It's unfortunately worked for me. I am up 20% in the last couple years through job hopping. I have landed in a great place, hopefully I can break this cycle as I forsee me contributing in big ways to the bottom line and hope to be compensated in turn.
@@CrazyCanuck55 20% isn't necessarily something that'll make me change jobs. I'm looking at more than 100% raise if I swap to pretty much any other job as I am right now though, so... yeah, sorry, but enough is enough.
@@SpiritLwerewolf I managed to get over 100% in 3 years with 3 different jobs. Also, you gain more experience jumping ship which makes you stand out and more valuable in the long run.
@@CrazyCanuck55 20%? nice. My payraise was enough to pay my monthly mortage on my car. But it also gives me more money in terms of pension funds, and bonuses, or when I am sick and can not job, the insurance pay me more.
I literally just did this, left a position where I am the absolute domain expert with all the tribal knowledge. Wasn't just because of money that I left, other reasons, too. But after telling my teammembers and management that I'm leaving I think they are all having panic attacks. Doesn't feel great to do, but if complaints go unheard or unactioned, then this is what happens.
Also don't forget about when you find out that the new guy your company hired who has similar (if not worse) credentials to yourself and NONE of the institutional knowledge that you do has a starting salary higher than your current pay. Then you make that move to another company for the big 15-30% pay increase, and now you're being paid more than some of their longstanding employees that are training you. It's profoundly stupid and it wouldn't exist if companies had to be open about how much everyone was paid.
Back in the silent quitting days of 2022, every engineer I worked with slowly quit the project I was on and found 30% pay raise elsewhere. I was one of the few remaining devs on that project. I used that as leverage to get 30% pay raise myself 😂. Since then many have rejoined the company because those mystery companies they went to sucked more than where I work. The grass is not always greener even if they may pay a bit more.
They were given raises when they left and when they came back. No one switches jobs without an incentive. You received only half the opportunities to negotiate they did so you most likely make less than they do now.
I've lived this, but got away from it. Some companies do actually understand the importance of retention. I work at Visa as a Senior Engineer, and they've been generous. They never ask me to work late or cross my work/life boundaries. I did really well last year, so they gave me a 25 percent raise, promotion, increased my bonus, and gave me significant stock options that vest EVENLY over 3 years (take notes Amazon). Honestly, I probably wouldn't leave even if I was paid better. I'm scared to leave, not because of pay, but I doubt I'll be this respected in my role wherever I go.
I really like where I’m working. The pay increases haven’t been substantial and this year there weren’t any because of shareholder appearances. I don’t really want to work somewhere else, but I also don’t want my compensation to stagnate as I’m developing more business knowledge and increasing the breadth of my value. Of either side of that equation was different, it would be an easier decision.
@@HardcoreGamers115 That's mainly because the financial companies that don't put their big boy pants on tend to die in a very horrible and dramatic fashion.
I've been a software engineer for over 32 years now and this is exactly how I feel about it. You hit the bullseye here and I can say that working for quite a few organizations.
Yup, spot on, our team consists of only 8 people. It's not a big project compared to most enterprise level software, but it is very niché and the tribal knowledge is deep. We could handle losing one senior, though it would throw us back quite a bit. If two of them quit it would kill the project because our competition would absolutely overtake us by the time new hires have become familiar with the project. I pray our new head of engineering watches this video before the next yearly negotiations come up, because our seniors know what they are worth.
Yea, I've just recently made that exact experience. Worked for less than average wage for years. Not even during Inflation did me or my colegues get a raise . Uppon asking the answer was always "If you want more, you got to earn that". How were we supposed to do that if free overtime was expected out of passion and detication? (yea, it was THAT kind of company) Only God knows. Now at my new Job I got instantly offered 25% than what i had before more and now I feel like I'm overpayed / overvalued. Hope that this does not fall on my feet some day. I'm so anxious.
Your situation sounds very similar to my latest colleague. He also worries about not delivering and loosing his job. Ultimately, these worries does nothing but hinder his enjoyment of what we are doing. I try to encourage him by praising his work and tell him that it's not his responsibility to think about that stuff. Salary is a push and pull game. In the end, you shouldn't hold back out of the goodness of your own conscience, it's not part of your job. There are people hired for that, pulling you down, but no one is hired for pushing you up. It makes no sense to do their job for them. For 99,9999% of companies, they wouldn't even know if you were payed 10x more, it would make no difference to them, but it would most likely be life changing to you. So go out there and get over payed as much as possible, it's ok to be a little greedy sometimes to massively improve your own circumstances!
My first job had amazing retention - like, seniors that were really excellent and top of their game staying there for 10 years+. The reason? An engaged CEO who walked the shop floor and spoke to devs/engineers and rewarded them with excellent wages, bonuses and share options. He eventually sold the company once he decided he wanted to chill, and it immediately went to shit, and loads of people cashed in and left. Ever since then I've rolled new jobs every 3 years or so because of EXACTLY this. Pitiful reward structures keeps everyone on their heels.
This happened to me. Was delayed promotion for 2 years of doing the next level's job, getting exceeds perf reviews. Got a new job with 25% raise and they only offered the promotion and matched salary after I put in my notice. Salary would have been higher than my colleague who was already two pay grades above me
I saw Uncle Bob give a talk on this (+professionalism) back in 2013 during my 1st job. It completely transformed my mindset and set my career on a great path. Thanks for sharing this idea with your audience - you have to take control of your own career development, and take pride in your craft.
Ah, yes. I worked at a place for 5 years and was THE expert on a specific system at the organisation. I had interacted with every single piece of infrastructure for that specific system and knew every person around the org who managed each component (and I was on good terms with them, including an external vendor who used to work with us) - I can confidently say that only one other person out of about 10,000 employees org-wide knew it as well as I did. After 5 years of working full time, I wanted to drop my loading to a 4 day working week while retaining my pay (so, I wasn't even asking for more money). C-Suite said 'no because reasons', then after 6 months of back and forth I went to another engineering company that paid me significantly more money. I actually kind of miss that job as well, which is sad.
I am literally experiencing this right this moment. I am looking for a new job even though I really like my current job, just because I am drastically underpaid. My manager really wants to keep me, but he said executives won't authorize him giving me a raise unless I threaten to leave with an offer from another company.
If your boss wants to keep you but won't see you as valuable enough to get a raise, he doesn't respect you. Get another job offer. And then Take the job offer. That company doesn't deserve your loyalty.
You're not paid what you're worth, only what you negotiate. Companies will pay the least amount they can get away with and get the job done, the money they hired you for was that sum and there's little motivation to increase it since they already had success hiring you.
I worked for Visa, a company that did a 10 billion dollar stock buy back one year (1 million per employee). They were spending 50 million a year on my teams project. But they hired 200 new college grads. They paid staff engineers 130-140k with no bonus or stock. The project was a total failure after 8 years. They never learned that just buying the cheapest engineers they could find was a bad strategy. It was mindblowing that a company which is insanely profitable, could be that cheap. They refused to give raises of more than 1.5% and almost never gave promotions. People just used it as a stepping stone to a real job and they were ok with that.
Hiring budgets are higher than retention budgets, and you're right that it's absolutely stupid in every way. You offer me 2% so I bounce and I get 10% at another company. So you have to replace me but somebody with my level of experience on the open market TODAY is going to cost at least 10% more than I asked for when I joined 2 years ago. So what the company ends up with is paying 10% for an employee who knows the system less. It's bone-headed and nobody learns.
Quite honestly, if i find another job, i'll change jobs so fast that my boss will not have the time to show tears. Most underpaid developer here, working as a junior, without any senior or mid dev watching over my work, responsible from backend, frontend, devops, testing, db operations, all of it. And its my first job. I asked for someone above me to monitor my progress and confirm the process and was told that i can pull it on my own, carrying all the responsibility. I asked a raise and it is not given because... They are sure i can handle it. We are going live on January so i sincerely hope that cursor checked my code properly for any possible issues. Disloyalty has its rewards. Change jobs. Jobs are jobs.
The other issue I take with our industry is the hyper-specialization with zero ability to hop from specialization to specialization. I get it, my C# knowledge isn't 100% applicable to C or C++, but it is still most of the way there, all the underlying concepts are the same, some of the features don't exist. and other ones do exist, but fundamentally, you have this meta-skill called programming that straight up isn't recognized anymore.
Going from C# to C or C++ isn't a trivial jump, though. You'll probably be more useful than someone early in their career with direct experience with those languages, but I dunno if I'd hire a great C# dev over a good C dev for a job with low level requirements
@@soggy_dev Sure a good C dev would be better at low-level stuff than a good C# dev. But if you're a GREAT C# dev will become a GREAT C dev relatively fast. Because great devs are hard to find. Not only that, but it's my experience that many jobs will hire nobody before they hire somebody without experience in their specific language. Because HR doesn't know how much of programming is just concepts that are the same across languages.
companies and roles differ, but a decent chunk of C and C++ jobs require someone who actually knows a decent amount about modern computer architecture, and doesn't just treat the machine as most compsci does (as if RAM was as fast as the CPU). that's hard earned knowledge, with way too little training material available. it's also not something most senior devs are really prepared to teach well, given the company even has the time to pull them off projects to teach. it's often not just a "3-6 months and a dozen code reviews and you're up to speed" kind of thing, as is typically needed in less specialized positions. (check out casey muratori's courses :P)
If they make programmers feel valuable for what they do, then some of them will have demands and influence. They rotate, because they can get away from it and feel safe that no one will replace them that is better or question their decision making. There are people who have council of experts, who they listen to, but it seems always on their terms and they usually keep them in balance. By the way, good idea, about making journal of great things you did, it is probably 2% effort and 80% results for salary discussions.
The most I ever got as a promotion in return "for my loyalty" of 2 years was 4.02%, about half of which was bonuses everyone got during covid. In return for disloyalty, I tripled my salary (even accounting for inflation) After the job where I spent 2 years, I got fired at the next job (which gave me 10% more pay) for office politics reasons ("you earn too much for how young you are"), and I proceeded to get 50% higher salary at a bank. I thought, that's so much money, I cannot possibly know what to do with all that money. Our whole division was let go during restructuring. I got 6 months of salary as a kind of "bronze parachute" and for not taking them up to court. I chillaxed for 5 months, and then found a job with DOUBLE the salary I got at the bank. I just hope I can keep this job as it's quite demanding. If I can keep it, I'm set for life baby.
Dude, these are such good insights! For 3 years I didn't get ANY raise. I went from 2.5x the amount of the national _minimum_ salary (while working in IT!), to almost 1x if I worked in a supermarket stacking products on fucking shelves! 😐 It pissed me off so much! Because of inflation, if you're not getting a raise every month, YOU'RE LOSING MONEY. So the trajectory at 0:07 isn't even flat, it's actually DOWNWARDS! Imagine an inflation of 5-7% every month. If you're not getting a 5-7% raise at your job every month, you're losing money. Getting paid the same while everything else around you gets more expensive means that the money you're being paid is losing its value. The "solution" would be to move to another company every 4-6 months for 20-25% increase each time. 😐 And how is THAT gonna look to your next employer, who is looking at your track record and knowing that you'll only be there for 6 months at most??? Our financial system is broken.
i’ve basically created my own projects at work without anyone really asking for these solutions. i had to build a better solution for something I had created years ago to scale as the business expands, plus started creating a headless web app to connect to my other projects to allow others to access data.. Probably the largest one man project I’ve ever built. I agree, you have to set the path not the employer.. in terms of your career.
100% there's a target on your back. It doesn't matter what industry. I've been in 4 industries (automotive, hospitality, entertainment, construction) and currently in my 5th (manufacturing). You 100% have a target on your back. And it's a shame almost every time. Some folks can fuhk off.
100! Demoralizing as hell, especially if you like where you're at, and they essentially force you to decide between your professional fulfillment and financial success
Literally dealing with that today. Got my promotion, and still getting paid less than every developer employee at my company whilst doing up to Sr Engineer level work, and nobody denies this! I am getting paid entry level pay, and I've been offered $150k from other companies (relocation required so I said no for now), literally more than double my current pay for something I won't be good at for another 1-2 years. This industry is so stupid, no wonder people are quitting, because management refuses to pay out appropriately. We've lost millions (by my estimate) because of this insanity, and upper management won't listen. We are also not a large company by any standards. Welp, their loss at this point. I'll laugh when things crash and burn because I can already see the start lol
Devs: "Yes, bringing in new talent might bring new ideas and skills we don't yet have, but! the team has specialized knowledge which is highly valuable to the company". Mgmt: "Bring in new talent, so you're telling me there's a chance!"
Until I started working for myself, the optimization was to exert as little mental effort during my short stint at any company. That is, avoiding product caveats and not reaching out to people unless absolutely necessary. The only thing that kept me in the game was building projects after work that were mentally stimulating and satisfying. It was misery on a level I didn't understand until I got out of it.
I work as a Dev Support Engineer at a big platform We have so much talent drain that it's astounding. A big portion of why our customers think we suck is because all the talented people leave
This is everywhere, not just the tech industry. Im the operations manager at an offroad tour business. I recently had to tell my boss I was looking for something else because I want to live and not just survive. The time and money it would take to replace what I am responsible for would also take two sane people.
Other thing I think a lot of devs miss that holds back their earnings is really understanding their companies business, and how they impact it. Knowing that lets you much more easily explain why you’re valuable. “I deserve a raise because I implemented a better test suite” probably doesn’t get you much. “I deserve a raise because that test suite I implemented reduced our production error rates by 50%, which led to $2 million fewer customer sla credits” makes it much clearer to mgmt why your valuable, and makes it much easier for your direct manager to justify the budget increase to their boss.
learned that the hard way. Was loyal for 10 years with miniscule pay raises. When I left (with an instant 45% payrise) they had to recruit two new staff to replace me because I was overworking myself in the illusion it would earn me a payrise.
Me this week: "I'm increasing my rate 10% in the new year because inflation sucks" My client who I've been contracting with for over 10 years: "Okay, cool. " It really was that easy. He knows it'd cost him way more than that to pay someone else to learn to maintain all the projects I've been working on over the last 10 years.
The problem is that programming skill gets you your initial salary, but once you're assimilated and integrated into the company, your increases depend on very abstract factors that are often not in your control, like client feedback, team feedback, business manager feedback, yearly progression plans, and so on. The most optimal way towards getting a salary increase is to cut the BS and change companies every 1-2 years, at least until you hit a soft cap (around the 5-6 work experience mark). Then you can change companies every 3-5 years.
I can envision several frameworks for retaining human capital by rewarding good employees, but any system that requires judging merit will ultimately boil down to the perceptions of several individuals and their ability to form a consensus. Having a good structure may help, but the company would have to have a culture compatible with meritocracy which would already lead to the same outcome regardless of the structure for the structure to work anyway.
When an employer becomes unsatisfactory, for any reason you don't negotiate, you don't talk to them about it. You prepare to leave, and then you leave silently, finally, and with no drama. Turn your equipment in and leave. Part of your Preparation strategy should be pricing your consulting services should they require your assistance after your employment relationship is over. But most companies would rather chew rocks if it means being in the power position so YMMV
there are workplaces that train you up and workplaces that give you useful pay bumps. they're not common, and they don't tend to hire a lot of people. part of the problem is that many managers, whether they mean to or not, see employees as a "done deal", and people who aren't yet hired the way someone might think of an ebay auction. the potential of an employee who you haven't yet hired, that might get away, looks a lot more shiny. but part of the problem is just math. the places doing the most hiring are the places who treat employees most like a commodity, with the most turnover.
I just started at a new company, me and another dev on a super efficient and fast paced team. The amount of tribal knowledge flowing through that team is insane, and part of what is exciting/challenging is not dragging the velocity down and trying to keep up. My thought is if I can operate at that level my value to the company /team will help me max out those bonuses+pay bumps
Saw a slide that estimated 60k to backfill a senior dev position. Roll that into consistent RSU or something tied to retention and everyone can relax and just focus on the work instead of gaming the system.
Companies do this because over time the value that an employee produces grows faster than their rate of pay increases. They win by giving you as little as possible needed to keep you there. They exploit the fact that it is significantly more disruptive to switch jobs for a person than it is for a business to hire a new employee.
It doesn't matter, you should switch every two to three years. When you dont change, you are skills remain stagnant and they will replace you with a fresh face that brings in new ideas
This year I became a senior, i was let go after 3 months (ADHD), and joined another company who gave me thr time, and now i have tribal knowledge, im effective and score an average senior score, which i am thrilled with actually. Next year im going to be above average.
it's because people generally aren't paying attention. even management. they focus on the costs in dollar terms, not in other terms. it's a side effect of a system of trade based on a single measure of points (money)
The companies do this as they would otherwise go down under. The only reason why it functions because there are enough people who let themselves get trampled on.
I think companies do this because there are not only people who let themselves get trampled on, but also people that are learning, and are not yet ready to get paid more. Not because they don't have the knowledge or aren't willing to do stuff, but because they lack the experience, such as to have a fast response to certain situations, and high awareness to what the products they're working on are doing
Except they still end up paying ~10% more for this "new talent" anyways, as opposed to just giving a fair raise to existing employees that would cost them less! The solution is simple: companies need to adjust how wage "increases" are handed out. If an employee is excelling, the increase is larger. If they are struggling, ask them if they would like to continue working there. If they say yes, give them another 3-6 months to get their act together before firing them for no substantially legal reason. OR if they continue to struggle, and they're liked by their peers, give them a pay cut! This would save the company money, And it would allow employees a second or even third chance to prove their worth! Not that I don't understand those who are toxic shouldn't keep their job forever, but when they bring in someone new, ask you to train them on a crucial/complex system to serve as your "backup", then proceed to DISALLOW you from maintaining said system, then perhaps it's time to start looking elsewhere. And yes. That did happen to me. And no. I wasn't smart enough then to see the warning signs.
this is absolutely not true, if you leave they have to hire someone to replace you at a comparative rate to the market whether it be through cash or some other option.
@@evilPutty69420 Exactly, that's why the companies have an interest to pay you as little as possible. The competitive edge comes from the fact that you can pressure more people in remaining underpaid in your company in comparison to other companies. It's a matter of survival for companies as some people simply endure underpaid conditions.
@@evilPutty69420 It is absolutely true, that's why the companies have an interest to pay you as little as possible. The competitive edge comes from the fact that you can pressure more people in remaining underpaid in your company in comparison to other companies. It's a matter of survival for companies as some people simply endure underpaid conditions.
I am lucky, because at my job I got very significant raises really quickly. I am now 7 years in I think, and I have tripled my salary at the same company. I could get another 15 to 20% by jumping ship, but there are the intangibles at my current job like having a great boss, the autonomy, the flexible schedule, all of those things. Things that I cannot truly guarantee another job would give me especially not from the start, maybe long-term, but that is a Time investment from me. I can say that we do not give raises like this to low performers those low performers do need to switch their jobs. And there are many of them, and we generally do still give them raises it's just a few% instead of 10/20/30%
It's a weird situation though: I've gotten to that point in my life where I feel the need to do this in order to get promotions and pay raises but at the same time, other companies have caught on. I've been getting grilled in interviews lately about why I left previous jobs and I can't simply say "Because I was getting payed 30% less than the industry rate", or "There were no opportunities for growth". They take that as a failure on my part for either being there or not somehow changing the entire culture of that company to suit my needs. Man, I just want to do a job and get payed enough to afford food and a roof! lol
It is true, totally agree, but sometimes people get paid low because they are not as good as others. When they change a job, nobody knows they are bad and they are good enough to pass an approbation period.
An experience I have had is a misalignment on what things I'm good at versus what the company wants me to be good at. Poor/contentious communication patterns make a lot of my skills difficult enough that I lose the motivation to do a good enough job to be more valuable. This is a slightly different path to becoming the person who isn't becoming much more valuable every year and deserves that 25% pay raise. It's less about believing I deserve a huge pay raise every year and more about knowing I can be better but the company isn't right fit. Thanks for the free therapy 😂
“What are they doing” is called capitalism. They don’t want to spend more, so they let people leave. The onboarding difficulties won’t be on them, but on the employees in that department. They will be rushed, working overtime etc
This is not always the case. Be sure to ask lots of questions yourself in the interviews, particularly concerning work culture there, to find a good fit for you. 😊
Says it's capitalism, literally just describe human nature as if this behavior doesn't exist in other systems. Plus lots of the issue is due to HR, HR exist to deal with all the legal government written laws (not capitalism) and corporate welfare.
@ the “human nature” argument is the most common fallacy. Usually is busted first in any Marxist guide. “Human nature”, rather, what normies call “human nature” is human behavior that depended on current life circumstance. Basically, the game rules. Those change, and “human nature” too.
@@redmictian it’s not capitalism, as Prime explains, because they, the company and employers, are losing money from these frivolous processes. It’s just incompetence, likely an overcrowded HR department hampering workflow
Rogue Company Syndrome, where businesses treat workers like disposable parts, created "the job it's a job" mentality among employees who had to protect themselves. This explains our culture of connectless job hunting: when companies act like rogues, workers learn to keep their distance and that explains your thesis You’re welcome ☺️
I am kinda in this position rn. Granted I am fairly new but with expenses adding up I don't see an option other than taking the leap of faith. I guess I'll stick around for another year or so, brush up interview stuff and then jump. The team is amazing, the seniors are amazing, but I have bills to pay. I am afraid I'll go into a place where I won't see an amazing team and people. I am worried I ran out of luck and this won't come back again.
Small company, joined while a student when 3 devs (one is the lead/manager) as part time. In 2 years I graduated, switched to full time and grew to kinda become a domain expert and naturally took on more responsibilities without being asked. Got a raise each time I asked but the last time I asked they said hey slow down buddy we’ll still give you a raise but lower expectations from now on. Team is now 9 devs, I’m involved in almost all of the projects and I grew a lot since the last raise (1-2Q ago). What do I do? Love the job tbh but it’s kinda draining
It could be because it’s far cheaper to retain one employee considering leaving than to raise salaries for everyone
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But here's the kicker.. If you're a senior dev with intimate knowledge of a million+ lines codebase, replacing that person is gonna cost you maybe a year to 3 years. (paying an entire year salary or even 3 for someone less effective) Or... You have to be like everyone who plays the lottery and fool yourself into thinking you're going to attract a super talent for very little money who is dumb enough to not know his value... You also have to factor in the cost of inefficiency. I think giving someone valuable a 20% wage increase when they ask for it is far cheaper in the end than letting them go and hiring someone for 25-50% the salary of the last person when this new person will be 70-80% less effective..
I don’t think that’s right. It’s not clear that 70-80% of what that super effective engineer is doing is value-added
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@@trussm Yeah, it really depends. I mean.. Tbh.. There are people at my job who have worked there for over 5 years to a decade, but they... Kinda suck. Years nor age alone necessarily say much. Newcomers can outperform pre-existing employees. It's just rare. Especially with larger more convoluted codebases that take a while to get used to. I was just taking a figure for dramatic effect, but it can be accurate depending on what type of business and projects you have.
In my experience everyone is replaceable. I’m mid-career now and at this point I’ve totally eliminated individual performance as a major reason why companies retain certain employees over others unless you’re in sales. You know it’s finances by now. But to go deeper you need to understand managerial finance and HR trends. TLDR; most new business initiatives fail from a financial perspective compared to opportunity cost of doubling down on existing IP. And yet, in a corporate environment you need to invest in new stuff (ie hire) to justify future value bc the company borrowed against their future value. No problem in good times. When bad times come, they can’t truly tell who didn’t perform and you definitely can’t take away from a cash cow so you cut elsewhere. Many great workers get caught in this. It’s been already proven to work very well from a financial perspective.
To bring it full circle those new employees don’t necessarily need to perform that well at first when adding new features because the profits from previous work is rolling in. This definitely has been working financially even though it doesn’t lead to the best products.
Most of the time when they say that money is tight you quickly find out that it is because of poor financial discipline rather than actual financial hardship. What do we need these external consultants for again? Oh, the who and what said this is really important (but it is actually not), like cosmetic changes to workflows on your project management software or the "really important" sensitivity trainings for whatever.
VC firm acquired the start up I work for. We were very underpaid relative to the industry, but we were working for the payoff when we released the final product. If I don't get a major raise from the new company I'm going to look for work. I'm pretty sure if I leave the company will struggle until they replace me.
one more story to the can, worked for 2 years and asked for a raise i didnt get the raise so i resigned. the right play was to job hunt while quiet quitting job (in this case quiet quitting is moral because even not doing much i would be still profitable due to low wage), but i am the kind of person who either gives 100% or 0% so quiet quitting was not an option, and if i still gave 100% i wouldn't have the energy to do the job search. All in all, playing the game will let you have more money and respect, but i would prefer not to play the game as much as possible.
Companies hunt for immediate profit, only .. The concept of "a little expense now is worth it, because there'll be a big profit, later", seems to escape them.
Yep, I always hit them with the yearly "threaten to leave" works like a charm. Go from stupid KPIs/Goals for a 10% raise to forgetting all about that shit for a 25% raise 🤦♂️ They asked for it, so they're getting it.
Currently in a situation where I fucking love my job and the people I work with however I can easily quit for a 30%+ raise. It's something I think about almost every day now. And yeah I've asked for a raise, didn't threaten to quit yet though. It's a big corp so they really won't give a shit for the most part, but the people who make these decisions also don't have any goddamn clue about the project I'm working on.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
I love how the voice of reason and guiding light in our industry is a guy with a mustache just screaming into a microphone. I love your content.
Hey don’t talk about Jimmy like that
It's called the "disloyalty bonus"
It's unfortunately worked for me. I am up 20% in the last couple years through job hopping. I have landed in a great place, hopefully I can break this cycle as I forsee me contributing in big ways to the bottom line and hope to be compensated in turn.
@@CrazyCanuck55 20% isn't necessarily something that'll make me change jobs. I'm looking at more than 100% raise if I swap to pretty much any other job as I am right now though, so... yeah, sorry, but enough is enough.
@@CrazyCanuck55 lmao you 1000000% will not be.
@@SpiritLwerewolf I managed to get over 100% in 3 years with 3 different jobs. Also, you gain more experience jumping ship which makes you stand out and more valuable in the long run.
@@CrazyCanuck55 20%? nice. My payraise was enough to pay my monthly mortage on my car. But it also gives me more money in terms of pension funds, and bonuses, or when I am sick and can not job, the insurance pay me more.
I literally just did this, left a position where I am the absolute domain expert with all the tribal knowledge. Wasn't just because of money that I left, other reasons, too. But after telling my teammembers and management that I'm leaving I think they are all having panic attacks. Doesn't feel great to do, but if complaints go unheard or unactioned, then this is what happens.
I feel bad for your team members, it's not their fault, but management definitely deserves it
simple: I know a lot of people who are afraid to switch jobs. These are the people that these companies take advantage of.
I’m one of those people
lol fr
Maximizing for people too afraid to get a now job sounds really smart.
It's me. I'm people.
@@sto3359but why? Do you think this job is the only job in the world? That that was the last one?
Also don't forget about when you find out that the new guy your company hired who has similar (if not worse) credentials to yourself and NONE of the institutional knowledge that you do has a starting salary higher than your current pay.
Then you make that move to another company for the big 15-30% pay increase, and now you're being paid more than some of their longstanding employees that are training you.
It's profoundly stupid and it wouldn't exist if companies had to be open about how much everyone was paid.
Back in the silent quitting days of 2022, every engineer I worked with slowly quit the project I was on and found 30% pay raise elsewhere. I was one of the few remaining devs on that project. I used that as leverage to get 30% pay raise myself 😂. Since then many have rejoined the company because those mystery companies they went to sucked more than where I work. The grass is not always greener even if they may pay a bit more.
Hi... WebDevCody here... 🎉
And that's why you have an OP channel. you know how to pick your battles
They were given raises when they left and when they came back. No one switches jobs without an incentive. You received only half the opportunities to negotiate they did so you most likely make less than they do now.
I've lived this, but got away from it. Some companies do actually understand the importance of retention.
I work at Visa as a Senior Engineer, and they've been generous. They never ask me to work late or cross my work/life boundaries. I did really well last year, so they gave me a 25 percent raise, promotion, increased my bonus, and gave me significant stock options that vest EVENLY over 3 years (take notes Amazon).
Honestly, I probably wouldn't leave even if I was paid better. I'm scared to leave, not because of pay, but I doubt I'll be this respected in my role wherever I go.
Based and nontoxic.
@@k98killer Why would Amazon take any notes? They do it on purpose.
I really like where I’m working. The pay increases haven’t been substantial and this year there weren’t any because of shareholder appearances. I don’t really want to work somewhere else, but I also don’t want my compensation to stagnate as I’m developing more business knowledge and increasing the breadth of my value. Of either side of that equation was different, it would be an easier decision.
lowkey it seems better to be a software engineer at financial companies than big tech
@@HardcoreGamers115 That's mainly because the financial companies that don't put their big boy pants on tend to die in a very horrible and dramatic fashion.
1:37 hairy caterpillar crawls by next to Prime
😂
I've been a software engineer for over 32 years now and this is exactly how I feel about it. You hit the bullseye here and I can say that working for quite a few organizations.
Yup, spot on, our team consists of only 8 people. It's not a big project compared to most enterprise level software, but it is very niché and the tribal knowledge is deep. We could handle losing one senior, though it would throw us back quite a bit. If two of them quit it would kill the project because our competition would absolutely overtake us by the time new hires have become familiar with the project. I pray our new head of engineering watches this video before the next yearly negotiations come up, because our seniors know what they are worth.
Yea, I've just recently made that exact experience.
Worked for less than average wage for years. Not even during Inflation did me or my colegues get a raise .
Uppon asking the answer was always "If you want more, you got to earn that". How were we supposed to do that if free overtime was expected out of passion and detication? (yea, it was THAT kind of company) Only God knows.
Now at my new Job I got instantly offered 25% than what i had before more and now I feel like I'm overpayed / overvalued. Hope that this does not fall on my feet some day. I'm so anxious.
Your situation sounds very similar to my latest colleague. He also worries about not delivering and loosing his job. Ultimately, these worries does nothing but hinder his enjoyment of what we are doing. I try to encourage him by praising his work and tell him that it's not his responsibility to think about that stuff. Salary is a push and pull game. In the end, you shouldn't hold back out of the goodness of your own conscience, it's not part of your job. There are people hired for that, pulling you down, but no one is hired for pushing you up. It makes no sense to do their job for them. For 99,9999% of companies, they wouldn't even know if you were payed 10x more, it would make no difference to them, but it would most likely be life changing to you. So go out there and get over payed as much as possible, it's ok to be a little greedy sometimes to massively improve your own circumstances!
My first job had amazing retention - like, seniors that were really excellent and top of their game staying there for 10 years+. The reason? An engaged CEO who walked the shop floor and spoke to devs/engineers and rewarded them with excellent wages, bonuses and share options. He eventually sold the company once he decided he wanted to chill, and it immediately went to shit, and loads of people cashed in and left. Ever since then I've rolled new jobs every 3 years or so because of EXACTLY this. Pitiful reward structures keeps everyone on their heels.
This happened to me. Was delayed promotion for 2 years of doing the next level's job, getting exceeds perf reviews. Got a new job with 25% raise and they only offered the promotion and matched salary after I put in my notice. Salary would have been higher than my colleague who was already two pay grades above me
Not just knowing the product, but also knowing the _other_ internal people/process as well. You know who/where to go to get stuff done.
This is 100% true. I just left a job I loved because of this. Today was day 1 of the new job.
that sucks, but also congrats
I saw Uncle Bob give a talk on this (+professionalism) back in 2013 during my 1st job. It completely transformed my mindset and set my career on a great path. Thanks for sharing this idea with your audience - you have to take control of your own career development, and take pride in your craft.
That one inspired me too. Part of the professionalism was to find out that his technical advice wasn't really good though.
Ah, yes. I worked at a place for 5 years and was THE expert on a specific system at the organisation. I had interacted with every single piece of infrastructure for that specific system and knew every person around the org who managed each component (and I was on good terms with them, including an external vendor who used to work with us) - I can confidently say that only one other person out of about 10,000 employees org-wide knew it as well as I did.
After 5 years of working full time, I wanted to drop my loading to a 4 day working week while retaining my pay (so, I wasn't even asking for more money). C-Suite said 'no because reasons', then after 6 months of back and forth I went to another engineering company that paid me significantly more money. I actually kind of miss that job as well, which is sad.
Ridiculous shit, I hope you were able to get your 4 day work week at the new place.
Bro posted while he was live. 🤔
Scheduled? Or master multitasker
Fliiiiiiip
Flip posts the vids
Most ordinary ADHD task management.
Flip, don't zoom in on this comment
I am literally experiencing this right this moment. I am looking for a new job even though I really like my current job, just because I am drastically underpaid. My manager really wants to keep me, but he said executives won't authorize him giving me a raise unless I threaten to leave with an offer from another company.
If your boss wants to keep you but won't see you as valuable enough to get a raise, he doesn't respect you. Get another job offer. And then Take the job offer. That company doesn't deserve your loyalty.
You're not paid what you're worth, only what you negotiate. Companies will pay the least amount they can get away with and get the job done, the money they hired you for was that sum and there's little motivation to increase it since they already had success hiring you.
I worked for Visa, a company that did a 10 billion dollar stock buy back one year (1 million per employee). They were spending 50 million a year on my teams project. But they hired 200 new college grads. They paid staff engineers 130-140k with no bonus or stock. The project was a total failure after 8 years. They never learned that just buying the cheapest engineers they could find was a bad strategy. It was mindblowing that a company which is insanely profitable, could be that cheap. They refused to give raises of more than 1.5% and almost never gave promotions. People just used it as a stepping stone to a real job and they were ok with that.
Hiring budgets are higher than retention budgets, and you're right that it's absolutely stupid in every way. You offer me 2% so I bounce and I get 10% at another company. So you have to replace me but somebody with my level of experience on the open market TODAY is going to cost at least 10% more than I asked for when I joined 2 years ago. So what the company ends up with is paying 10% for an employee who knows the system less. It's bone-headed and nobody learns.
sad reality of corporate culture... 😔
Quite honestly, if i find another job, i'll change jobs so fast that my boss will not have the time to show tears.
Most underpaid developer here, working as a junior, without any senior or mid dev watching over my work, responsible from backend, frontend, devops, testing, db operations, all of it. And its my first job.
I asked for someone above me to monitor my progress and confirm the process and was told that i can pull it on my own, carrying all the responsibility. I asked a raise and it is not given because... They are sure i can handle it. We are going live on January so i sincerely hope that cursor checked my code properly for any possible issues.
Disloyalty has its rewards. Change jobs. Jobs are jobs.
The other issue I take with our industry is the hyper-specialization with zero ability to hop from specialization to specialization. I get it, my C# knowledge isn't 100% applicable to C or C++, but it is still most of the way there, all the underlying concepts are the same, some of the features don't exist. and other ones do exist, but fundamentally, you have this meta-skill called programming that straight up isn't recognized anymore.
You can blame HR for this. Most of them have no clue that learning a new language is trivial for most commonly used languages.
Going from C# to C or C++ isn't a trivial jump, though. You'll probably be more useful than someone early in their career with direct experience with those languages, but I dunno if I'd hire a great C# dev over a good C dev for a job with low level requirements
@@soggy_dev Sure a good C dev would be better at low-level stuff than a good C# dev. But if you're a GREAT C# dev will become a GREAT C dev relatively fast. Because great devs are hard to find.
Not only that, but it's my experience that many jobs will hire nobody before they hire somebody without experience in their specific language. Because HR doesn't know how much of programming is just concepts that are the same across languages.
companies and roles differ, but a decent chunk of C and C++ jobs require someone who actually knows a decent amount about modern computer architecture, and doesn't just treat the machine as most compsci does (as if RAM was as fast as the CPU). that's hard earned knowledge, with way too little training material available. it's also not something most senior devs are really prepared to teach well, given the company even has the time to pull them off projects to teach.
it's often not just a "3-6 months and a dozen code reviews and you're up to speed" kind of thing, as is typically needed in less specialized positions.
(check out casey muratori's courses :P)
@@blarghblarghalready an avid Casey enjoyer.
If they make programmers feel valuable for what they do, then some of them will have demands and influence. They rotate, because they can get away from it and feel safe that no one will replace them that is better or question their decision making. There are people who have council of experts, who they listen to, but it seems always on their terms and they usually keep them in balance. By the way, good idea, about making journal of great things you did, it is probably 2% effort and 80% results for salary discussions.
The most I ever got as a promotion in return "for my loyalty" of 2 years was 4.02%, about half of which was bonuses everyone got during covid. In return for disloyalty, I tripled my salary (even accounting for inflation)
After the job where I spent 2 years, I got fired at the next job (which gave me 10% more pay) for office politics reasons ("you earn too much for how young you are"), and I proceeded to get 50% higher salary at a bank. I thought, that's so much money, I cannot possibly know what to do with all that money.
Our whole division was let go during restructuring. I got 6 months of salary as a kind of "bronze parachute" and for not taking them up to court. I chillaxed for 5 months, and then found a job with DOUBLE the salary I got at the bank.
I just hope I can keep this job as it's quite demanding. If I can keep it, I'm set for life baby.
For context, central Europe
which industry are you in??
@@tonyhart2744 Programming
But but but... We have to maximize shareholder value by committing layoffs to reduce expenses!
Dude, these are such good insights!
For 3 years I didn't get ANY raise. I went from 2.5x the amount of the national _minimum_ salary (while working in IT!), to almost 1x if I worked in a supermarket stacking products on fucking shelves! 😐 It pissed me off so much!
Because of inflation, if you're not getting a raise every month, YOU'RE LOSING MONEY. So the trajectory at 0:07 isn't even flat, it's actually DOWNWARDS! Imagine an inflation of 5-7% every month. If you're not getting a 5-7% raise at your job every month, you're losing money.
Getting paid the same while everything else around you gets more expensive means that the money you're being paid is losing its value.
The "solution" would be to move to another company every 4-6 months for 20-25% increase each time. 😐 And how is THAT gonna look to your next employer, who is looking at your track record and knowing that you'll only be there for 6 months at most???
Our financial system is broken.
i’ve basically created my own projects at work without anyone really asking for these solutions.
i had to build a better solution for something I had created years ago to scale as the business expands, plus started creating a headless web app to connect to my other projects to allow others to access data..
Probably the largest one man project I’ve ever built.
I agree, you have to set the path not the employer.. in terms of your career.
Amen
100% there's a target on your back. It doesn't matter what industry. I've been in 4 industries (automotive, hospitality, entertainment, construction) and currently in my 5th (manufacturing).
You 100% have a target on your back. And it's a shame almost every time. Some folks can fuhk off.
I worked for a company, saved them millions, they laid me off. I had two phone calls for job offers before I got to the car.
So much this. It's been true for my 26 years in the business. I don't ask for raises, I just move on when I'm ready. .
100! Demoralizing as hell, especially if you like where you're at, and they essentially force you to decide between your professional fulfillment and financial success
Literally dealing with that today. Got my promotion, and still getting paid less than every developer employee at my company whilst doing up to Sr Engineer level work, and nobody denies this! I am getting paid entry level pay, and I've been offered $150k from other companies (relocation required so I said no for now), literally more than double my current pay for something I won't be good at for another 1-2 years. This industry is so stupid, no wonder people are quitting, because management refuses to pay out appropriately. We've lost millions (by my estimate) because of this insanity, and upper management won't listen. We are also not a large company by any standards. Welp, their loss at this point. I'll laugh when things crash and burn because I can already see the start lol
Devs: "Yes, bringing in new talent might bring new ideas and skills we don't yet have, but! the team has specialized knowledge which is highly valuable to the company".
Mgmt: "Bring in new talent, so you're telling me there's a chance!"
Until I started working for myself, the optimization was to exert as little mental effort during my short stint at any company. That is, avoiding product caveats and not reaching out to people unless absolutely necessary.
The only thing that kept me in the game was building projects after work that were mentally stimulating and satisfying. It was misery on a level I didn't understand until I got out of it.
I work as a Dev Support Engineer at a big platform
We have so much talent drain that it's astounding. A big portion of why our customers think we suck is because all the talented people leave
This is everywhere, not just the tech industry. Im the operations manager at an offroad tour business. I recently had to tell my boss I was looking for something else because I want to live and not just survive. The time and money it would take to replace what I am responsible for would also take two sane people.
Other thing I think a lot of devs miss that holds back their earnings is really understanding their companies business, and how they impact it. Knowing that lets you much more easily explain why you’re valuable.
“I deserve a raise because I implemented a better test suite” probably doesn’t get you much.
“I deserve a raise because that test suite I implemented reduced our production error rates by 50%, which led to $2 million fewer customer sla credits” makes it much clearer to mgmt why your valuable, and makes it much easier for your direct manager to justify the budget increase to their boss.
learned that the hard way. Was loyal for 10 years with miniscule pay raises. When I left (with an instant 45% payrise) they had to recruit two new staff to replace me because I was overworking myself in the illusion it would earn me a payrise.
Me this week: "I'm increasing my rate 10% in the new year because inflation sucks"
My client who I've been contracting with for over 10 years: "Okay, cool. "
It really was that easy. He knows it'd cost him way more than that to pay someone else to learn to maintain all the projects I've been working on over the last 10 years.
The problem is that programming skill gets you your initial salary, but once you're assimilated and integrated into the company, your increases depend on very abstract factors that are often not in your control, like client feedback, team feedback, business manager feedback, yearly progression plans, and so on. The most optimal way towards getting a salary increase is to cut the BS and change companies every 1-2 years, at least until you hit a soft cap (around the 5-6 work experience mark). Then you can change companies every 3-5 years.
I can envision several frameworks for retaining human capital by rewarding good employees, but any system that requires judging merit will ultimately boil down to the perceptions of several individuals and their ability to form a consensus. Having a good structure may help, but the company would have to have a culture compatible with meritocracy which would already lead to the same outcome regardless of the structure for the structure to work anyway.
When an employer becomes unsatisfactory, for any reason you don't negotiate, you don't talk to them about it. You prepare to leave, and then you leave silently, finally, and with no drama. Turn your equipment in and leave. Part of your Preparation strategy should be pricing your consulting services should they require your assistance after your employment relationship is over. But most companies would rather chew rocks if it means being in the power position so YMMV
show this to my manager please!
there are workplaces that train you up and workplaces that give you useful pay bumps. they're not common, and they don't tend to hire a lot of people.
part of the problem is that many managers, whether they mean to or not, see employees as a "done deal", and people who aren't yet hired the way someone might think of an ebay auction. the potential of an employee who you haven't yet hired, that might get away, looks a lot more shiny.
but part of the problem is just math. the places doing the most hiring are the places who treat employees most like a commodity, with the most turnover.
I needed this. Really. Ill update my resume during my coming two weeks off.
Did you update your resume yet?
@@NostraDavid2 Not yet. I have two weeks off starting this weekend.
I just started at a new company, me and another dev on a super efficient and fast paced team. The amount of tribal knowledge flowing through that team is insane, and part of what is exciting/challenging is not dragging the velocity down and trying to keep up. My thought is if I can operate at that level my value to the company /team will help me max out those bonuses+pay bumps
Saw a slide that estimated 60k to backfill a senior dev position. Roll that into consistent RSU or something tied to retention and everyone can relax and just focus on the work instead of gaming the system.
Companies do this because over time the value that an employee produces grows faster than their rate of pay increases. They win by giving you as little as possible needed to keep you there. They exploit the fact that it is significantly more disruptive to switch jobs for a person than it is for a business to hire a new employee.
It doesn't matter, you should switch every two to three years. When you dont change, you are skills remain stagnant and they will replace you with a fresh face that brings in new ideas
Best channel I've ever subscribed, good job!
This is why I try to convert personal knowledge into institutional knowledge.
Similar to replacing resources with processes. Processes are repeatable.
This year I became a senior, i was let go after 3 months (ADHD), and joined another company who gave me thr time, and now i have tribal knowledge, im effective and score an average senior score, which i am thrilled with actually. Next year im going to be above average.
as someone who has been at the same company for 10 years, I am a unicorn. Everybody leaves eventually; also inefficient for those of us who stay.
I had an apprenticeship interview with a company and the first thing they mentioned is their
it's because people generally aren't paying attention. even management. they focus on the costs in dollar terms, not in other terms. it's a side effect of a system of trade based on a single measure of points (money)
Super glad to be in a company which gives adequate raises which is why I have stayed for the past 4+ years, making double now
It's inertia - companies don't like change, employees don't like change
The companies do this as they would otherwise go down under. The only reason why it functions because there are enough people who let themselves get trampled on.
I think companies do this because there are not only people who let themselves get trampled on, but also people that are learning, and are not yet ready to get paid more.
Not because they don't have the knowledge or aren't willing to do stuff, but because they lack the experience, such as to have a fast response to certain situations, and high awareness to what the products they're working on are doing
Except they still end up paying ~10% more for this "new talent" anyways, as opposed to just giving a fair raise to existing employees that would cost them less!
The solution is simple: companies need to adjust how wage "increases" are handed out. If an employee is excelling, the increase is larger. If they are struggling, ask them if they would like to continue working there. If they say yes, give them another 3-6 months to get their act together before firing them for no substantially legal reason. OR if they continue to struggle, and they're liked by their peers, give them a pay cut! This would save the company money, And it would allow employees a second or even third chance to prove their worth! Not that I don't understand those who are toxic shouldn't keep their job forever, but when they bring in someone new, ask you to train them on a crucial/complex system to serve as your "backup", then proceed to DISALLOW you from maintaining said system, then perhaps it's time to start looking elsewhere.
And yes. That did happen to me. And no. I wasn't smart enough then to see the warning signs.
this is absolutely not true, if you leave they have to hire someone to replace you at a comparative rate to the market whether it be through cash or some other option.
@@evilPutty69420 Exactly, that's why the companies have an interest to pay you as little as possible. The competitive edge comes from the fact that you can pressure more people in remaining underpaid in your company in comparison to other companies.
It's a matter of survival for companies as some people simply endure underpaid conditions.
@@evilPutty69420 It is absolutely true, that's why the companies have an interest to pay you as little as possible. The competitive edge comes from the fact that you can pressure more people in remaining underpaid in your company in comparison to other companies.
It's a matter of survival for companies as some people simply endure underpaid conditions.
Working at a company with consistent quality raises makes my life so much easier.
I am lucky, because at my job I got very significant raises really quickly. I am now 7 years in I think, and I have tripled my salary at the same company. I could get another 15 to 20% by jumping ship, but there are the intangibles at my current job like having a great boss, the autonomy, the flexible schedule, all of those things. Things that I cannot truly guarantee another job would give me especially not from the start, maybe long-term, but that is a Time investment from me.
I can say that we do not give raises like this to low performers those low performers do need to switch their jobs. And there are many of them, and we generally do still give them raises it's just a few% instead of 10/20/30%
It's a weird situation though: I've gotten to that point in my life where I feel the need to do this in order to get promotions and pay raises but at the same time, other companies have caught on. I've been getting grilled in interviews lately about why I left previous jobs and I can't simply say "Because I was getting payed 30% less than the industry rate", or "There were no opportunities for growth". They take that as a failure on my part for either being there or not somehow changing the entire culture of that company to suit my needs. Man, I just want to do a job and get payed enough to afford food and a roof! lol
I switched jobs twice since I began working in tech three years ago. Both times came with a 33% raise. 10/10 would switch again.
Accepting the counter offer was a mistake for me. I stayed, when I should have left.
Great chat, sometimes money isn't everything, flexibility to work towards your goals is more important
It is true, totally agree, but sometimes people get paid low because they are not as good as others. When they change a job, nobody knows they are bad and they are good enough to pass an approbation period.
It's the bean counter mentality. They know the cost of everything but the value of nothing.
When I became a PM I quadrupled my salary by threatening to leave and then leaving a year later. It makes absolutely no sense.
i've gone back to my first company 4 times now. My old coworker who never left makes much less than i do. this is real people.
An experience I have had is a misalignment on what things I'm good at versus what the company wants me to be good at. Poor/contentious communication patterns make a lot of my skills difficult enough that I lose the motivation to do a good enough job to be more valuable.
This is a slightly different path to becoming the person who isn't becoming much more valuable every year and deserves that 25% pay raise. It's less about believing I deserve a huge pay raise every year and more about knowing I can be better but the company isn't right fit.
Thanks for the free therapy 😂
Save Money in short term and loose in long. They value new guy more than the existing one.
“What are they doing” is called capitalism. They don’t want to spend more, so they let people leave. The onboarding difficulties won’t be on them, but on the employees in that department. They will be rushed, working overtime etc
This is not always the case. Be sure to ask lots of questions yourself in the interviews, particularly concerning work culture there, to find a good fit for you. 😊
Says it's capitalism, literally just describe human nature as if this behavior doesn't exist in other systems. Plus lots of the issue is due to HR, HR exist to deal with all the legal government written laws (not capitalism) and corporate welfare.
@ the “human nature” argument is the most common fallacy. Usually is busted first in any Marxist guide.
“Human nature”, rather, what normies call “human nature” is human behavior that depended on current life circumstance. Basically, the game rules. Those change, and “human nature” too.
@@redmictian it’s not capitalism, as Prime explains, because they, the company and employers, are losing money from these frivolous processes. It’s just incompetence, likely an overcrowded HR department hampering workflow
wait lol “marxist guide” get the fuck out of here
If I work for a year, I got + 1 year of experience, and also inflation exists, so yes, I think there should be a yearly raise automatically.
Rogue Company Syndrome, where businesses treat workers like disposable parts, created "the job it's a job" mentality among employees who had to protect themselves. This explains our culture of connectless job hunting: when companies act like rogues, workers learn to keep their distance and that explains your thesis
You’re welcome ☺️
I am kinda in this position rn.
Granted I am fairly new but with expenses adding up I don't see an option other than taking the leap of faith. I guess I'll stick around for another year or so, brush up interview stuff and then jump. The team is amazing, the seniors are amazing, but I have bills to pay. I am afraid I'll go into a place where I won't see an amazing team and people. I am worried I ran out of luck and this won't come back again.
I agree with the rake in the end, your employer shouldn't dictate your career, it's you who paves your path and uses your employer to help with that
It's all McKinseys fault.
HR are getting bonus when hiring but nothing for keeping employees.
Small company, joined while a student when 3 devs (one is the lead/manager) as part time. In 2 years I graduated, switched to full time and grew to kinda become a domain expert and naturally took on more responsibilities without being asked. Got a raise each time I asked but the last time I asked they said hey slow down buddy we’ll still give you a raise but lower expectations from now on. Team is now 9 devs, I’m involved in almost all of the projects and I grew a lot since the last raise (1-2Q ago). What do I do? Love the job tbh but it’s kinda draining
Start scouting around, hard to know what out there when you've only ever been in 1 company
funny how his voice is similar to michael scott from the office, what's more surprising is that primeagen's real name is also michael
When the skills necessary to get the pay increase aren't related to being valuable in the role.
It could be because it’s far cheaper to retain one employee considering leaving than to raise salaries for everyone
But here's the kicker..
If you're a senior dev with intimate knowledge of a million+ lines codebase, replacing that person is gonna cost you maybe a year to 3 years. (paying an entire year salary or even 3 for someone less effective)
Or... You have to be like everyone who plays the lottery and fool yourself into thinking you're going to attract a super talent for very little money who is dumb enough to not know his value...
You also have to factor in the cost of inefficiency.
I think giving someone valuable a 20% wage increase when they ask for it is far cheaper in the end than letting them go and hiring someone for 25-50% the salary of the last person when this new person will be 70-80% less effective..
I don’t think that’s right. It’s not clear that 70-80% of what that super effective engineer is doing is value-added
@@trussm Yeah, it really depends.
I mean.. Tbh.. There are people at my job who have worked there for over 5 years to a decade, but they... Kinda suck.
Years nor age alone necessarily say much.
Newcomers can outperform pre-existing employees.
It's just rare. Especially with larger more convoluted codebases that take a while to get used to.
I was just taking a figure for dramatic effect, but it can be accurate depending on what type of business and projects you have.
In my experience everyone is replaceable. I’m mid-career now and at this point I’ve totally eliminated individual performance as a major reason why companies retain certain employees over others unless you’re in sales. You know it’s finances by now. But to go deeper you need to understand managerial finance and HR trends. TLDR; most new business initiatives fail from a financial perspective compared to opportunity cost of doubling down on existing IP. And yet, in a corporate environment you need to invest in new stuff (ie hire) to justify future value bc the company borrowed against their future value. No problem in good times. When bad times come, they can’t truly tell who didn’t perform and you definitely can’t take away from a cash cow so you cut elsewhere. Many great workers get caught in this. It’s been already proven to work very well from a financial perspective.
To bring it full circle those new employees don’t necessarily need to perform that well at first when adding new features because the profits from previous work is rolling in. This definitely has been working financially even though it doesn’t lead to the best products.
Most of the time when they say that money is tight you quickly find out that it is because of poor financial discipline rather than actual financial hardship.
What do we need these external consultants for again? Oh, the who and what said this is really important (but it is actually not), like cosmetic changes to workflows on your project management software or the "really important" sensitivity trainings for whatever.
This is generally true only for companies with HR departments. Be the big fish in the small pond.
5:01 There's a company that values valuable employees? *surprised Pikachu *
VC firm acquired the start up I work for. We were very underpaid relative to the industry, but we were working for the payoff when we released the final product. If I don't get a major raise from the new company I'm going to look for work. I'm pretty sure if I leave the company will struggle until they replace me.
one more story to the can, worked for 2 years and asked for a raise i didnt get the raise so i resigned. the right play was to job hunt while quiet quitting job (in this case quiet quitting is moral because even not doing much i would be still profitable due to low wage), but i am the kind of person who either gives 100% or 0% so quiet quitting was not an option, and if i still gave 100% i wouldn't have the energy to do the job search. All in all, playing the game will let you have more money and respect, but i would prefer not to play the game as much as possible.
Preach! I wonder how the pay upgrade chats go when Primeagen emails Primegen HR for a chat.
Companies hunt for immediate profit, only ..
The concept of "a little expense now is worth it, because there'll be a big profit, later", seems to escape them.
Great convo. Can't relate, though. Still can't find a job. 😢
You join this year which is cheaper than the guy who's been there since last year so the quarter is better.
Yep, I always hit them with the yearly "threaten to leave" works like a charm. Go from stupid KPIs/Goals for a 10% raise to forgetting all about that shit for a 25% raise 🤦♂️
They asked for it, so they're getting it.
Thank you as it good to these things in mind working or voluteering.
I saw the title of the video as asked myself if I was about to get fired. Jesus.
The same people you are referring to are the same people championing DEI and where civilization goes to die: HR
Same thing in the accounting space. Stay get a 3% increase. Leave, get 30% minimum.
Currently in a situation where I fucking love my job and the people I work with however I can easily quit for a 30%+ raise. It's something I think about almost every day now. And yeah I've asked for a raise, didn't threaten to quit yet though. It's a big corp so they really won't give a shit for the most part, but the people who make these decisions also don't have any goddamn clue about the project I'm working on.