Neck tension is controlled more by annealing EVERY TIME before sizing. Neck turning is done ONCE with virgin brass. Anneal BEFORE sizing because it can cause a 'shift' in the brass if done after.
I deprime first, then clean in tumbler with stainless pins, then anneal the brass. Then I resize with a .002" bump. Annealing your brass will make your brass a lot longer
@Scott Satterlee @Long Range With The Lillys Just so you all know, I still come back to these videos and use them to verify and check data on my loads. I think this 3 part series (especially this particular episode) is one of the best on UA-cam. Thank you all again for putting this together and really going over the details of each step. My latest check-up is neck tension as I'm starting to load for 6.5CM. I actually just read the comment that says Scott doesn't clean the brass first and I know that irks some people lol! My buddy who got me into reloading does the same thing and he wins most of our local competitions. As the saying goes, "if it's not broke, don't fix it!"
Thank you so much for your feedback Tim! This means a lot to us that it has helped people! I’m about to start working up a 22GT from the bottom up and will be referring to them myself! - Kili
Have been reloading for years and only recently getting into long range paper and steel shooting. Also have a 6.5 PRC and appreciate the FACT that you are asking MY QUESTIONS for me! Huge difference in generic plinking reloads for my semi-auto .308 and now precision loads for the 6.5 PRC. Great job and fun to watch with my morning coffee! I also load on Dillon 550 for everything else BUT my 6.5 PRC because I have no confidence in the powder drop with extruded powders but just got the powder drop funnel so I can weigh each charge and make sure ALL the powder drops into the case each time before I advance the round. I'll also be neck-turning from now on too! Realizing this was only posted less than a week ago, I'm looking forward to the next load development and range day video with Scott Satterlee.
This is gold! I learned so much, but the most important thing is a new technical concept (14:42): whatever you do, DO NOT let the primer **pooch out** your measurements!
How could anyone give this great informative video a thumbs down? Especially 11 people? Not everyone gets first hand load development lesson from a master! I guess there right when they say opinions are like A*holes, or A*holes have opinions!!lol I guess I'm just one of them lol Great job great video, thanks for sharing!! Cant wait to watch part 2!
I decap, wash, anneal then resize and trim ... have taken a few classes with Scott at Rock Lake Range and found it interesting to bump the shouldnt and resize before annealing.
@Scott Satterlee I take a small rare earth magnet and stick it on the side of my press to hold the allen key for locking down my dies. Saves time searching for it on the bench, drawer, floor etc.
I setup my Hornady Match bushing die by raising the ram till it touches the shellholder, then lower the ram, then turn it ever so slightly clockwise until I feel a very slight camover when raising the ram again, w/o the case in the shelholder of course. Usually takes two slight turns and it's good.
My understanding from Scotts explanation was he anneals to get consistent neck tension Or as he put it it softens the brass to get better neck grip on bullet. I had this same question cause I anneal before sizing but this process seams simpler.
Everyone is focused on the annealing, I'm stuck on his 2000 pieces of brass for a rifle. Shocked at the expense, then realizing that once you have a load you dont have to tinker with it again as all the brass is the same. No changes or oopsies on a third or fourth firing.
@Scott Satterlee @Long Range With The Lillys, at the 15:00 minute mark, Scott says he FL resizes w/o the decapping stem and expander ball. I started using a universal decapping die first and then FL resize w/o the expander ball/ stem. I found my neck tension is exceedingly tight, to the point where you can see the base of the bullet bulge when seated in the neck of the loaded cartridge. Surely this cannot be the correct amount of bullet neck tension as this probably generates dangerously high chamber pressures. Is this correct?
Yes if you fl resize you have to reexpand the neck after. The FL resize will push the neck in. If you measure I’ll bet you’re way undersized. Both Scott and I run an expander mandrel in the next station to set neck tension.
@Scott Satterlee Hi. Thanks for video. 2 questions. Were the cases inspected for dents prior to adding lubrication? Were the cases lubed without cleaning? If so, do you notice dirtier dies with this methos? I noticed the cases were annealed after sizing and cleaning, are there any pros and cons to anneal after sizing? I always anneal prior to sizing every firing and find it produces better neck tension consistency.
Isn't it best practice to anneal before resizing to eliminate springback? I love this approach, especially with the progressive press to prep the brass
Did anyone catch whether Scott does a quick wash before decap, resize, mandrel process? It looks like he takes 1x fired brass straight to decapping, etc process.
I'm assuming he single loads every round. What if you want to load from the magazine for lets say PRS shooting? How do you go about determining the CBTO length or OAL? Thanks great series!
@@longrangewiththelillys1221 I doubt he does. Otherwise he wouldn't be wasting time experimenting with the bullet so close to the lands. Plus I didn't see him measuring the max OAL his mags allow so I doubt he loads from magazine
@@longrangewiththelillys1221 he does not. I watched all episodes before commenting. He has an empty magazine inserted to act as a shelf for the rounds he single loads into the action. Without a magazine inserted he would have to stick them all into the chamber or otherwise they fall through the mag well. Part 3 at 3:59 is an example of single loading. There are many more.
Mateus. He’s using MDT WSM magazines they hold 5 rounds of 6.5 PRC. He does pull from the box and single feed several times in the video. You’ll have to take my word for it that he does in fact shoot from a magazine, he just didn’t take the time to stuff a magazine in the segments we captured. The purpose of that rifle is the NRL Hunter series where it would be extremely detrimental to performance to single feed. As far as finding Mag capacity it’s just a matter of measuring the internal dimensions of the magazine and running a COAL that is less. This is not an issue for most PRS/NRL type cartridges. Thanks for the questions and we’re glad you liked the videos.
I was wondering the same thing...i always anneal before resizing. i was wondering there for a second if maybe he knew some voodoo that I have never heard.
@@timdixon4883 everyone does it their own way. I would assume that he is annealing after sizing to take the "work hardening" out of the brass from sizing. It CAN also help uniform neck tension by making the amount of spring back consistent. Watch Erik Cortina on UA-cam......he explains it way better than me
This is a great question for Scott. We have always annealed before resizing as well. Feel free to reach out to him via social media. We'll ask him to drop in here and answer this question as it's been asked a few times. Thanks for watching!
If you measure the outer diameter of the case after resizing and running through the mandrel you will have your starting number. After you load the bullet into the case you measure the outer diameter again. It should be a slightly larger number. The difference is your neck tension. Hope this helps! Thanks for watching!
@@longrangewiththelillys1221 if using a mandrel, wouldn’t you know neck tension even before seating the bullet. If your mandrel was .262 for a .264 bullet, you’d already know you were going to have .0020 neck tension... right?
We don’t use picked up range brass. If you are reloading for precision we recommend at a minimum you shoot brass from the same manufacturer and that you start with new brass.
You anneal after you resize? I was told the annealing process can change the shape (slightly) and you should anneal first then do all the sizing, shaping and trimming?
@@thompsonjerry3412 just having to shoot 10 rounds in under two minutes means the barrel is going to be heavy. then typically, weights are added to balance the gun in front of the mag well. PRS guns are not field guns.
I only recommend loading on a progressive press if you are an experienced reloader. Or if you have a good mentor. It does complicate the process. And I think you’re referring to hornady comparator gauges.
@@longrangewiththelillys1221 One other question. I like to tumble and anneal before brass prep for 2 reasons. 1) the brass could get deformed during tumbling or annealing (I use the bench-source annealer) 2) I like to run clean brass through my dies so as to minimize fouling in the dies. Am I missing something here that I really should be tumbling and annealing after brass prep, or am I fine to do both processes before?
ok @ long range with Lilly's ok i was invited to a pro NRA test firing for electronic targets, (it was a disaster i shot 3 rifles all were in same type group ok i had one rifle every bullet at 100 yards 5 shot group put a dime over it all one guy said no way so i did it again after it cooled I took rifle & locked it up) & waited they had the big give outs I was not in either group the guy at targets said he out shot all the winners with one rifle! no the guy said i saw it with like 4 others that's wrong! ( the NRA said i shot the same rifle like 7 time's ok i had 3 rifle's a savage edge 25-06 & Remington 788 in 22-250 & a (CZ-usa 550 American 6.5 x 55 i shot 10 shots all prefect scores how i loose the most you could get 2 times like back to back) it did not make sense to me! to me it bad sportsmanship on there part (i get calls and letter still asking for money and donation with the way this outfit went and did to me there lucky I still a NRA member!) it real bad a guy with bad right arm & screwed up shoulder & was made sick for over 30 years well in the military & forgot told i nutso & i really had blood cancer hidden over 30 years till the sample of(frozen blood) the man named in my sealed adoption as the closed relation to me! to se my real father! ps i was a ward of the state bought out by a adoption under odd rules like related to my mother & policeman & a add on asked by my real father all done in 1963 in court & approved! ( i found a paper from my adoption to a law-firm that handle it what is in there I asked the lawyer that took over the firm the guys son had the file on me ok it bad stuff but my real father asked and was approved threw the stepfather brother IE Uncle to my mother under medical DNA test to find what sickness i had- ok IT WAS BLOOD CANCER A 100% DEATH RATE CANCER TO WHO THE UNCLE TO MY MOTHER & ITS WAS FULLY CONTROLLED THREW TESTING ON HIM) it was same man who saw my real father in my adoption! I had a government military job in US air-force I went where I should have never gone all my records were sealed & few people knew or even looked! ( this is real bad for a man with firearms to go threw that mess & feel left out give award to other people that did worse then me)
Neck tension is controlled more by annealing EVERY TIME before sizing. Neck turning is done ONCE with virgin brass. Anneal BEFORE sizing because it can cause a 'shift' in the brass if done after.
lots of knowledge. that guy knows stuff.
Oh definitely knows stuff. And a great deal about things. I hope to know half the stuff and things some day
Yes he does!
I deprime first, then clean in tumbler with stainless pins, then anneal the brass. Then I resize with a .002" bump. Annealing your brass will make your brass a lot longer
Why not zero the caliper on the fired case shoulder? Bump to -.001or.002", should be golden.
@Scott Satterlee @Long Range With The Lillys Just so you all know, I still come back to these videos and use them to verify and check data on my loads. I think this 3 part series (especially this particular episode) is one of the best on UA-cam. Thank you all again for putting this together and really going over the details of each step. My latest check-up is neck tension as I'm starting to load for 6.5CM. I actually just read the comment that says Scott doesn't clean the brass first and I know that irks some people lol! My buddy who got me into reloading does the same thing and he wins most of our local competitions. As the saying goes, "if it's not broke, don't fix it!"
Thank you so much for your feedback Tim! This means a lot to us that it has helped people! I’m about to start working up a 22GT from the bottom up and will be referring to them myself! - Kili
Have been reloading for years and only recently getting into long range paper and steel shooting. Also have a 6.5 PRC and appreciate the FACT that you are asking MY QUESTIONS for me! Huge difference in generic plinking reloads for my semi-auto .308 and now precision loads for the 6.5 PRC. Great job and fun to watch with my morning coffee! I also load on Dillon 550 for everything else BUT my 6.5 PRC because I have no confidence in the powder drop with extruded powders but just got the powder drop funnel so I can weigh each charge and make sure ALL the powder drops into the case each time before I advance the round.
I'll also be neck-turning from now on too!
Realizing this was only posted less than a week ago, I'm looking forward to the next load development and range day video with Scott Satterlee.
Thank you for the feedback and coming on this journey and learning with us! This is the exact reason we are doing this series! - Kili
This is gold! I learned so much, but the most important thing is a new technical concept (14:42): whatever you do, DO NOT let the primer **pooch out** your measurements!
How could anyone give this great informative video a thumbs down?
Especially 11 people? Not everyone gets first hand load development lesson from a master! I guess there right when they say opinions are like A*holes, or A*holes have opinions!!lol I guess I'm just one of them lol
Great job great video, thanks for sharing!! Cant wait to watch part 2!
Thank you!
Everybody has their own madness in reloading, as long as you get the results you’re looking for.
I decap, wash, anneal then resize and trim ... have taken a few classes with Scott at Rock Lake Range and found it interesting to bump the shouldnt and resize before annealing.
I want Scott to know he is The Rock Star!
This series is good stuff thanks for posting.
Watching Scott hunt around on his bench for the correct tool he needs looks all too familiar.
“Organized chaos”
@Scott Satterlee I think we all can relate that!
Are we gonna see ya at rock lake this weekend?
@Scott Satterlee I take a small rare earth magnet and stick it on the side of my press to hold the allen key for locking down my dies. Saves time searching for it on the bench, drawer, floor etc.
I setup my Hornady Match bushing die by raising the ram till it touches the shellholder, then lower the ram, then turn it ever so slightly clockwise until I feel a very slight camover when raising the ram again, w/o the case in the shelholder of course. Usually takes two slight turns and it's good.
Kili is a good Student. Great video.
Thank you! - Kili
Use a Whidden click adjustable die to take the back and forth out
Whose expander mandrel are you using? It doesn't look like Wilson, Sinclair or 21st Century which are the 3 I can find.
Yes!
Great video. Thanks for sharing your knowledge
Glad you enjoyed it!
What Is the lubrication solution Scott was using? Something like Lanolin and alcohol. What ratio?
Great job 👍💯
Thanks for a great video. One question, what is the reason to anneal after sizing instead of before? Thanks.
Scott says the sequence doesn’t matter. We still anneal before resizing.
My understanding from Scotts explanation was he anneals to get consistent neck tension Or as he put it it softens the brass to get better neck grip on bullet. I had this same question cause I anneal before sizing but this process seams simpler.
I saw this was asked earlier with no reply. What is the lanolin to alcohol mixture/ ratio? What type of alcohol?
Thanks!
We’re not sure we use a different solution than Scott.
Everyone is focused on the annealing, I'm stuck on his 2000 pieces of brass for a rifle. Shocked at the expense, then realizing that once you have a load you dont have to tinker with it again as all the brass is the same. No changes or oopsies on a third or fourth firing.
Having 2k pieces of brass is definitely 1st world problems
@Scott Satterlee @Long Range With The Lillys, at the 15:00 minute mark, Scott says he FL resizes w/o the decapping stem and expander ball. I started using a universal decapping die first and then FL resize w/o the expander ball/ stem. I found my neck tension is exceedingly tight, to the point where you can see the base of the bullet bulge when seated in the neck of the loaded cartridge. Surely this cannot be the correct amount of bullet neck tension as this probably generates dangerously high chamber pressures. Is this correct?
Yes if you fl resize you have to reexpand the neck after. The FL resize will push the neck in. If you measure I’ll bet you’re way undersized. Both Scott and I run an expander mandrel in the next station to set neck tension.
Is that a bushing full length die or just a full length resisting die with the expander ball removed and you are using a mandrel to open the be happy.
@Scott Satterlee Hi. Thanks for video. 2 questions. Were the cases inspected for dents prior to adding lubrication? Were the cases lubed without cleaning? If so, do you notice dirtier dies with this methos? I noticed the cases were annealed after sizing and cleaning, are there any pros and cons to anneal after sizing? I always anneal prior to sizing every firing and find it produces better neck tension consistency.
Isn't it best practice to anneal before resizing to eliminate springback? I love this approach, especially with the progressive press to prep the brass
We anneal before resizing but we don’t anneal every firing either
Did anyone catch whether Scott does a quick wash before decap, resize, mandrel process? It looks like he takes 1x fired brass straight to decapping, etc process.
Lol we think he (Scott) takes it straight in to the process.
I'm assuming he single loads every round. What if you want to load from the magazine for lets say PRS shooting? How do you go about determining the CBTO length or OAL? Thanks great series!
Almost all PRS shooters shoot from magazine fed rifles. Scott does as well. Obviously knowing max OAL that will fit in the mag is a necessity.
@@longrangewiththelillys1221 I doubt he does. Otherwise he wouldn't be wasting time experimenting with the bullet so close to the lands. Plus I didn't see him measuring the max OAL his mags allow so I doubt he loads from magazine
Watch episode 2 & 3. He in fact does shoot from a magazine.
@@longrangewiththelillys1221 he does not. I watched all episodes before commenting. He has an empty magazine inserted to act as a shelf for the rounds he single loads into the action. Without a magazine inserted he would have to stick them all into the chamber or otherwise they fall through the mag well. Part 3 at 3:59 is an example of single loading. There are many more.
Mateus. He’s using MDT WSM magazines they hold 5 rounds of 6.5 PRC. He does pull from the box and single feed several times in the video. You’ll have to take my word for it that he does in fact shoot from a magazine, he just didn’t take the time to stuff a magazine in the segments we captured. The purpose of that rifle is the NRL Hunter series where it would be extremely detrimental to performance to single feed. As far as finding Mag capacity it’s just a matter of measuring the internal dimensions of the magazine and running a COAL that is less. This is not an issue for most PRS/NRL type cartridges. Thanks for the questions and we’re glad you liked the videos.
That was really good. Thankyou for that. What is Scotts reason for anealing after sizing.? Not before. Cheers again.
That’s a really great question for Scott! Hit him up on social media. He’s always happy to share his knowledge.
@@longrangewiththelillys1221 haha don’t have social media. Cheers anyway.
I was wondering the same thing...i always anneal before resizing. i was wondering there for a second if maybe he knew some voodoo that I have never heard.
@@timdixon4883 everyone does it their own way. I would assume that he is annealing after sizing to take the "work hardening" out of the brass from sizing. It CAN also help uniform neck tension by making the amount of spring back consistent.
Watch Erik Cortina on UA-cam......he explains it way better than me
@@kirkmartin2223 most people anneal first so its solf before you work it with the resizing die.
I anneal before brass sizing. Does annealing after case sizing not affect your neck tension?
Thanks Scott
This is a great question for Scott. We have always annealed before resizing as well. Feel free to reach out to him via social media. We'll ask him to drop in here and answer this question as it's been asked a few times. Thanks for watching!
I anneal before sizing too. If you try after, it will relax some and does effect neck tension. Measure it yourself and see.
Be careful when using lapua case they have a smaller hole and many decapping pins get stuck.when deprimming
lol
Please explain the Neck Tension formula he used, I didnt understand it
If you measure the outer diameter of the case after resizing and running through the mandrel you will have your starting number. After you load the bullet into the case you measure the outer diameter again. It should be a slightly larger number. The difference is your neck tension. Hope this helps! Thanks for watching!
@@longrangewiththelillys1221 do you know which mandrel die he uses, and are his other dies Hornady
@@bigred06100 he uses hornady dies. We use whidden and Redding. Also our mandrel is a Sinclair. We’re not sure what he uses
@@longrangewiththelillys1221 if using a mandrel, wouldn’t you know neck tension even before seating the bullet. If your mandrel was .262 for a .264 bullet, you’d already know you were going to have .0020 neck tension... right?
@@brandtgoodwin2950 brass has a "bounce back". Just because your mandrel lists a diameter doesn't mean your brass will end up that diameter
What is the process you use if it is range brass that you didn't fire in your chamber? What changes with your process?
We don’t use picked up range brass. If you are reloading for precision we recommend at a minimum you shoot brass from the same manufacturer and that you start with new brass.
loved the video! I have a question, do I use full-length sizing die without neck bushing in it?
yes i am using mandrels die in my prossess
We use full length sizers. We do not use neck bushings. Although I know a lot of people that do.
You anneal after you resize? I was told the annealing process can change the shape (slightly) and you should anneal first then do all the sizing, shaping and trimming?
That’s the way Scott does it. We anneal then resize
@@longrangewiththelillys1221 ok thanks
11pounds is very heavy rifle, my 45 90 is 11.5 and that has a lot more recoil than a 6.5 PRC.
11 pounds is actually pretty light for a PRS rifle. Many of the guns are 15 to 20 lbs, and some heavier.
You want the rifle to be heavy and 11 pounds is pretty damn lite
@@thewatcher9778 light is 6 pounds
@@thompsonjerry3412 just having to shoot 10 rounds in under two minutes means the barrel is going to be heavy. then typically, weights are added to balance the gun in front of the mag well. PRS guns are not field guns.
Curious about resizing, then annealing then tumbling. Seems like the internet prefers to clean, anneal then resize. Thoughts?
This is a question best for Scott. We anneal first as well. I think Scott has found that it really doesn’t matter that much.
What is tool in the caliper called? Where can I buy? You recommend the Dillon 750 for precision reloading?
I only recommend loading on a progressive press if you are an experienced reloader. Or if you have a good mentor. It does complicate the process. And I think you’re referring to hornady comparator gauges.
Annealing after resizing?
That’s Scott’s sequence. We anneal then resize. I don’t know if there is a right or wrong here🤷🏻♂️
I may have missed it but when do you clean the brass ?
It’s the first step for us. Scott is less picky 🤷🏻♂️
How do you keep the media out of your primer pockets when tumbling?
We typically haven’t deprimed yet. So the primer pocket isn’t empty
@@longrangewiththelillys1221 One other question. I like to tumble and anneal before brass prep for 2 reasons. 1) the brass could get deformed during tumbling or annealing (I use the bench-source annealer) 2) I like to run clean brass through my dies so as to minimize fouling in the dies. Am I missing something here that I really should be tumbling and annealing after brass prep, or am I fine to do both processes before?
We do both before. We just clean the dies occasionally
So he doesn’t clean the brass before sizing?
Lol nope
@@longrangewiththelillys1221 well heck... I've been doing it wrong 🤣 that'll save me a step!
What expander is that?
We’re not sure which brand scott uses. We use the Sinclair expander mandrels
Every man learns at some point that you can't teach your own wife some stuff.
ok @ long range with Lilly's ok i was invited to a pro NRA test firing for electronic targets, (it was a disaster i shot 3 rifles all were in same type group ok i had one rifle every bullet at 100 yards 5 shot group put a dime over it all one guy said no way so i did it again after it cooled I took rifle & locked it up) & waited they had the big give outs I was not in either group the guy at targets said he out shot all the winners with one rifle! no the guy said i saw it with like 4 others that's wrong! ( the NRA said i shot the same rifle like 7 time's ok i had 3 rifle's a savage edge 25-06 & Remington 788 in 22-250 & a (CZ-usa 550 American 6.5 x 55 i shot 10 shots all prefect scores how i loose the most you could get 2 times like back to back) it did not make sense to me! to me it bad sportsmanship on there part (i get calls and letter still asking for money and donation with the way this outfit went and did to me there lucky I still a NRA member!) it real bad a guy with bad right arm & screwed up shoulder & was made sick for over 30 years well in the military & forgot told i nutso & i really had blood cancer hidden over 30 years till the sample of(frozen blood) the man named in my sealed adoption as the closed relation to me! to se my real father! ps i was a ward of the state bought out by a adoption under odd rules like related to my mother & policeman & a add on asked by my real father all done in 1963 in court & approved! ( i found a paper from my adoption to a law-firm that handle it what is in there I asked the lawyer that took over the firm the guys son had the file on me ok it bad stuff but my real father asked and was approved threw the stepfather brother IE Uncle to my mother under medical DNA test to find what sickness i had- ok IT WAS BLOOD CANCER A 100% DEATH RATE CANCER TO WHO THE UNCLE TO MY MOTHER & ITS WAS FULLY CONTROLLED THREW TESTING ON HIM) it was same man who saw my real father in my adoption! I had a government military job in US air-force I went where I should have never gone all my records were sealed & few people knew or even looked! ( this is real bad for a man with firearms to go threw that mess & feel left out give award to other people that did worse then me)
What a poor way to end the video
Since when is an eleven pound rifle light!? Ha! Wait till Melvin Forbes hears this BS.
Light is relative.