Eram caçadores mataram muitos animais indefesos pelo prazer de matar um dia o retorno bate a porta não importa se é um rico executivo bem sucedido ou um pobre a conta chega.
Living in and flying in Alaska, AND being a mortician, I learned how easy it is to “do nothing” as in don’t fly if something isn’t right or doesn’t feel right. Sit in the lodge, drink coffee, have a beer, tell stories, wait til tomorrow, drive instead, make two trips. It’s so easy when you’ve handled a few dead pilots and passengers.
Such an important lesson to learn. It isn't worth taking chances. Getting home late, missing a meeting, or something else is much better than never getting home at all. Some pilots seriously need to reconsider their priorities.
Imagine spending 3 hours attempting to de-ice a plane, not effectively or completely, and deciding to fly anyway, in a snow storm, with your family. That's well beyond stupid.
I agree, as it would be one thing to do it by yourself, say on a rescue mission like the famous flight to get needed medical supplies to your destination. But to endanger all your family members in those conditions is insane and tragic.
I’m a retired freight dog here and have lots of experience operating in areas much like this. If you can’t de ice the plane and keep it off, don’t go. One carrier I worked for basically said in its procedures manual that if there is freezing rain, just go home. Your video is spot on. You nailed it buddy.
@@donalddepew9605 You do realize that the NTSB report said nothing about ice causing the accident or contributing to the accident. It was bad piloting technique, pure and simple incompetence.
@@christophergagliano2051 It doesn't matter. Those conditions were horrendous. It's just a coincidence that the pilot also wrecked the plane due to over rotation and over loading. He might have crashed anyway without those factors due to the weather.
@@stopthephilosophicalzombie9017 I suspect the pilot got a full weather briefing so he knew where the tops of the overcast / snow clouds we're at. And if you look at the weather map that was presented during the video the weather at the crash site wasn't that bad compared to what was to the east. I don't think being a hundred pounds overweight contributed to the accident but for sure an AFT CG condition makes for a very difficult departure. This can be seen in the video right after takeoff the nose pitches up like 7° above normal AOA, That along with the AFT CG sealed their fate 😔
@@christophergagliano2051AGAIN, Sorry but I disagree with a "too-quick to close down" rush to conclusions by a possibly overworked present day NTSB... not really on Commercial aviation, but too frequently seen when the agency treats a large bunch of "just GA amateurs" accidents... Ice on the horizontal tail, especially on a "T-tail" plane prone to go into a "Super-Stall" condition can have a LARGER effect than on conventional tail aircraft... Second, the ice accreted on the elevator can alter the Mass-Balance of the control surface, that very well could alter the feedback "feel" of the pitch control or cause Elevator Flutter (a kind of "Aeroelastic phenomena"), enough to start the otherwise improbable "PIO" (Pilot Induced Oscillation) that seems to me to be improbable for a pilot with so many hours on this model. I am not trying to justify the pilot behavior during Rotation, Take-Off and initial Climb; but it just seems to me that just fully EXCLUDING Ice from considering it a possible Contributting Factor is just too quick and dirty way of putting this accident aside to continue with the growing of pile of pending cases waiting on the desks...
With the rate of precipitation as seen in the video, and not having had 100% deicing with heated glycol along with no concern the horizontal stab because he couldn't reach it .Unbelievable !
Man, back when I used to fly planes, something similar happened to me where I killed ten people. I was one of the lucky ones to make it. Or ONLY lucky one, I should say. I wasn't rated for the particular aircraft I was piloting. It was a twin engine and I was only qualified for a single. Not that big of a deal. The main problem was I couldn't find our destination AND I didn't have enough fuel, only a quarter of the amount we needed. Surprised we made it as far as we did. Make sure you gas up before depart. There aren't gas stations up in the clouds, lol.
really it is just not good to be out in period! people try anyway in winter all over the country - and recently now the southern states are having ice and snow every year - and the cars go sliding everywhere (even though drivers are trying to be careful!) winding up in ditches or wherever! however, in an airplane there are no ditches
Kyani a multi level marketing scam. Must be big money in placebo supplements because the entire family lived off that scam supplements company. No wonder kirk was such an arrogant prikkk. He figured if he and family could all live off of a company that was being sued for being a scam, he must have been a superior human being. I guess thats one way to stop a scam artist multi level marketing thief from robbing anyone else. 😅
In the 80’s I lived in South Eastern New England. Worked 42 miles a way just north of Boston, waited too long to leave work during a daytime blizzard, two hours later got in an accident 15 miles from home. Never made that mistake again. I couldn’t imagine risking my family’s lives to fly in that weather. If any family members are reading this, I’m sorry about your massive loss, but I’m sure you know that the pilots really made a bad decision flying an overloaded, poorly de-iced plane in horrific weather.
Started flying 53 years ago. When I started, my senior instructor said just remember:" Many a pilot killed in weather are buried on a sunny day." I kept that in mind throughout my career and it probably saved my butt a few times. Another great analysis! Thanks!!
Hell I don’t like to even drive a car or truck in those conditions and stopping by the hardware store to get some isopropyl alcohol to make ends meet on a schedule just seems asinine.
Thank you too!; I’ll remember his quote when losing it during periods of minor everyday aggravations, [e.g. automobile traffic and personal set deadlines for arriving on time] in the future; perhaps may even save my life and that of others; learned so much from this episode, as Hoover so eloquently states numerous times, my deepest sympathies for all involved in this video-the souls of the dearly departed and their remaining loving families will be remembered in the prayers of viewers, because of Pilot Debrief.
Korea. Flying a military B-200 that had been outside all weekend along with another B-200. Monday morning found both aircraft covered with about 3” of snow and maintenance working to clear the snow off both aircraft along with using de-ice fluid. They had a man lift to reach the T-tail. Maintenance had the wings all clear and asked me to up on the lift to look at the tail. It was clear of snow and dripping with deice fluid and looked clear. I ran my hand over the surface and felt a very slightly rough surface, but nothing visible. I said it was OK and proceed to taxi and takeoff. Sister aircraft was just behind me. It was VMC and we rotated at normal speed and brought he nose up to the normal pitch attitude of 18-20 degrees and the aircraft and controls began to vibrate. I lowered the nose and quickly gained airspeed, called tower and said I was returning to land. The was some higher terrain on downwind leg that I had to climb above. Every time I raised the nose above 10 degrees, the vibration would start. My sister aircraft took off just a few minutes behind me. I was able to nurse the aircraft around the pattern and as I was turning base I heard my sister aircraft call tower and report that they were returning to land due to a vibration in the aircraft. We both landed safely taxied in, shut down and told maintenance why we returned. I immediately became a believer that no aircraft should attempt to fly with ANY ice on the control surfaces - even if you can’t see it. If you had told me beforehand that the “slightly rough” surface on the T-tail would cause what felt like an impending stall (stall warning never sounded) I would not have believed it. I do now.
His plane was even covered in snow. You are first person i see mention surface. Fuselage is specifically made to be smooth. His plane was literally covered in snow and ice they just seemed to remove bulk of it
I fly helicopters and some of the ones we fly have little placard stickers out near the blade tips (little warning to never pull down on a blade tip during cleaning or inspections). The stickers are maybe the size of a stick of chewing gum. My boss once had one of those stickers start peeling off a blade, and it caused such a severe vibration that they did a precautionary landing. Airfoils are no joke: it does not take a big change in shape or surface texture to cause problems.
If the guy driving the snowplow says you're crazy he ain't just whistling dixie. So sad the pilot thought getting home was more important than protecting his family.
The guy plowing the snow is just a blue-collar “no body”. Mr Pilot was richer and smarter, in his mind. He knew better and far more than some lowly employee from a small airport.
I’m not a pilot and know nothing about flying but the two things I’ve learned from watching your videos is over confidence and complacency will get you and others killed real quick.
It looks safe but the sky is a 100% hostile environment where human life can't sustain itself. You might as well be 1 mile under the sea, or in outer space. While you can breathe in the sky you can't float by yourself, and you will die 100% of the time you are in the air without the aid of an aeroplane or other floatation device like a parachute.
@davidbruce7806 The honesty is that this holds true for driving a car and especially on a motorcycle and piloting an aircraft. Situational awareness is what keeps you safe, no matter what mode of travel you use...I fly planes and I've ridden over 180,000 kilometres on motorcycles in the last 10 years
Man, back when I used to fly planes, something similar happened to me where I killed ten people. I was one of the lucky ones to make it. Or ONLY lucky one, I should say. I wasn't rated for the particular aircraft I was piloting. It was a twin engine and I was only qualified for a single. Not that big of a deal. The main problem was I couldn't find our destination AND I didn't have enough fuel, only a quarter of the amount we needed. Surprised we made it as far as we did. Make sure you gas up before depart. There aren't gas stations up in the clouds, lol.
I apologize to the family for what I’m about to say. I was a helicopter maintenance test pilot in the Army, 32 years. I literally had to cancel a mission in Afghanistan once, where people’s lives were in the balance, due to icing on our helicopters that we couldn’t remove. It is absolutely ridiculous and tragic that this pilot made this decision. Terrible judgment.
That says it all right there! If you canceled a military mission due to conditions, then a return flight from a hunting trip can be canceled. Rifles, ammo & meat would've been even more weight too.
As a 25 year bush pilot from years past, I've encountered "get home itis" in many fashions and have unfortunately recognized this situation with others. Thank you for bringing it to light and my condolences for the family involved. Your videos are a great instruction to those in the industry.
Sadly, the men in charge (able to know better) had NO consideration for the children. Had any Mom been there to witness the conditions, their children would've been pulled, guaranteed.
@@FreeRadicals305 I don't think he had no consideration for his children. I think he fell into an unfortunately common mental trap. He'd probably been in a situation where he'd pushed snow off the wings before and nothing had happened. He normalized it as a nothingburger - been there, done that. But this time he had a full load of people, and not even enough seats to hold them. Unless you're willing to say that he intentionally committed suicide with all those people on board, then you're left with the fact that he did what lots of dead people have done: rationalized that it was gonna be fine. That said, I don't think that he was a safety-conscious pilot, and it's that fact, that lack of an iron-clad commitment to safety that got everyone killed.
As the old saying goes, it's better to be on the ground wishing you were flying than be flying and praying to be back on the ground. The actions of that pilot are beyond belief.
The type of vid format is where you really shine Hoover. Your prep work and tight practiced delivery makes the drama and lessons come through loud and clear.
I have not found any other person who can analyze, explain, and organize a video any better than Hoover!!!! As a pilot, I always understand what happened and feel like his consideration for the 'victims' is fair and compassionate.
@@markadams7328 Hoover and Blancolirio are the two best. Complete objective breakdowns of the incident. Always obviously pained by the result but their videos are saving lives, I'm sure. Good reminders of how not to behave. Always check your level of bias, from preplanning to parked and tied down.
@@donaldsalkovick396 Who peed in your Cherrios this morning? I'm pretty sure it wasn't Hoover. Your comment says more about you than him. Where is your channel with 629,000 subscribers, and 100's of videos that serve to help pilots recognize serious issues and how to prevent repeating them- thus saving lives? And what's wrong with that again? This man served our country in the military flying planes for years, but you disrespect him? You're out of line. And you don't have a clue about researching sources and making these videos. So far the score is: Hoover 629,000 and climbing, Donald Duck 0. Jealousy is an ugly look, DonnieBoy.
I will never understand this type of apparent disregard for safety, especially when multiple lives are involved. I simply do not understand this mindset.
Thank you. You pass on vital lessons in an utmost respectful way. The 4 generations part really hurts. What you share helps it to not be in vain. -Peace&Blessings
I'm a former 121 pilot (A330, B737) and now Part 91 (Pilatus PC-24). The pilot's niece - and her husband - are family friends. I've never spoken to them in depth about this accident because I don't want to dig up old memories and bring back the hurt that comes with it. But knowing what I know, the pilot was unbelievably stupid at best - and criminally negligent at worst. If he had survived, he should have been charged as such. This was a classic example of an accident that was totally avoidable and didn't need to happen.
Sadly, part of the issue is that having lots of money doesn't do a single thing to improve your judgement and reasoning ability in situations like this. I believe it actually has a detrimental impact on those specific faculties. Some deeper human mental issue often makes the rich feel they are superior and impervious to the basic physical laws of the universe that us mere mortals are subject to. There are nearly unlimited examples of rich guys killing themselves and others in airplanes because they think that buying the fanciest airplane is a substitute for experience and good judgement. I mean, after all, if they have proven their ability to succeed in the financial world while so many others fail why wouldn't they automatically be superior in the other endeavors of life? Aviation isn't the only discipline that proves them wrong but it's usually the best and fastest way to disprove their erroneous belief.
@@kmalerich you nailed it. Sure, there are always exceptions, but I've seen a few too many examples of successful entrepreneurs with a passion for aviation, minimal experience in said pursuit of aviation activities - and huge wallets to go out and buy more airplane than they can handle. This is why I have a blanket rule to never fly with an owner pilot. There can only ever be one Pilot in Command - and I'm not interested in putting myself in a situation where I make a command decision based on decades of professional experience, only to be countered by the other guy arguing that it's "my airplane, my rules." That would not end well for either of us. Granted, this guy had a couple thousand hours - but no commercial/ATP level qualifications, just a PPL and a PPL attitude to go with it. Actually, that is unfair to many conscientious and capable PPL holders. No, this guy was stupid, arrogant and criminally negligent.
Agree. I just read the actual final report. Seems he had a few bad habits, that didn't seem to bite him, until they did. Unfortunately he took many with him. Scary part is there is a lot of this going on. I have watched dozens of videos, read a number of detailed reports, and it happens EVERY year. Year in year out.
Sorry Sir. I will be thought of as a bad guy. But passengers pressing the pilot to get home are LESS sympathetic, their deaths LESS TRAGIC than would be the deaths of innocent people, for example, in a commercial flight context, where the passengers have nearly zero input. Here, all passengers other than the five-year-old earned their Darwin Awards.
@@davidowen9671 I am not a pilot. Actually never flown in anything other than commerical. That said, the pilot is the flight CEO and all decisions rest with him. I may have missed where these passengers were 'pressing him' but if you have final responsibilty, you ignore the pleadings of others because YOU are the captain and decisions rest with you. I can't imagine what that family has been through since this tragedy.
I was a Flight Paramedic for 9 years, 84 to 93 in Colorado, flying UH-1V's. We had numerous pilots, and the missions involved were for serious/critical patients which was a stressor to press the completion of a flight. However, the entire crew's opinion was always considered and that was a big influence in go/no goes. I trusted them and they kept me safe, thanks guys.
This right here: the "Yes/Not Yes" way of thinking. Consider the input from multiple people, wx, aircraft, airport & other conditions, capabilities and limitations, sum it all up and then decide: "Does all this, taken together, add up to exceed my threshold to decide "Yes"? If not, then it's "Not Yes". Then you can start talking to your and other people's emotional not-so-smart brain processing self that believes in magic and "wishing makes it so" and say emotional things to it like "I'm sorry we're not going now, yes, it sucks. But the highly educated 'adults in the room' considered everything and came to the conclusion it's too dangerous to go, so we're not going. That's the final decision. Accept it. Cry, whine, roll on the floor, threaten punishment or retaliation or whatever, but the decision isn't changing. Let it go, and move on. Perhaps you'll be in an uncomfortable emotional state for a while, but you'll be alive."
If your pilot was "stressed to complete a flight" due to the criticality of the patient, he needs to find another field of employment. I've been flying EMS as a PILOT for over 30 years, and (rightfully so) the patient's condition is never a concern to me.
Man, back when I used to fly planes, something similar happened to me where I killed ten people. I was one of the lucky ones to make it. Or ONLY lucky one, I should say. I wasn't rated for the particular aircraft I was piloting. It was a twin engine and I was only qualified for a single. Not that big of a deal. The main problem was I couldn't find our destination AND I didn't have enough fuel, only a quarter of the amount we needed. Surprised we made it as far as we did. Make sure you gas up before depart. There aren't gas stations up in the clouds, lol.
I grew up in avaition, and I saw multiple examples of this "fly or be damned" attitude. As my dad's flying friends bought the farm one by one, it finally became apparent that being a casual, once-in-a-while flyer was the most dangerous pilot you could be.
With 2500h, Kirk wasn't on eof those "once-in-a-while" flyers IMO. He had quite some experience. But I agree with you in general. Many accident videos of rich people buying aircraft and barely flying them.
@@Wolfhound_81but he was a bit rusty since his log book's last recorded flight was exactly one year prior to the crash. A bit risky imoo to fly 11 members of your family in a plane without enough seating for everyone in those weather conditions when it had been a year since your last flight.
@@EA-vd4gd Final report notes, he had few questionable 'techniques', and they finally caught up with him. Tendency to rotate early, under speed and abruptly. In this case with the misloaded plane, too much weight and not balance
As a sailor, I was taught that "get-there-itis" kills. The other thing I learned was that as the skipper, I was responsible for the safety of my passengers and that was my highest priority.
This is a family of entrepreneurs. I'd assume that their prevailing mindset is: we can get it done, no matter what. Unfortunately, physics and nature don't really care about that.
Men to that....wether air sea or land.... in weather like that stay home...dely your flight... I dont care how good you think you are you can't handle that amount of workload and fly... I e even a tiny amount. An ruin your day.. so an a bad weight and balance calculation.... sad they went that way but hey play stupid games win stupid prizes... no disrespect but I don't know why people don't know when they should /shouldn't fly.... sometimes you can take-off anthill end up in trouble.... let alone taking off in a dead set snow storm no deicing and not be coherent enough to realise hey shitty day stay in....I mean how bad does the weather have to be b4 you say nope.... I think the airport Mr should have refused to allow him to fly personally. But you can't lead a horse to water....I guess
The conceit is that technology overcomes reality. Two hundred years ago, a traveler accepted a delay because they knew they couldn't defy the reality of the storm... ...but today? Need I remind you the phrase "We could put a man on the Moon, but we can't get there because of a few snowflakes?" These days we depend on metal and silicon to overpower the world's problems. Instead of _common sense._
You must not live in the snow belt. You don't generally have a choice, you can't just miss work three days at a time every couple weeks all winter because it's snowing. But with a car you can get snow tires, drive slow, as long as it's not glare ice you will probably get there okay, and generally the worst that will happen is you will get stuck, maybe bump a guardrail (although the morons who think their Audi SUV is fine to cruise at 70 in the snow with no visibility just because it's going along fine in a straight line are a worry, especially in two lane roads). I would almost say it's safer in a storm because so many people do stay home and most of them are going much slower than usual). But yes, no need to drive unless you have to, and I definitely wouldn't fly.
@@donaldsalkovick396okay fine, but planes need to use the short bits of road they do use at like 150mph without snow tires. They need to land and stop from those speeds. If someone told you you had to drive in a storm but first you had to accelerate your car up to 150mph and then stop it again within two miles on the snow, it might make a difference to your planning. Especially if your car had a known tendency to lose control completely if any snow or ice built up on it and it was built like a tin foil box filled with 250 gallons of flammable fuel ready to ignite the moment the car went off the road and completely came to pieces. Cars aren't planes
Hoover, I'm not a pilot but this is an eye opener! if I ever happen to be in a situation like this as a passenger, it's a hard no for me. Thanks for the great debrief!
I really appreciate your commentaries. Very respectful, factual, educational, and generally informative. Thanks for all that you put into these analyses.
This one really blows my mind. Risking your life to do something this dumb is one thing, but risking your whole family, including a child, to do this is just mind blowing.
it goes to show people are the only species that is devolving back into primates. As in: we are deliberately being dumbed down and it shows almost everywhere.
Agreed, this is something the survivors don’t emotionally recover from. They had a 5 year old with them the pilot should have prioritized safety over anything else that is precious cargo, he will never get to redo that choice. Adults know when they are doing something risky those kids had no concept of the reality that this plane was very likely to crash in this situation.
Happy to see you back with your old format. Much preferable to the live chat one. Thank you for this great channel. One of the best for aviation safety.
When I was a kid we did this( sitting on the floor) in a friends airplane when your a kid or not a pilot you don’t have any clue. In fact a lot of things I did with instructors or friends in airplanes along the way , before I was a pilot myself I personally wouldn’t do today. Most of those pilots are very high time today and a considerably MORE daring today then they were then. All are known as VERY GOOD pilots in their respective communities. And unless it bites one of them will always be known as such.
My dad taught me when I was young, that "a nose heavy aircraft is hard to fly, but a tail heavy aircraft FLIES ONCE"!, and sometimes "you have to push the stick forward when you're looking at the ground". Dad said that "you have to learn one thing to be a good pilot", and as he put our Cessna into an intentional power on stall he said, "HOW NOT TO THROW UP". I miss him. RIP to the souls on board, and it's a miracle anyone survived.
It is very counterintuitive to push the stick forward when you're turning onto final at 200ft AGL and entering a stall while descending in a turn. And you can't roll out of your bank until you do. Most people in that situation try to level out first which instantly precipitates a spin. And then they're dead. All it takes to be safe is the right knowledge and Kirk had none of it. As an A&P, I know better than to even attempt that takeoff in the first place, which makes me think if you're going to be flying an aircraft this complex, with this many passengers, maybe a pilot's license just isn't enough. Maybe it is just time to require certification to Part 135 standards for people privately flying what amounts to a small commuter airliner. This plane had all the complexity of a turboprop airliner. The plane type is often used in that role in remote parts of the world. Somewhere along the way, Kirk missed out on some of the most important lessons he needed to learn and it is because private pilot licensing is incredibly lax when it comes to complex aircraft.
@@ChadDidNothingWrongno Mr do nothing. No one cares about something a billion years ago, especially when the Earth is only just over 6,000 years old. The true tragedy is the people who lost their lives right now in this time this era!!!
I'm a long-time pilot, who's owned two different aircraft over the years. I've seen lots of UA-cam aviation folks and some of those are very good...but I have to say, you have the BEST incident reviews. Your style is respectful, professional, and thorough. Well done, sir.
As somebody who spent 13 years in Alaska as an A&P, I never saw any pilot try a takeoff with the tail of their aircraft covered in ice and snow, the guy was a complete idiot and had no business with a pilot's license, it's just a shame that other people had to pay the price for his stupidity.
You recommend getting a&p? I started school for it a few weeks ago, but I'm considering dropping it and becoming electrician. Still I'm already in school...
@@qigongkylar944I been an A&P since 1976 it’s a great carrier , both being an electrician and a A&P are a good choice although my experience is both are dictated by the economy . There is currently a shortage in both fields so I don’t think you will go wrong in either. The one thing I would say is as an A&P you learn electrical, hydraulic, sheet metal , composite and engine systems so even if you don’t stay an A&P you value as a mechanic can get you a job in about any industry.
Had a friend who owns a Cirrus fly me and my girl to Orange Beach a couple years ago .. his only words to me was “ I don’t fly in bad weather “ .. my response to him was “ that’s why I chose you as my pilot “ .
When you have a lot of success in life (enough to afford a multi-million dollar plane in this case), you can start to get over confident about a great many things. Pretty soon, everyone else around you doesn't know what they are talking about and only you see things in a clear light. This can be incredibly dangerous thinking, as this story so aptly demonstrates.
God your comment immediately made me think of Donald Trump and how his arrogant belligerent attitude makes him unfit to lead America as president the same way many pilots get into dangerous situations and should not fly a plane. If I ever got on an aircraft and Donald Trump was sitting in the left seat I would immediately deplane.
As a former Air Force Wing Flight Safety Officer, I really appreciate your insight into there incidents. You are always so 'on point' and correct in your analysis. This accident is so tragic and avoidable. His passengers trusted his failed judgement...so very sad.
I think this is the angriest Hoover has ever sounded on one of these videos, and it's for good reason. This wasn't just a 'misunderstood one thing' or 'had a brief lapse of concentration' type or 'unexpectedly encountered a situation you had little experience with' error, which anyone can have on a bad day. This was just a horrible idea from start to finish.
I have been flying the Pilatus professionally for the past 8 years out of an airport in Pennsylvania and can say that using a broom to clear all of that snow without a ladder to reach the top of the wing was just insane. And did the pilot even consider that the top of the stabilizer, 10 feet above his head, had several inches of snow on it? I have had to make a takeoff with a small amount of snow on my wings as there is no deicing at the uncontrolled field where my plane is based. If it is snowing, we keep the plane in the heated hangar until all checklists are done down to hitting the start button, and the tug us hooked up. We then get pulled out of the hangar, start the engine and takeoff before the snow can accumulate. On takeoff roll, instead of lifting off at the 82 knot speed in the POH, I keep the plane on the ground until it lifts off by itself which tells me it can fly. I then keep the pitch angle very low and build airspeed in level flight before starting to climb. I saw a video of this pilot rotating abruptly and pitching up to a very steep angle which eventually led to a stall which was the reason for the crash. Just unbelievably stupid. Some pilots were born to kill themselves in an airplane and this guy was one of them.
I am not a really experienced pilot yet, but one thing i learned from the beginning: get enough airspeed in level flight (even if you are only "a few feet " above the ground) BEFORE you start climbing. I was stunned to see him climbing rapidly and instantly after take-off.
Wise comments from wisdom, experience and knowing your plane and the best conditions for it to fly. I always kept a deck of cards in my flight bag as a reminder that staying on the ground when in doubt is an acceptable option. We can get something good to eat and play cards. A day or two waiting can always mean the difference between life and death. We had a saying that they will bury you on a sunny day. So let’s just wait for the sunny day.
@@emgriffiths9743 Yeah. To be honest that pullback instict must have been the bane of many pilots. The worst thing to do when the plane is about to stall. I can't fathom how a stick shaker/pusher would cause someone to pull back hard. A few second of bliss and a long dark rest.
@@terjehansen0101 most pilots don't think like engineers. Think of energy like water flowing from the tap. It has to come from somewhere and if you play with it, you'll not have any water to drink....
Years ago, I took a brief flight with my best friend and an acquaintance of his who owned a plane. We were going to get some aerial photos of the land we were going to hunt. My friend has some experience with flying. I could see the concern on his face but I couldn't hear what the two of them were saying into their headsets. After the flight, he told me the pilot had ni idea how much fuel was on board, didn't know how much weight we had, didn't file a flight plan and refused to run the takeoff checklist. We never flew with him again.
I feel for the family but also for the FBO. I worked for and taught three brothers crop dusting. The oldest brother was the boss, and I avoided training him until last because of his attitude. He simply did as he pleased regardless of conditions or safety of himself or others. Somehow, other than a loader severely injured by a prop, he hasn't killed himself or others. I returned as safety officer after that, but just couldn't stay. It was a situation I just had to walk away from. His younger brothers were two of the safest pilots I ever trained. Administrative power can drive very dangerous attitudes and standards. Civilians do not have the same checks on this as we had in the military.
On my first instrument cross-country in a PA-28-161 after getting my rating I popped out of some building cumulus and found myself staring straight at an unforecast purple-black wall of weather across my route that was CLEARLY convective. Having no weather avoidance gear, I immediately advised Center I needed to divert and rolled into a turn toward the nearest airport with an approach that was well above minimums (in fact, it turned out to be pretty good VFR). My airplane sat on the wrong side of Lake Michigan for a week, it cost us over $1000 in airline tickets to get home, and I had to fly back with a buddy the following weekend to pick up my airplane. That was 30+ years ago, and I STILL know that I made the right choice. In the northern Midwest even the Part 121 major airlines sometimes cancel dozens or even hundreds of flights due to winter storm conditions. I don't know what this guy was thinking.
As harsh as this sounds that attitude is why you're here telling us your story while we are all here listening to someone else tell his story. Glad you made the right choice!
A harsh response is that pilot wasn't thinking. You were. A pilot must look at the available data and make decisions based on facts known and possibilities unknown at the time. You made the right choice. Your survival proves it. The other guy made a horrible choice. I too have looked at the weather and said maybe I can just pop through this and get home. Then I remember what a guy I worked for when a teen told me. He was an Army Air Corp combat pilot with 10's of thousands of hours who said, gethomeitis kills many. Staying on the ground for better conditions doesn't.
Man, back when I used to fly planes, something similar happened to me where I killed ten people. I was one of the lucky ones to make it. Or ONLY lucky one, I should say. I wasn't rated for the particular aircraft I was piloting. It was a twin engine and I was only qualified for a single. Not that big of a deal. The main problem was I couldn't find our destination AND I didn't have enough fuel, only a quarter of the amount we needed. Surprised we made it as far as we did. Make sure you gas up before depart. There aren't gas stations up in the clouds, lol.
I'm an A&P mechanic with pilot training, You produce a really great summary of safety and dissection of accidents and incidents. I've been in several emergency situations during test flights after shoddy maintenance. Glad I'm glad I'm still here. I'm SURE you have already saved lives with viewers. Let's keep the 121.5 beepers to a minimum! Cheers!
Perhaps the newspapers were trying to be sensitive to a grieving family, but of course the icing isn’t going to bring down a planeful of peopleif they didn’t take off in the first place.
Your presentations are spot on. I was an Airforce mechanic on the B-52 bomber in 70's and we were drilled to learn accidents dont happen , they are created. Every thing we did on the aircraft was documented and checked and rechecked for completion. I find it hard to believe that he flew in that weather under those conditions. If you cant drive in it, why would you fly!!!!!!
I needed this video. I just started a flying gig in the PC-12 that will have me in SD working between Rapid City and Sioux Falls all this winter. I’m experienced but mostly in fair weather and still relatively new to the Pilatus. This video is going into my hip pocket. Key takeaways: -Get-home-itis kills -if u can’t clear the T-tail, you aren’t de-iced -Know ur pusher parameters -Weight and balance limits exist for a reason -Never yank on rotation -And once again, get-home-itis kills. Thank you for this video. Rest in peace to all those killed in this tragedy. Safe flights to all this winter and remember, there are no flight emergencies at groundspeed zero.
This, by far, was the most harrowing debrief I’ve seen. The pilot’s actions go beyond negligence and complacency. There is something almost narcissistic, and possibly borderline sociopathic in his cavalier disregard of his passenger’s safety. I doubt a major airport would have even remained open in such conditions.
Sadly, part of the issue is that having lots of money doesn't do a single thing to improve your judgement and reasoning ability in situations like this. I believe it actually has a detrimental impact on those specific faculties. Some deeper human mental issue often makes the rich feel they are superior and impervious to the basic physical laws of the universe that us mere mortals are subject to. There are nearly unlimited examples of rich guys killing themselves and others in airplanes because they think that buying the fanciest airplane is a substitute for experience and good judgement. I mean, after all, if they have proven their ability to succeed in the financial world while so many others fail why wouldn't they automatically be superior in the other endeavors of life? Aviation isn't the only discipline that proves them wrong but it's usually the best and fastest way to disprove their erroneous belief.
How does one become so arrogant that looking at their family members , especially those trusting little ones, and decide it’s worth The risk !I can’t fathom it 🙏
Thank you, Hoover, another excellent analysis. I really hope your recommendations prevent further such tragedies. You are doing an amazing service towards flight safety.
@@stellviahohenheimespecially people who get rich running a for-profit healthcare company. How many people does the company deny healthcare to so he gets a private plane?
His sheer arrogance! A good ole huntin' boy ("English proficient" no less), whose contempt for the airport manager and others was stunning. "...ln my pickup l coulda had it done in like thirty minutes". ETA, l neglected to add his final insult: "I'll be good... if he gave us a decent place to turn around down here." Yeah, the figurative stare or middle finger, at everyone else whose fault it was, but his own entitled self. Unbelievable.
Very sad for the families involved, 121 pilot for 37 years and this was a very well done analysis. Don’t ever feel that you need to go unless just about everything is perfect and in your favor, it’s not worth it. 18:14
As a passenger, you're the last check on your safety. We, as federal agents, were in Grand Cayman on an enforcement operation one time, and a government airplane, a Queen Air, was sent to get us when it was over. With all the passengers and cargo, we were so close to maximum gross take off weight that the pilots were planning on carrying minimum fuel, and refueling at Guantanamo Naval Base, and then Key West, and then Tampa, on our way back to New Orleans. The pilots debated this for thirty minutes with their calculators out and pencils and paper. I was getting uneasy and my partner Jeff said, "I'm going over to American Airlines and seeing if they have a flight we can get on." He came back fifteen minutes later and said they did. We walked over and told the pilots they could drop 400 pounds because we were going commercial. Both flights made it, and we caught hell from the fiscal office for taking a commercial flight after they had sent a government plane to pick us up, but I still am proud of myself for making that decision.
Mormons aren't big believers in reality. I grew up in the church. There's all these healing by prayer and surviving deadly circumstances by prayer stories due to prayer. You are constantly conditioned that all you have to do to overcome any obstacle is pray
@@hoppes9658 And that band RS has been around a long time. ~60 years? I wouldn’t even want to go hunting in that blowing snow weather, much less fly in a plane.
The stress of reporting on these tragedies week after week must take its toll on you, Hoover. Thank you for what you do, but please take good care of yourself, especially emotionally speaking. Respect! 🖖
I’m not a pilot and a bit of a nervous flyer but your debriefs make me feel a lot more comfortable with flying from having a better understanding. This one is just crazy, they had no Swiss cheese to start with .
Horrible. I can’t even wrap my head around how many people were affected by this accident. Unbelievable. My father was a 727 pilot my entire life. He never let any of us fly with him in the small planes. I never understood why. Until he passed. This was his nightmare. Sending love and support to all those people who lost their loved ones. 💙🙏🏽💙 Definitely could have been avoided, smh.
727s were the best planes. I used to be a FedEx ramp agent and loaded and did the weight and balance on 727-200s. I got to fly up front with the crew a few times, before that privilege was taken away from us all. Great planes, great pilots.
@@mr.c5217 Well, the 2nd time they took it away, it was due to 9/11. The first time we lost the privilege, it was because that Auburn Calloway (a FedEx pilot that they were going to fire) jump seated on flight 705 and tried to hijack it. He intended to take it over and crash it. Fortunately, after that died down, they let us jump seat again.
Tragic. I'm glad you included the information on the people killed in the crash. It serves to drive home the point that if a pilot is willing to risk his/her own life, then that does not me that friends and family should be subject to the same risk.
I’m thinking about that kid from the Titan submarine that didn’t want to go, but his father convinced him it was going to be fine. Maybe the little kids didn’t understand the risk, but imagine the terror if they did. Hope this is understood by other pilots with the temptation to show off to their families. A father’s job is to protect his family, and this guy’s arrogance is now his legacy.
No problem, in response to your thanks, for your support. It's very much appreciated that you create these videos and narrate your knowledge about every plane crash.
This is a family of entrepreneurs. I'd assume that their prevailing mindset is: we can get it done, no matter what. Unfortunately, physics and nature don't really care about that.
What went wrong? Overweight, out of CG limits, aircraft covered in snow and ice, a home remedy de ice that was only partially complete, and took off into a snow storm. This guys ADM is a poster child for the kind of pilot you don’t want to know.
I will say his home remedy de-ice isn't the worst I've seen. My cousins husband used vodka to clear ice off his plane once. He was used to flying in a warm climate and was caught completely off guard by the ice. He did successfully make it home so it must have worked but I'm glad I wasn't with him on that flight. At least isopropyl alcohol is much closer to what the airport uses.
@@Nilboggen I’m amazed he didn’t have a fire ignited by the alcohol hitting an electrical connection. Actually, a fire might have saved their lives. Vodka, should only be used for drinking. Hope it wasn’t expensive stuff.
Thank you for yet another honest, respectful analysis of how a pilot went wrong. We have all made mistakes, but you're literally helping people not make the same mistake.
As perhaps the saddest part of this story and others like it (John Kennedy, Jr.), these folks were not poor. They had the resources to utilize other options to get some of the family members back home presuming they had obligations that necessitating their return. Why travel in bad weather when you can just wait a day or two, or if necessary, go home by some other travel means and come back another day for the plane.
@@jasonmarks1636 Sadly, you are more than correct. 75 years on this planet, 50 dealing with people has certainly proved that. And, Jason, I have some stories that are both hilarious and terrible.
Too many millionaires think because they made money that they can do whatever they want whenever they want and common sense doesn't apply to them. I would say this is a tragedy but none of these people seemed like decent people!
I have never donated to your channel, Hoover, and I’m not a patreon. But here’s my first for all the debriefs you’ve done. I’m not a pilot, but I take a lot from the debriefs. Thank you.
Any pilot's mindset needs to change from "...need to get home today" to "...need to get back home." I was never afraid to sit it out, turn around, or deviate. You must respect the atmosphere at any altitude.
@@aodhhanswtor7252 I checked what day it was. It was a Friday. What? So someone had a birthday party or baby shower or wedding the next day? And how did any of that justify the risk?
Thank you for the debrief of this accident. The initial NTSB investigation back in Dec 2019 was very sparse and lacking in detail. This very detailed review finally gives us very important info missing for all these years.
I'm shocked to the core that any pilot would consider making a flight in those conditions & especially when they have so many family members on board! 😡
Man, back when I used to fly planes, something similar happened to me where I killed ten people. I was one of the lucky ones to make it. Or ONLY lucky one, I should say. I wasn't rated for the particular aircraft I was piloting. It was a twin engine and I was only qualified for a single. Not that big of a deal. The main problem was I couldn't find our destination AND I didn't have enough fuel, only a quarter of the amount we needed. Surprised we made it as far as we did. Make sure you gas up before depart. There aren't gas stations up in the clouds, lol.
I think this is the most mind boggling pilot debrief yet. I just can't wrap my head around that image of the plane taking off in those conditions with your whole extended family on board.
I just wanted to tell you that I really enjoy your debriefs. You stay to the facts and make it easy for other pilots to learn from your debrief. Thank you.
I will just never understand this type of behaviour, especially from a pilot, more especially when other people's lives are at stake and shockingly when children's lives are at stake. This is just so disgusting on so many levels. It almost makes you think his checklist was nothing but a list of risks and he was determined to take every risk possible in that situation.
His lack on the minimum equipment list was *common sense*. Very sad for them - it must have been a mercy that they never saw it coming. One minute flying, the next minute -- well, that's that.
Hoover, I really enjoy your channel and appreciate the time you take to cover all aspects of flying mishaps. I spent 22yrs. in the AF as a fighter maintenance officer (F-15/16 and A- 10) attended the AF accident and engine training courses. I was fortunate enough to get and keep my altitude card which meant I would cover a lot of boards. I was stationed in Germany at Bitburg/Spang, Ramstein AB on staff. I was selling nachos at Flugtag when the Italian Demo team crashed into the crowds. Finally, my A-card put me in the backseat of an F-15 "tub" to do site surveys for additional forces coming over for the Shield/Storm. Lots of stories, most are true, great friends always.
@@mowtivatedmechanic1172 Sorry about that. An altitude card means I have been trained to experience the effects physically and mentally of exceeding 18K feet. With the card, the pilot is free to operate at altitudes suitable to the aircraft and his/her training. Airlines usually pressurize to 8K while climbing to higher altitudes.
@@Mcgregor854 oh ok. We call it the “high altitude” certification. Usually post IFR certification and collocated with some sort of type rating but not always. Thanks for the brief
I’m not a pilot and know nothing about flying, but the two things I’ve learned from watching your videos is over confidence and complacency will get you and others killed real quick.
Man, back when I used to fly planes, something similar happened to me where I killed ten people. I was one of the lucky ones to make it. Or ONLY lucky one, I should say. I wasn't rated for the particular aircraft I was piloting. It was a twin engine and I was only qualified for a single. Not that big of a deal. The main problem was I couldn't find our destination AND I didn't have enough fuel, only a quarter of the amount we needed. Surprised we made it as far as we did. Make sure you gas up before depart. There aren't gas stations up in the clouds, lol.
Kirk's EGO killed everyone on board. That is the biggest lesson here! "Check (meaning stop!) your EGO" should be part of everyone's pre-flight checklist. A BIG EGO kills scores of pilots annually!
Oh my God, i can't imagine what this Kirt guy could have been thinking. His hubris killed these people. As a passenger, its hard to believe any of the adults didnt get the hebeegeebes about flying in this weather and stay at the lodge another night. Totally inexcusable on Kirks part. This one really made me angry😡 My heart hurts for the families of these 4 generations especially the children 😢
Well, and a few misgivings- not to say- heeby jeebies about overloading the plane and two passengers with no seats or seatbelts-- that’s enough right there for a solid ‘No’ as a passenger
@@BamaCyn My friend I think 🤔 you like many others misunderstood the cause of the accident. It certainly wasn't the weather that caused the accident It was the fact that the pilot rotated 4 kts too early and then maintained an AOA much higher than a normal departure. These two items led to an aerodynamic stall and thus it wasn't the weather that caused this accident. In addition if the pilot had completed a center of gravity calculation he would have realized that the aft CG condition would cause the aircraft to pitch up after takeoff, again this is a non-weather related accident.
As a mother in this type of situation, I would never have taken my child and left the lodge for this flight. Unbelievable that a mother would walk/carry their child out in that kind of storm for a flight.
@@christophergagliano2051 I don't disagree with you as I can barely fly a paper airplane 🤣 but it seems to me with the accumulation of ice/snow on tail area they couldn't reach, over loaded plane, weather and runway conditions airport warned Kirt about, the rotation errors was the last of the holes in the Swiss cheese. Thank you for responding 🥰
Thank u for these videos. I have been watching them and it made me take my first discovery flight here in NC. You videos on flight safety and how to properly handle situations helped me over come my fear and finally take a step. You prob won’t see this but thank u so much
Excellent breakdown of a tragic story…as a life long pilot it makes me shudder to think of mistakes made …. Aviation is so unforgiving. We’ve all made mistakes but losing your family. It’s just the most painful.
Check out these other videos involving PC-12 plane crashes:
👉 ua-cam.com/video/P0llpl-V32U/v-deo.html
👉 ua-cam.com/video/pkH6kecIeBg/v-deo.html
Thank you for all you do for the Aviation Community!! You're making a difference 💯
Eram caçadores mataram muitos animais indefesos pelo prazer de matar um dia o retorno bate a porta não importa se é um rico executivo bem sucedido ou um pobre a conta chega.
Please do the former president’s charter aircraft restricted airspace incursion.
Also each married pilot should know that wives would rather have you home safe, late for dinner but alive. I think the pilots forget this.
Who has the authority to shut the airport down?
Living in and flying in Alaska, AND being a mortician, I learned how easy it is to “do nothing” as in don’t fly if something isn’t right or doesn’t feel right. Sit in the lodge, drink coffee, have a beer, tell stories, wait til tomorrow, drive instead, make two trips.
It’s so easy when you’ve handled a few dead pilots and passengers.
Wow!😮😮 tough job, wishing you wellness from South Africa.
Such an important lesson to learn. It isn't worth taking chances. Getting home late, missing a meeting, or something else is much better than never getting home at all. Some pilots seriously need to reconsider their priorities.
That's exactly what credit cards are for use them get a hotel room or book another night at the lodge wherever whatever whatever stop killing people
The trauma is REAL😓
Experience brings respect for “gut feelings.”
Imagine spending 3 hours attempting to de-ice a plane, not effectively or completely, and deciding to fly anyway, in a snow storm, with your family. That's well beyond stupid.
Thanks for calling it like it is ! Sad , but true . O well -
With not just one, but at least two different people chiming in to say hey man, this isn't a good idea.... You sure....
He literally said “the remaining ice would come off during takeoff” I’ve never had my jaw drop more during one of these
It is no wonder they crashed!
I agree, as it would be one thing to do it by yourself, say on a rescue mission like the famous flight to get needed medical supplies to your destination. But to endanger all your family members in those conditions is insane and tragic.
I’m a retired freight dog here and have lots of experience operating in areas much like this. If you can’t de ice the plane and keep it off, don’t go. One carrier I worked for basically said in its procedures manual that if there is freezing rain, just go home. Your video is spot on. You nailed it buddy.
@@donalddepew9605 You do realize that the NTSB report said nothing about ice causing the accident or contributing to the accident. It was bad piloting technique, pure and simple incompetence.
@@christophergagliano2051 It doesn't matter. Those conditions were horrendous. It's just a coincidence that the pilot also wrecked the plane due to over rotation and over loading. He might have crashed anyway without those factors due to the weather.
@@stopthephilosophicalzombie9017 I suspect the pilot got a full weather briefing so he knew where the tops of the overcast / snow clouds we're at. And if you look at the weather map that was presented during the video the weather at the crash site wasn't that bad compared to what was to the east. I don't think being a hundred pounds overweight contributed to the accident but for sure an AFT CG condition makes for a very difficult departure. This can be seen in the video right after takeoff the nose pitches up like 7° above normal AOA, That along with the AFT CG sealed their fate 😔
@@christophergagliano2051AGAIN, Sorry but I disagree with a "too-quick to close down" rush to conclusions by a possibly overworked present day NTSB... not really on Commercial aviation, but too frequently seen when the agency treats a large bunch of "just GA amateurs" accidents...
Ice on the horizontal tail, especially on a "T-tail" plane prone to go into a "Super-Stall" condition can have a LARGER effect than on conventional tail aircraft... Second, the ice accreted on the elevator can alter the Mass-Balance of the control surface, that very well could alter the feedback "feel" of the pitch control or cause Elevator Flutter (a kind of "Aeroelastic phenomena"), enough to start the otherwise improbable "PIO" (Pilot Induced Oscillation) that seems to me to be improbable for a pilot with so many hours on this model. I am not trying to justify the pilot behavior during Rotation, Take-Off and initial Climb; but it just seems to me that just fully EXCLUDING Ice from considering it a possible Contributting Factor is just too quick and dirty way of putting this accident aside to continue with the growing of pile of pending cases waiting on the desks...
With the rate of precipitation as seen in the video, and not having had 100% deicing with heated glycol along with no concern the horizontal stab because he couldn't reach it .Unbelievable !
I always used the approach that if I had to think whether or not I should fly, I didn't.
If you have to ask, you probably shouldn't, is a good saying.
Same
Man, back when I used to fly planes, something similar happened to me where I killed ten people. I was one of the lucky ones to make it. Or ONLY lucky one, I should say. I wasn't rated for the particular aircraft I was piloting. It was a twin engine and I was only qualified for a single. Not that big of a deal. The main problem was I couldn't find our destination AND I didn't have enough fuel, only a quarter of the amount we needed. Surprised we made it as far as we did. Make sure you gas up before depart. There aren't gas stations up in the clouds, lol.
Exactly. A yes is a yes, a no is a no and a maybe is a no. Simple rule
This is the kind of weather I wouldn't want to drive in, much less fly. Insane.
I had the same thought. I live in Northern Michigan and wouldn’t want to be driving until those conditions dissipated.
yes, great weather to stay another day in a nice warm lodge..
really it is just not good to be out in period! people try anyway in winter all over the country - and recently now the southern states are having ice and snow every year - and the cars go sliding everywhere (even though drivers are trying to be careful!) winding up in ditches or wherever! however, in an airplane there are no ditches
Kyani a multi level marketing scam. Must be big money in placebo supplements because the entire family lived off that scam supplements company. No wonder kirk was such an arrogant prikkk. He figured if he and family could all live off of a company that was being sued for being a scam, he must have been a superior human being. I guess thats one way to stop a scam artist multi level marketing thief from robbing anyone else. 😅
In the 80’s I lived in South Eastern New England. Worked 42 miles a way just north of Boston, waited too long to leave work during a daytime blizzard, two hours later got in an accident 15 miles from home. Never made that mistake again. I couldn’t imagine risking my family’s lives to fly in that weather. If any family members are reading this, I’m sorry about your massive loss, but I’m sure you know that the pilots really made a bad decision flying an overloaded, poorly de-iced plane in horrific weather.
Started flying 53 years ago. When I started, my senior instructor said just remember:" Many a pilot killed in weather are buried on a sunny day." I kept that in mind throughout my career and it probably saved my butt a few times. Another great analysis! Thanks!!
Hell I don’t like to even drive a car or truck in those conditions and stopping by the hardware store to get some isopropyl alcohol to make ends meet on a schedule just seems asinine.
Dam that's deep😢
True@@bbustin1747
That’s sums it up.
Thank you too!; I’ll remember his quote when losing it during periods of minor everyday aggravations, [e.g. automobile traffic and personal set deadlines for arriving on time] in the future; perhaps may even save my life and that of others; learned so much from this episode, as Hoover so eloquently states numerous times, my deepest sympathies for all involved in this video-the souls of the dearly departed and their remaining loving families will be remembered in the prayers of viewers, because of Pilot Debrief.
The airport manager is an expert on the conditions at that particular airport. If he says “it don’t look good” then you should listen.
Closing the airport temporarily would have been wiser thus preventing such negligent pilots from flying...
I dont think he had the money to pay for another night at the lodge.
@@MA_808 I could be wrong but I'm thinking if you have access to a private plane you can probably afford an additional night.
should have closed the airport !!
@@MA_808
I’m picking up a little sarcasm.
Like Juan brown says “your good sense and your credit card” can save your life.
Korea. Flying a military B-200 that had been outside all weekend along with another B-200. Monday morning found both aircraft covered with about 3” of snow and maintenance working to clear the snow off both aircraft along with using de-ice fluid. They had a man lift to reach the T-tail. Maintenance had the wings all clear and asked me to up on the lift to look at the tail. It was clear of snow and dripping with deice fluid and looked clear. I ran my hand over the surface and felt a very slightly rough surface, but nothing visible. I said it was OK and proceed to taxi and takeoff. Sister aircraft was just behind me. It was VMC and we rotated at normal speed and brought he nose up to the normal pitch attitude of 18-20 degrees and the aircraft and controls began to vibrate. I lowered the nose and quickly gained airspeed, called tower and said I was returning to land. The was some higher terrain on downwind leg that I had to climb above. Every time I raised the nose above 10 degrees, the vibration would start. My sister aircraft took off just a few minutes behind me. I was able to nurse the aircraft around the pattern and as I was turning base I heard my sister aircraft call tower and report that they were returning to land due to a vibration in the aircraft. We both landed safely taxied in, shut down and told maintenance why we returned. I immediately became a believer that no aircraft should attempt to fly with ANY ice on the control surfaces - even if you can’t see it. If you had told me beforehand that the “slightly rough” surface on the T-tail would cause what felt like an impending stall (stall warning never sounded) I would not have believed it. I do now.
His plane was even covered in snow. You are first person i see mention surface. Fuselage is specifically made to be smooth. His plane was literally covered in snow and ice they just seemed to remove bulk of it
Physics is a bitch bro, good to hear she gave you a second chance.
Glad to hear that you guys came back to live another day. Crazy stuff. Ice is no joke and I take it very seriously when flying.
yo thanks for the story bro, my great grandpa was icing those koreans too
I fly helicopters and some of the ones we fly have little placard stickers out near the blade tips (little warning to never pull down on a blade tip during cleaning or inspections). The stickers are maybe the size of a stick of chewing gum. My boss once had one of those stickers start peeling off a blade, and it caused such a severe vibration that they did a precautionary landing. Airfoils are no joke: it does not take a big change in shape or surface texture to cause problems.
If the guy driving the snowplow says you're crazy he ain't just whistling dixie. So sad the pilot thought getting home was more important than protecting his family.
Getting home was more important than staying alive long enough to get home. Crazy.
He was flying Mormons, they prayed about it, and told him he'd be fine!
Well the pilot could have cleared that large runway with a pickup truck and 30 minutes 🤦🏻♂️
The guy plowing the snow is just a blue-collar “no body”. Mr Pilot was richer and smarter, in his mind. He knew better and far more than some lowly employee from a small airport.
@@luv2charlie😂🤣😂
I’m not a pilot and know nothing about flying but the two things I’ve learned from watching your videos is over confidence and complacency will get you and others killed real quick.
When the holes in that cheese start lining up, you're done for!!!
It looks safe but the sky is a 100% hostile environment where human life can't sustain itself. You might as well be 1 mile under the sea, or in outer space. While you can breathe in the sky you can't float by yourself, and you will die 100% of the time you are in the air without the aid of an aeroplane or other floatation device like a parachute.
@davidbruce7806 The honesty is that this holds true for driving a car and especially on a motorcycle and piloting an aircraft.
Situational awareness is what keeps you safe, no matter what mode of travel you use...I fly planes and I've ridden over 180,000 kilometres on motorcycles in the last 10 years
@@ozpilotgirl This is true, safe travels.
Man, back when I used to fly planes, something similar happened to me where I killed ten people. I was one of the lucky ones to make it. Or ONLY lucky one, I should say. I wasn't rated for the particular aircraft I was piloting. It was a twin engine and I was only qualified for a single. Not that big of a deal. The main problem was I couldn't find our destination AND I didn't have enough fuel, only a quarter of the amount we needed. Surprised we made it as far as we did. Make sure you gas up before depart. There aren't gas stations up in the clouds, lol.
I apologize to the family for what I’m about to say. I was a helicopter maintenance test pilot in the Army, 32 years. I literally had to cancel a mission in Afghanistan once, where people’s lives were in the balance, due to icing on our helicopters that we couldn’t remove. It is absolutely ridiculous and tragic that this pilot made this decision. Terrible judgment.
Don't apologize, they're Mormons
That says it all right there! If you canceled a military mission due to conditions, then a return flight from a hunting trip can be canceled. Rifles, ammo & meat would've been even more weight too.
Thank you for your service and sacrifice for our freedom..!! So greatly appreciated..!! 🇺🇸💯🪖🫡♥️
I respect that level of integrity a great deal. Thank you for your service.
If you have to apologize maybe don't say anything Gomer
As a 25 year bush pilot from years past, I've encountered "get home itis" in many fashions and have unfortunately recognized this situation with others. Thank you for bringing it to light and my condolences for the family involved. Your videos are a great instruction to those in the industry.
Sadly, the men in charge (able to know better) had NO consideration for the children. Had any Mom been there to witness the conditions, their children would've been pulled, guaranteed.
@@FreeRadicals305 I don't think he had no consideration for his children. I think he fell into an unfortunately common mental trap. He'd probably been in a situation where he'd pushed snow off the wings before and nothing had happened. He normalized it as a nothingburger - been there, done that. But this time he had a full load of people, and not even enough seats to hold them. Unless you're willing to say that he intentionally committed suicide with all those people on board, then you're left with the fact that he did what lots of dead people have done: rationalized that it was gonna be fine. That said, I don't think that he was a safety-conscious pilot, and it's that fact, that lack of an iron-clad commitment to safety that got everyone killed.
@@woofna1948 The 'dads', that's who should've protected their children. They didn't : (
As the old saying goes, it's better to be on the ground wishing you were flying than be flying and praying to be back on the ground. The actions of that pilot are beyond belief.
Now that's a good saying, and so true!
Flying doesn't forgive hubris.
That’s a good one
Thats a good one..Mine was Live to fly another day..
Pilots initiated that saying........
The type of vid format is where you really shine Hoover. Your prep work and tight practiced delivery makes the drama and lessons come through loud and clear.
I have not found any other person who can analyze, explain, and organize a video any better than Hoover!!!! As a pilot, I always understand what happened and feel like his consideration for the 'victims' is fair and compassionate.
He watches other videos if you call that hard work
@markadams7328 plenty of others....mentour comes to mind right off
@@markadams7328 Hoover and Blancolirio are the two best. Complete objective breakdowns of the incident. Always obviously pained by the result but their videos are saving lives, I'm sure. Good reminders of how not to behave. Always check your level of bias, from preplanning to parked and tied down.
@@donaldsalkovick396 Who peed in your Cherrios this morning? I'm pretty sure it wasn't Hoover. Your comment says more about you than him.
Where is your channel with 629,000 subscribers, and 100's of videos that serve to help pilots recognize serious issues and how to prevent repeating them- thus saving lives? And what's wrong with that again? This man served our country in the military flying planes for years, but you disrespect him? You're out of line.
And you don't have a clue about researching sources and making these videos.
So far the score is: Hoover 629,000 and climbing, Donald Duck 0. Jealousy is an ugly look, DonnieBoy.
I will never understand this type of apparent disregard for safety, especially when multiple lives are involved. I simply do not understand this mindset.
It’s incredibly shocking, right?!?
@@pilot-debrief It certainly is to me. Just unbelievable!
They are pilots, they are gods
Can we please get pilots out of aircraft yet?
Look up the Dunning-Kruger effect. It will help explain it. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning-Kruger_effect
Thank you. You pass on vital lessons in an utmost respectful way. The 4 generations part really hurts. What you share helps it to not be in vain.
-Peace&Blessings
I'm a former 121 pilot (A330, B737) and now Part 91 (Pilatus PC-24). The pilot's niece - and her husband - are family friends. I've never spoken to them in depth about this accident because I don't want to dig up old memories and bring back the hurt that comes with it. But knowing what I know, the pilot was unbelievably stupid at best - and criminally negligent at worst. If he had survived, he should have been charged as such. This was a classic example of an accident that was totally avoidable and didn't need to happen.
Sadly, part of the issue is that having lots of money doesn't do a single thing to improve your judgement and reasoning ability in situations like this. I believe it actually has a detrimental impact on those specific faculties. Some deeper human mental issue often makes the rich feel they are superior and impervious to the basic physical laws of the universe that us mere mortals are subject to. There are nearly unlimited examples of rich guys killing themselves and others in airplanes because they think that buying the fanciest airplane is a substitute for experience and good judgement. I mean, after all, if they have proven their ability to succeed in the financial world while so many others fail why wouldn't they automatically be superior in the other endeavors of life? Aviation isn't the only discipline that proves them wrong but it's usually the best and fastest way to disprove their erroneous belief.
@@kmalerich you nailed it. Sure, there are always exceptions, but I've seen a few too many examples of successful entrepreneurs with a passion for aviation, minimal experience in said pursuit of aviation activities - and huge wallets to go out and buy more airplane than they can handle. This is why I have a blanket rule to never fly with an owner pilot. There can only ever be one Pilot in Command - and I'm not interested in putting myself in a situation where I make a command decision based on decades of professional experience, only to be countered by the other guy arguing that it's "my airplane, my rules." That would not end well for either of us. Granted, this guy had a couple thousand hours - but no commercial/ATP level qualifications, just a PPL and a PPL attitude to go with it. Actually, that is unfair to many conscientious and capable PPL holders. No, this guy was stupid, arrogant and criminally negligent.
Agree. I just read the actual final report. Seems he had a few bad habits, that didn't seem to bite him, until they did. Unfortunately he took many with him.
Scary part is there is a lot of this going on. I have watched dozens of videos, read a number of detailed reports, and it happens EVERY year. Year in year out.
Sorry Sir. I will be thought of as a bad guy. But passengers pressing the pilot to get home are LESS sympathetic, their deaths LESS TRAGIC than would be the deaths of innocent people, for example, in a commercial flight context, where the passengers have nearly zero input.
Here, all passengers other than the five-year-old earned their Darwin Awards.
@@davidowen9671 I am not a pilot. Actually never flown in anything other than commerical.
That said, the pilot is the flight CEO and all decisions rest with him. I may have missed where these passengers were 'pressing him' but if you have final responsibilty, you ignore the pleadings of others because YOU are the captain and decisions rest with you.
I can't imagine what that family has been through since this tragedy.
I was a Flight Paramedic for 9 years, 84 to 93 in Colorado, flying UH-1V's. We had numerous pilots, and the missions involved were for serious/critical patients which was a stressor to press the completion of a flight. However, the entire crew's opinion was always considered and that was a big influence in go/no goes. I trusted them and they kept me safe, thanks guys.
This right here: the "Yes/Not Yes" way of thinking. Consider the input from multiple people, wx, aircraft, airport & other conditions, capabilities and limitations, sum it all up and then decide: "Does all this, taken together, add up to exceed my threshold to decide "Yes"? If not, then it's "Not Yes". Then you can start talking to your and other people's emotional not-so-smart brain processing self that believes in magic and "wishing makes it so" and say emotional things to it like "I'm sorry we're not going now, yes, it sucks. But the highly educated 'adults in the room' considered everything and came to the conclusion it's too dangerous to go, so we're not going. That's the final decision. Accept it. Cry, whine, roll on the floor, threaten punishment or retaliation or whatever, but the decision isn't changing. Let it go, and move on. Perhaps you'll be in an uncomfortable emotional state for a while, but you'll be alive."
If your pilot was "stressed to complete a flight" due to the criticality of the patient, he needs to find another field of employment. I've been flying EMS as a PILOT for over 30 years, and (rightfully so) the patient's condition is never a concern to me.
Man, back when I used to fly planes, something similar happened to me where I killed ten people. I was one of the lucky ones to make it. Or ONLY lucky one, I should say. I wasn't rated for the particular aircraft I was piloting. It was a twin engine and I was only qualified for a single. Not that big of a deal. The main problem was I couldn't find our destination AND I didn't have enough fuel, only a quarter of the amount we needed. Surprised we made it as far as we did. Make sure you gas up before depart. There aren't gas stations up in the clouds, lol.
@@beckydoesit9331that some dark humour 😳😳😳
I grew up in avaition, and I saw multiple examples of this "fly or be damned" attitude. As my dad's flying friends bought the farm one by one, it finally became apparent that being a casual, once-in-a-while flyer was the most dangerous pilot you could be.
With 2500h, Kirk wasn't on eof those "once-in-a-while" flyers IMO. He had quite some experience. But I agree with you in general. Many accident videos of rich people buying aircraft and barely flying them.
@@Wolfhound_81but he was a bit rusty since his log book's last recorded flight was exactly one year prior to the crash. A bit risky imoo to fly 11 members of your family in a plane without enough seating for everyone in those weather conditions when it had been a year since your last flight.
@@EA-vd4gd Final report notes, he had few questionable 'techniques', and they finally caught up with him. Tendency to rotate early, under speed and abruptly.
In this case with the misloaded plane, too much weight and not balance
This is exactly why I decided to NOT get my PPL. I know I would fly a few times a year and I would be a danger to anyone in my airplane.
@@codyrunsfast1 Same here. I stick to Microsoft Flight Simulator and DCS.
Those videos are so well-done and complete, and respectful. They might actually save lives for real.
As a sailor, I was taught that "get-there-itis" kills.
The other thing I learned was that as the skipper, I was responsible for the safety of my passengers and that was my highest priority.
This is a family of entrepreneurs. I'd assume that their prevailing mindset is: we can get it done, no matter what. Unfortunately, physics and nature don't really care about that.
Men to that....wether air sea or land.... in weather like that stay home...dely your flight... I dont care how good you think you are you can't handle that amount of workload and fly... I e even a tiny amount. An ruin your day.. so an a bad weight and balance calculation.... sad they went that way but hey play stupid games win stupid prizes... no disrespect but I don't know why people don't know when they should /shouldn't fly.... sometimes you can take-off anthill end up in trouble.... let alone taking off in a dead set snow storm no deicing and not be coherent enough to realise hey shitty day stay in....I mean how bad does the weather have to be b4 you say nope.... I think the airport Mr should have refused to allow him to fly personally. But you can't lead a horse to water....I guess
The conceit is that technology overcomes reality.
Two hundred years ago, a traveler accepted a delay because they knew they couldn't defy the reality of the storm...
...but today? Need I remind you the phrase "We could put a man on the Moon, but we can't get there because of a few snowflakes?"
These days we depend on metal and silicon to overpower the world's problems. Instead of _common sense._
There's a gale flag up. It's not a hurricane flag. My Hobie can handle it! Let's all 10 sail to the Island now. Makes a out the same sense.
Thank you.
I wouldn't have driven a car in those conditions. That pilot was insane.
Well planes done use roads other than take off or landing
You miss the point.."CONDITIONS".
He is an idiot@@joycedudzinski9415
You must not live in the snow belt. You don't generally have a choice, you can't just miss work three days at a time every couple weeks all winter because it's snowing. But with a car you can get snow tires, drive slow, as long as it's not glare ice you will probably get there okay, and generally the worst that will happen is you will get stuck, maybe bump a guardrail (although the morons who think their Audi SUV is fine to cruise at 70 in the snow with no visibility just because it's going along fine in a straight line are a worry, especially in two lane roads). I would almost say it's safer in a storm because so many people do stay home and most of them are going much slower than usual). But yes, no need to drive unless you have to, and I definitely wouldn't fly.
@@donaldsalkovick396okay fine, but planes need to use the short bits of road they do use at like 150mph without snow tires. They need to land and stop from those speeds. If someone told you you had to drive in a storm but first you had to accelerate your car up to 150mph and then stop it again within two miles on the snow, it might make a difference to your planning. Especially if your car had a known tendency to lose control completely if any snow or ice built up on it and it was built like a tin foil box filled with 250 gallons of flammable fuel ready to ignite the moment the car went off the road and completely came to pieces. Cars aren't planes
Hoover, I'm not a pilot but this is an eye opener! if I ever happen to be in a situation like this as a passenger, it's a hard no for me. Thanks for the great debrief!
You’re most welcome!
@@pilot-debriefI agree. I've felt a lot more confident in saying no as a potential passenger after watching his channel for a while.
Who in the right mind would climb in and go,??
@@edmoore3910an arrogant person.
@@edmoore3910foolish adults, and children who are too young to understand the danger 😢
I really appreciate your commentaries. Very respectful, factual, educational, and generally informative. Thanks for all that you put into these analyses.
This one really blows my mind. Risking your life to do something this dumb is one thing, but risking your whole family, including a child, to do this is just mind blowing.
it goes to show people are the only species that is devolving back into primates.
As in: we are deliberately being dumbed down and it shows almost everywhere.
Agreed, this is something the survivors don’t emotionally recover from. They had a 5 year old with them the pilot should have prioritized safety over anything else that is precious cargo, he will never get to redo that choice. Adults know when they are doing something risky those kids had no concept of the reality that this plane was very likely to crash in this situation.
Totally reckless. 2 generations risking their grandchildren’s lives.
Happy to see you back with your old format. Much preferable to the live chat one. Thank you for this great channel. One of the best for aviation safety.
I, agree too, with this format.
Live streaming takes some getting used to, but it is a lot more profitable for content creators. Did you donate after watching this?
Definitely!
Not enough seats so sitting on the floor??!! Holy ----!!!!
When I was a kid we did this( sitting on the floor) in a friends airplane when your a kid or not a pilot you don’t have any clue.
In fact a lot of things I did with instructors or friends in airplanes along the way , before I was a pilot myself I personally wouldn’t do today. Most of those pilots are very high time today and a considerably MORE daring today then they were then. All are known as VERY GOOD pilots in their respective communities. And unless it bites one of them will always be known as such.
Its crazy. You shouldn't be sitting on the floor in a car, let alone an aircraft.
That part shocked me 😮too
The arrogance displayed here is staggering. Some would call this Darwinian.
Which means it came in overloaded, too.
Thank you for the respectful debrief , another great lesson. Condolences to the family.
My dad taught me when I was young, that "a nose heavy aircraft is hard to fly,
but a tail heavy aircraft FLIES ONCE"!,
and sometimes "you have to push the stick forward when you're looking at the ground".
Dad said that "you have to learn one thing to be a good pilot", and as he put our Cessna into an intentional power on stall he said, "HOW NOT TO THROW UP".
I miss him.
RIP to the souls on board, and it's a miracle anyone survived.
Your dad sounds like an exceptional man.
Very nice
Sounds like you had a great childhood. Miss my pops too..
No one survived.
It is very counterintuitive to push the stick forward when you're turning onto final at 200ft AGL and entering a stall while descending in a turn. And you can't roll out of your bank until you do. Most people in that situation try to level out first which instantly precipitates a spin. And then they're dead. All it takes to be safe is the right knowledge and Kirk had none of it. As an A&P, I know better than to even attempt that takeoff in the first place, which makes me think if you're going to be flying an aircraft this complex, with this many passengers, maybe a pilot's license just isn't enough. Maybe it is just time to require certification to Part 135 standards for people privately flying what amounts to a small commuter airliner. This plane had all the complexity of a turboprop airliner. The plane type is often used in that role in remote parts of the world.
Somewhere along the way, Kirk missed out on some of the most important lessons he needed to learn and it is because private pilot licensing is incredibly lax when it comes to complex aircraft.
Very sad, especially for those little boys who will never get to grow up and experience all that life has to offer. Heartbreaking.
That’s not the sad part.
The sad part is their billion-year long genetic line is ended. Experiences are fleeting, but your line is forever
@@ChadDidNothingWrongno Mr do nothing. No one cares about something a billion years ago, especially when the Earth is only just over 6,000 years old. The true tragedy is the people who lost their lives right now in this time this era!!!
@@ChadDidNothingWrongThis has to be the oddest comment I’ve ever read.
They're related to the pilot the dna won't be that different
@@ChadDidNothingWrong Their line is not ended, there are women still alive and 2 survived. Also, your genetic line is not forever lol.
This has to be one of the most frustrating cases you have covered. Arrogance and impatience got him and his family members killed.
Arrogance and ego
I'm a long-time pilot, who's owned two different aircraft over the years. I've seen lots of UA-cam aviation folks and some of those are very good...but I have to say, you have the BEST incident reviews. Your style is respectful, professional, and thorough. Well done, sir.
As somebody who spent 13 years in Alaska as an A&P, I never saw any pilot try a takeoff with the tail of their aircraft covered in ice and snow, the guy was a complete idiot and had no business with a pilot's license, it's just a shame that other people had to pay the price for his stupidity.
Absolutely---- this was rediculous,
@@martind181968 not to mention ridiculous.
You recommend getting a&p? I started school for it a few weeks ago, but I'm considering dropping it and becoming electrician. Still I'm already in school...
Almost as if they were treating the aircraft as a mere automobile. "A little snow on the bumper? No big deal...."
@@qigongkylar944I been an A&P since 1976 it’s a great carrier , both being an electrician and a A&P are a good choice although my experience is both are dictated by the economy . There is currently a shortage in both fields so I don’t think you will go wrong in either. The one thing I would say is as an A&P you learn electrical, hydraulic, sheet metal , composite and engine systems so even if you don’t stay an A&P you value as a mechanic can get you a job in about any industry.
Had a friend who owns a Cirrus fly me and my girl to Orange Beach a couple years ago .. his only words to me was “ I don’t fly in bad weather “ .. my response to him was “ that’s why I chose you as my pilot “ .
When you have a lot of success in life (enough to afford a multi-million dollar plane in this case), you can start to get over confident about a great many things. Pretty soon, everyone else around you doesn't know what they are talking about and only you see things in a clear light. This can be incredibly dangerous thinking, as this story so aptly demonstrates.
100%
It's "attitude creep"..
Learned behavior..
Forgetting to check "privilege* when it's L&D..💔💔💔
Sounds like you're describing my sister's husband. He's not a pilot, but the rest is 100% him.
reminds me of that fella that sunk that submarine a bit.-
God your comment immediately made me think of Donald Trump and how his arrogant belligerent attitude makes him unfit to lead America as president the same way many pilots get into dangerous situations and should not fly a plane. If I ever got on an aircraft and Donald Trump was sitting in the left seat I would immediately deplane.
And I'll bet he worships Donald Trump.
As a former Air Force Wing Flight Safety Officer, I really appreciate your insight into there incidents. You are always so 'on point' and correct in your analysis.
This accident is so tragic and avoidable. His passengers trusted his failed judgement...so very sad.
I think this is the angriest Hoover has ever sounded on one of these videos, and it's for good reason. This wasn't just a 'misunderstood one thing' or 'had a brief lapse of concentration' type or 'unexpectedly encountered a situation you had little experience with' error, which anyone can have on a bad day. This was just a horrible idea from start to finish.
I have been flying the Pilatus professionally for the past 8 years out of an airport in Pennsylvania and can say that using a broom to clear all of that snow without a ladder to reach the top of the wing was just insane. And did the pilot even consider that the top of the stabilizer, 10 feet above his head, had several inches of snow on it? I have had to make a takeoff with a small amount of snow on my wings as there is no deicing at the uncontrolled field where my plane is based. If it is snowing, we keep the plane in the heated hangar until all checklists are done down to hitting the start button, and the tug us hooked up. We then get pulled out of the hangar, start the engine and takeoff before the snow can accumulate. On takeoff roll, instead of lifting off at the 82 knot speed in the POH, I keep the plane on the ground until it lifts off by itself which tells me it can fly. I then keep the pitch angle very low and build airspeed in level flight before starting to climb. I saw a video of this pilot rotating abruptly and pitching up to a very steep angle which eventually led to a stall which was the reason for the crash. Just unbelievably stupid. Some pilots were born to kill themselves in an airplane and this guy was one of them.
Excellent comment.
@@your_very_best
IKR first thing I thought. Pitched that nose way up once it was in the air. I don’t get it.
I am not a really experienced pilot yet, but one thing i learned from the beginning: get enough airspeed in level flight (even if you are only "a few feet " above the ground) BEFORE you start climbing. I was stunned to see him climbing rapidly and instantly after take-off.
Wise comments from wisdom, experience and knowing your plane and the best conditions for it to fly. I always kept a deck of cards in my flight bag as a reminder that staying on the ground when in doubt is an acceptable option. We can get something good to eat and play cards. A day or two waiting can always mean the difference between life and death. We had a saying that they will bury you on a sunny day. So let’s just wait for the sunny day.
@@UncaDave The problem with your statement is the fact that the crash was NOT caused by the weather.
"My plane is overloaded, off balance and down on lift, so I'm gonna give it a good yank on takeoff." Kirk Hansen was a fool.
Almost as if he thought the power of his arms would add to the lift of the airplane. While also forgetting about the 'balance' part. Just speculating.
@@terjehansen0101 Was hoping for a lift from the hand of god
@@emgriffiths9743 Yeah. To be honest that pullback instict must have been the bane of many pilots. The worst thing to do when the plane is about to stall. I can't fathom how a stick shaker/pusher would cause someone to pull back hard. A few second of bliss and a long dark rest.
@@terjehansen0101 most pilots don't think like engineers. Think of energy like water flowing from the tap.
It has to come from somewhere and if you play with it, you'll not have any water to drink....
@@emgriffiths9743he got HAND OF THE DEVIL WELCOME HIM TO HELL
The descriptions and analysis in your videos are so spot on and so well done.
Years ago, I took a brief flight with my best friend and an acquaintance of his who owned a plane. We were going to get some aerial photos of the land we were going to hunt. My friend has some experience with flying. I could see the concern on his face but I couldn't hear what the two of them were saying into their headsets. After the flight, he told me the pilot had ni idea how much fuel was on board, didn't know how much weight we had, didn't file a flight plan and refused to run the takeoff checklist. We never flew with him again.
hunters are enemies of natutre.
@@jerryeinstandig7996 so is your spelling.
I would ditch that "friend" for not telling you BEFORE the flight that the pilot was incompetent.
I feel for the family but also for the FBO. I worked for and taught three brothers crop dusting. The oldest brother was the boss, and I avoided training him until last because of his attitude. He simply did as he pleased regardless of conditions or safety of himself or others. Somehow, other than a loader severely injured by a prop, he hasn't killed himself or others. I returned as safety officer after that, but just couldn't stay. It was a situation I just had to walk away from. His younger brothers were two of the safest pilots I ever trained. Administrative power can drive very dangerous attitudes and standards. Civilians do not have the same checks on this as we had in the military.
I can’t imagine the airport manager and lodge owner getting the news.
FBO?
@@Capecodham Fixed Base Operator. The guys you check in with for fuel and services, weather reports, etc.
Administrative power can drive very dangerous attitudes and standards.
@@AjF392 thank you, I was like, HUH?
On my first instrument cross-country in a PA-28-161 after getting my rating I popped out of some building cumulus and found myself staring straight at an unforecast purple-black wall of weather across my route that was CLEARLY convective. Having no weather avoidance gear, I immediately advised Center I needed to divert and rolled into a turn toward the nearest airport with an approach that was well above minimums (in fact, it turned out to be pretty good VFR). My airplane sat on the wrong side of Lake Michigan for a week, it cost us over $1000 in airline tickets to get home, and I had to fly back with a buddy the following weekend to pick up my airplane. That was 30+ years ago, and I STILL know that I made the right choice. In the northern Midwest even the Part 121 major airlines sometimes cancel dozens or even hundreds of flights due to winter storm conditions. I don't know what this guy was thinking.
As harsh as this sounds that attitude is why you're here telling us your story while we are all here listening to someone else tell his story. Glad you made the right choice!
A harsh response is that pilot wasn't thinking. You were. A pilot must look at the available data and make decisions based on facts known and possibilities unknown at the time. You made the right choice. Your survival proves it. The other guy made a horrible choice. I too have looked at the weather and said maybe I can just pop through this and get home. Then I remember what a guy I worked for when a teen told me. He was an Army Air Corp combat pilot with 10's of thousands of hours who said, gethomeitis kills many. Staying on the ground for better conditions doesn't.
And that's the reason you are not the subject of one of these debriefs.
Good choice!
Man, back when I used to fly planes, something similar happened to me where I killed ten people. I was one of the lucky ones to make it. Or ONLY lucky one, I should say. I wasn't rated for the particular aircraft I was piloting. It was a twin engine and I was only qualified for a single. Not that big of a deal. The main problem was I couldn't find our destination AND I didn't have enough fuel, only a quarter of the amount we needed. Surprised we made it as far as we did. Make sure you gas up before depart. There aren't gas stations up in the clouds, lol.
I'm an A&P mechanic with pilot training, You produce a really great summary of safety and dissection of accidents and incidents. I've been in several emergency situations during test flights after shoddy maintenance. Glad I'm glad I'm still here. I'm SURE you have already saved lives with viewers. Let's keep the 121.5 beepers to a minimum! Cheers!
Jim was in my graduating class. I thought the family was killed due to icing. Glad I found this update. Thanks.
Perhaps the newspapers were trying to be sensitive to a grieving family, but of course the icing isn’t going to
bring down a planeful of peopleif they didn’t take off in the first place.
Kirk was the Captain, the initiator and instigator of this crash. I’ve never met anyone named Kirk who had a brain
@@steveo3831 🤨Sorry I got most of the brains and this unfortunately left some of the other Kirks with a deficit.
@@steveo3831 Captain Kirk
@@kirkthejerk7258 I had a girlfriend once, with an ex named Kirk, and _that_ is exactly what she always referred to him as!
Your presentations are spot on. I was an Airforce mechanic on the B-52 bomber in 70's and we were drilled to learn accidents dont happen , they are created. Every thing we did on the aircraft was documented and checked and rechecked for completion. I find it hard to believe that he flew in that weather under those conditions. If you cant drive in it, why would you fly!!!!!!
Agreed - There is no such thing as an accident. Everything happens for a reason. This was just plain negligence
My wife constantly reminds me of "precious cargo" whenever we get in the car. It puts your mind in a correct before turning the key.
Mine does too!
Yes, a friend's mom said that to whomever was driving. Back in the '60's. We need more of that simple common sense and awareness.
YES, YES, AND YES!!
I needed this video. I just started a flying gig in the PC-12 that will have me in SD working between Rapid City and Sioux Falls all this winter. I’m experienced but mostly in fair weather and still relatively new to the Pilatus. This video is going into my hip pocket. Key takeaways:
-Get-home-itis kills
-if u can’t clear the T-tail, you aren’t de-iced
-Know ur pusher parameters
-Weight and balance limits exist for a reason
-Never yank on rotation
-And once again, get-home-itis kills.
Thank you for this video.
Rest in peace to all those killed in this tragedy. Safe flights to all this winter and remember, there are no flight emergencies at groundspeed zero.
Wishing you safe flights this winter!
I am grateful to all who take on this exciting yet challenging role. ❤
@@mariella2884thank you
:)
Your passengers will be the lucky ones ❤
@@ntandosekay thank you :)
@@mariella2884 thank you :)
Gosh this is heart wrenching... Thanks so much Hoover, i have no doubt you are saving lives of the folks that chose to watch your videos...
This, by far, was the most harrowing debrief I’ve seen. The pilot’s actions go beyond negligence and complacency. There is something almost narcissistic, and possibly borderline sociopathic in his cavalier disregard of his passenger’s safety.
I doubt a major airport would have even remained open in such conditions.
Agree. He had to be mentally ill.
Sadly, part of the issue is that having lots of money doesn't do a single thing to improve your judgement and reasoning ability in situations like this. I believe it actually has a detrimental impact on those specific faculties. Some deeper human mental issue often makes the rich feel they are superior and impervious to the basic physical laws of the universe that us mere mortals are subject to. There are nearly unlimited examples of rich guys killing themselves and others in airplanes because they think that buying the fanciest airplane is a substitute for experience and good judgement. I mean, after all, if they have proven their ability to succeed in the financial world while so many others fail why wouldn't they automatically be superior in the other endeavors of life? Aviation isn't the only discipline that proves them wrong but it's usually the best and fastest way to disprove their erroneous belief.
Really broke out the buzzwords on this one
How does one become so arrogant that looking at their family members , especially those trusting little ones, and decide it’s worth
The risk !I can’t fathom it 🙏
Thank you, Hoover, another excellent analysis. I really hope your recommendations prevent further such tragedies. You are doing an amazing service towards flight safety.
@5:07 with the exception of skydivers, it is illegal to operate an airplane unless every single person is seated in a seat and is using a seatbelt
Interesting to know.
And I didn't even need to drink a snapple. 😂
@@GilbertCruz9203Or stay at a Holiday Inn.
Man, that's an unreal level of hubris
And besides that, he was arrogant.
He almost made it. A+ for effort.
Rich a**hole who thought he was God.
The pilot seems like he had a type a personality, the kind of guy who cuts you off while driving and gives you the stare like it's your fault.
It's probably the default personality for people with money
@@stellviahohenheimespecially people who get rich running a for-profit healthcare company. How many people does the company deny healthcare to so he gets a private plane?
His sheer arrogance! A good ole huntin' boy ("English proficient" no less), whose contempt for the airport manager and others was stunning. "...ln my pickup l coulda had it done in like thirty minutes".
ETA, l neglected to add his final insult: "I'll be good... if he gave us a decent place to turn around down here."
Yeah, the figurative stare or middle finger, at everyone else whose fault it was, but his own entitled self. Unbelievable.
Then kills animals for fun ...karma rules
@@katjay3125 💔
Very sad for the families involved, 121 pilot for 37 years and this was a very well done analysis. Don’t ever feel that you need to go unless just about everything is perfect and in your favor, it’s not worth it. 18:14
Don't understand the pilot's mindset, don't understand the passengers mindset... LOOK OUTSIDE, IT AIN"T FLYIN WEATHER
They trusted him, and they had no idea.
Decades ago I read that was The Rolling Stones #1 rule on travel. Crap weather was no fly.
As a passenger, you're the last check on your safety. We, as federal agents, were in Grand Cayman on an enforcement operation one time, and a government airplane, a Queen Air, was sent to get us when it was over. With all the passengers and cargo, we were so close to maximum gross take off weight that the pilots were planning on carrying minimum fuel, and refueling at Guantanamo Naval Base, and then Key West, and then Tampa, on our way back to New Orleans. The pilots debated this for thirty minutes with their calculators out and pencils and paper. I was getting uneasy and my partner Jeff said, "I'm going over to American Airlines and seeing if they have a flight we can get on." He came back fifteen minutes later and said they did. We walked over and told the pilots they could drop 400 pounds because we were going commercial. Both flights made it, and we caught hell from the fiscal office for taking a commercial flight after they had sent a government plane to pick us up, but I still am proud of myself for making that decision.
Mormons aren't big believers in reality. I grew up in the church. There's all these healing by prayer and surviving deadly circumstances by prayer stories due to prayer. You are constantly conditioned that all you have to do to overcome any obstacle is pray
@@hoppes9658 And that band RS has been around a long time. ~60 years? I wouldn’t even want to go hunting in that blowing snow weather, much less fly in a plane.
The stress of reporting on these tragedies week after week must take its toll on you, Hoover. Thank you for what you do, but please take good care of yourself, especially emotionally speaking. Respect! 🖖
I’ve been waiting for this one. This family was local to me and really affected the community.
I’m not a pilot and a bit of a nervous flyer but your debriefs make me feel a lot more comfortable with flying from having a better understanding. This one is just crazy, they had no Swiss cheese to start with .
How does this make you feel better 😂
@@csdcindwecsuchasc1686 😂😂😂honestly, think it’s not everyone can be this bad 😂😂
Horrible. I can’t even wrap my head around how many people were affected by this accident. Unbelievable. My father was a 727 pilot my entire life. He never let any of us fly with him in the small planes. I never understood why. Until he passed. This was his nightmare. Sending love and support to all those people who lost their loved ones. 💙🙏🏽💙 Definitely could have been avoided, smh.
727s were the best planes. I used to be a FedEx ramp agent and loaded and did the weight and balance on 727-200s. I got to fly up front with the crew a few times, before that privilege was taken away from us all.
Great planes, great pilots.
I think even the small planes are safer than driving.
@@joe-nf7cf let me guess because of 9/11
He passed in a crash?😮
@@mr.c5217 Well, the 2nd time they took it away, it was due to 9/11. The first time we lost the privilege, it was because that Auburn Calloway (a FedEx pilot that they were going to fire) jump seated on flight 705 and tried to hijack it. He intended to take it over and crash it.
Fortunately, after that died down, they let us jump seat again.
Excellent review Hoover. In-depth, clear caution, respectful to the lost. Thanks.
Tragic. I'm glad you included the information on the people killed in the crash. It serves to drive home the point that if a pilot is willing to risk his/her own life, then that does not me that friends and family should be subject to the same risk.
I’m thinking about that kid from the Titan submarine that didn’t want to go, but his father convinced him it was going to be fine. Maybe the little kids didn’t understand the risk, but imagine the terror if they did. Hope this is understood by other pilots with the temptation to show off to their families. A father’s job is to protect his family, and this guy’s arrogance is now his legacy.
No problem, in response to your thanks, for your support. It's very much appreciated that you create these videos and narrate your knowledge about every plane crash.
Being stubborn was a huge component of this crash.
This is a family of entrepreneurs. I'd assume that their prevailing mindset is: we can get it done, no matter what. Unfortunately, physics and nature don't really care about that.
@@ronjones1077 I would use a different word. Stupidity
Ego.
What went wrong? Overweight, out of CG limits, aircraft covered in snow and ice, a home remedy de ice that was only partially complete, and took off into a snow storm. This guys ADM is a poster child for the kind of pilot you don’t want to know.
I will say his home remedy de-ice isn't the worst I've seen. My cousins husband used vodka to clear ice off his plane once. He was used to flying in a warm climate and was caught completely off guard by the ice. He did successfully make it home so it must have worked but I'm glad I wasn't with him on that flight. At least isopropyl alcohol is much closer to what the airport uses.
@@Nilboggen I’m amazed he didn’t have a fire ignited by the alcohol hitting an electrical connection. Actually, a fire might have saved their lives. Vodka, should only be used for drinking. Hope it wasn’t expensive stuff.
Thank you for yet another honest, respectful analysis of how a pilot went wrong. We have all made mistakes, but you're literally helping people not make the same mistake.
Very concisely explained.
I always wanted to fly a plane and didn’t realise how much more there is than actually flying the plane.
As perhaps the saddest part of this story and others like it (John Kennedy, Jr.), these folks were not poor. They had the resources to utilize other options to get some of the family members back home presuming they had obligations that necessitating their return. Why travel in bad weather when you can just wait a day or two, or if necessary, go home by some other travel means and come back another day for the plane.
Good thought!!
rich folks sometimes are the stingiest people. the pilot couldn't stand the thought of spending one extra unneeded dollar.
@@jasonmarks1636 Sadly, you are more than correct. 75 years on this planet, 50 dealing with people has certainly proved that. And, Jason, I have some stories that are both hilarious and terrible.
Too much money and success.
Too much assertiveness.
Too little humility is a common denominator in these cases.
You equate success with money. 😢
LDS family
They think they can overcome anything. They can't.
Too many millionaires think because they made money that they can do whatever they want whenever they want and common sense doesn't apply to them. I would say this is a tragedy but none of these people seemed like decent people!
@@TheOsfania An «and» is not an «equal»…😉
I have never donated to your channel, Hoover, and I’m not a patreon. But here’s my first for all the debriefs you’ve done. I’m not a pilot, but I take a lot from the debriefs. Thank you.
100%...there are many life lessons to be learned here on this channel IMO 👍🏽😁
A truly professional series of important videos. Thank you greatly, I'm sure your you are helping with this endeavour. Peace and goodwill.
Any pilot's mindset needs to change from "...need to get home today" to "...need to get back home." I was never afraid to sit it out, turn around, or deviate. You must respect the atmosphere at any altitude.
@@aodhhanswtor7252 I checked what day it was. It was a Friday. What? So someone had a birthday party or baby shower or wedding the next day? And how did any of that justify the risk?
Thank you for the debrief of this accident. The initial NTSB investigation back in Dec 2019 was very sparse and lacking in detail. This very detailed review finally gives us very important info missing for all these years.
Excellent analysis I was involved and live in Chamberlain. Met 2 of 3 survivors.
One of your best videos, so many lessons here. Thank you.
I'm shocked to the core that any pilot would consider making a flight in those conditions & especially when they have so many family members on board! 😡
I'm MORE shocked that he flew to the destination with more passengers than seats. This wasn't configured as a jump plane.
I don’t believe I ever stopped shaking my head in disbelief for the entire length of the video
Same!!!!
@@esmeraldaguzman7049 beware of anyone named Kirk. In my life, Kirk=IDIOT!!
Man, back when I used to fly planes, something similar happened to me where I killed ten people. I was one of the lucky ones to make it. Or ONLY lucky one, I should say. I wasn't rated for the particular aircraft I was piloting. It was a twin engine and I was only qualified for a single. Not that big of a deal. The main problem was I couldn't find our destination AND I didn't have enough fuel, only a quarter of the amount we needed. Surprised we made it as far as we did. Make sure you gas up before depart. There aren't gas stations up in the clouds, lol.
I hoped you got jailed
@@beckydoesit9331Not funny. Sick
I'm just speechless. Who in their right mind would take off in conditions like that? What a tragedy that was completely preventable.
As usual, a stunningly well researched and put together debrief. This is one of the most intelligent and worth watching channels on UA-cam.
I think this is the most mind boggling pilot debrief yet. I just can't wrap my head around that image of the plane taking off in those conditions with your whole extended family on board.
Such a devastating event. Words can not express the depth of this tragedy. Prayers of peace to the remaining family members.
I've learned so much from you..thanks. People even cancel their camping trip when it rains. Those poor kids.
0:48 So many dead birds.
Look where the rifle is directed at the bottom right. Amazing carelessness.
Now I see you made the same comment. You're right.
I just wanted to tell you that I really enjoy your debriefs. You stay to the facts and make it easy for other pilots to learn from your debrief. Thank you.
I will just never understand this type of behaviour, especially from a pilot, more especially when other people's lives are at stake and shockingly when children's lives are at stake.
This is just so disgusting on so many levels.
It almost makes you think his checklist was nothing but a list of risks and he was determined to take every risk possible in that situation.
He probably got rich from taking risks and thought every time he took risks he was going to be awarded
Rich corporate types, physics didnt apply to him, or so he thought.
His lack on the minimum equipment list was *common sense*. Very sad for them - it must have been a mercy that they never saw it coming. One minute flying, the next minute -- well, that's that.
Sadly true. Those little boys tho😮
Thank you for including a date at the beginning of the video!!❤
Excellent report 👍👍👍👍👍💯
I found Hovers lessons translate into everyday life . Operating safely, awareness and knowing your limitations.
I agree
Hoover, I really enjoy your channel and appreciate the time you take to cover all aspects of flying mishaps. I spent 22yrs. in the AF as a fighter maintenance officer (F-15/16 and A- 10) attended the AF accident and engine training courses. I was fortunate enough to get and keep my altitude card which meant I would cover a lot of boards. I was stationed in Germany at Bitburg/Spang, Ramstein AB on staff. I was selling nachos at Flugtag when the Italian Demo team crashed into the crowds. Finally, my A-card put me in the backseat of an F-15 "tub" to do site surveys for additional forces coming over for the Shield/Storm. Lots of stories, most are true, great friends always.
Sorry, non-military. What's an "altitude card"?
@@yellowrose0910I’m non military advanced pilot and I’m here to see what the answer is.
@@mowtivatedmechanic1172 Sorry about that. An altitude card means I have been trained to experience the effects physically and mentally of exceeding 18K feet. With the card, the pilot is free to operate at altitudes suitable to the aircraft and his/her training. Airlines usually pressurize to 8K while climbing to higher altitudes.
@@Mcgregor854 oh ok. We call it the “high altitude” certification. Usually post IFR certification and collocated with some sort of type rating but not always. Thanks for the brief
I’m not a pilot and know nothing about flying, but the two things I’ve learned from watching your videos is over confidence and complacency will get you and others killed real quick.
Wow!!!! That video, the pleas from the APT MGR, the ice on the wings...I have no words
Man, back when I used to fly planes, something similar happened to me where I killed ten people. I was one of the lucky ones to make it. Or ONLY lucky one, I should say. I wasn't rated for the particular aircraft I was piloting. It was a twin engine and I was only qualified for a single. Not that big of a deal. The main problem was I couldn't find our destination AND I didn't have enough fuel, only a quarter of the amount we needed. Surprised we made it as far as we did. Make sure you gas up before depart. There aren't gas stations up in the clouds, lol.
Kirk's EGO killed everyone on board. That is the biggest lesson here! "Check (meaning stop!) your EGO" should be part of everyone's pre-flight checklist. A BIG EGO kills scores of pilots annually!
But lesson for who? Just us?
Not everyone. There were survivors.
Oh my God, i can't imagine what this Kirt guy could have been thinking. His hubris killed these people. As a passenger, its hard to believe any of the adults didnt get the hebeegeebes about flying in this weather and stay at the lodge another night. Totally inexcusable on Kirks part. This one really made me angry😡 My heart hurts for the families of these 4 generations especially the children 😢
Well, and a few misgivings- not to say- heeby jeebies about overloading the plane and two passengers with no seats or seatbelts-- that’s enough right there for a solid ‘No’ as a passenger
@@BamaCyn My friend I think 🤔 you like many others misunderstood the cause of the accident. It certainly wasn't the weather that caused the accident It was the fact that the pilot rotated 4 kts too early and then maintained an AOA much higher than a normal departure. These two items led to an aerodynamic stall and thus it wasn't the weather that caused this accident. In addition if the pilot had completed a center of gravity calculation he would have realized that the aft CG condition would cause the aircraft to pitch up after takeoff, again this is a non-weather related accident.
As a mother in this type of situation, I would never have taken my child and left the lodge for this flight. Unbelievable that a mother would walk/carry their child out in that kind of storm for a flight.
@@vickiesims1600 exactly
@@christophergagliano2051 I don't disagree with you as I can barely fly a paper airplane 🤣 but it seems to me with the accumulation of ice/snow on tail area they couldn't reach, over loaded plane, weather and runway conditions airport warned Kirt about, the rotation errors was the last of the holes in the Swiss cheese. Thank you for responding 🥰
Pilots, take this to heart and heed it. As with many similar tragedies, this was so preventable.
Thank u for these videos. I have been watching them and it made me take my first discovery flight here in NC. You videos on flight safety and how to properly handle situations helped me over come my fear and finally take a step. You prob won’t see this but thank u so much
Friends and Family should hear these stories. Flying is no joke. It’s not a hobby.
Excellent breakdown of a tragic story…as a life long pilot it makes me shudder to think of mistakes made …. Aviation is so unforgiving. We’ve all made mistakes but losing your family. It’s just the most painful.
I am not a pilot and rarely travel by plane. But I find your channel so informative and fascinating. Thank you.