I have anchored by necessity with a tandem, and Bahamian, many times with no drag at all, but I attach the tandem with several metres of chain to the anchor rode (chain) ahead of the main. That way the tandem does not affect the angle/orientation of the main.
We had customers on board with about 20 - 25 knots of wind one evening. Our 65lb bruce was continuing to drag. It came loose about 4 times and in desperation I attached our fortress to the back with about 6ft of chain. I knew this was a hail marry but it was all I knew to do before moving anchorages at night. Nevertheless the two anchors held us all night. I know tandem isn't ideal for most circumstances but it's something I never want to completely cross off the possible solutions. Love your videos and thumbs up from south florida!
Thanks for the info. I used a 45 # cqr as the main anchor and a large fortress anchor with 10’ of chain between them I had a 10 to one scope. I used this anchorage around Destin Florida during hurricane Dennis a few years back. When I came back after the Hurricane my 39’ horizon sailboat was sitting were I left her all the other boats anchored around me were on shore. I was able to pull the cqr out and get it back on the boat. I could not get the fortress to release from the bottom. Had to mark the anchor and came back with a large power boat to pull the fortress out. This sold me on tandem anchoring in a storm. But after watching this video I am rethinking this. The eye of hurricane Dennis went over Destin and Ft Walton. This was sandy bottom. Again thanks for the video.
I use the same technique, with a 33 pound authentic Bruce anchor as a primary and a 50 pound knock off CQR secondary. Although i have never measured the holding power, it holds my 20,000 pound 35 foot sailboat nicely. Oh, the CQR dragged on me in 25 knot winds in sand on it's own, and the Bruce held in 45 knot winds, sandy bottom on it's own. A couple weeks ago a 45 foot cement boat dragged into my boat, getting caught on my bowsprit with 45 knot winds. It took 2 of us all our strength to separate them. Even with all that extra force, my anchors didn't drag at all. Before next spring, I will be upgrading the Bruce to a 55 pound Rocna. Switching the Bruce to my secondary and the CQR to a spare. I think I will feel more comfortable sleeping in a busy anchorage with that setu0.
I appreciate your great videos and analysis. It is fascinating seeing scientific experiments producing real data on a subject that is so shrouded in superstition and subjectivity! But now whenever a salty sailor in a harbour bar lectures me on why his Danforth / CQR /Bruce is the best anchor in the world, I have to smile to myself and bite my tongue! On a more serious note.... Your 'veer test' is very interesting but I wonder if the rate of veer could be a factor. It seems that your test is with a constant veering pressure. In the real world, perhaps the veering would be more gradual and spasmodic- allowing the anchor to re-bury itself at different angles as the wind gradually shifts. You could simulate this by exerting a straight line pull force after every x degrees of veer before resuming the veer force. Just a thought.
I'll be donating as soon as I feel like I can afford it(really poor right now). I'm sure these tests will save me significant money and heartache in the future. Thank you!
Hmm... I think you can make tandem anchoring work. 1. The anchor with the greatest holding power must be furthest from the boat. 2. It is mounted in the anchor at the front, with a short chain. Eg. just 2 meters. 3. much more scope must be laid out than usual. not below 12:1 So I think it works. It's about having a perfectly straight pull from the rear anchor to the first anchor and to the boat.
Aye Steve and thank you very much. This is a very clear way of doing tests. The sub’s telling exactly what anchor, rode, scope, weight etc. Double cameras was a very instructional way of showing actual results. 👍🏽
Awesome work! Would love to see you test the so-called "Bahamian Moor." It was recently discussed on the Great Loop forum and there are a lot of questions about its effectiveness in tidal reversing and storm conditions.
Great work! We have an 85 lb Mantus as our primary and a Fortress FX-125 as our secondary. Sometimes I assemble it on the bottom or in the dinghy. I usually put the fortress out inline for the prevailing wind I expect, and leave an "N" in the 25' chain between them. Rode through some pretty big blows (70+ kt) and it let us sleep like babies.
Another great piece of empirical anchoring research. I had always thought that tandem anchoring would be a good tactic, especially after reading Alain Gree's 'Anchoring and mooring techniques illustrated'. You have changed my mind on that. Perhaps you might try your hand at examining how twin anchors would work. This is another potential storm tactic. Most people would have a next generation anchor on a fairly lengthy chain rode and perhaps an old CQR/Danforth on a slightly shorter chain and longer rope rode. You are well on your way to a PhD in modern anchoring!
Very interesting, thank you. Going back 10 years to when I bought my last anchor, Spade's advice was dont Tandem anchor but Rocna said their anchor could be tandem anchored and had holes drilled to facilitate this. Their recommendation was to link the anchors with at least a boat length of chain which is much longer than the link you used. Maybe you could revisit this subject with maybe a 12 metre length of chain between anchors?
I think you should try this again but attach the second anchor chain to the original anchors’ shackle not directly to the back of the anchor. That’s the way I’ve read about it being done. Since most boats still carry a Bruce or CQR start with that alone in a straight line holding test. Then add a Danforth high tensile which is the most likely 2nd anchor or stern hook that would be on the boat and test again. Then remove the original Bruce or CQR and test just the Danforth. Now, test an equivalent weight Excel or Vulcan by it self as a comparison. I don’t consider the double anchors to be a good solution for poor holding power but it would be interesting to know if it helps for those boats with the lesser anchors and a storm on the way. Thanks for everything you are doing.
Steve, thank you so much for your great efforts!! I was looking forward to this test. Initially I thought that a tandem anchor rode should be connected at the attachment point of the primary because it seems that the secondary rode may exert an upwards force on a buried anchor. Or have a 3 way with the primary very short and the tandem longer.......but I can see that would make little difference in the end. No tandems for me!! Thanks again.
Thanks for the tests! I don't know how common slipping a second anchor by chain with a shackle resting on the shackle of the first is. I and some others have used it where the 1st is known to be insufficient against a storm. The second can also be deployed down the 1st from deck already set. Possible benefit being not disrupting the angle and veering as it is from a tail mount. The 2nd has in practice always been larger than the 1st and larger than practical to roller mount on the vessel. Acts of less than ideal limited options rather than a great plan.
I would have thought the idea is to have two anchors that are good on different bottoms. ie, a Fortress with a Fisherman behind. Mind you, I would still have put out two separate anchor / rodes as first preference. It would be interesting to hear your views on anchoring this way.
At first I was thinking about how much seabed you are tearing up with these tests, but then I thought about about much more seabed will be saved by people getting the right anchor setup and not dragging anchor. Just maybe you are a biological hero.
Hi Steve, Thanks very much for the post and results. Great to see the real life results with both anchors. Well done. If caught in adverse conditions I intend to do a Vee Set (off the same rode), Drew Frye style
Hi Steve, this was always going to be a bit of a controversial topic, I have never liked the idea of tandem achoring. I thought where you rigged the tandem anchor was the least effectual ..... all the force imparted from a tandem anchor through the rode would promote the lifting of the primary when under tension. IMHO when examining tandem anchoring think it would be benificial to test the difference between tandem anchoring points i.e. inline with shank (top of shank), and at the point of attachment for primary anchor ....... and then you have the equal length split anchor bridels etc .... I know getting into deep water, anyway certainly appreciate you confirming some of my own thoughts on tandem anchoring, keep up the great work, cheers.
Hi great video! I was always taught when tandem anchoring to have the primary anchor at the end of the rig, and the additional anchor attached to the primary rode, on another length of chain. The secondary anchor is placed closer to the vessel and its additional chain is not too long to interfere with the primary, this way both anchors are able to operate in the correct manner. This also helps with veering.
Steve, great video. I have a suggestion for another test scenario... I have a 43' boat with an Original Bruce (50 k) and a Rocna (20 k). I would like to see how that combo would work with the heavier Bruce as the primary (using a newly drilled connection point for the Rocna about 1 - 2 inches above the Bruce's flukes). I don't think the heavier Bruce (or any anchor) would lift out or roll over as easy when it has a much smaller tandem anchor behind it. I theorize that when the combination does break loose from the bottom (such as when a storm has a major wind direction change) it will be easier for a reset to occur if the heavier anchor is the main anchor. I also have a 20 # Fortress which I have never used because I've seen too many of them fail to hold at tidal changes. Thanks again for the work you are doing!
Super Work Steve! I would have attached the chain of the secondary anchor on the chain of the primary anchor a few feet in FRONT of it? The two anchors would not directly interacted with each other? The secondary not lifting the tip of the primary?
Looks like the trench just makes for the perfect substrate for the second anchor. I wonder if a plow anchor would be an excellent primary anchor when paired with a Bruce. The plow would “plow” the seabed 🤣
Yes, CQR45-Danforf100. Longer 2nd chain so unlikely 2nd follows the 1st. At least a few of us long anchor outs testing whatever extra iron we have, though I have never attached to the tail. Working well through many storms.
Great to see this. I am guilty of giving the concept more than its fair share of benefit of the doubt. I'm not really surprised to see that the secondary anchor can upset the primary anchor, particularly when the primary anchor is a finely tuned top performer by itself. Interesting though that being in the furrow seemed to help the bruce anchor. My reasoning is as follows: If a storm is coming and you have a heavy old fishermans anchor down in the bilge, it might be the best you've got if the bottom is hard or rocky but in most bottoms it will just dig a deep furrow, so in most cases it won't help that much to put it down as a primary anchor, but will it hurt? It's not going to help at all if it is still in the bilge. Even as dead weight it is better to have it on the bottom than in the boat and fisherman's anchors are typically heavy so even if it turns into a kellet it's doing something. I also have the sense that fishermans anchors set really readily so even if it rolls out and lands on its back it'll set again, plus don't they also tolerate short scope well too? The effect of having a tandem anchor tied to it is similar to operating at short scope. So have a big, dumb, heavy fishermans anchor as the primary. If it hits a big rock it'll catch and do the one thing it does well. If not it will dig a narrow furrow. If other anchors behave like the bruce that furrow might help a lot, guiding the tip of the flukes of the tandem anchor down deep (maybe. Seemed to do that for the little Bruce). Attach the secondary rode to the crown of the fishermans anchor and keep it short. If the secondary anchor digs deep enough the line from the secondary anchor to the boat would come close to passing through the primary anchor on the surface of the mud so the primary anchor may not even suffer from being lifted off the bottom. The secondary anchor does its thing (dives) and the primary anchor does its thing (slides along the bottom, staying down in part because of its weight, catching on anything solid it hits) If you have one of the modern star performers, great, but if you have a heavy fishermans anchor and a modest sized fortress, this might be a way to get the best out of the fortress.
Really great work, Steve, thanks! The first part of the video makes a case for kellets and their ability to improve the holding power of less than efficient anchor, even if only without swing. I wonder if testing anchors with and without a kellet would be within the scope (pun intended) of your interests. Awesome testing and analysis. Again, thanks.
Excellent videos. Thank you Steve. Never tried tandem anchoring but my gut reaction would have been to deploy the primary anchor first with the tandem anchor sliding down the main rode on its own rope/chain. Never tried this either. Have you, do know if it would work?
Hi Steve, Thanks for taking this complicated topic on. My understanding is that the secondary should never have a higher holding power which would make the fortress a poor choice. As others have suggested, the best scenario may be a boats length of chain attached to the primary rode attachment with a floating line attached from the primary to the secondary to facilitate retrieval. The veering is of course very interesting as this is a method for storm anchoring indicating that for hurricanes this might not be ideal because of the veering.
What would happen if you attached the secondary anchor rode up the chain 10-15' from the primary anchor rather than directly on the primary? Would the aleviate the issue of the secondary pulling the primary out of the bottom??
Have you thought about making the attachment for the tandem anchor on the bottom of the spade in the center of the primary anchor. This may keep both anchor angles more favorable at higher thrust. Absolutely love the videos!!
Thanks for the suggestion, Justin. But, if I conduct new tandem tests, I will probably abandon attaching the tandem rode to the primary anchor. Instead, I will connect AHEAD of the primary (on the main rode). This setup might best be refered to as a "Tandem V".
Interesting, I use a second anchor to weigh down the rode, not tied to the anchor itself. I often throw a ten lb mushroom or outrigger weight about 20 feet from the anchor, carabiner clip it on. It still rotates with shifting tides and keeps the rode down and anchor seems to stay set. Have you tested this technic yet?
Great video, any thoughts about what you would do in a significant storm now that we can confirm tandem anchoring doesn't seem to work. Multiple anchors each with their own rode? Maybe just one massive anchor?
It appears you did the tandem anchor set up all wrong. If you watch SSL they rigged a tandem anchor by attaching the 2nd anchor to the main anchor chain about 3 metres before the primary anchor on about 6 or 8 metres of chain and rode out the fringe of a hurricane and didn't drag. Their method would not pull the primary anchor off the bottom.
Hi Steve Very interesting as always. You might be interested to read an article by Michael Seamus Kildea - about 10 years ago. He tandem anchors a lot, but with the primary at 6:1 and the second anchor at 3:1. It may work completely differently. Love the series.
@@flygoodwin This would be a very interesting test. Would only do this in severe conditions, I'm thinking 7:1 and 5:1 or longer. Set the 5:1 first to keep to under the other rode.
We have had a 45 cqr as main and back up anchors on our sailboat for 45 years. I am interested in the performace of two hooked in tandem. I wached one of your videos that did some tandem testing and am concerned about the lead anchor breaking loose due to the force on the trailing anchor. What is the best way to hook two cqrs together?
Ray, I cannot give advise as I have no experience with alternative Tandem Anchor Methods. In the future, I may test 2 anchors on 1 rode by attaching the secondary anchor's connecting chain to the rode (just ahead of the primary anchor). This "Y" arrangement MIGHT work better than the "In-line" method.
Always did wonder if this type of thing would actually work its so cool to see footage of it happening and being debunked cuase I think naturally you might thing if 1 anchor is good 2 must surely be better but no!!
I am not yet prepared to make a general "best anchor" statement. Even when my work is done, the answer may be dependent on ones priorities (holding power? durability? setting speed? cost? etc.). I will say that in the (3) seabed types where I have conducted (short scope) holding power comparisons, the Steel Excel #5 has (in total) had the highest holding power.
Oh boy Steve can you ever get into an argument if you start talking to other sailors about anchors. Only one other topic gets sailers more angry is the best storm tactics, para anchor or drogue. In my ten years of sailing fro Desolation Sound to central Mexico my conclusions about anchors boil down to this: a modern anchor, heavy chain, and lots of rode. I carried 300 feet of 3/8 chain and a 35 lb rocna, for a 12000 lb boat, so very heavy. I wouldn't even consider the Bruce or it's copies and I wonder why you used it in this test. They are junk as far as I am concerned.
you should have tested V Tandem or other types and so you brought your personal bias. sorry for you having to make all tests for us to watch and dont help, and sorry for those macroalgae forests that are being destroyed with tests and wannabe sailors that dont care about ocean and use a tractor around all seabed.
I have anchored by necessity with a tandem, and Bahamian, many times with no drag at all, but I attach the tandem with several metres of chain to the anchor rode (chain) ahead of the main. That way the tandem does not affect the angle/orientation of the main.
We had customers on board with about 20 - 25 knots of wind one evening. Our 65lb bruce was continuing to drag. It came loose about 4 times and in desperation I attached our fortress to the back with about 6ft of chain. I knew this was a hail marry but it was all I knew to do before moving anchorages at night. Nevertheless the two anchors held us all night.
I know tandem isn't ideal for most circumstances but it's something I never want to completely cross off the possible solutions.
Love your videos and thumbs up from south florida!
Excellent point! Also leads me to continue to avoid using bruce anchors...
@@CoastLife they are very good at a few things and very bad at a lot.
Thanks for the info. I used a 45 # cqr as the main anchor and a large fortress anchor with 10’ of chain between them I had a 10 to one scope. I used this anchorage around Destin Florida during hurricane Dennis a few years back. When I came back after the Hurricane my 39’ horizon sailboat was sitting were I left her all the other boats anchored around me were on shore. I was able to pull the cqr out and get it back on the boat. I could not get the fortress to release from the bottom. Had to mark the anchor and came back with a large power boat to pull the fortress out. This sold me on tandem anchoring in a storm. But after watching this video I am rethinking this. The eye of hurricane Dennis went over Destin and Ft Walton. This was sandy bottom. Again thanks for the video.
I use the same technique, with a 33 pound authentic Bruce anchor as a primary and a 50 pound knock off CQR secondary.
Although i have never measured the holding power, it holds my 20,000 pound 35 foot sailboat nicely.
Oh, the CQR dragged on me in 25 knot winds in sand on it's own, and the Bruce held in 45 knot winds, sandy bottom on it's own.
A couple weeks ago a 45 foot cement boat dragged into my boat, getting caught on my bowsprit with 45 knot winds. It took 2 of us all our strength to separate them.
Even with all that extra force, my anchors didn't drag at all.
Before next spring, I will be upgrading the Bruce to a 55 pound Rocna. Switching the Bruce to my secondary and the CQR to a spare.
I think I will feel more comfortable sleeping in a busy anchorage with that setu0.
Excellent work! Thank you for taking the time to assemble these excellent test videos. The manufacturers should all get together and bless you. 🎉
Thank you again! It really helps solidify some anchor theory to see it happening on video! Really appreciate the immense amount of time your spending!
Glad it was helpful!
I appreciate your great videos and analysis.
It is fascinating seeing scientific experiments producing real data on a subject that is so shrouded in superstition and subjectivity!
But now whenever a salty sailor in a harbour bar lectures me on why his Danforth / CQR /Bruce is the best anchor in the world, I have to smile to myself and bite my tongue!
On a more serious note.... Your 'veer test' is very interesting but I wonder if the rate of veer could be a factor. It seems that your test is with a constant veering pressure. In the real world, perhaps the veering would be more gradual and spasmodic- allowing the anchor to re-bury itself at different angles as the wind gradually shifts. You could simulate this by exerting a straight line pull force after every x degrees of veer before resuming the veer force. Just a thought.
I'll be donating as soon as I feel like I can afford it(really poor right now). I'm sure these tests will save me significant money and heartache in the future. Thank you!
This, in particular since it deals with storm tactics, potentially is a life-saver. Well done!
Hmm...
I think you can make tandem anchoring work.
1. The anchor with the greatest holding power must be furthest from the boat.
2. It is mounted in the anchor at the front, with a short chain. Eg. just 2 meters.
3. much more scope must be laid out than usual.
not below 12:1
So I think it works.
It's about having a perfectly straight pull from the rear anchor to the first anchor and to the boat.
Aye Steve and thank you very much. This is a very clear way of doing tests. The sub’s telling exactly what anchor, rode, scope, weight etc. Double cameras was a very instructional way of showing actual results. 👍🏽
I'm just glad the double cameras did not end in a fouled mess. Or worse, destroyed!
Awesome work! Would love to see you test the so-called "Bahamian Moor." It was recently discussed on the Great Loop forum and there are a lot of questions about its effectiveness in tidal reversing and storm conditions.
Thanks for the idea for a future test.
A CQR primary with a fisherman tandem held us in mixed rock, weed and sand when neither worked alone.
Great work! We have an 85 lb Mantus as our primary and a Fortress FX-125 as our secondary. Sometimes I assemble it on the bottom or in the dinghy. I usually put the fortress out inline for the prevailing wind I expect, and leave an "N" in the 25' chain between them. Rode through some pretty big blows (70+ kt) and it let us sleep like babies.
This is so cool to see! Thank you so much for doing this and all the other tests!!
Steve. You need to do a tandem anchor in soft mud. I'm in Asia and it's all mud every forth anchor set slips in the early morning.
Another great piece of empirical anchoring research. I had always thought that tandem anchoring would be a good tactic, especially after reading Alain Gree's 'Anchoring and mooring techniques illustrated'. You have changed my mind on that. Perhaps you might try your hand at examining how twin anchors would work. This is another potential storm tactic. Most people would have a next generation anchor on a fairly lengthy chain rode and perhaps an old CQR/Danforth on a slightly shorter chain and longer rope rode.
You are well on your way to a PhD in modern anchoring!
Thanks, Jim.
Very interesting, thank you. Going back 10 years to when I bought my last anchor, Spade's advice was dont Tandem anchor but Rocna said their anchor could be tandem anchored and had holes drilled to facilitate this. Their recommendation was to link the anchors with at least a boat length of chain which is much longer than the link you used. Maybe you could revisit this subject with maybe a 12 metre length of chain between anchors?
@Darren Munsell never do that, the two anchors may tangle and if there is heavy weather it may be very dificult to take them out !
I think you should try this again but attach the second anchor chain to the original anchors’ shackle not directly to the back of the anchor. That’s the way I’ve read about it being done. Since most boats still carry a Bruce or CQR start with that alone in a straight line holding test. Then add a Danforth high tensile which is the most likely 2nd anchor or stern hook that would be on the boat and test again. Then remove the original Bruce or CQR and test just the Danforth. Now, test an equivalent weight Excel or Vulcan by it self as a comparison. I don’t consider the double anchors to be a good solution for poor holding power but it would be interesting to know if it helps for those boats with the lesser anchors and a storm on the way.
Thanks for everything you are doing.
Steve, thank you so much for your great efforts!! I was looking forward to this test. Initially I thought that a tandem anchor rode should be connected at the attachment point of the primary because it seems that the secondary rode may exert an upwards force on a buried anchor. Or have a 3 way with the primary very short and the tandem longer.......but I can see that would make little difference in the end. No tandems for me!! Thanks again.
Love these anchor test videos!!
Thanks for the tests! I don't know how common slipping a second anchor by chain with a shackle resting on the shackle of the first is. I and some others have used it where the 1st is known to be insufficient against a storm. The second can also be deployed down the 1st from deck already set. Possible benefit being not disrupting the angle and veering as it is from a tail mount. The 2nd has in practice always been larger than the 1st and larger than practical to roller mount on the vessel. Acts of less than ideal limited options rather than a great plan.
Hummm.... interesting. Love the tandem tests.
Thanks again. I would have liked to see fortress with a tandem, in my case a mantis. I think I have to give you a donation. Thanks.
I would have thought the idea is to have two anchors that are good on different bottoms. ie, a Fortress with a Fisherman behind.
Mind you, I would still have put out two separate anchor / rodes as first preference.
It would be interesting to hear your views on anchoring this way.
At first I was thinking about how much seabed you are tearing up with these tests, but then I thought about about much more seabed will be saved by people getting the right anchor setup and not dragging anchor. Just maybe you are a biological hero.
I'm not so sure of the "hero" status, but I agree that my work might have a net positive effect on seabed damage.
Hi Steve, Thanks very much for the post and results. Great to see the real life results with both anchors. Well done. If caught in adverse conditions I intend to do a Vee Set (off the same rode), Drew Frye style
excellent experiment
Hi Steve, this was always going to be a bit of a controversial topic, I have never liked the idea of tandem achoring. I thought where you rigged the tandem anchor was the least effectual ..... all the force imparted from a tandem anchor through the rode would promote the lifting of the primary when under tension.
IMHO when examining tandem anchoring think it would be benificial to test the difference between tandem anchoring points i.e. inline with shank (top of shank), and at the point of attachment for primary anchor ....... and then you have the equal length split anchor bridels etc .... I know getting into deep water, anyway certainly appreciate you confirming some of my own thoughts on tandem anchoring, keep up the great work, cheers.
good point!
Thanks for the ideas, Dan.
Hi great video! I was always taught when tandem anchoring to have the primary anchor at the end of the rig, and the additional anchor attached to the primary rode, on another length of chain. The secondary anchor is placed closer to the vessel and its additional chain is not too long to interfere with the primary, this way both anchors are able to operate in the correct manner. This also helps with veering.
Steve, great video. I have a suggestion for another test scenario...
I have a 43' boat with an Original Bruce (50 k) and a Rocna (20 k). I would like to see how that combo would work with the heavier Bruce as the primary (using a newly drilled connection point for the Rocna about 1 - 2 inches above the Bruce's flukes). I don't think the heavier Bruce (or any anchor) would lift out or roll over as easy when it has a much smaller tandem anchor behind it. I theorize that when the combination does break loose from the bottom (such as when a storm has a major wind direction change) it will be easier for a reset to occur if the heavier anchor is the main anchor. I also have a 20 # Fortress which I have never used because I've seen too many of them fail to hold at tidal changes.
Thanks again for the work you are doing!
Thanks for the suggestion, Keith.
Attach the tandem anchor at the end of the chain. Then attach the primary anchor on a "20 foot leader", 50 feet up the chain from the tandem anchor.
Great work. Loving the sarca excel I got after watching your videos.
Super Work Steve! I would have attached the chain of the secondary anchor on the chain of the primary anchor a few feet in FRONT of it? The two anchors would not directly interacted with each other? The secondary not lifting the tip of the primary?
That would make for a good test. I'll put it on the list of possible future tests. Thanks.
Looks like the trench just makes for the perfect substrate for the second anchor.
I wonder if a plow anchor would be an excellent primary anchor when paired with a Bruce. The plow would “plow” the seabed 🤣
Yes, CQR45-Danforf100. Longer 2nd chain so unlikely 2nd follows the 1st. At least a few of us long anchor outs testing whatever extra iron we have, though I have never attached to the tail. Working well through many storms.
Great to see this. I am guilty of giving the concept more than its fair share of benefit of the doubt. I'm not really surprised to see that the secondary anchor can upset the primary anchor, particularly when the primary anchor is a finely tuned top performer by itself. Interesting though that being in the furrow seemed to help the bruce anchor. My reasoning is as follows: If a storm is coming and you have a heavy old fishermans anchor down in the bilge, it might be the best you've got if the bottom is hard or rocky but in most bottoms it will just dig a deep furrow, so in most cases it won't help that much to put it down as a primary anchor, but will it hurt? It's not going to help at all if it is still in the bilge. Even as dead weight it is better to have it on the bottom than in the boat and fisherman's anchors are typically heavy so even if it turns into a kellet it's doing something. I also have the sense that fishermans anchors set really readily so even if it rolls out and lands on its back it'll set again, plus don't they also tolerate short scope well too? The effect of having a tandem anchor tied to it is similar to operating at short scope.
So have a big, dumb, heavy fishermans anchor as the primary. If it hits a big rock it'll catch and do the one thing it does well. If not it will dig a narrow furrow. If other anchors behave like the bruce that furrow might help a lot, guiding the tip of the flukes of the tandem anchor down deep (maybe. Seemed to do that for the little Bruce). Attach the secondary rode to the crown of the fishermans anchor and keep it short. If the secondary anchor digs deep enough the line from the secondary anchor to the boat would come close to passing through the primary anchor on the surface of the mud so the primary anchor may not even suffer from being lifted off the bottom. The secondary anchor does its thing (dives) and the primary anchor does its thing (slides along the bottom, staying down in part because of its weight, catching on anything solid it hits)
If you have one of the modern star performers, great, but if you have a heavy fishermans anchor and a modest sized fortress, this might be a way to get the best out of the fortress.
Really great work, Steve, thanks! The first part of the video makes a case for kellets and their ability to improve the holding power of less than efficient anchor, even if only without swing. I wonder if testing anchors with and without a kellet would be within the scope (pun intended) of your interests.
Awesome testing and analysis. Again, thanks.
Definitely Interested in that !
Donald, I will put Kellet testing on the list of POSSIBLE future tests.
Excellent videos. Thank you Steve. Never tried tandem anchoring but my gut reaction would have been to deploy the primary anchor first with the tandem anchor sliding down the main rode on its own rope/chain. Never tried this either. Have you, do know if it would work?
Great job, i realy think This is the moast reality test you had done...
So, how to use 2 anchors?
Hi Steve,
Thanks for taking this complicated topic on. My understanding is that the secondary should never have a higher holding power which would make the fortress a poor choice. As others have suggested, the best scenario may be a boats length of chain attached to the primary rode attachment with a floating line attached from the primary to the secondary to facilitate retrieval. The veering is of course very interesting as this is a method for storm anchoring indicating that for hurricanes this might not be ideal because of the veering.
Thanks for the idea, Larry.
It’s like two hose clamps on a tube. Only one does the work. The second is there to comfort the mind
What would happen if you attached the secondary anchor rode up the chain 10-15' from the primary anchor rather than directly on the primary? Would the aleviate the issue of the secondary pulling the primary out of the bottom??
Have you thought about making the attachment for the tandem anchor on the bottom of the spade in the center of the primary anchor. This may keep both anchor angles more favorable at higher thrust.
Absolutely love the videos!!
Thanks for the suggestion, Justin. But, if I conduct new tandem tests, I will probably abandon attaching the tandem rode to the primary anchor. Instead, I will connect AHEAD of the primary (on the main rode). This setup might best be refered to as a "Tandem V".
@@flygoodwin would love to see this test
Interesting, I use a second anchor to weigh down the rode, not tied to the anchor itself. I often throw a ten lb mushroom or outrigger weight about 20 feet from the anchor, carabiner clip it on. It still rotates with shifting tides and keeps the rode down and anchor seems to stay set. Have you tested this technic yet?
Great video, any thoughts about what you would do in a significant storm now that we can confirm tandem anchoring doesn't seem to work. Multiple anchors each with their own rode? Maybe just one massive anchor?
THANK YOU
Thank you Steve!! Very informative
Thank you, thank you, thank you!
It appears you did the tandem anchor set up all wrong. If you watch SSL they rigged a tandem anchor by attaching the 2nd anchor to the main anchor chain about 3 metres before the primary anchor on about 6 or 8 metres of chain and rode out the fringe of a hurricane and didn't drag. Their method would not pull the primary anchor off the bottom.
24:28 tandem should be connected to the distal rode, not to the primary itself.
Hi Steve
Very interesting as always. You might be interested to read an article by Michael Seamus Kildea - about 10 years ago. He tandem anchors a lot, but with the primary at 6:1 and the second anchor at 3:1. It may work completely differently. Love the series.
That set-up would make an interesting test. I'll put it on the list of possible future tests. Thanks.
@@flygoodwin This would be a very interesting test. Would only do this in severe conditions, I'm thinking 7:1 and 5:1 or longer. Set the 5:1 first to keep to under the other rode.
Wow, tandem anchors. I anchor in Mud I wonder if tandems work in Mud.
We have had a 45 cqr as main and back up anchors on our sailboat for 45 years. I am interested in the performace of two hooked in tandem. I wached one of your videos that did some tandem testing and am concerned about the lead anchor breaking loose due to the force on the trailing anchor. What is the best way to hook two cqrs together?
Ray, I cannot give advise as I have no experience with alternative Tandem Anchor Methods. In the future, I may test 2 anchors on 1 rode by attaching the secondary anchor's connecting chain to the rode (just ahead of the primary anchor). This "Y" arrangement MIGHT work better than the "In-line" method.
Good stuff. Tnx
Always did wonder if this type of thing would actually work its so cool to see footage of it happening and being debunked cuase I think naturally you might thing if 1 anchor is good 2 must surely be better but no!!
So far what would you consider the best type of anchor for all seabeds, including rocky ones?
I am not yet prepared to make a general "best anchor" statement. Even when my work is done, the answer may be dependent on ones priorities (holding power? durability? setting speed? cost? etc.). I will say that in the (3) seabed types where I have conducted (short scope) holding power comparisons, the Steel Excel #5 has (in total) had the highest holding power.
@@flygoodwin Thank you for the response, will have to keep watching. Another year or two at this rate should yield some pretty definitive results.
Love that intro!
Thanks, Alex.
Oh boy Steve can you ever get into an argument if you start talking to other sailors about anchors. Only one other topic gets sailers more angry is the best storm tactics, para anchor or drogue. In my ten years of sailing fro Desolation Sound to central Mexico my conclusions about anchors boil down to this: a modern anchor, heavy chain, and lots of rode. I carried 300 feet of 3/8 chain and a 35 lb rocna, for a 12000 lb boat, so very heavy. I wouldn't even consider the Bruce or it's copies and I wonder why you used it in this test. They are junk as far as I am concerned.
you should have tested V Tandem or other types and so you brought your personal bias. sorry for you having to make all tests for us to watch and dont help, and sorry for those macroalgae forests that are being destroyed with tests and wannabe sailors that dont care about ocean and use a tractor around all seabed.
My Tandem experience is very good, use mantus 44m1 and danfoth back.