You have a point there. Some games would simply get boring after a while if not for the mods. Take Rimworld or Skyrim for example. Their great modability is what keeps the playerbase going, as with each new mod a player can experience an entirely new journey.
@@MrPablosek it‘s not even the boring part. They can do stuff which developers can‘t. They create content which with stuff from Star Wars, GOT etc. the games would cost thousands of bucks if they would get all the licenses.
Modders are volunteers yes, but this is going a step further because in this case they aren't just adding stuff into a finished game because they want to, they're volunteering to finish and improve an incomplete game that the development team dropped and is now wanting to revive. There's a fine line, but it's not quite the same thing as modders for Skyrim or RimWorld or even Bannerlord because that still is being worked on by Taleworlds.
I'm surprised this wasn't mentioned in the video or comments, but one of the contributors to the community edition (Gwindalmir) already gave a good explanation for why things are they way they are with all this right now. To summarize: Both contributors work day-jobs where it would be considered illegal to accept payment from a foreign entity (which to them, Keen would be). So instead, they made an arrangement with Keen to have any additional revenue generated by ME be used as a 'budget' for things that they might not have easy access to in the community edition development (assets, keen developer time, etc). Gwin goes into much better detail on this. You can find his full post on the comments section of the Steam Post that originally announced the Community Edition. I strongly recommend reading it if you haven't already.
Thank you for giving a fuller picture and not trying to . . . . what that comment say . . . . . turn this into a "Pearl grab". Keen really did do something that was really cool and are for now handling the aftereffects quite swell.
It's in the word Volunteer for this one, Keen isnt making anyone work for their game they allowed people to improve on it if it's their passion to do so. This would be like needing to pay mod makers because they improve on the game out of passion. Sales increase or not the people are volunteering to do this without money as an incentive. This is a good call on Keen to allow people to work on the game they like when their resources are pooled into their other projects. This whole ordeal is pearl clutching to the extreme.
It's in the principle, though. Modders in games often enhance already good (or at least properly finished) games, meanwhile this is more akin to relying on free labor to finish up their unfinished, abandoned project. Modding for a game and picking up the slack for a company that doesn't care about their game as much as you do are two different things. They love the game and so they volunteer to develope it because the actual developers that are getting paid for it won't.
@@blame7121 Well, it's either that or the game falls to the wayside and NOTHING happens with it. No mods, no development, etc. At least this way it can continue on and may become something much better.
people need to worry less about a double-niche game making money. ME is not gona make them rich, heck the few extra sales that come from this move might not even cover the servercosts for the next few years. just be happy they gave the community the sourcecode to work with.
I do not see a problem here. The devs are doing more than most. How many devs just abandon titles altogether. They are allowing this game to continue to grow and are even offering resources to do so. I wish all games were developed this way. The community will always put in more vision and effort than the game developer who is chasing profit.
Mods are basically the same thing in my eyes. You may not get much more downloads from mods alone but they do extend the time spend on the game by many players.
The problem is that they're going to put time and effort into it...and get nothing. Would you go scrub toilets for hours on end, days at a time, for free?
@@DoremiFasolatido1979 As I understand it no one is forcing them to do this work. I would not scrub toilets because I do not have a passion for it. Modders do what they do because they are passionate about it. They get joy out of breathing new life into a game. Many modders end up getting offers to work for some of these companies. If you do something and enjoy it then you are getting something and maybe thats enough for them.
The people mad about it clearly aren't the people that wanted ME to have its source code released by Keen for years. KSH has done basic exactly what we asked for
Sounds like the devs were put in a lose/lose situation when you look at it like this. They don't release the source code, people get pissed. They do release the source code and people get pissed. I think this is fine, if no one WANTS to work on this, then don't. If you do, now you have the opportunity. I wish people would focus more on the positives these days. Either way, always appreciate your takes on these situations and you make great videos that are relaxing and easy to watch. Cheers.
I think the people who are pissed were thinking "release the source code" meant Kean washes their hands of the game and makes it open source. Them releasing the source code but still making money from the game is a third possibility I didn't realize was option. Though so long as Keen really is providing useful resources like server time to the modders and helping the game improve faster than it could on its own as a freeware project I suppose they earned making a bit of money.
well tbh if they didn't want to make the game for "free", well they don't have too. That's the point of being a volunteer, you don't need to do anything. Though I do think that if the game really kicks off, they should thank them. Maybe by hiring or giving them a % of income. Either way, these volunteer's are just Modder's really. Modders don't really get anything aside from donations.
A bit of behind the baseball, Equinox is a friend of mine, he said that there is a deal in place for the potential of community edition getting profitable
all keen is doing is just giving the community the tools to improve and make a better game they couldn’t care less if the game makes them money and frankly they have made a very good descision that in this day and age you never seen
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People should absolutely chill about this. The volunteers are not kids, they know what they are doing. I'd absolutely love to get the source-code for a lot of games that have been abandoned by their developers even if that means them making a profit out of it.
I think spending your personal time to work on a passion project is awesome; even if it doesn't have the goal of making money. I like what the developers did because gamers will benefit and if the developers help in any way financially by providing servers, tech support etc, It would increase the chance of success. Good for gamers; and possibly a good financial end for the company if the collaboration works well.
The question is, does it stay open-sourced? A great example of a game exploding in content and creativity is Veloren. Veloren is an open-sourced, and community-driven RPG, so I know it's definitely possible to do this. They need to keep it open-sourced as they do and only manage merges and such with servers, etc. I think they should definitely keep the money separate from Space Engineers and such. Keep a report out for everyone in the community to see how they spent their money, and only use medieval engineers' money for just improving that project and that's it.
ME: Peak Player Count - 3,926 with an active player count over the last 24 hours of 87 people. 87. SE: Peak Player Count - 23,867 with an active player count over the last 24 hours of 8,361 players. SE has LITERALLY 100x the player count. ME was never, ever, successful. It was a giant drain on KSH's resources from word go and a commercial failure.
never a monetary success, but yet it remains. its a nod to the playerbase, all of us still here (and those now coming back to the game or getting it for the first time and seeing its potential) are truely passionate about it. no other game has such limitless possibilities.
They already did way more then most. Modders are always volunteers and the company do not force them to make mods. Its up to the comunity to reward these moders. And belive me. You want it to stay this way. If modders ever start being controlled and payed by companies, there will be a very major shift in how moding works, and probably, not for the consumer benefit.
I don't know what you mean by "But fans are ANGRY"... I'm happy about this. Modders always hard carry games while developers profit. Take Minecraft for example. It would not have been such a success without the modding community, yet the modders still didn't get paid. Volunteering work is optional, the modders are not forced.
This was a repeated request from community members. Repeated. The odds of Medieval Engineers new sales creating some sort of major windfall for Keen is really, really low. Considering that the new code will come from a community of people and not just one or two, there probably isn't a way to magnanimously divide the profits. The worst case scenario is that Keen subtracts its hard costs from the gross revenue and then donates the profits to charities.
We as players very often get the oportunity to be able to built the game we want, keeping a Game aint cheap i rather let the comunity finish building this great game and let keen pay for more server power. This is a teamwork game i belive
I love how no matter what keen does they get hate for it -new update for SE? Well i don't like the things they added -when water? the mods already put a blue sphere on the planets then why cant you do it? While at the same time people say they steal stuff from modders -drop ME? hate -release source code? people get angry about that Im not writing this to say all the criticism is invalid, and this comment probably has less to do with the topic of this video but just the general things said by the community. If I were a developing a game like this I would probably just crumble under all this pressure lol Also aren't modders by themselves volounteers? They add content to the game for nothing in exchange so its basicly the same thing
I saw that same pattern coming for some members of my community for so many years... Haters gonna hate, I guess I followed SE since the very beginig, and always saw KSH as a very dedicated developers, with a good resource management. They are a small developer company after all, but some people expects the imposible and never will be happy.
i see nothing wrong with, nobody is being forced to work on it and fans are getting a better game. sounds to me like they gave an inch and you're trying to take a mile even though that inch was probably the best solution for the majority
I get why Keen decided to drop ME. Instead of giving 2 projects only 50% they had to choose one game to fully focus limited resources to. And since then, we see large update coming into SE. I am glad however that the community with support from keen can pick it up. And the money/volenteer thing, is kinda understandable. They drop it as they don't have the recourse's to develop it. Modders who would do it for free anyways then said, let us develop it. So it would be kinda weird if keen then said "oh suddenly we have money and recourses to develop this." And the game was still being sold so Keen would get the money anyways. Keen just gave opened the source code so the modders can develop it easier and more in depth. and as an extra they give access to the recourse's the company has normally, something modders won;t have for a normal modding community. It's not as if Keen is forcing the modders/community to do this, it's the community who asked to do this. and instead of what most companies would have done and send a cease and desist letter, keen decided to support this initiative anyway they can. They also said that if this becomes really popular again they might reconsider taking it back in full production and more (financial) support from keen.
I could not disagree with this video and portrayal of the community demeanor more. The community is absolutely thrilled about this. No one is being exploited or taken advantage of. Everyone will and has already profited from this decision. I haven't seen or heard one person raise a reasonable complaint about any of it. This is wonderful, the community thinks it is, the development team obviously concerned about this community. Otherwise why would they do this? They could have just shut the doors on it. But they didn't.
You don't have the complete picture here, mate. Keen started with Minewars. Abandoned it. Started SE, kept it in EA for abt 9 !!!!! yrs. Started ME. Abandoned it. And got a lot and I do mean a lot of backlash on it. SE was full of bugs on release, ME was abandoned. Then instead of correcting SE they brought in.... DLC !!! Now, both games are the cashgrab, because Keen isn't interested in gaming but wants to sell it's Good AI idiocracy. Look at the games powered by Good AI and you fall of your chair laughing. It didn't do well, so now they are developing a Roman Engineers, the new cashgrab, but the gaming community is angry. Their rep is on the rocks. So, how to repair it. Lead Dev gone, development team scattered, main modders gone. They release the code. No they didn't They let two modders access it. One famous for adding a train, the other never heard of him. And mr. Rosa, the scumbag, is still trying to hark in money. So is his rep saved? Not at all. Not one bit. Average players 45. Everyone who made this game are gone. Everyone who ever played this game, is gone. The servers are gone. Only Rosa is still there. He can go to hell. I have played SE and ME both for over 3000 hrs but both games are deleted from my pc and will never, ever, be reinstalled again. And Rosa will never see a cent of me again. So he can shove his Roman engineers up his arse. Because the stupidity of those games is also. They suck at the engineering part. F.. Rosa, F.. Keen.
@@WiseOwl_1408 Giving facts is not crying like a baby, kid. Grow up and come back when you're an adult and may have some knowledge of what you are talking about. For now, go cry to your mummy.
Wow, I'm surprised you haven't made a video like this for Mount & Blade, SW: Empire at War, Skyrim, Garry's Mod, Paradox Grand Strategy games, Cities Skylines, etc. My point being, volunteers working on additional content for a game is literally the point of modding. I don't think you have a good argument here. Additionally, as others have said, this is way better than Keen not releasing the source code.
I would disagree since this is very different from modding. The community edition is sort of being built by a 3rd party developer in this case the volunteers. The source code has not been released though, its only given to a set of individuals stated to be worthy of it. I would agree with you if the source code was given to the public and people can do whatever they want with it but this is very different from that. Modding is about choice, I'm not really seeing choice in this arrangement.
SE would be so much cooler if wall building system was made like in ME. Keep the block system but suplement it with wall system would be match made in heaven.
If I was in charge, I'd put a development funds which would be shared with the volunteers. Let's say 50-80% of the revenues generated by the sales are put into that funds and once a month, that money is split up amongst the volunteers. Ofc, it can't be 100% simply due to legal and tax reasons.
And this is why you will never be in charge of a successful company :D You cant just give people money without paperwork and the person they would have to pay for the paperwork would cost more than any profit the game makes. And if you pay a volunteer, they are not a volunteer anymore. This would be an employee that just gets paid in commission, which would again mean more work, as all of them would have to get hired, and this would involve even more costs. So, assuming you mean nothing of what you said, good idea!
I don't see a problem open source code is a moders wet dream. its unfair to say "just release the source code if you are abandoning development!" *they release it. "pay us to develop it!" thats just the same as continuing to develop the game at that point. I remember when the halo community remade halo for the pc and had a thriving moding community. then Microsoft started threatening to sue everyone because they planned to release a game in a few years for the pc. they did but my point is fans will willfully make a huge contribution for free if they are allowed. then when they get board they will move on and new fans will take the mantle. at that point it will be an open source game basically. that you can and should play the OG devs for starting.
Garbage. KSH made it. KSH did exactly what the community asked as released the source. KSH is going above and beyond providing servers and more. This is their property that they have, and continue to, pay for. VOLUNTEERS have no right to expect or demand anything, because they are owed nothing, aside from our respect and appreciation
Yeah exactly it really is not different to any other game with mods. At the end of the day the devs could of left it alone and not done anything. This video makes a pretty piss poor argument.
it used to be 20$, it was made 10 when the final Keen update launched. for what you get in this game and its infinite possibilites, 10$ is well worth it. even if it doesnt go back into the game, the support of players actively playing is what the game will continue to need now.
Honestly, I think Keen should make ME free... They aren't working on it themselves, so they should not profit imo. Or at least give the volunteers a part of the profits. Take 20% or something and split the rest on the volunteers, or something like this.
keen has made profit for nothing before already, in Space Engineers when various mods were "borrowed" from and added to vanilla.... pretty sure they won't mind making a few bucks off of Medieval Engineers if the volunteers find and fix various issues or even improve the game by adding something the players want....
4:40 They are not hiring anyone though You just said they are volunteers and the ip owners did not pick anyone to do a job "They should be developing" Okay so the community begged for the ability to make a really big mod and now since the devs allowed it they should just give up the ip too? That is a begger trying to choose what they get for they the people who own medieval engineers did not have to give anything for it is their stuff. 5:20 "Their work" what work. . . the devs dropped it. You know stopped working on it. You try to paint a picture that the ip owners had a plan or some type of direct control over the community volunteer work yet have not given proof for that statement. At the end of the day it boils down to this Should someone get paid for something the payer did not ask for? Should a person be coerced into paying a person for a service the payer did not request? and one more question Should you volunteer your work do make a commodity better or attempt to get hired to make the commodity better?
I have no problem with this. The people undertaking the ongoing development will have accepted that they are not being paid to do so. If they were not okay with that, they would not be doing it. The thing is that they can use this as an item on their resume. It's a way to get their foot in the door of the industry. Really, this is no different from being a part of the modding community. Moddfers take a base game and turn it into something far beyond what it is at the core. They do not get paid. The only difference here is that this core group of modders are getting to be show-runners in terms of features. They have access to what they need to integrate things at the core level rather than just add-ons. So they are just modders with far more resources to work with. Really, we shouldn't worry about what Keed intends to do with any money they may make off the sales. We should ask the folks who are volunteering their time and effort if they are fine with the arrangement. If they are, then who are we to say what should or should not be done. If at any time any of them decide they want to make money, they can leave the team and get a paid gig. I doubt Keen is forcing them to stay. In a way, this sort of keeps the team fresh, as some may move on to other things, others may move into those roles. Who knows? Some of them may already have paid work and this is what they choose to do on their own time. I doubt they are punching a clock and have quotas to make.
How cool would it be to combine both of them, having to work your way up from medieval to space exploration... Mmmmmmm :) Imagine having built your kingdom, then a Borg cube shows up, you throw all you have at it but sadly all your attempts bounce off like little pebbles... Uh that would be amazing!
If they made it open source then they can’t profit directly from the game. They would have to iterate or add value directly. The only way Keen could profit would be to charge for using their servers or infrastructure. Look at Linux for examples.
all you need to see to know the truth about community edition is to actually look at the parts of the community that had survived to see CE release. we're overjoyed by it, those that are still mad just are holding a grudge. because of CE the community is only going to grow again from here.
for me the Word volonteer is key, if you are a volonteer you know that you don't gonna get paid, Word volonteer means Man WHO works but doesnt get money, becose he isn't employee
One thing that's not mentioned will all you said is that you still have to buy the game so not only they gonna make that profit that the community works on but they still going to get paid for the game and still that extra i don't see where its going to help look i can also help and do it for free but I'm not going to pay for open source code of the game just to better it for keen to make money as well.
You cant pay for the source code, You have to prove yourself a good modder for the game, and then keen MIGHT offer you the ability to access the source code.
Other developers can not even support a game or release the source code or even let new keys be sold because the owners of the Code want a lot of money for the source code. Medieval engineers development most certainly stopped because the cost exceeded the income with a clearly dropping player base. medieval engineers is only of interest to a limited number of players, as much as i would like it, it just does not have much to gain a player base. Even space engineers, while having a lot of players, is missing in interesting things to do and see.
personally i would expect that they are doing a profit split of like 60/40 in keens favour since they own the game and are offering what i would expect the more investment heavy side of things
the CE devs are all volunteers, unpaid. its purely out of passion for the game that this exists, is possible, and will continue to recieve development. keen doesnt care if they profit at this point, they wanted to support both SE and ME while they focused on SE.
@@stuchris also, one of the volunteers gave a good explanation for why there is no profit split: the 2 volunteers work day-jobs, were it is illegal for them to recieve payments from a third party (Keen in this case). So even if Keen wanted to pay them, they couldn't without getting them into legal trouble.
imo opininion the only mistake I can see here is that extra help from devs and making it sound official. It does sound nice that they are willing to help comunity, but whole thing makes people feel like they force modders to make game for em. Any game that goes open source should be celebrated.
The thing is devs that work for big companies are told one thing! To make profit period! They don’t care about players they care about money… the devs care but if they want a job they’ll do what they are told… y’all attack devs when it should be company heads who are attacked as they have the final say and the only real say… as a ex dev I quit because I was sick of getting attacked by the player base for doing my job.. I wanted the game to be better but if I did something that wasn’t told to me I’d be fired…. Just think people need to take a step back and think
I applaud the fact that tallented developers, although unpaid volunteers, are able to access the sourcecode, tools and a low level of support from Keen. But this does not change the fact that Keen have failed to release 4 out of their 5 games as properly completed. Marek Rosa is a liar. He promises much, but give little. Stating that ME was 'complete' on release from Early Access was a joke at best. I will never trust him again.
Keen does not force anyone to do content for theirs game. Everyone that does knows the state the game's in. They never mentioned they would pay anyone so why are people crying about it?
if you think this is bad, go look into rimworld a game which can drive you mad without certain qol mods and a dev who both doesnt seem to give a damn about his modding community and is completely willing to profit off them with very little in the way of content updates or optimization to the single threaded, highly unoptimized game that can get very slow very quickly. keen however, are (according to them) putting people and servers towards this, they also seem to be willing to help the community instead of harming it. it might not cost them as much as it would hiring their own devs and keeping everything internal only, they could also have just kept ignoring it. i dont see this is them hiring volunteers as such, but instead helping the modding community thrive and do what they want with the game keen doesnt want to, or cant continue to commit their own developers on. i do agree with the grey area regarding the money made from sales however, i do not know how to fix that. but i feel that this is a better alternative for the players, over the game continuing to be abandoned with no hope of bug fixes or content updates. sorry about the long comment, if i had more time i would have shortened it
I love that review saying not to buy based off of a dev making money off community work........you mean like every game with mods.....you mean like Skyrim which is modded to hell and back with many of those mods specifically just being patches fixing the shit dev work. And Skyrim has sold how many copies and how many version that stupid dumb asses keep buying. Hell overhaul mods sell games better than the games themselves a sometimes. Look at the original DayZ mod for Arma2, do you realize how many copies of Arma2 were sold because of Dayz mod alone? Or the Star Wars mod for Sins of a Solar Empire. Keen or any other dev studio is never gonna make a game as good as millions of people around the world can. Dev's are limited buy the money they have and the limited brain power. But add millions of free brains in and now a lot of ideas and fixes come to the front. Keen was smart in working with the modders and even asking for their help on many things from just adding a mod into the base game starting with the fighter cockpit to working on the net code and multiplayer. Sometimes they got some money sometimes they didn't. Some modders flat out got hired. Devs of games like this work as a general guide to the game so keeps some general direction and shape. They are taking in massive amounts of feed back and watching what mods or mod frameworks are becoming insanely popular (weaponcore for Space Engineers) and working it into the game in a way they think is more balanced for the base game.
i dont see the problem. if cdpr would release the witcher 3 source ppl would create amazing things, its about maki g the game great you enjoy and not money
Keen stops development. Players demand release of the source code. Keen not only releases source code, but devotes resources to those wanting to continue development on thier own. Players get mad because they won't get paid. LOLOL GO DEVELOP YOUR OWN GAME THEN.
so long as the community is still here in some form (which it was and had to be for this to happen at all) then its never too late. it will only grow again from here, and certainly has
Its marek, so of course the second there is any profit he will do everything to hype it up and make sure no one makes a cent off it but him, greedy chezch will be greedy
tbf, this could still turn out somewhat OK. they just fully acknowledge that they don't want to continue working on the game, but basically want to go open source and let the community build it up further. no issues there. the issue that pops up here, is that going this far and literally dumping ALL development on the modding community. feel nasty if they both make it open source AND keep selling it at standard retail price. it should be one or the other. otherwise they'd be straight up abusing their community devs' time. I'd say that as long as they actively provide and support the framework for the project to work and get released etc. it might still be fair if they'd lower the price to a few euros/dollars/seashells/whatevs your country pays in. but full retail price isn't really OK for a project that will mostly be built and maintained by volunteers.
When you buy a game for a retail price it is to buy the work of the game. . . . a third-party mod/volunteer should not affect a retail price. A price I will once again state is paying for what the original game is. "will mostly be built and maintained by volunteers" Built yes but not maintained "any additional revenue generated by ME be used as a 'budget' for things that they [modder/volunteers] might not have easy access to in the community edition development (assets, keen developer time, etc)."
How many people bought Arma 3 just to play DayZ? I know at least 4 of my friends did. They did eventually play a little of the vanilla game but they wouldn't have bought it if not for the DayZ mod
I bet this isn't the full source code. I bet it's just the C# part that interfaces with their vrage engine, and it's typical keen, make and abandon a game. My prediction is they wait for this to be developed then reuse it to make roman engineers or whatever else they've hinted at. It's really just a shitty version of valheim at this point.
I don’t see the problem. Keen doesn’t have enough resources to work on the game. If people are working for free on it and keen starts to make money on the game again they will be able to hire people aka resources to work in the game again. Very possible those who are already working on it for free. And even if not, that’s ok to. It was keen who had the idea for the game and made the engine. So even if it’s fully open source it’s still their property. There are also other games who live from the community and make money from people who are modding it for free. Just look at Skyrim for example. It’s over 10 years old and they still make money of it just because of the community. So yes let’s go and make the game great for free. And if keen starts to make money from it, it will be in our favor. They still are a company and for companies it’s always just about the money. So as a community it’s our task to manipulate this company in a way that they are interested in supporting the product again. And free work and new profit is a good way to manipulate a company. So let’s not make this community about money. Let’s sacrifice our time for a good game. I’m a dev and I will have a look at it for free.
This video is such a 0 IQ take. You are saying that its good that the game is getting worked on, but the people that volunteer their time to work on it should get paid. You are basically saying that a company should not only give up the source code to help people better the game, they should give up and profit they can make from it. If they want to profit from a game, either apply for a job for the company, and specifically state that you will only work on that project. Or make your own game from the ground up. Expecting a small company to just give away their work is crazy. And just to add, ME will never be popular, the 10 or so extra sales they got from it, and 200-300 people that reinstalled the game to try it have already uninstalled the game. But its AMAZING that they allow this, so the 100 or so total people playing the game can get updates.
Of course the people who created the IP would continue to get paid... What world do you guys live in? The modders got the source for a full fledged title that they were interested in, what greater gift is there? They could literally use things they learn from this to create their own games, the experience is invaluable, you guys should probably settle down because what has happened here is rare and pretty cool, I don't believe the modders are entitled to anything.
So Keen gets the modder to make the entire game but they get to keep all the money from sales of the game? Sounds like a Keen thing to do, afterall, their DLC is basically 99% stuff they pinched from the Workshop.
volunteer /ˌvɒlənˈtɪə/ 1. a person who freely offers to take part in an enterprise or undertake a task. "a call for volunteers to act as foster-parents" 2. a person who works for an organization without being paid. "the railway is operated solely by volunteers" So any talk about volunteers being paid is ridiculous.
Aren’t all moders volunteers and the developers profit of the game? Take bannerlord. You get 500 games and 499 of them are made by modders
You have a point there. Some games would simply get boring after a while if not for the mods. Take Rimworld or Skyrim for example. Their great modability is what keeps the playerbase going, as with each new mod a player can experience an entirely new journey.
If it turns out well, keen will most likely offer these modders jobs.
@@MrPablosek it‘s not even the boring part. They can do stuff which developers can‘t. They create content which with stuff from Star Wars, GOT etc. the games would cost thousands of bucks if they would get all the licenses.
Most modders get paid by their communities on patreon.
Modders are volunteers yes, but this is going a step further because in this case they aren't just adding stuff into a finished game because they want to, they're volunteering to finish and improve an incomplete game that the development team dropped and is now wanting to revive. There's a fine line, but it's not quite the same thing as modders for Skyrim or RimWorld or even Bannerlord because that still is being worked on by Taleworlds.
I'm surprised this wasn't mentioned in the video or comments, but one of the contributors to the community edition (Gwindalmir) already gave a good explanation for why things are they way they are with all this right now.
To summarize: Both contributors work day-jobs where it would be considered illegal to accept payment from a foreign entity (which to them, Keen would be). So instead, they made an arrangement with Keen to have any additional revenue generated by ME be used as a 'budget' for things that they might not have easy access to in the community edition development (assets, keen developer time, etc).
Gwin goes into much better detail on this. You can find his full post on the comments section of the Steam Post that originally announced the Community Edition. I strongly recommend reading it if you haven't already.
Thank you for giving a fuller picture and not trying to . . . . what that comment say . . . . . turn this into a "Pearl grab". Keen really did do something that was really cool and are for now handling the aftereffects quite swell.
Your mods are awesome Lucas.
Thanks for the clarification, took me a minute to figure out what that meant, but that clears things up.
No matter what gets explained, Keen still bailed after lying to the community.
hmm,.. where is illegal to have two jobs? tell me qucik pls
It's in the word Volunteer for this one, Keen isnt making anyone work for their game they allowed people to improve on it if it's their passion to do so. This would be like needing to pay mod makers because they improve on the game out of passion. Sales increase or not the people are volunteering to do this without money as an incentive. This is a good call on Keen to allow people to work on the game they like when their resources are pooled into their other projects. This whole ordeal is pearl clutching to the extreme.
Sounds like Skyrim 😂
It's in the principle, though.
Modders in games often enhance already good (or at least properly finished) games, meanwhile this is more akin to relying on free labor to finish up their unfinished, abandoned project.
Modding for a game and picking up the slack for a company that doesn't care about their game as much as you do are two different things.
They love the game and so they volunteer to develope it because the actual developers that are getting paid for it won't.
@@blame7121 Well, it's either that or the game falls to the wayside and NOTHING happens with it. No mods, no development, etc. At least this way it can continue on and may become something much better.
@@blame7121 Or they have dayjobs with contracts binding them, and they still try to appease the community. Read top post.
people need to worry less about a double-niche game making money. ME is not gona make them rich, heck the few extra sales that come from this move might not even cover the servercosts for the next few years.
just be happy they gave the community the sourcecode to work with.
Duality of men. GİVE SOURCE CODE! ok... YOU GAVE SOURCE CODE BECAZ MONEY! but.. But you asked?
I do not see a problem here. The devs are doing more than most. How many devs just abandon titles altogether. They are allowing this game to continue to grow and are even offering resources to do so. I wish all games were developed this way. The community will always put in more vision and effort than the game developer who is chasing profit.
Mods are basically the same thing in my eyes. You may not get much more downloads from mods alone but they do extend the time spend on the game by many players.
The problem is that they're going to put time and effort into it...and get nothing.
Would you go scrub toilets for hours on end, days at a time, for free?
@@DoremiFasolatido1979 As I understand it no one is forcing them to do this work. I would not scrub toilets because I do not have a passion for it. Modders do what they do because they are passionate about it. They get joy out of breathing new life into a game. Many modders end up getting offers to work for some of these companies. If you do something and enjoy it then you are getting something and maybe thats enough for them.
The people mad about it clearly aren't the people that wanted ME to have its source code released by Keen for years. KSH has done basic exactly what we asked for
@@DoremiFasolatido1979 Thats why they're volunteers. They literally asked to work on the game for free.
Sounds like the devs were put in a lose/lose situation when you look at it like this. They don't release the source code, people get pissed. They do release the source code and people get pissed. I think this is fine, if no one WANTS to work on this, then don't. If you do, now you have the opportunity. I wish people would focus more on the positives these days.
Either way, always appreciate your takes on these situations and you make great videos that are relaxing and easy to watch. Cheers.
I think the people who are pissed were thinking "release the source code" meant Kean washes their hands of the game and makes it open source. Them releasing the source code but still making money from the game is a third possibility I didn't realize was option. Though so long as Keen really is providing useful resources like server time to the modders and helping the game improve faster than it could on its own as a freeware project I suppose they earned making a bit of money.
well tbh if they didn't want to make the game for "free", well they don't have too. That's the point of being a volunteer, you don't need to do anything. Though I do think that if the game really kicks off, they should thank them. Maybe by hiring or giving them a % of income.
Either way, these volunteer's are just Modder's really. Modders don't really get anything aside from donations.
Honestly I'm just glad the game isn't going to waste.
A bit of behind the baseball, Equinox is a friend of mine, he said that there is a deal in place for the potential of community edition getting profitable
all keen is doing is just giving the community the tools to improve and make a better game they couldn’t care less if the game makes them money and frankly they have made a very good descision that in this day and age you never seen
People should absolutely chill about this. The volunteers are not kids, they know what they are doing.
I'd absolutely love to get the source-code for a lot of games that have been abandoned by their developers even if that means them making a profit out of it.
I think spending your personal time to work on a passion project is awesome; even if it doesn't have the goal of making money.
I like what the developers did because gamers will benefit and if the developers help in any way financially by providing servers, tech support etc, It would increase the chance of success. Good for gamers; and possibly a good financial end for the company if the collaboration works well.
isn't similar like making "free"mods for MW , it kept the warband playable for a decade?!
The question is, does it stay open-sourced? A great example of a game exploding in content and creativity is Veloren. Veloren is an open-sourced, and community-driven RPG, so I know it's definitely possible to do this. They need to keep it open-sourced as they do and only manage merges and such with servers, etc. I think they should definitely keep the money separate from Space Engineers and such. Keep a report out for everyone in the community to see how they spent their money, and only use medieval engineers' money for just improving that project and that's it.
ME: Peak Player Count - 3,926 with an active player count over the last 24 hours of 87 people. 87.
SE: Peak Player Count - 23,867 with an active player count over the last 24 hours of 8,361 players.
SE has LITERALLY 100x the player count. ME was never, ever, successful. It was a giant drain on KSH's resources from word go and a commercial failure.
never a monetary success, but yet it remains. its a nod to the playerbase, all of us still here (and those now coming back to the game or getting it for the first time and seeing its potential) are truely passionate about it. no other game has such limitless possibilities.
medieval is back on the menu boys!!
They already did way more then most. Modders are always volunteers and the company do not force them to make mods. Its up to the comunity to reward these moders. And belive me. You want it to stay this way. If modders ever start being controlled and payed by companies, there will be a very major shift in how moding works, and probably, not for the consumer benefit.
I don't know what you mean by "But fans are ANGRY"... I'm happy about this. Modders always hard carry games while developers profit. Take Minecraft for example. It would not have been such a success without the modding community, yet the modders still didn't get paid. Volunteering work is optional, the modders are not forced.
As of now (4/18/23) the last update to community edition was 7/13/22
This was a repeated request from community members. Repeated. The odds of Medieval Engineers new sales creating some sort of major windfall for Keen is really, really low. Considering that the new code will come from a community of people and not just one or two, there probably isn't a way to magnanimously divide the profits. The worst case scenario is that Keen subtracts its hard costs from the gross revenue and then donates the profits to charities.
We as players very often get the oportunity to be able to built the game we want, keeping a Game aint cheap i rather let the comunity finish building this great game and let keen pay for more server power. This is a teamwork game i belive
I love how no matter what keen does they get hate for it
-new update for SE? Well i don't like the things they added
-when water? the mods already put a blue sphere on the planets then why cant you do it? While at the same time people say they steal stuff from modders
-drop ME? hate
-release source code? people get angry about that
Im not writing this to say all the criticism is invalid, and this comment probably has less to do with the topic of this video
but just the general things said by the community.
If I were a developing a game like this I would probably just crumble under all this pressure lol
Also aren't modders by themselves volounteers? They add content to the game for nothing in exchange so its basicly the same thing
I saw that same pattern coming for some members of my community for so many years... Haters gonna hate, I guess
I followed SE since the very beginig, and always saw KSH as a very dedicated developers, with a good resource management. They are a small developer company after all, but some people expects the imposible and never will be happy.
i see nothing wrong with, nobody is being forced to work on it and fans are getting a better game. sounds to me like they gave an inch and you're trying to take a mile even though that inch was probably the best solution for the majority
I get why Keen decided to drop ME.
Instead of giving 2 projects only 50% they had to choose one game to fully focus limited resources to. And since then, we see large update coming into SE.
I am glad however that the community with support from keen can pick it up.
And the money/volenteer thing, is kinda understandable. They drop it as they don't have the recourse's to develop it. Modders who would do it for free anyways then said, let us develop it. So it would be kinda weird if keen then said "oh suddenly we have money and recourses to develop this."
And the game was still being sold so Keen would get the money anyways. Keen just gave opened the source code so the modders can develop it easier and more in depth. and as an extra they give access to the recourse's the company has normally, something modders won;t have for a normal modding community.
It's not as if Keen is forcing the modders/community to do this, it's the community who asked to do this. and instead of what most companies would have done and send a cease and desist letter, keen decided to support this initiative anyway they can.
They also said that if this becomes really popular again they might reconsider taking it back in full production and more (financial) support from keen.
I could not disagree with this video and portrayal of the community demeanor more. The community is absolutely thrilled about this. No one is being exploited or taken advantage of. Everyone will and has already profited from this decision. I haven't seen or heard one person raise a reasonable complaint about any of it. This is wonderful, the community thinks it is, the development team obviously concerned about this community. Otherwise why would they do this? They could have just shut the doors on it. But they didn't.
You don't have the complete picture here, mate.
Keen started with Minewars. Abandoned it.
Started SE, kept it in EA for abt 9 !!!!! yrs.
Started ME. Abandoned it.
And got a lot and I do mean a lot of backlash on it. SE was full of bugs on release, ME was abandoned. Then instead of correcting SE they brought in.... DLC !!!
Now, both games are the cashgrab, because Keen isn't interested in gaming but wants to sell it's Good AI idiocracy. Look at the games powered by Good AI and you fall of your chair laughing. It didn't do well, so now they are developing a Roman Engineers, the new cashgrab, but the gaming community is angry. Their rep is on the rocks. So, how to repair it. Lead Dev gone, development team scattered, main modders gone.
They release the code. No they didn't
They let two modders access it. One famous for adding a train, the other never heard of him. And mr. Rosa, the scumbag, is still trying to hark in money.
So is his rep saved? Not at all. Not one bit. Average players 45. Everyone who made this game are gone. Everyone who ever played this game, is gone. The servers are gone.
Only Rosa is still there. He can go to hell.
I have played SE and ME both for over 3000 hrs but both games are deleted from my pc and will never, ever, be reinstalled again. And Rosa will never see a cent of me again. So he can shove his Roman engineers up his arse.
Because the stupidity of those games is also. They suck at the engineering part. F.. Rosa, F.. Keen.
Crying like a baby.
@@WiseOwl_1408 Giving facts is not crying like a baby, kid. Grow up and come back when you're an adult and may have some knowledge of what you are talking about.
For now, go cry to your mummy.
Wow, I'm surprised you haven't made a video like this for Mount & Blade, SW: Empire at War, Skyrim, Garry's Mod, Paradox Grand Strategy games, Cities Skylines, etc.
My point being, volunteers working on additional content for a game is literally the point of modding. I don't think you have a good argument here. Additionally, as others have said, this is way better than Keen not releasing the source code.
I would disagree since this is very different from modding. The community edition is sort of being built by a 3rd party developer in this case the volunteers. The source code has not been released though, its only given to a set of individuals stated to be worthy of it. I would agree with you if the source code was given to the public and people can do whatever they want with it but this is very different from that. Modding is about choice, I'm not really seeing choice in this arrangement.
SE would be so much cooler if wall building system was made like in ME. Keep the block system but suplement it with wall system would be match made in heaven.
If I was in charge, I'd put a development funds which would be shared with the volunteers.
Let's say 50-80% of the revenues generated by the sales are put into that funds and once a month, that money is split up amongst the volunteers.
Ofc, it can't be 100% simply due to legal and tax reasons.
And this is why you will never be in charge of a successful company :D
You cant just give people money without paperwork and the person they would have to pay for the paperwork would cost more than any profit the game makes.
And if you pay a volunteer, they are not a volunteer anymore. This would be an employee that just gets paid in commission, which would again mean more work, as all of them would have to get hired, and this would involve even more costs.
So, assuming you mean nothing of what you said, good idea!
So basically they get unpaid labor
Thats what Volunteer mean... Like every modders since like 20 years who help to sell games
Which they chose to do.
I don't see a problem open source code is a moders wet dream. its unfair to say "just release the source code if you are abandoning development!" *they release it. "pay us to develop it!" thats just the same as continuing to develop the game at that point.
I remember when the halo community remade halo for the pc and had a thriving moding community. then Microsoft started threatening to sue everyone because they planned to release a game in a few years for the pc. they did but my point is fans will willfully make a huge contribution for free if they are allowed. then when they get board they will move on and new fans will take the mantle. at that point it will be an open source game basically. that you can and should play the OG devs for starting.
Garbage. KSH made it. KSH did exactly what the community asked as released the source. KSH is going above and beyond providing servers and more. This is their property that they have, and continue to, pay for. VOLUNTEERS have no right to expect or demand anything, because they are owed nothing, aside from our respect and appreciation
Yeah exactly it really is not different to any other game with mods. At the end of the day the devs could of left it alone and not done anything. This video makes a pretty piss poor argument.
@@hellbeck5947 Also as far as I know they can't pay volunteers because of legal reasons.
@@bandit7672 Yeah it would be a pretty legal nightmare paying them and not considering them employees of KSH.
They should start by making the game cheaper. 10$ is far too much for a game they totally abandoned. 5$ would be good.
it used to be 20$, it was made 10 when the final Keen update launched. for what you get in this game and its infinite possibilites, 10$ is well worth it. even if it doesnt go back into the game, the support of players actively playing is what the game will continue to need now.
Honestly, I think Keen should make ME free... They aren't working on it themselves, so they should not profit imo. Or at least give the volunteers a part of the profits. Take 20% or something and split the rest on the volunteers, or something like this.
keen has made profit for nothing before already, in Space Engineers when various mods were "borrowed" from and added to vanilla.... pretty sure they won't mind making a few bucks off of Medieval Engineers if the volunteers find and fix various issues or even improve the game by adding something the players want....
Well that's the point of volunteering...
4:40
They are not hiring anyone though
You just said they are volunteers and the ip owners did not pick anyone to do a job
"They should be developing"
Okay so the community begged for the ability to make a really big mod and now since the devs allowed it they should just give up the ip too?
That is a begger trying to choose what they get for they the people who own medieval engineers did not have to give anything for it is their stuff.
5:20
"Their work"
what work. . . the devs dropped it. You know stopped working on it.
You try to paint a picture that the ip owners had a plan or some type of direct control over the community volunteer work yet have not given proof for that statement.
At the end of the day it boils down to this
Should someone get paid for something the payer did not ask for?
Should a person be coerced into paying a person for a service the payer did not request?
and one more question
Should you volunteer your work do make a commodity better or attempt to get hired to make the commodity better?
I have no problem with this. The people undertaking the ongoing development will have accepted that they are not being paid to do so. If they were not okay with that, they would not be doing it. The thing is that they can use this as an item on their resume. It's a way to get their foot in the door of the industry.
Really, this is no different from being a part of the modding community. Moddfers take a base game and turn it into something far beyond what it is at the core. They do not get paid. The only difference here is that this core group of modders are getting to be show-runners in terms of features. They have access to what they need to integrate things at the core level rather than just add-ons. So they are just modders with far more resources to work with.
Really, we shouldn't worry about what Keed intends to do with any money they may make off the sales. We should ask the folks who are volunteering their time and effort if they are fine with the arrangement. If they are, then who are we to say what should or should not be done.
If at any time any of them decide they want to make money, they can leave the team and get a paid gig. I doubt Keen is forcing them to stay. In a way, this sort of keeps the team fresh, as some may move on to other things, others may move into those roles. Who knows? Some of them may already have paid work and this is what they choose to do on their own time. I doubt they are punching a clock and have quotas to make.
I have bought many games simply because of mods made by the community. I see little difference in this.
Keen is very respectful of its modding comunity, go look at the additions to space engineers from the workshop and how they handled it
How cool would it be to combine both of them, having to work your way up from medieval to space exploration... Mmmmmmm :)
Imagine having built your kingdom, then a Borg cube shows up, you throw all you have at it but sadly all your attempts bounce off like little pebbles... Uh that would be amazing!
Keens profits probably arent growing
Alot of money goes into their servers and keeping the games up at all
Medieval Engineers runs surprisingly well on my laptop.
No body is forcing them. If they don't want to work for free....then don't volunteer.
If they made it open source then they can’t profit directly from the game. They would have to iterate or add value directly. The only way Keen could profit would be to charge for using their servers or infrastructure. Look at Linux for examples.
all you need to see to know the truth about community edition is to actually look at the parts of the community that had survived to see CE release. we're overjoyed by it, those that are still mad just are holding a grudge. because of CE the community is only going to grow again from here.
for me the Word volonteer is key, if you are a volonteer you know that you don't gonna get paid, Word volonteer means Man WHO works but doesnt get money, becose he isn't employee
I think it’s unfair to assume any money made from this isn’t going back into the game
it probably isnt, we know that the CE devs are unpaid, its out of pure passion for the game and wanting it to continue growth that they are doing this
There was no single ME dev in that stream :)
If the community makes the game, the developer shouldn't get any more money. That sounds worse than Bethesda
One thing that's not mentioned will all you said is that you still have to buy the game so not only they gonna make that profit that the community works on but they still going to get paid for the game and still that extra i don't see where its going to help look i can also help and do it for free but I'm not going to pay for open source code of the game just to better it for keen to make money as well.
You cant pay for the source code, You have to prove yourself a good modder for the game, and then keen MIGHT offer you the ability to access the source code.
Other developers can not even support a game or release the source code or even let new keys be sold because the owners of the Code want a lot of money for the source code. Medieval engineers development most certainly stopped because the cost exceeded the income with a clearly dropping player base. medieval engineers is only of interest to a limited number of players, as much as i would like it, it just does not have much to gain a player base. Even space engineers, while having a lot of players, is missing in interesting things to do and see.
So mediaval engineers is just an test place for ai in space engineers
Medieval Engineers was basically started as a test bed for planets in Space Engineers, so it’s not unsurprising.
Volunteers means, well, they chose to do it for free.
personally i would expect that they are doing a profit split of like 60/40 in keens favour since they own the game and are offering what i would expect the more investment heavy side of things
the CE devs are all volunteers, unpaid. its purely out of passion for the game that this exists, is possible, and will continue to recieve development. keen doesnt care if they profit at this point, they wanted to support both SE and ME while they focused on SE.
@@stuchris also, one of the volunteers gave a good explanation for why there is no profit split: the 2 volunteers work day-jobs, were it is illegal for them to recieve payments from a third party (Keen in this case). So even if Keen wanted to pay them, they couldn't without getting them into legal trouble.
no one is surprised by the developers doing this. in Space Engineers several mods suddenly became vanilla
imo opininion the only mistake I can see here is that extra help from devs and making it sound official. It does sound nice that they are willing to help comunity, but whole thing makes people feel like they force modders to make game for em. Any game that goes open source should be celebrated.
The thing is devs that work for big companies are told one thing! To make profit period! They don’t care about players they care about money… the devs care but if they want a job they’ll do what they are told… y’all attack devs when it should be company heads who are attacked as they have the final say and the only real say… as a ex dev I quit because I was sick of getting attacked by the player base for doing my job.. I wanted the game to be better but if I did something that wasn’t told to me I’d be fired…. Just think people need to take a step back and think
I applaud the fact that tallented developers, although unpaid volunteers, are able to access the sourcecode, tools and a low level of support from Keen.
But this does not change the fact that Keen have failed to release 4 out of their 5 games as properly completed. Marek Rosa is a liar. He promises much, but give little. Stating that ME was 'complete' on release from Early Access was a joke at best. I will never trust him again.
Marek Rosa is just so megalomaniac and obnoxious. This guy's a pain. He will eventually cause SE to die and ruin himself.
just support ME in its current state as a community-run game. it will get its full status someday with said support.
Keen does not force anyone to do content for theirs game. Everyone that does knows the state the game's in. They never mentioned they would pay anyone so why are people crying about it?
It should be like STALKER Anomaly. A free version of the game with the code from the "paid" version.
if you think this is bad, go look into rimworld a game which can drive you mad without certain qol mods and a dev who both doesnt seem to give a damn about his modding community and is completely willing to profit off them with very little in the way of content updates or optimization to the single threaded, highly unoptimized game that can get very slow very quickly.
keen however, are (according to them) putting people and servers towards this, they also seem to be willing to help the community instead of harming it.
it might not cost them as much as it would hiring their own devs and keeping everything internal only, they could also have just kept ignoring it.
i dont see this is them hiring volunteers as such, but instead helping the modding community thrive and do what they want with the game keen doesnt want to, or cant continue to commit their own developers on.
i do agree with the grey area regarding the money made from sales however, i do not know how to fix that.
but i feel that this is a better alternative for the players, over the game continuing to be abandoned with no hope of bug fixes or content updates.
sorry about the long comment, if i had more time i would have shortened it
Space engineers is a better game, and this deserves more attention and work from the developers.
"Ars pro ars gratia." Sometimes, love of the game is enough....said no one in the NBA ever. If it gets big...money will change hands, believe that.
I love that review saying not to buy based off of a dev making money off community work........you mean like every game with mods.....you mean like Skyrim which is modded to hell and back with many of those mods specifically just being patches fixing the shit dev work. And Skyrim has sold how many copies and how many version that stupid dumb asses keep buying. Hell overhaul mods sell games better than the games themselves a sometimes. Look at the original DayZ mod for Arma2, do you realize how many copies of Arma2 were sold because of Dayz mod alone? Or the Star Wars mod for Sins of a Solar Empire. Keen or any other dev studio is never gonna make a game as good as millions of people around the world can. Dev's are limited buy the money they have and the limited brain power. But add millions of free brains in and now a lot of ideas and fixes come to the front. Keen was smart in working with the modders and even asking for their help on many things from just adding a mod into the base game starting with the fighter cockpit to working on the net code and multiplayer. Sometimes they got some money sometimes they didn't. Some modders flat out got hired. Devs of games like this work as a general guide to the game so keeps some general direction and shape. They are taking in massive amounts of feed back and watching what mods or mod frameworks are becoming insanely popular (weaponcore for Space Engineers) and working it into the game in a way they think is more balanced for the base game.
How do they fly in Medieval Engineers? Whitchcraft?
Creative mode. Don't be so gae
i dont see the problem. if cdpr would release the witcher 3 source ppl would create amazing things, its about maki g the game great you enjoy and not money
Keen stops development. Players demand release of the source code. Keen not only releases source code, but devotes resources to those wanting to continue development on thier own. Players get mad because they won't get paid. LOLOL GO DEVELOP YOUR OWN GAME THEN.
Hassent bethesda done this for years!
The problem ismost of the players have moved on now.....
I mean good to see that they are changing their abandonware... I mean its years late but good to hear!
so long as the community is still here in some form (which it was and had to be for this to happen at all) then its never too late. it will only grow again from here, and certainly has
Hey man just wondering what your thoughts were about Gates of hell ostfront
Stuff these devs. I hate how they have handled the console version of S E
That's cool though what they are doing with this game
Its marek, so of course the second there is any profit he will do everything to hype it up and make sure no one makes a cent off it but him, greedy chezch will be greedy
If they released the source code does that not mean that anyone can just get the game free?
tbf, this could still turn out somewhat OK. they just fully acknowledge that they don't want to continue working on the game, but basically want to go open source and let the community build it up further. no issues there.
the issue that pops up here, is that going this far and literally dumping ALL development on the modding community. feel nasty if they both make it open source AND keep selling it at standard retail price. it should be one or the other. otherwise they'd be straight up abusing their community devs' time.
I'd say that as long as they actively provide and support the framework for the project to work and get released etc. it might still be fair if they'd lower the price to a few euros/dollars/seashells/whatevs your country pays in.
but full retail price isn't really OK for a project that will mostly be built and maintained by volunteers.
When you buy a game for a retail price it is to buy the work of the game. . . .
a third-party mod/volunteer should not affect a retail price. A price I will once again state is paying for what the original game is.
"will mostly be built and maintained by volunteers"
Built yes but not maintained
"any additional revenue generated by ME be used as a 'budget' for things that they [modder/volunteers] might not have easy access to in the community edition development (assets, keen developer time, etc)."
I hope you mature enough to learn what double binds are and why this sort of manipulation is abusive.
good luck to the new devs :)
How many people bought Arma 3 just to play DayZ? I know at least 4 of my friends did. They did eventually play a little of the vanilla game but they wouldn't have bought it if not for the DayZ mod
Yeah...really only a symptom of the real problem...a problem that is far, far larger than KSH, or even game development as a whole.
I bet this isn't the full source code. I bet it's just the C# part that interfaces with their vrage engine, and it's typical keen, make and abandon a game. My prediction is they wait for this to be developed then reuse it to make roman engineers or whatever else they've hinted at. It's really just a shitty version of valheim at this point.
Started playing on left sock server anyone want to start playing together
What game engine does it use?
vrage i think
Angry fans comment here please. Lets see how many there are
Day 2, still no angry fans ranting about the game
I love this game.
AaahahhHhhhhGgggggGGGGGGAAAAAAHHHJHHGGGggghaaa
I don’t see the problem. Keen doesn’t have enough resources to work on the game. If people are working for free on it and keen starts to make money on the game again they will be able to hire people aka resources to work in the game again. Very possible those who are already working on it for free. And even if not, that’s ok to. It was keen who had the idea for the game and made the engine. So even if it’s fully open source it’s still their property. There are also other games who live from the community and make money from people who are modding it for free. Just look at Skyrim for example. It’s over 10 years old and they still make money of it just because of the community. So yes let’s go and make the game great for free. And if keen starts to make money from it, it will be in our favor. They still are a company and for companies it’s always just about the money. So as a community it’s our task to manipulate this company in a way that they are interested in supporting the product again. And free work and new profit is a good way to manipulate a company. So let’s not make this community about money. Let’s sacrifice our time for a good game. I’m a dev and I will have a look at it for free.
I honestly this is brilliant
This video is such a 0 IQ take. You are saying that its good that the game is getting worked on, but the people that volunteer their time to work on it should get paid.
You are basically saying that a company should not only give up the source code to help people better the game, they should give up and profit they can make from it.
If they want to profit from a game, either apply for a job for the company, and specifically state that you will only work on that project. Or make your own game from the ground up.
Expecting a small company to just give away their work is crazy.
And just to add, ME will never be popular, the 10 or so extra sales they got from it, and 200-300 people that reinstalled the game to try it have already uninstalled the game. But its AMAZING that they allow this, so the 100 or so total people playing the game can get updates.
you have a voice similar to andrew garfield's
So, unpaid work?
You got your timeline backwards. The Dev's abandoned the game Before the Players. Just look at the date on my Review of it.
So since it's open source it's free right?
good video
There is literally no problem here.
Of course the people who created the IP would continue to get paid... What world do you guys live in? The modders got the source for a full fledged title that they were interested in, what greater gift is there? They could literally use things they learn from this to create their own games, the experience is invaluable, you guys should probably settle down because what has happened here is rare and pretty cool, I don't believe the modders are entitled to anything.
Epic
So Keen gets the modder to make the entire game but they get to keep all the money from sales of the game?
Sounds like a Keen thing to do, afterall, their DLC is basically 99% stuff they pinched from the Workshop.
First ;')
volunteer
/ˌvɒlənˈtɪə/
1. a person who freely offers to take part in an enterprise or undertake a task.
"a call for volunteers to act as foster-parents"
2. a person who works for an organization without being paid.
"the railway is operated solely by volunteers"
So any talk about volunteers being paid is ridiculous.