Terry Pratchett on why Belief and Faith beyond the confines of religion and science are important.
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- Опубліковано 15 гру 2011
- From Terry Pratchett's The Hogfather.
Belief is very important to people. The things we believe shape the world around us.
"We need to believe in the little things before we can be prepared to believe in the abstract world around us."
[Removed]
Science isn't always right, Neither are religions.
Hope and Faith don't belong to either but are part of what it means to be human. We humans need our fantasies even if when we become older we simultaneously believe both.
I think this is very deep and If you are too small to see that, please keep your hate and ridicule off my channel.
Thanks for all of the love from the Pratchettarians. I miss Terry. He was always saying something deep or weird which would always make me think. His commentary on modern society that runs rampant throughout his books helped make me the man I am today. Thanks, Sir Terry.
![[Best Version] The Great Dictator Speech - Charlie Chaplin + Time - Hans Zimmer (INCEPTION Theme)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/w8HdOHrc3OQ/mqdefault.jpg)
I think Pratchett used DEATH as a voice of humanity because he knew it'd be the only one we'd really listen to
Er, no, not Death. DEATH
He is the universal truth we all share in common, after all.
We can choose to not believe in gods or men, or abstract ideas.
Death is inevitable though. The one thing in life you can't hide from or deny.
for now but like all obstacles we will over come them. then we will just have to over come taxs.@@NamelocTheBard
I remember hearing once that all humans have a consciousness, and that the words of that conscious are spoken by death.
Or in different words, Death is the driving force for our lives. What we do, how we behave, why we think, etc. Death will inevitably come for you regardless of whether you think so or not. And so our lives are thusly dictated by this inevitability. Its as if Death himself whispers into our ear, guiding our every action.
For Terry to use Death as the voice of humanity makes a lot of sense with this context.
Something about characters in a fantasy world who believe in the value of fantasies is... beautiful.
Self worth is important.
God bless him, Pratchett had an enormous gift for surprising with moments like that - when you least expected them.
read "Snuff' by Sir Terry Pratchett; it is about goblins; among other things.
@@michaelshigetani433
That... is an unfortunate name for a book.
@@hannibustoogfyrre6074 why? trust me , it fits
It's an interesting concept. The idea that things like justice, mercy, and duty are fantasies, since they're not tangible. But at the same time they're real because we as humans will them into existence
The Thomas theorem: If men define situations as real, they are real in their consequences.
Humans are orkz, basically :)
They are not real. We just depend on the consensual existence of them as a society.
I take it a step further.
There exist atoms of carbon and oxygen and hydrogen within us, just like they exist within all the stars in the farthest edges of the universe. What exists in the cosmos, we are but a microcosm. We are insignificant. We are not special.
But our stories, our fictions, justice, mercy, duty, _all_ of that exists only here, on this planet, in our lives. And so they, and by extension we humans, are unique, and precious, and must be cherished.
@@Vesperitis It really does come down to a matter of perspective, doesn’t it? On the cosmic scale we are pretty insignificant. But for a child to a parent, or a lover to their significant other, or a person towards someone else who saved their life, those people mean everything
The bit about what would have happened if she hadn't saved the Hogfather -- that the sun would not have risen, that a mere ball of flaming gas would have illuminated the world -- reminds me for some reason of the exchange in one of the Pirates of the Caribbean movies, after the Kraken is killed. I can't remember exactly but it was something like, "seems like the world keeps getting smaller." And Captain Jack Sparrow replies, "The world's the same size, mate. There's just less in it."
Without a barrier, fantastical or otherwise, fantasy dies, knowledge becomes too widespread and childlike imagination, one of the last vestiges of purity one has begins to be snuffed out. The Kraken's terror, was a necessary evil that gave people wonder of what else is out there...and with its death, uncertainty became certain and the flickering like of wimsy and bewilderment got snuffed out along with it. "There are some things man was never meant to know" and fantasy, as childish as it may seem to some, kept such doors: unethical, wrong, evil, what have you, closed. With the less in it, people will find new ways to make up the difference that are worse than the time hadn't they known. The Hogfather saying the sun wouldn't have risen (at least to me) with such certainty was a way to keep her or anyone asking such a question from delving into that possibility any further because of the dark implications such thoughts would take them. Keeping Pandora's box closed, as it were. A good comparison indeed
"the world used to be a bigger place"
"worlds still the same... theres just.. less in it"
That's actually a paraphrase of a famous quote from Sunset Boulevard (the film). "You used to be in silent pictures. You used to be big" "I am big. It's the pictures that got small"
With humanity's fear of death, and all the destruction and limiting humans do to unsuccessfully stop death, soon all that will be left in this world is humans stacked on top of each other in one big city. No imagination, no freedom, no joy, and the only escape will be death.
I found that little moment funny and heartwarming.
When the Hogfather gives Death the beard. Funny in that he doesn’t need it and Death apologises for it.
But also… the Hogfather gives gifts. He gave Death the beard, a little reminder of when Death was the Hogfather, and could do things he normally couldn’t.
Death liked being able to give gifts and be someone else for a time.
And he was able to give the world the belief that even if for a year the gifts were strange. And the children somehow stop beliving. That there will always be a hogfather there
@@trainman5675 existence of the cycles/loops doesn't require believing individuals to work. It's not a black and white situation.
The hogfather wouldn't also happen to be Santa Claus would he?
@@darthsader7089
He’s almost literally Discworld’s version of Santa, yes.
Death is one of the most tragic characters in Diskworld, he hates his job he wants to create not destroy but he does it because he feels a caring touch is needed for the job. He even refuses to do his job several times just to force a bit of justice and fairness into the cold uncaring world.
Basically one of my favourite quotes: "Too much sanity may be madness - and maddest of all: to see life as it is, and not as it should be."
'To be the place where the falling angel meets the rising ape.' Dammit Terry. That line gets me every time. First time I read the book (The day after Christmas) - I actually had to put the book down and think about it for a while.
A Terry Pratchett book was the Christmas present from my dad for years because he knew I would let him read it after I was done, when I grew up he said the hardest part of Christmas was listening to me chuckle to myself for two days while he was desperate to read the book!
@Paul Grove I just now heard that line for the first time. It utterly shook me. The kind of jarring shake that makes the mind reel. I quit reading the Discworld series a *long* time ago. Looks like I need to re-assess that.
@@jeffk1482 You really do. The first few (while good) are more spoofs on fantasy tropes (McCaffery, Leiber, Howard, etc) but the world really gets beautifully realized, and Sir Terry was a great communicator of big ideas while not preaching.
Someone should make a painting depicting this. I have an image in my mind, but I'm not a painter 😅
I personally find the line "the Sun would not have risen, [instead] a mere ball of burning gas would have illuminated the world." to be verry evocotive and good at describing the subtle but important differences our perception make in life.
i like how it initially sounds so cynical and rationalistic "justice, mercy, none of that really exists" but then ends it so nicely and encouragingly "but if you dont believe those lies, how can they become real?"
Cory Hooper death cares thats the reason why he is so good at his jobs. Caring for what you do this responsiblity of intiligent beining. Terry prachett wants people to decide fo themselves the most evil man in the books are these that do evil thinks without any Emotion.
Those things are important and exist in our society because we believe them to be important. As death describes "take the universe and grind it down to the finest dust and use the finest sieve, and show me one molecule of mercy". They're basically saying the natural state of the universe is merciless and horrible, and yet we act against this 'to be the place where the falling angel meets the rising ape'. To strive to be greater than what we are you need some belief to get you there.
I think the underlying point is from a completely rational and empirical standpoint no, there is no "mercy," no "justice," no "love" or "beauty" or "compassion." The universe was spinning long before we arrived and it will spin long after we are gone.
But, through our experiences and actions, we have made those things exist. We look at the cold, dark, unfeeling universe and say "What if...?" In a reality of 1s and 0s, of "Yes" and "No," we can ponder and accept "Maybe." And to date we are the only species on this planet to have articulated that.
We may indeed be stupid, egotistical, and self-deluded. But we have the potential to be, for lack of a better term, more than the sum of our parts. And it's that potential that Pratchet, through voice of the Reaper, is ultimately hinting at and encouraging in a very subtle but simple way.
molecule and atom are just an example for an easier understandment. Physics is vastly incredibly difficult and the things of which we dont yet know or plainly can't measure doesnt mean they could not have measure. Distance ? Oh but thats ground we cover something we can physically imagine for the most of it. Electons ? Really ? Those are smaller parts of atoms. Well what for gravity I'm not physicist but neither are you but it can be calculated and measured which therefore implies there is sth about those things that keeps them runing over and over and over and over again without breaking from the checkpoint a single bit. Physics exist of no matter if we are there or we are not there. We can't change laws of physics we can only observe use and discover sth new about them.
That's what Terry says about mercy duty and justice. They dont exist unless we develope them. And we do develope them sometimes unconciously. Most of that stuff I could actually put into a single word - morality. We human need morality to be human thats how we are different from animals. Yet as was said morality doesnt exist if we don't teach it to our children and they to their children and even if we dont do it the community will still do it. If you leave kids just alone for themself ....there is movies books and even historical facts about how cruel and terrible kids can grow. Worse than worst horrors of tribal life. They live in tribal psichology. We are where we are just because of thousands and thousands years of development of things like mercy duty justice - which I overall call morality - which we pass to our next generations. But if you come to a place where nobody ever thought anybody about justice mercy and duty ? It just doesnt exist there. Means it's not existant in nature at all. You dont see fox beeing merciful to a rabbit. If it catches it it kils it. If its not hundry it doesnt catch it but that doesnt mean it's mercy.
Then, as the Reaper says Mats, take the universe and grind it down to the finest powder and sieve it through the finest sieve and then show us one atom of justice, one molecule of mercy. What is the chemical composition of "inequality" or the formal for "malevolence?"
I really do think at this stage you are either just being contrary for contrary's sake, actively refusing to understand the point being made, or hinting there is some kind of intelligence outside of our own that causes such things (which is, in of itself, another thing you can neither quantify or demonstrate with empirical evidence.)
And either way you're demonstrating your own statement about humans being stupid, egotistical and self deluded pretty well.
Goosebumps at the realisation how true this is. Pratchett was a genius.
You actually don't need magical thinking at all. Humans feel mercy and have a sense of justice because evolutionary pressures gave these attributes to us. So these are all completely logical, if you think about it. Magical thinking is just an extra step that you have to slap onto it, but it is ultimately unnecessary and illogical itself.
It's not true at all. Concepts such as justice and mercy explain relationships between people or societies. Unlike fairy tales, dragons, or gods, they are not made-up ontologies; therefore labeling them in the same category would be a false equivalence fallacy.
@@nathanielg.m.888 In the end, it doesn't matter, we all end up in the same place.
@@DocStrange0123 Rationality matters to me. You add nothing to the conversation.
@@nathanielg.m.888 I don't care what matters to you, and I don't give a shit about adding anything to the conversation, I'm just stating a fact, that in the end, it won't matter, deal with it.
It's funny. My brother and his wife were determined when they had kids they weren't going to do the childhood folklore. No Tooth Fairy, no Easter Bunny, and no Santa Claus. But as the kids got older, and started to pick up on it from their classmates, the parents have had to give in through sheer force of will. It's not just that the kids believe. It's that they WANT to believe, that there is a big childhood-shaped hole that these things fill and if they aren't given the stories to fill it they will fill it themselves. The universe bends around that strong desire. They will grow out of it, and the Tooth Fairy or Santa will become a metaphor for how the supernatural elements of the world can always be explained. But for a few years, they BELIEVE.
I always did know there was no "christ kind", tooth fairy or what so ever...
It's all bs and how can you trust your own parents if they mislead you for years with a lie like that and having fun.
As for me, I still believe - and I'm in my 60s! (Crazy old lady much?)
@@beccacollins1528 Nah. I'm 40 and I still believe too. There was a period I didn't when I was younger, until I realized exactly the same thing that's explained in this clip, most of our reality is fantasy, and trough our shared belief we make it real. Maybe I don't believe in Santa as a physical being exactly, but it's the spirit of Santa that drives a lot of us to donate and give to charity at Christmas. A shared belief that moves so many of us to action, it's truly magical. There are many magical things in the world science can't explain, like consciousness, and everything we are arises from that, even science. Science is just a method, it can answer the how, but never the why.
@@daniel4647Always things science can't explain, until it does. We understand consciousness far more accurately than humans did a century ago. Why would that understanding suddenly fail to grow? It's an assumption.
I was actually the opposite, and I was pissed at my parents that they thought so little of me that they had to lie about krap that wasn't true, when they should have just been up front with it. If it's not real just tell me it's not real. The world won't end if you do.
I met Terry, oh so many years ago, at a small SF convention.
for a lark, he signed up for the masquerade, labeling his costume/act "A Traveling Author"
At curtain time, he was not there, having been delayed.
so when it was his turn, the stage was empty, and one judge asked "where is # XX the traveling author?
to which there was a shouted reply
"he is off traveling"
which now years later he still is, but spiritually as opposed to physically.
That is so in character, I love it.
No truer words ever spoken. "How else could they become?"
LABIA OF TRUTH
That is indeed the actual point of this, which seems to elude most people in these comments. No, morality, justice etc. are not true. They are lies in a sense. But by believing in them and acting as though they were true, they do indeed become reality: Justice is when people act justly. Morality is when people do good. This scene has a fundamentally practical outlook.
The philosophy which explores this systematically, by the way, is called "transcendental idealism".
I feel like growing up is finally accepting that some lies are good and believing in them is helpful. CS Lewis said it best.
There's a phrase "seeing is believing" but the reverse can also be true. Believing is as important as seeing
I feel that’s called “giving up” not “growing up”lies often are needed to help the people hurt by lies on the first place cope. Justice is a fantasy but justice wouldn’t be needed of people didn’t lie. There is a huge correlation between mental illness, imaturty and a need for justice.
I think the point also is. If people believe in justice, mercy etc. And act to express it. Then it exists. Because people made it. Not because it was there before.
You are all idiots. Please don't take life advice from anyone in the film business. They aren't scientists. Believing in something that is false is why religion has destroyed so much advancement in humanity. It will always hold us back.
One can’t truly believe a lie because if you come to the conclusion it’s a lie in the first place then you inherently don’t believe it.
I have watched and rewatched this several times. It sticks with ya because it's not the normal nihilistic response most settings throw at you about the bigger picture.
It reminds us why humanity has power that we sometimes forget we possess by just believing something true.
At the same time potential has also done a LOT of damage to humanity. Organised faith is also this but less innocent. Where huge groups have power because they all believe something to be true. the difference here is that power is used to surpress and destroy others. Demonise others. Telling them they are evil or going to hell for believing different things. The power of believing in things science can not prove has it's beauty, but like everything else, it has a dark side. A very strong and dangerous dark side. Because in this case if everyone did stick to believing only in what science could show, we would at least be more unites as a species. Imagination is something different. You dont perse have to believe that which you come up with. Creativity and the joy of wonder and imagination can still excist in a world that uses science as it's foudation. After all the whole point of science is curiousity and finding anwers to the questions that enchant and haunt us. When we start believing in something without proof that in itself is not a problem. It is when you impose that without proof onto others. If your believes stay personal, thats alright. But when groups believe something, that rarely happens because humans want to be right, and if their group is right it means every other group must be wrong. And so violence happens.
I'd say its closer to absurdism
I am grateful to have met Terry, and even more grateful for his books.
Mr. Pratchett, you are missed.
indeed
GNU Sir Terry Pratchett.
@@michaelshigetani433A man is never truly dead so long as his name is spoken. May it live forever in the Clacks.
@@peterbear4413 The Turtle moves.
Its the human instinct to want something beyond itself. To want more than the simple mundane world.
No, that's not a "human instinct", if it were, it would apply to everybody. I for one am perfectly happy with the real world as it is.
@@robokill387 Cynicism.
@@robokill387You’re the oddball then.
One of the symptoms of a depressive disorder is actually a weakening of the imaginative ability. We are miserable when we are just going through reality. Life is wonderful when you have the capacity for fantasy, imagination, and to see the beauty in things. Losing your ability to dream and interpret will literally suck the life out of you.
@@My-Name-Isnt-Important dont be so quick to condemn, alot of people selling you worlds outside of this one are doing it for malicious reasons. Scientology would be a great example. Being cynical is a defense mechanism against being taken advantage of and its not always wrong.
Pratchett was on another level. I just started my Discworld journey and I instantly fell in love. So happy I get to read all these books for the first time.
I read the series twice. Including the Science of Discworld books. I recently started again. They never get old!
@@mbrackeva Indeed they do not. I have read, and re-read every scrap that has been published by Sir Terry Pratchett, and still find new things to wrap my head around.
You're on a journey then much like Twoflower😊
@@jcbass2u what discworld book are all about ?
Ngl .. I'm kinda jelly.
To everyone who is confused and angry: a lot of what death is saying isn’t literal. Philosophy 101: not everything is meant to be literal. When death talks about “lies” he is referring to humanities limited knowledge and belief that there is absolution, order and that all these human constructs exist outside ourselves, when in reality the universe is boundless, orderless and is just is what it is. What we see is what we want to believe and we use that belief to employ our creative understanding of the universe.
When death talks about “fantasies” he doesn’t mean the literal meaning. He means that our imaginations are what makes us human. That imaginations give us order, logic and science. How else do you think society came to be during its primitive years? And yes I know they did mention toothfaries and Hogfathers etc but again, not meant to be literal! The point is that we need fantasies to allow us the capability to believe we can achieve the impossible and allow us to explore the wider world. He did not say, oh just believe in the Boogeyman and stay indoors. And besides, if you believe that all of what death says isn’t true, then frankly you’re just proving his point.
Truth is but an illusion just like time. It’s a human construction of logic built upon imagination and creativity. Justice is a human construct of establishing morality because good and evil don’t exist. We only believe they exist because that’s all we have to believe. We believe time is relevant because it was built on the imagination of human’s limited knowledge.
After all, the great physicist Albert Einstein once said “Imagination is more powerful than knowledge because knowledge is limited. Imagination encircled the world.”
Bottomline, stop taking the words lies and fantasies so literal and actually attempt to apply logic to their words. You don’t have to believe them but you also don’t have to dismiss them.
I would further like to add that what Death is saying isn't meant to be taken in a cynical way. The only reason it may be cynical to you is because you don't like the idea that absolution and order does not exist in the universe and that it is only a construct of human imagination. If anything, because there is no absolution, we aren't bound by fate and we are free to pursue our own destiny. We have the imagination to come up with logic and we have the imagination to believe in religion because it is what humans do. You cannot take away what humans do by applying that what you believe is absolute, because it is not. A lot of what Death is saying is rather profound and actually positive for something so existentialistic.
Decir que el universo es "limitado y desorganizado" es otro ejemplo de lo ignorante y limitada que es tu inteligencia.
Kind of ironic to try to add logic to something illogical
Sir Terry should be on the Curriculum in every school on the world, especially in Literature, Science, religion, and especially on free thinking, although that last one may be quite a chore , as free thinking seems to be a bit outside of the norm these days.
No, just stop. He was a mediocre fantasy author. I read some of his books and couldn't stand them, they were such a snoozefest, except for the parts that were annoying due to how "clever" the author clearly thought they were being.
Mediocre?, I beg to differ. Anyone who has sold over 100 million books must be doing something right. @@robokill387
@@robokill387 Which ones in particular?
Why think even you can tik tok?
@@robokill387pretty rude man
Terry Pratchett was both hilarious and *_very_* insightful.
"live by the harmless untruths that make you brave and kind and healthy and happy"
Is that from one of the Discworld books?
@@marcusblackwell2372 nope. It is from Cat's Cradle by Kurt Vonnegut
RIP, Sir Terry. The world misses you.
I know that I might have it wrong: but what he is saying that the universe is basically a giant ball of apathy that doesn’t care about the actions we do. Everything from splinters to calamities happen at random with no inherent purpose. But people make up stories about these calamities and actions on everyday life, while adding lies disguised as lessons to give them purpose. Those lies are what lead people to believe in the lies of honor, mercy, justice, and all that sort. The point is that we need lies in our lives, for that’s how truth and humanity begins.
It is more that we need to believe and have faith in the abstract as much as we have faith in the material world. Even if quantum many worlds is completely off-base, we must understand that our meaning is subjective to everyone else as theirs are to us. So are their intentional lies, yes. But are things like mercy, hope, and truth are more like abstractions which must be interpreted by the individual. Hope that helps.
@@ThatTieDyeGuy I don't know, this seems like a much closer interpretation to what Death was saying here than "believe in things science can't justify." Especially considering he called these types of things (and I'm paraphrasing) lies that allow us to keep on living in a careless, merciless world. Emphasis on the *lies* part. If applied to religion (which I'd expect a lot of people are, considering the title), it's at worst calling these out-and-out lies, and at best calling them fabrications that allow us to live structured, civilized lives.
Right, all of human society is based on 'lies.' If you consider a religion to be an institution with no physical basis in reality upheld only by people's belief in it, every country, society, and organization falls under that same definition. Our collective ability to believe each others' lies is one of humanity's greatest strengths.
@@Rashkbb I mean, it is, technically. Though instead of lies, I'd argue it's more accurately human-held beliefs that, outside of society, mean nothing to the natural world. Countries are arbitrary lines we draw over land and resources we keep for our own tribe. Societies and organizations are just groupings of people with common goals. All of which is held together by our beliefs, which the universe at large is uncaring to.
It doesn't mean that it doesn't have meaning, of course, considering "meaning" is a human concept in itself. Just that it's a small amount of structure/hope that we can provide ourselves in an otherwise uncaring universe. In a way it's kind of "Baby's First Dip into Nihilism/Existentialism."
@@HolyApplebutter Death of the humans in Discworld is the most rational, scientifically minded personification of a force of nature you will find. It is described as what WE, as humans, perceive it to be; and we infected it with our humanity; ever since, Death has foght to preserve life against the Auditors of Reality. He was even fired from his post once, and decided to walk the earth, and found a job as a reaper man. When it speaks of things becoming, he is talking about itself, who wouldn''t have ever felt emotion if we didn't give it to him. IN fact he makes it a point to be there when people die, because to him is a very personal affair. Just because he is incapable of creation doesn't mean he can't feel empathy. We gave that to him. Because that's what most people believe in or hope for a PEACEFUL DEATH. A MERCYFUL DEATH. Even is most people are scared of it, he is there to guide them to their final destination, to the ultimate reality. HE is the END of the fantasy we call life. Thus he is at the same time ruthless and just, rational and emotional.
Here he is talking to his grand daughter (long story) about something he can only understand on a rational level: what it takes to BE humane.
We don't need feelings to exist. We need feelings to be HUMAN. As such, we tell ourselves stories, of how to be brave, how to achieve things, we created order and chaos.
One of my favorite quotes, not only from Terry Pratchett or Discworld, but the whole literature.
I qouted this as part of my Art class final. 'Humans need fantasy to be human.' love it.
One of the greatest lines in all of literature.
Given the fact there are a lot of recent comments from the past few days, either we all share one collective braincell and all collectively decided to look up this brilliant scene, or the UA-cam algorithm all recommended this to a lot of people randomly
Algorithm. But that thing is never really random, so every time something like this happens it makes me wonder what it's up to. Considering the message in this clip I'm just going to assume it's end goal is a good one and trust it.
It was used in a warhammer meme about chaos cultist convincing a loyalist
I just bought my first Pratchett book because of this video.
45 years old and i am crying right now, my eyes have been opened.
To summarize what it's saying: The world isn't just or fair. Those concepts are not intrinsic things that exist in the universe. But, because we believe in them, they do exist, in some capacity, and only exist because of that. More than religion and science, morality, right and wrong in and of itself, is what we as a whole have decided. And we need to believe it, or the world would not be worth living in.
It's an interesting point, and accurate. Scientifically speaking, justice, hope, these things are ideas, *ideals.* Ideals that many strive for, but they are not something that exists outright. Nature itself is not fair, not just, not kind nor cruel. It simply is. it exists, it lives, and moves forward, that's that. If not for our ideals, we would never be more than any other beast on our world. But, because we have these concepts, we can be more.
"To be the place where the falling angel meets the rising ape"
this idea, this concept, is so central to so much of what Sir Terry Pratchett wrote. I do recommend his books, I think you'd find the depth in them that many critics miss.
I love The Hogfather! So much depth to a fairy tale. I discovered The Hogfather thanks to Blockbuster Video! It's been a Christmas tradition ever since, and one my kids look forward to each year!
Every Christmas I would buy and read one of his works and marvel at his imagination philosophy and humour over the break. Christmas is just not the same.
Hog father. Sublime masterpiece. The Tourist is also.
Why does this make me cry Every. Single. Time. ?????
Because it's all true deep in our hearts we know this, and it's upsetting
One of our current challenges is that we can't seem to agree on how to determine what is true and what is not. The time to believe something is after it's been demonstrated. That which can be proposed without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.
Like human rights.
It’s not about what science can discover to exist, but about what exists and doesn’t extra -- and then how human fantasy is necessary to bring things that don’t exist into existence.
I used to be afraid of death, and filled loathing about how insignificant and tiny and meaningless everything was. I realized eventually through fantasy and imagination that we are exactly what we are supposed to be and anything that we do is human because we are the ones doing it. There is a reason were at his size on this earth with this star in this galaxy, and it could be as simple as just because someone imagined it.
The true definition of death. One cannot give value to things after this same thing "go through a sift". Still, we give meaning and a name to the emptiness of our soul.
Justice, mercy, duty... These only exist because we have values and ideals, and we practice them. The mistake every philosopher makes is believing these things are something more than emergent properties of social instincts in biological organisms.
Sir Terry Pratchett literally makes that argument here. That we make those things real. That they don't physically exist outside of us.
The most profound and succinct summation of the human condition.T.Pratchett,no fool.A loss too soon.
Such a weird movie, saw it only once on christmas and I'm left with cryptic memories ever since.
It was a long way into the book series.. Read Guards, Guards! to get an idea of his humour then go and start from the beginning with 'The Colour of magic'. the first two books are not very funny but they build a new and unique world by book 3 'Equal Rites' he is getting into his stride and the books become better and better after that, up until he got Alzheimer's and then the humour went away. RIP Sir Terry Pratchett.
"Recently I won an award and I was offended because they actually accused me of creating literature" Sir Terry Pratchett
@@carlchapman4053 The Color of Magic belongs to the same series? I loved that movie as a child.
@@thefattesthagrid The movie is the first two books, back in 1983 Pratchett was an obscure author with no real fan base so the publisher only produced the first half of the story to see if it would sell, it did so they released the second half as 'The Light Fantastic'. Read, enjoy and I hope you get a lifetime of funny quotes to say to people. Note - All of Pratchett's books are full of funny subtext which the Kindle handles very badly, I recommend the printed paperbacks as the best way to read the stories in the manner that Terry wanted them to be read.
@@carlchapman4053 The last book I read, was Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix. And forever will be.
@@carlchapman4053 I just finished Colour of Magic and started Light Fantastic. Publisher WEIRDLY made Terry split it into chapters, the first book reads like episodic series that stops at random spots, then instead of transitioning to next event it starts world-building and story so far like an anime season recap.
Hilariously I started reading Pratchett after going through entire Harry Potter and finding Rowling insufferable starting with Order of the Phoenix lol... only read that because of goddamn blackouts russians made by bombing our critical infrastructure during winter. Monstrous Regiment was... very relatable.
My family and I watch both parts of this every Christmas, it's become our Christmas tradition at this point.
And sherry and pork pies as a well!
This scene still chokes me up.
It took me a long time to realise this. But few truer words have ever been spoken
There is evidence that the placebo effect is much more effective than previously though and actually have beneficial effects like recovery with health issues or sustaining people through difficulties in their lives. In my personal life I've actually experimented with it and although anecdotal I have noticed that life is generally more pleasant and tolerable when I pray and express gratitude to a higher power, albeit purely anecdotal of course.
Kinda similar to this Carl jung influenced alchoholics anonymous with ideas such a “surrender to god as you know him”. And he genuinely meant it to be up to the persons interpretation. Seems like a good example of a simple fantasy helping people do great things.
Dang it, now I want to see the movie! Better yet, I want to read the book. Again. And again. Really miss Sir Terry!!!
If you believe something to be
than it shall be, just because somethings work in certain way doesn't mean it will stay that way forever.
The possibility of knowledge requires presupposing that which materialism cannot account for. At some point belief is required to know anything.
As a child I never fully understood this message. I remember one day re-reading the book and it finally clicking. My mind was truly blown that day, it felt like I’d unlocked a secret of the universe 😅
When I saw this I nearly dropped my glass. Absolute insight.
wow. quite unexpected. that was deep
Brilliant
This is probably the best take ive heard on the topic
The almighty algorithm has guided me to some questionable things, but this is truly unique and curious about this
All dreams are lies until they're not.
That isn't how any of those words function.
@@restfulori212 I love that you still managed to incorrectly use the words you responded with while trying to mock me.
Figurative language doesn't mean you use words incorrectly. 😂
Saying you'll do something and failing isn't lying. Dear god, that'd mean anyone that said "I'll be there at 1" and then was behind a slow driver is a liar. @@restfulori212
You literally failed to use the meaning of 'lie' *correctly. Goddamn it.
@@jnewgotI think they meant you took the phrase at face value rather than reading between the lines. If anything guy youd probably suck at poetry reading
Funny since people enjoy my poetry. I know what the words mean, and the phrase. The term is being used incorrectly. -,-@@itsjustvin7630
Molecules of Mercy is my favorite flavor of dippin dots
damn now I'm crying. I love this
the reason humanity needed to believe in those things is that it was beneficial for our hunter-gatherer ancestors to believe in those things, "for the good of the tribe", which then drives a community to survive. its thought that early "proto-speech" was a practical innovation that makes complex group cooperation more practical for survival.
A good demonstration, why taking the concept of "reason" to a logical extreme, is very unreasonable.
It's certainly true but it's certainly not everything that there is to it :3
@@fwarinben7418 I will await your evidence with anticipation
@@gawkthimm6030
See for yourself
I would say, but
Okay. Narurally, will be human rational, materialistic-inclined or irrational, mystic-inclined - that's not for the human to decide. What's truly decides all is amount of activity in left-right hemisphere of brain. People with left-hemisphere activity prevailing that of right tend to see world as a bunch of cold static facts, from "rational" perspective. People with overactivity of right hemisphere tend to encounter "metaphysical phenomena" in reality. Perceive other aspect of reality, in other words. Because, naturally, left hemisphere is all about atomising reality and manipulating aspects of said reality through correct understanding. And right - about perceiving reality in all it's ambiguity and vagueness. The thing is, left hemisphere is overactive and won over right hemisphere. And so our world became imbued with the poison of rationalism and humanity lost the feeling of meaning in all this. That's why world is going to end soon but I digress.
Honestly, I would rather send you to read 800-pages long monography/book with alalysis of brain's structure and analysing of clinical cases, from which I grabbed it all rather than write it all because I can't write english, I just connect parts of sentences which I remember from books that I read and which should channel to you some meaning that I trying to say. Very interesting read.
At the end of the day, spiritual things are not even lies. They exist. It's just another aspects of visible reality to which we attach convenient meanings-words but which do not understand because it's aspects ambiguous by nature and we tend to interpret them with the help of images from our culture, we attach to them words and words change as we see them. (Even spiritualism is killing spirituality these days, just how metaphysics kill metaphysic, lol)
In reality, though, those phenomena lie beyond the borders of any language which is rational tool in itself. But language only mirrors reality. It's parallel to world but do not holds any depth of said world. Indescribable feelings that you feel is true experience, true encounter with "everydayness". Even table can give you indescribable feelings at times
@@fwarinben7418 and our brain evolved into this because it was a benefitial survival mechanicism for proto-humanity, early homonids.
It’s like paper money. As long as we all believe it’s worth something it is.
Pratchett wrote about this too, funnily enough.
Strakenzky covers this as well in Babylon 5 (highly recommended to all; esp Discworld natives) where a character states that "Faith and Reason are like your left and right feet. You can get far on just one, but it's much easier with both"
Insanely true
Anyone who thinks that science is not a thing of imagination has obviously never done it. A scientific theory is an idea that needs to be imagined by humans in order for it to be. Every scientist I've met is a sincerely creative person with a great love of artistic expression, and very appreciative of their subject matter and fascinated by them - it's _why_ they study stars, plants, atoms, etc. The dry naysayer you find in fiction is as fictional as the stories they inhabit - a scientist at their core is still a human, with every thought and feeling that you have.
That's not to say that scientists don't deliver bad news; they do. The universe we live in is at times a deadly thing that will destroy us without a moment's hesitation, and we need to know what its rules are and keep those rules firmly in mind as we make our way through it. The shiny toys are made in hopes that they will ease our burdens and let more people be creative and fulfilled, instead of simply surviving moment to moment.
I believe.
In short, the universe doesnt care. I just is.
We humans care, and we make our own purpose.
And through faith, we make things that don't exust, a real thing. Be that a religion, a painting, an invention or something like justice or love. All in persuite of making things better for us.
it's that same burning need to make art. it's why churches and holy texts are decorated. Our faith, our BELIEF makes these things real. For every invention, every single thing we have ever made or will make; started as a Dream, then an Idea; then we MAKE IT REAL.
Ahhhh Terry I really really miss you
Once you know it, it is impossible to miss how close Pratchett and Gaiman were.^^
This is where I find it hard to imagine how other people think. Some people apparently believe that those things Death lists are inherent to existence, and that without (insert belief here), those things cannot be.
But they are, because we make them. No jumbo jumbo needed. Just a belief, and a desire to see it so.
Your two points in the first sentence (they are inherent / they only exist if we believe them) seem to run contrary to each other. I think TP was saying they are not inherent, but are needed to be believed in because that's what defines 'humanity' (or sentience, if you will.)
@@korbacwystan9333 No, I'm saying that I don't understand people who think that those things are inherent to existence, I'm saying that I don't think that they are. They are clearly things we make.
Justice, mercy, and all that, are things we made up, not aspects of the universe akin to fundamental forces.
I know fullwell what Sir Terrence was conveying. As much as anyone may know another's thoughts.
Its a cosmic comedy how after 11 years people are finally really making these clips go viral. The more the algorithm tries to wall off the divine, the more cracks in the wall it creates for the divine to slip in.
💀
Fascinating.
We need not believe in thing that aren't true. We need to believe in things that aren't physical, palpable. That doesn't make them any less true.
No, I don't agree with that. Concepts such as "mercy" "justice" and "good" are not needed.
If DEATH was really like this, dying would honesty be a lot less scary.
I always enjoy versions of death who are more personable, discworld, and the sandman too the list.
I always eat a ham at Christmas. Science cannot explain why.
I know I learned something new today.
Neat scene, but I'd argue it's more about philosophy than "believe in things that science can't justify."
This is a good example why I believe, fully and truely, that god (or any god/s) are no facts.
But they are real because of our faith in them.
Proving their existance is pointless.
But believing in them has "proven" their existance to yourself.
You believing in god make god more real.
Yes, but beliefs have their own associated costs. Are you getting good value for the effort involved in yours?
GNU TERRY PRATCHETT
I cried
This is the highest thought humans can achieve, without God.
If there was a god, id imagine they were incredibly lonely and that's why they would create the universe, a random generation machine that pops out sentient beings
THIS IS NOT A FREE SPEECH ZONE, I REMOVED FIVE TODAY AND I WILL DO THE SAME TOMORROW. TAKE YOUR JUDGEMENTS AND YOUR RELIGION OR YOUR MISUNDERSTANDING OF HOPE AND FAITH ELSEWHERE AND BE A DICK TO SOMEONE ELSE WITH THEM.
I reopened the comments here at the advice of a user. Please Be Civil. Ad Hominem Attacks will get ALL of your comments deleted; if it gets out of hand again I will just suspend commenting again. I think this is very profound and that is why I posted it, if you don't like it, FINE. But go be a mean angry jerk elsewhere.
So I stumbled onto this video and I am utterly intrigued. I wish that this was part of a movie so that I could understand it better and more fully. Also, until seeing the comments below, I wasn't familiar with Mr. Terry Pratchett or any of his writing. Could someone recommend what I should read first to be introduced to him?
Thank you,
~ Jonathan
hahahaha are you really corrupt by the power that little option gives? dayum, you really need a win lol. you're a jerk... go ahead, close all of your comments, I will report all of your videos anyways :)
@@jonathananthony3784 Id start with "The colour of magic" i think that's the first Discworld novel.
@@DroogVoom Thanks sincerely!---looking for the book now!
~ Jonathan
So, you don't accept people who don't agree with your views. OK, got it. You can delete my comment anytime.
Damn, I love this series of books (around 40), and the audio book series... but whenever they attempt live action... worst shite ever. The last one on The City Watch almost made me cry.
Oh Lord yes that attempt at the City Watch was an abomination, it had the feel of being done by the very worst aspects of the BBC but with less funding and maybe drugs, a lot of drugs.
Going Postal is quite good and follows book tightly, but maybe I'm not objective;p
Right up there with Tolkien. A statement I rarely make.
Half of Pratchett is the people and story. The other half is the _writing_: the turn of phrase, the well-placed footnote, the stealth puns. A film adaptation can only even _start_ to encompass half of that. :-(
You need to believe in things that aren’t true. How else can they become? Beautiful line
Ah, commenting is back!
Good egg!
{:o:O:}
Me transitioning mtf hearing this qnd crying in joy
They say believing is the best thing in the world, is easy at first, to belive I mean, but over time, it seems to require an absurd level of naivety fueled by a lack of rationality. I understand to some extent how belief can bring happiness, as those who believe don't necessarily need to know, and ignorance can be a means to achieve happiness.
The problem of who believes begins when the believer wants to impose that belief on others, such as the invasion of religion in the democratic state of law, with laws governed by those who believe imposing those who do not share the same belief.
Just remembering that the time they believed controlled the laws was called the Dark Ages. Now why does history define something that is considered so good as the Dark Ages?
I and I think he is talking about believing in the important things like love and hope and friendship... not the manipulation of priests and their followers.
I don't think it is ignorant to believe in things that can not be counted and cataloged, there is should be a balance between what we can prove and what we can hope for. For example, I am a big fan of the Quantum Many Worlds Theory. Most of the science is pretty solid until that point where we have to wait for technology to catch up to find out. Until that happen I choose as an act of free will to believe that QMW is true and correct until I encounter something that is a better model of reality. Yes, Occam's razor does state simplest explain, but remember it is followed by the words that fit the evidence. The implications of QMW make it a better model of reality than the Standard Model currently embraced by science.
Concerning belief one is also required to take into account the Observer phenomenon that we can not recogncile with the standard model.
@@ThatTieDyeGuy He talks about the general concept of "believing" because we are creatures that we need to believe even if it isn't true, in order for it to become true.
Being compassionate benefits the compassionate person, with no belief in lies needed. I learnt this from Buddhism and the psychology of people with high level psychological health.
Congrats, you have moved from believing the little lies to the big ones.
You still believe a lie, it's just one involving the importance of human connection and psychological health. It's a good lie to believe in!
Says the guy who meditated under a cobra and fought a demon.
@@Naeron66 Buddhism doesn't necessarily imply to believe in the mythological aspect of it. It's not a "religion" as in the western conception, more like a practical philosophy you try to implement in your daily life
"with no belief in lies needed. I learnt this from Buddhism" Umm, Buddhism is LITERALLY a "lie" in the sense he describes it. The belief in Buddhism in not more grounded in reality than belief in Santa Claus or a Tooth Fairy. It's literally a religion, despite Westerners trying to deny that, it has temples, rites, priests and monks, literal ones. Actual Buddha statues in places of worship. It fits every single criteria for religions. Calling a religion a "practical philosophy" doesn't change the fact it's based purely on belief in said philosophy.
Power is an illusion, its a trick, a shadow on the wall, and a very small man can cast a very large shadow.
Things like power, mercy, justice, they are things we create internal to ourselves. *We* decide what is mercy, what is justice. So let us choose wisely.
this makes me wonder how many reddit atheists or fundamentalist atheists saw this and went mad or would love to try to out argue death here. death is right and nobody can realy disprove his point.
Most people who subscribe to the "justice and mercy are fantasies" worldview do so because it gives them an excuse to be unjust and merciless, but Death shows us that they matter *BECAUSE* they're fantasies.
GNU Terry.
GNU Sir Terry Pratchett
Gotta love a hot comment section 11 years later.
At any rate, I like the ideal but reject the principle. Saying that Atoms are truth and Love is a lie is wrong, both on the level that both are human cognitive models for understanding a reality more complicated than we will ever know, and on the level that there is a real, biological, measurable interaction that drives Love, and Hope, and Wonder. We don't need a "reason" to love, it's in the molecules that make us.
I make this distinction because I cannot stand by hopeless nihilism, the kind that says "there is no ultimate meaning, and that's bad because we can't justify our humanity". If the universe has no ultimate meaning, then that only means that the meaning we see is generated, not "false". Go be a kind, loving human, because it's meaningful to you.
There are many things beyond the cognitive and rational that still elude us, in source and action (i mean in terms of the mind, and human existence, by the by). If the 'truth' is provable science, then little white lies (stories) are what we've used to explore what we couldn't physically probe and demonstrate, but what is nevertheless still empirically evident. Or at least that's what i'm interpreting THIS particular story to say.
That's exactly the point of this speech. These things don't exist outside of humanity, they are not inherit to the universe itself, we are the ones that create these things and that makes us human. Without them we wouldn't be able to function past a certain evolutionary point. That doesn't mean these things become absolute, they are still our own fabrications and products of milions of years of chemical evolution. That's why they are seen as false, as truth is absolute and these things are not. But whether the answer to something is true or false depends entirely depends on what question you are asking.
I'm unsure about "the molecules that make us" or whether you were just using that in a particular fancy as obviously there's no definitive love molecule and the concept of love isn't tangible. However there are chemical processes in complex living organisms which are there to stimulate the actions that emulate/beget aspects of the concept of love. I pretty much agree though nevertheless if that's what you may have meant.
You just described optimistic nihilism.... “if there is no “meaning” of life then I decide what it is to me”
Even nihilism has been corrupted from its original intention.
@@decrulez Now that's just an oxymoron
"To be a scientist is to be naive. We are so focused on our search for truth, we fail to consider how few actually want us to find it.
But it is always there, whether we can see it or not, whether we choose to or not.
The truth doesn't care about our needs or wants. It doesn't care about our governments, our religions. It will lie in wait for all time. And this, at last, is the gift of Chernobyl. Where I once would fear the cost of truth, now I only ask...
What is the cost of lies...?"
Humanity can not agree on it's lies, it's fantasies. Have they really made us better? Made our existence better? Ask the victims of genocide or war the cost of duty or honor to one's country. We will continue to debate, harm and kill each other over phantoms of reality. We do not have to mire ourselves in delusion to enjoy life or find purpose. We need not rose colored glasses to see beauty in life and no flowery prose will blind my eyes, but perhaps mine will open yours.
Underrated comment. Well-said.
I’m honestly not entirely sure what your point is or what your philosophy is all about. If your point is that fantasies and lies have absolutely done more harm than good, then not only does a sith deal in absolutes, but to quote Death from this video…
“You try to act as if there’s some ideal order in the world, as if there’s some rightness in the universe by which it may be judged.”
As a kid, i never understood this. Not really. Now i see it a bit better in the context of hyperreality. Nothing is true, everything is permited(from assasin's creed, an observation of reality); that is to say that we ultimately build our reality and we have the ability to shape. For justice and morality to exist, you have to believe in it, even if its not convenient
or everything is true and because of that all things are possible yet only as real as the force of collective belief that backs them up. Plants only grow if you water them. Great comment, Thank you.
But if you took the universe and ground it down into tiny pieces and sifted everything away there would be no life or consciousness and therefore no need for anything like justice or compassion.
so if used the sentence " but if you examined every atom of the universe with every sensor and scientific instrument"
He isn't asking if there was a need for justice or compassion. He's asking if it exist objectively.
He is not asking for the need, he is asking for their objective existence.
"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?" When Death says it, it seems to indicate that belief is a catalyst for creation, hope, philosophy, ethics, and art. But what about when a politician says it? Now it seems to be a catalyst for fabrication, disinformation, propaganda, and conspiracy. You need to believe in things that aren't true! How else can they become?!
Fair point. I just want to take this from a positive perspective. Be hopeful and move forward. That’s how I take this quote.
each of us has a moral and ethical compass, we have been taught general right and wrong. You believe the things that make sense and leave you feeling uplifted without controlling others. What the politicians are doing is Manipulation for political gain. Fight fabrication and disinformation with facts, propaganda with truth, and conspiracy by accepting that certain unhappy people get together to do horrible things. Nowadays through compartmentalization and the need to know control schemes, it has become vastly easier to pass off a nutty conspiracy theory as the truth. But we must always remember that bad people will work together to do something evil which is in their mutual interests. Silencing the Kennedys and Martin Luther King Jr for example were both proven in the house select panel on assassinations to have been conspiracies, even though they still teach the single gunman versions to school children.
taken form the description "I think this is very deep and If you are too small to see that, please keep your hate and ridicule off my channel."
don't you love it when people use interesting philosophical questions as a way to give themselves a superiority complex?
Enjoying fantasy is a far cry from "believing" in it. I am a big fan of science fiction and fantasy. But I still recognize that it is fiction. Things that aren't real only become real in a delusional mind. Things that exist that are not quantified by science only means that science hasn't figured it out yet.
who gets to decide what is and what is not "real." Currently what people are used to calling "real" are just collections of atoms being held in a pattern by magnetic fields. The Problem with defining real after a certain point we can no longer observe something and again science proves over and over again, that the world does extremely strange things when we are not staring at it.
I didn't hear "believe in fantasies," I hear our need to be able to have faith in abstract concepts that make us better people as a whole.
Finally, I am pretty sure that there will be stuff that science is not sure about going on long after we are both myths in the stories of school children and for many of those things, we require a small measure of faith that will continue working as we believe they do. Gravity is like this. We can describe it and include it in our mathematics. But to understand what it is we must have faith in one of several unprovable hypotheses and theories. The ability to consider the world through the veil of abstract notions is one of those things that many psychologists believe makes us uniquely human.
You should look up Thomas theorem, nerd.
i seen this years ago and and just started reading the disc world series and holy shit...
Belief is an ignorant habit, we are spirit, not body, but we believe we are body. So we go through life believing in things that are not true.
No, we are body. There is no serious dispute about this amoung people who actually know what they're talking about. Every single aspect of human experience can be accounted for by body functions.
@@robokill387 Love is not physical. Mind is not physical. We are spirit, tuned by a body like a signal is tuned by a radio.
When the radio is destroyed, is the signal also destroyed?
No, we are not body, but you are free to believe what ever you want to.
We are also not belief. I know this is true because my "beliefs" have changed over time.