The Stupidest Statement In Motorcycling | The Shop Manual
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- Опубліковано 4 жов 2024
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After crashes, you may have heard other riders say they "had to lay it down" to avoid an even more dangerous situation. In this episode of The Shop Manual, Ari busts the "hadda lay 'er down" myth with some help from controlled crash expert and Hollywood stunt double Tom McComas.
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I made a mistake... And I had to lay it down
@@awalmmahmed1795 Hahaha ... I love it! LOL
I remember this 'had to lay it down' claim being made back when I started learning to ride 28 years ago... and the old saw is still being used. Thanks for calling it out!
See it all the time in Texas half the riders here stay on the right foot stop and go or hold the front brake more often than normal
@@awalmmahmed1795
😅😅😂
"I had to lay her down" is what people say when they have a near miss, but manage to crash anyway.
Classic "Oh Sh*t" reaction
Ha! That’s about right.
lolololol. Best. 😂
😅 I love this
Survival reactions
“I had to layer down” is actually incredibly helpful information, because it immediately lets you know to ignore literally anything that person says after that point since they’ve demonstrated they’re an idiot.
haddalayerdown
I did not even know this is phrase exists but now that's exactly what I'd do after hearing it.
I had to layer down once, simply way too much clothing for such a warm day.
Yup, I totally agree. “I had to lay her down” and “Loud pipes save lives” immediately disqualify someone from a reasonable discussion.
@@RG-500 "Loud pipes save lives" the one that I heard too many times from the people who crash so oftenly
Ari.... Best explanation of "I ran outta talent" I have heard. I am a professional motorcycle safety trainer, and have had this rationale delivered to me many times. Thanks for steering away from panic reaction, and towards practice and training. Well done, sir!
Hey Ari! Could your next shop manual episode tackle the common noises motorcycles make and which ones we should be mindful of? As a new rider, it can be quite difficult to recognize if something's wrong woth the bike by sound alone. Something experienced mechanics are really good at.
Thats an interesting topic actually 🤔
Just treat noises like a car
They're pretty much the same thing. The cam tensioner might rattle a bit but just tighten it a lil. Lifters tick, rods knock, pistons clap... just like a beat up car. If the engine isn't worn tf out then you won't hear the noises. And get a repair manual for the bike. Will save you a lot of questions 💪🏾
@@Dwit2EEs The thing is, I'm new to riding bikes and working on my own bike is not my strongest suit.
I'm a heart surgeon. That's like me telling you:
"They're pretty much the same thing. Your chest might hurt a bit but just take a pill. Hearts beat, lungs take in air, blood circulates...just like an old man. If the body isn't worn tf out you won't feel a lot of pain. And get an anatomy book. Will save you a lot of questions.
See my point? I'm a beginner and I wanna learn.
This! I was hearing a weird grinding noise coming from my rear brake whenever I came to a slow stop. Took it to a shop and they said everything was totally fine. I definitely want to know more about which noises are normal or not
YES.
I've heard this lie in certain motorcycle circle more than others. I'm not naming any names, but in my experience the number of "had to lay her down" stories is directly proportional to the amount of chrome on the bike.
Yeah, handlebar tassel crowd too. 😉
INVERSELY proportional.
@@SoloPilot6 No, proportional. Boomers, chrome, and weird old myths and sayings all go hand-in-hand.
@@SqueakyNeb But every time he lays it down, there is LESS chrome. Thus, inversely proportional.
@@SoloPilot6 It took me a second too…😂
Im a riding instructor, this is what 90% of riders aren’t ready to hear.
Thanks Ari for clearing the air.
I’d say 90% of riders are ready to hear it. What make soyu think they aren’t?
Yeah you missed out you ride a GS 😁😁
that problem goes even further, 90% or more are not capable to own up to their mistake
UA-cam SEARCH "Had to Lay Her Down - The MYTH of Rider Error in Motorcycle Crashes" just put that out a few days ago?
Even the examples he showed were people jumping off bikes on fire/without brakes without laying the bike down. The only actual example of haddalayerdown ive seen is Marc Marquez Mugello 2013 FP1 wehre he had to lay it down at 210mph or face potential death. Other than that, its all just bad riders managing to turn a near miss into a crash.
As a MC instructor, I used to have a rubber puck and a metal puck. I would use them to show that you can stop a LOT faster on rubber than metal. I also mention to my students that, as you mentioned, we ,just practise our emergency braking and swerving so that we can stop our bike as quickly as possible. As I tell students, we may not always be able to avoid a collision but with our practised skills , the collision will hurt a lot less at 10mph rather than at 40 or 50mph.
How about 150 mph how much will it hurt then.
The fact is here in Australia and the rest of the world most motorcycle accidents especially ones involving sports bikes are failure to take the corner and smidys, even the best riders can't wash off speed when travelling that quick let alone the idiots we see with little experience riding powerful sports bikes.
The problem isn't how you part company with the bike but how you were riding initially, and for a fool if he can manage to shed some speed then drop the bike he may live to ride again.
The "layer down" phrase has its usefulness. It's one of those key things I listen for when swapping biker stories with potential riding buddies that immediately tells me I should avoid group rides with that particular person.
That and talking about practicing figure 8s in a box and see if they have a confused look on their face or their eyes immediately glaze over. All the folks I ride with get absolutely competitive about how tight a slow-speed turning radius they can manage on a big bore bike.
You're so right. People will freely tell you they are bad riders, but they use code for it.
I ride fast, but slow is where it is at. Control that beast at full lock, feet up stopping, weight shifting at idle. Always lots to learn
@@FXFBS23 💯 . Two of my riding buddies are MSF instructors and we routinely get into parking lot drill challenges.
Had to lay her down? I’m doing anything and everything to NOT lay her down 😂🤣
It's kind of the number one rule of motorcycling..
The only time I've seen someone lay er down for a good reason was to slide under a wire hung across a dirt road that wasn't visible from a distance. It was actually extremely impressive.
I had to do that once slow speed did not see a wire in a parking lot-scary.
did this once on dirt on a mini bike. thought there was a hole in the fence, and it was just all the lower stuff. Top cross was still there, and it was not fun on dirt at low speed, so i would not really like to see that on street at all.
I had to stabbed my brakes as hard as I could and crash or else instead of a small cut on my neck it would be a lot worst. Some sicko decided to thread a glass thread (use in competitive kite flying here) between two pillars overpass.
Had that happen to me.
Holy sht. Impressive on the rider and disgusting on the psycho who set that wire.
"I had to lay it down" is prong #2 of the Gas Station Trifecta, the three statements you hear when you're filling up and some guy approaches and talks about motorcycles.
*_"I used to own a __________"_* = I used to own a __________.
*_"I had to lay it down"_* = I panicked and totaled said __________.
*_"I quit riding when I got married"_* = My wife controls the money and refused to let me buy another bike after I panicked and totaled said __________.
☝ No greater truth has been spoken
@@lees907 My wife has a similar, albeit more expensive, condition. If I get a new bike then so does she. I did manage to talk her into not getting a new one when I traded one bike in for another.
; please explain the 1st one
@@user-gdxt-7399 he's basically saying the only thing truthful he said was that he used to own a bike.
Whats special about Sept 14th?
My MSF instructor several years back covered this very topic as a teaching point and mentioned that exact phrase. He solidified in everyone’s minds that there’s always a better option than laying it down. Glad you guys covered the topic too.
As a retired police officer that has heard countless idiots claim "I had to lay 'er down", and as an expert-licensed motorcycle road racer and motorcycle road racing instructor, I call B.S.. It's a LIE that they make up AFTER they crash themselves out because they didn't actually know how to ride, and because they didn't know how to ride, they had no idea how they ended up on the ground.
I find it more funny than anything. “WHET LEAVES ON THE GROUND SO IHADDALAYERDOWN”
Sooo much truth in this.
I've been hearing it (mainly from the HD crowd) for years, and yeah, the line usually fits in with the equally WTF theory of "the front brake will just get you killed". So many myths and so much misinformation still perpetuated in motorcycling it's bizarre.
I've never heard it live from anyone ever in a decade, between RC/MC members and mostly every other category of rider.
I'm not from the US tho, nor have I spoken to many US riders. It's anecdotal of course, but may be some credit to the idea that it's more of a regional thing?
Misinformation is however abundant, especially from those who have pseudo-experience like a lot of miles driven, and who aren't honest about lack thereof.
@@ThaSideWeed I've heard it quite a few times over the years in Australia. I usually say "you mean you crashed", some people admit it but some get really shitty when called out, l just laugh and avoid riding anywhere near them.
Absolutely. It's almost always from the HD crowd. (not to generalize, but I am sure you know the type I am talking about)
@@ThaSideWeed Most countries have a much more developed driver (and rider) education program than we have in the States, many US riders that have their endorsement don't even take any rider training classes, they just take the exam and off they go. I took a 2-day comprehensive Motorcycle Safety Foundation course, which is optional of course, but I found the skills to be extremely useful and I feel like it should be mandatory for anyone getting their endorsement.
Its understandble from HD riders since the brakes on those are pretty much shit anyway. You'd probably be better off bailing.
I had to lay it down to watch this video.
The Canadian version of this is "I hit some Black ice" it wasn't their fault they were on their cell phone or driving on bald summer tires, it was the impossible to control ice of dooooom that spins cars into the ditch the moment you touch it (on 4 contact patches no less!)
Especially since at a steady speed on a straight flat road, nothing happens if you lose traction - you just continue in a straight line.
@@questioner1596 Its amazing how often you see people in the ditch on straight sections of road. We've hit full -20c winter here in Calgary, every year you see how bad it gets when winter hits. California (L.A. anyways), light rain, people don't even leave their houses
@@Kingsoupturbo, I live in northern Manitoba, and on icy mornings we all seem to make it to work before the roads get salted, but on Saturday mornings we usually see several in the ditch because the drunk people can't handle a little ice. My point is that with a little understanding of physics, some reaction time and presence of mind, it's quite easy to stay on a slippery road.
I'm 75; at age 17 I learned on a '47 WL with my father instructing. The bike was his old ride as a motor officer, left hand throttle etc. He used to say that if you have a "near miss" you weren't paying attention.
I've had several refresher courses over the years, helps undo bad habits that seem to just develop. At one class, during a break, one of the students mentioned that he had just gotten his bike out of the shop after having "to lay it down". I walked away. Another "old timer" looked at me with a knowing look...an accident looking for a place to happen.
Thanks Ari, another reminder I needed.
Personally, I find it easier to lock up the back wheel, bring the rear round and get it to get grip at just the right moment to throw me OVER what has just pulled out. (All deliberately, of course)
I prefer to pop the clutch and pull a sweet nooner to drive up and over what I'm about to crash into, then pull my drag chute (because I'm also a professional drag racer) to float gently to the ground.
@@quinnkirlew9892 Nope. Despite signing up for that course, thanks to my dyslexia, I’m still not qualified for that sort of manoeuvre.
On the plus side, professional drag artist pays much better than I’d of imagined!
My skill isn’t as good, as I just started riding. But Scotty Kilmer says if I gotta lay it down, I should try to get on top of the bike, and ride it like a surfboard
Oh yes, the tried and true "ejection" method of escaping an accident. Works well for fighter planes :D
this thread is evolving hilariously!!! lol
You wouldn’t believe it I met an older man today on my ride out. He was admiring my bike and we started talking. He was 87 and he was telling me about the bikes he had here in Australia 🇦🇺 in the late 1950’s. Lovely old gentleman was getting excited about how at that time going 100 mph (160 kilometres per hour) was a big feat. I said to him that my previous bike was a Hayabusa and that it was capable of basically twice that speed. He was astounded of course, but went on to say that his father had taught him some skills (apparently he rode as well) regarding “laying it down” if the going got tough or an accident was inevitable. I had to laugh ( inside myself) as I just watched your video a day or two ago. I didnt think it necessary to point the facts about it, and left this memory ( I am sure good in his eyes) with him. Just saying.....
Thanks for the video 👍
I suspect the origin of this saying had its beginnings in a time of shitty rear brake only bikes on mostly dirt roads.
It was taught to dispatch riders in WW2 as well.
Gunfire of course is a different priority.
Grew up on stories of exceeding the old 'ton' on Triumphs and various other Brit bikes of around the same vintage you speak of from older relatives, male and female.
The 'fast' set here in Oz rode British back then.
No one ever told me they had to lay er down though.
They were suspicious of that front brake though.
The bikes they were riding back then were primitive compared with even the cheapest bikes today. I dont think you realise just how crude bikes were back in the 50s, tyres were rags, suspension was a joke, brakes were optional if they worked at all. 'Laying a bike down' and taking a slide was probably a pretty good option, especially if it was a dirt road, like most were back then in this country
“I call bull****.”
As I’m taking a drink of coffee, start to laugh, and the coffee goes down wrong.
Thanks Ari.
You didn't choke, you just laid the coffee down.
@@MinnesotaNice763 🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@MinnesotaNice763 well done Sir. 😂😂😂
You didn't _pour_ coffee on your keyboard....you violently ejected coffee from your mouth loudly all over the keyboard.
Thankfully only laid down my bike twice, and both times were my fault. The first was when I was on my learners permit, and I pushed into a corner a bit harder than I usually would, ran over a stick on the road with the front tyre and got lowsided. The second one was just after I switched from a sports bike to a cruiser. I was leaving a friends place who had a steep driveway with a 90 degree bend just after I got moving. Muscle memory was still there for the sports bike, so my feet weren't far enough forward when I went for the floorboards, I clipped the up shift (rocker shifter), popping the bike into neutral as I started to turn. The bike stopped, and was leaning too far for me to catch, and decided it wanted to lay on its side. I've since corrected that muscle memory so I don't repeat that mistake.
Fabulous and important video. Thanks for posting this Ari. Riding schools teach techniques for crash avoidance. If you ride and have not taken a course, it's a great idea to sign up. If you have taken courses, there is always more to learn. Look for a different course. They are always fun and a great use of time. Besides, riding school is usually lower cost than the deductible to repair your "laid down" bike.
Last year, no kidding, I heard the President of the local ABATE tell me, in all seriousness, that helmets are dangerous. "Had to lay her down" might be number two. Good vid, thanks for posting.
When I hear anyone saying "I had to lay it down" when discussing an accident, their riding ability is immediately questioned...
And when they just say: "I crashed", we all just naturally go on to the learning mode of "what happened?" instead of questioning their riding ability. "Had to lay it down just really doesn't need to exist as a phrase, it offers nothing to anyone. People who hear it immediately think its BS and people who say it don't learn anything because they think they were in control of their problem and therefore they did the best that anyone could in that situation.
@@lacrossev They were in control of their problem, but the are to insecure to admit they made a mistake.
But they _HAD_ to.
They plum ran out of talent and there was no choice left.
About time someone addressed this bit of B.S. On hearing “I had to lay it down” I usually interject “tell the truth, you fell over”. If you’re going to tell a fish story make it believable, don’t start w/ “I hooked a mermaid “.
ok 2:51 had me legit LOLing. I agree with this 100%. I am an MSF rider coach here in NJ and I always tell my students that if you are going to have an impact. get as slow as possible before it. this is done with solid progressive braking skills and staying in control of the bike as long as possible.
filming that part had to be a pain in the ass.
@@Black70Fastback how the heck did they film it anyway?
@@noob2x I assumed it was stop motion
Yes! That was great showing the slow motion slide.
As i stated on here before i believe there is a place for laying the bike down to save your life.
The first thing I will say here is most of you have never ridden high powered worked seventies bikes such as the Z1 which made 160 hp or more and 10.2 quarter mile times in the seventies.
Then you consider these things had no real brakes and people rode them at very high speeds here in Australia.
I had a friend with one in 1978 doing over 200 kmh in the metro that's the real problem crash into a semi and he was killed, now if he had tried what you suggest he was still dead but I believe if he had layed it down he would still be with us today.
I wasn't ready for that scream at 2:52 , fn hysterical...set me on a laugh-coughing fit
Hooray - glad someone's finally said this. It's not really a phrase you hear much of here in the UK, but it always just seems like a macho translation of 'I crashed'.
Yes, I have heard bar stool pub bikers come out with this phrase. My first question to them is 'Did you run out of road?' As they are just about to come up with a tale of skillful heroism I simply reply ' You mean you ran out of ability '. I have been riding for 40 years and I've been down the road a few times and been hurt, but that was due to youthful over enthusiasm. The last time was in 1986. Since then my bikes and body remain unscarred, I still ride big bikes as fast as it is prudent to do so ,get the adrenaline flowing, not the diarrhoea!
yeah, so my wife was practicing on my motorcycle and for some reason locked eyes with me instead of where she was going when ALL OF A SUDDEN a curb jumped out in front of her! In order to save the lives of all the school children riding to work that day in the curb, she bravely and gently laid the bike down by grabbing as much front brake as humanly possible for someone of her small stature.
This is the story of why I now have to use the clutch with two fingers since half the lever is missing and have discomfort in my left foot because the peg will never be the same shape again that it ever was.
I've been riding for over 40 years and have been extremely lucky to never "had to lay it down" except in a parking lot. The bike was not moving or even running. I was getting on it and my passenger jumped on at the same time. The bike leaned too far and I bailed! Lesson learned. 😄
I swear parking lots are one of the most dangerous places. The other night after a long shift with little sleep I went to the store and getting off my bike I somehow managed to forget the kickstand and stumbled a little before catching my footing again. This will be my 3rd year riding so it was a little embarrassing but oh well.
Ari is hands down my favorite person to watch when it comes to motorcycle anything. Even over Fortnine….
A dude once told me he had to lay it down because the car in front of him slammed on the brakes and he went on his brakes but ABS engaged and he knew he would smack into the back of the car so he decided that it's better to slide into it than to crash into it so he dropped tje bike and ultimately did not slide into the car. At the time I was fairly new, and I didn't really believe him but I wasn't exactly sure how to question him on it. However a few weeks go by and he gets his bike back from the shop, I take a good look at it and I told him, your bike doesn't have ABS. He then tried to tell me that I remembered his story wrong and made up an entirely different story about how he had to lay it down.
Agree 1000%, been saying EVERYTHING mentioned in this video for YEARS. It is wonderful to see such an eloquent video produced, and even better to have the corroboration with Tom McComas to lend validity to the argument.
Awesome job.
Had to lay er down bud
Well done cinematography.
I’ve been riding for 9 years. I’ve gone through 4 bikes. The only time I’ve ever said, “I had to lay my bike down” was during my early days of riding when I dropped my bike at a red light or at a stand still and tried my best to keep my bike from leaning over too much, but after a certain point I had to let it go.
Yeah, that's my biggest problem at this point. I've been riding for 3 years. For two of them I was on a scooter from 1985 and 1 of them a 250cc chopper, both are pretty low seat heights so since I got my first "Proper" bike(2011 BMW F650GS) a month ago I am struggling with the height and weight of the bike when doing u-turns, backing up downhill/on uneven terrain and the "stop and go" of traffic. So for me I had to "lay her down" when practicing these thing a couple times simply because at a certain point I couldn't keep the bike up anymore. But to characterize an on-the-road accident where you made a mistake as not having a choice in the matter makes you seem insecure.
@@1simp695 the weight of a tall bike is hard to get used to. It'll probably take you at least 1000 miles in the seat to get used to it. Some tips:
If you have any room to adjust your clutch find what works best for you, clutch play is huge on slow speed maneuvers. Keep the speed up and counterweight!
Also if you're staying on the bike centered and like tip toeing it, get used to sliding your butt off the seat- keep foot on brake, but only have your leg swung over. Get your other foot planted solidly on the ground.
Another thing to practice that could help you get used to the weight of the bike and where the balance point is... Practice dismounting without using the kickstand. Hold the balance while you're swinging your leg off or on. I never had the confidence to do this with my heavy street bikes, then I had to learn how to do it with my track bike... Now I can do it on my street bikes easily (just need to mentally prepare for the extra weight).
That is called "dropping"
Brilliant sponsor. Knives that last forever!!!! Great video. We need to accept our mistakes.
its between that and 'loud pipes save lives' for dumbest statement.
I live in LA and when everyone is paying more attention to their phones than the road in downtown, loud pipes definitely save lives. I have 4 bikes and only my sport bike has stock exhaust and there is a very noticeable difference. Here where lane-splitting and filtering is legal and encouraged, it is more dangerous on city streets vs the highway. That said, I would have to agree with you when it comes to the highway. Most people drive with their windows up and with highway speeds, wind velocity and modern well-insulated vehicles they will not hear your loud pipes but in down town Los Angeles where everyone is texting or staring at their GPS doing door dash, loud pipes absolutely make a difference.
I worked at a motorcycle shop last year and heard many stories of "a car pulled out in front of me so I had to lay it down" yes this is BS. Most of them also wore a t-shirt and shorts while riding. The rider really just never learned how to stop in an emergency. Most of them were new riders and blame the car. Was the car hiding behind a tree and then all of a sudden they were in front of you? There are 2 factors here 1; you were not paying attention and 2; you never learned to stop fast. Locking up one or both brakes will make you lay it down but it won't slow you down. Staying on the bike and using the brakes correctly is your safest way to avoid the crash. Watch for cars because they are not looking for you.
I had someone say this to me once. I smiled and nodded, I just wanted to pay for my food and leave.
"I had a motorcycle once!" no1currrrrrr
@@Hansengineering then proceeds to bullshit about it being too dangerous for them now, like ok bud don't care.
@@user-yk9sz9mh1t exactly. The only dude I am fine with hearing his "used to do" stories rode the HELL out of bikes. He's into the high 20s on models ridden/owned. He and his wife both stopped riding when they had kids. It wasn't a singular event, it was a mutual decision arrived at after evaluating decades of ride experience.
"Everything it's left to physics" is the correct way to say it, chance is less of a factor. Yes, I sometimes get to be a control freak.
As someone who came off literally the day before you uploaded this due to lack of attention on my part, the "I made a mistake" reassurance is quite a loving touch.
I overdid a corner, 50mph when for my ability I should've been doing 30 max. Luckily all good but it's nice to know that mistakes happen
I am so happy that decades after my first ride, people are openly calling BS on this line, which to me stank of it when I first put a helmet on my teenage head.
It simply never made sense to me.
When I crashed i didnt lay the bike down, the bike laid me down
Same here. Dude in the car that cut me off laid my bike down for me and almost killed me.
Totally agree that laying it down a road bike to avoid an incident is the last resort!
On the dirt it is the same.
Case in point- some 40 years ago I was following a mate, at speed, on the dirt when he stopped his car before a creek, I didn't see it coming and had no good options. My bad!
I dropped my bike on its side and slid under the back of the car.
The result was some scratches on the bike and a sore knee for me, but it all ended well.
On the road I've seen several instances of riders panicking, locking brakes and crashing, when some considered use of brakes and some situational awareness would have resulted in no accident.
Many accidents on the road are due to no situational awareness, lack of rider training and the thinking that it's all good and its not going to happen to me!
I’d say the one *possible* exception to this is dirtbiking, and it’s less of a lay down than an ejection. Often to avoid going over a cliff or back down a hill you just climbed, and usually once a crash has already started.
yep
He covered some other reasonable exceptions as well. The bike being on fire was a good one.
@@kBIT01Pfff… only fair-weather weekend riders ditch their bike just because it’s on fire! 😂 Just think of it as “heated grips, seat… tank… fenders…” and keep riding through the winter! 😅
That saying, like hanging a nut sac from your truck's hitch is an indicator I will never be their friend...
I did it. I took off from the light in the right lane raced two lanes to the left only to find the street curved right with a high curb on the left. I started to lean right but panicked and jumped off thinking I couldn’t lean it over that far without falling over the curb to oncoming traffic. I’ve since had lessons. 😁
simmilar thing happened to me. the second day after getting my license went into a corner fast and felt my toes touch the pavement then the side of my foot then the footpeg started to fold back. i swear my ass was clenched so hard you could make diamonds in there. deffinitaion of death grip then the corner ended, pulled off and consitered picking up a different hobby. changed my foot and body position, and got rid of those stupid lean indicator bolts on the bottom of the pegs, and some bike changes to get it higher off the ground for more clearance there and kept haveing fun.
If you haven't taken a motorcycle course I would. Even if you have, they usually have more advanced courses you can take. Its always good to have practical practice in a controlled environment even seasoned riders could use refreshers on occasion.
I've had two cars with drivers looking at screens turn directly into me (not "seeing me") while traveling in the opposite direction. If I wouldn't have spent my formative years on motocross bikes (or wasn't on something nimble - FZ07) I'd be dead (twice). There literally are moments when a car going in the opposite direction, turning left into you, gives you VERY few options. But you always have options if you stay on the bike. Practice them, and them practice them some more. Your life may one day depend on it.
Tbh I don't think you can practice situation like that apart trying to brake as hard as you can in straight and to try to turn quite sharp in speeds. Latter is almost impossible to train safely, meaning to extent what is needed in such situations you mention. What can save you much more likely is to try to expect that stuff like can and likely will happen. Meaning if you drop speed even by 10 on such possible situations, like intersections areas with oncoming traffic will increase possibility to brake speed enough to lessen collision damage tenfolds or avoid situation alltogether. Always remember laws of physics. Double your speed = Quadruple your braking distance. That's just the way it is.
A friend was in an accident where he said he "laid the bike down". But being the a$$hole friends that we are, always re-tell the story with the "had to" part added.
I've got some asshole friends like that... When one of the guys would sheepishly admit to "laying down" a bike, we knew he dropped it... AND the guys (with or without me) would add that "had to" bit in retelling... When I had an incident, I just beat them to it, "I just decided it was time to lay her down."
Enter the guffaws...
Whatever you're gonna say after a mess, they're going to HEAR "I f**ked up" anyways... You might as well make it funny when you tell it. ;o)
"I hadda lay er down wit ol Barb on da back cuz of da dam glass clibbins in da road!"
is how it's said in my area. 😂
I love how you used the bent frame cbr300 as a crash prop!
Back in 1980 when I took the basic motorcycle safety class 'laying it down' was part of the taught criteria. We got to watch a film of some guy being distracted by a girl, and laying it down to avoid hitting the back of a car. Later, during the range exercise we go to go into the high school's long-jump landing area and skid the back tire in the sand. The instructor considered this to be BS (he was pretty skeptical as I recall), but it was part of the class and we had to do it. I was on a Honda Twinstar at the time, and riding in sand on that bike was a big enough challenge (200cc and geared really tall). Thankfully they don't teach that anymore.
CLIBBINS! GOBBLESS!
Thanks Revzilla! One of the best videos I’ve ever seen on motorcycles! There’s so much BS and machismo going around, it was truly refreshing to see someone who knows something - and a Hollywood pro - call it what it is. This may have implications far and wider than this video!!!! Great job!
Glad you appreciate it! Now everyone has a video link to send to that friends that "had to lay it down."
When I was starting out and heard that phrase I thought it really meant laying it down, which happened to me a few times. I'm very short legged so I can only one foot my bikes at stops and if the terrain is complicated sometimes the bike ends up at such an angle that I cannot hold it upright anymore and I have to lay it down. I don't drop the bike, I control the descent so I can then completely get off and pick it up.
While that can and will happen, that's not what most people mean with that phrase. I had that happen at a railroad crossing, with a "fun" combo of a steep drop off to the gutter and gravel. Good times!
I did that with a KLR one time. That's called the infamous parking lot drop.
When I was stationed in Hawaii I lived in a house that was part of a dude ranch that had gone bankrupt...anyway, to reach it you had to go down a dirt road about a mile and a half.
Except it wasn't dirt.
It was thus gawdawful ground coral that turned into the splipperiest substance I have ever encountered.
I was just creeping through it and the bike would just slide ride out from under me.
I'd half to get off push it back up by the bars and slog a little further each time.
Then I noticed why it was so hard to keep upright.
The clay/mud/concrete had build up between the front tire and fender to where the tire wouldn't turn anymore and was just plowing through the muck.
Finally got home and spent a solid hour with a hose and a big screwdriver getting the mud off it.
Mentioned this to a neighbor and he said no one took that road when it rained - they cut through the golf course next door.
2:50 -- Ari and the bike "sliding" across the ground with that scream in the background made me spit out a little beer.
I thought Thomas was gonna be Ari wearing a mustache and a evel knievel jacket.
And open faced white helmet.
"Learn by your mistakes" even when you think it was the other parties fault, was a lesson I was taught nearly 40 years ago by an instructor I knew. A car pulled out while I was overtaking it, as far as insurance goes totally their fault, the police weren't involved, but I'm sure they would also blamed the driver.
However when I spoke to this instructor, he said "what could have you done to avoid it", at first I just kept saying it was the drivers fault, but as we spoke more about it and he explained his remark, I realised, I could have done more to avoid being in a collision, and its not much consolation being in the right, when your bike is wrecked, your gear is wreck and you're injured.
After a decade as a motor cop I learned that far too many motorcycle riders won’t take 5min to better themselves on their bikes but would love to tell you how they went 150mph. Nothing but a hazard to their own welfare. Ten tons of confidence and an ounce of skill and ability.
That reminds me of the trick I did as a kid on my bicycle with coaster brakes, the skid turn… In my practice of emergency braking my non ABS motorcycle, I feel the squirm of the rear tire when it becomes locked… From my experience it’s perfectly rideable, no need to lay anything down.
The only time i've laid down my bike i honestly thought for 2 weeks that it was the loose gravel on a turning lane. After seeing an DDFM video i realized it was because i grabbed the front break too hard and locked it up. Now that i know what i did, i'm a better rider and i can pass this onto new riders.
I've seen exactly one case of "laying'er down" actually helping and it was actually guy that ended up sliding mostly underneath a jacked up pickup that was uturning in a blind corner. However the guy admits that the laying down was just him locking his front wheel up and dumping the bike by accident rather than an intentional life-saving maneuver. Still broke an ankle and wrist too.
I was going off the side of a hill on a dirt road with no possibility of stopping. It was either slide off the hill with the bike in front of me or go head first over into a steep rocky slope.
My Man!!! I was literally thinking about Vinales bailing out at 290kmph at the start of the video and you had it all set for an example. Here in @india we don't bail out but definitely mess ourselves up while trying to save a pedestrian or a stray dog 😜
Tom touched on it, mentioning the rider locking the rear brake, and the bike sliding-out to one side or the other. Most roadways are crowned to some degree, for water drainage. This slope is usually too small for us to see, but it's there. When someone locks the rear brake, that locked rear tire will slide downslope, until like Tom said, the bike has reached an angle where hard parts are now touching. The classic "laid 'er down" crash.
If the rider releases the rear brake during this slide, and the rear tire is still upright enough, it will start rolling, causing an immediate "high side" crash, because bike and rider are traveling in two distinctly different directions.
Around here, a lot of cruiser *cough* Harley *cough* riders use this as an excuse all the time. No shade towards Harley guys, but own up to your mistakes. I "had to lay down" my first bike(a supermoto) and said that same thing when I was an inexperienced rider. I didn't have a way to avoid my wreck, but I still played macho about it and used this excuse. I learned later that I should have just taken responsibility for being a lower skilled rider.
Now I've gotten a lot better and was even offered an instructor role in MSF classes being held at my state capital. It takes a ton of practice, but it can absolutely save your life to not just be a throttle twisting meathead.
Oh I'll say it. Harley guys are a problem and I wish they would ride less.
One day I hope to be as cool as you two guys.
@@StoneE4 😂😂😂😂
@@StoneE4 Buddy, you are welcome to do whatever you like.
Correct.
Somebody needed to say this. “Lay it down” was the most nerve wracking statement I heard when I started riding.
Ari’s really layin’ it down in this video.
The closest I ever got to laying it down was when I wasn't paying attention at a gas pump, forgot the kick stand, and just keeled over.
A great way to get the most confused face out of someone reciting their greatest lay down incident. I ask "Oh, your front brakes gave out?" and the most common response is "What? No!" and a confused raised eyebrow. Finish off with "Oh, okay..." and let the awkward silence just oooooooooze.
Excellent video Ari! I want to bang my head into the wall every time that I hear this phrase and you absolutely nailed it. Well done. You always have more control with rubber on the road than sliding along. It is as simple as that.
Well done Ari and Tom. I’ve heard that BS way too many times. This lays it all out. ;)
Then stop saying it, brotha
@@Dranreb865 ?
In 46 years, I have only seen "I had to lay it down" once be true, and that was a truck that had pulled out on a biker, who laid it down and skidded under the trailer out the other side, she got a broken leg for her trouble, but at least she did not face plant the trailer.
3:36 ha jokes on you that move of “putting it down” as described by your guy sounds a lot like one of the few tricks a inexperienced heavy cruiser rider and pull off with ease
Thanks for posting this. I couldn't even count the number of times I've heard someone say this stupid phrase. I usually reply with something like, "Hmm, in my 40+ years of riding, I've never had to lay it down." They always call me lucky then.😆
bro, my body on the pavement stops me faster than the brakes 😎 trust me bro 😎😹😹😂😂
☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️
A friend of mine was riding at the speed limit of 70mph, when a VW camper travelling in the opposite direction suddenly, without any indication, turned right, placing it broadside across his lane!
Without hesitation, he departed his Yamaha RD400E, which proceeded to punch its way through the left side of the camper before bulging out the right side as it came to a stop!
He picked himself up, unharmed, and inspected what had been his beloved motorcycle.
The traffic police agreed with him that had he not departed from his motorcycle, he would have sustained fatal injuries.
I think it was the late 1970's that the US publication Cycle Magazine carried an article about when it becomes necessary to abandon ship and depart one's motorcycle in order to avoid extremely serious or fatal injuries.
We Despatch Riders discussed this in great detail, as it wasn't something we'd previously thought of.
We learned from that article, and some of us are still alive because we learned...
LOOK OUT FER CLIBBINS HOSS
Well I've never heard anyone say "I had to lay it down", but I've definitely heard "Hadalayerdown". And if someone says that to you, the most entertaining thing to ask is "Did you have ABS brakes?".
I hit a deer this sumer and I literally laugh when people ask if I had to lay it down. No, I applied as much pressure to my breaks as possibly made contact with that deer, knocked that dear over, because I was incontrol I road over that dear and the only thing damaged was from the shit in my drawers 🤣🤣 pulled over did a quick check and road home. They look on there face is usually priceless because ironically there usually the ones who say a 135 pound man (me) is not big enough to handle a roadking.
Also the people who try to degrade me for practicing slow speed maneuvering and braking in parking lots, and yes drop my bike on occasion while doing so. That's the place to do it, not on the road
It was the third lap of a 5 lap motocross race. I jumped over a corner rather than go around it and thus crossed over ( while in the air ) the track marker tapes. A track marshall " black flagged " me so I lay to " lay her down " in order to run over the track marshall, while making it look like an accident. I sent him flying off his hay bale and didn't suffer a scratch to myself or my bike. One of my finer moments.
SPEAK UP LIBRUL, WHEN YOU COME ARCOSS SOME GRAS CLIBBINS IN THE ROAD THERE AINT NOTHING YOU CAN DO BUT LAYERDOWN
I really enjoyed the scene where you're talking about stopping distance (rubber tires) vs sliding distance (plastic and flesh), and then you slide across frame on a dumped bike, lol.....watched it a few times, lol...
Thanks, Ari. I've been calling BS on this for years. Its what people say when they are embarrassed by their crash.
This was a much needed clarification that no one else in the industry wanted to express so publicly.
Sometimes its easy to forget that a massive portion of the motorcycling community is drenched in testosterone supplements and bro culture. Well, not that easy when you're one of the only female riders you know.
Don't be sexist.
What's different when you're a female motorcyclist? Not to hate or joke, it's a genuine question.
As if on cue the replies here have made my point for me.
I honestly wanted to know. I don't meet a lot of women riders.
@@gokulkrishm51 Who knows.... I guess the idea that it's hard to admit a mistake and you'd rather sugar-coat or lie about it is gender-related. I don't think the point of the comment was to elicit a discussion.
I've been riding various types of motorcycles for 33 years. Never have I intentionally laid one down.
The full phrase should be "I had to lay her down...because I was out of control and had no choice in the matter."
I had to do something because I mistakenly put myself in a situation where I had no time to think or react and lost control of the situation.
I remember when I was new to motorcycling (riding a Ninja 250). The front washed out on some low speed turning, while practicing. It was indeed a mistake, the bike laid itself down because of my error. My ego was indeed hurt but the knowledge I gained from it was so valuable…
I now know I don’t wanna dump it again, lol 😅
Excellent episode!
I had an accident in 2018 from applying to much back break. A friend said so you had to lay it down huh? I always told other riders what did wrong and how I learned from that mistake. I now practice proper break and warm up my skills every week or more if I have a long break from riding. Stay safe and practice.
I had to “LAY ‘ER DOWN” once. On the gas station forecourt when I rolled off the centre stand without having the side stand extended and attempted to swing the leg over which ended predictably with the bike and myself on the ground. I was laughing at my amateur dismount while a fellow rider walked over to lend assistance while shaking his head and also having a chuckle at my self imposed misfortune.
Nearly all the low-sides I have seen are from rear-brake skids. About half of those end up grabbing sideways, flipping the bike in a high-side. I once had a friend tell me about how he "slipped in the rain & dropped the bike on its side. When I saw the impact damage to the bike, I knew what he had done, a panic rear-brake-slide that high-sided. When you see a dented tank, smashed gauges & signals, bent handlebars, and broken fork-stops on the triple-tree, it was not just a low-side slide. He finally admitted what had actually happened about 30 years later, lol!
I've been saying this for so long now. Even told my rider friends how that phrase is stupid. It's so great that somebody else sees it too.
I always would chuckle a little when I hear this phrase. Wondered where it came from. Well as it turns out this used to be a technique taught to new motors officers with CHP way back in the 1960s or so. I took a class from the Alameda County SO who run several LE and non-LE motors courses. It was street level one. The two instructors were prior long time motors officers. On retired from OPD and one from CHP. They both had the same instructor in the mid 80s who was a long time CHP motors officer. I don't recall the name they gave but he explained it was actually part of his training as a new motor in the 1960s. It was done at 35 mph and they would ride the slide out with the bike (not trying to separate from it).
I can only assume that back then the brakes and tires were so much worse that sliding to a stop was somewhat effective by comparison. But maybe it was to practice a few of the but what if scenarios presented in the video.
So anyway I still chuckle when I hear about this unless it is from a very old rider who was riding all the way back in the 60s and 70s. Then I try to keep my laugh to myself because maybe they were actually aware that this was at one point considered a viable skill.
I once had a friend hide in a ditch behind trees on his four wheeler. As I approached on the road at speed, he abruptly pulled into my path as a "joke". I crashed when I ran out of skill trying to avoid him. Put another way, the abrupt directional change I needed to execute was cut short when I locked the wheels with the brakes. I low sided into the four wheeler, with no significant injuries except one friend with a broken thumb. I have skills now that would put my younger self to shame, but the real reason I'm better off is because I picked some new friends that make better decisions. Never once did I say "I had to lay it down".
There is only one time I can think of when I should have laid my bike down. I was riding on the 80 in the bay area and an accident had just happened around the bend but I wasn't able to see what happened. As I rounded the bend I saw some guy on the side of the freeway and I pulled over asked him what had happened. I couldn't hear what he said but before I knew it he had climbed on the back of my bike hollard at me to drive. I was actually in shock so when he told me to drive that's what I did. I had no idea what he was planning on doing but thankfully the exit was less than a quarter of a mile up the freeway. I stopped and he told me to keep going and just hopped off and walked away. Turns out he was in a hit and run and some other bystander was able to track him down when they told me what happened and I showed them where he went. I still wish I had dumped the bike but I was pretty scared.
Collectively I thought we all knew that the I had to lay it down story was a saving face in front of peers I had never considered someone took it seriously. Fun topic as always
Great comments on a subject that I have not thought too much about! Thanks for the wisdom.
Excellent article, calling it for what it is - keep it up!!