You can check out Philip Mallis' tour of the X'trap 2.0 mockup here: ua-cam.com/video/m_bd0UyEaYQ/v-deo.htmlsi=vtIJzUEmCM0DFSoq Philip also made a video on the G class mock-up, (beating me to publishing by about 40 mins!) If you'd like another perspective on it: ua-cam.com/video/-KWZH1P_Is4/v-deo.htmlsi=gegUfpl81rZB2nbB My (very basic) look at the HCMT mockup from 2018: ua-cam.com/video/Lmhi2DjuBqY/v-deo.html Support the channel on Patreon: www.patreon.com/Taitset
The best part is these are going to routes 57, 59, 82. Routes Ive used and been around most my life which have always felt like they have the outdated trams compared some other lines
Tbh I like the Z classes more, their seats are much more comfortable, and the i love the open windows. However, the Z classes are aging and have a lower capacity than Z classes.
As someone who has routinely used the 59, it'll particularly benefit the many people of varying mobility capacity who visit the hospital precinct (Royal Melbourne, Peter Mac, and Royal Childrens) to access medical services. Albeit the upgrades in recent years to the 58 service and fleet have certainly helped on this front.
Good to see a tram that has been made for Melbourne. The swivel bogies are a must for our rough tracks, enough doors in the right places, good sight lines for drivers with a stubby upright nose which is perfect for areas with heavy vehicle traffic. Melbourne's old tram network has a very unique set of challenges to overcome and for the first time in a long time, it seems we will have a tram that fits our needs perfectly.
That is why Melbourne developed the 'Melbourne Tram Specification' that has being used for future tram designs that is compatible for the network, except during 'privatisation' period of the network when 'off the shelf' design's likes the C & D class trams where used and proved they weren't compatible to the network, hence being restricted to certain routes.
Alstom definitely took some lessons from the G:link Flexity units when it comes to interior layout, except for the fact that the Queensland contemporaries have space for two passengers per side even on the seats closer to the single-leaf doors. Thank you for the video, Martin!
Awesome! I'm going there tomorrow to check it out with my dad who also works at a disability agency. Being totally blind myself, I'm very impressed at how accessible these new trams are intended to be. It's also cool how they're based on the same ones that are on the Gold Coast, as my family and I rode them a couple of months ago or our holiday up there. Nice to see they're coming to Melbourne. On a side note, my dad and I were also hoping to go to the mock-up of the X'Trap 2.0 a few months ago, but I think it was when we were away or had something else on. Thanks for the great video.
I wish that we would learn here in NSW that just buying off the shelf models of rolling stock doesn't work! It's so good to see Melbourne ensuring that future rolling stock (trains and trams) is personalised to the city, and hopefully NSW will follow suit! All the recent stock purchased has been plauged with problems and has never had a community consultation model constructed (Looking at you NIF and new regional fleet).
NIF is actually a very custom design that WAS consulted on, especially with disability groups. They wanted a true off the shelf design from Alston or Stadler, but it wasn’t possible. So a modified Waratah/Oscar design was used and built upon. The new Regional Fleet though is a boondoggle, go sure!
Melbourne has developed the 'Melbourne Tram Specification' that is being used for future tram designs that is compatible for the network. Lessons have been learnt the 'off the shelf' design's likes the C & D class trams don't work
That applies to all 100% fixed bogie trams operating on any network with tight corner radii. Unless the system was designed with the selected vehicles limitations in mind, it’s not going to work long-term.
A majority of the worlds rolling-stock manufacturers have numerous "off-the-shelf" vehicle platforms that can be easily tailored to suit any particular system. All those models vary in capabilities thus their selection would depend on the chosen alignment they would operate on. Buy the right vehicles (even off-the-shelf ones) and you should have no long-term issues. Of-course, if you're resurrecting a legacy system curve for curve that far exceeds the design limitations of modern rolling-stock, finding something from an expansive catalogue to suit might be difficult if not impossible. Thats when agencies will go down the highly-modified or tailored path.
Very nice, and I like the extra doors. A big issue I have with the Canberra fleet (and I think this applies to NSW's CAF trams as well) is the poor allocation of doors, only 2 full and 2 half width for the 33 metre length, which slows down boarding and discourages more even dispersal through the passenger cabin. During peak, most people are crowded near the doors alongside all the bicycles, prams and wheelchairs. A couple extra doors like on the E and G class would help a bit I think. Also people here still haven't learned train platform etiquette.
Hopefully these trams accelerate smoothly. A lot of the modern trams are quite jerky when accelerating or braking. The old trams, with all their shortcomings, were at least unlikely to send you flying if you're not holding on firmly.
My first reaction was, "oh no another tram with doors directly opposite doors" This usually means that the disabled access and pushchair access is constrained as you have to immediately turn left or right. My beloved Den Haag Avenios have staggered doors so that entry for wheelchairs goes directly into the wheelchair space. However as you showed further details it is clear that these G class trams have a clear access to the reserved space. Well done. But the fold down seats will still mean that people sit there when they should not. G Class 8/10 well done.
Everyone is allowed to sit in the priority seats but it’s finable if they aren’t given up to someone who needs it. The foldable seats are there so people can sit there when there is no need for wheelchair space
@@shaunclarke94 Really? That seems illogical. For instance, as with many wheelchair users, I have difficulty breathing and therefore speaking. So could not shout from 3 places away in a busy noisy tram. So at the busy times I get stuck in the gangway between the 2 entrance doors. Slowing down entrance and exit for everyone.
Great video, thanks for sharing. I recall an E class mock up was displayed at the Melbourne Show in 2011. It was open to the public to inspect and provide feedback on.
i completely agree with this part at 4:55 one time i was at flinders street and i had to miss a stop because there was too much people and I couldnt get of the tram
I’ve came to believe the new Alstom Citadis in Sydney are elite in their design. Not sure if the newer models have the same swaying issue as Melbourne’s C-Class Citadis’ but the internal layout is perfection with lots of floor space giving it better standing capacity and a double door by the driver’s cab.
Thanks for the video. The second you mentioned the timber backs I immediately imagined them covered in graffiti. I suspect it would be more cost effective to immediately paint them in the factory before adding trim, as otherwise, when, not if, they get some graffiti, it would be expensive to cover up. They look good. The only thing I don’t like is the front. But I get why it needs to be that shape.
That is why Melbourne developed the 'Melbourne Tram Specification' that has being used for future tram designs that is compatible for the network, except during 'privatisation' period of the network when 'off the shelf' design's likes the C & D class trams where used and proved they weren't compatible to the network, hence being restricted to certain routes. The G1 trams are in essence the modern version of the B Class trams which have proven to be flexible across the network by moving a lot of people, hence the G1's are shorter than the E Class trams.
More correctly the (near) off-the-shelf designs (note our Citadis trams build for us have flat sides while nearly all others have curved sides) were shown not to be technically compliant with the entire network and this is sure to complicate driver training and it also disconnects our trams from the type of services they are providing, which, while not as flexible as buses, is still supposed to be more flexible than, say, our suburban rail could be. The cascading plan is an example of the flexibility we have from having some tram types technically compliant with the whole network. Another example of how flexible our trams are supposed to be is diversion of some of our routes during demonstrations in the city centre. We also ran two demonstration trams and at least one of them, then on loan from Porto, was even closer to off-the-shelf, judging from its severe curve limitations. The standard light rail minimum curve radius is 25 metres but that of the tightest curve on our network is about 15 metres. Even the E class is restricted to certain routes, due to length and power requirements, but it can certainly (being used on route 86) get around the tightest curve on the network. Over in Toronto, where the minimum curve radius is under 11 metres, the points are still single-bladed (ouch) and the track gauge unique, they have Flexity Outlooks. While these are customised for Toronto and technically compliant with their whole network (less extensive than ours), it seems that Toronto's order for them is still a sort-of-repeat of what we did when we ordered the Citadis and Combino.
4:45 thanks for the explanation. the new trams in parramatta have double doors at each end along with the existing alstom citadis x05 in sydney. so it is possible and by looking at your video it does look very cramped. hard for those like us who like to watch at either end :)
These have very similar, though overall better, interiors to the Flexity Freedoms used in a few places here in Canada, including the Edmonton Valley Line, which is now part of my daily commute. To be honest tho, despite being worse overall in my opinion, I still think the Freedom looks better on the outside, but that's mostly due to Melbourne's requirements for crash safety.
this new tram looks really good and can hold a good amount of passengers. i would like to see it on the route 86 tram as they still use the z class trams on it and during the rush hour they can get really pack. my favourite part of this tram is the wooden finish thank you for giving us this great news.
i quite like the timber finish but i suspect they wont stick with it due to the fear of vandalism. Oh well, still a good looking tram. I like the addition of the wish hanrail thingy bcs i find that sometimes when people crowd the big open areas of some tram, theres nothing really to hold onto if youre in the middle of it all.
Hoping they are starting to work on a solution to allow wheelchair access without a superstop/lrveltram stop as very few places have enough of those stops or enough room to build them. Ive wondered if they could do a mini lift like the accessible coach busses
Melbourne's getting new locally-built trams in two years from now. Like the E-class (the tram, not the car), the G-class will be fully accessible and swivelling bogies for sharp curves along Melbourne streets. Unlike the E-class, they're shorter and has passenger information displays for next stop announcements and real-time Melbourne PTV network alerts. I never thought that a 5-module G2-class tram is in the works but if it does get pressed into service, the routes I think it could operate is the 19 (displaces D2-class trams to the 6), 58 (alongside the E-class), 75 (introduces accessible tram services for the first time) and 109 (allows C-class trams to be displaced to the 12, 30, 48 and 78). They might also operate on 11 and 86 if PTV extends its tram network by building new tracks to underserved communities (Reservoir and South Morang, for example).
The G1 trams have inspired by the B Class trams which have proven to be flexible in moving a lot of people across the network. That is why the G1 trams are shorter the E (3 segment) trams.
By the way, will the G class be able to run in coupled pairs? The B class was intended to be able to run coupled and a coupled set of E class trams was tested in June 2014. This was filmed and is on the channel Schony 747 Trains Trams Planes.
@@Myrtone - The tram network is not currently suited for coupled E's. With any future expansion/s of the network will included coupled E's and possibly G's. Coupled 5 segment light rail vehicles need dedicated non graded rail corridors to be effected in good running times.
I dont understand why they don't make restaurant trams out of the A class old stock I mean most of the appeal is that its a moving restaurant not that its an old tram Even a bar tram would be great Melbourne would become world wide known for it I have worked on the restaurant trams and every single person on it enjoyed it Great vids When you nerd out (7000 a great touch etc) its really natural and passionate and great to watch Keep up the good work Loved ur vid on the runaway broadie train too Cheers
Let me tell you that a proper restaurant with a big enough kitchen would never fit onboard *any* of our trams, as per the common understanding in the good food business. You would never find our Restaurant tram in any good food guide.
I worked on the tram car restaurant and its all par cooked so they could do it with the other trams in the fleet - the food wasnt that bad and its more a case of eating whilst moving thats the appeal not the fine dining@@Myrtone
do you know what if there is a built in ramp to deploy for street level stops for wheelchairs? the earlier released planning doccuments seemed to imply that it would feature all the modern accessibility features available on the model and several overseas iterations feature it. would be quite disappointing if they chose not to include it, as less than 30% of stops are raised platforms so similar new low floor trams phasing out the A's and Z's don't help much for 73% of the current stops network
There is a ramp (it's in the grey vertical cabinet next to the articulation, visible straight ahead at 04:19 ) but I was told it will be for emergency evacuation only unfortunately.
@@Taitset damn that is a shame. other models of this tram have a ramp that slides out from inside the floor to meet the street level. it's a shame that we keep failing to meet accessibility commitments when wheelchair users like me are far more likely to need public transport due to the difficulties of transferring between a chair and a car seat while packing the chair into the car. we were supposed to have 100% tram stop accessibility compliance by last year, and 100% tram fleet accessibility by 2032 which is also unlikely to happen at this rate. feels like we are just being left by the wayside again with infrastructure even when tram ramps would help put a bandaid on the problem it still isn't done
@@marcelinenolan6284 "other models of this tram have a ramp that slides out from inside the floor to meet the street level. " I hate to tell you this but these ramps will not work at our safety zones. They also won't get wheelchairs over gutters. So in a lot of cases, platforms are the only solution.
I will really miss the Z class tram when it's replaced by the G class. The Z class trams are really interesting vehicles to ride on. But I do like the features on the new G class.
I realise I'm a little late to the party, but it's good to see these trams intended for use in Melbourne's north-west (routes 57, 82 etc). I'm not sure what the code names of the models currently used on these routes are, but they are generally old, dirty and unloved. It's high time the north-west had some new rolling stock. Great video, thanks.
Any updates on the G class trams? According to the Victorian Big Build site, Maidstone depot will not commence operations until 2026, as previously believed it will be completed sometime in 2025 considering the slow progress on the construction site. Will G class trams be rolled out at Essendon first sometime next year?
This tram looks really good, even if the square jaw on the front make it look like someone took the Panther G gun mantlet as inspiration for the look. Internally, it looks like it's practically ready for production.
I hope they don't rattle and make as much noise as some of the newer trams.Maybe it's just poor maintenance, but here on the the 96, I can hear them from blocks away at times
Do you know if this will ever be put on public display like the HCMT was a few years ago? Yes i agree, it is great that nowadays we do mock-ups of public transport before they are build so that people can voice their opinions on them and make sure they are fit for Melbourne (ahem, Siemens trains, C1 class, E class)
1:43 I'm going to miss the A class trams! After living in Melbourne for two years I finally spotted one that still had a comeng plate on the stairs, although it was upside down. I take it this photo is of one coming into stop just after Vic gardens?
This is unrelated to the actual video, but I was wondering if a Comeng train would have ever passed through the new Rosanna Station? I know that Comeng trains stopped regularly running on the Hurstbridge line around late 2017, and the new Rosanna Station opened not long after that, but I'm still unsure
I doubt the G1 trams will be coupled together. Their designs has been inspired by the B Class trams which have shown to be good people movers across the networks, hence the G1's being shorter than the E (3 segment) trams.
@@chrismckellar9350 The B class trams were originally intended to run in coupled pairs some of the time. In fact, a coupled set of three section G class trams seems preferable to the five section one I have seem illustrated.
@@Myrtone - B Class has shown their versatility to be used anywhere on the network. The G's are in essence the B's replacement as the G's will have the ability to be used anywhere on the network. Yes, I know the G's will also replace the Z3's and A's and possibly the C's. The proposed second batch of the G's which could be 4 or 5 segment sets will replace the D's as the C's & D's are not designed and built for the operating conditions of the network. The E's & G's are the new Melbourne Tram specification.
I like the more modern design that reflects the next generation of trams in Melbourne. I believe Yarra Trams should have 100 G Class trams like the first design shown. Then another order should be purchased with the longer sections known as the G2 class.
Seems like a very cool new tram but will miss the old look of the z’s and a’s when they get removed… maybe one day Melbourne could try making more rolling stock with the top sticking out like the z a or b?
If this has problems with the curves on the 82 (leeds into Hopkins etc) then i shall laugh (and i still want trams back on Spencer turning into flinders!)
What's the go with the blank white looking desto? Is that a viewing angle thing or just displaying white at times due to not being driven with the right content? As for the timber seats, I honestly thought it was just for quick fabrication for prototyping. Timber feels like a terrible choice for being vandal resistant.
@@СлаваССС-м4с I don't give a crap about your petty complaints. I'm talking about ascetics and the way the city feels. I'm talking about something transcendent. You can live in your bug man city with it's fast efficient trains that look like giant condoms. It will be even more deracinate than the city currently is and you may not know why you feel a sinking emptiness inside, but this will be one of the reasons.
As someone with mobility issues, I'm not a fan of the raised seats. I don't use a wheelchair but for elderly people and people like myself, id rather priority seats be flush with the floor
Looks good I guess. I still would love to see exterior design nods to the W class but with a modern twist. It also occurs to me that Melbourne really does have a lot of prior and present experience with EV construction and it’s a shame it’s not extended to the car market which if done right could make up for the huge loses from GMH, Ford and Toyota etc shutting down Aussie car manufacturing.
You missed why they would use 'G' if it was associated with a word. That word would be 'Green', as in Green energy. Signalling that it uses 40%+ less energy per passenger.
Gotta say, really not a fan of how little seating there is compared to the z class. For inner city routes it makes sense, people hopping on and off constantly, but the 82 needs seats, not standing room.
Looks fantastic! Can't wait till they get rid of those pieces of crap C and D class, (though I note you said they would replace Z and A class first, which is ok as I hate the A class too). I hate both of them, just awful trams. Except for the Bumblebees, they are a bit better
Really interesting and informative video, thanks Martin. As someone who moved away from Melbourne in the mid 90s, I’m still getting my head around just how far things have come, so this video really puts things into perspective. And of course, I’ll be bitterly disappointed if the car doesn’t make accordion noises as it goes around corners! Is your generation list as follows? 1st gen - cable trams. 2nd gen - pre-MMTB four-wheel and maximum traction trams. 3rd gen - W series trams. 4th gen - 1041 and the Z trams. 5th gen - A and B trams. 6th gen - C, D, and E trams. 7th gen - this new type.
I think their logic was: 1 - Horse/cable trams 2 - early electric 3 - W 4 - Z/A/B 5 - C/D 6 - E 7 - G Personally I think I'd split early electric into 4-wheel and bogie, and I kind of feel like the E and G should be combined despite the various advances on the G. Though that still gets to the same overall number!
You can check out Philip Mallis' tour of the X'trap 2.0 mockup here: ua-cam.com/video/m_bd0UyEaYQ/v-deo.htmlsi=vtIJzUEmCM0DFSoq
Philip also made a video on the G class mock-up, (beating me to publishing by about 40 mins!) If you'd like another perspective on it: ua-cam.com/video/-KWZH1P_Is4/v-deo.htmlsi=gegUfpl81rZB2nbB
My (very basic) look at the HCMT mockup from 2018: ua-cam.com/video/Lmhi2DjuBqY/v-deo.html
Support the channel on Patreon: www.patreon.com/Taitset
So cool that you were invited to see this! I was hoping Philip might have gotten a cameo in this video… Next time you will have to do a crossover!
@@closeben Yes we'll have to aim to be in the same group next time!
Straya Trains also has a good video: ua-cam.com/video/drtX9fh-gpc/v-deo.html&pp=ygUOeCd0cmFwb2xpcyAyLjA%3D
@@Taitsethi
The best part is these are going to routes 57, 59, 82. Routes Ive used and been around most my life which have always felt like they have the outdated trams compared some other lines
I feel you, I live with these routes and I’ve only seen z class trams near me. I’m gonna miss them for their comfy seats though 😢
Tbh I like the Z classes more, their seats are much more comfortable, and the i love the open windows. However, the Z classes are aging and have a lower capacity than Z classes.
Same here
Yeah the 82 is desperately in need of some new trams
As someone who has routinely used the 59, it'll particularly benefit the many people of varying mobility capacity who visit the hospital precinct (Royal Melbourne, Peter Mac, and Royal Childrens) to access medical services. Albeit the upgrades in recent years to the 58 service and fleet have certainly helped on this front.
Good to see a tram that has been made for Melbourne. The swivel bogies are a must for our rough tracks, enough doors in the right places, good sight lines for drivers with a stubby upright nose which is perfect for areas with heavy vehicle traffic. Melbourne's old tram network has a very unique set of challenges to overcome and for the first time in a long time, it seems we will have a tram that fits our needs perfectly.
That is why Melbourne developed the 'Melbourne Tram Specification' that has being used for future tram designs that is compatible for the network, except during 'privatisation' period of the network when 'off the shelf' design's likes the C & D class trams where used and proved they weren't compatible to the network, hence being restricted to certain routes.
The timber seat design and the interior info screens are perfect and amazing.
Was bound to happen eventually - absolute coincidence on the timing! Great video as usual
Haha yes, amazingly close! Thankyou. :)
I always get you two mixed up. When I see 'Taitset', I see your face.
Alstom definitely took some lessons from the G:link Flexity units when it comes to interior layout, except for the fact that the Queensland contemporaries have space for two passengers per side even on the seats closer to the single-leaf doors.
Thank you for the video, Martin!
Awesome! I'm going there tomorrow to check it out with my dad who also works at a disability agency. Being totally blind myself, I'm very impressed at how accessible these new trams are intended to be. It's also cool how they're based on the same ones that are on the Gold Coast, as my family and I rode them a couple of months ago or our holiday up there. Nice to see they're coming to Melbourne. On a side note, my dad and I were also hoping to go to the mock-up of the X'Trap 2.0 a few months ago, but I think it was when we were away or had something else on. Thanks for the great video.
I wish that we would learn here in NSW that just buying off the shelf models of rolling stock doesn't work! It's so good to see Melbourne ensuring that future rolling stock (trains and trams) is personalised to the city, and hopefully NSW will follow suit! All the recent stock purchased has been plauged with problems and has never had a community consultation model constructed (Looking at you NIF and new regional fleet).
NIF is actually a very custom design that WAS consulted on, especially with disability groups. They wanted a true off the shelf design from Alston or Stadler, but it wasn’t possible. So a modified Waratah/Oscar design was used and built upon.
The new Regional Fleet though is a boondoggle, go sure!
Melbourne has developed the 'Melbourne Tram Specification' that is being used for future tram designs that is compatible for the network. Lessons have been learnt the 'off the shelf' design's likes the C & D class trams don't work
That applies to all 100% fixed bogie trams operating on any network with tight corner radii. Unless the system was designed with the selected vehicles limitations in mind, it’s not going to work long-term.
I've got this dream for my hometown to have a revival of its tram network. It seems that off the shelf models might not be as feasible as I thought.
A majority of the worlds rolling-stock manufacturers have numerous "off-the-shelf" vehicle platforms that can be easily tailored to suit any particular system. All those models vary in capabilities thus their selection would depend on the chosen alignment they would operate on. Buy the right vehicles (even off-the-shelf ones) and you should have no long-term issues.
Of-course, if you're resurrecting a legacy system curve for curve that far exceeds the design limitations of modern rolling-stock, finding something from an expansive catalogue to suit might be difficult if not impossible. Thats when agencies will go down the highly-modified or tailored path.
I think the timber seat backs add personality to the new trams, and the spilt handrail seems very good.
At 7:27 you can see one of the new Conduent Myki validators behind the “prototype testing underway” sign
I was just about to comment that. A sign of what our readers in the future will look like, maybe?
@@mitchul looks like it!
Very nice, and I like the extra doors. A big issue I have with the Canberra fleet (and I think this applies to NSW's CAF trams as well) is the poor allocation of doors, only 2 full and 2 half width for the 33 metre length, which slows down boarding and discourages more even dispersal through the passenger cabin. During peak, most people are crowded near the doors alongside all the bicycles, prams and wheelchairs. A couple extra doors like on the E and G class would help a bit I think.
Also people here still haven't learned train platform etiquette.
To clarify: this is in reference to the 5-module proposal, in direct comparison to the 5-module CAF tram. I should have been clearer sorry
CAF fleet on Sydney’s L1 has this door arrangement and it really hampers peak hour performance. Huge dwells at busy stops.
Hopefully these trams accelerate smoothly. A lot of the modern trams are quite jerky when accelerating or braking. The old trams, with all their shortcomings, were at least unlikely to send you flying if you're not holding on firmly.
My first reaction was, "oh no another tram with doors directly opposite doors" This usually means that the disabled access and pushchair access is constrained as you have to immediately turn left or right.
My beloved Den Haag Avenios have staggered doors so that entry for wheelchairs goes directly into the wheelchair space. However as you showed further details it is clear that these G class trams have a clear access to the reserved space. Well done. But the fold down seats will still mean that people sit there when they should not.
G Class 8/10 well done.
There's no rule saying people shouldn't sit there. It's just a priority space.
@@shaunclarke94 But in a busy tram I have never found that the people sitting there give priority to me. Maybe Aussies are more polite?
Everyone is allowed to sit in the priority seats but it’s finable if they aren’t given up to someone who needs it. The foldable seats are there so people can sit there when there is no need for wheelchair space
@@Jules_Diplopia they are only required to give up the seat upon request. But if they can see someone that needs it, they should offer.
@@shaunclarke94 Really? That seems illogical. For instance, as with many wheelchair users, I have difficulty breathing and therefore speaking. So could not shout from 3 places away in a busy noisy tram.
So at the busy times I get stuck in the gangway between the 2 entrance doors. Slowing down entrance and exit for everyone.
Great insight, love the behind the scenes look!
Great video, thanks for sharing. I recall an E class mock up was displayed at the Melbourne Show in 2011. It was open to the public to inspect and provide feedback on.
7:34 "Mum can we go on a tram?"
"No, we have trams at home"
*Trams at home*
i completely agree with this part at 4:55 one time i was at flinders street and i had to miss a stop because there was too much people and I couldnt get of the tram
I’ve came to believe the new Alstom Citadis in Sydney are elite in their design. Not sure if the newer models have the same swaying issue as Melbourne’s C-Class Citadis’ but the internal layout is perfection with lots of floor space giving it better standing capacity and a double door by the driver’s cab.
Thanks for the video. The second you mentioned the timber backs I immediately imagined them covered in graffiti. I suspect it would be more cost effective to immediately paint them in the factory before adding trim, as otherwise, when, not if, they get some graffiti, it would be expensive to cover up.
They look good. The only thing I don’t like is the front. But I get why it needs to be that shape.
That is why Melbourne developed the 'Melbourne Tram Specification' that has being used for future tram designs that is compatible for the network, except during 'privatisation' period of the network when 'off the shelf' design's likes the C & D class trams where used and proved they weren't compatible to the network, hence being restricted to certain routes. The G1 trams are in essence the modern version of the B Class trams which have proven to be flexible across the network by moving a lot of people, hence the G1's are shorter than the E Class trams.
More correctly the (near) off-the-shelf designs (note our Citadis trams build for us have flat sides while nearly all others have curved sides) were shown not to be technically compliant with the entire network and this is sure to complicate driver training and it also disconnects our trams from the type of services they are providing, which, while not as flexible as buses, is still supposed to be more flexible than, say, our suburban rail could be.
The cascading plan is an example of the flexibility we have from having some tram types technically compliant with the whole network. Another example of how flexible our trams are supposed to be is diversion of some of our routes during demonstrations in the city centre.
We also ran two demonstration trams and at least one of them, then on loan from Porto, was even closer to off-the-shelf, judging from its severe curve limitations. The standard light rail minimum curve radius is 25 metres but that of the tightest curve on our network is about 15 metres.
Even the E class is restricted to certain routes, due to length and power requirements, but it can certainly (being used on route 86) get around the tightest curve on the network.
Over in Toronto, where the minimum curve radius is under 11 metres, the points are still single-bladed (ouch) and the track gauge unique, they have Flexity Outlooks. While these are customised for Toronto and technically compliant with their whole network (less extensive than ours), it seems that Toronto's order for them is still a sort-of-repeat of what we did when we ordered the Citadis and Combino.
Great review, thank you for the update!
It looks like a beluga whale, actually pretty cute
You are so right 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉😮
4:45 thanks for the explanation. the new trams in parramatta have double doors at each end along with the existing alstom citadis x05 in sydney. so it is possible and by looking at your video it does look very cramped. hard for those like us who like to watch at either end :)
I’m going to be honest, I thought the front looked really silly but considering the benefits…? Not bad!
These have very similar, though overall better, interiors to the Flexity Freedoms used in a few places here in Canada, including the Edmonton Valley Line, which is now part of my daily commute. To be honest tho, despite being worse overall in my opinion, I still think the Freedom looks better on the outside, but that's mostly due to Melbourne's requirements for crash safety.
this new tram looks really good and can hold a good amount of passengers. i would like to see it on the route 86 tram as they still use the z class trams on it and during the rush hour they can get really pack. my favourite part of this tram is the wooden finish thank you for giving us this great news.
i quite like the timber finish but i suspect they wont stick with it due to the fear of vandalism. Oh well, still a good looking tram. I like the addition of the wish hanrail thingy bcs i find that sometimes when people crowd the big open areas of some tram, theres nothing really to hold onto if youre in the middle of it all.
I just wish they had the straight glass for the destination board like the old trams so there are less intrusive reflections.
7:29, interesting to see the new look myki readers on the tram for when credit card use is rolled out!
Hoping they are starting to work on a solution to allow wheelchair access without a superstop/lrveltram stop as very few places have enough of those stops or enough room to build them. Ive wondered if they could do a mini lift like the accessible coach busses
Melbourne's getting new locally-built trams in two years from now. Like the E-class (the tram, not the car), the G-class will be fully accessible and swivelling bogies for sharp curves along Melbourne streets. Unlike the E-class, they're shorter and has passenger information displays for next stop announcements and real-time Melbourne PTV network alerts.
I never thought that a 5-module G2-class tram is in the works but if it does get pressed into service, the routes I think it could operate is the 19 (displaces D2-class trams to the 6), 58 (alongside the E-class), 75 (introduces accessible tram services for the first time) and 109 (allows C-class trams to be displaced to the 12, 30, 48 and 78). They might also operate on 11 and 86 if PTV extends its tram network by building new tracks to underserved communities (Reservoir and South Morang, for example).
The G1 trams have inspired by the B Class trams which have proven to be flexible in moving a lot of people across the network. That is why the G1 trams are shorter the E (3 segment) trams.
By the way, will the G class be able to run in coupled pairs? The B class was intended to be able to run coupled and a coupled set of E class trams was tested in June 2014. This was filmed and is on the channel Schony 747 Trains Trams Planes.
@@Myrtone - The tram network is not currently suited for coupled E's. With any future expansion/s of the network will included coupled E's and possibly G's.
Coupled 5 segment light rail vehicles need dedicated non graded rail corridors to be effected in good running times.
@@chrismckellar9350 The E class has three, not five sections, due to the technology underneath it. Is any of our network suited to coupled G's?
the layout of the seats looks similar to the light rail here in Sydney
I dont understand why they don't make restaurant trams out of the A class old stock I mean most of the appeal is that its a moving restaurant not that its an old tram Even a bar tram would be great Melbourne would become world wide known for it I have worked on the restaurant trams and every single person on it enjoyed it Great vids When you nerd out (7000 a great touch etc) its really natural and passionate and great to watch Keep up the good work Loved ur vid on the runaway broadie train too Cheers
Let me tell you that a proper restaurant with a big enough kitchen would never fit onboard *any* of our trams, as per the common understanding in the good food business. You would never find our Restaurant tram in any good food guide.
I worked on the tram car restaurant and its all par cooked so they could do it with the other trams in the fleet - the food wasnt that bad and its more a case of eating whilst moving thats the appeal not the fine dining@@Myrtone
i wished they would use more wood and warm white lighting it would give the trams a very homely and warm feeling
Very awesome video!👍☺️
do you know what if there is a built in ramp to deploy for street level stops for wheelchairs? the earlier released planning doccuments seemed to imply that it would feature all the modern accessibility features available on the model and several overseas iterations feature it.
would be quite disappointing if they chose not to include it, as less than 30% of stops are raised platforms so similar new low floor trams phasing out the A's and Z's don't help much for 73% of the current stops network
There is a ramp (it's in the grey vertical cabinet next to the articulation, visible straight ahead at 04:19 ) but I was told it will be for emergency evacuation only unfortunately.
@@Taitset damn that is a shame. other models of this tram have a ramp that slides out from inside the floor to meet the street level.
it's a shame that we keep failing to meet accessibility commitments when wheelchair users like me are far more likely to need public transport due to the difficulties of transferring between a chair and a car seat while packing the chair into the car.
we were supposed to have 100% tram stop accessibility compliance by last year, and 100% tram fleet accessibility by 2032 which is also unlikely to happen at this rate.
feels like we are just being left by the wayside again with infrastructure even when tram ramps would help put a bandaid on the problem it still isn't done
@@marcelinenolan6284 Yes it's really disappointing that this isn't being made more of a priority!
@@marcelinenolan6284 "other models of this tram have a ramp that slides out from inside the floor to meet the street level. " I hate to tell you this but these ramps will not work at our safety zones. They also won't get wheelchairs over gutters. So in a lot of cases, platforms are the only solution.
I will really miss the Z class tram when it's replaced by the G class. The Z class trams are really interesting vehicles to ride on. But I do like the features on the new G class.
The Zs should be kept for charters and tours. These applications do not require level boarding and high floor is better for them.
I love the tait thumbnail haha. Keep it up.
I was wondering when someone would notice 🙂
He's a reverse Thomas. It's a rare condition.
I realise I'm a little late to the party, but it's good to see these trams intended for use in Melbourne's north-west (routes 57, 82 etc). I'm not sure what the code names of the models currently used on these routes are, but they are generally old, dirty and unloved. It's high time the north-west had some new rolling stock. Great video, thanks.
Z class
i love the new trains and trams in melbourne!!! 😉
Any updates on the G class trams? According to the Victorian Big Build site, Maidstone depot will not commence operations until 2026, as previously believed it will be completed sometime in 2025 considering the slow progress on the construction site. Will G class trams be rolled out at Essendon first sometime next year?
This tram looks really good, even if the square jaw on the front make it look like someone took the Panther G gun mantlet as inspiration for the look. Internally, it looks like it's practically ready for production.
Thanks for the update and tour. Can the general public take a look at the new G class? If so where is the display? Cheers
No, it isn't open to the public unfortunately
2:11 So my favourite train (the VLocity) has comeng dna!
I hope they don't rattle and make as much noise as some of the newer trams.Maybe it's just poor maintenance, but here on the the 96, I can hear them from blocks away at times
Would you make a video on different vlines? I've been on plenty newer looking ones that have different seats
No F class?
Now I understand why we never got a Commodore VD..
You get your vd in a commodore
I hope we can get to see Melbourne's new G class tram by 2025
Do you know if this will ever be put on public display like the HCMT was a few years ago?
Yes i agree, it is great that nowadays we do mock-ups of public transport before they are build so that people can voice their opinions on them and make sure they are fit for Melbourne (ahem, Siemens trains, C1 class, E class)
1:43 I'm going to miss the A class trams! After living in Melbourne for two years I finally spotted one that still had a comeng plate on the stairs, although it was upside down. I take it this photo is of one coming into stop just after Vic gardens?
Yes I'm going to miss them to! Yep it's the stop beyond Vic Gardens.
Think there was also a E class mockup during the 2010 or 2011 Royal Melbourne Show
That was cool. It sounded a little familiar, but i think 'that other guy' did his one too 😉
Yes, we released videos on this on the same day. :)
How many seats will it have? So far the W class had more seats than most of the newer trams.
The machine that looks like a grey Myki reader with the "prototype" paper covering it, is that for the new contactless ticketing system?
how can be invited to the sort of train/tram/bus models before it become an actual thing like what they did with the X'trap 2.0 and HCMT?
Im not from melbourne, but these trams look good, when will they enter service?
This is unrelated to the actual video, but I was wondering if a Comeng train would have ever passed through the new Rosanna Station? I know that Comeng trains stopped regularly running on the Hurstbridge line around late 2017, and the new Rosanna Station opened not long after that, but I'm still unsure
Only once or twice! There was at least one occasion where a Comeng ran to Hurstbridge for testing in the middle of the night after 2018.
the location of the depot on route 82 is interesting as the Kennett government wanted to withdraw route 82. Not sure why it never happened.
Am I the only one who finds the front end of this tram absolutely hideous.
Looks aside great video mate.
I think the front of the design prioritised safety over form which I think is a good thing since most trams are street running with mixed traffic.
Will these cars be able to coupled to form sets? The E class can but don't.
It wasn't mentioned, but I doubt it.
I doubt the G1 trams will be coupled together. Their designs has been inspired by the B Class trams which have shown to be good people movers across the networks, hence the G1's being shorter than the E (3 segment) trams.
@@chrismckellar9350 The B class trams were originally intended to run in coupled pairs some of the time. In fact, a coupled set of three section G class trams seems preferable to the five section one I have seem illustrated.
@@Myrtone - B Class has shown their versatility to be used anywhere on the network. The G's are in essence the B's replacement as the G's will have the ability to be used anywhere on the network.
Yes, I know the G's will also replace the Z3's and A's and possibly the C's.
The proposed second batch of the G's which could be 4 or 5 segment sets will replace the D's as the C's & D's are not designed and built for the operating conditions of the network.
The E's & G's are the new Melbourne Tram specification.
I wonder if taitset went to the metro party. My pare said no after we could go cause heavy rain
I like the more modern design that reflects the next generation of trams in Melbourne. I believe Yarra Trams should have 100 G Class trams like the first design shown. Then another order should be purchased with the longer sections known as the G2 class.
The initial order is for 100 G1 3 segment trams.
Looks like a Beluga whale swimming on its back.
I love our melbourne g class train 😂
great video, thx
I love to see these new trams at airport west 😊 🚃
Seems like a very cool new tram but will miss the old look of the z’s and a’s when they get removed… maybe one day Melbourne could try making more rolling stock with the top sticking out like the z a or b?
This is cool
very cool! how did you get invited to that workshop?
There was a fan of the channel on the team 😉
@@Taitset ha, lucky!
@@deviousjupiter8606 invite yourself over lol, 130-38 link road, tullamarine, victoria
If this has problems with the curves on the 82 (leeds into Hopkins etc) then i shall laugh (and i still want trams back on Spencer turning into flinders!)
Great video
We need to call this the Hapsberg Jaw class
What's the go with the blank white looking desto? Is that a viewing angle thing or just displaying white at times due to not being driven with the right content?
As for the timber seats, I honestly thought it was just for quick fabrication for prototyping. Timber feels like a terrible choice for being vandal resistant.
I think the desto is just overexposed in some shots.
awesome
They look like a Z and E had a baby
nice
NEXT GEN OFTrams hay Taitset i have been to mcconnell saet's
Bro why does thing tram look like handsome squidward 💀 😂 😭
Why do the screens still all have white backgrounds ☹️☹️☹️
They make other aspects accessible but the screens are still so hard to read
I like the older trams on the network more than the newer ones.
@@СлаваССС-м4с I don't give a crap about your petty complaints. I'm talking about ascetics and the way the city feels. I'm talking about something transcendent. You can live in your bug man city with it's fast efficient trains that look like giant condoms. It will be even more deracinate than the city currently is and you may not know why you feel a sinking emptiness inside, but this will be one of the reasons.
Yarra trams is not a museum service.
@@Myrtone that doesn't mean he trams have to be incredibly ugly!
@@hamesparde9888 My point was missed, only a museum service would keep around older trams for nostalgia.
@@Myrtone it's not a museum if it has a practical use other than nostalgia. That's not a museum.
Excuse my naivety but may I ask , as a new resident to Melbourne , why is the tram under strict tight security hidden in a warehouse?
I assume they just don't want people coming and poking around, given it isn't on public display.
82 is our home tram network system tram 😂
I can't wait to see these guys in service, but I love the Z class so it'll be bitter sweet knowing they're replacing them
As someone with mobility issues, I'm not a fan of the raised seats. I don't use a wheelchair but for elderly people and people like myself, id rather priority seats be flush with the floor
Looks good I guess. I still would love to see exterior design nods to the W class but with a modern twist. It also occurs to me that Melbourne really does have a lot of prior and present experience with EV construction and it’s a shame it’s not extended to the car market which if done right could make up for the huge loses from GMH, Ford and Toyota etc shutting down Aussie car manufacturing.
they should just upgrade the suspension of it
Still nothing for bikes? Do we know why?
You sound like the coldfusion guy!
WHY ARE THEY REPLACING THE A AND Z CLASS TRAMS. THEY ARE ONE OF MY FAVOURITE TRAMS
Because they're 40 years old, very low capacity, and not wheelchair accessible.
You missed why they would use 'G' if it was associated with a word. That word would be 'Green', as in Green energy. Signalling that it uses 40%+ less energy per passenger.
4:22 You've got a head like an old train!
that a way people censor their faces just adding an image (mostly a black box) on their heads...
News: New G-Class on the way.
Me: okay but what does Taitset think of it…
82 is my best tram i love near my home maidstone
Melbourne, the city with the biggest tram network😅.
Victoria is making their own trams and Sydney are buying shitty trains from overseas countries, messing up the order so it doesn’t fit the platforms
Gotta say, really not a fan of how little seating there is compared to the z class. For inner city routes it makes sense, people hopping on and off constantly, but the 82 needs seats, not standing room.
YEEEESSSSS!
Looks fantastic!
Can't wait till they get rid of those pieces of crap C and D class, (though I note you said they would replace Z and A class first, which is ok as I hate the A class too). I hate both of them, just awful trams. Except for the Bumblebees, they are a bit better
Also same streetcar that Toronto TTC used
Both came from Bombardier but they are very different models, with different configurations.
Did I see halogen headlights? Sureely just for display. There are things called LEDs now....😅
The headlights would be just dummy fittings, I'm not sure what the final plan is there.
Really interesting and informative video, thanks Martin. As someone who moved away from Melbourne in the mid 90s, I’m still getting my head around just how far things have come, so this video really puts things into perspective. And of course, I’ll be bitterly disappointed if the car doesn’t make accordion noises as it goes around corners!
Is your generation list as follows? 1st gen - cable trams. 2nd gen - pre-MMTB four-wheel and maximum traction trams. 3rd gen - W series trams. 4th gen - 1041 and the Z trams. 5th gen - A and B trams. 6th gen - C, D, and E trams. 7th gen - this new type.
I think their logic was:
1 - Horse/cable trams
2 - early electric
3 - W
4 - Z/A/B
5 - C/D
6 - E
7 - G
Personally I think I'd split early electric into 4-wheel and bogie, and I kind of feel like the E and G should be combined despite the various advances on the G. Though that still gets to the same overall number!