Tim, I'm running a middle school aeronautics summer camp, I'm going to use this video as a training video for design and building. This is just very nicely laid out so I appreciate that you have done this video.
I believe your explanation for lack of rudder control is totally on point. It would appear that the small amount of thrust generated was overwhelmed by the increased drag of the wider and open fuselage. I will keep this in mind with my scratch builds.
Thanks for the video. I built and crashed 3 times a mini cub that saw in the park pilot website. The rudder was worthless. Will copy your wing design and add ailerons. Leo.
The way you build, the wings are actually undercabered so produce high lift which is good for slow or indoor and park flyers , and work pretty good when used with enough dihedral in cabin or high winged planes. But for low winged planes, because of the high lift they produce , more dihedral is requred to reach required spiral stability ... so think the lack of flow around the fin and rudder was not the only problem that caused crashes in first attempts ... you can still build stable rudder - elevator low wing models with much less cambered wings and a bit mor dihedral .... also lowering aspect ratio migh be of some useful effect Thanks for sharing this video , and showing the way you cut ribs from foam ... i have tried to make ribs from the foam but the results were not satisfying Thanks again
MHS: Excellent design points, thanks so much for sharing! The test flight with rudder control was strange. At first I thought the rudder control rod was not connected. Live and learn. 😁 Tim
I also noticed the moving part of the rudder stops above the upper line of the fuselage. All my trainers had a rudder that widened towards the fuselage horizontal centreline and continued under the level of the stabiliser. This design adds some complexity but has the advantage of catching the airstream at the lower part of the fuselage.
Great job and well explained. The only comment I'd like to make about the model is about the openings in the fuselage. This could interfere with the flight because of air that gets trapped inside and the way it exits the model. Maybe that is why the rudder did not function properly. The profile model had no such issues because it's flat and air can flow alongside without any drag. Just an observasion. Keep up the good work and looking forward to more future valid instructions.
@@TimMcKay56 I'm planning to build an airplane , with my own radio control circuit and design now I'm developing the firmware for the radio control. I'm designing the circuit my self to reduce the cost of an expensive radio control. although I made an rc airboat which is a Bluetooth Controlled one and it is totally designed and made by me , hardware and software , even the android apps too. It took me 18 days to develop but it's really fun. I would love to show my airboat to you. I hope you check my airboat. this is not an invitation for all. it is just for you Tim and not for to increase my views please don't misunderestimate me. you can always delete this comment Tim. I hope you will check my airboat ( Little Bee )Thank you. 😊❤️ Aneeshmurali
Excellent video. Could you provide a link, Part # or other good way to find the flight pack with Rx, servos, esc and motor? There are many hits that give very little description
Nice video thanks. I wonder if there was disruption of airflow due to the open fuselage and whether covering at least the dorsal with paper would help? I plan on learning with the profile model you presented.
Chilarai: I do think an airflow disruption was part of the problem. Really took my by surprise, but live a learn. Even Boeing, when flight testing the real airliner, learns things not known from the design or wind tunnel tests. Tim
Do you have video of the conversion you did on the blue and orange foam (hand flying) plane? I have some for my kids and am very interested in converting one. Thanks!
BR: You have to hunt around a bit to find these electronics (China supply issues, etc.). www.StevensAero.com is a good start. I also did a video. ua-cam.com/video/3EGDubskwqA/v-deo.html Tim
try relocating the engine. Move it closer to the top of the nose instead of under it. The propeller diameter used is not large enough to overcome the height of the nose and provide airflow to the rudder. Try the same design with a profile hull and you will not have a problem because the profile hull does not have a rectangular wall to prevent air flow to the rudder.
The cuts in the wing would work better on the under side. Not a big deal for a slow flyer, but a smooth airfoil is always better. Same thing on the fuse, put the cuts on the inside. It will work, and on the inside, you can drop some hot glue in the slit to really make it solid.
thank you for going super in detail with your explanations, I built three RC planes using foamboard and they would either be too heavy or would be unstable, thank you for helping me understand what I did wrong... I'm currently building a plane that should carry a good amount of weight and be stable in the air, do you have any recommendations or tips you could tell me please?. Abdulla
There are so many out there, no complete list I am aware of. Best bet is to ask the receiver maker if your Spektrum transmitter will bind. Plan B is to check www.RCGroups.com
These micro units come and go with the challenges with supply chains from China. When you Google, ParkZone ultramicro is a good search term. Best bet is to check in with and email to www.StevensAero.com as they have numerous airplane kits designed around these micro RC components.
I have just built a same plane like your , but smaller , could you tell me where is the CG of this plane , since the plane's airfoil is hard for me to located it
@@TimMcKay56 Sir ,there is one last question i want to ask you that if i use the PVC food wrap to cover the surface below the wing , does it have a better lift thrust and efficiency like real airplane , cause in the video i saw that the wing's bottom is empty, compare to other airplane that has a cover below
Someday I hope to build a real plane. RC planes are really cool, you can experiment while building them, and learn lots of usefull things without having to actually fly a plane and crash :D
@@TimMcKay56 Tim thx so much for all the help you give us guys. I live in Ringgold Ga, if you are ever this way give me a shout, I would love yo meet you, God bless.
Tim could you suggest me a motor and prop combo for an airplane having all up weight 160 grams. Here the 160 gram is without including the motor and propeller. Thank you. Aneeshmurali.
Aneeshmurali: 160 grams is around 5.5 ounces. A bit over what my Guillows Zero weighed. I honestly do not have anything I can recommend in this range, it is always a search for me. I generally start with E-flite motors, see what their smallest motor is. Ofter these charts list a recommended weight for the model. Tim
@@TimMcKay56That's why i wonder Tim. Here, The 1.5gm servos are not available, coill servos are not available but 9gram servos are everywhere. If I import the parts it's going to be too expensive. so, it's a difficult task to make the airplane lighter. But without electronics like battery motors,etc. the aircraft weight is only about 61grams. So I'm thinking about the combination of multiple 3.7v 8520 coreless motors. each motor with prop combo is only 5 grams. But each motor will provide 25 to 27 grams of thrust. So I'm planning to mound the motors on both sides of the wing with CW CCW props so it will balance itself. From this two motors I will get 54 grams of thrust. Im planning to use differential thrust to turn the airplane and a 9gram servo to control the elevator. There is no rudder and aileron controls. but according to my plan differential thrust to make the turns and a single 9gram servo to pitch. Now the estimated all up weight with all the electronics including battery is 115 grams and thrust is 54 grams. So my question is can I take off a 115 gram aircraft with 54 grams of thrust. It's wingspan is about 27 inches with 5.5 inch wing chord. Airfoil type, undercambered. If the thrust is not enough we can add additional 2 motors on both sides. Which will add additional 11 gram. but also we get additional 54 gram of thrust so (115+11) now the all up weight is 126 and the thrust is 108 grams almost close to 1:1 ratio. Let me know your thoughts on it. Thank you. Aneeshmurali.❤️😊.
@@Ciiads I think you are a leader on this, and the best way ahead is to make an estimate, which what you have done, build it and see how it will fly! The smaller models always a challenge with whatever is available to control and power them. I think you are on the right track to experiment, see what works! Tim
Do you think making the Tail taller or the Rudder bigger would have improved that? or maybe since it is a Lower wing configuration it's simply not getting enough speed to get the air to the tail it needs? Both are just immediate theories I had after seeing it and have no real knowledge in that area, really enjoyed the video and might play around with this design you have here myself
Nice designs.Could I ask what diameter pushrods you use,and what size and where do you source your control horns? The ones available for models like the Champ are pretty flimsy.Also,have you done any planes using brushless components,such as in the e-flite Timber? Thanks in advance.
DC: I have a collection of various sizes of music wire. I use the finest (smallest) diameter wire that I think will hold up to save weight. There really isn't that much force on the control surfaces with these smaller models. Just ensure the wire pushrods are adequately supported along their control runs, as flexing will be a problem. I use Dubro mini-control horns. Type this into Amazon search. Do not but the Dubro horns (as they are too expensive). Rather there will be an Amzaon (Best Buy) that is the same thing. Hot glue holds them in place nicely on the foam board. I actually have an E-flite Timber. All of my models use brushless motors, except for the ParkZone motor. No need, really, with these tiny motors. Gearing does the trick! Tim
Is there a name for the method you used while creating the wing I've heard of armins and a few others this is my favorite way bug I can't find any name for it to look it up
Trevor: The term "Armin Wing" was used on the UA-cam channel for Experimental Airlines, where the author used this phrase to describe employing foam board strips for wing spars in a foam board wing. I do not think that Armin really means anything. But the use of foam board spars truly works, such as in my Bronco airplane model. Tim
I'm not sure of the correct terminology.... Ae you mounting the motor mount at 90° ? FT and DW have a slight right hand angle, DW's also have a downward angle to the motor with the righthand angle.
DD: While the motor mount may be drawn on plans at 90 degrees, it usually works out best to have a slight (2-3 degree) right thrust and down thrust. A washer can usually help with the adjustment. Tim
Doyle: You are correct. I have since learned that YT will only allow five cards. Also, I need to make a note when I mention a card, so I can add it after posting to UA-cam. Tim
I enjoy how you go thru things for better or for worse.
David: When you design RC models, sometimes thinks just do not work out as planned. Always nice when there is a solution. 😃 Tim
Tim, I'm running a middle school aeronautics summer camp, I'm going to use this video as a training video for design and building.
This is just very nicely laid out so I appreciate that you have done this video.
AMK: Super, and thanks for this update! Best of luck with your class. Tim
I believe your explanation for lack of rudder control is totally on point. It would appear that the small amount of thrust generated was overwhelmed by the increased drag of the wider and open fuselage. I will keep this in mind with my scratch builds.
Tracy: Thanks for your update. I think ailerons are a great way to go with these smaller models. Tim
Great video sir, this is awesome !!
😊👍🏻 Tim
Thanks for the video. I built and crashed 3 times a mini cub that saw in the park pilot website. The rudder was worthless. Will copy your wing design and add ailerons. Leo.
Leo: Thanks for checking in and see you at the field, my friend! Tim
Great little flyer
😊👍🏻 Tim
thank you your videos really help
carry on
Many thanks!
The way you build, the wings are actually undercabered so produce high lift which is good for slow or indoor and park flyers , and work pretty good when used with enough dihedral in cabin or high winged planes. But for low winged planes, because of the high lift they produce , more dihedral is requred to reach required spiral stability ... so think the lack of flow around the fin and rudder was not the only problem that caused crashes in first attempts ... you can still build stable rudder - elevator low wing models with much less cambered wings and a bit mor dihedral .... also lowering aspect ratio migh be of some useful effect
Thanks for sharing this video , and showing the way you cut ribs from foam ... i have tried to make ribs from the foam but the results were not satisfying
Thanks again
MHS: Excellent design points, thanks so much for sharing! The test flight with rudder control was strange. At first I thought the rudder control rod was not connected. Live and learn. 😁 Tim
@@TimMcKay56 thanks to you now i know how to scrach build my foam wing , i leard a lot
Thanks
👍🏻😊🎄✈️ Tim
I also noticed the moving part of the rudder stops above the upper line of the fuselage. All my trainers had a rudder that widened towards the fuselage horizontal centreline and continued under the level of the stabiliser. This design adds some complexity but has the advantage of catching the airstream at the lower part of the fuselage.
Great job and well explained. The only comment I'd like to make about the model is about the openings in the fuselage. This could interfere with the flight because of air that gets trapped inside and the way it exits the model. Maybe that is why the rudder did not function properly. The profile model had no such issues because it's flat and air can flow alongside without any drag. Just an observasion. Keep up the good work and looking forward to more future valid instructions.
Joseph: Very good point on the airflow issue, and thanks for viewing the channel! Tim
This airplane is beautiful.❤️👌😊
Aneeshmurali: Many thanks! Tim
@@TimMcKay56 I'm planning to build an airplane , with my own radio control circuit and design now I'm developing the firmware for the radio control. I'm designing the circuit my self to reduce the cost of an expensive radio control. although I made an rc airboat which is a Bluetooth Controlled one and it is totally designed and made by me , hardware and software , even the android apps too.
It took me 18 days to develop but it's really fun. I would love to show my airboat to you. I hope you check my airboat. this is not an invitation for all. it is just for you Tim and not for to increase my views please don't misunderestimate me. you can always delete this comment Tim. I hope you will check my airboat ( Little Bee )Thank you. 😊❤️ Aneeshmurali
@@Ciiads One impressive project, congratulations. I am subscribed!! Tim
@@TimMcKay56 thanks for the good heart.😊
Excellent video. Could you provide a link, Part # or other good way to find the flight pack with Rx, servos, esc and motor? There are many hits that give very little description
Should be the Parkzone ultra-micro electronics. Sometimes hard to find. First stop is www.StevensAero.com Tim
Nice video thanks. I wonder if there was disruption of airflow due to the open fuselage and whether covering at least the dorsal with paper would help? I plan on learning with the profile model you presented.
Chilarai: I do think an airflow disruption was part of the problem. Really took my by surprise, but live a learn. Even Boeing, when flight testing the real airliner, learns things not known from the design or wind tunnel tests. Tim
Excellent point! I can imagine air coming up through the bottom
Do you have video of the conversion you did on the blue and orange foam (hand flying) plane? I have some for my kids and am very interested in converting one. Thanks!
Not yet . . . 😔 Tim
Where did you find that chip that contains the ESC? That would be handy for me because I want to design and build a mini WW2 era fighter.
BR: You have to hunt around a bit to find these electronics (China supply issues, etc.). www.StevensAero.com is a good start. I also did a video. ua-cam.com/video/3EGDubskwqA/v-deo.html Tim
try relocating the engine. Move it closer to the top of the nose instead of under it. The propeller diameter used is not large enough to overcome the height of the nose and provide airflow to the rudder. Try the same design with a profile hull and you will not have a problem because the profile hull does not have a rectangular wall to prevent air flow to the rudder.
Great points, thanks! Tim
The cuts in the wing would work better on the under side. Not a big deal for a slow flyer, but a smooth airfoil is always better. Same thing on the fuse, put the cuts on the inside. It will work, and on the inside, you can drop some hot glue in the slit to really make it solid.
Corey: Great point, many thanks! Tim
You can also use a little heat and drag it across a rounded table edge or pipe to curve it.
thank you for going super in detail with your explanations, I built three RC planes using foamboard and they would either be too heavy or would be unstable, thank you for helping me understand what I did wrong... I'm currently building a plane that should carry a good amount of weight and be stable in the air, do you have any recommendations or tips you could tell me please?. Abdulla
Abdulla: Try my foam board Bronco. Easy to build, light and flies great! Tim
What hardware with recievers for micro planes that could connect/bind to my spectrum transmitter?
There are so many out there, no complete list I am aware of. Best bet is to ask the receiver maker if your Spektrum transmitter will bind. Plan B is to check www.RCGroups.com
what receiver/servo board are you using and where can it be had? Googling got me the AirTractor replacement board...but nothing else.
These micro units come and go with the challenges with supply chains from China. When you Google, ParkZone ultramicro is a good search term. Best bet is to check in with and email to www.StevensAero.com as they have numerous airplane kits designed around these micro RC components.
I have just built a same plane like your , but smaller , could you tell me where is the CG of this plane , since the plane's airfoil is hard for me to located it
CG is 25% back from wing leading edge.
@@TimMcKay56 thanks you very much sir, wish you have a nice day and always happy to make these helpful guide video for beginner like us ::))
@@khangweak Thanks for checking in!
@@TimMcKay56 Sir ,there is one last question i want to ask you that if i use the PVC food wrap to cover the surface below the wing , does it have a better lift thrust and efficiency like real airplane , cause in the video i saw that the wing's bottom is empty, compare to other airplane that has a cover below
@@khangweak It is better to cover the bottom of the wing. I do not on some of my smaller models to save a bit of weight.
Someday I hope to build a real plane. RC planes are really cool, you can experiment while building them, and learn lots of usefull things without having to actually fly a plane and crash :D
Donity: Best of luck! Tim
Do you have a electronic copy of the Guillows Arrow plans I could have ?
Steve: Negative, just paper copy. Do a Google search, the plans may pop up. Tim
Tim could you tell us the exact electronics that you used and where you got them, tkx.
Lewis: Horizon Hobby usually has most of the micro electronics. See video as well.
Tim
ua-cam.com/video/Erxv9bqzZDw/v-deo.html
@@TimMcKay56 Tim thx so much for all the help you give us guys. I live in Ringgold Ga, if you are ever this way give me a shout, I would love yo meet you, God bless.
Lewis: No worries, let’s get through Covid 19 and our vaccine shots first! Tim
Tim could you suggest me a motor and prop combo for an airplane having all up weight 160 grams. Here the 160 gram is without including the motor and propeller. Thank you.
Aneeshmurali.
Aneeshmurali: 160 grams is around 5.5 ounces. A bit over what my Guillows Zero weighed. I honestly do not have anything I can recommend in this range, it is always a search for me. I generally start with E-flite motors, see what their smallest motor is. Ofter these charts list a recommended weight for the model. Tim
@@TimMcKay56That's why i wonder Tim.
Here, The 1.5gm servos are not available, coill servos are not available but 9gram servos are everywhere. If I import the parts it's going to be too expensive. so, it's a difficult task to make the airplane lighter.
But without electronics like battery motors,etc. the aircraft weight is only about 61grams.
So I'm thinking about the combination of multiple 3.7v 8520 coreless motors. each motor with prop combo is only 5 grams. But each motor will provide 25 to 27 grams of thrust.
So I'm planning to mound the motors on both sides of the wing with CW CCW props so it will balance itself.
From this two motors I will get 54 grams of thrust.
Im planning to use differential thrust to turn the airplane and a 9gram servo to control the elevator.
There is no rudder and aileron controls. but according to my plan differential thrust to make the turns and a single 9gram servo to pitch.
Now the estimated all up weight with all the electronics including battery is 115 grams and thrust is 54 grams.
So my question is can I take off a 115 gram aircraft with 54 grams of thrust.
It's wingspan is about 27 inches with 5.5 inch wing chord. Airfoil type, undercambered.
If the thrust is not enough we can add additional 2 motors on both sides. Which will add additional 11 gram. but also we get additional 54 gram of thrust so (115+11) now the all up weight is 126 and the thrust is 108 grams almost close to 1:1 ratio.
Let me know your thoughts on it.
Thank you.
Aneeshmurali.❤️😊.
@@Ciiads I think you are a leader on this, and the best way ahead is to make an estimate, which what you have done, build it and see how it will fly! The smaller models always a challenge with whatever is available to control and power them. I think you are on the right track to experiment, see what works! Tim
@@TimMcKay56 thank you ❤️.
Aneeshmurali.
Excelente
😊👍🏻
Do you think making the Tail taller or the Rudder bigger would have improved that?
or maybe since it is a Lower wing configuration it's simply not getting enough speed to get the air to the tail it needs?
Both are just immediate theories I had after seeing it and have no real knowledge in that area, really enjoyed the video and might play around with this design you have here myself
Saber: All good points. It is fun to try them out and see what works! Tim
Nice designs.Could I ask what diameter pushrods you use,and what size and where do you source your control horns? The ones available for models like the Champ are pretty flimsy.Also,have you done any planes using brushless components,such as in the e-flite Timber? Thanks in advance.
DC: I have a collection of various sizes of music wire. I use the finest (smallest) diameter wire that I think will hold up to save weight. There really isn't that much force on the control surfaces with these smaller models. Just ensure the wire pushrods are adequately supported along their control runs, as flexing will be a problem.
I use Dubro mini-control horns. Type this into Amazon search. Do not but the Dubro horns (as they are too expensive). Rather there will be an Amzaon (Best Buy) that is the same thing. Hot glue holds them in place nicely on the foam board.
I actually have an E-flite Timber. All of my models use brushless motors, except for the ParkZone motor. No need, really, with these tiny motors. Gearing does the trick! Tim
@@TimMcKay56 Thank -you for the info and quick reply.
Is there a name for the method you used while creating the wing I've heard of armins and a few others this is my favorite way bug I can't find any name for it to look it up
Trevor: The term "Armin Wing" was used on the UA-cam channel for Experimental Airlines, where the author used this phrase to describe employing foam board strips for wing spars in a foam board wing. I do not think that Armin really means anything. But the use of foam board spars truly works, such as in my Bronco airplane model. Tim
@@TimMcKay56 ok thank you
👍🏻 Tim
Where are you located in Georgia ?
Sugar Hill, 25 miles NE of Atlanta. Tim
Can't you tell me how to build the deck on the RC plane?
Just cut the foam to shape. Tim
Hi is this a brushed or non brushed motor and what size motor. Thanks
Kim: It is a brushed motor. Not quite sure on the size, as it is listed as a micro motor system. Further details at www.StevensAero.com Tim
I'm not sure of the correct terminology....
Ae you mounting the motor mount at 90° ?
FT and DW have a slight right hand angle, DW's also have a downward angle to the motor with the righthand angle.
DD: While the motor mount may be drawn on plans at 90 degrees, it usually works out best to have a slight (2-3 degree) right thrust and down thrust. A washer can usually help with the adjustment. Tim
I just got into building foam board airplane's myself.
SH: Foam board is a lot of fun! Tim
I think the vertical stabilizer and rudder are just too small for that slow flying airplane.
Barry: Thanks! Tim
what glue for foam ?
Glue stick that comes with any hot glue gun. I use a smaller size hot glue gun, $10 on Amazon. Glue dries in 15 seconds, perfect for foamboard. Tim
Your video cards are not showing up over head, you may want to add them in your description.
Doyle: You are correct. I have since learned that YT will only allow five cards. Also, I need to make a note when I mention a card, so I can add it after posting to UA-cam. Tim
@@TimMcKay56 Yes I'm sure you do not show any cards to click on.
Doyle: Just viewed the video, all cards showed fine. Not sure the issue. Tim
@@TimMcKay56 not seeing them on my side ask more viewer if they are see them.
@@TimMcKay56 I only made the comment to be helpful not to be mean to you.
Why my brain is comparing it to the ft mini scout🙄.
😊👍🏻 Tim