 I understand that my stances aren't universally agreed, but I would really like to hear where you see a lack of reasoning in them:
Stance 1.
Happiness matters for each Human being, so it shouldn't be summed. A still flawed, but far less catastrophic approach would be to look at the average happiness of all Humans who start to exist.
Stance 2.
Humanity cannot predict whether an action or ideology will minimally lower or drastically raise Humanity's risk of extinction within the next 500 years, let alone long-term. For example, longtermism itself may cause a wave of self-sacrifice, austerity, and depression, which could cause a collapse of the economy and the sciences, leaving us too far behind to redirect an asteroid in the 29th century. We cannot know whether this is more likely or less likely than the desired effect of preventing Human extinction.
Stance 3.
It is psychologically impossible for Humans to value the far future to the same extent as the present. This is important because if a policy or ideology tries to go against Human intuition while demanding too much, the likeliest effect is destabilization and regress, which even according to longtermism itself would leave Humanity vulnerable to extinction events.
Lol. Wit? U r dum.
A great video once again! Really wish I had the funding to become your glucose guardian.
'Billionaires can't make financial sacrifices but poor people are expendable.' Kurzgesagt basically
amazing video keep em coming
I've always heard what they refered to as a palter called a half-truth or lie by omission
People that make valid criticisms are rarely addressed by people "in" with the present order of things. I appreciate that you keep laying it on them despite that, keep it up.
Man I usually don't watch longer videos but this one just went quickly. I've been thinking a lot about these topics without being able to pinpoint a cohesive train of thought. Nice work!
Have you ever thought of not having a stick figure with motion blur? It makes my eyes focus on an infinite void behind me and the only reason I'm getting through this video is because I can alt tab to literally anything else and listen.
Nicely made response t3 ,always felt like somethings missing from kurz response, and kurz deflecting the billionaire funding point felt a bit iffy when ppl were talking about the implications of the funding not the amount
Ps: loved the new word paltering, would come in handy in the future :D
they be teaching us english words and I like it
it is so refreshing and hope-inspiring, as a (north-)eastern european, to hear (central-)eastern european voices speaking about these things in this way. with the current political attitudes on this end of the eu it's easy to feel isolated in having leftist beliefs, but finding this channel reminded me that there are like-minded people even among the overwhelming amount of conservative sentiment. fantastic video, i really appreciate what you guys are doing ❤
I'm eastern European and this would probably be a dumb question but which countries would be north - eastern and central- eastern? :')
@@RACOONAFIED i dont think there's a set definition for eastern europe that everyone agrees on, not one that i'm aware of at least ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ the baltic states for example are referred to as both northern europe and eastern europe depending on who you ask; similar logic with warsaw pact member states that werent occupied by soviet russia - central europe to some, eastern to others. for me it comes down to self identification :^) i dont want to lump everyone to the east of germany into this one category cause i know people around here that don't identify with the eastern european label, yknow? so i add a distinction like that :^) not a dumb question at all, eastern europe is an ambiguous term
You‘re all just east european
@@personalbranddatayes, this is why they add the European part on the end and also how categories work.
Waited for this to stop being a premier, looking forward to watching this now.
Thank you for making this important video.
you are the only creator(s) which I looked up on patreon after watching the first kurzgesagt video. watched it in one session and was obsessed with what you had to say. made my friends watch it too lol
i like the length of your videos and appreciate the time you take to build up your points. thank you for everything you have done so far!
much support from germany
Lovely job guys!
It's so funny that i was thinking the same thing when i saw the last kurg video and now i see i'm not the only one lmaoo💀
This video is eye opening. I used to enjoy Kurzgesagt videos some time ago, but before today I couldn't put my finger on the weird feeling of that content just... promising something just out of arms reach. Telling magnificent stories of the future, that bear no relevance on life today. So much inspiration to keep viewers hoping, working, contributing... at this point, it's just eerie. They really went downhill right just before pandemic broke out (the most recent), as personally, I wouldn't find their videos as engaging anymore, given how during that troubling time collective problems really weighed down on my mind and, since I stopped then believing, that a society could course correct itself, it just wouldn't jam with usual upbeat and cheerful tone of those videos. If before my response to the fact, that Sun is going to blowing up in 5 million years was "oh no, what are we gonna do?", then today that response would be "so what, neither of us are capable of thinking past next 50 years"
Paltering!
It's the word I've been waiting for! I now have a way to express this phenomena!
Great video (and this is coming from a huge Kurzgesagt fan). I love how Polish youtube is basically HOMM 3 Castle town 🤣
Lol whats with poland and heroes of might and magic 3? Not gonna lie, i understand, having played hundreds of hours myself
@@sideeggunnecessary Short version is that the game was and is immensely popular. There are country championships held every year that are pretty competitive and gather attention.
The real long version could be quite a long video dissecting memes and culture, clash of generations and rupture far bigger than generation gaps in western Europe (or at least so it seems to me). Now, I can say only from my observation and experience (as a Polish guy, I'll add) but there are a few sites or fanpages even on facebook that make variety of memes - some lighthearted so to say, other as a sort of commentary on current political affairs, mostly concerning Poland but if major enough then also world and throughout last year also a lot about cheering Ukraine and mocking russian state aparatus. And HOMM3 turned out be surprisingly potent in mocking politicians (politically here it's quite a... clownfiesta, because I lack better word to describe it without getting really vulgar) so occasionly some best memes started getting reposted elsewhere and non-HoMM3 focused pages and individuals also started making a meme or two in this style.
And why Castle town screen? Well, that's how actually how our conservative governement of a overwhelmingly catholic country views what Poland is, was or should be. I wish I were exaggerating greatly, but it's only a bit if at all. One question is if being freaking Castle xD is even desirable and other is if it is any true and surprise surprise - it is not, because the country is littered with ugly banner and neons that serve as a cover for socioeconomic structure and combative+full of complexes mentality that many experience and some even (and still) cultivate.
The other town you can see a lot, especially with coming of winter, is Necropolis, with particular focus on Shroud of Darkness building (I think that how it was called in English) to reflect the smog issues and generally massive air pollution and perhaps even to allude to how healthy our nation is (like the citizens of Necropolis no less xd).
Accidental lecture in memes.
Thanks for the video!
i like the art style you used for the character :o
4:55 So how is it propoganda, to work with a sponsor they already would've agreed with, and would've made videos on irregardless of the sponsorship??
This video is pretty clear- the sponsorship amplifies select voices that are saying what they want to be said over other voices that do not. This has the effect of artificially making certain viewpoints more succesful, amd allowing those viewpoints to reach more people than the viewpoints of those counter to the sponsor. This can be because of genuinely held beliefs of the content creator, or because the content creator takes on viewpoints that will attract sponsors. Either way, it has the effect of putting views to a wider audience that would not otherwise have them in order to influence the opinions of viewers. It is definitely a broad approach to propaganda, but I think their explanation is at least defensible.
wonderful video, im glad youre explaining things so well for an idiot like me
For those who are into Science Fiction: Star Trek: Deep Space Nine provided a pretty good criticism of Longtermism in the episode: "Statistical Probabilities".
As a german: Quality bash of Kurzgesagt, Die Bahn and our Autobahn.
Here is your free beer ticket.
UA-cam shadowbanning videos like this
We approve constructive criticism in this area!!!
This videos are crucial to keep the conversation going
The first 10 Minutes are basically:
Kurzgesagt addressed critics regarding their funding, focusing on their response to The Hated One. They delved into the debate on "green growth" and their association with Gates-funded organizations. Critics argue their sponsorship influences their messaging. While they claim independence, their research ties to Gates-funded groups raise questions about bias.
on top of that, they started out with lots of money from bill gates...
Really good. It makes some extrapolations that only works if i ignore logic, but monstly really well made video.
What kind of extrapolations?
After I got some knowledge on Electricity production chains and general Energy generation - whole Kurz/Bill narrative collapse under their own ignorance.
Already agreeing is how... Any funding works... Whether it's a billionaire or you...
Yeah absolutely brilliant video, thank you
I had noticed that kg had some videos that are strangely propagandist, but didn't know what was the reason... Makes sense now.
Thanks.
why is it that critics so often like to couch their arguments in sarcastic straw-men scenarios?
Regarding longtermism: it is an interesting fact that the Nazis did actually make that argument about the war effort. Families of fallen soldiers got a letter with an illustration of a tree explaining that while individual leaves may wither away, the stem will survive and prosper because of it
this video saved my life ty
Oh come on, the Bonn / autobahn joke was funny!
Honestly, if the world would just shift more towards nuclear energy and push for hybrid vehicles across the board where applicable (regulations on SUVs and trucks would be a good start since they arent even legally defined as cars), we'd be in a much better place in terms of our carbon footprint.
Agreed, nuclear is the solution.
Nuclear is a part of the solution but isn't viable in the short term. Also hybrid vehicles are just as bad as gas ones and won't come close to the solution. We need better public transit and, preferably but not necessarily, to ban cars completely.
@@dropyourselfwrong
@@NoSaysJo the nuclear part or the public transit part?
Nuclear all the way. It's the most practical energy source so far. Maybe in the future, renewable energy like wind and solar might come up to that level, but right now, nuclear is most favorable.
I love this channel! Love from Greece!
Very good in-depth video!
That s a very neat word. Thanks my guy. Interesting video ! I am now proud to be part of your audience now
Greetings from a South!
The same concept applies to campaign donations: When politicians say they've never met their donors, that might as well be true - because they don't have to. All they have to do is bend their campaign towards plutocratic interests to improve their chances of receiving campaign donations.
Also, keep in mind: In general, the process of becoming rich is bound to increasingly select for people with a mode of operation focused on becoming richer the greater the riches involved. What's the likelihood of someone who's amassed *dozens of billions* to suddenly pivot and start spending their riches on helping people instead of exploiting them?
The same would go for a culture centered around extreme longtermism that focuses on exploitation of people in the present for people in the future: What are the conditions for that culture to pivot and start caring for the people in the present? When would it finally apply all that accumulated happiness, the crystallized tears of all those sacrificed, stored in the materials and immaterials of its mighty, intergalactic civilization?
The same is true to journalists, or any HR team in general - filtering on entrance is way more effective than changing anyones mind.