After some 20 plus years of building Windsor chairs I'm amazed at how much new information is found in these videos. I hope the general public recognizes the wealth of expertise from this chair building legend - Mike Dunbar. Truly the "King" of Windsor chair builders.
Fantastic video Mike! You took the mystery out of Milk Paint for me and added the historic background and reasoning for painted chairs - a true history lesson. I loved the entire series. Hopefully you can continue for a long time to come.
Thanks for the kind words, Fred. Yes, I have used that scheme. In fact, it is often found on antique Windsors. An 18th century chair would have typically been painted green. After a generation or more it was badly worn and ready for a fresh finish. It's now the Federal Period and red is a popular color. So, now the green chair becomes red. Another generation or more goes by and our old chair is once again well worn and ready to be spruced up. It is now the Victorian period and black is popular. Our once green, and then red chair now becomes black. The chair get used for another generation and finally having become just an old chair gets stored in the attic. It is eventually sold into the antique market displaying traces of its green and red finishes under the later black. In imitation of a common paint history, I have used black over red, over green. Also, I have simulated wear to reveal the three colors. Thanks for the question.
Spent the last 3 days watching this series of videos when time allowed and what a wonderful series it is. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and craftsmanship with us.
Great information. I’m just starting my adventure into building Windsor chairs, I’ve been building chairs and stools for quite sometime and I’ve alway had my eye on Windsor chair building. Thanks Mike for the inspiration!
Muchas, muchas gracias por el video, y felicitaciones, usted es un poeta..!!! Que forma tan bonita de referirse a la silla, su historia, nuestra interaccion con ella. Me ha gustado y sorprendido.
I am so glad to see Mike is still around, he taught me one of my favorite phrases ... "T.S.O" short for Tool Shaped Object, that is not a tool but sure is shaped like one. Funny, but it seems like anybody with strong opinions one way or another, people seem to either love or really dislike Mike Dunbar?! Hard to debate his influence though!
Mike I so appreciate your video. I thoroughly enjoyed watching it and having a visit with you again. I still have two sack-backs from my visit to the Windsor Institute that sorely need a finish. Question: If I want to do a black finish, is there any justification to paint the chair Green - Red - Black in that order, for some wear or distressing? Have you ever done finishes like this?
I wonder if verdigris was chosen deliberately because of its fugitive nature, just like fine artists used to adjust their colors to compensate for the yellowing over time of the final varnish. Thanks for the tips and history lesson! Oh, and could you tell me what color did you use on the cabinet behind you?
Thanks for your in-depth answer, maybe I should have just watched the video twice and it would have gotten through my thick skull!😂.... it's not that I doubt you it's just that I love the natural wood grain oh, and I might have to learn the hard way about line and texture.. I'm glad you're doing what you're doing and thanks again!
Hello Mike. This was a nice presentation of the information we received in our class packets. Had lots of great results with my chair finishes. Have you ever used General Finishes ready to use milk paint products? The results seem to be consistent as with Old Fashioned Milk paint product, maybe not quite as chalky and flat.
Ohyah Mike would you have time to do a stool like the one behind you on the workbench , I made one in the 90`s but maybe a more simpler way.Tom from Canada.
I have always used Old Fashioned Milk Paint. I discovered it around 1975 and became friends with the fellow who produced it. Later, his daughter took over the company. I understand that someone else has since bought it. However, the product remains the same formula. This is their website: milkpaint.com/
Hi Mike , my father and I took your Sack Back Windsor chair class years ago . The chairs are as solid and tight as the day they were made . What Milk Paint would you use for the base layer to get the " tortoise shell " look ? Are you still teaching ? Great video .
I acquired 4 Duckloe brothers Windsor chairs that are a finished wood and I would like to paint them and achieve a satin low luster look such as yours here. How would you prep the surface and would General Finishes be a good finish to use? With a wipe on poly? I am aware this is not a true milk paint but it is what my painter suggested she would use. Any advice is appreciated
Hello Mike! Thank you so much for the fascinating story of Windsor Chair, I am genuinely impressed. We like milk paint, too. And decided to paint with it the doors at our home. But there is a problem: fresh pine wood gives yellowing through the paint coat. Which base - wood stain or primer - could you recommend for milk paint?
Hi Anastassie: Thank you for your kind words. Old Fashioned Milk Paint makes a product called Extra Bond. If you seal your doors with shellac and then use Extra Bond, I think milk paint will adhere and eliminate the problem of the pine bleeding through. Check with the company first. www.milkpaint.com/product-category/extra-bond
We may never be able to answer your question as the old guys didn't write down the reasons for their choices. The cabinet is painted in latex paint, but the color is very close to Lexington green. It used to stand on the shop floor at The Windsor Institute. Our interior woodwork was all that color.
Great job as always Mike! What are your thoughts on black, over red, over green as I have read so much about when painting a Windsor chair? Also I used boiled linseed oil on my chair instead of wipe on poly. Is there much of a difference between using one or the other?
As I make additional types of Windsors I expect to discuss other finishing techniques, including the tortoise shell effect resulting from two colors. I stopped using linseed oil because it does not seal as well, permitting the milk paint to water spot if spilled or splashed on.
@@thewindsorinstitute2047 I also had this question and while I still have two sack-backs to finish, I intend to do just as you said, the green/red/black, so will love to hear more about it too. (I even wondered about a stain to begin; which I know is a cheat, but when and if wear through happens, it might also show as a layer)
You are creating a conflict that opens a can of worms. Remember, Windsor's were designed around their finish. They look the way they look because they were intended to be painted. In making a Windsor you are composing with line. However, the purpose of a natural finish is to display texture, the wood's grain. You can't accentuate texture without distracting the viewer's eye from your composition, undermining your chair's success in line. Furthermore, the chair is made of several different species, and they all have different textures and colors. To avoid your chair becoming piebald you have to stain everything the same color. However, different species take stain differently. This means you have to stain heavily to make everything the same shade of brown. Now, you've come full circle in that you're essentially painting with stain. Wouldn't it just make more sense to paint the chair brown?
@@stacieskelley During the handmade period? Very rare. I know of only a couple of examples. Good Windsor construction relies on the properties of different woods to perform different functions. The old guys understood this and usually used three different species for back, seat and turnings. It was very common for factories to use a single species of hardwood.
@thewindsorinstitute I am currently trying to decide on what color to use as an undercoat for black. Everybody uses red but I am not crazy about red. What about using a green like the one shown here as an undercoat? Will it look strange when it shows through once buffed out?
Hi Sarah: Thanks for the question. In your other email you wrote that black over red has been described to you as a traditional finish. The word traditional is virtually meaningless. When today's chairmakers use it they generally mean, "as commonly done in the 18th century". To top it off, they are frequently mistaken, as most rely on what they have heard rather than doing any research into 18th century practices. The result is a lot of misinformation spread about as "traditional". I am the source of the black over red milk paint trend. I used it on my dining room chairs because I liked the tortoise shell effect. I described the finish in a woodworking magazine, and although that was barely 20 years ago, it has now become "traditional". In the 18th century Windsors were generally painted green, using lead based paints, not milk paint. Green was simply the fashionable color. It perhaps came about because Windsors were frequently used outside as garden chairs. Green was so much the trend that the average person referred to Windsors as "green chairs". This color choice is confirmed by 18th century painted portraits of people sitting in Windsors and by paintings of 18th century interiors. After a generation or so of use a Windsor's paint became worn and its owners sent their still perfectly good chair to the local chair shop to be freshened. The second coat of paint became whatever color the owners preferred, although fashionable colors were most frequently chosen. That process often repeated every generation or so. Eventually, most 18th century Windsors had several layers of paint, often different colors; always what the owners preferred. So, paint your chairs green and black if that is what appeals to you. In that way you are being traditional, as that is what the owners of original Windsors did through two centuries. Mike
I'm not the best guy to answer this question in that I applied milk paint to raw wood that I had made. Milk paint does not bond to a surface that has been previously finished. That said, Old Fashioned Milk Paint makes a product named Extra Bond that is claimed to solve this problem. I have never used Extra Bond and can only convey their claims. If you try it I urge you to experiment before jumping into the your project.
the poly finish ruins the whole asthetic of using milk paint in the first place- you might as well have used a flat paint. you could use the linseed oil/milkpaint authentic sealer thank you
Kia Ora & Good Evening from North Shore, Auckland, New Zealand …great video bro …
Fascinating. I intend to undertake a Windsor chair, and I find this in-depth information fascinating. Thank you.
After some 20 plus years of building Windsor chairs I'm amazed at how much new information is found in these videos. I hope the general public recognizes the wealth of expertise from this chair building legend - Mike Dunbar. Truly the "King" of Windsor chair builders.
Fantastic video Mike! You took the mystery out of Milk Paint for me and added the historic background and reasoning for painted chairs - a true history lesson. I loved the entire series. Hopefully you can continue for a long time to come.
Thanks for the kind words, Fred. Yes, I have used that scheme. In fact, it is often found on antique Windsors. An 18th century chair would have typically been painted green. After a generation or more it was badly worn and ready for a fresh finish. It's now the Federal Period and red is a popular color. So, now the green chair becomes red. Another generation or more goes by and our old chair is once again well worn and ready to be spruced up. It is now the Victorian period and black is popular. Our once green, and then red chair now becomes black. The chair get used for another generation and finally having become just an old chair gets stored in the attic. It is eventually sold into the antique market displaying traces of its green and red finishes under the later black. In imitation of a common paint history, I have used black over red, over green. Also, I have simulated wear to reveal the three colors. Thanks for the question.
Now I know why I always loved the Windsor chair.
Wow. So much interesting info. I felt like I am sitting in a classroom during the video.
You sir, are excellent teacher.
That was amazing, great video. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge!
Seriously, who goes out of their way not to like watching Mike make a wonderful Windsor Chair? And the history lesson is fantastic on own.
Thank you for an amazing lesson!
Great teacher and crafts man. Thanks
Spent the last 3 days watching this series of videos when time allowed and what a wonderful series it is. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and craftsmanship with us.
Loved this. Learned a lot.
Nice Mike excellent, now its time for the Graduation ceremony get the crown!
Great information. I’m just starting my adventure into building Windsor chairs, I’ve been building chairs and stools for quite sometime and I’ve alway had my eye on Windsor chair building. Thanks Mike for the inspiration!
Thoroughly enjoyed this, Mike.
Thanks very much for these...
Amazing! Great info!
Mike: Glad to see the milk paint tutorial for the Windsor chair. Again brings back some of my most pleasant memories at the Windsor Institute.
Muchas, muchas gracias por el video, y felicitaciones, usted es un poeta..!!! Que forma tan bonita de referirse a la silla, su historia, nuestra interaccion con ella. Me ha gustado y sorprendido.
Well done !!!!!! thanks Mike thanks for sharing .Tom from Canada
Thank you for a fantasticly informative and well made video. I instantly subscribed. And will watch the whole series. Cheers from Norway.
Hi Mike I thanks and look very forward to see your technique for make the stool.Tom from Canada
I am so glad to see Mike is still around, he taught me one of my favorite phrases ... "T.S.O" short for Tool Shaped Object, that is not a tool but sure is shaped like one. Funny, but it seems like anybody with strong opinions one way or another, people seem to either love or really dislike Mike Dunbar?! Hard to debate his influence though!
Mike I so appreciate your video. I thoroughly enjoyed watching it and having a visit with you again. I still have two sack-backs from my visit to the Windsor Institute that sorely need a finish. Question: If I want to do a black finish, is there any justification to paint the chair Green - Red - Black in that order, for some wear or distressing? Have you ever done finishes like this?
What an Excellent! Excellent! Video!! So informative! And so well done! Thank you very much!!!
I wonder if verdigris was chosen deliberately because of its fugitive nature, just like fine artists used to adjust their colors to compensate for the yellowing over time of the final varnish.
Thanks for the tips and history lesson! Oh, and could you tell me what color did you use on the cabinet behind you?
I'm curious of what finishes where used on these chairs before synthetic varnishes.
Thanks for your in-depth answer, maybe I should have just watched the video twice and it would have gotten through my thick skull!😂.... it's not that I doubt you it's just that I love the natural wood grain oh, and I might have to learn the hard way about line and texture..
I'm glad you're doing what you're doing and thanks again!
What are your thoughts, Mike, on a final finish of boiled linseed oil?
This was an awesome video! Thank you so much.
Thanks for the compliment, Finn.
Hello Mike. This was a nice presentation of the information we received in our class packets. Had lots of great results with my chair finishes. Have you ever used General Finishes ready to use milk paint products? The results seem to be consistent as with Old Fashioned Milk paint product, maybe not quite as chalky and flat.
So informative, thank you. How do you know how much milk paint you need for a wood painting project? What size bag did you use? A quart?
A pint of powdered paint will typically paint two chairs.
Ohyah Mike would you have time to do a stool like the one behind you on the workbench , I made one in the 90`s but maybe a more simpler way.Tom from Canada.
I hope to do an episode on making the stool, Tom.
Hello Mike. Very good video. What is the brand of milk paint you use? Thank you very much
I have always used Old Fashioned Milk Paint. I discovered it around 1975 and became friends with the fellow who produced it. Later, his daughter took over the company. I understand that someone else has since bought it. However, the product remains the same formula. This is their website: milkpaint.com/
Thank you very very much 👍
Hi Mike , my father and I took your Sack Back Windsor chair class years ago . The chairs are as solid and tight as the day they were made . What Milk Paint would you use for the base layer to get the " tortoise shell " look ? Are you still teaching ? Great video .
Use black over red, Peter.
I acquired 4 Duckloe brothers Windsor chairs that are a finished wood and I would like to paint them and achieve a satin low luster look such as yours here. How would you prep the surface and would General Finishes be a good finish to use? With a wipe on poly? I am aware this is not a true milk paint but it is what my painter suggested she would use. Any advice is appreciated
Hello Mike!
Thank you so much for the fascinating story of Windsor Chair, I am genuinely impressed.
We like milk paint, too. And decided to paint with it the doors at our home. But there is a problem: fresh pine wood gives yellowing through the paint coat. Which base - wood stain or primer - could you recommend for milk paint?
Hi Anastassie: Thank you for your kind words. Old Fashioned Milk Paint makes a product called Extra Bond. If you seal your doors with shellac and then use Extra Bond, I think milk paint will adhere and eliminate the problem of the pine bleeding through. Check with the company first. www.milkpaint.com/product-category/extra-bond
I heartily thank you for the valuable advise! Now I can hope for some success with the project…
We may never be able to answer your question as the old guys didn't write down the reasons for their choices. The cabinet is painted in latex paint, but the color is very close to Lexington green. It used to stand on the shop floor at The Windsor Institute. Our interior woodwork was all that color.
Great job as always Mike! What are your thoughts on black, over red, over green as I have read so much about when painting a Windsor chair? Also I used boiled linseed oil on my chair instead of wipe on poly. Is there much of a difference between using one or the other?
As I make additional types of Windsors I expect to discuss other finishing techniques, including the tortoise shell effect resulting from two colors. I stopped using linseed oil because it does not seal as well, permitting the milk paint to water spot if spilled or splashed on.
@@thewindsorinstitute2047 I also had this question and while I still have two sack-backs to finish, I intend to do just as you said, the green/red/black, so will love to hear more about it too. (I even wondered about a stain to begin; which I know is a cheat, but when and if wear through happens, it might also show as a layer)
Hi Mike, have you ever tried to make your own Milk Paint?
Mike, you hinted at the disadvantages of not using paint. If a person wanted to keep the natural wood look are there any satisfactory options?
You are creating a conflict that opens a can of worms. Remember, Windsor's were designed around their finish. They look the way they look because they were intended to be painted. In making a Windsor you are composing with line. However, the purpose of a natural finish is to display texture, the wood's grain. You can't accentuate texture without distracting the viewer's eye from your composition, undermining your chair's success in line. Furthermore, the chair is made of several different species, and they all have different textures and colors. To avoid your chair becoming piebald you have to stain everything the same color. However, different species take stain differently. This means you have to stain heavily to make everything the same shade of brown. Now, you've come full circle in that you're essentially painting with stain. Wouldn't it just make more sense to paint the chair brown?
@@thewindsorinstitute2047 was there anyone who made all parts of the windsor chair from the same wood species?
@@stacieskelley During the handmade period? Very rare. I know of only a couple of examples. Good Windsor construction relies on the properties of different woods to perform different functions. The old guys understood this and usually used three different species for back, seat and turnings. It was very common for factories to use a single species of hardwood.
@thewindsorinstitute I am currently trying to decide on what color to use as an undercoat for black. Everybody uses red but I am not crazy about red. What about using a green like the one shown here as an undercoat? Will it look strange when it shows through once buffed out?
Hi Sarah:
Thanks for the question. In your other email you wrote that black over red has been described to you as a traditional finish. The word traditional is virtually meaningless. When today's chairmakers use it they generally mean, "as commonly done in the 18th century". To top it off, they are frequently mistaken, as most rely on what they have heard rather than doing any research into 18th century practices. The result is a lot of misinformation spread about as "traditional". I am the source of the black over red milk paint trend. I used it on my dining room chairs because I liked the tortoise shell effect. I described the finish in a woodworking magazine, and although that was barely 20 years ago, it has now become "traditional".
In the 18th century Windsors were generally painted green, using lead based paints, not milk paint. Green was simply the fashionable color. It perhaps came about because Windsors were frequently used outside as garden chairs. Green was so much the trend that the average person referred to Windsors as "green chairs". This color choice is confirmed by 18th century painted portraits of people sitting in Windsors and by paintings of 18th century interiors. After a generation or so of use a Windsor's paint became worn and its owners sent their still perfectly good chair to the local chair shop to be freshened. The second coat of paint became whatever color the owners preferred, although fashionable colors were most frequently chosen. That process often repeated every generation or so. Eventually, most 18th century Windsors had several layers of paint, often different colors; always what the owners preferred.
So, paint your chairs green and black if that is what appeals to you. In that way you are being traditional, as that is what the owners of original Windsors did through two centuries.
Mike
I'm not the best guy to answer this question in that I applied milk paint to raw wood that I had made. Milk paint does not bond to a surface that has been previously finished. That said, Old Fashioned Milk Paint makes a product named Extra Bond that is claimed to solve this problem. I have never used Extra Bond and can only convey their claims. If you try it I urge you to experiment before jumping into the your project.
Man I bet your wife is jealous of Windsor chairs
So sad to see this end
I'm hoping it doesn't end. However, it depends on successful this channel becomes. I work for free but the videographer insists on being paid.
the poly finish ruins the whole asthetic of using milk paint in the first place- you might as well have used a flat paint. you could use the linseed oil/milkpaint authentic sealer thank you