That's why I ended up juggling multiple single-player-full-party games (in the same setting) at once. One player "owned" the party, and if they wanted to have friends sit in and play some of the characters that was fine with me. But the game would go on even without those other people. Now I only have one left, and she already told me when she comes back from her summer vacation, she wants to try a different game, so I get to try to wrap up my campaign in a meaningful way in two and a half months.
Step 1 - Be a divination wizard. Step 2 - Solve mystery. Step 3 - Open a film noir-esque detective agency. Step 4 - I knew she was trouble when she walked through my door, because I’m a divination wizard
Me: Sits down to start working on the murder mystery his players are doing in the next session. Dungeon Dudes: I'm about to be the most well timed video of this man's career.
I once ran a vampire the masquerade game where the players got drawn into a conspiracy of vampires who were convinced that one of them was betraying the cabal. The players were chasing down leads only to find their prime suspect the next victim. The twist was I only picked who was the next to die by who the players suspected. Each NPC had enough motives and opportunity and could have been the mole so I didn't need to adjust much. The players loved it! Sadly I could only pull that off once with any player group
For people who are willing to dig up older fiction, Randall Garrett did a number of mystery stories with a detective named Lord D'Arcy set in a Victorian world with magic. Excellent mysteries!
My players were tracking a mysterious duo from early on in their campaign. They went 'off-track' looking for clues out in the woods, which provided the druid with some especially good opportunities to try to speak with animals and plants to find out more about events that had happened through there several months prior. It was a lot of fun helping the players to engage with the 'clues' on their own terms and it's been exciting to see them finally starting to piece together this long-term mystery!
D&D Buddy Cop comedy idea: An Inquisitive Rogue and a Knowledge Domain Cleric are partners. The Rogue ends up always accidentally killing suspects with their sneak attack damage and the Cleric is forced to Revivify them to question them.
"How are we going to question him now? He's got an arrow in his skull!" "Well, take the arrow out" ... "Wow. Turns out he was the bad guy, and we've unraveled his whole plan. What do we do now?" "Put the arrow back."
I like to setup npc motivations and a corresponding timeline of events that will occur without player interaction. I then throw an array of hooks and see which path they take. This allows me to improvise on a foundation. Sometimes they miss the cool rooftop chase sequence that I had planned but they have fun because they stopped assassins in another way or they failed to stop them and now have to deal with the fallout. Don’t assume the goals of your party. Roll with what they choose.
Regarding Magic in Mysteries: Depending on who they are, the bad guys also might know that Magic exists and what it could do, and even use it themselves.
I try to have at least 2 seperate clues in any mystery item in different places, such as shipping logs that are both in the captains office and the dock that both lead to the same result, to give my players choice of where to go.
Ive got a vampire npc that everyone suspects is a vampire, but he's also a changeling so the physical investigations of him while the party was talking with him all failed to determine he's a vampire. They then went to his house & I included very obvious hints that he's definitely a vampire, but also pretending to be someone else... well at least I thought it was obvious. Completed the mini campaign and no one figured it out. So, I get to reuse the character at another point I guess lol
It was kinda implied that his hat was too, even though we weren't told what it actually did. And Indy's whip has been the basis of more than one custom weapon I've given NPCs for flavor, such as: Whip of Prodding: +2 on attack and damage rolls, and once per turn they can add 1d6 lightning damage to a hit and the target must make a CON save at DC 10+(the lightning damage) or be pushed 5 feet into any free space of the whip wielder's choice. Since whips have Reach, this is useful for reaching over the front rank in combat, and moving the enemies around.
@@mal2ksc i would argue that Indy's hat is, additionally, a legendary item, having been potentially handed down from adventurer to adventurer. it always returns to its owner, AND will grant superhuman dexterity to its owner in order to return to its owner (grabbing the hat beneath massive stone traps)
I'm a very newb DM with less than a handful sessions under my belt, and one of the modules I ran was mystery-based. And just from that one 2.5-hour session, I already experienced "the players will find red herrings on their own," "how to provide the players with necessary clues when their skill checks completely fail them and/or when they just neglect to investigate a clue that's sitting right in front of them," and "keep a poker face when they get it correctly, and then watch as they throw themselves off the correct answer." It was a super fun experience. :D
How to Be a Great GM recently did an episode about making plants interesting and using plants and part of that episode involved Speak with Plants, so that might be a good video to somewhat expand on this.
I literally just thought, "The Dresden Files is a great example of.." and then Monty mentions The Dresden Files. (Get out of my head Monty!!) Such a great series and awesome inspiration. My wife's monk is definitely gonna love the Kenetic rings I homebrewed off of Harry's rings. (I'm only on "Small Favor" /book 10 so no spoilers please!!)
Perfect timing for me. Our 2nd session of me running a mystery campaign was yesterday. Somewhere between "dead end" and "make the wrong path the right path" is the PCs exploring a completely unplanned-for avenue of investigation that is still legitimate. This is where having a crib sheet of potential NPC names and other characteristics comes in extremely handy.
Finished Storm Front and Fool Moon. Now I've started Grave Peril. Fool Moon got me hooked. My friend recommended the Dresden Files to me. Being able to incorporate it into D&D at some point is just a nice bonus.
The Dresden Files is why I wish I had a mind wipe device I could use to re-read books. I have read the series through multiple times and enjoyed it immensely, but nothing beats that first read!
"Don't use red herrings. The players are their own red herrings." Seth Skorkowsky. An awesome early medieval mystery resource are the Brother Cadfael novels by Ellis Peters. Murder was never OK, just that investigative techniques were under developed. A clever party might steer the Shire-Reeve (Sheriff) to the actual guilty party instead of hanging some convenient vagrant.
My god this couldn’t have been better timed. I’m planning a campaign with my friends and wanted to add some mystery elements so this was super helpful!
I find it handy to make the mystery have stages and penalties for not solving the mystery by the end of each stage. For instance, if the party hasn’t figured it out by the end of day three, the purp claims another victim (usually someone they know and have interacted with). This allows you to give consequences but also drop more clues and get them back on the right path if they have gotten off the right trail. At the end they figure it out, but if they had put it together quicker, so in so would still be alive.
I have a mystery idea for ya'll that I'll just explain it here and now (and feel free to use it if you wish to.) A nobleman is awakened by a servant on board a ship when she unlocked and enters the room, and finds the corpse of a dead bard on the floor with a bloody dagger in the nobleman's hand. The bodyguard of the nobleman wasn't anywhere near the room, but rather was asleep at a table in the dining hall. There were two sailors acting as guards nearby who refused to admit that they fell asleep during their shifts. Outside the room was a strange bit of ash, but seemed unrelated to the case. The nobleman's room has a hidden safe provided for them during the trip that, when found, is already unlocked, but nothing stolen. There is, however, a bloody handprint inside. A couple of places hidden around the room also have a bloody handprint... places where a dagger could've been placed. Searching around the ship, the herbalist on board perscribed the bard a special sleeping medicine to help him rest as he wasn't sleeping very well... though she's strangely absent for most of the case, making people think she had something to do with it. It's only after that the floorboard under a rug is removed that A) a tiny bloodstain is under the rug, and B) another bloody dagger is found under the floorboard there. However the VIP room the nobleman was in had a somewhat weak anti-magic field in place, preventing magic from being cast in the room, but not stopping spells already in place, or spells being cast from outside the room and brought inside. Turns out the hidden dagger is a Dagger of Wounding... which the bard used on himself and hid there, prestidigitating most of the blood away, though missing the bit under the rug. The truth of the mystery was that the bard wanted revenge against the nobleman, and did the unthinkable: using his own Dagger of Wounding on himself and bleeding out in front of the nobleman as he was sleeping from the "medicine" that he was made to drink, as were the guards and bodyguard. A lot of red herrings were placed all to throw off the fact that it was a suicide made to look like a locked room murder. It's pretty clever what the cantrips Prestidigitation and Mage Hand can do combined with a scroll of Arcane Lock to help prevent anyone from getting in before the medicine wore off.
I like the first paragraph of your mystery, it has a lot of different things that the players can follow. I do have a slight problem with the second half however. For one, why wouldn't he just kill the nobleman instead of killing himself? To me that just doesn't make a lot of logical sense. Two, I feel like the ending takes away from the "Aha!" moment that the players get when they figure it out. While there's some satisfaction at proving the nobleman's innocence, there's no satisfaction at confronting the evildoer and someone getting their just desserts. So personally, I would change who done it to someone who was still alive and could pay for their actions. That's just my opinion anyway, and I will be using this as an inspiration for a ship bound murder mystery. I just had a thought, if you really wanted to go the 'suicide' route, make it so the bard doesn't actually die. Have the bard steal a herbalism kit from the herbalist to make a potion that when taken, makes the person drop into a close dead state, a feign death potion. His heart rate drops to the point where no pulse is felt, his breathing is slowed so there's no movement, etc, this would also explain why a revivify wouldn't work as he isn't actually dead. After an initial investigation, have the bard's body moved to the lowest deck to preserve the body in a cooler place. The bard wakes up and is hiding on the ship, possibly as another passenger with disguise self. So once they find out it was a suicide, they find that the body of the bard had disappeared and now it's a second mini mystery of finding the bard before the ship makes it to it's location and he gets away. You'll have to tweak earlier parts, but I feel this is a much more satisfying conclusion for the players.
Ooo, the puzzles in candle hold was fun and the DM did great at presenting the mystery. Through it was rather fun ending up one hitting a suit of amour without meaning too when discovering it was a construct without activating it. Plus the one who did it was a level 1 blood hunter. Lol.
So my first muster mystery is actually going to be a False Hydra. If you don’t know, it signs a song and anyone who hears it will never ever notice it when it comes to the surface to feed. Once it attacks it stop singing and people can see it, but once it disappears and starts singing again, people completely forget that it was ever there. But the people it takes are still missing so everyone around that person creates a reason as to why they are gone. So many ways of creating a great mystery lol
My campaign that I am playing right now is an intrigue and mystery campaign. One of my players designed a ranger who specializes in finding missing people by interrogating animals. He does that quite successfully. what he doesn't know is that the crow who gave him many formations is a druid who also happens to be the main antagonist of the campaign.
I really needed this advice about not hiding clues behind rolls a few months ago. I ran two mystery one shots with two different groups of players using the same culprit for both. Both times the players chose to question the suspect instead of just attacking and didn't roll high enough insight to be sure if he was lying or telling the truth and they let him go. The frustrating part is that to be safe I added a witness to the second mystery. They chose to believe the assassin instead of the person who watched him murder someone.
The multiple clues for one aspect thing is good advice. Pointy Hat says something similar. Also, the gume-shoe game thing. Yes, that sounds great. The players engage for the basics and skill checks are for extra stuff.
as soon as you said they might use speak with animals i remembered the first ever time outside xtra played dungeons and dragons and immediately solved the first major mystery with that spell
Sweet! I'm getting ready to run one of the adventures from Candlekeep Mysteries. I haven't run a mystery adventure yet, so this video has been very helpful! Thank you for the great videos!
Descent Into Avernus is kind of a mystery module. It is a very sandbox kind story. You discover all the various options & quests to pursue, but you have to choose what your group believes is the most important lead then pursue it. Because you can't map Avernus, the plane keeps throwing random crap @ you & you possibly get sidetracked & detoured from detective work to solve how to save the city.
My players 2 sessions ago decided to randomly venture into the Underdark on a whim to explore a couple of player backstories. Was slightly unexpected for me, but i did already have stuff prepared. Diving deep into all the old edition books for lore now. Heaps of fun!
I had 3 skeletons with the password to get past them written on their foreheads, split into 3 parts. The players didn't get it, all they had to do was read them in order but they made it so much more complicated than I could have imagined.
@@noahloftin7705 I got the skeletons + password from Lost Mines of Phandelver, and made it usable for the inhabitants of the area to not be attacked by having them draw the password on the skulls, but still be dangerous to invaders who didn't speak the password!
@@scruffyscruff that's awesome! I only ever got past the goblin cave in Lost Mines, as it was my first ever game of D&D, and we didn't end up going back to it, so I never experienced the rest of it!
Thankyou! Busy planning a noir mystery to slot in my current Eberron campaign to break up the action in the adventure for when my group hasn't got our players who only want to fight things. It happens occasionally and the ones who want more story involvement in the world can have some for a session two.
Butcher does some Scooby Doo shenanigans of using a clue you didn't see for Dresden to solve the big mystery. It happens too often but the smaller detective stuff is pretty good and doesn't feel like the big clue is missing to solve it yourself.
I haven't (yet) watched the video, but mysteries are currently fresh on my mind since I bough a Traveller (Mongoose publishing 2ed) module recently ( "Solomani adventure 1 - Mysteries on Arcturus station") :D Lenghty post ahead ;) But I think that the module is such a gem that a detailed explanation is worth it, you have been warned Sadly I'm not sure how easy it would be to (partially) convert it into a medieval setting, but it still is an *amazing* resource if nothing else to see how to maybe structure an adventure like that. Why is this one special? I've never seen anything like it in my life. The module is insanely replayable - you get a detailed cast of 10 characters and the murder could be anyone of them. It is "build your own mystery" with different tables and option for every relevant character, with different option both if you choose them as the murderer or if they are innocent (and of course you probably won't be using all of them anyway, but anywhere between 3 and all 10 depending on how "complicated" you want to have the mystery). You could build thousands of different mysteries with the setup provided - of course the DM has to do all the prep before the game, but I still love it (the module even warns that it is NOT meant to be run directly from the book without extensive prep work) Each detailed character has detailed their: - involvement, which is basically public information about them - background, which is secret info about their background - motive, usually connected to the background, but not always - every single character has a motive to be the killer. - Means - two or three different ways they could have done the murder with additional explanation on how them doing it that way would influence the state of the body and the crime scene (the DM chooses this, if they decide they are the murderer) - An alibi they tell the players if questioned, together with multiple options what they have really been up to, even if they were not the murderer, since they might want to hide something else - Different options for the alibi: it could be true or they could still have done something they wish to hide even if they didn't commit the murder, often you have multiple options for each alibi what they could have done instead (again the DM freely decides for each individual) - DCs (to use the D&D term) to get certain information about them (how hard is it to get their background story, how hard is it to punch holes in their alibi if it is false, how hard a confession would be if they are the murderer) - Modifiers for any interrogation rolls depending on how the players approach the NPC - are they hostile? Friendly? Do they try to bribe them? Any unique modifiers given the personality of the NPC (e.g. the PCs tying to take a valued possession form them for the investigation etc.) - Furthermore you also have a table to randomize the relationship between the suspects, so even with the exact same setup in terms of who the DM decides to use, the relationships between them could change drastically (suddenly one of the suspect might collude with the murderer etc. or (unknowingly) falsely accuse a different suspect). - And last but not least a random table to decide the general behaviour of the murderer. Do they want to kill the investigators or are they going to try to blame somebody else actively etc. And just to re-iterate the module is "Murder of Arcturus station", recently re-published and updated in "Solomani adventure 1 - Mysteries on Arcturus station" (it has just been updated and re-released a week ago, with certain improvements over the old version). Found the PDF on DriveThroughRPG for 15$ and I think I might get more out of this 15$ than I've ever gotten out of a D&D adventure (even if I just use it as inspiration)...
This is my favorite kind of dungeon dudes content. I love the open ended questions to help generate some creative ideas. Keep it up boys looking forward to the next one. You both help make my planning sessions even more creative and fun.
Perfect timing Dudes! Plotting a mystery right now where the players are hired to solve a murder that may uncover a hidden kabal of lycans within the village.
I had a murder mystery going on behind another murder mystery. They solved the first one, but completely missed the second, until they just, directly engaged the situation with no regard for mystery at all. I loved it. There was a werewolf killing people in the woods, and someone else doing so in town. The townsfolk blamed the werewolf for both. The town murderer would break into the inn rooms, and kill them in the night, and dump them close to the edge of the woods. The town murderer tried and failed to break into the party's room one night, and when they tried again after the party had called the murders solved, they just opened the door in the night, and attacked the person.
My players set off in completely the wrong direction relatively early in my current campaign. I dropped numerous hints and eventually flat out told them they were misinterpreting a clue I had given. They confirmed that, yes, they were fully aware of this, but they believed this was how they felt their characters would interpret the information. In this case, it was "what my character would do" but in a way that kept things moving, even if in the wrong direction.
I have a very important question: do you guys talk about what to wear before each video? It's just that your clothes always match and look well together. Not that I pay attention to people's clothes... >.>
Just in time for me to write up a murder mystery one-shot I am planning. I am doing a series of one-shots to introduce my new homebrew setting (heist, murder mystery, hack & slash dungeon, and puzzle tower). Each one-shot will be set in a new city within the setting and then when we start the campaign, the players can choose between any of there one-shot characters or create a new one.
On a side-note I have a fun anecdote with a player who was used to his old DM twisting information too much: they PC casted "Zone of Truth" and asked "Did you kill your sister?" the NPC said "No" and the next question was "Did you pay someone to kill her?" and it's like "Dude, who hurt you that much?"
It's also interesting when you have to investigate without giving yourself away. I was playing a gnoll paladin of justice that was under that constraint, and the fact that she was a gnoll in a town already made her more conspicuious, and I had to hide the fact that I was a paladin because the church of the town was very much like the early Catholic church, and I was not a paladin of that church.
1. Put a clue behind a LOW DC check. 2. Put additional information behind a second LOW DC check. 3. Plan backup sources in case somehow those clues are missed. 4. Disperse these clues across skill checks that affect different ability scores. That way, the fact that nobody in your "all Cleric party" has a great INT doesn't stop them from progressing.
Not specific to mystery settings, but definitely useful, I often have the "encounter" that provides information to the characters sort of free floating. By this, I mean that I've built the encounter but have not determined exactly which NPC it is tied to or exactly where it will take place. I just wait for the opportunity during the session. Maybe it's a chatty deck hand on the ship. Maybe it is gossip overheard in the market square. Maybe it's the result of a torture session. The point is that the players aren't pushed down a particular path to find the information. In a sense, the information will find them. This lets the players have the freedom to explore, while still giving me the ability to keep significant plot moments intact.
I can't wait for 12 months and Mirror Mirror coming up in the Dresden Files. Mirror Mirror I think will be the book that lets us put most of the clues together.
I'm so hype that you plugged Dresden Files, Jim Butcher is my second favorite author (after Pratchett) and I always think DnD players would benefit from reading those books hahaha
Also, if your players end up investigating a random thing/character/building that was not meant to be a clue for like a whole session... give 'em something. Just make up some random stuff on the fly if you need. They usually end up piecing it together for you anyway, even if it was truly random and not related to the plot...
"I cast speak with dead!" "Who killed you?" As funny as this is to imagine, "I don't know, it was too dark, but I know a couple of people who were after me." is a valid answer. Or, you could have the culprit using Dominate Person on others to do his bidding in the night, though, I wouldn't use that as an excuse in the heat of the moment.
I need to take improv classes, even in a straight forward dungeon plot, I have NO idea what my players might do. One of them has been carrying around half of a folding chair which he uses for… many things. Very creative group of people, amazing and smart, and very difficult to prepare for every week!! 😄
good advice for keeping everyone engaged and moving positively toward solving mysteries! nice how you including the ways to avoid frustrating problems - - - - at least for me, i think of mystery-solving as a mental skills part of the exploration pillar of the game, and then this principle helps to guide how to manage
A note on physical clues that come with proficiencies or classes, I'm IRL, a locksmith (who plays a LOT of rogues), and while forensic locksmithing is a VERY specialized field, yes, there are plenty of folks who can take apart a lock and tell you if it's very probably been picked recently from the toolmarks on the pins or levers. It DOES take time, expertise, and some special equipment though. A PC would need at minimum the time and tools necessary to take apart the lock, a VERY good light source, and a good magnifying glass, as well as very high wisdom and skill scores (unless otherwise stated that they have this experience). Most rogues won't have this skill because why would they, but a rogue with a background in lockmaking very well might.
Unrelated to this video but I just watched the Paladin Tier list videos. I am playing a Conquest Paladin now and I would put it at high A tier but I built it with a less than typical paladin style. He is all charisma and dexterity and his weapon of choice is a whip with shield. This lets him consistently do well on initiative before running into combat, pulling up 10 feet short of his enemies, and blasting them with fear. This allows him to really control the battlefield and sit there at short range, slowly burn damaging his enemies with the aura ability while never quite being in melee. What I sacrifice in weapon dice damage I make up for with slow burn and of course smites. More often than not his concentration is being held by some fear effect so spiritual weapon becomes really useful since it is not concentration. Each turn becomes 2 whip attacks with optional smite, one spiritual weapon attack, and passive psychic damage to anything afraid and in my aura.
One of the best things I ever ran involved a rogue investigator nat 20 like ten times to track someone across town, disguise as a trash bag to watch their house, break in, befriend the dog, kidnap the dog, uncover the culprit and run back home without meeting any guards. Then the rest of the party wrapped it up in the morning
When talking about fictional references I'd also recommend the Peter Grant books by Ben Aaronovitch. It's less magical mayhem and more investigation than Dresden Files (being an actual police 'department' than are wizards) but I think they are much better books and we'll worth a read.
There is an excellent murder mystery called "The Primewater Pleasure" on Dms guild for Ghosts of saltmarsh. I would strongly recommend people read it/use it.
as a DM is easy to see "obvious" clue because you know all the clues so you have take in concideration that teh player have only a few clue at the momen that they encounter your obvious clue
This video came out just in time for the mystery I'm putting together. Players will have to search for clues to determine who the real witch is in the town.
this makes me want to just throw random clues across a town and say whatever the players cobble together is actually the right solution. all of the fun, none of the headache.
5:30 If you want to give a clue, you can have each PC roll Investigation and give the clue to whomever rolled highest, no matter how high or low that roll is.
I'd say that it's still possible for players to feel like their choices don't matter, even if it's not explicitly narrating their choices before they have a chance to input anything.
'But Sherlock Holmes didn't have spells.'
That's were Warlock Holmes comes into play.
Sorlock Holmes
You’re forgetting Sherlock Gnomes
Underrated comment tbh
That's it, my next character is going to be Sorlock Gnomes
The greatest dnd mystery is how to work around everyone's schedules to actually pick a time to play
That's why I ended up juggling multiple single-player-full-party games (in the same setting) at once. One player "owned" the party, and if they wanted to have friends sit in and play some of the characters that was fine with me. But the game would go on even without those other people. Now I only have one left, and she already told me when she comes back from her summer vacation, she wants to try a different game, so I get to try to wrap up my campaign in a meaningful way in two and a half months.
We always run a set date first Saturday of the month, or every other Monday and GM+3. As long as we got GM+3 we got an adventure!
Yeesssss
Oof
Ah yes, you're on the true hero's quest now
Step 1 - Be a divination wizard.
Step 2 - Solve mystery.
Step 3 - Open a film noir-esque detective agency.
Step 4 - I knew she was trouble when she walked through my door, because I’m a divination wizard
Plot twist the client is you from the future as a chronurgy wizard.
The only reason this comment has so few likes is that it's too smart for some people. And also the video was uploaded like one hour ago
Of all the arcane laboratories in all of Faerun, she had to walk into mine.
Lol, that's great.
Wizard: You were not as smart as you thought and trust me I know this because I scryed on you the other day.
Me: Sits down to start working on the murder mystery his players are doing in the next session.
Dungeon Dudes: I'm about to be the most well timed video of this man's career.
My next session is a mysterious disappearance that will require and investigation :)
This video comes a little bit too late for me.
That feeling when a new dungeon dudes drops right before you start doing boring house chores.
That's the case here too lol
YESSS. i put Dungeon Dudes or Critical Role on when i’m doing house chores
Here here! DnD = Dishes and Dudes 🤓
Truer words have never been spoken
Me IRL
The three clue rule was also heavily influenced by the classic mystery show “Blues Clues”.
I’ve been needing this. Can’t wait to not accidentally name drop, give too much info, and do literally everything involved in a mystery wrong.
I once ran a vampire the masquerade game where the players got drawn into a conspiracy of vampires who were convinced that one of them was betraying the cabal. The players were chasing down leads only to find their prime suspect the next victim. The twist was I only picked who was the next to die by who the players suspected. Each NPC had enough motives and opportunity and could have been the mole so I didn't need to adjust much. The players loved it! Sadly I could only pull that off once with any player group
For people who are willing to dig up older fiction, Randall Garrett did a number of mystery stories with a detective named Lord D'Arcy set in a Victorian world with magic. Excellent mysteries!
My players were tracking a mysterious duo from early on in their campaign. They went 'off-track' looking for clues out in the woods, which provided the druid with some especially good opportunities to try to speak with animals and plants to find out more about events that had happened through there several months prior. It was a lot of fun helping the players to engage with the 'clues' on their own terms and it's been exciting to see them finally starting to piece together this long-term mystery!
D&D Buddy Cop comedy idea: An Inquisitive Rogue and a Knowledge Domain Cleric are partners. The Rogue ends up always accidentally killing suspects with their sneak attack damage and the Cleric is forced to Revivify them to question them.
I love that!
"How are we going to question him now? He's got an arrow in his skull!"
"Well, take the arrow out"
...
"Wow. Turns out he was the bad guy, and we've unraveled his whole plan. What do we do now?"
"Put the arrow back."
@@ChristnThms - Excellent.
"James, please, be careful. Our investigations became too expensive"
Me, having failed to run a mystery mere weeks ago:
Huh good to know
I like to setup npc motivations and a corresponding timeline of events that will occur without player interaction. I then throw an array of hooks and see which path they take. This allows me to improvise on a foundation.
Sometimes they miss the cool rooftop chase sequence that I had planned but they have fun because they stopped assassins in another way or they failed to stop them and now have to deal with the fallout.
Don’t assume the goals of your party. Roll with what they choose.
It always tricks my eyes a bit when Kelly’s the one wearing the Roots hoodie instead of Monty
Regarding Magic in Mysteries: Depending on who they are, the bad guys also might know that Magic exists and what it could do, and even use it themselves.
I try to have at least 2 seperate clues in any mystery item in different places, such as shipping logs that are both in the captains office and the dock that both lead to the same result, to give my players choice of where to go.
Ive got a vampire npc that everyone suspects is a vampire, but he's also a changeling so the physical investigations of him while the party was talking with him all failed to determine he's a vampire. They then went to his house & I included very obvious hints that he's definitely a vampire, but also pretending to be someone else... well at least I thought it was obvious. Completed the mini campaign and no one figured it out. So, I get to reuse the character at another point I guess lol
This video popped up literally 5 min after I bought The Candlekeep Mysteries on D&D Beyond. How did you guys know? *cue X-Files intro theme*
I'd like to think the guys are smart enough to tailor some of their content with what's trending with WotC ;-)
My favorite element is the element of
surprise!
Okay lets be honest though, Indiana Jones' Notebook was basically a magic item.
It was kinda implied that his hat was too, even though we weren't told what it actually did. And Indy's whip has been the basis of more than one custom weapon I've given NPCs for flavor, such as:
Whip of Prodding: +2 on attack and damage rolls, and once per turn they can add 1d6 lightning damage to a hit and the target must make a CON save at DC 10+(the lightning damage) or be pushed 5 feet into any free space of the whip wielder's choice. Since whips have Reach, this is useful for reaching over the front rank in combat, and moving the enemies around.
@@mal2ksc i would argue that Indy's hat is, additionally, a legendary item, having been potentially handed down from adventurer to adventurer. it always returns to its owner, AND will grant superhuman dexterity to its owner in order to return to its owner (grabbing the hat beneath massive stone traps)
Dresden Files are the freaking best. The new books that came out last year were such a boon to the pandemic blues.
I freaking lost it for Battle Ground... absolutely magnificent
@@euchiron it was definitely the infinity war/end game of books and it was SO GOOD
Thumbs up for The Dresden Files. Best series ever
I'm a very newb DM with less than a handful sessions under my belt, and one of the modules I ran was mystery-based. And just from that one 2.5-hour session, I already experienced "the players will find red herrings on their own," "how to provide the players with necessary clues when their skill checks completely fail them and/or when they just neglect to investigate a clue that's sitting right in front of them," and "keep a poker face when they get it correctly, and then watch as they throw themselves off the correct answer."
It was a super fun experience. :D
How to Be a Great GM recently did an episode about making plants interesting and using plants and part of that episode involved Speak with Plants, so that might be a good video to somewhat expand on this.
The DM really has to narrate alot of these things and give players some lore drops for the clues to make sense.
I literally just thought, "The Dresden Files is a great example of.." and then Monty mentions The Dresden Files. (Get out of my head Monty!!) Such a great series and awesome inspiration. My wife's monk is definitely gonna love the Kenetic rings I homebrewed off of Harry's rings. (I'm only on "Small Favor" /book 10 so no spoilers please!!)
The Alexandrian is a great source for running D&D adventures. I used his tips extensively when I ran Waterdeep: Dragon Heist.
Perfect timing for me. Our 2nd session of me running a mystery campaign was yesterday.
Somewhere between "dead end" and "make the wrong path the right path" is the PCs exploring a completely unplanned-for avenue of investigation that is still legitimate. This is where having a crib sheet of potential NPC names and other characteristics comes in extremely handy.
Finished Storm Front and Fool Moon. Now I've started Grave Peril. Fool Moon got me hooked. My friend recommended the Dresden Files to me. Being able to incorporate it into D&D at some point is just a nice bonus.
The Dresden Files is why I wish I had a mind wipe device I could use to re-read books. I have read the series through multiple times and enjoyed it immensely, but nothing beats that first read!
"Don't use red herrings. The players are their own red herrings." Seth Skorkowsky.
An awesome early medieval mystery resource are the Brother Cadfael novels by Ellis Peters.
Murder was never OK, just that investigative techniques were under developed. A clever party might steer the Shire-Reeve (Sheriff) to the actual guilty party instead of hanging some convenient vagrant.
My god this couldn’t have been better timed. I’m planning a campaign with my friends and wanted to add some mystery elements so this was super helpful!
I find it handy to make the mystery have stages and penalties for not solving the mystery by the end of each stage. For instance, if the party hasn’t figured it out by the end of day three, the purp claims another victim (usually someone they know and have interacted with). This allows you to give consequences but also drop more clues and get them back on the right path if they have gotten off the right trail. At the end they figure it out, but if they had put it together quicker, so in so would still be alive.
I have a mystery idea for ya'll that I'll just explain it here and now (and feel free to use it if you wish to.)
A nobleman is awakened by a servant on board a ship when she unlocked and enters the room, and finds the corpse of a dead bard on the floor with a bloody dagger in the nobleman's hand. The bodyguard of the nobleman wasn't anywhere near the room, but rather was asleep at a table in the dining hall. There were two sailors acting as guards nearby who refused to admit that they fell asleep during their shifts. Outside the room was a strange bit of ash, but seemed unrelated to the case. The nobleman's room has a hidden safe provided for them during the trip that, when found, is already unlocked, but nothing stolen. There is, however, a bloody handprint inside. A couple of places hidden around the room also have a bloody handprint... places where a dagger could've been placed. Searching around the ship, the herbalist on board perscribed the bard a special sleeping medicine to help him rest as he wasn't sleeping very well... though she's strangely absent for most of the case, making people think she had something to do with it.
It's only after that the floorboard under a rug is removed that A) a tiny bloodstain is under the rug, and B) another bloody dagger is found under the floorboard there. However the VIP room the nobleman was in had a somewhat weak anti-magic field in place, preventing magic from being cast in the room, but not stopping spells already in place, or spells being cast from outside the room and brought inside. Turns out the hidden dagger is a Dagger of Wounding... which the bard used on himself and hid there, prestidigitating most of the blood away, though missing the bit under the rug. The truth of the mystery was that the bard wanted revenge against the nobleman, and did the unthinkable: using his own Dagger of Wounding on himself and bleeding out in front of the nobleman as he was sleeping from the "medicine" that he was made to drink, as were the guards and bodyguard. A lot of red herrings were placed all to throw off the fact that it was a suicide made to look like a locked room murder. It's pretty clever what the cantrips Prestidigitation and Mage Hand can do combined with a scroll of Arcane Lock to help prevent anyone from getting in before the medicine wore off.
I like the first paragraph of your mystery, it has a lot of different things that the players can follow. I do have a slight problem with the second half however. For one, why wouldn't he just kill the nobleman instead of killing himself? To me that just doesn't make a lot of logical sense. Two, I feel like the ending takes away from the "Aha!" moment that the players get when they figure it out. While there's some satisfaction at proving the nobleman's innocence, there's no satisfaction at confronting the evildoer and someone getting their just desserts. So personally, I would change who done it to someone who was still alive and could pay for their actions. That's just my opinion anyway, and I will be using this as an inspiration for a ship bound murder mystery.
I just had a thought, if you really wanted to go the 'suicide' route, make it so the bard doesn't actually die. Have the bard steal a herbalism kit from the herbalist to make a potion that when taken, makes the person drop into a close dead state, a feign death potion. His heart rate drops to the point where no pulse is felt, his breathing is slowed so there's no movement, etc, this would also explain why a revivify wouldn't work as he isn't actually dead. After an initial investigation, have the bard's body moved to the lowest deck to preserve the body in a cooler place. The bard wakes up and is hiding on the ship, possibly as another passenger with disguise self. So once they find out it was a suicide, they find that the body of the bard had disappeared and now it's a second mini mystery of finding the bard before the ship makes it to it's location and he gets away. You'll have to tweak earlier parts, but I feel this is a much more satisfying conclusion for the players.
A good mystery always begins by presenting a scenario and sprinkling into it doubt while creating lure to its unraveling
Ooo, the puzzles in candle hold was fun and the DM did great at presenting the mystery. Through it was rather fun ending up one hitting a suit of amour without meaning too when discovering it was a construct without activating it. Plus the one who did it was a level 1 blood hunter. Lol.
So my first muster mystery is actually going to be a False Hydra. If you don’t know, it signs a song and anyone who hears it will never ever notice it when it comes to the surface to feed. Once it attacks it stop singing and people can see it, but once it disappears and starts singing again, people completely forget that it was ever there. But the people it takes are still missing so everyone around that person creates a reason as to why they are gone. So many ways of creating a great mystery lol
My campaign that I am playing right now is an intrigue and mystery campaign. One of my players designed a ranger who specializes in finding missing people by interrogating animals. He does that quite successfully. what he doesn't know is that the crow who gave him many formations is a druid who also happens to be the main antagonist of the campaign.
Right on time! I'm planning on running a mystery arc in my campaign!
I really needed this advice about not hiding clues behind rolls a few months ago. I ran two mystery one shots with two different groups of players using the same culprit for both. Both times the players chose to question the suspect instead of just attacking and didn't roll high enough insight to be sure if he was lying or telling the truth and they let him go. The frustrating part is that to be safe I added a witness to the second mystery. They chose to believe the assassin instead of the person who watched him murder someone.
The multiple clues for one aspect thing is good advice. Pointy Hat says something similar.
Also, the gume-shoe game thing. Yes, that sounds great. The players engage for the basics and skill checks are for extra stuff.
as soon as you said they might use speak with animals i remembered the first ever time outside xtra played dungeons and dragons and immediately solved the first major mystery with that spell
Sweet! I'm getting ready to run one of the adventures from Candlekeep Mysteries. I haven't run a mystery adventure yet, so this video has been very helpful! Thank you for the great videos!
Good timing with Candlekeep coming out, definitely looking to drop a mystery in my campaign coming up
Descent Into Avernus is kind of a mystery module. It is a very sandbox kind story. You discover all the various options & quests to pursue, but you have to choose what your group believes is the most important lead then pursue it. Because you can't map Avernus, the plane keeps throwing random crap @ you & you possibly get sidetracked & detoured from detective work to solve how to save the city.
My players 2 sessions ago decided to randomly venture into the Underdark on a whim to explore a couple of player backstories. Was slightly unexpected for me, but i did already have stuff prepared. Diving deep into all the old edition books for lore now. Heaps of fun!
I had 3 skeletons with the password to get past them written on their foreheads, split into 3 parts. The players didn't get it, all they had to do was read them in order but they made it so much more complicated than I could have imagined.
that's genius! I am going to use this and I will reference you
@@noahloftin7705 I got the skeletons + password from Lost Mines of Phandelver, and made it usable for the inhabitants of the area to not be attacked by having them draw the password on the skulls, but still be dangerous to invaders who didn't speak the password!
@@scruffyscruff that's awesome! I only ever got past the goblin cave in Lost Mines, as it was my first ever game of D&D, and we didn't end up going back to it, so I never experienced the rest of it!
Really appreciate the point about make the "clues" easy to find, then add the checks. Great video!
Thankyou! Busy planning a noir mystery to slot in my current Eberron campaign to break up the action in the adventure for when my group hasn't got our players who only want to fight things. It happens occasionally and the ones who want more story involvement in the world can have some for a session two.
Butcher does some Scooby Doo shenanigans of using a clue you didn't see for Dresden to solve the big mystery. It happens too often but the smaller detective stuff is pretty good and doesn't feel like the big clue is missing to solve it yourself.
I haven't (yet) watched the video, but mysteries are currently fresh on my mind since I bough a Traveller (Mongoose publishing 2ed) module recently ( "Solomani adventure 1 - Mysteries on Arcturus station") :D Lenghty post ahead ;) But I think that the module is such a gem that a detailed explanation is worth it, you have been warned
Sadly I'm not sure how easy it would be to (partially) convert it into a medieval setting, but it still is an *amazing* resource if nothing else to see how to maybe structure an adventure like that.
Why is this one special? I've never seen anything like it in my life. The module is insanely replayable - you get a detailed cast of 10 characters and the murder could be anyone of them. It is "build your own mystery" with different tables and option for every relevant character, with different option both if you choose them as the murderer or if they are innocent (and of course you probably won't be using all of them anyway, but anywhere between 3 and all 10 depending on how "complicated" you want to have the mystery).
You could build thousands of different mysteries with the setup provided - of course the DM has to do all the prep before the game, but I still love it (the module even warns that it is NOT meant to be run directly from the book without extensive prep work)
Each detailed character has detailed their:
- involvement, which is basically public information about them
- background, which is secret info about their background
- motive, usually connected to the background, but not always - every single character has a motive to be the killer.
- Means - two or three different ways they could have done the murder with additional explanation on how them doing it that way would influence the state of the body and the crime scene (the DM chooses this, if they decide they are the murderer)
- An alibi they tell the players if questioned, together with multiple options what they have really been up to, even if they were not the murderer, since they might want to hide something else
- Different options for the alibi: it could be true or they could still have done something they wish to hide even if they didn't commit the murder, often you have multiple options for each alibi what they could have done instead (again the DM freely decides for each individual)
- DCs (to use the D&D term) to get certain information about them (how hard is it to get their background story, how hard is it to punch holes in their alibi if it is false, how hard a confession would be if they are the murderer)
- Modifiers for any interrogation rolls depending on how the players approach the NPC - are they hostile? Friendly? Do they try to bribe them? Any unique modifiers given the personality of the NPC (e.g. the PCs tying to take a valued possession form them for the investigation etc.)
- Furthermore you also have a table to randomize the relationship between the suspects, so even with the exact same setup in terms of who the DM decides to use, the relationships between them could change drastically (suddenly one of the suspect might collude with the murderer etc. or (unknowingly) falsely accuse a different suspect).
- And last but not least a random table to decide the general behaviour of the murderer. Do they want to kill the investigators or are they going to try to blame somebody else actively etc.
And just to re-iterate the module is "Murder of Arcturus station", recently re-published and updated in "Solomani adventure 1 - Mysteries on Arcturus station" (it has just been updated and re-released a week ago, with certain improvements over the old version).
Found the PDF on DriveThroughRPG for 15$ and I think I might get more out of this 15$ than I've ever gotten out of a D&D adventure (even if I just use it as inspiration)...
This is my favorite kind of dungeon dudes content. I love the open ended questions to help generate some creative ideas. Keep it up boys looking forward to the next one. You both help make my planning sessions even more creative and fun.
Perfect timing Dudes! Plotting a mystery right now where the players are hired to solve a murder that may uncover a hidden kabal of lycans within the village.
Funny that they mention the Dresden Files at the end. I was thinking about that series as I watched the video.
I just finished a mystery, and it took my players 10 2-hour sessions to figure it out. This is all very good advice.
I had a murder mystery going on behind another murder mystery. They solved the first one, but completely missed the second, until they just, directly engaged the situation with no regard for mystery at all. I loved it. There was a werewolf killing people in the woods, and someone else doing so in town. The townsfolk blamed the werewolf for both. The town murderer would break into the inn rooms, and kill them in the night, and dump them close to the edge of the woods. The town murderer tried and failed to break into the party's room one night, and when they tried again after the party had called the murders solved, they just opened the door in the night, and attacked the person.
Thank you so much for mentioning the Dresden files series. I had never heard of them. I am enjoying them so much. Thank you
Running around UA-cam trying to get ideas how to go about this very subject. Thanks.
Oh boy, another awesome video full of actually important guidelines.
Nicely done, magnificent stuff.
Keep it up, dudes!
My players set off in completely the wrong direction relatively early in my current campaign. I dropped numerous hints and eventually flat out told them they were misinterpreting a clue I had given. They confirmed that, yes, they were fully aware of this, but they believed this was how they felt their characters would interpret the information. In this case, it was "what my character would do" but in a way that kept things moving, even if in the wrong direction.
I will say you that you covered it fairly well when Jill pulled out Speak with Animals then.
Always looking forward to Thursdays
You guys always get a like but double this time for the Dresden Files recommendation!!
I have a very important question: do you guys talk about what to wear before each video? It's just that your clothes always match and look well together.
Not that I pay attention to people's clothes... >.>
Just in time for me to write up a murder mystery one-shot I am planning. I am doing a series of one-shots to introduce my new homebrew setting (heist, murder mystery, hack & slash dungeon, and puzzle tower). Each one-shot will be set in a new city within the setting and then when we start the campaign, the players can choose between any of there one-shot characters or create a new one.
Dresden Files is MY favorite book series so far!
On a side-note I have a fun anecdote with a player who was used to his old DM twisting information too much: they PC casted "Zone of Truth" and asked "Did you kill your sister?" the NPC said "No" and the next question was "Did you pay someone to kill her?" and it's like "Dude, who hurt you that much?"
Miss the Shadow of Drakenhiem campaign!! Can't wait to have it back 😊
It's also interesting when you have to investigate without giving yourself away. I was playing a gnoll paladin of justice that was under that constraint, and the fact that she was a gnoll in a town already made her more conspicuious, and I had to hide the fact that I was a paladin because the church of the town was very much like the early Catholic church, and I was not a paladin of that church.
I enjoy your work across the board, but this particular video may have been the most insightful yet. Nice work!
That shaking thing over Monty´s head is driving me crazy :D
Whoops! That's the microphone!
1. Put a clue behind a LOW DC check.
2. Put additional information behind a second LOW DC check.
3. Plan backup sources in case somehow those clues are missed.
4. Disperse these clues across skill checks that affect different ability scores. That way, the fact that nobody in your "all Cleric party" has a great INT doesn't stop them from progressing.
Not specific to mystery settings, but definitely useful, I often have the "encounter" that provides information to the characters sort of free floating. By this, I mean that I've built the encounter but have not determined exactly which NPC it is tied to or exactly where it will take place. I just wait for the opportunity during the session. Maybe it's a chatty deck hand on the ship. Maybe it is gossip overheard in the market square. Maybe it's the result of a torture session. The point is that the players aren't pushed down a particular path to find the information. In a sense, the information will find them.
This lets the players have the freedom to explore, while still giving me the ability to keep significant plot moments intact.
I can't wait for 12 months and Mirror Mirror coming up in the Dresden Files. Mirror Mirror I think will be the book that lets us put most of the clues together.
love ur cameo in the lost pirate kingdom
Its like you both are psychic. I have been using your guides for years. Just trying to figure out how to do a mystery. Then you answer!
I'm so hype that you plugged Dresden Files, Jim Butcher is my second favorite author (after Pratchett) and I always think DnD players would benefit from reading those books hahaha
Also, if your players end up investigating a random thing/character/building that was not meant to be a clue for like a whole session... give 'em something. Just make up some random stuff on the fly if you need. They usually end up piecing it together for you anyway, even if it was truly random and not related to the plot...
"I cast speak with dead!"
"Who killed you?"
As funny as this is to imagine, "I don't know, it was too dark, but I know a couple of people who were after me." is a valid answer. Or, you could have the culprit using Dominate Person on others to do his bidding in the night, though, I wouldn't use that as an excuse in the heat of the moment.
Great video, very timely for me as I'm just starting a game of ancient greek maritime insurance investigators
Timestamp 14:45: THIS! The DM is eyes and ears of the players' characters.
I need to take improv classes, even in a straight forward dungeon plot, I have NO idea what my players might do. One of them has been carrying around half of a folding chair which he uses for… many things. Very creative group of people, amazing and smart, and very difficult to prepare for every week!! 😄
good advice for keeping everyone engaged and moving positively toward solving mysteries! nice how you including the ways to avoid frustrating problems - -
- - at least for me, i think of mystery-solving as a mental skills part of the exploration pillar of the game, and then this principle helps to guide how to manage
A note on physical clues that come with proficiencies or classes, I'm IRL, a locksmith (who plays a LOT of rogues), and while forensic locksmithing is a VERY specialized field, yes, there are plenty of folks who can take apart a lock and tell you if it's very probably been picked recently from the toolmarks on the pins or levers. It DOES take time, expertise, and some special equipment though.
A PC would need at minimum the time and tools necessary to take apart the lock, a VERY good light source, and a good magnifying glass, as well as very high wisdom and skill scores (unless otherwise stated that they have this experience). Most rogues won't have this skill because why would they, but a rogue with a background in lockmaking very well might.
Unrelated to this video but I just watched the Paladin Tier list videos. I am playing a Conquest Paladin now and I would put it at high A tier but I built it with a less than typical paladin style. He is all charisma and dexterity and his weapon of choice is a whip with shield. This lets him consistently do well on initiative before running into combat, pulling up 10 feet short of his enemies, and blasting them with fear. This allows him to really control the battlefield and sit there at short range, slowly burn damaging his enemies with the aura ability while never quite being in melee. What I sacrifice in weapon dice damage I make up for with slow burn and of course smites. More often than not his concentration is being held by some fear effect so spiritual weapon becomes really useful since it is not concentration. Each turn becomes 2 whip attacks with optional smite, one spiritual weapon attack, and passive psychic damage to anything afraid and in my aura.
One of the best things I ever ran involved a rogue investigator nat 20 like ten times to track someone across town, disguise as a trash bag to watch their house, break in, befriend the dog, kidnap the dog, uncover the culprit and run back home without meeting any guards. Then the rest of the party wrapped it up in the morning
When talking about fictional references I'd also recommend the Peter Grant books by Ben Aaronovitch. It's less magical mayhem and more investigation than Dresden Files (being an actual police 'department' than are wizards) but I think they are much better books and we'll worth a read.
There is an excellent murder mystery called "The Primewater Pleasure" on Dms guild for Ghosts of saltmarsh. I would strongly recommend people read it/use it.
I hope to have a beard that is as majestic as Monty's one day. Kelly's beard is pretty damn spiffy too.
as a DM is easy to see "obvious" clue because you know all the clues so you have take in concideration that teh player have only a few clue at the momen that they encounter your obvious clue
These guys are great! Man, I’d love to sit a their game table.
Great content, I'm about to do a mystery campaign myself. Eberron, how the Mourning happened.
Can you do an episode on running a treasure hunt!!! I love the channel
I'm really enjoying the variation in content. All useful and no topic is overdone to staleness.
This video came out just in time for the mystery I'm putting together. Players will have to search for clues to determine who the real witch is in the town.
Trying to find a fun balance because my players are a little scared of combat This really helped (their new)
this makes me want to just throw random clues across a town and say whatever the players cobble together is actually the right solution. all of the fun, none of the headache.
I love the Dresden files!
5:30 If you want to give a clue, you can have each PC roll Investigation and give the clue to whomever rolled highest, no matter how high or low that roll is.
Congrats on the Module, Dudes!
I'd say that it's still possible for players to feel like their choices don't matter, even if it's not explicitly narrating their choices before they have a chance to input anything.