@@rmmr1168 Do you also think we should stop reproducing completely because there will be a miniscule percentage of parents who are going to abuse their children. How stupid way to look at life. On average, parents aren't abusive. Even more for parents who are consciously choosing to give up their career to homeschool their children. Just because there will be exceptions of such cases, doesn't make the idea as abusive.
I saw someone describe it as yet another way, along with homeschooling, for people who don't want to engage with society at large to further achieve that goal. So you'll get reclusive right-wing religious types, as well as "alternative medicine" hippie types from all across the political spectrum. The biggest victims are the children, who are forced into resentful co-dependency as adults and have severely limited career prospects and general autonomy.
I still see the main good of public schooling is socialization with peers and providing minors a space free from their parents/caretakers. Fro children from not healthy homes, this is a VERY important freedom. The children who parents are most against children leaving them for schooling are probably the children who most need that ability.
Parents in unhealthy homes are glad to send their kids to public school. It's a way to get the kids away for a large chunk of the day. It's usually homes with abundant resources and hyper-vigilant parents that homeschool their kids.
@@kazuya99aceNo, it's usually religious fundamentalists and other ultra controlling types. You can provide your child with more reading, math, etc. at home but it is very difficult to provide your child with a diverse group of peers at home.
One of our biggest problems in the US is that schools are funded based on the income and taxes of the zip code. Poor areas get little funding, so kids in poor areas get poor education and are therefore less likely to get good jobs. Kids in richer areas get much better education and better opportunities. It perpetuates inequality.
Brazilian educator here! So glad to see you talking about Paulo Freire, especially within the subject of "alternative education". His respectful approach gave meaning, a reason to why we learn, and in my point of view, that in itself is revolutionary.
I was homeschooled but in a structured environment approved by the state. Even so, I'm now a public-school teacher and my kids all attend public schools. One reason I rejected that kind of thing was that I realized once I got to college that the "let him read and figure out the truth for himself" didn't actually serve me well as I fell under influence of things I read without necessarily thinking critically. You can't believe everything. Great video as always, Alice!
That *YOU* weren’t taught how to critically think in *YOUR* homeschool upbringing does not mean that *ALL* homeschool curricula fails as miserably as your parents’. It is unfortunate that your failure to adapt in childhood persists into your adulthood.
@@addammadd And yet enough use it as an excuse to leave future citizens unable to engage with society. Nah, it needs to be illegal. Were you homeschooled?
@@addammaddThat YOU didn't learn how to critically think in YOUR public school does not mean ALL students fail as miserably as you. It is unfortunate your failure to adapt in childhood persists in your adulthood.
I'm in NC in the USA. Public education funding has been de-funded for many years. 2 decades ago, my middle and high school teachers would say "because of our budget" for many different reasons. And it's STILL an ongoing issue. The state is constantly ranked at the bottom for teacher pay. The republican dominated congress refuses to increase funding for public education in favor of spending billions on private school vouchers which only cover a fraction of students. There is a domino effect that occurs when everyone in a state isn't guaranteed quality education, so I find the mistreatment of public education very dangerous.
I was moved (against my will) to NC in 1978 from NY, where I really enjoyed school. It was both challenging & rewarding. In NC, however, so little was asked of me that I literally didn't open a book. I used to play chess with a friend of mine in English class, where none of the 'American Classics' were read. I came out with a great GPA, but any desire to further my schooling had been drained out of me. I lament for kids in the same school system now. Still pathetic. I have come to believe (I now have two degrees) that the main goal of school should be to teach the students how to grow their curiosities, their creativity, to instill in them a life long pursuit of knowledge & experience (yes, there should be a certain basis of knowledge upon which they can build). The school I attended in NY was structured so that the students chose a major to explore before they even thought about college. Instead, I went to a school that was largely comprised of mobile homes as classrooms. I do know that in the SC state constitution it mandates a 'minimally adequate education.'
@@mcrumph Similar experience! I moved from NJ to NC in the 2010s in the middle of highschool. I went from a public school that had endless elective class choices, where a part of the curriculum was exploring multiple fields to a NC school where you had to 'enter a lottery' to get a spot in an ART class. All my classes were also in mobile trailer homes and yes, the bathrooms were also outside. They didn't even have enough 'honor students' to dedicate a room to, so the four of us sat against the wall of a regular english class. The only difference was we were given one more essay to write at the end of the year lol. What a joke, I felt so bad for my classmates.
@@JoJo-is-the-name I'm experiencing some cognitive dissonance right now; so let me ask you this: Should I feel comforted others have experienced what I did (some thirty-odd years later), or depressed, knowing that nothing has changed (& likely won't in the future)? Yes, I would have taken 9 classes ranging from mechanical drafting to perspective to anatomy in my drawing focus. In NC, when I asked, the principle said, 'yes, we have art 1 & art 2,' but neither contained any real instruction.
Doesn't bode well for those wanting to go for colleges either. 3.6 high school GPA, and I still got into what is basically Ivy League for compsci. How did I, with a comparably crummy GPA get into such a good school? Because my school was in NYC, where my particular school has more funding than what the principal knows what to do with. I know of other students whose parents put them in crummy schools with the express intention of having them be the valedictorian, only for them to end up in places like Stony Brook. Stony Brook is a pretty good school, but when I asked some of my friends to compare coursework, well, what their classes cover in sophomore year, my classes already covered in freshman.
My problem with a lot of these home schooling/unschooling parents is that they are often showing basic parenting as some sort of school. As if they shouldn’t also be doing these things with their kids even if they were in school.Spending time with your kids and teaching them basic life skills is your responsibility as a parent. It’s not either or 🤷♀️ Also, I’m often very confused what other countries public schools are like. The ones in my country mix book learning, physical activity, art and learning life skills together. Things like cooking, sewing, carpentry and using a computer were all classes I had to take from 1st to 7th grade. I’d usually only spend half my school day with books before 8th grade when we started taking electives and you could choose what classes you took for 2-3 classes a day. What are other public schools doing all day? How do get children to sit all day?
In my country, children are made to sit all day by humiliation. Teachers are unquestionable authorities who can dole out emotional abuse freely, and even a certain form of physical abuse (refusing to let a child out to use the restroom during class - i went to a fancy public high school cca 15 years ago and yes every class had a kid who shat themselves at some point). 'Behaviour' is also graded along with 'Diligence' just as say Math or Literature is graded. This of course is made possible by the fact that ours is a very authoritative culture, most parents treat their kids in very abusive ways also. And yes all of the above does result a teacher getting stabbed or beaten in schools pretty regularly. We also have 'school police' now, which did not exist during my childhood but did in some form during my parents and grandparents time.
In mine school is only 4hs a day and it doesn't include things like cooking, carpentry and sewing. The average parent works more than 8hs a day so eventually kids do end up learning that kind of life skills out of necessity.
@@tiredcatman7381 Why only 4h? Also for teens? For 1st-4th grade we also only had 4-5h, then later 6-8h. If your parents worked day jobs you could go to after school programs until 16:00 or 17:00 depending on the school. But book learning was always only half the day, and we’d not have all these things in one week for all the years. Art, cooking, PE and swimming were once a week for 1-8th grade.
@@lilith1557 That sounds crazy to me, but sounds closer to how school was for my grandfather in the 30s. When I was a kid in 90s things had changed quite a bit, and changed more as I became an adult. Children today in my country are considered their own people outside their parents. They have rights and a special status of protection because of their youth. Parents have a responsibility towards the child, they are not property of their parents. Which is why homeschooling is generally not allowed. It’s considered a violation of the child’s right to education with their peers.
@@lifeinabook839 4hs in 1st to 6th grade in school and 5hs if no teacher was absent in 1st to 6th years of high school. Both are 5 days a week. There's some "full time schools" that have 7:30hs, but they're rare. Only 44 to cover the capital which aprox 1.5mill ppl. And no full time high schools.
I was homeschooled structurally for a couple years (I went back to school at age 12) but a lot of my social circle was “unschooled” children my age. The main argument the parents had was that the children “learned at their own pace”. Most of the children didn’t know how to read or do basic maths at age 11 even. The most they could do was spell their own name, no more. I was always grateful that I was at school from ages 3 to 10 because it set me up to be able to do basic things. As someone who has been home educated, conventionally schooled and been around unschooled children, my opinion on unschooling is that it sets children up for failure in adulthood.
Do you have any idea how it panned out for those kids? Did they catch up over time? Spend the rest of their lives on benefits? Or (my personal suspicion based on minimal evidence!) are they from affluent families who have enough resources that it doesn’t really matter, little Arlo will be able to get a “job” doing interior design for daddy’s rich friends?
@@katerose8393 haha most of the families in my circle were on government benefits so most of the parents didn’t work. A lot of the kids would end up trying school in their teens but not many stayed. Most of them were artsy so they went on to do dancing, performing or acting or something but usually it would end up that they were on benefits.
You nailed it that she's not actually opposed to the system, she's just trying to gain it. Most people would not be able to afford the 'luxury' of unschooling. She's likely wealthy enough to provide cushioning for her to 'experiment' and screw up her children's education, and have trust funds for them to fall back on.
Honestly, I feel like the biggest downside to unschooling is that you have to be fairly disciplined and organized in order to make it work in the sense that you have to be able to take what your kids are interested in and construct or find learning opportunities around those tasks and ideas. I feel like it can be really easy to just say that you'll watch a bunch of youtube videos on it with your kids or make an art project with that theme. Not that those things are bad for learning, but the learning has to go beyond what is easy or convenient, and falling into that trap of doing what is easy is incredibly likely if you're not disciplined.
@MarshalMarrs-eu9yh I'd prefer it for schools to be semi standardized on a state level. Have the public schools share administration and record keeping across the state. As for private schools, if they don't take public tax dollars, I'd prefer the government not bother. And yes, I consider school vouchers for privates and charters as accepting public tax money. Shared admin is how cities like NYC and Boston structure their public schools. Outcomes are apparently comparable to private schools in those same cities, sometimes even better. Yeah, the schools could be better, but no one seems to want to build new schools to ameliorate the overcrowding issue that's been around for about 20 years now.
you can easily link both... most manual tasks require some math or Reading instructions for exemple. you can totally create compound activities in addition to specific lessons
@@thedudewhoeatspianos not a math proof but try building anything without geometry or any mechanics without force vectors and come back then. I never said you can pair everything but you definitely can do it for huge parts of curriculum, this is how trade schools work for example
@@thedudewhoeatspianos we did that at school, we used the carpentry workshop work to learn geometry and derive formulas, then write proofs to accompany our visual physical demonstrations. But this was not in the US, I've heard your educational system is absolutely awful and by my interactions with Muh'ricans I believe it is.
I'm around a lot of parents with young kids living in the US in California. Many of them have decided to homeschool, but the conversation has never been around what the kids are being taught but rather the prevalence of school shootings. Most parents I know have chosen homeschooling out of fear for their child's safety. Just hoping to add an extra layer of perspective here.
I homeschooled my kid for 2.5 years (from mid-6th thru 8th, went to traditional high school as planned) because he fell behind due to some bad curricula/poor teachers/bullying in public and parochial schools. He was at least 2 years behind in everything when we started (couldn’t multiply or divide) and was a year ahead (finished algebra 1) when he went back. He went from not being able to write a sentence to being able to write outlines and essays. That said, we homeschoolers don’t talk about the unschoolers. That’s what gets thrown at us when we’re trying to help our kids.
I just recently discovered your channel - you have such a nuanced view of things, it's so hard to find this sort of discussion on the internet. Thank you!
As a neurodivergent human I see the appeal of homeschool and have all sorts of problems with the education systems from grade school to post secondary. Due to the disciplinary and banking methods, I’ve been subjected to bullying by students and a teacher and out of Highschool I barely remember what was “banked” into my mind. Teachers are just told to fill these boxes without consideration of how these children will survive and function in society. However I don’t think taking your kids out of school is the answer, either the entire school system needs to be overhauled or we look to community for education and with how stressed parents are I don’t blame them for either decision. I hate that education is a battleground for adults ideologies, I’d like to have a class on queer history or the struggles of people of colour but I also want to know how to manage money, identify shady workplace practices, cook my own meals and sew. My mothers generation had these skills in their education field yet now they’re barely a thing anymore. Yet they’re skills that we should be using over our lifetime. Education should be about personal enrichment, building practical skills and giving/receiving new points of view with your peers. My Highschool grade practically begged our math teachers to teach us how to do taxes and most of us didn’t absorb that knowledge because it was one class session covering it in a preplanned curriculum that went full speed with no brakes.
18:00 as I see it, that's not abolishing the family. Instead it is actually allowing family to be a building block of society by not isolating one from the other!
Michel Foucault: school is like prison Home schooling parents from tiktok: ogey *unschools* Michel Foucault: how could you possibly think that's what I meant *another day another banger*
Yep, the whole video was very confusing. Homeschooling seems the only idea to rid of evils of schooling like discrimination, bullying, shame etc in their formative years which will haunt them for their whole lives. Because there are some issues with homeschooling, don't throw the baby with the bathwater. Its the way of the future.
one of the drawbacks I see in homeschooling is the apparent lack of peer review on the part of the parents. in schools we have regular council meetings on top of all the bureaucracy that ensures no decision is made by a single person. to leave that on the hands of a single parent (who might also be in charge of caring of the home) seems highly problematic to me
This is important. Same thing goes for one parent being the teacher for all the grades and subjects. Even in elementary school there are specialist teachers for music, art, and gym, and after 5th grade every subject has a specialized teacher. My mother for sure wouldn’t have given me a quality education in every single subject, and she never got a quality arts education, so that would have been passed down to me (and I grew up to become a musician thanks to having music teachers at my public school)
It only works for upper midle class people. Without a degree in Brasil you are going to starve or have a terrible job, so I don't see that trend beeing relevant enough to the majority of people.
As someone who was homeschooled (not in the US) I would agree with your take. It worked out for my brothers and I, but we were very lucky. There were a couple groups of homeschoolers in our area that we joined in order to make friends and share teaching resources etc. Of my friends from that time I’m only aware of a couple who have gone on to do post secondary education or much of anything with their lives. Many of these friends were people who had mental health issues and had had really negative experiences in the public school system because of them. Rather than giving them the space to get better, homeschooling often gave them the space for their mental health problems to become their identity. Like you can go to all the therapy in the world but if you don’t have the motivation to do the work afterwards you are not going to get better. These were the outcomes in what i would describe as the ideal scenario for homeschooling.
There is a VAST difference between homeschooling and "unschooling" Onomi is literally not teaching her children anything specifically about reading or writing. She is "teaching them life skills" which is what every good parent should be ALSO teaching their children. Her children cleaning the car for an afternoon is not actually preparing them for the modern workforce beyond manual labor.
You wouldn’t want your kids to be held back because of your own biases. In The Netherlands we have schools serving any kind of beliefs or teaching concept. There are very few legal reasons to allow home schooling. According to Wikipedia only 0,05 percent do not attend a school. From the age of 5 to the age of 17 a child is in school.
I have a few friends who immigrated from your oppressive country (NL) to where I live because their kids (Autism spectrum) are bullied by ableist like you who call our neurodiversity a "bias"- first rule of thriving with autism; Do not give a fuck about people who are too closed minded to accept your difference.
Public schools aren't subsidized effectively, and too many teachers are paid almost nothing. Teachers are just people who can get discouraged and overwhelmed, and their students lose out in that scenario. I had a history teacher in high school who once spent the entire length of a class talking about how girls should feel empowered cause they're so pretty. It felt completely normal at the time, but now I look back as an adult and clearly remember losing 45 minutes of learning to a frumpy man's deep dissatisfaction with his job. Dude was completely checked out. Teachers get no support, but somehow when they suck, it's impossible to fire them. I remember multiple teachers I had mention their roommates, and now realize how wrong that is. I also remember one of the teachers in my high school having a nervous breakdown, and I kinda get why now.
Thank you for giving a fair hearing to real unschooling. I hate that a couple of TikTokers can twist the idea and turn a million ppl against unschooling because they don't know what they're talking about.
I went to a high school in the 80s that was part of the public school system, but was largely modeled after SummerHill School in the UK. Lots of freedom. Also a lot of consequences (good and bad). I didn't go to class for most of my freshman year (freedom). Then I got kicked out (consequence). I lucked out having a teacher there who believed in me enough to keep me in and I started figuring my shit out-because I wanted the freedom, independence, autonomy, but I understood how easily it could be taken away (because of my inaction).
I don't mean to diminish manual tasks, i think they are very important, but only if they are accompanied by the explanation of the logics of it. It is really important to develop abstract knowledge and thinking. As a teacher myself i have to deal constantly with the impossibilities of the students to think beyond the material thing in front of them or the abstract conecpts beyond themselves
It bothers me that the baby is thrown out with the bathwater when it comes to so many formerly counterculture ideas that have become adopted by groups behaving in problematic ways. There tends to be a lack of perspective taking, a lack of allocentric acknowledgement of what others are correct about (not that the truth is always in the middle of two opposites), and too much focus on others being wrong (according to the perception of the critic, the critic's perception not necessarily being wrong). It's counterproductive. Thanks for not engaging in that behavior, Alice!🙂
It seems like a form of egocentrism that the parents want to impart their own idea or believe onto the children. They don't give them the choice to think outside the scope of their parents ideals.
I'm Brazilian, my children grew up as unschoolers, but we always gave them the option of choice, in order to reinforce the power of their own decision. At the age of 12, they chose to go to school, and now, at the end of high school, I see that they are much more confident in their decisions than most. The fact that they go to school out of self-interest greatly changes the individual's disposition
Wish my dad was that cool when they separated when I was 14. All that happened was that he leeched off of my interests (concerts, parties, social groups, etc.) and basically made his new home into a metaphorical second childhood. Ironically, I think school was an escape from the rockiness of that kind of home life, so I think there's some value in having a world outside of there.
There aren't a set number of values like progressive or conservative that you have to choose from. You have to raise your kids to have the ability to think for themselves. Many things have nuances in real life. If your kid after becoming an adult ends up disagreeing with your view as a result of being tought to think for themselves, that's a good thing. Maybe your views weren't as good as you thought, newer generations are supposed to get better not worse.
As a new American educator, I have two points. 1) Many schools are deeply self-conscious about how much choice they provide and are eager for opportunities for choice, or manual education pathways. For example, there was a mandatory workshop class in middle school. 2) The structures can actually be very beneficial. As I started the year with weak structures, the students were preoccupied with interpersonal stuff and broadly spent the day stressed or lost. However, as the structures tightened in, everyone had something to do. While grade motivation has so many negatives, it’s a stepping stone to get students to confront challenging tasks immediately and implicitly. From there, you can build out dialogue, strategizing, and so on. The unschooling writings sound very partial to a “corrupted nature,” when in fact the actual path to fulfillment often takes so many prerequisites that I think many take for granted. Wonderful video!
Hitting the nail on the head. If we only teach children the things they come to ask about, they will rarely encounter tougher subjects. What kid is going to come up to their parents and ask "mommy what's an electric field?" Overcoming things that are difficult is a key concept of school, as well as dealing with disappointment, planning and organising, and becoming independent from your parents.
As an autistic transgender person I definitely have to disagree with the second point. The "structure" in my school almost destroyed me before I was even 10 years old. The the state thinks of disabled people mostly as an inconvenience, including school children. As for the expectations of gender conformity they traumatised me for life. In fact even to this day my transphobic and ableist brother-in-law advocates that all children need to go to school to learn to conform. When the chief advocate in my life for the perspective of what is often described as "structure" it becomes a very hard to take that perspective seriously. It's very frustrating that people see children as a fluid to be moulded by those with power. Transgender and disabled children included.
@@PlurCo see but you fall outside of most children by being autistic and I say this as an autistic person you are not every autistic person that structure is what allowed me to function everyone is different but one thing I can say is most neurotypical children will also benefit from a structure You are the exception not the rule
I'm so glad you discussed the history and philosophy of unschooling. I'm nearly 60 now, but growing up in the 70s I heard about the radical education movement, and started reading about it - including home schooling, unschooling, free schools, democratic schools, deschooling, and so on. I had a very unpleasant home life and my mediocre public schools just made me feel worse. As I grew up I began trying to understand why I hated school so much, and I realized it was because the people who ran them had little or no interest in students. And the rare exceptions still had to work within a system that was designed to destroy the mental and emotional life of children. So I began to see myself as a secret revolutionary, biding my time until I was released from my prison. The philosophies of radical education and anarchism - via the writings of people like Paul Goodman, A. S. Neill, and John Holt - gave me hope that another way of life was possible. To see all this reduced to trendy tiktoks and outraged commentary has been truly surreal. I could have guessed that Alice would never indulge in such nonsense! Thanks!
I admire the early Greco-Roman approach to learning. Where schools were movements dedicated to a particular philosophical, artistic or scientific thought.
One big consideration for the meteoric rise in home schooling in the US is gun violence. In no other *industrialized, peacetime countries* in the world do parents have to deal with this at this scale. I think daily about pulling my kids out of the public schools they love for this very reason.
Thank you... coupled with (speaking only of my local school option) huge drug issues within the school and constant violence between students that leads to police presence. It's such a difficult thing to think through as a parent and you have to make the best choice you can.
Home school is a part of the school choice movement that is being pushed and funded by conservative groups here in the states. And, I think that our two tiered education system, that is pay to play because urban schools are underfunded, is the real issue here. Now, one could take a deep dive into the impacts of NCLB, the emphasis on pair/group work, impossible class sizes, terrible educational research working it's way into classrooms, shifts in pedagogy toward minimal direct instruction time, and the insane amount of office work teachers are expected to do, among other things, but I also think that, when we create quantitative targets, that measure school leader success, they tend to incentivize poor performance.
The danger of homeschooling, even the one you'd most agree with, is that children do not engage with enough different people, including some difficult ones, to develop healthy social skills.
@@Just_some_guy_1 I've been in that hell, because I'm different. And it was shit. And it learned me a lot, I found quicker how to manage myself in different environments. Considering my parents as my homeschoolers however would have been way way worse, especially my father.
What's funny is that right now (in France), teaching on primary school and nursery school has pretty much completly shift from the normative formation. We know try to teach the kids to be curious and, as we say "the learner has to be the center of the learning" and everything have to come from them. The teacher is just here to orientate the questionning, validate the reflexions or give advices (and of course, to formulate the conclusion in a pragmatic way once the pupils have reach their goal). It's not the easest way to teach, and it demands a lot from the teacher and the institution, but as studies had shown us... it is the best way to teach so far. Anway, great video ! (I'm so glad that The Saint UA-cam Algorithm, our lord and savior, pointed me to your content !)
Really great take on the subject! You should definitely talk about Education Populaire and how it is linked to these thinkers and the take that we could learn through our life. I'd love to here how you approach it :))
My uncle worked for my state in the U.S. with children who committed the worst crimes in the country. I can’t remember his title, but he partially operated as a guardian/social worker at the prison for the kids who committed these crimes. My uncle worked there for decades and said the absolute most evil, heartbreaking kids that were held there were all homeschooled. Of course, if you homeschool that does not mean your kid is destined to do something insane. But the abuse and control that made these children what they were happened in this environment created by their parents. I never forgot that. He has always been vehemently against homeschooling. The worst people abuse homeschooling and children who are abused can often seek help if they attend public schools or at least find a way to have community to stabilize themselves outside of the abuse in their home.
People who seek power and absolute control can find that through homeschooling. Even people with ‘good intentions’ may not see how their issue with public education is that they can’t control it, or their child, because they are out of reach.
While I agree completely about how homeschooling enables abuse, I disagree completely with the notion that some kids are just evil monsters and that their actions are not the product of the material conditions that surround them.
I went to public schools- 11 of them to be exact. I started preschool at age 3. I am doing well in my life, but felt in college that I wasn't properly socialized. Now, in retrospect, I am sure my socialization was not prioritized. If a child's needs are prioitized as they should- socialization included- then they will be socialized in the environment that they are exposed to. There is no one size for all families or children.
Thank you for making maybe the only actually researched video on "commentary youtube," about this growing trend and not just reacting to wacky tiktoks and hunting for buzzy quotes. As always, you actually do encourage conversation in the comments by giving us something to actually converse about. I know people who unschool in very much the tradition you talk about here. For any disagreements I may have with aspects of it (I have some with everything, but they are addressable), they're not all just antisocial trad-lifers which has not always been the case for unschooling. Unfortunately, the closed-loop, gender-essentialist, religious isolationists are in the increasing majority at this point who have no pedagogical foundations or principles. I think it at least is good for us all to think about where this comes from and how liberatory movements and theories are always being co-opted by people. That might show a weakness in the theory, but I think it'd inevitable that people will pull whatever sounds best from a larger corpus of work.
Great video. In Colombia lots of people prefer private education, which can be insanely expensive. Even more expensive than college tuition. I’m in my thirties and some of my friends who have kids are considering unschooling because of money and mental health reasons. I usually try to highlight how important it is to move towards a more collective society instead of having your kids isolated and parents only plus a tutor being the only references for everything. We all know the problems school has, but so many revelations about yourself and the world happen at school just by sharing with people or being confronted with behaviors or ideas that are different from ours. I think as a parent it is your job to ensure that your kid discovers the world while kindly discovers themself, not to rob them of more opportunities of experiencing the world and themselves.
I work at a public high school in Kansas and tuition isn’t free. A large portion of the kids owe exorbitant fees and, upon many other problems with the fee system, won’t be able to get their diploma if not paid.
I think you're mistaken in your language here. Per the Kansas State constitution, public schools are tuition free. What the law does permit (and what some districts sadly require) are enrollment fees, material fees, or registration fees. The fees typically range from $50-$135 annually, with the amount and type ranging widely by district. I agree that this is absurd and should be abolished immediately. If the school you work at is using the word "tuition" for any of its documentation, they are almost certainly violating state law and you should notify the department of education.
Great video! I liked this approach a bit more thsn the commentsry dunking on people videos. Yes, those videos are fun and warched several of them. But I also really appreciate this perspective.
Thank you for covering this topic. Alice, have you heard of Zachary Stein? He wrote the book, Education in a Time Between Worlds: Essays on the Future of Schools, Technology & Society. He orbits in the circle of thought leaders in connection with the meta/poly crisis and the great simplification. It’s interesting. You made me think of it when you were describing how most school systems use authority as motivation for students. Thanks!
I teach at a well funded school 🏫 in NY. I feel there are a lot of problems with how state mandated curriculum fails to connect with students. I also noticed an increasing number of students in 11th grade, who struggle with basic grammar, and abstract concepts. I wish schools were doing more to teach students about finance, how to talk to a lawyer, critical thinking, applied mathematics etc. I also noticed students aren't taught cursive anymore. I'm not saying there is a conspiracy behind this all, but I think we will get the same results. It's almost like this is designed to create two classes of people.
I’m a teacher in MA. Standardized testing is a big problem in the US, because the focus becomes test performance and scores, rather than a balance of skills and knowledge, and it tends to sideline subjects that aren’t English and math. And even then, students are underperforming I went to a PD day where a technology guy was encouraging us to let students use ChatGPT to do their assignments because it’s teaching them how to use technology. I was mind boggled to hear that, and this sort of “using technology” is the reason why students don’t achieve as much anymore, and it’s why they struggle to read, write, or think critically. It’s really sad honestly
@@hydrogen3266 A.I. is the opposite of critical thinking. I wish schools were instead actually examining what it is, how it works, and discussing ethical issues that will most likely arise with all this.I think we should proceed with caution.
Home schooling and its promotion is also a significant backdoor into exploiting or promoting school voucher system which is heavily, heavily promoted by vested interests.
Former founder and teacher of a democratic school here. Unschooling isn't a new term, but they have stole it from democratic education. This is a type of education that goes back to about 1850 has always been around since and from which Summerhill and Sudbury Valley are the most well known. Unschooling means letting go of external motivations like exams and authoritarianism and finding your own internal motivation. It has served as a powerful critique of forced schooling, that is still accepted by most people, including those on left, based on the assumption that "school is inevitable and learning should be directed". As an anarchist I have always fought against this and there is a lot of literature to back me up, like "Freedom to learn" by Peter Gray and research into hunter gatherers ways of education. We should reclaim unschooling as part of anti-authorianism because failing to do so only strengthens the forced schooling paradigm, which is a big part of why might makes right is internalized across societies. I should make a video about this but I don't want to really, but if anyone has any questions, just hit me up.
As a homeschooling mom who tries to keep it as voluntary as possible (although in our state, homeschooled kids are required to take standardized tests), I agree generally, but I do worry about how effectively my kids will be able to earn money as adults if they don't get used to compulsory faux work days now. I guess my big concern there is that they'll be in for a rude awakening as adults, unless they're able to either find work that actually feels fulfilling for them, or just work less and live frugally. Neither of those options really sounds particularly bad though. The academics are the easy part; I just worry about whether I'm preparing them adequately for capitalism lol.
@@omgwhythough So because society is not a very nice place you traumatize your kids young, so they will go and perpetuate a cruel society? That doesn't make any sense. Good work ethos comes from genuine interest in your job. If they learn that they don't have to dumb themselves down, or accept toxic bosses they will navigate the world just fine. They will take up a job as long as they have to, but never longer. They will push their workplaces to be better, and they will keep searching for what makes them happy. We shouldn't be making drones for capitalism, but passionate craftspeople and empathetic humans. There's a couple of books out there that follow the lives of children who finished democratic schooling. I used to dabble in those books but now work in a different field. I think the Sudbury valley democratic school website is a good starting point.
My dad once sat on my local school board and they were for the longest time quite boring affairs but now they’re more busy than town halls with people spouting all sorts of nonsense. I feel my old school is also less open than it used to be because of the fear of safety. The US has a long history of LOVING anti intellectualism. We also have the issue that we are rebounding from the time I grew up where we had regular tests that didn’t really teach us anything and were often doctored to be really easy for better stats. There’s this growing hierarchy that instead of sending your kids to a good public school you need to spend tens of thousands to a private school or send them to a charter where statistically they don’t perform nationally any better and waste taxpayer money. There’s this sense education is a product and elitist rather than a service. My elementary on my block had etched into stone “Education safeguards the nation” and I think about that a lot. Legitimately seeing the kids have their curriculum become a right wing battleground and the isolation from Covid has put them behind in reading, math, and other subjects.
A key point that I really miss in your videos is.. It's nice and all that some home/unschooling parents teach their children life skills and manual labour, however... That's what every parent is supposed to do!! Literally! It's lovely that the Ballerina farm lady cooks with her children, but most parents do that as well! AND their children go to school! If a parent cannot distinguish between 'normal parenting skills' and 'school/ academic skils' they are not fit to teach their child
Hi Alice! First time watcher and a very informative and nice to listen to video. Thank you. As a teacher working in Switzerland who's worked both in the Waldorf system, state Gymnasium and Uni, I have a couple of quibbles, mainly with what you don't say. There are already alternative systems on place, which involve a great deal of manual work and self-directed learning (Waldorf/Steiner schools). They can be good (they depend even more on the teacher than the more traditional format). And I would argue that within the normative system of a regular school, there is actually a lot of room to question, to explore and even to rebel, and students don't generally avail themselves fully of these opportunities. Last point, home schooling deprives young people of yet another sphere of IRL interaction, exactly the wrong direction this day and age when young people put ever more energy into their online worlds and this is increasingky blamed for a mental health epidemic sweeping the Western world. These are just a few ideas that immediately came to mind upon watching your vid. Keep going with them, they are great!
Very interessting topic! I think Covid might also play a big role why so many parents considered homeschooling. It has its pros abd cons but I think for e.g. neurodivergent children ( or for some at least) it could be the better option
I think home schooling is actually banned in Germany if you don’t have a very good reason for it. I personally went to a public Montessori school (50% Montessori, 50% traditional classes) and it really supported me in this trajectory (pick your priorities, learn on your own, teacher as guide, not so much as authority figure ). So while there is valid criticism of Montessori (mostly the person and her view afaik) I really enjoyed the system and would love to send my kids to such a school eventually. The issue is that a lot of these schools are private, so they are not attended by students from diverse backgrounds. My school was public & in a low income district, even though I grew up in the middle class and I was exposed to people from all kinds of economic situations, nationalities and backgrounds. I really hope I can find such a school for my kids one day…
Thank you for elaborating education pathways in Europe. As for Americans' homeschooling, I think it's ultimately libertarian, which began in the early 1970s, and really didn't expand until social media allowed its popularity (very likely adopted by Republican Party, who seek to make conservatives and libertarians compatible, I think in order to suppose they control the debate while both oppose liberalism). In order to attend any higher than secondary (highschool) education, one must graduate, at least with an equivalency certification. But, if that isn't achieved, a millionaire can jut pay their own way without having to borrow anything, too. As you may suspect here from my expression, million libertarians advocate themselves (often as actors).
Regarding access to universities , it depends where you live. Anglo-saxons universities , at least in North America (even Harvard) are very opened to homeschooler profiles. Also, homeschooling does not necessarily have to be for the full school year period. My kids were homeschooled and as such, we frequented many homeschooling families. We observed that typically, kids of 14-16 years old show interest to go to school. As any teenagers, at this age, many want to spend as little time as possible with their parents, and they are naturally choosing to re-enter the system. Some others obtain their diploma by sitting on official exams or standardized examz. Because of openess of anglo-saxons univerities, I have seen some entering university with a portfolio. A girl I know entered McGill university in Montreal, in law at 15 years old, showing up in the department with a portfolio and a lot of passion for law.
@@veroniquelauzon2801 sorry, you spelled it correctly the first time, but unless you are referring to non-existing 19th century universities, there are none of those, too. Perhaps, it was just a generalization. Homeschooling is not as popular as American news may make it seem. Americans may be discouraged from supposing they should be rewarded on their own for good learning, but homeschooling is not the norm, it's an experiment, at best. The purpose of accredited learning is that it can be expected to attain a level of professional ethics, and this is not often explicitly stated, but rather considered built in, so to speak. I used to be a run on sentence champion, until my third try at English composition, with lasting bad points. Open society may seem to be an open complaint department. So, I wish you well in your education all the same. I think access is the key notion of entrance standards that will typically rely on highshool transcripts, if not placement testing.
@@philosophy-of-science-and-law I am sorry, English is not my first language. In French I would have used the term "anglophone". Of course homeschooling is not the norm but in the US, there are more than one million of homeschoolers. In Montreal, where I am from, there is an important community as well. When you say that it is an exprerience at the best, I would encourage you to look at empirical studies on the topic. Everyone can form an opinion on the topic but for most people rely on personal theory formed with little real knowledge of the subject. There are many known and influent people who were homeschooled: George Washington, T Roosevelt, Thomas Edison, Bertrand Russell, Marie Cury's kids, Queen Elizabeth II (an anglo-saxon queen ;).), Condoleeza Rice, to name a few, oh and Emma Watson for the Harry Potter fans. Not that celebrity matters so much but it still shows that if homeschooling is just an experience at the best, many of those experiences turned very well. Empirical studies on homeschooling are very interesting as well and tend to have been performed by independant researchers in the more recent years (This being said, I have not looked at post-covid research, it may have changed the portrait a bit).
@@veroniquelauzon2801 Empirical "studies" are not scientific, and any fame never improves that condition (all your examples are more or less about a century old). Soary to down your enthusiasm, but homeschooling would require a doctorate to perform with any success of staying with the times.
You refer to a number of educational theorists. You may be interested in looking up A. S. Neill and his English private school Summerhill, that he started in the 1930’s. It was a very unusual open child centred approach.
I find that a lot of the idoelogies that lead to people choosing to unchool their kids do it out of concern for what they will learn (or not learn) in school. In daily life, we are all exposed to people we don't like, who treat us poorly, to information that is biased or presented in miselading or malicious ways, there is no viable way to shield your children from these things. All these parents are doing is making it harder for their children to identify and fight against these 'evils' in the future. Shutting your child into an echochamber of what you consider appropriate for them to know, whether conservative or liberal or whatever else, is not going to do them any good. They need to develop the tools to fight against bad things, you're cutting the butterfly out of the coccoon and now it won't be able to fly.
You have literally zero idea of what goes on in a homeschooling environment and yet you are confidently describing your projection of how *you* would create one. Have you considered that?
@@addammadd Let's assume no one knows what happens in homeschooling (an assumption I don't accept) Isn't that part of the problem? Parents aren't educated to be teachers. They tend to lack the skill sets required to teach. I am a teacher. My wife is a teacher. If we were to homeschool, we'd have the skill sets. Ironically, the people I see homeschooling are themselves the most in need of education. It's ab echochamber for religious dogma, bigotry, and conspiracy and all while children fail to cultivate the critical thinking skills required to flourish in life.
Im aromantic asexual and I'm now really realizing that I dont want a long term partner. Part of it is what you said and I feel like myseld would become diluted almost
My brother's girlfriend was homeschooled and so was one of his friends from university. He didn't meet her through him but it turns out they knew eachother very well because homeschoolers have communities where they do group activities and learnings together! They also partake in a lot of community activities and events. They aren't as sheltered as some think 😊
Yea but a lot of the time they only socialize with other home schooled children who end up being the same in terms of religion or appearance. As long as you're being mindful to make sure your kids socialize with people from all walks of life..
@@Bringon-dw8dxexactly. the problem is that there’s no real governing body for homeschooling. parents who homeschool aren’t required to socialize their kids in other ways, which can lead to a lot of isolation if the parents don’t have good intentions
@@xtinkerbellax3 the same can be said of anyone in school in a small town. Also they have to socialise with children who are the same age as them so aren't used to being friends with kids who are older or younger. Whereas homeschool kids tend to have friends of a variety of ages which can be really beneficial.
This idea of homeschooling is a very gringo concept to us in Latin America. 'Cause rich kids here are getting the best education on private schools and universities, and studying abroad. And they use that knowlege on their favor against poor people who have few access to it. Schools are good for the kids, we have to think of a way to improve it to make a better society.
I love this topic it is so interesting!! I was raised in an alternative kind of school that follows this unschooling ideology but does it with in a community so you can both really free yourself from always being told what's good and what you should learn and how but doesn't isolate you from other kids or trap you inside your family and it did wonders for me. The first school like that is called Sudbury valley school and i think its the name of the system also Sudbury i think it will be very interesting for you to read about it because it does alot of what you were talking about❤
1:45 Ah, yes. Michel Foucalt, the famously demure philosopher. Every time I hear a quote from him, all I can think is "wow, that guy is _so_ demure, it's crazy how measured and reserved everything he says is". Jokes aside, as frustrated as I am with public schooling, I definitely don't think mini-cults like the one I was subjected to are ever going to be the answer. Even homeschooling co-ops basically just end up being schools where nobody's qualified to be teaching anything. Growing into a healthy, responsible, knowledgeable adult requires having learned not just a variety of skills but also a variety of perspectives, and the only effective way to accomplish that is some form of public schooling. They need reformed, not abolished.
Great video, as always! Was expecting you to bring up Wilhelm von Humboldt’s ideas about education as well - one of our professors was obsessed with WvH., so we ended up hearing a lot about him:))
in this one case the unschooling trend and everything else even if being used by entrepreneurs is just inherently interesting and thus worthy of being covered and discussed.
A lot of people who hold those beliefs, also want the most "success" for their children.. typically in the form of earning potential. When that's the case, their children need to know how to navigate the world as it exists. Which requires exposure to the institutions. Even if you are against them, as Sun Tsu said "...know your enemy..."
I work at a large law office. At one point we were doing Q&A from the team leaders. One team leader said "A fact few know about me is I was home schooled." and he asked "Was anyone else here home schooled?". Silence. A room of ~150 legal folk / professional. Only one home schooled person. It was strange, but interesting.
That is interesting, but you have to also recognize that even today less than 10% of kids are homeschooled and twenty years ago when that person was growing up, the number was much smaller. I constantly got stares when I was out in the middle of the day with my mom because people were unused to seeing kids not in school. These days when I mention that I was homeschooled, I hardly get a reaction from most people. And while I don't know of any other employees in my division of a large company that were homeschooled themselves, several are homeschooling their kids.
I like to think that if kids have good parents that they are getting the best of both worlds when learning from school and at home. Unfortunately, not all parents are good, so I put more faith in public schools.
My parent always saw school for socializing but with they do claim that if the school did not do enough job I would have a special hour at home as well. Like Semi homeschooling I guess.
I had horrible experiences in both public and private school, but unfortunately, I did not have good parents who could homeschool either. I taught myself most of what I know.
Like, I get that public school is not perfect by any means and wanting to be anti-establishment, but the whole idea of unschooling seems very conspiracy brained. Also I feel like the hyper individualism, the lack of disciplining and socialization as well as teaching them to not respect certain authority figures, etc will just end up creating sociopaths 🫤
"will just end up creating sociopaths " so you believe that loving, caring parents create sociopath but severe bullying at school does not ??? Your ignorance is proving that public schools are ineffective. Bullying is extremely potent to create monsters! Here I quote a study made on school shooters "Most school shooters have experienced being bullied by their classmates for weeks, months, or years"
@@BaiMengLing You're assuming the parents are loving, that is not true in all cases. You sound like you need to work out your school experience with a professional.
To anyone how is interested on why Kropotkin may have chosen a French expression to describe his idea even though he was Russian: French was highly used by the Russian upper class in daily conversations but it was also the language of science and culture - similarly to other countries at that time. It was due to different reasons, including westernization by Peter the Great in the 18th century and Napoleon's invasion to Russia in early 19th century. Also French was considered prestigious and children of wealthy families were educated by French tutors or were sent to France to study. (There is an ongoing joke in Russian learning communities that one puts a lot of effort into learning Russian to enjoy Tolstoy or Dostoevsky in original, only to realize that so many dialogues are written in French.)
17:44 J'ai immediatement pensé à Lagasnerie! 3: Une aspiration au dehors - éloge de l'amitié. Il est passé à F inter à l'époque et Salamé était toute chambouliversée. ^^
Anecdotally, I've seen both sides. I don't work in schools but I work with them constantly, and at least in the US, they are such a mess rn. Teachers are burnt out, admin/leadership is constantly cycled out, kids with behavioral problems are ignored at the detriment to all the other children in the classroom. On the other hand I know multiple home schooled adults and families home schooling their kids. Some people are all the better for it, others have been completely screwed by it. It takes a lot of work as a parent to ensure a homeschooled kid is properly socialized and, frankly, properly educated. It's such a case by case thing. I've met people who didn't really learn to read until they were adults because homeschooling meant free labor in their house. People whose families used homeschooling as indoctrination rather than education. People who have struggled to survive their entire adult lives because of how unprepared their homeschooling left them for the real world. But also people who dedicated everything to educating their kids. People who had to remove kids from school because of bullying and how much their kids blossomed afterwards. Unfortunately the reality is homeschooling is very unregulated. It may be the right choice for a kid or it might ruin their life and no one gets a say if it does.
Unschooling? Abolition of the Family? Stirner, Freire, Kropotkin? Is this an Andrewism video? Either way, even though I dont completely agree with you it's probably bc I don't have that much contact on how social media sees these things. Great work as always
The best way to do things is via Democratic Schooling. Unschooling can closely resemble (or even outright become) Democratic Schooling with the right community supports in place, but by default is (like all forms of homeschooling) remarkably unaccountable and frequently rife with abuse.
One of the biggest crisis for Western democracies, specifical the US, is that no one thinks of structural issues as "political questions." Our lived experience is capitalist realism. As such things like the relationships one has to their labor, or what our foreign policy looks like or why it's pursed the way it is ECT. Most people don't see those as political questions bc those questions haven't been on the table since finalization of the economy in 1970's. All those structural questions are on rails. As a result of the mass disbelief that those things can change through mass politics it results in disgruntled people just choosing to opt out. Most home school is an attempt to opt out of the system the parent sees as corrupt (often for legitimate reasons). The thing with opting out though is that it doesn't really change your conditions. It certainly doesn't do anything to up end the system. It's just surrender with the patina of a sense of control and that often is enough since these people are also financially comfortable as well.
Ha. I was unschooled for a couple years in high school. The result is that i was hilariously behind in some school subjects but cultivated an inner curiosity and hunger for learning for the joy of it. It also made me socially awkward.
I was monstrous as a high school student. I was conniving, manipulative, and I had so many plans. I learned how adults can be abused, I learned how to make them do what I wanted. The only reason that didn't run away entirely is because there was enough people at my school that by the law of large numbers I wasn't able to keep getting away with it. I was fighting hard to have fewer adults in my life, if my family had given it and let me be homeschooled I would be a genuine monster. The fact that there were teachers who had experience and training and understood why I was the way I was is the reason I am an adult. If I was homeschooled I would likely be smarter than most of my peers but I would have genuinely no social skills. public schooling is the only reason I am at all a well-rounded person and the only reason I grew to be better than I was
"to think that any parent is just as good if not better than an entire school of teachers is ridiculous" - now this is another good example that offers some teaching opportunities. One such opportunity is in teaching some logical reasoning. Can u see where it was I claimed that "any parent is just as good if not better than an entire school of teachers"? Is an argument better made if it addresses the actual claims, or is it better if it creates its own claims and argues against them instead? A bachelor in education these days will contain a significant component of reflective practice. Part of this is to reflect on personal educational experience, i.e. when the trainee teacher was a student. The implication here is that our own experiences underpin our personal ideas about how teachers teach. That includes parents, who can also draw on those experiences just as much as a formally trained teacher can. And they often do, seeking information, peer support, and guidance on curricula. Furthermore, teaching is a lifelong journey of the dialectic of reflection and action. When teachers "qualify" they are at the beginning of that journey and still have it all to learn, daily. Teaching is a contextual endeavour and not only are no two learners the same, but often there are differences from one day to the next within the same learner. There are many factors, even some unknowable, and an untrained parent can learn and be as effective as a formally qualified teacher, which bears out in the literature that finds homeschooled children can and often are as academically and socially adept as their formally schooled peers. And on Malala, the point there was to gain access to education, not to mandate a particular form. Overall, there is no perfect answer to education, and both ways have their pros and cons. However, it's well known in the educational literature that the current framework and curricula for public education has many flaws, for example in its standardised testing procedures and rigid curricula, as well as the "banking method" mentioned in this video. One of the outcomes can be seen in the diminishing existence of critical faculties among the general population. Some critics even argue this is actually an aim of education. Thus, there are plenty of good arguments for homeschooling, and just like any educator, those who homeschool can and should be guided in their praxis, as well as seek collaboration opportunities with their homeschooling peers - or even with formally trained teachers. There's nothing to stop anyone, within reason, becoming a good educator. But the key in all cases is in that ongoing process of collaborative reflection and action and the educator's commitment to an attitude of lifelong learning.
@@abody499 You aren't being censored, both of your comments are still up. You just don't understand the UA-cam interface. And I'm choosing not to respond to you because I do not think that you are someone who could learn from a conversation. You think pulling children out of school with no curriculum for homeschooling and no parental training is a valid option, I believe that public school should be required as a minimum. You think that every parent should have the right to remove their children from education entirely and that is sickening.
What I find the most interesting here is that ur not at all a good advert for that which uv claimed the public school has done for u. At every opportunity in this exchange uv been rude, presumptuous, intellectually dishonest, rigid, and bizarrely the opposite of the self-descriptions offered in ur OP here. But this isn't surprising for me, because these aren't unusual traits in the general population, which is well argued in the educational literature to come out of the dominant epistemology of the education in western liberal democracies.
@@abody499 I am behaving that way because you are the same in my eyes and I am engaging with you because it is good for the algorithm. I think you are not someone I could have and earnest discussion with so I am arguing with you for my entertainment and to help push this video in the algorithm. I admit, I have been vulgar and intellectually dishonest after seeing responses from you because I don't think that putting effort into the conversation would be rewarding for me or you. instead I mumble into my speech to text while I play video games after work. because I deal with a lot of frustrations and horror, I tend to have a specific energy of dealing with people I find to be stressful online. If you plan to generalize the public school education based off of your interactions with me, I have no control over that. But that also makes you the kind of person to generalize based off of impressions you made on the internet instead of looking at studies or interacting with people in your life. and, that is also discrediting every single person who is better than me. You are ignoring every single person who went to a public school who isn't behaving in the way that you assume I behave. You are making emotional, personal judgments based off of one stranger on the internet, possibly because your own circle in life isn't open too many people.
As a child of incredibly abusive parents, my parents being required to answer for me not attending school might have saved my life.
Same here. Ultimate loophole to abuse your kids and let them ‘slip through the cracks.’
@@rmmr1168 Do you also think we should stop reproducing completely because there will be a miniscule percentage of parents who are going to abuse their children. How stupid way to look at life. On average, parents aren't abusive. Even more for parents who are consciously choosing to give up their career to homeschool their children. Just because there will be exceptions of such cases, doesn't make the idea as abusive.
@@priyogopalsingha3487 You’ve either misunderstood me or willfully misrepresented my argument. I don’t debate idiots and fools.
I saw someone describe it as yet another way, along with homeschooling, for people who don't want to engage with society at large to further achieve that goal. So you'll get reclusive right-wing religious types, as well as "alternative medicine" hippie types from all across the political spectrum. The biggest victims are the children, who are forced into resentful co-dependency as adults and have severely limited career prospects and general autonomy.
@@demonseed360 You couldn’t have said it more accurately. Thank you for your insight!
I still see the main good of public schooling is socialization with peers and providing minors a space free from their parents/caretakers. Fro children from not healthy homes, this is a VERY important freedom. The children who parents are most against children leaving them for schooling are probably the children who most need that ability.
Parents in unhealthy homes are glad to send their kids to public school. It's a way to get the kids away for a large chunk of the day. It's usually homes with abundant resources and hyper-vigilant parents that homeschool their kids.
@@kazuya99aceNo, it's usually religious fundamentalists and other ultra controlling types. You can provide your child with more reading, math, etc. at home but it is very difficult to provide your child with a diverse group of peers at home.
@@kazuya99ace Hypervigilant parents can also be abusive.
@@kazuya99ace This might be an area of introspection for you, because from my perspective, this comment just makes it sound like you hate poor people.
@@alejandramoreno6625 Hypervigilant parents _often_ are also abusive, if not physically, intellectually and emotionally.
One of our biggest problems in the US is that schools are funded based on the income and taxes of the zip code. Poor areas get little funding, so kids in poor areas get poor education and are therefore less likely to get good jobs. Kids in richer areas get much better education and better opportunities. It perpetuates inequality.
Brazilian educator here! So glad to see you talking about Paulo Freire, especially within the subject of "alternative education".
His respectful approach gave meaning, a reason to why we learn, and in my point of view, that in itself is revolutionary.
Freire is the man the world needs right now.
I was homeschooled but in a structured environment approved by the state. Even so, I'm now a public-school teacher and my kids all attend public schools. One reason I rejected that kind of thing was that I realized once I got to college that the "let him read and figure out the truth for himself" didn't actually serve me well as I fell under influence of things I read without necessarily thinking critically. You can't believe everything. Great video as always, Alice!
At least you got a break from the pavement apes.
That *YOU* weren’t taught how to critically think in *YOUR* homeschool upbringing does not mean that *ALL* homeschool curricula fails as miserably as your parents’. It is unfortunate that your failure to adapt in childhood persists into your adulthood.
@@addammadd LMAO. Whatever you say, bro.
@@addammadd And yet enough use it as an excuse to leave future citizens unable to engage with society. Nah, it needs to be illegal.
Were you homeschooled?
@@addammaddThat YOU didn't learn how to critically think in YOUR public school does not mean ALL students fail as miserably as you. It is unfortunate your failure to adapt in childhood persists in your adulthood.
I'm in NC in the USA. Public education funding has been de-funded for many years. 2 decades ago, my middle and high school teachers would say "because of our budget" for many different reasons. And it's STILL an ongoing issue. The state is constantly ranked at the bottom for teacher pay. The republican dominated congress refuses to increase funding for public education in favor of spending billions on private school vouchers which only cover a fraction of students. There is a domino effect that occurs when everyone in a state isn't guaranteed quality education, so I find the mistreatment of public education very dangerous.
I live in Raleigh. It's fucking abysmal here. My school was awful and I graduated HS in 2010. It seems to have only gotten worse.
I was moved (against my will) to NC in 1978 from NY, where I really enjoyed school. It was both challenging & rewarding. In NC, however, so little was asked of me that I literally didn't open a book. I used to play chess with a friend of mine in English class, where none of the 'American Classics' were read. I came out with a great GPA, but any desire to further my schooling had been drained out of me. I lament for kids in the same school system now. Still pathetic.
I have come to believe (I now have two degrees) that the main goal of school should be to teach the students how to grow their curiosities, their creativity, to instill in them a life long pursuit of knowledge & experience (yes, there should be a certain basis of knowledge upon which they can build). The school I attended in NY was structured so that the students chose a major to explore before they even thought about college. Instead, I went to a school that was largely comprised of mobile homes as classrooms.
I do know that in the SC state constitution it mandates a 'minimally adequate education.'
@@mcrumph Similar experience! I moved from NJ to NC in the 2010s in the middle of highschool. I went from a public school that had endless elective class choices, where a part of the curriculum was exploring multiple fields to a NC school where you had to 'enter a lottery' to get a spot in an ART class. All my classes were also in mobile trailer homes and yes, the bathrooms were also outside. They didn't even have enough 'honor students' to dedicate a room to, so the four of us sat against the wall of a regular english class. The only difference was we were given one more essay to write at the end of the year lol. What a joke, I felt so bad for my classmates.
@@JoJo-is-the-name I'm experiencing some cognitive dissonance right now; so let me ask you this: Should I feel comforted others have experienced what I did (some thirty-odd years later), or depressed, knowing that nothing has changed (& likely won't in the future)? Yes, I would have taken 9 classes ranging from mechanical drafting to perspective to anatomy in my drawing focus. In NC, when I asked, the principle said, 'yes, we have art 1 & art 2,' but neither contained any real instruction.
Doesn't bode well for those wanting to go for colleges either. 3.6 high school GPA, and I still got into what is basically Ivy League for compsci. How did I, with a comparably crummy GPA get into such a good school? Because my school was in NYC, where my particular school has more funding than what the principal knows what to do with.
I know of other students whose parents put them in crummy schools with the express intention of having them be the valedictorian, only for them to end up in places like Stony Brook. Stony Brook is a pretty good school, but when I asked some of my friends to compare coursework, well, what their classes cover in sophomore year, my classes already covered in freshman.
My problem with a lot of these home schooling/unschooling parents is that they are often showing basic parenting as some sort of school. As if they shouldn’t also be doing these things with their kids even if they were in school.Spending time with your kids and teaching them basic life skills is your responsibility as a parent. It’s not either or 🤷♀️
Also, I’m often very confused what other countries public schools are like. The ones in my country mix book learning, physical activity, art and learning life skills together. Things like cooking, sewing, carpentry and using a computer were all classes I had to take from 1st to 7th grade. I’d usually only spend half my school day with books before 8th grade when we started taking electives and you could choose what classes you took for 2-3 classes a day. What are other public schools doing all day? How do get children to sit all day?
In my country, children are made to sit all day by humiliation. Teachers are unquestionable authorities who can dole out emotional abuse freely, and even a certain form of physical abuse (refusing to let a child out to use the restroom during class - i went to a fancy public high school cca 15 years ago and yes every class had a kid who shat themselves at some point). 'Behaviour' is also graded along with 'Diligence' just as say Math or Literature is graded.
This of course is made possible by the fact that ours is a very authoritative culture, most parents treat their kids in very abusive ways also.
And yes all of the above does result a teacher getting stabbed or beaten in schools pretty regularly. We also have 'school police' now, which did not exist during my childhood but did in some form during my parents and grandparents time.
In mine school is only 4hs a day and it doesn't include things like cooking, carpentry and sewing. The average parent works more than 8hs a day so eventually kids do end up learning that kind of life skills out of necessity.
@@tiredcatman7381 Why only 4h? Also for teens?
For 1st-4th grade we also only had 4-5h, then later 6-8h. If your parents worked day jobs you could go to after school programs until 16:00 or 17:00 depending on the school.
But book learning was always only half the day, and we’d not have all these things in one week for all the years. Art, cooking, PE and swimming were once a week for 1-8th grade.
@@lilith1557 That sounds crazy to me, but sounds closer to how school was for my grandfather in the 30s. When I was a kid in 90s things had changed quite a bit, and changed more as I became an adult.
Children today in my country are considered their own people outside their parents. They have rights and a special status of protection because of their youth. Parents have a responsibility towards the child, they are not property of their parents. Which is why homeschooling is generally not allowed. It’s considered a violation of the child’s right to education with their peers.
@@lifeinabook839 4hs in 1st to 6th grade in school and 5hs if no teacher was absent in 1st to 6th years of high school. Both are 5 days a week.
There's some "full time schools" that have 7:30hs, but they're rare. Only 44 to cover the capital which aprox 1.5mill ppl. And no full time high schools.
I was homeschooled structurally for a couple years (I went back to school at age 12) but a lot of my social circle was “unschooled” children my age. The main argument the parents had was that the children “learned at their own pace”. Most of the children didn’t know how to read or do basic maths at age 11 even. The most they could do was spell their own name, no more. I was always grateful that I was at school from ages 3 to 10 because it set me up to be able to do basic things. As someone who has been home educated, conventionally schooled and been around unschooled children, my opinion on unschooling is that it sets children up for failure in adulthood.
Do you have any idea how it panned out for those kids? Did they catch up over time? Spend the rest of their lives on benefits? Or (my personal suspicion based on minimal evidence!) are they from affluent families who have enough resources that it doesn’t really matter, little Arlo will be able to get a “job” doing interior design for daddy’s rich friends?
@@katerose8393 haha most of the families in my circle were on government benefits so most of the parents didn’t work. A lot of the kids would end up trying school in their teens but not many stayed. Most of them were artsy so they went on to do dancing, performing or acting or something but usually it would end up that they were on benefits.
You nailed it that she's not actually opposed to the system, she's just trying to gain it. Most people would not be able to afford the 'luxury' of unschooling. She's likely wealthy enough to provide cushioning for her to 'experiment' and screw up her children's education, and have trust funds for them to fall back on.
Personally I’m more in favor of having both the public and private school systems and replacing them with much better alternatives.
Honestly, I feel like the biggest downside to unschooling is that you have to be fairly disciplined and organized in order to make it work in the sense that you have to be able to take what your kids are interested in and construct or find learning opportunities around those tasks and ideas. I feel like it can be really easy to just say that you'll watch a bunch of youtube videos on it with your kids or make an art project with that theme. Not that those things are bad for learning, but the learning has to go beyond what is easy or convenient, and falling into that trap of doing what is easy is incredibly likely if you're not disciplined.
@MarshalMarrs-eu9yh
I'd prefer it for schools to be semi standardized on a state level. Have the public schools share administration and record keeping across the state. As for private schools, if they don't take public tax dollars, I'd prefer the government not bother. And yes, I consider school vouchers for privates and charters as accepting public tax money.
Shared admin is how cities like NYC and Boston structure their public schools. Outcomes are apparently comparable to private schools in those same cities, sometimes even better. Yeah, the schools could be better, but no one seems to want to build new schools to ameliorate the overcrowding issue that's been around for about 20 years now.
Nice lastname.
A lot of unschooling parents aren't rich and STILL choose it, which means those kids are going to get screwed over even more.
Learning manual tasks can be really important but you also have to be able to read and do arithmetic
you can easily link both... most manual tasks require some math or Reading instructions for exemple. you can totally create compound activities in addition to specific lessons
@@Arkansyaok, what manual activity do you do that will teach you how to write a mathematical proof?
@@thedudewhoeatspianos not a math proof but try building anything without geometry or any mechanics without force vectors and come back then.
I never said you can pair everything but you definitely can do it for huge parts of curriculum, this is how trade schools work for example
@@thedudewhoeatspianos we did that at school, we used the carpentry workshop work to learn geometry and derive formulas, then write proofs to accompany our visual physical demonstrations.
But this was not in the US, I've heard your educational system is absolutely awful and by my interactions with Muh'ricans I believe it is.
I'm around a lot of parents with young kids living in the US in California. Many of them have decided to homeschool, but the conversation has never been around what the kids are being taught but rather the prevalence of school shootings. Most parents I know have chosen homeschooling out of fear for their child's safety.
Just hoping to add an extra layer of perspective here.
Lot of dogs and hyenas go to school.
I was thinking of this as well, if i was a U.S citizen i would probably want to move(change country) for my child's safety.
yeah this is a very important context, especially as the US has the highest rate of homeschooling. a lot of explanatory power
School shootings are fairly rare, though, despite how it seems.
Covid is a more salient hazard for children and their families, although most won't acknowledge it these days
I homeschooled my kid for 2.5 years (from mid-6th thru 8th, went to traditional high school as planned) because he fell behind due to some bad curricula/poor teachers/bullying in public and parochial schools.
He was at least 2 years behind in everything when we started (couldn’t multiply or divide) and was a year ahead (finished algebra 1) when he went back. He went from not being able to write a sentence to being able to write outlines and essays.
That said, we homeschoolers don’t talk about the unschoolers. That’s what gets thrown at us when we’re trying to help our kids.
I just recently discovered your channel - you have such a nuanced view of things, it's so hard to find this sort of discussion on the internet. Thank you!
As a neurodivergent human I see the appeal of homeschool and have all sorts of problems with the education systems from grade school to post secondary. Due to the disciplinary and banking methods, I’ve been subjected to bullying by students and a teacher and out of Highschool I barely remember what was “banked” into my mind. Teachers are just told to fill these boxes without consideration of how these children will survive and function in society. However I don’t think taking your kids out of school is the answer, either the entire school system needs to be overhauled or we look to community for education and with how stressed parents are I don’t blame them for either decision. I hate that education is a battleground for adults ideologies, I’d like to have a class on queer history or the struggles of people of colour but I also want to know how to manage money, identify shady workplace practices, cook my own meals and sew. My mothers generation had these skills in their education field yet now they’re barely a thing anymore. Yet they’re skills that we should be using over our lifetime.
Education should be about personal enrichment, building practical skills and giving/receiving new points of view with your peers. My Highschool grade practically begged our math teachers to teach us how to do taxes and most of us didn’t absorb that knowledge because it was one class session covering it in a preplanned curriculum that went full speed with no brakes.
18:00 as I see it, that's not abolishing the family. Instead it is actually allowing family to be a building block of society by not isolating one from the other!
Michel Foucault: school is like prison
Home schooling parents from tiktok: ogey *unschools*
Michel Foucault: how could you possibly think that's what I meant
*another day another banger*
No one should take seriously what that bold pedo said anyway .
foucault was a shill for the ruling class
Yep, the whole video was very confusing. Homeschooling seems the only idea to rid of evils of schooling like discrimination, bullying, shame etc in their formative years which will haunt them for their whole lives. Because there are some issues with homeschooling, don't throw the baby with the bathwater. Its the way of the future.
one of the drawbacks I see in homeschooling is the apparent lack of peer review on the part of the parents. in schools we have regular council meetings on top of all the bureaucracy that ensures no decision is made by a single person. to leave that on the hands of a single parent (who might also be in charge of caring of the home) seems highly problematic to me
This is important. Same thing goes for one parent being the teacher for all the grades and subjects. Even in elementary school there are specialist teachers for music, art, and gym, and after 5th grade every subject has a specialized teacher. My mother for sure wouldn’t have given me a quality education in every single subject, and she never got a quality arts education, so that would have been passed down to me (and I grew up to become a musician thanks to having music teachers at my public school)
It only works for upper midle class people. Without a degree in Brasil you are going to starve or have a terrible job, so I don't see that trend beeing relevant enough to the majority of people.
Same in North America
As someone who was homeschooled (not in the US) I would agree with your take. It worked out for my brothers and I, but we were very lucky. There were a couple groups of homeschoolers in our area that we joined in order to make friends and share teaching resources etc. Of my friends from that time I’m only aware of a couple who have gone on to do post secondary education or much of anything with their lives. Many of these friends were people who had mental health issues and had had really negative experiences in the public school system because of them. Rather than giving them the space to get better, homeschooling often gave them the space for their mental health problems to become their identity. Like you can go to all the therapy in the world but if you don’t have the motivation to do the work afterwards you are not going to get better. These were the outcomes in what i would describe as the ideal scenario for homeschooling.
There is a VAST difference between homeschooling and "unschooling" Onomi is literally not teaching her children anything specifically about reading or writing. She is "teaching them life skills" which is what every good parent should be ALSO teaching their children. Her children cleaning the car for an afternoon is not actually preparing them for the modern workforce beyond manual labor.
she has her children clean her car as part of their schooling?
Detailing a car well is a legitimate skill .
Not everyone needs to be intellectual.
Working with your hands is skilled labor and useful.
@@lisamoag6548 stop deliberately saying stupid things
On Freire's approach: I'd just add children hold cultural knowledge as well. Very important to him.
Really good intervention, Alice.
You wouldn’t want your kids to be held back because of your own biases. In The Netherlands we have schools serving any kind of beliefs or teaching concept. There are very few legal reasons to allow home schooling. According to Wikipedia only 0,05 percent do not attend a school. From the age of 5 to the age of 17 a child is in school.
You conflate schooling with education. Read Ivan Illich.
I have a few friends who immigrated from your oppressive country (NL) to where I live because their kids (Autism spectrum) are bullied by ableist like you who call our neurodiversity a "bias"- first rule of thriving with autism; Do not give a fuck about people who are too closed minded to accept your difference.
I'm all for a CappellexChadChad crossover. Actually, I want more of it
Aldous Huxley's book Island always struck a chord with me in the early parts featuring community education
Public schools aren't subsidized effectively, and too many teachers are paid almost nothing. Teachers are just people who can get discouraged and overwhelmed, and their students lose out in that scenario. I had a history teacher in high school who once spent the entire length of a class talking about how girls should feel empowered cause they're so pretty. It felt completely normal at the time, but now I look back as an adult and clearly remember losing 45 minutes of learning to a frumpy man's deep dissatisfaction with his job. Dude was completely checked out. Teachers get no support, but somehow when they suck, it's impossible to fire them. I remember multiple teachers I had mention their roommates, and now realize how wrong that is. I also remember one of the teachers in my high school having a nervous breakdown, and I kinda get why now.
Thank you for giving a fair hearing to real unschooling. I hate that a couple of TikTokers can twist the idea and turn a million ppl against unschooling because they don't know what they're talking about.
I went to a high school in the 80s that was part of the public school system, but was largely modeled after SummerHill School in the UK. Lots of freedom. Also a lot of consequences (good and bad). I didn't go to class for most of my freshman year (freedom). Then I got kicked out (consequence). I lucked out having a teacher there who believed in me enough to keep me in and I started figuring my shit out-because I wanted the freedom, independence, autonomy, but I understood how easily it could be taken away (because of my inaction).
I don't mean to diminish manual tasks, i think they are very important, but only if they are accompanied by the explanation of the logics of it. It is really important to develop abstract knowledge and thinking. As a teacher myself i have to deal constantly with the impossibilities of the students to think beyond the material thing in front of them or the abstract conecpts beyond themselves
It bothers me that the baby is thrown out with the bathwater when it comes to so many formerly counterculture ideas that have become adopted by groups behaving in problematic ways.
There tends to be a lack of perspective taking, a lack of allocentric acknowledgement of what others are correct about (not that the truth is always in the middle of two opposites), and too much focus on others being wrong (according to the perception of the critic, the critic's perception not necessarily being wrong). It's counterproductive.
Thanks for not engaging in that behavior, Alice!🙂
It seems like a form of egocentrism that the parents want to impart their own idea or believe onto the children. They don't give them the choice to think outside the scope of their parents ideals.
I got whiplash going from your energy to chad chad's after watching both videos
I didn't expect a reference to Paulo Freire's work here, I'm very glad that you bring him to your reflections about education.
I like what you said near the end. I think children raised in a community just grow fine and they can also reduce a lot of pressure on mothers.
I'm Brazilian, my children grew up as unschoolers, but we always gave them the option of choice, in order to reinforce the power of their own decision. At the age of 12, they chose to go to school, and now, at the end of high school, I see that they are much more confident in their decisions than most. The fact that they go to school out of self-interest greatly changes the individual's disposition
Wish my dad was that cool when they separated when I was 14. All that happened was that he leeched off of my interests (concerts, parties, social groups, etc.) and basically made his new home into a metaphorical second childhood. Ironically, I think school was an escape from the rockiness of that kind of home life, so I think there's some value in having a world outside of there.
There aren't a set number of values like progressive or conservative that you have to choose from. You have to raise your kids to have the ability to think for themselves. Many things have nuances in real life.
If your kid after becoming an adult ends up disagreeing with your view as a result of being tought to think for themselves, that's a good thing. Maybe your views weren't as good as you thought, newer generations are supposed to get better not worse.
As a new American educator, I have two points.
1) Many schools are deeply self-conscious about how much choice they provide and are eager for opportunities for choice, or manual education pathways. For example, there was a mandatory workshop class in middle school.
2) The structures can actually be very beneficial. As I started the year with weak structures, the students were preoccupied with interpersonal stuff and broadly spent the day stressed or lost. However, as the structures tightened in, everyone had something to do. While grade motivation has so many negatives, it’s a stepping stone to get students to confront challenging tasks immediately and implicitly. From there, you can build out dialogue, strategizing, and so on. The unschooling writings sound very partial to a “corrupted nature,” when in fact the actual path to fulfillment often takes so many prerequisites that I think many take for granted.
Wonderful video!
Hitting the nail on the head. If we only teach children the things they come to ask about, they will rarely encounter tougher subjects. What kid is going to come up to their parents and ask "mommy what's an electric field?" Overcoming things that are difficult is a key concept of school, as well as dealing with disappointment, planning and organising, and becoming independent from your parents.
As an autistic transgender person I definitely have to disagree with the second point. The "structure" in my school almost destroyed me before I was even 10 years old. The the state thinks of disabled people mostly as an inconvenience, including school children. As for the expectations of gender conformity they traumatised me for life. In fact even to this day my transphobic and ableist brother-in-law advocates that all children need to go to school to learn to conform. When the chief advocate in my life for the perspective of what is often described as "structure" it becomes a very hard to take that perspective seriously. It's very frustrating that people see children as a fluid to be moulded by those with power. Transgender and disabled children included.
@@PlurCo see but you fall outside of most children by being autistic and I say this as an autistic person you are not every autistic person that structure is what allowed me to function everyone is different but one thing I can say is most neurotypical children will also benefit from a structure You are the exception not the rule
I'm so glad you discussed the history and philosophy of unschooling. I'm nearly 60 now, but growing up in the 70s I heard about the radical education movement, and started reading about it - including home schooling, unschooling, free schools, democratic schools, deschooling, and so on. I had a very unpleasant home life and my mediocre public schools just made me feel worse. As I grew up I began trying to understand why I hated school so much, and I realized it was because the people who ran them had little or no interest in students. And the rare exceptions still had to work within a system that was designed to destroy the mental and emotional life of children. So I began to see myself as a secret revolutionary, biding my time until I was released from my prison. The philosophies of radical education and anarchism - via the writings of people like Paul Goodman, A. S. Neill, and John Holt - gave me hope that another way of life was possible. To see all this reduced to trendy tiktoks and outraged commentary has been truly surreal. I could have guessed that Alice would never indulge in such nonsense! Thanks!
I admire the early Greco-Roman approach to learning. Where schools were movements dedicated to a particular philosophical, artistic or scientific thought.
One big consideration for the meteoric rise in home schooling in the US is gun violence. In no other *industrialized, peacetime countries* in the world do parents have to deal with this at this scale. I think daily about pulling my kids out of the public schools they love for this very reason.
yes to this!!!
It doesn't exist in most, if not all, non-industrialized peacetime countries either.
Learn all about unschooling and you'll be ready. There are some great books and podcasts. I recommend starting with Free to Learn by Peter Gray.
Then again, the US has been at peace only 15 years in the entirety of its existence so it isn't exactly a peacetime country
Thank you... coupled with (speaking only of my local school option) huge drug issues within the school and constant violence between students that leads to police presence. It's such a difficult thing to think through as a parent and you have to make the best choice you can.
Home school is a part of the school choice movement that is being pushed and funded by conservative groups here in the states. And, I think that our two tiered education system, that is pay to play because urban schools are underfunded, is the real issue here. Now, one could take a deep dive into the impacts of NCLB, the emphasis on pair/group work, impossible class sizes, terrible educational research working it's way into classrooms, shifts in pedagogy toward minimal direct instruction time, and the insane amount of office work teachers are expected to do, among other things, but I also think that, when we create quantitative targets, that measure school leader success, they tend to incentivize poor performance.
The danger of homeschooling, even the one you'd most agree with, is that children do not engage with enough different people, including some difficult ones, to develop healthy social skills.
@@KootFloris The danger of public schooling is if you kids are different, their life will be hell for 12 years.
@@Just_some_guy_1 I've been in that hell, because I'm different. And it was shit. And it learned me a lot, I found quicker how to manage myself in different environments. Considering my parents as my homeschoolers however would have been way way worse, especially my father.
What's funny is that right now (in France), teaching on primary school and nursery school has pretty much completly shift from the normative formation. We know try to teach the kids to be curious and, as we say "the learner has to be the center of the learning" and everything have to come from them. The teacher is just here to orientate the questionning, validate the reflexions or give advices (and of course, to formulate the conclusion in a pragmatic way once the pupils have reach their goal).
It's not the easest way to teach, and it demands a lot from the teacher and the institution, but as studies had shown us... it is the best way to teach so far.
Anway, great video ! (I'm so glad that The Saint UA-cam Algorithm, our lord and savior, pointed me to your content !)
Lovely video, Alice!
Would love to hear more from you about those community based societies you talked at the end.
Thanks :)
Just another quality video after another. You are a gem ❤️
Really great take on the subject! You should definitely talk about Education Populaire and how it is linked to these thinkers and the take that we could learn through our life. I'd love to here how you approach it :))
My uncle worked for my state in the U.S. with children who committed the worst crimes in the country. I can’t remember his title, but he partially operated as a guardian/social worker at the prison for the kids who committed these crimes. My uncle worked there for decades and said the absolute most evil, heartbreaking kids that were held there were all homeschooled.
Of course, if you homeschool that does not mean your kid is destined to do something insane. But the abuse and control that made these children what they were happened in this environment created by their parents. I never forgot that. He has always been vehemently against homeschooling. The worst people abuse homeschooling and children who are abused can often seek help if they attend public schools or at least find a way to have community to stabilize themselves outside of the abuse in their home.
People who seek power and absolute control can find that through homeschooling. Even people with ‘good intentions’ may not see how their issue with public education is that they can’t control it, or their child, because they are out of reach.
While I agree completely about how homeschooling enables abuse, I disagree completely with the notion that some kids are just evil monsters and that their actions are not the product of the material conditions that surround them.
11:17 Manuel work made me giggle
I came for the same thing HAHAHAH It caught me off guard 😂
ok i'm very interested in a non american position on this, thank you alice for doing a video about it!!!
I went to public schools- 11 of them to be exact. I started preschool at age 3. I am doing well in my life, but felt in college that I wasn't properly socialized. Now, in retrospect, I am sure my socialization was not prioritized. If a child's needs are prioitized as they should- socialization included- then they will be socialized in the environment that they are exposed to.
There is no one size for all families or children.
Thank you for making maybe the only actually researched video on "commentary youtube," about this growing trend and not just reacting to wacky tiktoks and hunting for buzzy quotes. As always, you actually do encourage conversation in the comments by giving us something to actually converse about.
I know people who unschool in very much the tradition you talk about here. For any disagreements I may have with aspects of it (I have some with everything, but they are addressable), they're not all just antisocial trad-lifers which has not always been the case for unschooling. Unfortunately, the closed-loop, gender-essentialist, religious isolationists are in the increasing majority at this point who have no pedagogical foundations or principles.
I think it at least is good for us all to think about where this comes from and how liberatory movements and theories are always being co-opted by people. That might show a weakness in the theory, but I think it'd inevitable that people will pull whatever sounds best from a larger corpus of work.
Great video. In Colombia lots of people prefer private education, which can be insanely expensive. Even more expensive than college tuition. I’m in my thirties and some of my friends who have kids are considering unschooling because of money and mental health reasons. I usually try to highlight how important it is to move towards a more collective society instead of having your kids isolated and parents only plus a tutor being the only references for everything. We all know the problems school has, but so many revelations about yourself and the world happen at school just by sharing with people or being confronted with behaviors or ideas that are different from ours. I think as a parent it is your job to ensure that your kid discovers the world while kindly discovers themself, not to rob them of more opportunities of experiencing the world and themselves.
I work at a public high school in Kansas and tuition isn’t free. A large portion of the kids owe exorbitant fees and, upon many other problems with the fee system, won’t be able to get their diploma if not paid.
Sorry- public school isn’t free in America??? Ive heard it’s underfunded but I assumed it was at least free…
I think you're mistaken in your language here. Per the Kansas State constitution, public schools are tuition free. What the law does permit (and what some districts sadly require) are enrollment fees, material fees, or registration fees. The fees typically range from $50-$135 annually, with the amount and type ranging widely by district. I agree that this is absurd and should be abolished immediately.
If the school you work at is using the word "tuition" for any of its documentation, they are almost certainly violating state law and you should notify the department of education.
Great video! I liked this approach a bit more thsn the commentsry dunking on people videos. Yes, those videos are fun and warched several of them. But I also really appreciate this perspective.
I need to know more about those night time bat searches.
Thank you for covering this topic. Alice, have you heard of Zachary Stein? He wrote the book, Education in a Time Between Worlds: Essays on the Future of Schools, Technology & Society. He orbits in the circle of thought leaders in connection with the meta/poly crisis and the great simplification. It’s interesting. You made me think of it when you were describing how most school systems use authority as motivation for students. Thanks!
I teach at a well funded school 🏫 in NY. I feel there are a lot of problems with how state mandated curriculum fails to connect with students. I also noticed an increasing number of students in 11th grade, who struggle with basic grammar, and abstract concepts. I wish schools were doing more to teach students about finance, how to talk to a lawyer, critical thinking, applied mathematics etc. I also noticed students aren't taught cursive anymore. I'm not saying there is a conspiracy behind this all, but I think we will get the same results. It's almost like this is designed to create two classes of people.
I’m a teacher in MA. Standardized testing is a big problem in the US, because the focus becomes test performance and scores, rather than a balance of skills and knowledge, and it tends to sideline subjects that aren’t English and math. And even then, students are underperforming
I went to a PD day where a technology guy was encouraging us to let students use ChatGPT to do their assignments because it’s teaching them how to use technology. I was mind boggled to hear that, and this sort of “using technology” is the reason why students don’t achieve as much anymore, and it’s why they struggle to read, write, or think critically. It’s really sad honestly
@@hydrogen3266 A.I. is the opposite of critical thinking. I wish schools were instead actually examining what it is, how it works, and discussing ethical issues that will most likely arise with all this.I think we should proceed with caution.
Home schooling and its promotion is also a significant backdoor into exploiting or promoting school voucher system which is heavily, heavily promoted by vested interests.
Former founder and teacher of a democratic school here. Unschooling isn't a new term, but they have stole it from democratic education. This is a type of education that goes back to about 1850 has always been around since and from which Summerhill and Sudbury Valley are the most well known. Unschooling means letting go of external motivations like exams and authoritarianism and finding your own internal motivation. It has served as a powerful critique of forced schooling, that is still accepted by most people, including those on left, based on the assumption that "school is inevitable and learning should be directed". As an anarchist I have always fought against this and there is a lot of literature to back me up, like "Freedom to learn" by Peter Gray and research into hunter gatherers ways of education. We should reclaim unschooling as part of anti-authorianism because failing to do so only strengthens the forced schooling paradigm, which is a big part of why might makes right is internalized across societies. I should make a video about this but I don't want to really, but if anyone has any questions, just hit me up.
As a homeschooling mom who tries to keep it as voluntary as possible (although in our state, homeschooled kids are required to take standardized tests), I agree generally, but I do worry about how effectively my kids will be able to earn money as adults if they don't get used to compulsory faux work days now.
I guess my big concern there is that they'll be in for a rude awakening as adults, unless they're able to either find work that actually feels fulfilling for them, or just work less and live frugally. Neither of those options really sounds particularly bad though.
The academics are the easy part; I just worry about whether I'm preparing them adequately for capitalism lol.
@@omgwhythough So because society is not a very nice place you traumatize your kids young, so they will go and perpetuate a cruel society? That doesn't make any sense. Good work ethos comes from genuine interest in your job. If they learn that they don't have to dumb themselves down, or accept toxic bosses they will navigate the world just fine. They will take up a job as long as they have to, but never longer. They will push their workplaces to be better, and they will keep searching for what makes them happy. We shouldn't be making drones for capitalism, but passionate craftspeople and empathetic humans.
There's a couple of books out there that follow the lives of children who finished democratic schooling. I used to dabble in those books but now work in a different field. I think the Sudbury valley democratic school website is a good starting point.
My dad once sat on my local school board and they were for the longest time quite boring affairs but now they’re more busy than town halls with people spouting all sorts of nonsense. I feel my old school is also less open than it used to be because of the fear of safety. The US has a long history of LOVING anti intellectualism. We also have the issue that we are rebounding from the time I grew up where we had regular tests that didn’t really teach us anything and were often doctored to be really easy for better stats. There’s this growing hierarchy that instead of sending your kids to a good public school you need to spend tens of thousands to a private school or send them to a charter where statistically they don’t perform nationally any better and waste taxpayer money. There’s this sense education is a product and elitist rather than a service. My elementary on my block had etched into stone “Education safeguards the nation” and I think about that a lot. Legitimately seeing the kids have their curriculum become a right wing battleground and the isolation from Covid has put them behind in reading, math, and other subjects.
A key point that I really miss in your videos is.. It's nice and all that some home/unschooling parents teach their children life skills and manual labour, however... That's what every parent is supposed to do!! Literally! It's lovely that the Ballerina farm lady cooks with her children, but most parents do that as well! AND their children go to school!
If a parent cannot distinguish between 'normal parenting skills' and 'school/ academic skils' they are not fit to teach their child
Hi Alice! First time watcher and a very informative and nice to listen to video. Thank you. As a teacher working in Switzerland who's worked both in the Waldorf system, state Gymnasium and Uni, I have a couple of quibbles, mainly with what you don't say. There are already alternative systems on place, which involve a great deal of manual work and self-directed learning (Waldorf/Steiner schools). They can be good (they depend even more on the teacher than the more traditional format). And I would argue that within the normative system of a regular school, there is actually a lot of room to question, to explore and even to rebel, and students don't generally avail themselves fully of these opportunities. Last point, home schooling deprives young people of yet another sphere of IRL interaction, exactly the wrong direction this day and age when young people put ever more energy into their online worlds and this is increasingky blamed for a mental health epidemic sweeping the Western world. These are just a few ideas that immediately came to mind upon watching your vid. Keep going with them, they are great!
Very interessting topic!
I think Covid might also play a big role why so many parents considered homeschooling. It has its pros abd cons but I think for e.g. neurodivergent children ( or for some at least) it could be the better option
I think home schooling is actually banned in Germany if you don’t have a very good reason for it.
I personally went to a public Montessori school (50% Montessori, 50% traditional classes) and it really supported me in this trajectory (pick your priorities, learn on your own, teacher as guide, not so much as authority figure ). So while there is valid criticism of Montessori (mostly the person and her view afaik) I really enjoyed the system and would love to send my kids to such a school eventually.
The issue is that a lot of these schools are private, so they are not attended by students from diverse backgrounds. My school was public & in a low income district, even though I grew up in the middle class and I was exposed to people from all kinds of economic situations, nationalities and backgrounds. I really hope I can find such a school for my kids one day…
Thank you for elaborating education pathways in Europe. As for Americans' homeschooling, I think it's ultimately libertarian, which began in the early 1970s, and really didn't expand until social media allowed its popularity (very likely adopted by Republican Party, who seek to make conservatives and libertarians compatible, I think in order to suppose they control the debate while both oppose liberalism). In order to attend any higher than secondary (highschool) education, one must graduate, at least with an equivalency certification. But, if that isn't achieved, a millionaire can jut pay their own way without having to borrow anything, too. As you may suspect here from my expression, million libertarians advocate themselves (often as actors).
Regarding access to universities , it depends where you live. Anglo-saxons universities , at least in North America (even Harvard) are very opened to homeschooler profiles. Also, homeschooling does not necessarily have to be for the full school year period. My kids were homeschooled and as such, we frequented many homeschooling families. We observed that typically, kids of 14-16 years old show interest to go to school. As any teenagers, at this age, many want to spend as little time as possible with their parents, and they are naturally choosing to re-enter the system. Some others obtain their diploma by sitting on official exams or standardized examz. Because of openess of anglo-saxons univerities, I have seen some entering university with a portfolio. A girl I know entered McGill university in Montreal, in law at 15 years old, showing up in the department with a portfolio and a lot of passion for law.
@@veroniquelauzon2801 there are no anglo-saxons univerities
@@veroniquelauzon2801 sorry, you spelled it correctly the first time, but unless you are referring to non-existing 19th century universities, there are none of those, too. Perhaps, it was just a generalization. Homeschooling is not as popular as American news may make it seem. Americans may be discouraged from supposing they should be rewarded on their own for good learning, but homeschooling is not the norm, it's an experiment, at best. The purpose of accredited learning is that it can be expected to attain a level of professional ethics, and this is not often explicitly stated, but rather considered built in, so to speak. I used to be a run on sentence champion, until my third try at English composition, with lasting bad points. Open society may seem to be an open complaint department. So, I wish you well in your education all the same. I think access is the key notion of entrance standards that will typically rely on highshool transcripts, if not placement testing.
@@philosophy-of-science-and-law I am sorry, English is not my first language. In French I would have used the term "anglophone". Of course homeschooling is not the norm but in the US, there are more than one million of homeschoolers. In Montreal, where I am from, there is an important community as well. When you say that it is an exprerience at the best, I would encourage you to look at empirical studies on the topic. Everyone can form an opinion on the topic but for most people rely on personal theory formed with little real knowledge of the subject. There are many known and influent people who were homeschooled: George Washington, T Roosevelt, Thomas Edison, Bertrand Russell, Marie Cury's kids, Queen Elizabeth II (an anglo-saxon queen ;).), Condoleeza Rice, to name a few, oh and Emma Watson for the Harry Potter fans. Not that celebrity matters so much but it still shows that if homeschooling is just an experience at the best, many of those experiences turned very well. Empirical studies on homeschooling are very interesting as well and tend to have been performed by independant researchers in the more recent years (This being said, I have not looked at post-covid research, it may have changed the portrait a bit).
@@veroniquelauzon2801 Empirical "studies" are not scientific, and any fame never improves that condition (all your examples are more or less about a century old). Soary to down your enthusiasm, but homeschooling would require a doctorate to perform with any success of staying with the times.
You refer to a number of educational theorists. You may be interested in looking up A. S. Neill and his English private school Summerhill, that he started in the 1930’s. It was a very unusual open child centred approach.
I find that a lot of the idoelogies that lead to people choosing to unchool their kids do it out of concern for what they will learn (or not learn) in school. In daily life, we are all exposed to people we don't like, who treat us poorly, to information that is biased or presented in miselading or malicious ways, there is no viable way to shield your children from these things. All these parents are doing is making it harder for their children to identify and fight against these 'evils' in the future. Shutting your child into an echochamber of what you consider appropriate for them to know, whether conservative or liberal or whatever else, is not going to do them any good. They need to develop the tools to fight against bad things, you're cutting the butterfly out of the coccoon and now it won't be able to fly.
You have literally zero idea of what goes on in a homeschooling environment and yet you are confidently describing your projection of how *you* would create one. Have you considered that?
@@addammadd Let's assume no one knows what happens in homeschooling (an assumption I don't accept) Isn't that part of the problem? Parents aren't educated to be teachers. They tend to lack the skill sets required to teach. I am a teacher. My wife is a teacher. If we were to homeschool, we'd have the skill sets. Ironically, the people I see homeschooling are themselves the most in need of education. It's ab echochamber for religious dogma, bigotry, and conspiracy and all while children fail to cultivate the critical thinking skills required to flourish in life.
Im aromantic asexual and I'm now really realizing that I dont want a long term partner. Part of it is what you said and I feel like myseld would become diluted almost
My brother's girlfriend was homeschooled and so was one of his friends from university. He didn't meet her through him but it turns out they knew eachother very well because homeschoolers have communities where they do group activities and learnings together! They also partake in a lot of community activities and events. They aren't as sheltered as some think 😊
The issue is it isn’t standardised and is down to the individual parent. There are many who are completely sheltered and brainwashed
Yea but a lot of the time they only socialize with other home schooled children who end up being the same in terms of religion or appearance. As long as you're being mindful to make sure your kids socialize with people from all walks of life..
@@Bringon-dw8dxexactly. the problem is that there’s no real governing body for homeschooling. parents who homeschool aren’t required to socialize their kids in other ways, which can lead to a lot of isolation if the parents don’t have good intentions
@@xtinkerbellax3 the same can be said of anyone in school in a small town. Also they have to socialise with children who are the same age as them so aren't used to being friends with kids who are older or younger. Whereas homeschool kids tend to have friends of a variety of ages which can be really beneficial.
This idea of homeschooling is a very gringo concept to us in Latin America. 'Cause rich kids here are getting the best education on private schools and universities, and studying abroad. And they use that knowlege on their favor against poor people who have few access to it. Schools are good for the kids, we have to think of a way to improve it to make a better society.
Finally a nuanced take on the subject 🙌
I love this topic it is so interesting!! I was raised in an alternative kind of school that follows this unschooling ideology but does it with in a community so you can both really free yourself from always being told what's good and what you should learn and how but doesn't isolate you from other kids or trap you inside your family and it did wonders for me. The first school like that is called Sudbury valley school and i think its the name of the system also Sudbury i think it will be very interesting for you to read about it because it does alot of what you were talking about❤
And also for everyone who is considering where to send their children ❤
I disagree with you on many issues but I like listening to you because I feel that you are true to yourself.
Could be cool if you share your thoughs, I think is importart to consider other views
1:45 Ah, yes. Michel Foucalt, the famously demure philosopher. Every time I hear a quote from him, all I can think is "wow, that guy is _so_ demure, it's crazy how measured and reserved everything he says is".
Jokes aside, as frustrated as I am with public schooling, I definitely don't think mini-cults like the one I was subjected to are ever going to be the answer. Even homeschooling co-ops basically just end up being schools where nobody's qualified to be teaching anything. Growing into a healthy, responsible, knowledgeable adult requires having learned not just a variety of skills but also a variety of perspectives, and the only effective way to accomplish that is some form of public schooling. They need reformed, not abolished.
I love your channel
Great video, as always! Was expecting you to bring up Wilhelm von Humboldt’s ideas about education as well - one of our professors was obsessed with WvH., so we ended up hearing a lot about him:))
in this one case the unschooling trend and everything else even if being used by entrepreneurs is just inherently interesting and thus worthy of being covered and discussed.
I just found this channel. First impressions, it seems like a goldmine :D
I would love to hear your thoughts on Sudbury schools, free schools, and villageschooling. Seems super similar to what you talk about.
A lot of people who hold those beliefs, also want the most "success" for their children.. typically in the form of earning potential. When that's the case, their children need to know how to navigate the world as it exists. Which requires exposure to the institutions. Even if you are against them, as Sun Tsu said "...know your enemy..."
Very good video as always! I would have loved if it was a bit longer and more precise but i loved the ideas
"Rolling Sterns" had me rolling indeed 😂
You’re now my favorite French person after Balzac! Wallahi!
I work at a large law office. At one point we were doing Q&A from the team leaders. One team leader said "A fact few know about me is I was home schooled." and he asked "Was anyone else here home schooled?". Silence. A room of ~150 legal folk / professional. Only one home schooled person. It was strange, but interesting.
That is interesting, but you have to also recognize that even today less than 10% of kids are homeschooled and twenty years ago when that person was growing up, the number was much smaller.
I constantly got stares when I was out in the middle of the day with my mom because people were unused to seeing kids not in school. These days when I mention that I was homeschooled, I hardly get a reaction from most people. And while I don't know of any other employees in my division of a large company that were homeschooled themselves, several are homeschooling their kids.
My sister in law is a state's attorney (and military vet) who was homeschooled.
I like to think that if kids have good parents that they are getting the best of both worlds when learning from school and at home. Unfortunately, not all parents are good, so I put more faith in public schools.
My parent always saw school for socializing but with they do claim that if the school did not do enough job I would have a special hour at home as well. Like Semi homeschooling I guess.
That beautiful road bike against the wall in the background 😍
I had horrible experiences in both public and private school, but unfortunately, I did not have good parents who could homeschool either. I taught myself most of what I know.
Thank you! Wonderful lecture!
Love your videos. Thank you!
Like, I get that public school is not perfect by any means and wanting to be anti-establishment, but the whole idea of unschooling seems very conspiracy brained. Also I feel like the hyper individualism, the lack of disciplining and socialization as well as teaching them to not respect certain authority figures, etc will just end up creating sociopaths 🫤
Not to mention that it will collapse the society as a whole.
People who do this have money, so the kids won't lining up to the soup kitchen.
"will just end up creating sociopaths " so you believe that loving, caring parents create sociopath but severe bullying at school does not ???
Your ignorance is proving that public schools are ineffective. Bullying is extremely potent to create monsters!
Here I quote a study made on school shooters "Most school shooters have experienced being bullied by their classmates for weeks, months, or years"
@@BaiMengLing You're assuming the parents are loving, that is not true in all cases. You sound like you need to work out your school experience with a professional.
To anyone how is interested on why Kropotkin may have chosen a French expression to describe his idea even though he was Russian: French was highly used by the Russian upper class in daily conversations but it was also the language of science and culture - similarly to other countries at that time. It was due to different reasons, including westernization by Peter the Great in the 18th century and Napoleon's invasion to Russia in early 19th century. Also French was considered prestigious and children of wealthy families were educated by French tutors or were sent to France to study.
(There is an ongoing joke in Russian learning communities that one puts a lot of effort into learning Russian to enjoy Tolstoy or Dostoevsky in original, only to realize that so many dialogues are written in French.)
17:44 J'ai immediatement pensé à Lagasnerie! 3: Une aspiration au dehors - éloge de l'amitié. Il est passé à F inter à l'époque et Salamé était toute chambouliversée. ^^
Anecdotally, I've seen both sides. I don't work in schools but I work with them constantly, and at least in the US, they are such a mess rn. Teachers are burnt out, admin/leadership is constantly cycled out, kids with behavioral problems are ignored at the detriment to all the other children in the classroom.
On the other hand I know multiple home schooled adults and families home schooling their kids. Some people are all the better for it, others have been completely screwed by it. It takes a lot of work as a parent to ensure a homeschooled kid is properly socialized and, frankly, properly educated. It's such a case by case thing.
I've met people who didn't really learn to read until they were adults because homeschooling meant free labor in their house. People whose families used homeschooling as indoctrination rather than education. People who have struggled to survive their entire adult lives because of how unprepared their homeschooling left them for the real world. But also people who dedicated everything to educating their kids. People who had to remove kids from school because of bullying and how much their kids blossomed afterwards. Unfortunately the reality is homeschooling is very unregulated. It may be the right choice for a kid or it might ruin their life and no one gets a say if it does.
Unschooling? Abolition of the Family? Stirner, Freire, Kropotkin?
Is this an Andrewism video?
Either way, even though I dont completely agree with you it's probably bc I don't have that much contact on how social media sees these things. Great work as always
The best way to do things is via Democratic Schooling. Unschooling can closely resemble (or even outright become) Democratic Schooling with the right community supports in place, but by default is (like all forms of homeschooling) remarkably unaccountable and frequently rife with abuse.
One of the biggest crisis for Western democracies, specifical the US, is that no one thinks of structural issues as "political questions." Our lived experience is capitalist realism. As such things like the relationships one has to their labor, or what our foreign policy looks like or why it's pursed the way it is ECT. Most people don't see those as political questions bc those questions haven't been on the table since finalization of the economy in 1970's. All those structural questions are on rails. As a result of the mass disbelief that those things can change through mass politics it results in disgruntled people just choosing to opt out. Most home school is an attempt to opt out of the system the parent sees as corrupt (often for legitimate reasons). The thing with opting out though is that it doesn't really change your conditions. It certainly doesn't do anything to up end the system. It's just surrender with the patina of a sense of control and that often is enough since these people are also financially comfortable as well.
Love me a video full of quotes from anarchists
I’m new here! I have thoughts.
1) Cool video, great points.
2) cool voice!
Ha. I was unschooled for a couple years in high school. The result is that i was hilariously behind in some school subjects but cultivated an inner curiosity and hunger for learning for the joy of it. It also made me socially awkward.
I was monstrous as a high school student. I was conniving, manipulative, and I had so many plans. I learned how adults can be abused, I learned how to make them do what I wanted. The only reason that didn't run away entirely is because there was enough people at my school that by the law of large numbers I wasn't able to keep getting away with it. I was fighting hard to have fewer adults in my life, if my family had given it and let me be homeschooled I would be a genuine monster. The fact that there were teachers who had experience and training and understood why I was the way I was is the reason I am an adult. If I was homeschooled I would likely be smarter than most of my peers but I would have genuinely no social skills. public schooling is the only reason I am at all a well-rounded person and the only reason I grew to be better than I was
"to think that any parent is just as good if not better than an entire school of teachers is ridiculous" - now this is another good example that offers some teaching opportunities. One such opportunity is in teaching some logical reasoning. Can u see where it was I claimed that "any parent is just as good if not better than an entire school of teachers"? Is an argument better made if it addresses the actual claims, or is it better if it creates its own claims and argues against them instead?
A bachelor in education these days will contain a significant component of reflective practice. Part of this is to reflect on personal educational experience, i.e. when the trainee teacher was a student. The implication here is that our own experiences underpin our personal ideas about how teachers teach. That includes parents, who can also draw on those experiences just as much as a formally trained teacher can. And they often do, seeking information, peer support, and guidance on curricula. Furthermore, teaching is a lifelong journey of the dialectic of reflection and action. When teachers "qualify" they are at the beginning of that journey and still have it all to learn, daily. Teaching is a contextual endeavour and not only are no two learners the same, but often there are differences from one day to the next within the same learner. There are many factors, even some unknowable, and an untrained parent can learn and be as effective as a formally qualified teacher, which bears out in the literature that finds homeschooled children can and often are as academically and socially adept as their formally schooled peers. And on Malala, the point there was to gain access to education, not to mandate a particular form.
Overall, there is no perfect answer to education, and both ways have their pros and cons. However, it's well known in the educational literature that the current framework and curricula for public education has many flaws, for example in its standardised testing procedures and rigid curricula, as well as the "banking method" mentioned in this video. One of the outcomes can be seen in the diminishing existence of critical faculties among the general population. Some critics even argue this is actually an aim of education. Thus, there are plenty of good arguments for homeschooling, and just like any educator, those who homeschool can and should be guided in their praxis, as well as seek collaboration opportunities with their homeschooling peers - or even with formally trained teachers. There's nothing to stop anyone, within reason, becoming a good educator. But the key in all cases is in that ongoing process of collaborative reflection and action and the educator's commitment to an attitude of lifelong learning.
the reason for posting that here and not replying to the other comment is that for whatever bizarre reason, my reply was censored by YT
@@abody499 You aren't being censored, both of your comments are still up. You just don't understand the UA-cam interface. And I'm choosing not to respond to you because I do not think that you are someone who could learn from a conversation. You think pulling children out of school with no curriculum for homeschooling and no parental training is a valid option, I believe that public school should be required as a minimum. You think that every parent should have the right to remove their children from education entirely and that is sickening.
What I find the most interesting here is that ur not at all a good advert for that which uv claimed the public school has done for u. At every opportunity in this exchange uv been rude, presumptuous, intellectually dishonest, rigid, and bizarrely the opposite of the self-descriptions offered in ur OP here. But this isn't surprising for me, because these aren't unusual traits in the general population, which is well argued in the educational literature to come out of the dominant epistemology of the education in western liberal democracies.
@@abody499 I am behaving that way because you are the same in my eyes and I am engaging with you because it is good for the algorithm. I think you are not someone I could have and earnest discussion with so I am arguing with you for my entertainment and to help push this video in the algorithm. I admit, I have been vulgar and intellectually dishonest after seeing responses from you because I don't think that putting effort into the conversation would be rewarding for me or you. instead I mumble into my speech to text while I play video games after work. because I deal with a lot of frustrations and horror, I tend to have a specific energy of dealing with people I find to be stressful online. If you plan to generalize the public school education based off of your interactions with me, I have no control over that. But that also makes you the kind of person to generalize based off of impressions you made on the internet instead of looking at studies or interacting with people in your life. and, that is also discrediting every single person who is better than me. You are ignoring every single person who went to a public school who isn't behaving in the way that you assume I behave. You are making emotional, personal judgments based off of one stranger on the internet, possibly because your own circle in life isn't open too many people.