If I put on my plasteel foil hat, I'd say that the missing Primarchs aren't dead.. perhaps the 19 believed they are, but I suspect this is a cover orchestrated by the Emperor and the Sigilite. I think they're alive and kept in reserve to be deployed during the events of the end times. A sort of secret, apocalypse fighting ace in the hole for the Imperium.
@@brotheralaric7177 I don't think so, personally. I think Valdor will definitely play a major role in the end times. Especially if you've followed some of the King in Yellow theories.
My theory? The 2nd and 11th Primarchs opposed The Great Crusade. During The Age of Strife, many small empires grew up. Some worlds had managed to retain their technology and culture, and they were thriving when the Emperor arrived. All of them were eventually absorbed or destroyed during the Crusade. I think the 2nd and 11th Primarches were found on two such worlds, and had been raised with much more liberal ideals than the others. They were willing to help fight against hostile xenos, but not against other human cultures, and when their own homeworlds were purged, the two lost primarchs turned on the Emperor. All records of their rebellion were expunged - not because of what they did, but because of WHY. Rebelling because you were corrupted by warp gods is one thing, but rebelling to save blameless humans who were too civilized for the Emperor's liking, . . .
I also thought of this being cannon (At least my head-cannon). Especially for it happening right at Great Crusade period; 'All records of their rebellion were expunged - not because of what they did, but because of WHY. Rebelling because you were corrupted by warp gods is one thing, but rebelling to save blameless humans who were too civilized for the Emperor's liking . . ." This one hit harder. That's the reason i'll be using for now on, thank you very much!
The average Imperial citizen believes that there were only 9 Holy Primarchs. In the book Avenging Son, Guilliman says to some guy in the Administratum that he's upset that the Emperor didn't tell any of the 18 Primarchs his entire plan for the Imperium. The guy kept thinking Guilliman was fuckin with him and kept thinking to himself "there were 9 Holy Primarchs!"
That's an interesting theory, and it makes a great story, but it defies parsimony. My theory is a lot more parsimonious. And that is, an inherent gene-seed flaw caused the 2nd and 11th legions to be less-than-effective combat units. Less effective than the other legions, anyway. This less-than-effectiveness contributed to most of their numbers, including their primarchs, getting wiped out by the Rangdan. The few survivors were culled by the Space Wolves so their memory could be erased from history, as their flaw made them an embarrassment to the Emperor.
@@benjauron5873 The theories are not contradictory. A gene flaw leading the Lost and Forgotten Primarchs to a weakness like... compassion, would not be acceptable to Neoth the Uber-Marxist. Say what you will of Chaos corruption - in its way it bestows pitiless strength.
My theory: The II Legion's primarch was a pacifitic "zen master" of sorts, and had moved beyond the wish to fight or kill. No greater betrayal of the Emperor's purposes could be imagined, and so the latter killed him and his children alike. The XI Legion's primarch was a psychopath whose bloodlust surpassed even Angron's or Konrad Curze's. Having no use for this in itself, the Emperor purged him and many of his children, and had Guilliman take in hand the more tameable examples of the XI Legion.
If you're new to 40K Lore, the out-of-lore reason for missing Primarchs pre-dates the creation of Black Library, and goes all the way back to the 2nd Edition, I believe. GW wanted players to be able to create Chapters from outside of the established Primarch lineages. Most of these theories were born out of the Horus Heresy series.
As we know, it's all propaganda. The truth is in your own legions, lore. My Red Corsairs are the remnants of one lost Primarch. Finding their lost brothers who's minds were wiped l. Their mission is turning them back or help their brother regain their memories. Or some nerd scifi thing like it
Its 2023 and im making the custom second chapter primarch! He was kept hidden by malcador to ensure his safety during the heresy. This was done as a failsafe; a primarch with divine healing powers would most certainly inspire worship in anyone who witnessed him, and in a time where secularism was scarce on Terra and abroad, it was seen as unwise to allow him to operate in the open. Records of his existence were only recently discovered by Roberto on Terra, as the scales now finally tip towards secularism in the Imperium once more.
I believe that Leman Russ did indeed personally kill one of the lost Primarchs judging from some of his dialogues, but its possible that the other one could likely be trapped in the imperial palace, when you consider Dark Cells. Imagine a Lion situation where the 2nd or 11th is an aged Primarch in a Dark Age archeotech style cell within the Dark Cells. A hundred Shadowkeepers standing vigil forever, outside your room.
Great ideas! Or they could be both there under the imperial palace in room ll and room Xl that Malcador stops Dorn from entering, the one Leman 'killed' in a Roboute style stasis, and the other in a stasis to halt a mutation/disease/poison/mind control both to be healed later if a cure is discovered or/and to harvest geneseed for succesor chaptrs
The Emperor considered long, as He often did, before giving an answer. 'In the lime of the Aegypta there was an empress named Hatshepsut. By all accounts of her that survive she was an equitable and proficient ruler, by the standards of her time. She rebuilt her land in the wake of war and occupation, erecting great monuments and bringing prosperity to her people. She reassembled the Aegypta's navy, using it to re-establish their old empire, and launched military campaigns against the nations who had once been their oppressors.' ’A legacy whose parallels are not hard to see,' said the Lion. 'And yet those who came after her did all within their power to ensure that she would have no legacy. Her name was chiselled from every monument, her every deed and triumph stricken from public record. Even her body was removed from its royal tomb.' 'Why, if her reign was so equitable?' 'Because those who succeeded her desired it. Because sometimes what comes before is too troublesome to be paved over in rockcrete, to amend with a monument to compliance or a golden aquila on an Imperial flag. Sometimes it is enough only that it be destroyed, that no trace of it but darkness and ash be left to endure.' ‘And yet history still remembers this empress.' ‘The Emperor Thutmose the Third did not have his Dark Angels.' This quote from "Lion, Lord of the FIrst", implies the Dark Angels had something to do with erasing people from history, their involvement in the Rangdan genocide, reinforces the idea that the Dark Angels possibly had something to do with one of the missing primarchs.
The Soul Drinkers could be such a chapter that originated from one of the lost Legions. They were originally a second founding Imperial Fists Chapter, but was later found out to be not of Imperial Fist stock but of an unknown Legion at that time of the testing.
I have recently finished reading the Soul Drinkers omnibus and really enjoyed it,it was a refreshing change to read about a little known chapter.Would recommend to anyone with an interest to take a look,great lore.
I legitimately know what happened to the lost 2nd and 11th, they are in a box in my attic somewhere, I just can’t remember exactly where. One is called “Legion of the Sprue”, and the other is “The Primed Ones”.
I feel like at least one of theme was a psychic blank. And was immune to the emperors physic powers to such an extent he could actually straight up counter act the emperors psychic might.
It would make sense that at least one of his sons would be a blank due to the Emperors previous children’s are all blanks and he can’t detect them if he wanted to.
I strongly believe that the one Leman killed was the 2nd, because of a single entry from a Custodies mentioning a large primarch sized door with the number 11housed within the vaults that they guard alongside various chaos and xenos artifacts. Apparently there's someone or something that can be heard behind that door
calling custodians custodies sounds so fuckin lame. everything about high gothic fuckin sucks. sounds so damn lame. daemons for one is stupid sounding entirely. its demon. not dae mon
Something you might want to consider is that the order of Primarch discovery follows Dante's Inferno and Paradiso specifically, the circles or spheres corresponding to each primarch's personality/themes/flaws exactly, which was Rick Priestley's intent. The 2 redacted ones probably fit Purgatios "ex-communicate and late-repentant" themes, as indicated by the hints towards their natures and fates respectively over the years.
The first primarch recovered was Horus The second Russ Dante inferno structure is The “selva oscura” or dark forest Not really part of inferno itself rather a metaphor for human life Then there is the “anti inferno” or what precede inferno The place where are punished the “ignavi” the people and angels who didn’t chose a side during Lucifer rebellion and didn’t help Satan or god This segment is after the door of hell but before river acheronte and is strictly speaking outside of the normal hell structure of circles. Then there is the acheronte river Then the first real circle of hell for the people who were not baptized It is a bell circle but inside of it there is no suffering There are the souls of great pagans or children in this circle Then the first real hell circle with suffering the one of “lussuriosi” or people who succumb to the sin of lust Where exactly Horus and Russ fit in this supposed reference to Dante inferno? The second one
What happened was the 20th primarch, the OG Alpharius was found during the rag war working for the rags. As such he was killed and had to be replaced as the 20th is the secret police. No one primarch was up to the task so the primarchs of the 2nd and 11th would jointly control the legion and become Alpharius and Omegon. Since the secret police need to be secret everyone got mind wiped and hence the need to destroy all evidence of their existance.
Malcador did say Alphararius needed to Think, Observe, and act. Be the blade of the emperor and cull the enemies inside the imperium that would go against the emperor's own designs. The alpha legion was originally a small strike force that focused in espionage, stealth, camouflage, and assassinations.
I think carcharodons are a remnant of the 2nd legion with some raven guard and night lords elements that either joined them in their exile or were their minders. The fact that their patrols regularly take them through areas of the galaxy where the Rangdan Xenocides occurred leads me to believe that whatever befell their gene father involved the Rangdan.
I sould kinda like the idea that one of them was no warrior. He showed compassion but lacked the necessary cruelty and heartlessness you need in war. Either he refused to fight entirely (hence he was called a hypocrite) or was, as the Emperor regards his sons as tools, not a tool for warfare but for reconstruction and governance. So a tool for peace times. And so the Godemperor kept him locked away and hidden so he cannot be corrupted by Chaos. And when the bloodshed is over and the galaxy lies in ruins it's his turn to shine.
I like to think that the purged fell to chaos, whilst the forgotten found out about it. Then the two fought to the death, or maybe one was left but the emperor used the dark angels or space wolves to clear up the mess and make the situation disappear to hide the existence of chaos, possibly imprisoning the survivor. And the situation fits in with the fact that the two legions were made by GW to be blank slate legions filled in with the players imagination.
I go with 3 possible answers 1. Wanting to create something similar to the Greater Good, where humanity took in Xenos as client states/allies. 2. Going full transhumanist and basically wanting to turn humanity into something like Necrons. 3. One of them was secretly trying to bring back the pre-Emperor religion, to try and birth/restore humanity's previous god as a warp entity protector.
I'd say the third option is possible. I think this because even the chaos legions dare speak of the lost legions. If the news got out about old Terra religions (which they sound WAY better than anything else out their). It could destabilize EVERTHING.
In my headcanon, one Primarch fell to Chaos and the other one allied himself with Xenos (Eldar?) to fight and kill his falllen brother and proposing some sort of collaboration or peaceful coexistence with the aliens. The emperor would not have it, eradicated the mislead Primarch and his alien Contraband, covering everything up as the "Rangdan Xenocide", then erased all knowledge of chaos and cooperating with Xenos "to preserve the ideals of the great crusade" (=atheism and extreme xenophobia).
I’m hoping for this 🙏🏻🙏🏻 In the darkest depths of the Imperium, hidden from the prying eyes of friend and foe alike, the second and eleventh legions bided their time. For millennia, they had patiently awaited the call, their purpose veiled in secrecy. Now, as the Tyranid threat loomed over Terra, the time for their return had finally come. Across the galaxy, the tendrils of the Tyranid Hive Fleet encircled the bastions of humanity. Desperation and despair suffused the air as the defenders of the Imperium fought tooth and nail to hold back the unrelenting swarm. But hope flickered in the shadows, for the Emperor's hidden warriors prepared to reveal themselves. In the heart of Terra, the High Lords of the Imperium convened a clandestine meeting. Within the chamber, secrets were shared, oaths were renewed, and the existence of the second and eleventh legions was unveiled to a select few. Their task was to turn the tide, to safeguard the cradle of humanity from this devouring menace. With the order given, the hidden legions emerged from the shadows. The second legion, clad in midnight-blue power armor, bore the emblem of a blazing white phoenix. The eleventh legion, their armor shimmering with iridescent hues, displayed a sigil of a coiled serpent. Together, they advanced, a force of myth and legend. As they stepped onto the war-torn soil of Terra, a ripple of astonishment swept through the defenders. Their arrival inspired awe and rejuvenated the weary souls who had fought tirelessly. The second and eleventh legions took their positions, their tactical brilliance immediately apparent. Utilizing ancient strategies and employing devastating weaponry, the legions struck with precision and coordination. The Tyranid horde, caught off guard by the sudden appearance of these enigmatic warriors, faltered. The defenders of Terra rallied behind their saviors, their morale reignited. The battle raged on, the skies ablaze with the fury of the clash. The second legion, with their phoenix emblem, unleashed cleansing flames upon the Tyranids, reducing their ranks to ash. The eleventh legion, their serpent insignia glinting with deadly resolve, struck with venomous precision, severing the synaptic links between the hive mind and its bioforms. As the dust settled and the remnants of the Tyranids scattered in retreat, the defenders of Terra stood in awe of the second and eleventh legions. Their mission was accomplished, their duty fulfilled. With solemn nods and silent acknowledgments, the hidden legions vanished once again, retreating to the shadows from whence they came. In the aftermath, tales of the second and eleventh legions' return spread throughout the Imperium. They became legends, whispered by those who had witnessed their valor. Their actions served as a testament to the indomitable spirit of humanity and the hidden strength that could emerge in its darkest hour. And so, the second and eleventh legions returned to their hidden sanctuaries, awaiting the next time the Imperium would need them. Their loyalty and sacrifice would forever be etched in the annals of history, reminding the Imperium that even in the face of overwhelming darkness, hope could be found in the most unexpected of places.
Dude, you made a whole short story that could easily be used in an actually canon setting, you must now journey on a pilgrimage to the department that makes warhammer 40k and submit your idea if possible for you may serve the God emperor proudly
Reuben . versus? It's comment made as his watching the video brains for ςh.. did you see any argument or talking ςh or something and what he says is correct but that beyond the point tοxιc ςh like you is what ruin this community. Can't be just nice or don't even respond even better?
@@NancyDLaw for some reason i cant see the first comment you made now but i did read it. you re correct i did let the original comment few sec before the NB mention the same thing . dont waste your time with coment like that you cant win a argument with rτrd ppl. it would take less then 2 working brain cells to figure the situation as you also did ..ykwm ??😅
Of note, it is mentioned by some Custodes in the Wolftime that the Eleventh fought the Wolves, BUT that they were unknowingly manipulated into betrayal, but were loyal otherwise. I personally think the Eleventh was puppeteered by Rangdan and died in a mutual kill with the Second. The Legions were mindwiped and spared
i like to imagine that one of the two was loyalist, and the other was traitor, which would make it a perfectly even split. and it could be that one wiped out the other so this was hidden with both being wiped from history
I like to think one of the lost primarchs saw theough the emperor the moment they met. He was just like "no thank you, i have no interest in joining your cult" and the emperor couldnt have that so he got deleted.
Dorn told Sigisumun isn't his son, what if he was of the 2nd or 11th legion... imperial fist and ultramarine are said to of had a huge influx of marines before the heresy.. makes you wonder about the soul drinkers as well.
For me, at least one of the lost primarchs had to had died and the imperium had to cover up there death to keep the image of the space marines being invisible, got to keep an image.
They were supposed to represent the warriors of the Pacific islands. Those type of rainbow warriors (see University of Hawaii) Not the current year kind
You know how corax has a warp form now. How hes basically a crow monster that's waiting outside logar's house with a baseball bat? What if one of the lost primarch awakened their warp form waaay too early. It would explain why some of the primarchs would volunteer to have their minds wiped.
With Guiliman and the Lion we now got two characters back who know of the lost Legions and their Primarchs fates. Maybe we ll get to know something about that trough them. However, this is unlikely as they got much more important stuff to do than talking about that.
The primarchs all had aspects of the emperor's character. You just need to consider what aspects of the emperor's nature that wouldn't be usefull in the great crusade and you've solved the riddle behind the 2 lost primarchs
@aayushchhajer1208 after the nails he became the emperors rage...his ability before was to absorb pain and negative emotions of others. I seem to agree I think the 2nd or 11th was the true primarch to embody the emperors rage so he had to "remove him"
I have a close theory to that. They are clones of #2 and #11, but after Horus accidentally killed Alpharius before realizing he was a primarch, and Big E had to use them as the 20th.
I also believe that the deletion of #2 and #11 exp”wins why the Custodes didn’t save Angron. What if after losing two of his sons, he faced the prospect of losing another one and he panicked?
what if they are deleted from records not because they are failures but represent the emperor failure, who know maybe at least one die before the Emperor find him, maybe they are finded but refuse to join and run away, this will represent that the Emepro fail to find his suns in time, that he failed
My personal theory as to what happened to the legions afterwards is that the marines who could be mind wiped were brought into the Ultramarines as it talks of their legion size increasing exponentially after this. The others who couldn’t which most likely would’ve been psykers were some of the first Grey Knights. At least that’s what I’d like to believe.
Isn't it possible that after they got purged, they we're somehow revived by the warp resulting in their deformation, this diformation or curse or whatever you wanna call it being eternal flame resulting in the two Primarch's being primarch's of one single legion known as "Legion of The Damned"? After all it is called "Of The Damned". Just an theory tho i don't know if it's true but it would be crazy
I think the purged was the first true betrayal of big e and was systematically killed. The forgotten could be something as simple as the emperor sending him into dark space for a secret mission of some sort and wiped away any records of them, hence the forgotten.
Okay so likely cool theories for GW to eventually release would be: immideately opposing the emperor, emergency war reserve, forgiveness in the form of being forgotten, or my personal theory is that its likely one of them will include a very soft retcon to happen; one of them is the angel of destruction, prototype primarch during the unification wars it got so uncontrollably powerful and turned against humanity as a whole that they have to TRAP it instead of battling it head on, when they actually think of other ways but cool fantasy warrior sword fight, you know its way out of hand.
*fully explained* I think not! Anyway, you missed the link between the Primarch lore and Dante's trilogy, with the missing 2 Primarchs being from "Purgatio".
Someone else suggested (can’t remember who) that the two missing legions are so that the players on either side can invent their own. That’s a possibility. The rainbow legion was in rogue trader and a few indexes. Thus they could be one of the legions. Or, it could be that Omegon had his own legion ?
What if… one of them was infected by a genestealer? An entire legion carrying the curse of the four-armed emperor might have turned effectively all at once.
@@rustys.1070 far as we know. There was that one titan that they found with tyranid claw marks and acid burns dating back to the great crusades. They sure seem to get around.
the 11th legion Hammer Warriors faced censure for being "too on the nose" and the chapter was finally erased when the librarian was seen manipulating a cloud of several thousand power hammers to do war. my serious grimdark headcanon for the banished legion is that the 2nd legion was a failed experiment involving pariah marines, only the primarch was successful. but since he was the perfect pariah, his childhood was like Curze's times 4. when the emperor found him he was alone on a destroyed world, a bloodstained crown upon his head. The null aura of this primarch was so powerful that the emperor appeared as a normal man to him, and upon seeing one he missed, the primarch attacked on sight. as they battle the primarch begins to overpower the emperor, at this point Malcador steps in and utters a whole sentence in annuncio, causing the primarch"s soul to suddenly invert and become non blank. seeing the opportunity, the emperor powers back up and horus blasts the 2nd primarch out of canon.
My theory was that weapon that erases you from time was used and I feel a ying yang vibe from the missing two… my theory maybe one of them tried to team up with the tyranids and the other with the Necrons?
All this info on the lost legion, and the writer in me wants to make something. So here we go Mantiken was to be the 11th primarch of the Emperor, and he was to be the strategist. A cunning intellect and an adaptable mind would be a boon for the future of the Imperium. Unfortunately, when the Warp pulled the primarch capsules and scattered them, Mantiken's was closest to the gate and took the brunt of the corrupting warp. Mantiken landed on a desolate world called Sthenos. A world consistently in conflict and limited on resources. He grew up learning that his body was his best weapon as stone and metal degraded and would eventually fail him. He became a war leader on Sthenos and lead his forces to many victories. In time he attacked an alien adversary he had never seen before. These were monsters with bio-organic weapons, many of which out competed the paltry weapons he had at his disposal. In victory he found an opportunity. The Warp had changed him, and his body was his best weapon. It was time to use them, he had an adaptable mind, and thanks to the Warp, an adaptable body. He began inducing mutations in his own body, often mimicking the xenos that nearly bested his forces. The Emperor was, less then pleased to see his prized strategist intentionally becoming a mutant, but he was the Emperor and Mantiken was a Primarch. The mutations were never labeled as such. They were 'additional biological enhancements' that Mantiken's body could handle. For a time, this was enough. Mantiken took charge of the 11th Astartes and lead them to many victories for the Emperor. Due to the instability of Mantiken's Gene-seed, the 11th Legion never had the numbers of many of the other legions. Behind closed doors though, Mantiken and the Emperor of Mankind argued a good deal, especially on the topic of humans and what constitutes as a mutant. This rift grew when it was brought to the Emperor's attention that members of Mantiken's Astartes were encouraged to develop and grow their own mutations as rank and badges of honor. They were starting to need the Adeptus Mechanicus less and less. In many people's eyes, they were becoming uncontrollable. A new world was discovered, but the Imperium decided that the inhabitants were mutants and not welcome amongst the Empire of Man. As a test of loyalty, and slight discipline, The Emperor sent Mantiken and the 11th to assist in the purging of the world to make it ready for true humans to colonize. After all, who would defy the Emperor? The 11th Astartes under command from their Primarch killed the Imperium forces there and protected the natives. This slight, would not go unanswered Mantiken believed that having a large portion of his Astartes there would deter reckless retaliation. He wanted to believe that he could convince the Emperor that it was wrong to purge them, that they were more useful to the Imperium alive then as target practice. However, the man who was sent to deal with Mantiken did not believe so. An Exterminatus can be called on a planet where the cost of claiming it is higher than the resources there, and battling an entire legion of Astartes? Well, they encouraged mutants, defied the Emperor and 'unjustly' killed many brave men of the Imperium. They were traitors. The planet was reduced to asteroids by intense bombardment. When this agent returned to tell The Emperor the wonderful news that the world was taken care of and the diabolical warp infused traitor was dealt with before he could corrupt any more.... he did not receive the reward he was expecting. The remaining 11th Legion Astartes were called to Holy Terra, where they had their minds wiped and discretely transferred to other Legions with their gene-seeds labeled as 'corrupted' so they would never be used again. To cover up that the Primarchs could be killed, the failings of the agent, and the treason of Mantiken, The Emperor declared all information on the 11th Legion to be redacted and erased from history. Few of the Primarchs remember their brother Mantiken. He was strong, he was able and despite having extremely different views then his brethren, was a Primarch and a good friend to many of his brothers, now lost and purged form history. Thoughts?
Wasn't stated actually out of lore years and years ago in the early years of the 40K creation that legions II and XI were left intentionally blank/scrubbed from history so that players could be free to create their own legions/chapters and not be chained to 20 pre made ones? This way you could get some interesting, diverse and well thought out chapters.
I personally like to think that x is omegon as it is very much withing the alpha legions desires to keep the idea that there are the twin primarchs a secret hens alpharius being the only primarch that they actually talk about
trying to recall my oldmemories. Russ was the "bully" of the emperor. He send the wolfs when want to make public humillationandkeeptheirprimarcsalive. The secretexecutionerof the Emperor was the Lion. Hesend the first legion when want the primarks dead. in fact the lion , in the heresy was the one who tried to execute the "night stalker". The Lion in the one who killed the primarks and keep it quiet as most other secrets for the Emperor. Also the lost leguions where called "the lost and the damned" ans knicknames.
Since the primarchs "mother" separated them from their father to protect them according to some other videos I have seen. Would it make sense if they abandoned the Emperor to join their mother? That would open up a lot of stories.
A theory me and my friends elaborated was that one of the lost was an failed atempt to make a Female Primarch, when she was lost along with all of the other primarch, the Big E. realised that he could not use her gene-seed to make an female army of space marines for her to command, that failure must have been kept a total secret as "The Empreror has not or commists no failures". Once she was found and and told by Big E. what she was and what was meant to be, she got severely depressed, becase she was the only ever failure of Big E. but he still had plans for her as a "hand in the shadows", at gathering intel as and absurdly powerful spy and diplomat. When the Horus Heresy happened she was far away on a mission and only managed to get back to Terra when Big E. was already on the Golden Throne, again depressed that she was away when Big E needed him the most and seeing him rooting alive, while the whole religion around Big E. started to build up, she took her chance to influence the church into building an army that she made her own image, the Adeptas Sororitas, all of the especializations they have, comes from her trainning, skills and teachings she finally managed to build an army she was meant to have but her gene-seed did not, all while still being hidden like Big E wanter her to remain. And that's how the Sororitas are this absurdly powerhouse they are, basically an female army come true by an 40k wahammer version of WonderWoman.
An inherent gene-seed flaw caused the 2nd and 11th legions to be less-than-effective combat units. Less effective than the other legions, anyway. This less-than-effectiveness contributed to most of their numbers, including their primarchs, getting wiped out by the Rangdan. The few survivors were culled by the Space Wolves so their memory could be erased from history, as their flaw made them an embarrassment to the Emperor. The hypothesis about the survivors joining the Ultramarines is dubious at best. Legions come from different planets and have wildly different cultures. Legionnaires from one planet assimilating into a legion from another, while not impossible, is not a thing that would go unnoticed, thus invalidating the whole "erase them from history" thing.
I like to think one of the Lost Primarchs was unpersoned because he was sent to an alien world instead of a human one and grew up to care more for his surrogate species then the Imperium of Man and abandoned the Emperor right before the Horus Heresey happened. So there's this successful pocket empire in a forgotten corner of the galaxy lead by a Primarch and his alien wards.
in my headcannon one was born on a pacifist world and did not want to be a general in the crusade and the emperor fearing his sons striving beyond his immediate need decided to snip the alternative in the bud.
In most mythologies there always have an event so big that it nearly wipe out entire human race like Raknarok, Kali Yuga, the fallen sun or the flood, etc. The humans that survive these events, Noah, Modi and Magni etc, will lead humanity to a new age So i guess that will be the roll of at least one of the 2 lost Primarchs, when the final battle of 40k end, the Emperor, the Priamarch, Chaos, Xenos propably will all be dead. And the lost Primarchs will appear to protect and guide what left of humanity to a new age
I Believe one was a Primarch Ratling, towering, godlike at almost 6 feet tall! The other a Primarch Jokero constructed a trasdimsional wristwatch from its own fur in under a second disappearing to a pocket dimension inside the Emperors left ear, where it continued the big E’s Webway project.
It answer is in the names. The "lost." And the "purged." One of them died. Probably to Rangdan, the other probably saw to much and turned against the imperium.
The average Imperial citizen doesn't know that there were 18-21 Primarchs. They learn from the Ecclesiarchy that the Emperor only had 9 sons. Mainly, it's only the Astartes, the Inquisition, and the High Lords of Terra who know the truth.
We always think " Chaos " when we read " Traitor ". But how about this theory : One of the lost Primarch ( pick the one you want ) was send to the universe with the others, but never hit the ground of a planet. But he hit something... A ship. Big, old, forgotten by the rest of the galaxy. A relic of the Dark Age of Technology. Imagine a fleet, dozens, maybe hundreds of ships, coming from the golden age of Humanity. People who seek refuge into the void when the first human empire collapse, just like the aeldari do. With time they formed a nomad nation, half merchants half pirates, always moving into the galaxy. They have very good tech, they understand it, they trade with humans and aliens without distinction. Business is business after all. They have a strong culture of freedom and independance, they never stay in a place for long. They don't have navigators, they hide navigation beacons into the void or on the planet they visit for transactions. Their jumps are shorts, but precise and sure. The kid is adopted by the crew of the ship he hit ( maybe the captain family ) and become part of this people. When the emperor found him and these people, they see the great crusade and the imperium as a threat. The absolute authority of this unique leader, the mandatored " Imperial Compliance " means the end of their culture and their people. Problem : They are pirates sometimes, they can defend themselves, but the imperium is a war machine. Fighting is not an option. So the Primarch send a very clear message : " You are my maker, not my father. These people are my people. We won't submit. Farewell. " And they disapear into the void. Using road known by them only, they disband into smaller fleets, reuniting every two or three centuries in secret places. This is a big slap in the emperor face, and in terms of public relationships, it is a disaster. So they just make it disapear. ( And to be honest, the idea of a Primarch involved in piracy/smuggling/trading with aliens makes me laugh )
And what if the emperor and the cigilite erased their records but not them because some were sent on a special agenda into the warp??? Something like locating a special place within the warp were the emperor can focus his energy to achieve his real goal that might have been the creation of a new GOD like entity within the warp that will channel the hope of all humanity and face the chaos pantheon directly in their realm... Then the golden throne was just a catalyser build for this secret purpose😏😏😏😏
At the beginning of the Heresy they sided with Horus (Codex Uktramarines, 2nd ed.). I like to think that they were in the Webway for all the time, pushing the Emperor's secret project. Funny how the Webway portal came under attack by Horus allies, no? Also, lore tells that most of Horus allies realised their mistakes after his death, and turned on the Chaos worshippers, self exiling themselves knowing there was no redemption nor pardon for them in the Imperium.
Well it's likely they blocked the memory of the two primarchs because whatever situation that would've caused that was handled/ taken care of. The traitor primarchs were an active issue, wouldn't do much good to wipe people's memory of that until they were all taken care of.
What a messy lore over a not so good idea (To have two free spots for the fans to make their own legions 😂). In the Rogue Trade era books I kinda remember that the erasure of the "chapters" was placed or sugested arround the Age of Apostasy and in general I think it made more sense. It was another Empire after all, with the Emperor in the Golden Throne and the Inquisition in place burning books. But with the Horus Heresy novels came all this convoluted mistery 😅
There is not one but two questions you need to ask yourself: First one is which was asked in this video: what the hell would the emperor find so obnoxious and unforgivable that he would annihilate two primarchs? I mean the fact the Conrad and Angron exist pretty much tells you how much tolerance Big E has on that part. But the second and most important question which wasn't asked in this Video is: Why would the emperor want to hide all knowledge of it? if the point is discipline then he'd WANT the entire galaxy to know what happens, make an example of those two Primarchs, but he didn't and that would only be for one reason and one reason only; the one and only thing the Emperor would have gotten to all this length to cover it up: Chaos. Those two primarchs must have come in contact with Chaos, and probably embraced it in a way that they probably tried to augment their marines with Chaos shit which corrupted their Gene Seed beyond hope. And that would be the only reason why the Emperor would have wanted the Primarchs gone, their legions gone, every piece and knowledge about them: Gone, as we all know, the Emperor did not have faith in anyone in the Imperium knowing about Chaos.
If I put on my plasteel foil hat, I'd say that the missing Primarchs aren't dead.. perhaps the 19 believed they are, but I suspect this is a cover orchestrated by the Emperor and the Sigilite. I think they're alive and kept in reserve to be deployed during the events of the end times. A sort of secret, apocalypse fighting ace in the hole for the Imperium.
I kinda agree with you there ,I think when emperor will rise he will be back with those two primarchs
So say, Valdor was one of this two primarch
@@brotheralaric7177 I don't think so, personally. I think Valdor will definitely play a major role in the end times. Especially if you've followed some of the King in Yellow theories.
Put in stasis, and locked away in the Black Cells.
The End Times? When Chaos is finally defeated?
My theory?
The 2nd and 11th Primarchs opposed The Great Crusade.
During The Age of Strife, many small empires grew up. Some worlds had managed to retain their technology and culture, and they were thriving when the Emperor arrived. All of them were eventually absorbed or destroyed during the Crusade.
I think the 2nd and 11th Primarches were found on two such worlds, and had been raised with much more liberal ideals than the others. They were willing to help fight against hostile xenos, but not against other human cultures, and when their own homeworlds were purged, the two lost primarchs turned on the Emperor. All records of their rebellion were expunged - not because of what they did, but because of WHY. Rebelling because you were corrupted by warp gods is one thing, but rebelling to save blameless humans who were too civilized for the Emperor's liking, . . .
I also thought of this being cannon (At least my head-cannon).
Especially for it happening right at Great Crusade period;
'All records of their rebellion were expunged - not because of what they did, but because of WHY. Rebelling because you were corrupted by warp gods is one thing, but rebelling to save blameless humans who were too civilized for the Emperor's liking . . ."
This one hit harder. That's the reason i'll be using for now on, thank you very much!
The average Imperial citizen believes that there were only 9 Holy Primarchs. In the book Avenging Son, Guilliman says to some guy in the Administratum that he's upset that the Emperor didn't tell any of the 18 Primarchs his entire plan for the Imperium. The guy kept thinking Guilliman was fuckin with him and kept thinking to himself "there were 9 Holy Primarchs!"
That's an interesting theory, and it makes a great story, but it defies parsimony. My theory is a lot more parsimonious. And that is, an inherent gene-seed flaw caused the 2nd and 11th legions to be less-than-effective combat units. Less effective than the other legions, anyway. This less-than-effectiveness contributed to most of their numbers, including their primarchs, getting wiped out by the Rangdan. The few survivors were culled by the Space Wolves so their memory could be erased from history, as their flaw made them an embarrassment to the Emperor.
@@benjauron5873 The theories are not contradictory. A gene flaw leading the Lost and Forgotten Primarchs to a weakness like... compassion, would not be acceptable to Neoth the Uber-Marxist. Say what you will of Chaos corruption - in its way it bestows pitiless strength.
I thought one or maybe even both legions could have sided with xeno factions!
The two missing primarch/legion are called "the botched paint job" and "the unpainted"
🤣
The unpainted are a legion of blanks.
Nekkid Grey Warriors
@0ss2 the irony? That may be true, given what blanks are in universe.
Would explain why they needed to be destroyed, perfectly.
More like "The Poorly Kit Bashed" and "The Pile of Shame".
My theory: The II Legion's primarch was a pacifitic "zen master" of sorts, and had moved beyond the wish to fight or kill. No greater betrayal of the Emperor's purposes could be imagined, and so the latter killed him and his children alike. The XI Legion's primarch was a psychopath whose bloodlust surpassed even Angron's or Konrad Curze's. Having no use for this in itself, the Emperor purged him and many of his children, and had Guilliman take in hand the more tameable examples of the XI Legion.
If you're new to 40K Lore, the out-of-lore reason for missing Primarchs pre-dates the creation of Black Library, and goes all the way back to the 2nd Edition, I believe. GW wanted players to be able to create Chapters from outside of the established Primarch lineages. Most of these theories were born out of the Horus Heresy series.
As we know, it's all propaganda. The truth is in your own legions, lore. My Red Corsairs are the remnants of one lost Primarch. Finding their lost brothers who's minds were wiped l. Their mission is turning them back or help their brother regain their memories. Or some nerd scifi thing like it
Its 2023 and im making the custom second chapter primarch! He was kept hidden by malcador to ensure his safety during the heresy. This was done as a failsafe; a primarch with divine healing powers would most certainly inspire worship in anyone who witnessed him, and in a time where secularism was scarce on Terra and abroad, it was seen as unwise to allow him to operate in the open. Records of his existence were only recently discovered by Roberto on Terra, as the scales now finally tip towards secularism in the Imperium once more.
horus and his heresey was lame as fuck. youd think super powered humans would be more fuckin stable mentally.
So they left 2 legions open for Fan Fiction creations?
That's actually AMAZING 😂
GW did not do that for people to create their own chapters.
I believe that Leman Russ did indeed personally kill one of the lost Primarchs judging from some of his dialogues, but its possible that the other one could likely be trapped in the imperial palace, when you consider Dark Cells. Imagine a Lion situation where the 2nd or 11th is an aged Primarch in a Dark Age archeotech style cell within the Dark Cells. A hundred Shadowkeepers standing vigil forever, outside your room.
Great ideas! Or they could be both there under the imperial palace in room ll and room Xl that Malcador stops Dorn from entering, the one Leman 'killed' in a Roboute style stasis, and the other in a stasis to halt a mutation/disease/poison/mind control both to be healed later if a cure is discovered or/and to harvest geneseed for succesor chaptrs
The Custodes codex of 9th Ed. mentions their vaults holding a “Subject XI”
The Emperor considered long, as He often did, before giving an answer.
'In the lime of the Aegypta there was an empress named Hatshepsut. By all accounts of her that survive she was an equitable and proficient ruler, by the standards of her time. She rebuilt her land in the wake of war and occupation, erecting great monuments and bringing prosperity to her people. She reassembled the Aegypta's navy, using it to re-establish their old empire, and launched military campaigns against the nations who had once been their oppressors.'
’A legacy whose parallels are not hard to see,' said the Lion.
'And yet those who came after her did all within their power to ensure that she would have no legacy. Her name was chiselled from every monument, her every deed and triumph stricken from public record. Even her body was removed from its royal tomb.'
'Why, if her reign was so equitable?'
'Because those who succeeded her desired it. Because sometimes what comes before is too troublesome to be paved over in rockcrete, to amend with a monument to compliance or a golden aquila on an Imperial flag. Sometimes it is enough only that it be destroyed, that no trace of it but darkness and ash be left to endure.'
‘And yet history still remembers this empress.'
‘The Emperor Thutmose the Third did not have his Dark Angels.'
This quote from "Lion, Lord of the FIrst", implies the Dark Angels had something to do with erasing people from history, their involvement in the Rangdan genocide, reinforces the idea that the Dark Angels possibly had something to do with one of the missing primarchs.
They were there when the thunder warriors were betrayed
I agree with the comment of the guy above. The First Legion was who wiped out the Thunder Warriors.
The Soul Drinkers could be such a chapter that originated from one of the lost Legions. They were originally a second founding Imperial Fists Chapter, but was later found out to be not of Imperial Fist stock but of an unknown Legion at that time of the testing.
I have recently finished reading the Soul Drinkers omnibus and really enjoyed it,it was a refreshing change to read about a little known chapter.Would recommend to anyone with an interest to take a look,great lore.
It seems like the soul drinkers are being set up for a cool story hopefully they’re not forgotten about
@@wulfgardtt6483read that many years ago. That was an amazing book with a lot of depth to the characters for a battle novel.
@@Lightspeedloser_they are long forgotten. Those books are 20 years old, bro! 😂
Head canon: Tyberos The Red Wake is the Primarch of the second legion.
Asterion Moloc would be Primarch of the 11th then.
The carchardon? Isnt he just a space marine
I legitimately know what happened to the lost 2nd and 11th, they are in a box in my attic somewhere, I just can’t remember exactly where. One is called “Legion of the Sprue”, and the other is “The Primed Ones”.
Either you're joking, or you have the Holy grail of warhammer 40k lore fragments to ever exist
If not a joke, please go dig it up and enlighten us
@@thehippie3610 its a joke, read the names more carefully
@@calebsutton6798it’s a joke. They are also known as The Unpainted
I feel like at least one of theme was a psychic blank. And was immune to the emperors physic powers to such an extent he could actually straight up counter act the emperors psychic might.
Stop that makes too much sense
There is a fanfic with that exact setting
@@YavuzBelwhat’s it called?
It would make sense that at least one of his sons would be a blank due to the Emperors previous children’s are all blanks and he can’t detect them if he wanted to.
I strongly believe that the one Leman killed was the 2nd, because of a single entry from a Custodies mentioning a large primarch sized door with the number 11housed within the vaults that they guard alongside various chaos and xenos artifacts. Apparently there's someone or something that can be heard behind that door
calling custodians custodies sounds so fuckin lame. everything about high gothic fuckin sucks. sounds so damn lame. daemons for one is stupid sounding entirely. its demon. not dae mon
The 2 legions are gone because leman Russ didn't know roman number
Something you might want to consider is that the order of Primarch discovery follows Dante's Inferno and Paradiso specifically, the circles or spheres corresponding to each primarch's personality/themes/flaws exactly, which was Rick Priestley's intent. The 2 redacted ones probably fit Purgatios "ex-communicate and late-repentant" themes, as indicated by the hints towards their natures and fates respectively over the years.
The first primarch recovered was Horus
The second Russ
Dante inferno structure is
The “selva oscura” or dark forest
Not really part of inferno itself rather a metaphor for human life
Then there is the “anti inferno” or what precede inferno
The place where are punished the “ignavi” the people and angels who didn’t chose a side during Lucifer rebellion and didn’t help Satan or god
This segment is after the door of hell but before river acheronte and is strictly speaking outside of the normal hell structure of circles.
Then there is the acheronte river
Then the first real circle of hell for the people who were not baptized
It is a bell circle but inside of it there is no suffering
There are the souls of great pagans or children in this circle
Then the first real hell circle with suffering the one of “lussuriosi” or people who succumb to the sin of lust
Where exactly Horus and Russ fit in this supposed reference to Dante inferno?
The second one
The Lost Primarchs are clearly a way to get players to imagine their own. Such as mine...
What happened was the 20th primarch, the OG Alpharius was found during the rag war working for the rags. As such he was killed and had to be replaced as the 20th is the secret police. No one primarch was up to the task so the primarchs of the 2nd and 11th would jointly control the legion and become Alpharius and Omegon. Since the secret police need to be secret everyone got mind wiped and hence the need to destroy all evidence of their existance.
Interesting!
Malcador did say Alphararius needed to Think, Observe, and act. Be the blade of the emperor and cull the enemies inside the imperium that would go against the emperor's own designs. The alpha legion was originally a small strike force that focused in espionage, stealth, camouflage, and assassinations.
I think carcharodons are a remnant of the 2nd legion with some raven guard and night lords elements that either joined them in their exile or were their minders. The fact that their patrols regularly take them through areas of the galaxy where the Rangdan Xenocides occurred leads me to believe that whatever befell their gene father involved the Rangdan.
I sould kinda like the idea that one of them was no warrior. He showed compassion but lacked the necessary cruelty and heartlessness you need in war. Either he refused to fight entirely (hence he was called a hypocrite) or was, as the Emperor regards his sons as tools, not a tool for warfare but for reconstruction and governance. So a tool for peace times. And so the Godemperor kept him locked away and hidden so he cannot be corrupted by Chaos. And when the bloodshed is over and the galaxy lies in ruins it's his turn to shine.
I like to think that the purged fell to chaos, whilst the forgotten found out about it. Then the two fought to the death, or maybe one was left but the emperor used the dark angels or space wolves to clear up the mess and make the situation disappear to hide the existence of chaos, possibly imprisoning the survivor.
And the situation fits in with the fact that the two legions were made by GW to be blank slate legions filled in with the players imagination.
I go with 3 possible answers
1. Wanting to create something similar to the Greater Good, where humanity took in Xenos as client states/allies.
2. Going full transhumanist and basically wanting to turn humanity into something like Necrons.
3. One of them was secretly trying to bring back the pre-Emperor religion, to try and birth/restore humanity's previous god as a warp entity protector.
I'd say the third option is possible. I think this because even the chaos legions dare speak of the lost legions. If the news got out about old Terra religions (which they sound WAY better than anything else out their). It could destabilize EVERTHING.
TL:DR ones dead at the hand of Russ on the Emperors orders the other is in prison under the Emperors palace
In my headcanon, one Primarch fell to Chaos and the other one allied himself with Xenos (Eldar?) to fight and kill his falllen brother and proposing some sort of collaboration or peaceful coexistence with the aliens. The emperor would not have it, eradicated the mislead Primarch and his alien Contraband, covering everything up as the "Rangdan Xenocide", then erased all knowledge of chaos and cooperating with Xenos "to preserve the ideals of the great crusade" (=atheism and extreme xenophobia).
I’m hoping for this 🙏🏻🙏🏻 In the darkest depths of the Imperium, hidden from the prying eyes of friend and foe alike, the second and eleventh legions bided their time. For millennia, they had patiently awaited the call, their purpose veiled in secrecy. Now, as the Tyranid threat loomed over Terra, the time for their return had finally come.
Across the galaxy, the tendrils of the Tyranid Hive Fleet encircled the bastions of humanity. Desperation and despair suffused the air as the defenders of the Imperium fought tooth and nail to hold back the unrelenting swarm. But hope flickered in the shadows, for the Emperor's hidden warriors prepared to reveal themselves.
In the heart of Terra, the High Lords of the Imperium convened a clandestine meeting. Within the chamber, secrets were shared, oaths were renewed, and the existence of the second and eleventh legions was unveiled to a select few. Their task was to turn the tide, to safeguard the cradle of humanity from this devouring menace.
With the order given, the hidden legions emerged from the shadows. The second legion, clad in midnight-blue power armor, bore the emblem of a blazing white phoenix. The eleventh legion, their armor shimmering with iridescent hues, displayed a sigil of a coiled serpent. Together, they advanced, a force of myth and legend.
As they stepped onto the war-torn soil of Terra, a ripple of astonishment swept through the defenders. Their arrival inspired awe and rejuvenated the weary souls who had fought tirelessly. The second and eleventh legions took their positions, their tactical brilliance immediately apparent.
Utilizing ancient strategies and employing devastating weaponry, the legions struck with precision and coordination. The Tyranid horde, caught off guard by the sudden appearance of these enigmatic warriors, faltered. The defenders of Terra rallied behind their saviors, their morale reignited.
The battle raged on, the skies ablaze with the fury of the clash. The second legion, with their phoenix emblem, unleashed cleansing flames upon the Tyranids, reducing their ranks to ash. The eleventh legion, their serpent insignia glinting with deadly resolve, struck with venomous precision, severing the synaptic links between the hive mind and its bioforms.
As the dust settled and the remnants of the Tyranids scattered in retreat, the defenders of Terra stood in awe of the second and eleventh legions. Their mission was accomplished, their duty fulfilled. With solemn nods and silent acknowledgments, the hidden legions vanished once again, retreating to the shadows from whence they came.
In the aftermath, tales of the second and eleventh legions' return spread throughout the Imperium. They became legends, whispered by those who had witnessed their valor. Their actions served as a testament to the indomitable spirit of humanity and the hidden strength that could emerge in its darkest hour.
And so, the second and eleventh legions returned to their hidden sanctuaries, awaiting the next time the Imperium would need them. Their loyalty and sacrifice would forever be etched in the annals of history, reminding the Imperium that even in the face of overwhelming darkness, hope could be found in the most unexpected of places.
Dude, you made a whole short story that could easily be used in an actually canon setting, you must now journey on a pilgrimage to the department that makes warhammer 40k and submit your idea if possible for you may serve the God emperor proudly
That's basically the legion of the damned
i think both primarchs wr gone by the time Corax was found if i remember correctly
The video having a detailed discussion and research versus you (if you are remembering correctly)...... uhmmmm i choose the channel info
Reuben . versus? It's comment made as his watching the video brains for ςh.. did you see any argument or talking ςh or something and what he says is correct but that beyond the point tοxιc ςh like you is what ruin this community. Can't be just nice or don't even respond even better?
You re 100% correct I know what book you re talking about
@@NancyDLaw for some reason i cant see the first comment you made now but i did read it. you re correct i did let the original comment few sec before the NB mention the same thing . dont waste your time with coment like that you cant win a argument with rτrd ppl. it would take less then 2 working brain cells to figure the situation as you also did ..ykwm ??😅
I’ve always assumed that fate of the missing legions is simply a nod to the fate of various ancient Roman legions and the lost Standards.
Of note, it is mentioned by some Custodes in the Wolftime that the Eleventh fought the Wolves, BUT that they were unknowingly manipulated into betrayal, but were loyal otherwise. I personally think the Eleventh was puppeteered by Rangdan and died in a mutual kill with the Second. The Legions were mindwiped and spared
i like to imagine that one of the two was loyalist, and the other was traitor, which would make it a perfectly even split. and it could be that one wiped out the other so this was hidden with both being wiped from history
I like to think one of the lost primarchs saw theough the emperor the moment they met. He was just like "no thank you, i have no interest in joining your cult" and the emperor couldnt have that so he got deleted.
Dorn told Sigisumun isn't his son, what if he was of the 2nd or 11th legion... imperial fist and ultramarine are said to of had a huge influx of marines before the heresy.. makes you wonder about the soul drinkers as well.
For me, at least one of the lost primarchs had to had died and the imperium had to cover up there death to keep the image of the space marines being invisible, got to keep an image.
I thought I heard somewhere that EARLY early 40k lore had the 2nd as the Rainbow Warriors and 11th and the Invocators or something
Rainbow Warriors... that's why
@@flonkplonk1649 Yeah not the most intimidating name ever lol
They were supposed to represent the warriors of the Pacific islands. Those type of rainbow warriors (see University of Hawaii)
Not the current year kind
interex faction just maybe 1 of the 2 lost primarchs was sent there
I hope some day GW explores the Rangdan Xenocides in great detail
You know how corax has a warp form now. How hes basically a crow monster that's waiting outside logar's house with a baseball bat?
What if one of the lost primarch awakened their warp form waaay too early. It would explain why some of the primarchs would volunteer to have their minds wiped.
There's a "subject 11" within the dark cells, does that has to do with anything?
Could be... Are the 11th the forgotten legion?
@@danielhogan6255 They are the purged.
That was one of the better videos regarding the lost Primarchs.
With Guiliman and the Lion we now got two characters back who know of the lost Legions and their Primarchs fates. Maybe we ll get to know something about that trough them. However, this is unlikely as they got much more important stuff to do than talking about that.
THANK YOU! Ever since I became a fan of this franchise I wish to know about the 2th ad 11th legions
Lion mentions in his book on the primarchs that two false generals were killed in the Ulanor campaign. Later, more came along with the Emperor.
The primarchs all had aspects of the emperor's character. You just need to consider what aspects of the emperor's nature that wouldn't be usefull in the great crusade and you've solved the riddle behind the 2 lost primarchs
Been thinking about the same. What if one is gifted with the emperors strong compassion so that primarch is useless as a warrior
That was angron before the butchers nails I think
Angron was the emperor's rage
@aayushchhajer1208 after the nails he became the emperors rage...his ability before was to absorb pain and negative emotions of others. I seem to agree I think the 2nd or 11th was the true primarch to embody the emperors rage so he had to "remove him"
Here’s my wild theory: Omegon and Alpharius were 2 and 11. They pulled a wild gambit and became 20 as one Primarch leaving 2 and 11 empty
I have a close theory to that. They are clones of #2 and #11, but after Horus accidentally killed Alpharius before realizing he was a primarch, and Big E had to use them as the 20th.
I also believe that the deletion of #2 and #11 exp”wins why the Custodes didn’t save Angron. What if after losing two of his sons, he faced the prospect of losing another one and he panicked?
what if they are deleted from records not because they are failures but represent the emperor failure, who know maybe at least one die before the Emperor find him, maybe they are finded but refuse to join and run away, this will represent that the Emepro fail to find his suns in time, that he failed
imagine if one of these two were in a prison complex over the imperial palace that would be incredibly massive.
That thumbnail....I cannot see Sanguinius without seeing Alexander Skarsgård now :D
So why don't Chaos forces reveal the history of the lost Primarchs. Just to fuck with the Imperium ?
Cause even they don't remember
Even chaos wouldn't dare talk about it, it's probably something insanely warp sensitive
Another theory: they were minor chaos/warp gods
Well, it's basically confirmed that all Primarchs are warp entities given physical form.
@@xuttuh5260 Sure. But perhaps they would have become too powerful, if they had unfolded their full potential over time. Even for the Emperor
I’ll be darned, it’s the guy who does MindQ! Moment I heard your voice I’m like “Wait a minute...” 😮 Take my subscription! 👍🏻
Another good video nutbugg
Soul Drinkers and Sons of Malice. At least in my head canon for the past 25 years or so.
My personal theory as to what happened to the legions afterwards is that the marines who could be mind wiped were brought into the Ultramarines as it talks of their legion size increasing exponentially after this. The others who couldn’t which most likely would’ve been psykers were some of the first Grey Knights. At least that’s what I’d like to believe.
Isn't it possible that after they got purged, they we're somehow revived by the warp resulting in their deformation, this diformation or curse or whatever you wanna call it being eternal flame resulting in the two Primarch's being primarch's of one single legion known as "Legion of The Damned"? After all it is called "Of The Damned". Just an theory tho i don't know if it's true but it would be crazy
I think the purged was the first true betrayal of big e and was systematically killed. The forgotten could be something as simple as the emperor sending him into dark space for a secret mission of some sort and wiped away any records of them, hence the forgotten.
What about specimen 11 being written on a cell door beaneth the imperial palace? A door the Custodes gaurd but have never opened.
Okay so likely cool theories for GW to eventually release would be: immideately opposing the emperor, emergency war reserve, forgiveness in the form of being forgotten, or my personal theory is that its likely one of them will include a very soft retcon to happen; one of them is the angel of destruction, prototype primarch during the unification wars it got so uncontrollably powerful and turned against humanity as a whole that they have to TRAP it instead of battling it head on, when they actually think of other ways but cool fantasy warrior sword fight, you know its way out of hand.
Gorka and Morka are two forgotten Primarchs
*fully explained* I think not! Anyway, you missed the link between the Primarch lore and Dante's trilogy, with the missing 2 Primarchs being from "Purgatio".
Bravo bravo encore encore!!!! Amazing job
Someone else suggested (can’t remember who) that the two missing legions are so that the players on either side can invent their own. That’s a possibility. The rainbow legion was in rogue trader and a few indexes. Thus they could be one of the legions. Or, it could be that Omegon had his own legion ?
The emperor of mankind failed humanity and his sons.
What if… one of them was infected by a genestealer? An entire legion carrying the curse of the four-armed emperor might have turned effectively all at once.
Tyranids weren't even in the galaxy yet
@@rustys.1070 far as we know. There was that one titan that they found with tyranid claw marks and acid burns dating back to the great crusades. They sure seem to get around.
I think, one of this primark, is the primark of the grey knight.
It says that horus try to say "ma ma malal" to malcador to say his one of his lost brother name, before malcador choke him
The two missing Primarchs are the Blue Wizards
the 11th legion Hammer Warriors faced censure for being "too on the nose" and the chapter was finally erased when the librarian was seen manipulating a cloud of several thousand power hammers to do war.
my serious grimdark headcanon for the banished legion is that the 2nd legion was a failed experiment involving pariah marines, only the primarch was successful. but since he was the perfect pariah, his childhood was like Curze's times 4. when the emperor found him he was alone on a destroyed world, a bloodstained crown upon his head. The null aura of this primarch was so powerful that the emperor appeared as a normal man to him, and upon seeing one he missed, the primarch attacked on sight. as they battle the primarch begins to overpower the emperor, at this point Malcador steps in and utters a whole sentence in annuncio, causing the primarch"s soul to suddenly invert and become non blank. seeing the opportunity, the emperor powers back up and horus blasts the 2nd primarch out of canon.
I loved this breakdown
I think that the 2 primarchs either attacked the Emperor or they were possessed in some way
Maybe the 11th did betray the emperor and forced it on his brother the 2nd and it that mutated them both.
My theory was that weapon that erases you from time was used and I feel a ying yang vibe from the missing two… my theory maybe one of them tried to team up with the tyranids and the other with the Necrons?
great video
All this info on the lost legion, and the writer in me wants to make something. So here we go
Mantiken was to be the 11th primarch of the Emperor, and he was to be the strategist. A cunning intellect and an adaptable mind would be a boon for the future of the Imperium. Unfortunately, when the Warp pulled the primarch capsules and scattered them, Mantiken's was closest to the gate and took the brunt of the corrupting warp. Mantiken landed on a desolate world called Sthenos. A world consistently in conflict and limited on resources. He grew up learning that his body was his best weapon as stone and metal degraded and would eventually fail him. He became a war leader on Sthenos and lead his forces to many victories. In time he attacked an alien adversary he had never seen before. These were monsters with bio-organic weapons, many of which out competed the paltry weapons he had at his disposal. In victory he found an opportunity. The Warp had changed him, and his body was his best weapon. It was time to use them, he had an adaptable mind, and thanks to the Warp, an adaptable body. He began inducing mutations in his own body, often mimicking the xenos that nearly bested his forces.
The Emperor was, less then pleased to see his prized strategist intentionally becoming a mutant, but he was the Emperor and Mantiken was a Primarch. The mutations were never labeled as such. They were 'additional biological enhancements' that Mantiken's body could handle. For a time, this was enough. Mantiken took charge of the 11th Astartes and lead them to many victories for the Emperor. Due to the instability of Mantiken's Gene-seed, the 11th Legion never had the numbers of many of the other legions. Behind closed doors though, Mantiken and the Emperor of Mankind argued a good deal, especially on the topic of humans and what constitutes as a mutant. This rift grew when it was brought to the Emperor's attention that members of Mantiken's Astartes were encouraged to develop and grow their own mutations as rank and badges of honor. They were starting to need the Adeptus Mechanicus less and less. In many people's eyes, they were becoming uncontrollable.
A new world was discovered, but the Imperium decided that the inhabitants were mutants and not welcome amongst the Empire of Man. As a test of loyalty, and slight discipline, The Emperor sent Mantiken and the 11th to assist in the purging of the world to make it ready for true humans to colonize. After all, who would defy the Emperor? The 11th Astartes under command from their Primarch killed the Imperium forces there and protected the natives. This slight, would not go unanswered Mantiken believed that having a large portion of his Astartes there would deter reckless retaliation. He wanted to believe that he could convince the Emperor that it was wrong to purge them, that they were more useful to the Imperium alive then as target practice. However, the man who was sent to deal with Mantiken did not believe so. An Exterminatus can be called on a planet where the cost of claiming it is higher than the resources there, and battling an entire legion of Astartes? Well, they encouraged mutants, defied the Emperor and 'unjustly' killed many brave men of the Imperium. They were traitors.
The planet was reduced to asteroids by intense bombardment. When this agent returned to tell The Emperor the wonderful news that the world was taken care of and the diabolical warp infused traitor was dealt with before he could corrupt any more.... he did not receive the reward he was expecting. The remaining 11th Legion Astartes were called to Holy Terra, where they had their minds wiped and discretely transferred to other Legions with their gene-seeds labeled as 'corrupted' so they would never be used again. To cover up that the Primarchs could be killed, the failings of the agent, and the treason of Mantiken, The Emperor declared all information on the 11th Legion to be redacted and erased from history. Few of the Primarchs remember their brother Mantiken. He was strong, he was able and despite having extremely different views then his brethren, was a Primarch and a good friend to many of his brothers, now lost and purged form history.
Thoughts?
They already visited multiple times but I think they're a reserved force
Wasn't stated actually out of lore years and years ago in the early years of the 40K creation that legions II and XI were left intentionally blank/scrubbed from history so that players could be free to create their own legions/chapters and not be chained to 20 pre made ones? This way you could get some interesting, diverse and well thought out chapters.
I have some good ideas about why II and XI are expunged from records...
Maybe the second and eleventh fought some sort of infohazardous xenos and their purge was a method of culling such a threat
I personally like to think that x is omegon as it is very much withing the alpha legions desires to keep the idea that there are the twin primarchs a secret hens alpharius being the only primarch that they actually talk about
trying to recall my oldmemories. Russ was the "bully" of the emperor. He send the wolfs when want to make public humillationandkeeptheirprimarcsalive. The secretexecutionerof the Emperor was the Lion. Hesend the first legion when want the primarks dead. in fact the lion , in the heresy was the one who tried to execute the "night stalker". The Lion in the one who killed the primarks and keep it quiet as most other secrets for the Emperor. Also the lost leguions where called "the lost and the damned" ans knicknames.
Since the primarchs "mother" separated them from their father to protect them according to some other videos I have seen. Would it make sense if they abandoned the Emperor to join their mother? That would open up a lot of stories.
A theory me and my friends elaborated was that one of the lost was an failed atempt to make a Female Primarch, when she was lost along with all of the other primarch, the Big E. realised that he could not use her gene-seed to make an female army of space marines for her to command, that failure must have been kept a total secret as "The Empreror has not or commists no failures".
Once she was found and and told by Big E. what she was and what was meant to be, she got severely depressed, becase she was the only ever failure of Big E. but he still had plans for her as a "hand in the shadows", at gathering intel as and absurdly powerful spy and diplomat.
When the Horus Heresy happened she was far away on a mission and only managed to get back to Terra when Big E. was already on the Golden Throne, again depressed that she was away when Big E needed him the most and seeing him rooting alive, while the whole religion around Big E. started to build up, she took her chance to influence the church into building an army that she made her own image, the Adeptas Sororitas, all of the especializations they have, comes from her trainning, skills and teachings she finally managed to build an army she was meant to have but her gene-seed did not, all while still being hidden like Big E wanter her to remain.
And that's how the Sororitas are this absurdly powerhouse they are, basically an female army come true by an 40k wahammer version of WonderWoman.
An inherent gene-seed flaw caused the 2nd and 11th legions to be less-than-effective combat units. Less effective than the other legions, anyway. This less-than-effectiveness contributed to most of their numbers, including their primarchs, getting wiped out by the Rangdan. The few survivors were culled by the Space Wolves so their memory could be erased from history, as their flaw made them an embarrassment to the Emperor.
The hypothesis about the survivors joining the Ultramarines is dubious at best. Legions come from different planets and have wildly different cultures. Legionnaires from one planet assimilating into a legion from another, while not impossible, is not a thing that would go unnoticed, thus invalidating the whole "erase them from history" thing.
I like to think one of the Lost Primarchs was unpersoned because he was sent to an alien world instead of a human one and grew up to care more for his surrogate species then the Imperium of Man and abandoned the Emperor right before the Horus Heresey happened. So there's this successful pocket empire in a forgotten corner of the galaxy lead by a Primarch and his alien wards.
so im guessing if it isnt alpharius omegon, then it must be the thunder warrior primarch and Leetus the forgetten son
Weren't there also 20 thunder warrior primarchs?
in my headcannon one was born on a pacifist world and did not want to be a general in the crusade and the emperor fearing his sons striving beyond his immediate need decided to snip the alternative in the bud.
In most mythologies there always have an event so big that it nearly wipe out entire human race like Raknarok, Kali Yuga, the fallen sun or the flood, etc. The humans that survive these events, Noah, Modi and Magni etc, will lead humanity to a new age
So i guess that will be the roll of at least one of the 2 lost Primarchs, when the final battle of 40k end, the Emperor, the Priamarch, Chaos, Xenos propably will all be dead. And the lost Primarchs will appear to protect and guide what left of humanity to a new age
I Believe one was a Primarch Ratling, towering, godlike at almost 6 feet tall! The other a Primarch Jokero constructed a trasdimsional wristwatch from its own fur in under a second disappearing to a pocket dimension inside the Emperors left ear, where it continued the big E’s Webway project.
Convincing...
Son of Malice maybe predecessor of lost primarch
It answer is in the names. The "lost." And the "purged." One of them died. Probably to Rangdan, the other probably saw to much and turned against the imperium.
Who did the thumbnail art?
The Emperor created a new space marine and that is the Grey Knights He (The Emperor) replaced maybe the 2nd or the 11th missing space marine.
What if II and/or XI had something to do with the later T'au?
I think one of them decided to team up with the tyranids and the other joined the necrons
The average Imperial citizen doesn't know that there were 18-21 Primarchs. They learn from the Ecclesiarchy that the Emperor only had 9 sons. Mainly, it's only the Astartes, the Inquisition, and the High Lords of Terra who know the truth.
i got the impression the emperor killed ther fairie one, and i always forget about the other one
We always think " Chaos " when we read " Traitor ". But how about this theory :
One of the lost Primarch ( pick the one you want ) was send to the universe with the others, but never hit the ground of a planet. But he hit something...
A ship. Big, old, forgotten by the rest of the galaxy. A relic of the Dark Age of Technology.
Imagine a fleet, dozens, maybe hundreds of ships, coming from the golden age of Humanity. People who seek refuge into the void when the first human empire collapse, just like the aeldari do.
With time they formed a nomad nation, half merchants half pirates, always moving into the galaxy. They have very good tech, they understand it, they trade with humans and aliens without distinction. Business is business after all.
They have a strong culture of freedom and independance, they never stay in a place for long. They don't have navigators, they hide navigation beacons into the void or on the planet they visit for transactions. Their jumps are shorts, but precise and sure.
The kid is adopted by the crew of the ship he hit ( maybe the captain family ) and become part of this people.
When the emperor found him and these people, they see the great crusade and the imperium as a threat. The absolute authority of this unique leader, the mandatored " Imperial Compliance " means the end of their culture and their people.
Problem : They are pirates sometimes, they can defend themselves, but the imperium is a war machine. Fighting is not an option.
So the Primarch send a very clear message : " You are my maker, not my father. These people are my people. We won't submit. Farewell. "
And they disapear into the void. Using road known by them only, they disband into smaller fleets, reuniting every two or three centuries in secret places.
This is a big slap in the emperor face, and in terms of public relationships, it is a disaster. So they just make it disapear.
( And to be honest, the idea of a Primarch involved in piracy/smuggling/trading with aliens makes me laugh )
And what if the emperor and the cigilite erased their records but not them because some were sent on a special agenda into the warp???
Something like locating a special place within the warp were the emperor can focus his energy to achieve his real goal that might have been the creation of a new GOD like entity within the warp that will channel the hope of all humanity and face the chaos pantheon directly in their realm...
Then the golden throne was just a catalyser build for this secret purpose😏😏😏😏
One of them will be The Legion of the Damned
That's what i think as well
No, they are the successors of fire hawks, successors of ultramarine, they lost in the warp and become ghosts
At the beginning of the Heresy they sided with Horus (Codex Uktramarines, 2nd ed.).
I like to think that they were in the Webway for all the time, pushing the Emperor's secret project. Funny how the Webway portal came under attack by Horus allies, no?
Also, lore tells that most of Horus allies realised their mistakes after his death, and turned on the Chaos worshippers, self exiling themselves knowing there was no redemption nor pardon for them in the Imperium.
I thought the xenocide was their last battle?
2nd legion primarch is Bud Spencer.
11th legion Primarch is Terrence Hill.
end of discussion.
Well it's likely they blocked the memory of the two primarchs because whatever situation that would've caused that was handled/ taken care of.
The traitor primarchs were an active issue, wouldn't do much good to wipe people's memory of that until they were all taken care of.
What a messy lore over a not so good idea (To have two free spots for the fans to make their own legions 😂).
In the Rogue Trade era books I kinda remember that the erasure of the "chapters" was placed or sugested arround the Age of Apostasy and in general I think it made more sense. It was another Empire after all, with the Emperor in the Golden Throne and the Inquisition in place burning books.
But with the Horus Heresy novels came all this convoluted mistery 😅
There is not one but two questions you need to ask yourself: First one is which was asked in this video: what the hell would the emperor find so obnoxious and unforgivable that he would annihilate two primarchs? I mean the fact the Conrad and Angron exist pretty much tells you how much tolerance Big E has on that part. But the second and most important question which wasn't asked in this Video is: Why would the emperor want to hide all knowledge of it? if the point is discipline then he'd WANT the entire galaxy to know what happens, make an example of those two Primarchs, but he didn't and that would only be for one reason and one reason only; the one and only thing the Emperor would have gotten to all this length to cover it up: Chaos.
Those two primarchs must have come in contact with Chaos, and probably embraced it in a way that they probably tried to augment their marines with Chaos shit which corrupted their Gene Seed beyond hope. And that would be the only reason why the Emperor would have wanted the Primarchs gone, their legions gone, every piece and knowledge about them: Gone, as we all know, the Emperor did not have faith in anyone in the Imperium knowing about Chaos.