LOA1955 You are not alone. I think everyone involved -- from the studio audience, to John Daly and the contestant, to all of us watching it now -- enjoyed it thoroughly. It was truly funny! Even John commented that this was one of the most fun segments they'd had on the show in years and mentioned that visual specifically! (Note his comments, beginning at around 18:15.)
I loved Harpo and Chico the most. Zeppo and Gummo really didn't count in the long run, and few people except Marx o' philes like I am even know what their roles were, or even that they existed. Groucho was just necessary to the comedy team of early movie fame, in my opinion. He was always more obnoxious and irritating than funny to me, but it wouldn't have worked without him. Later, when the brothers were dead or off scene and he was on his own, I never thought he was particularly funny at all--just rude and insulting to defenseless people.
It's always a riot whenever Groucho is around. There has never been another person with his charisma, comic ability, and timing. That's why he will always be "the one and only".
Always a delight to watch these treasures - but this one was SO much fun. Kudos to the director, during the questioning of the man who sharpened pencils, while Henry Morgan was asking his questions, seeing that Michele Lee was toying with a pencil (!), calling for a pan to her - most unusual, but did it ever work! More screen time for Ms Lee of course a bonus, but this was just such a nice quick thinking - and humorous - touch for live TV. The episode brought a flood of memories - while Ms Lee had just recreated the role of Rosemary in the film version of "How to Succeed in Business," a few years earlier my Mom and I enjoyed a performance of the show during its original Broadway run. Mom was big on waiting at the stage door after shows and she asked for Ms Lee's autograph. She signed my program and I will always remember how beautiful, vivacious, and gracious she was to a young guy who would go on to love the art form of the Broadway musical and regularly present such music on the radio. A fan forever, Ms Lee.
I just love to watch John Daly being pretty much forced to talk in circles. I think with the pencil sharpening guy, when Arlene Francis asks if it informs you of anything, and Daly actually whistles out, realizing that this is going to be a real tough determination to make, and express into words, is the funniest example of this little quirk that I've seen. OMG! Then when Michelle Lee starts asking a question and she has her pencil in her hand, and is waving it around! Too funny!
I cant believe Bennett didnt guess the first guest after he has been to the Caribbean for so many of his vacations. I can only assume he was distracted by her appearance. I loved it when Ms Lee was twirling the pencil around and the audience cracked up. Too funny.
John Daly missed the "dolphin" reference by the fishing instructor as her segment was wrapping up. He thought she was referring to porpoises (i.e. mammals), when she obviously meant the sporting fish, the "dolphinfish", or mahi-mahi or Pompano (a specie of actual fish, not mammal), commonly referred-to by sport fisherman simply as "dolphin".
I hate that this show went off the air. It's one of those universal interest shows that would work anytime, anyplace, in any era. With all the old '50s and '60s game shows that have been dusted off and brought back in recent years, I'm frankly surprised that this one has not. I suspect part of the reason is that this show worked mostly because of the unique chemistry and characteristics of its moderator and panel regulars. And the fact that they brought a certain elegance and elan to the show, I think, is one of the ingredients that made this show very special and hard to replicate. Clearly, the syndicated versions of the '70s never quite measured up to the original John Charles Daly hosted version with Arlene, Dorothy and Bennett. Still, I have an idea of one news anchor (the same occupation of John Daly) who might bring a similar sensibility if they ever wanted to give it another go, since he not only has a similar elegance, but also a wicked sense of humor. I'm speaking of Brian Williams. But as for the other panel members, I'm not sure who's out there that would bring the right chemistry.
If you like this sort of show, you might enjoy British panel shows. QI is my personal favorite and you can find a number of episodes on YT if you don't want to pay for Britbox.
Overall this was a very good episode of WML.The first 2 contestants were very puzzling and Groucho Marx is one of the funniest men that was ever on earth.I'm a huge Marx brothers fan so I was very happy 2 c him on the show.
Arlene asks if the pencil informs you of anything. The pencil does created information, but it does not, in and of itself, inform you of anything. The audience was ahead of John on this one and Mr. Daly gets a strike.
Both Michele Lee and Henry Morgan were excellent panelists. Morgan made funny remarks and was not intimidated by the situation of being on the show. Michele Lee asked good questions and was a real asset to WML, too bad she only appeared one more time after this.
The panelists through April 1967 who are still living as of 2020 are Woody Allen, Paul Anka, Joanna Barnes, Harry Belafonte, Jeannie Carson, Dick Cavett, Joan Collins, Anne Douglas, Jane Fonda, Anita GIllette, George Hamilton, Jack Jones, Aliza Kashi, Steve Lawrence, Michele Lee, Pia Lindstrom, Sue Oakland, Mort Sahl, William Shatner, Marlo Thomas, Pamela Tiffin, Dick Van Dyke, Betty White.
The audience's hilarious reaction to the "pencil" segment, with both Michele Lee and Henry Morgan brandishing pencils, brings to mind the Sept. 1, 1957 show in which panelist Ernie Kovacs, cigar in hand, was confronted with a woman who made cigars. ua-cam.com/video/DPAr8YEKdOQ/v-deo.html
I checked a couple of slang dictionaries about this: the audience reaction when Michele Lee asked the pencil sharpener "Do you put the lead in the pencil?" was uproarious (17:40), and I expected that the audience was thinking the same thing I was. Indeed, the slang sense of "that'll put lead in his pencil" meaning "that'll give him an erection" dates back at least to 1900. I don't know if it's still current, but it was when I was in school over forty years ago.
@Just a Girl You're the one who used a four-letter word. I talked about normal human reactions and popular phrases in a mature way. I'm more disturbed about your comment's suitability for family discussion than I am about mine.
@Just a Girl Mulling your response over, I begin to be worried about your calling male physical reactions "sicko." I hope you will consider talking to your doctor or clergy person or other trusted counselor about your feelings about men, especially if you have any parental or teaching responsibility for boys and young men. It's of course a stretch for me to infer how you really feel from a short response, but if you mean what you say as I fear you do, you could seriously warp the personality of a youth and lead him to think of his own body as dirty. Remember that if men didn't get erections, none of us would ever have been born. I happen to believe that God created men and women as we are for the purposes of holy matrimony, not only to "be fruitful and multiply" but also to bond married couples together, and to me there's nothing sicko about that.
Neil Midkiff I'm pretty sure that the audience reaction to Michelle's question had nothing to do with an innuendo for getting erections. Despite that metaphor perhaps going back a hundred years, I think your interpretation of it is too modern. If it had been on the show a few decades later then certainly they would've made the most of the innuendo but not here. Innuendo does occur a lot on this show but not as far as erections, I don't think. Not in 1967 on a CBS peak viewing broadcast, Sunday night. Even Groucho's desperately unfunny signature on the board goes above all their heads.
2:15: "And here is a magnificent specimen of a rapidly-vanishing breed, the television panel moderator." Surely Bennett's reference to the impending cancellation?
This was one of the last shows of tbe original run (CBS 1950-1967) and by tnis time was broadcast in color (you can see the lighting and makeup difference even in this black and white kinescope).
G-T liked Henry Morgan on WML because he brought the unexpected to the program. He also brought a certain amount of rude. "What kind of job is that for a growing boy" he says to the professional pencil sharpener. I suppose the kid could ask him the same question about hosting "Monitor."
In my opinion Morgan was easily the worst panelist ever. Not in terms of guessing, but in terms of rudeness. Introducing Michelle Lee in terms of sex was rude already.
There were several occasions when she seemed to be without it, including: 2/7/60: On this show (Julie Andrews/mystery guest, Martin Green/guest panelist), Arlene wore a low-neckline dress and 4 or 5 strings of a thick costume necklace. The costume necklace might’ve concealed her heart necklace, or she might not have been wearing it. Anyway, it wasn’t visible. 6/5/60: On this episode (Bobby Darin/mystery guest, Mel Torme/panelist), Arlene wore a high neckline dress and another thick costume necklace (similar to, but not the same as, the one worn on 2/7/60), either of which might’ve concealed her heart necklace. Or, she might not have been wearing it. Again, it wasn’t visible. 10/28/62: This was one "What’s My Line" episode (Tony Martin/mystery guest, Peter Ustinov/panelist) on which Arlene Francis clearly was NOT wearing her usual diamond heart necklace pendant. This night, she wore a pearl necklace only, and her heart-pendant couldn’t have been covered by it. 12/9/62: Another WML episode without Arlene’s heart-necklace (Bobby Darin/mystery guest, Alan King/panelist). This time, she wore a low neckline dress, and clearly was wearing no necklace at all. 10/25/64: On this episode (James Garner/mystery guest, Tony Randall/panelist), she wore four-row string of pearls that did not appear to cover the diamond heart-pendant on its usual thin gold chain. However, on her left side of the pearls, a diamond heart-pendant appeared to have been attached, without its chain, as an add-on adornment to the pearl necklace. The pendant could’ve been the one from her famous necklace, without its chain. 4/23/67: And, apparently, this episode (Groucho Marx/mystery guest, Michele Lee/panelist). Here, she’s wearing a sleeveless black dress with large white polka dots. In the center of the high neckline of the dress, she’s wearing a brooch that resembles a Maltese (or Florian) cross. Her diamond heart necklace might possibly be concealed beneath the top of her dress, except that there’s no chain visible around her neck. So, apparently not tonight.
You have to hand it to Henry Morgan for catching on to why the audience was laughing when Michele Lee was waving around her pencil. He's not one of my favorite personalities, but by no means as bad a panelist as some have suggested.
I thought Henry was trying too much to be funny. Remember Henry's first appearance as a panelists on WML where he really earned the wrath of everybody else in the room? I am surprised to see him again on WML but he was toned down here!
I was a bit impressed that John Daly knew "Tack så mycket" as a response to a compliment such as "Du ser mycket bra ut". Most Americans don't even know that much Swedish.
ToddSF 94109 John was an educated man. I am sure he knew how to say 'Thank you' in several languages. She spoke Swedish with a thick, typical American accent. Nowadays the most American tourists I meet can say "Tack så mycket". It's very pleasant when one makes the effort and learn some phrases when going abroad.
I had to learn more than "Tack så mycket" because I visited and met many cousins of my mother who lived in Dalarna and Värmland, all born from 1915 through the 1920's. They didn't have any English to speak of. Nice to be able to say something at a coffee bar such as "Kan jag be att få en kopp kaffe med grädde, tack," and to understand how much I had to pay when the cost was given to me in Swedish. Also good when reading signs while driving a rental car, or reading signs posted when riding a train, etc. As I've said before, there just aren't any nicer people, in general, than Swedes, and I think most Swedish people are kind and polite, much like Canadians.
ToddSF 94109 My guess is that John knew some Swedish words or phrases because his mother-in-law was a Swedish-born woman. It turns out that his mother-in-law left Sweden when she was an infant to come to America with her family but my guess is that she knew some Swedish words or phrases and taught them to John. Swedish, after all, was never widely taught or widely spoken in America so I doubt very much that John learned some Swedish words or phrases on his own.
ToddSF 94109 That's nice to hear. :) But in my experience the Americans (or New Yorkers since I only have visited New York) are more polite and friendly than Swedes. If you bump in to someone in Sweden when walking, be sure to be ignored or hear "Watch yourself!" - never expect an excuse or "Sorry". When I was in NY I constantly heard "Sorry sir" or "I'm so sorry sweetie" or "Sorry man" even from young thugs on the subway.
Not sure if you remember me bugging you about a grocery clerk episode and one with pencils, but this is the pencil one. Thanks so much for writing these. You have no idea how helpful it is.
We always make a big deal of Henry Morgan's interruption of Bennett Cerf's introduction in July 1967, but here tonight Arlene interrupted Henry's introduction.
Fer crying out loud. It's 1967, and John still hasn't learned that wood was once alive? Henry Morgan directly asked the pencil guy if the product *started out* living. How could John have allowed the contestant to answer No to a question worded that specifically? And as usual, no one objected at the end of the segment.
As we've discussed so many times before, it defies belief that plants aren't considered living things on WML. I think they use the terminology "growing" for plants rather than "living". That's not to mention all the other gaffes -- such as referring to oysters or lobsters or crabs as "fish", and calling a crab, shrimp, prawn or lobster a "mollusk" when those are crustaceans, and nonsense of that nature. Most panel members aren't knowledgeable in those areas with certain exceptions such as Tony Randall, who was bright and well-read about such things. Remember that time that Martin Gabel took umbrage because he was supposedly taught in his prestigious and expensive prep school that insects were in a completely different class from animals and not rightly considered animals? Ridiculous. I remain unimpressed with private prep school educations.
corner moose I honestly don't recall that standard ever being explained on any of these shows, defining life as mobility, but if it was ever explained, it was exceedingly rare. They were free to decide on whatever standards they wanted to apply for the show, but not to presume the audience would understand the arbitrary standards without any explanation. If they were going to choose so thoroughly arbitrary and illogical a "term of reference", John should have clarified the WML "standard" every time the subject came up. How many times did we hear John explain that "special training" on WML was taken to mean college education? That's a whole lot less necessary to explain every time than the WML "rule" that plants are not alive because they don't move. Does that mean a Venus Flytrap is alive, but ordinary plants aren't? Also, note that there was one show where Tony Randall raised a "point of order" directly questioning John on this, and John admitted on camera that there was no justifiable logical reason for considering only animals to be alive. It's just absurd, especially given how intelligent and well educated *all* of these folks were. But as I've said, you don't need to be intelligent or well educated to know better than this. A three year old child knows that a plant is alive! :)
I'd agree with that. John Daly was the best moderator ever, despite his quirks. His genial personality, sense of humor and verbal agility made that so.
I heard somewhere that he EITHER had scoliosis or had polio as a kid and thats why upu always seem to watch him going forward deeply into his step, cuz it's actually kind of a lopsided limp with his left leg.
Groucho was one of the funniest people to ever race the earth. We are so much better for having him, Harpo and Chico and, indeed, the entire Marx family.
wingsandash The handsome brother who couldn't do comedy at all was "Zeppo". He lasted through about 2 of their movies until they admitted to themselves that he didn't fit in. P.S. : There was a fifth brother, Milton, nicknamed "Gummo" who didn't much like performing. I believe he pretty much became a talent promoter. He was the brother that Groucho said he was closest to because "he was a nice man, unlike Zeppo".
In the 1966-1967 playlist, there are no episodes between March 19, 1967 and this episode on April 23, 1967. Are those episodes lost? Were they maybe recorded on videotape only, and not on kinescope? Update: The Mark Goodson Wiki site says that the March 26 episode exists at the Paley Center for Media, and that the April 9 episode is missing. Also, there is no episode listed for April 2, so apparently WML did not air on that date. But there is no note for the April 16 episode. So that explains some of the missing episodes, but I wonder if the April 16, 1967 episode is available anywhere?
I recall an earlier episode where Henry Morgan interrupted Bennett Cerf when Mr. Cerf went into an extended introduction of John Day at the beginning of the show. I'd thought that was Henry Morgan's last episode, as if he'd been exiled for berating Bennett Cerf.
That episode certainly should have been his last appearance. Morgan was rude and obnoxious, and I didn’t blame Cerf for being steamed. Morgan was an abrasive jerk.
WELL DONE ARLENE....with the 'that's slurred' interjection during Morgan's dreadful introduction of the next panellist. The audience mostly missed it but I heard ya!! Nice one.
All of the wooden-clad pencils I've ever bought came with a completely blunt end and I've had to sharpen them myself, which is one reason I have a really good pencil sharpener -- it's something I couldn't do without.
Johan Bengtsson It's a combination of the aromatic cedar they use for the wood in most pencils and the smell of ground graphite -- the so-called "lead" in the pencil being that particular form of pure carbon. I agree -- it's one of those interesting smell -- especially if you have one of those old-fashioned pencil sharpeners with a small crank you turn and the emptiable reservoir for the shavings. Nowadays, I have an electric pencil sharpener, which is very nice, but it doesn't generate the same aroma as the old crank-style ones.
We had crank-style pencil sharpeners in every classroom from kindergarten through 12th grade. My parents also put one in the broom closet at one end of our kitchen. That smell does bring back memories. However, I have been buying Bic disposable mechanical pencils for years with a plastic body and five or six graphite "leads" inside -- you just push the eraser at the top to extend more lead as it wears down, so I, too, haven't sharpened a pencil for a long time. It has been so convenient just to push the button for more lead if it breaks or wears down.
The wolf whistles were so funny. I thought it made WML ,(more so in the earlier years), sound like an old strip club.You just wouldn't get that on any show today.
To me, on first glance, the first contestant, Elisabeth Christenson, bears quite a resemblance to Meredith MacRae. And, when his line is being shown on screen, I think that, from a straight ahead view, the second contestant, John Thompson, bears more than a passing facial resemblance to actor Burt Ward.
In all of my 64 years, I can't recall ever seeing pre-sharpened pencils in stores! Maybe my "misspent" youth has something to do with it. We may never know.
I was buying them both sharpened and unsharpened in 1967 for school. The following year we were issued cheap Bic pens, and never saw pencils after that. My teacher announced “your years of erasing your mistakes are now behind you”.
I note that Arlene is wearing a bejeweled cross pattée as a pendant from a delicate chain in this episode instead of her famous diamond-encrusted heart pendant. I wonder if the stones aren't colored -- they look darkish in black-and-white rather than white as diamonds look.
ToddSF 94109 Is it on a chain? I thought it might be a brooch (pinned on), with the chain from her diamond pendant (which might have been hidden beneath the collar of the dress) visible as well. But I could be wrong.
I suppose her heart pendant could have been hidden by the high neckline of her dress, so that the cross pattée was actually a brooch pinned high on the dress right in the center, so that the chain and the cross weren't actually joined. Hard to tell. I, too, could certainly be wrong -- I was just going with how it appeared to me, but I see now it could be just the way you suggest. I find the bejeweled cross interesting whichever way it actually is.
I wish Bennett had not zeroed in on Groucho so quickly. He could have let the questioning make at least one pass around the panel before narrowing it down.
Michele Lee gets a barrelful of laughs as she waves her pencil around while asking the pencil guy questions. Is this the same show, or was there another where a panelist also waved a pencil around while questioning a pencil person. I seem to remember that.
+Barry Kendrick If we're remembering the same episode, it was the other way around: the bottled water salesman teasingly sipped from the water glass while being questioned.
And of course the other unwritten rule was that the panel should go around once before divulging the MG's name, a rule that was occasionally broken by the panel, and on this night, by the MG!
Johan Bengtsson In some ways, Groucho reminds me of Robin Williams in that he was always "on" -- he would do anything to make people laugh and he seemed to live for doing that. Absolutely and always hilarious.
ToddSF 94109 It looked so easy when Groucho cracked jokes all the time in the conversation with John and the panel. He was never speechless. :) --- except once when the matador kissed him on the cheeks. :)
Johan Bengtsson - He made a better mystery guest than a panelist, however, because, as a panelist, the show simply could not progress given his antics. Certain comedians as guest panelists just didn't work very well, because it was all about their comedy and not being a team player who was actually there to play the game. Even so, Groucho as a guest panelist was just hilarious.
I find Henry Morgan's remark, "What kind of job is that for a growing boy?" tactless, at best, and really not at all funny. It seemed to make the guest feel uncomfortable & embarrassed.
doug w Hand over those pencils! I have not been in jail but the thought of "sitting" there is far less attractive than doing a boring job like sharpening pencils!
![What's My Line? - Horst Buchholz; Buddy Hackett [panel]; Martin Gabel [panel] (Feb 18, 1962)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/3pbKR6_i8EM/mqdefault.jpg)
![What's My Line? - Groucho Marx; Tony Randall [panel] (Oct 13, 1963)](/img/n.gif)
"You dirty louse" "What are we wasting our time here for?"
I love it X}
Michele Lee waving the pencil around had me in stitches! I guess I'm easily amused. ;-)
LOA1955
You are not alone. I think everyone involved -- from the studio audience, to John Daly and the contestant, to all of us watching it now -- enjoyed it thoroughly. It was truly funny! Even John commented that this was one of the most fun segments they'd had on the show in years and mentioned that visual specifically! (Note his comments, beginning at around 18:15.)
It was the eagle-eyed cameramen that first noticed it and zoomed in on it.
He added to overall hilarity.
lol, I guess I'm easily amused to since I laughed when I read you comment
Groucho! One of my favorite people who ever lived!
Same!
.......
And he had all my respects when John revealed where all the earnings from his book would go!!
100%. I’d love to be able to sit down and smoke a cigar with him.
There could never be another Groucho!! Loved him!!!
I loved Harpo and Chico the most. Zeppo and Gummo really didn't count in the long run, and few people except Marx o' philes like I am even know what their roles were, or even that they existed. Groucho was just necessary to the comedy team of early movie fame, in my opinion. He was always more obnoxious and irritating than funny to me, but it wouldn't have worked without him. Later, when the brothers were dead or off scene and he was on his own, I never thought he was particularly funny at all--just rude and insulting to defenseless people.
Robin Williams
It's always a riot whenever Groucho is around. There has never been another person with his charisma, comic ability, and timing. That's why he will always be "the one and only".
Always a delight to watch these treasures - but this one was SO much fun. Kudos to the director, during the questioning of the man who sharpened pencils, while Henry Morgan was asking his questions, seeing that Michele Lee was toying with a pencil (!), calling for a pan to her - most unusual, but did it ever work! More screen time for Ms Lee of course a bonus, but this was just such a nice quick thinking - and humorous - touch for live TV. The episode brought a flood of memories - while Ms Lee had just recreated the role of Rosemary in the film version of "How to Succeed in Business," a few years earlier my Mom and I enjoyed a performance of the show during its original Broadway run. Mom was big on waiting at the stage door after shows and she asked for Ms Lee's autograph. She signed my program and I will always remember how beautiful, vivacious, and gracious she was to a young guy who would go on to love the art form of the Broadway musical and regularly present such music on the radio. A fan forever, Ms Lee.
I just love to watch John Daly being pretty much forced to talk in circles. I think with the pencil sharpening guy, when Arlene Francis asks if it informs you of anything, and Daly actually whistles out, realizing that this is going to be a real tough determination to make, and express into words, is the funniest example of this little quirk that I've seen. OMG! Then when Michelle Lee starts asking a question and she has her pencil in her hand, and is waving it around! Too funny!
I cant believe Bennett didnt guess the first guest after he has been to the Caribbean for so many of his vacations. I can only assume he was distracted by her appearance.
I loved it when Ms Lee was twirling the pencil around and the audience cracked up. Too funny.
John Daly missed the "dolphin" reference by the fishing instructor as her segment was wrapping up. He thought she was referring to porpoises (i.e. mammals), when she obviously meant the sporting fish, the "dolphinfish", or mahi-mahi or Pompano (a specie of actual fish, not mammal), commonly referred-to by sport fisherman simply as "dolphin".
I hate that this show went off the air. It's one of those universal interest shows that would work anytime, anyplace, in any era. With all the old '50s and '60s game shows that have been dusted off and brought back in recent years, I'm frankly surprised that this one has not. I suspect part of the reason is that this show worked mostly because of the unique chemistry and characteristics of its moderator and panel regulars. And the fact that they brought a certain elegance and elan to the show, I think, is one of the ingredients that made this show very special and hard to replicate. Clearly, the syndicated versions of the '70s never quite measured up to the original John Charles Daly hosted version with Arlene, Dorothy and Bennett. Still, I have an idea of one news anchor (the same occupation of John Daly) who might bring a similar sensibility if they ever wanted to give it another go, since he not only has a similar elegance, but also a wicked sense of humor. I'm speaking of Brian Williams. But as for the other panel members, I'm not sure who's out there that would bring the right chemistry.
Late I am, as always, but I can see Brian being a good choice.
Brian Williams is a lying fraud. Don't put his name anywhere near that of John Charles Daly.
If you like this sort of show, you might enjoy British panel shows. QI is my personal favorite and you can find a number of episodes on YT if you don't want to pay for Britbox.
They did try to "bring it back". It was a total flop with dirty jokes and rude behaviour, it was a travesty and nothing like the beloved original WML.
@@maryblushes71895 - That kind of reboot would never work. Not of this show, anyway.
Ah, the inevitable anarchy of Groucho. That's why we love him.
Reva FoSho ikr. hard core. I have a friend like him, so stimulating
Overall this was a very good episode of WML.The first 2 contestants were very puzzling and Groucho Marx is one of the funniest men that was ever on earth.I'm a huge Marx brothers fan so I was very happy 2 c him on the show.
I actually own a soft cover copy of the Groucho Letters
I bought it a year ago, so many years after it was first published and they are amazing
Arlene asks if the pencil informs you of anything. The pencil does created information, but it does not, in and of itself, inform you of anything. The audience was ahead of John on this one and Mr. Daly gets a strike.
Michele Lee I remember she being one of my favorite beautiful actresses and I was only 8 years old at that time !!
Michele Lee will be 73 in June and continues to work! She was married to James Farentino from 1966 to 1983.
Both Michele Lee and Henry Morgan were excellent panelists. Morgan made funny remarks and was not intimidated by the situation of being on the show. Michele Lee asked good questions and was a real asset to WML, too bad she only appeared one more time after this.
What probably helped Morgan was that he was a panelist on I've Got A Secret for its entire run (1952-67).
Is this Michele Lee's first appearance on the show? She has dived right in and is a damn fine player!
Joe Postove Yes, and she made one more on May 7, 1967.
I liked Michele Lee. Not to mention, she is strikingly beautiful.
"Bravo, Giovanni," indeed! (The reference is to a Broadway musical from 1961-62 in which she co-starred with operatic bass Cesare Siepi.)
She was ok...
Had the hots for her when l was a kid.
The panelists through April 1967 who are still living as of 2020 are Woody Allen, Paul Anka, Joanna Barnes, Harry Belafonte, Jeannie Carson, Dick Cavett, Joan Collins, Anne Douglas, Jane Fonda, Anita GIllette, George Hamilton, Jack Jones, Aliza Kashi, Steve Lawrence, Michele Lee, Pia Lindstrom, Sue Oakland, Mort Sahl, William Shatner, Marlo Thomas, Pamela Tiffin, Dick Van Dyke, Betty White.
Kind of sad how short the list of living panelists keeps getting with each year. It tells how much time has passed since this show was on the air.
@@benfranklin9292 But the show is timeless !
Michele Lee referred to Bennett as "extremely handsome". While not quite, he did look amazing for a man nearly 70 at this point.
Joe Postove he is always sweet though
Henry Morgan had a look on his face like he was jealous...
I always thought he was handsome!
@@lynnsouth5174 YES!
I always thought highly of him and loved his amazing smile.
The audience's hilarious reaction to the "pencil" segment, with both Michele Lee and Henry Morgan brandishing pencils, brings to mind the Sept. 1, 1957 show in which panelist Ernie Kovacs, cigar in hand, was confronted with a woman who made cigars. ua-cam.com/video/DPAr8YEKdOQ/v-deo.html
Ol' Groucho loved his cigars!
From back when TV was worth watching.
I checked a couple of slang dictionaries about this: the audience reaction when Michele Lee asked the pencil sharpener "Do you put the lead in the pencil?" was uproarious (17:40), and I expected that the audience was thinking the same thing I was. Indeed, the slang sense of "that'll put lead in his pencil" meaning "that'll give him an erection" dates back at least to 1900. I don't know if it's still current, but it was when I was in school over forty years ago.
Neil Midkiff Lol. Still current if you like double entendres....
"Thanks". (I preferred to remain innocent about that one!)
@Just a Girl You're the one who used a four-letter word. I talked about normal human reactions and popular phrases in a mature way. I'm more disturbed about your comment's suitability for family discussion than I am about mine.
@Just a Girl Mulling your response over, I begin to be worried about your calling male physical reactions "sicko." I hope you will consider talking to your doctor or clergy person or other trusted counselor about your feelings about men, especially if you have any parental or teaching responsibility for boys and young men. It's of course a stretch for me to infer how you really feel from a short response, but if you mean what you say as I fear you do, you could seriously warp the personality of a youth and lead him to think of his own body as dirty. Remember that if men didn't get erections, none of us would ever have been born. I happen to believe that God created men and women as we are for the purposes of holy matrimony, not only to "be fruitful and multiply" but also to bond married couples together, and to me there's nothing sicko about that.
Neil Midkiff I'm pretty sure that the audience reaction to Michelle's question had nothing to do with an innuendo for getting erections. Despite that metaphor perhaps going back a hundred years, I think your interpretation of it is too modern. If it had been on the show a few decades later then certainly they would've made the most of the innuendo but not here. Innuendo does occur a lot on this show but not as far as erections, I don't think. Not in 1967 on a CBS peak viewing broadcast, Sunday night.
Even Groucho's desperately unfunny signature on the board goes above all their heads.
Can't help noticing that Groucho's hair miraculously returned following his 1963 appearance.
2:15: "And here is a magnificent specimen of a rapidly-vanishing breed, the television panel moderator." Surely Bennett's reference to the impending cancellation?
It was stolen. She was mugged.
Selkie Seal You're talking about Arlene's pendant. Wrong thread though.
Yep. I was wondering when they'd sneak something in.
Groucho makes me smile the moment I see him.
This was one of the last shows of tbe original run (CBS 1950-1967) and by tnis time was broadcast in color (you can see the lighting and makeup difference even in this black and white kinescope).
The one and only Groucho Marx,
Had great one liners..
The director clearly earned his pay with the pencil guy! #MicheleAndHerPencil
G-T liked Henry Morgan on WML because he brought the unexpected to the program. He also brought a certain amount of rude. "What kind of job is that for a growing boy" he says to the professional pencil sharpener. I suppose the kid could ask him the same question about hosting "Monitor."
In my opinion Morgan was easily the worst panelist ever. Not in terms of guessing, but in terms of rudeness. Introducing Michelle Lee in terms of sex was rude already.
@@richatlarge462 He was real creepy !!
This aired when I was 2 months shy of 3 years old. And 2 years before Michele Lee was in The Love Bug. That's when I became her fan!
Henry and Groucho in the same program. The sarcasm weighs right heavy.
Michele Lee starred in every episode of the CBS Primetime Soap, "'Knot's Landing".
In this period, both Arlene and Henry worked weekends on NBC Monitor radio.
Arlene isn't wearing her diamond heart necklace in this episode!
This looks like a diamond-studded Iron Cross, I knew Arlene was a Nazi!
There were several occasions when she seemed to be without it, including:
2/7/60: On this show (Julie Andrews/mystery guest, Martin Green/guest panelist), Arlene wore a low-neckline dress and 4 or 5 strings of a thick costume necklace. The costume necklace might’ve concealed her heart necklace, or she might not have been wearing it. Anyway, it wasn’t visible.
6/5/60: On this episode (Bobby Darin/mystery guest, Mel Torme/panelist), Arlene wore a high neckline dress and another thick costume necklace (similar to, but not the same as, the one worn on 2/7/60), either of which might’ve concealed her heart necklace. Or, she might not have been wearing it. Again, it wasn’t visible.
10/28/62: This was one "What’s My Line" episode (Tony Martin/mystery guest, Peter Ustinov/panelist) on which Arlene Francis clearly was NOT wearing her usual diamond heart necklace pendant. This night, she wore a pearl necklace only, and her heart-pendant couldn’t have been covered by it.
12/9/62: Another WML episode without Arlene’s heart-necklace (Bobby Darin/mystery guest, Alan King/panelist). This time, she wore a low neckline dress, and clearly was wearing no necklace at all.
10/25/64: On this episode (James Garner/mystery guest, Tony Randall/panelist), she wore four-row string of pearls that did not appear to cover the diamond heart-pendant on its usual thin gold chain. However, on her left side of the pearls, a diamond heart-pendant appeared to have been attached, without its chain, as an add-on adornment to the pearl necklace. The pendant could’ve been the one from her famous necklace, without its chain.
4/23/67: And, apparently, this episode (Groucho Marx/mystery guest, Michele Lee/panelist). Here, she’s wearing a sleeveless black dress with large white polka dots. In the center of the high neckline of the dress, she’s wearing a brooch that resembles a Maltese (or Florian) cross. Her diamond heart necklace might possibly be concealed beneath the top of her dress, except that there’s no chain visible around her neck. So, apparently not tonight.
Nothing tops Groucho's 1959 appearance as panelist,one of TV's all-time classic 1/2 hours.
John Thompson is f'in cute as all get out and Michele Lee is also f'in cute as all get out and funny and charming to boot.
24:35
This caught me off guard haha.
It would be so out of place to hear that on any formal form of television in today’s society.
Groucho is the Best!😊😂👌
You have to hand it to Henry Morgan for catching on to why the audience was laughing when Michele Lee was waving around her pencil. He's not one of my favorite personalities, but by no means as bad a panelist as some have suggested.
He's brilliant, easily the funniest panelist since Fred Allen.
Zed Dravot Oh wow.....I compared him to Fred Allen in another comment. Same vibe, same manner. I hate them both!
@@davidsanderson5918 Hey, at least we're consistent, even if our perspectives are polar opposite!
I thought Henry was trying too much to be funny. Remember Henry's first appearance as a panelists on WML where he really earned the wrath of everybody else in the room? I am surprised to see him again on WML but he was toned down here!
"Du ser mycket bra ut" (You are very handsome), said the Fishing Instructor in Swedish to Bennett. :) 11:35
I was a bit impressed that John Daly knew "Tack så mycket" as a response to a compliment such as "Du ser mycket bra ut". Most Americans don't even know that much Swedish.
ToddSF 94109 John was an educated man. I am sure he knew how to say 'Thank you' in several languages. She spoke Swedish with a thick, typical American accent. Nowadays the most American tourists I meet can say "Tack så mycket". It's very pleasant when one makes the effort and learn some phrases when going abroad.
I had to learn more than "Tack så mycket" because I visited and met many cousins of my mother who lived in Dalarna and Värmland, all born from 1915 through the 1920's. They didn't have any English to speak of. Nice to be able to say something at a coffee bar such as "Kan jag be att få en kopp kaffe med grädde, tack," and to understand how much I had to pay when the cost was given to me in Swedish. Also good when reading signs while driving a rental car, or reading signs posted when riding a train, etc. As I've said before, there just aren't any nicer people, in general, than Swedes, and I think most Swedish people are kind and polite, much like Canadians.
ToddSF 94109 My guess is that John knew some Swedish words or phrases because his mother-in-law was a Swedish-born woman. It turns out that his mother-in-law left Sweden when she was an infant to come to America with her family but my guess is that she knew some Swedish words or phrases and taught them to John. Swedish, after all, was never widely taught or widely spoken in America so I doubt very much that John learned some Swedish words or phrases on his own.
ToddSF 94109 That's nice to hear. :) But in my experience the Americans (or New Yorkers since I only have visited New York) are more polite and friendly than Swedes. If you bump in to someone in Sweden when walking, be sure to be ignored or hear "Watch yourself!" - never expect an excuse or "Sorry". When I was in NY I constantly heard "Sorry sir" or "I'm so sorry sweetie" or "Sorry man" even from young thugs on the subway.
Beautiful Lady. I wonder where she is now.
*_FISHING INSTRUCTOR_*
*_SHARPENS PENCILS IN PENCIL FACTORY_*
Not sure if you remember me bugging you about a grocery clerk episode and one with pencils, but this is the pencil one. Thanks so much for writing these. You have no idea how helpful it is.
The second contestant must have been pretty sharp to....oh never mind.
I don't have any doubt as soon as Groucho entered inside, everybody knew who was the MG (or could have been Ernie). His cigar was a clear give-away!
Michele was dynamite In How to Succeed In Business Without Really Trying
We always make a big deal of Henry Morgan's interruption of Bennett Cerf's introduction in July 1967, but here tonight Arlene interrupted Henry's introduction.
David Soulier Yeah but it was a justified and witty interruption. Morgan's an asshole anyway.
Right as he was making a creepy remark. Well done, Arlene.
Everytime I use a pencil I will remember this for the rest of my life 😂🤣💖💯
Fer crying out loud. It's 1967, and John still hasn't learned that wood was once alive? Henry Morgan directly asked the pencil guy if the product *started out* living. How could John have allowed the contestant to answer No to a question worded that specifically? And as usual, no one objected at the end of the segment.
As we've discussed so many times before, it defies belief that plants aren't considered living things on WML. I think they use the terminology "growing" for plants rather than "living". That's not to mention all the other gaffes -- such as referring to oysters or lobsters or crabs as "fish", and calling a crab, shrimp, prawn or lobster a "mollusk" when those are crustaceans, and nonsense of that nature. Most panel members aren't knowledgeable in those areas with certain exceptions such as Tony Randall, who was bright and well-read about such things. Remember that time that Martin Gabel took umbrage because he was supposedly taught in his prestigious and expensive prep school that insects were in a completely different class from animals and not rightly considered animals? Ridiculous. I remain unimpressed with private prep school educations.
According to "our terms of reference," being alive implies mobility.
corner moose I honestly don't recall that standard ever being explained on any of these shows, defining life as mobility, but if it was ever explained, it was exceedingly rare.
They were free to decide on whatever standards they wanted to apply for the show, but not to presume the audience would understand the arbitrary standards without any explanation. If they were going to choose so thoroughly arbitrary and illogical a "term of reference", John should have clarified the WML "standard" every time the subject came up. How many times did we hear John explain that "special training" on WML was taken to mean college education? That's a whole lot less necessary to explain every time than the WML "rule" that plants are not alive because they don't move. Does that mean a Venus Flytrap is alive, but ordinary plants aren't?
Also, note that there was one show where Tony Randall raised a "point of order" directly questioning John on this, and John admitted on camera that there was no justifiable logical reason for considering only animals to be alive. It's just absurd, especially given how intelligent and well educated *all* of these folks were.
But as I've said, you don't need to be intelligent or well educated to know better than this. A three year old child knows that a plant is alive! :)
***** Yes, that's absolutely true, he was consistent. Consistently wrong. :)
But he was still the best, bar none.
I'd agree with that. John Daly was the best moderator ever, despite his quirks. His genial personality, sense of humor and verbal agility made that so.
Not one mention of how Groucho signed in, not with his own name but with a reference to the previous segment.
Back when celebrities were a lot brighter.
I thought Groucho's walk with his rear sticking out was done for comic effect in his films, but it seems that's the way he usually walks lol .
I heard somewhere that he EITHER had scoliosis or had polio as a kid and thats why upu always seem to watch him going forward deeply into his step, cuz it's actually kind of a lopsided limp with his left leg.
No, if you watch him move around the set on "You Bet Your Life", he walks quite normally.
Groucho was one of the funniest people to ever race the earth. We are so much better for having him, Harpo and Chico and, indeed, the entire Marx family.
wingsandash The handsome brother who couldn't do comedy at all was "Zeppo". He lasted through about 2 of their movies until they admitted to themselves that he didn't fit in.
P.S. : There was a fifth brother, Milton, nicknamed "Gummo" who didn't much like performing. I believe he pretty much became a talent promoter. He was the brother that Groucho said he was closest to because "he was a nice man, unlike Zeppo".
Daniel Fronc There was a sixth brother who died as an infant. I'm familiar with the family. But thanks for the info. 🙂
@@danielfronc4304 Actually, Zeppo was apparently very good at comedy & was frustrated at playing "straight man"👍
Henry Morgan checking out that caboose.
In the 1966-1967 playlist, there are no episodes between March 19, 1967 and this episode on April 23, 1967. Are those episodes lost? Were they maybe recorded on videotape only, and not on kinescope?
Update: The Mark Goodson Wiki site says that the March 26 episode exists at the Paley Center for Media, and that the April 9 episode is missing. Also, there is no episode listed for April 2, so apparently WML did not air on that date. But there is no note for the April 16 episode. So that explains some of the missing episodes, but I wonder if the April 16, 1967 episode is available anywhere?
Thank heaven that WML did not have this sponsor as a regular sponsor in the Hal Block era.
I recall an earlier episode where Henry Morgan interrupted Bennett Cerf when Mr. Cerf went into an extended introduction of John Day at the beginning of the show. I'd thought that was Henry Morgan's last episode, as if he'd been exiled for berating Bennett Cerf.
The episode with the tense introduction came after this one, not before. I haven't posted it yet.
Braedyn Kelley Groucho interrupted once, too. No one cared then.
That episode certainly should have been his last appearance. Morgan was rude and obnoxious, and I didn’t blame Cerf for being steamed. Morgan was an abrasive jerk.
The first woman is as beautiful as Groucho is a legend.
Micelle Lee has a 1960's "Star Trek" look.
As a whole, pencil lead, metal eraser holder, synthetic rubber eraser and wood. So no, but parts of it were at one time alive.
I agree, but I seem to remember that they never counted it as once Living.
At 14:09.... "Had it ever been living?"
Yes..... it was a tree.
Of course graphite is in there..... but seriously.
It seems that it remember it was a “rule” not to consider a tree as living. I could never agree with that, and I recognized that here.
WELL DONE ARLENE....with the 'that's slurred' interjection during Morgan's dreadful introduction of the next panellist. The audience mostly missed it but I heard ya!! Nice one.
He was plain creepy!
That was an awesome comment by Arlene to cut him down to size just as he was creeping everyone out.
All of the wooden-clad pencils I've ever bought came with a completely blunt end and I've had to sharpen them myself, which is one reason I have a really good pencil sharpener -- it's something I couldn't do without.
The smell of a newly sharpened pen is something special.
Golf pencils always come pre-sharpened, and I have seen some in dollar stores that are, too. But I admit most pencils aren't.
Johan Bengtsson
It's a combination of the aromatic cedar they use for the wood in most pencils and the smell of ground graphite -- the so-called "lead" in the pencil being that particular form of pure carbon. I agree -- it's one of those interesting smell -- especially if you have one of those old-fashioned pencil sharpeners with a small crank you turn and the emptiable reservoir for the shavings. Nowadays, I have an electric pencil sharpener, which is very nice, but it doesn't generate the same aroma as the old crank-style ones.
ToddSF 94109 I have not sharpened a pen for years. Whenever I smell the scent it brings back memories from second grade.
We had crank-style pencil sharpeners in every classroom from kindergarten through 12th grade. My parents also put one in the broom closet at one end of our kitchen. That smell does bring back memories. However, I have been buying Bic disposable mechanical pencils for years with a plastic body and five or six graphite "leads" inside -- you just push the eraser at the top to extend more lead as it wears down, so I, too, haven't sharpened a pencil for a long time. It has been so convenient just to push the button for more lead if it breaks or wears down.
The wolf whistles were so funny. I thought it made WML ,(more so in the earlier years), sound like an old strip club.You just wouldn't get that on any show today.
I was Smashed this Afternoon Classic You can't say that Today.
I think you can say that today? I certainly was.
Something seems familiar to me. Are the people who did the cartoon at the beginning the same as those that did the show "Rocky and Bullwinkle"?
Yes!
Arlene has raised Henry Morgan from a curmudgeon to a raconteur. I wonder if he said anything to her? he could be ornery.
"The gentle laxative for the whole family"
Ah... the late, great announcer, Johnny Olson. I miss hearing his voice.
To me, on first glance, the first contestant, Elisabeth Christenson, bears quite a resemblance to Meredith MacRae.
And, when his line is being shown on screen, I think that, from a straight ahead view, the second contestant, John Thompson, bears more than a passing facial resemblance to actor Burt Ward.
In all of my 64 years, I can't recall ever seeing pre-sharpened pencils in stores! Maybe my "misspent" youth has something to do with it. We may never know.
They do sell pencils pre-sharpened.
It's been decades since I played golf, but I recall golf pencils always being pre-sharpened.
Colored pencils are often sold pre-sharpened in boxed sets.
I was buying them both sharpened and unsharpened in 1967 for school. The following year we were issued cheap Bic pens, and never saw pencils after that. My teacher announced “your years of erasing your mistakes are now behind you”.
I note that Arlene is wearing a bejeweled cross pattée as a pendant from a delicate chain in this episode instead of her famous diamond-encrusted heart pendant. I wonder if the stones aren't colored -- they look darkish in black-and-white rather than white as diamonds look.
ToddSF 94109
Is it on a chain? I thought it might be a brooch (pinned on), with the chain from her diamond pendant (which might have been hidden beneath the collar of the dress) visible as well. But I could be wrong.
I suppose her heart pendant could have been hidden by the high neckline of her dress, so that the cross pattée was actually a brooch pinned high on the dress right in the center, so that the chain and the cross weren't actually joined. Hard to tell. I, too, could certainly be wrong -- I was just going with how it appeared to me, but I see now it could be just the way you suggest. I find the bejeweled cross interesting whichever way it actually is.
I wish Bennett had not zeroed in on Groucho so quickly. He could have let the questioning make at least one pass around the panel before narrowing it down.
He tried to. Groucho gave it away by using his real voice. My guess is that Groucho wanted to be guessed quickly so he could talk about his new book.
@@loissimmons6558 Groucho gave away his identity as soon as he entered the room with the cigar smell. Or it could have been Ernie!
I wonder when the last time was that someone called him Julius?
I think Margaret Dumont called him that.
@@williamneumyer7147 That would make sense, with her being prim and proper and all. 🙂
I've been around since 1959 and I have yet to ever buy a pencil that came from the factory already sharpened.
Michele Lee gets a barrelful of laughs as she waves her pencil around while asking the pencil guy questions. Is this the same show, or was there another where a panelist also waved a pencil around while questioning a pencil person. I seem to remember that.
+Joe Postove Perhaps you're thinking of the panelist drinking water from his glass while Qing a guest who sold bottled water.
Barry Kendrick Probably, Barry!
+Barry Kendrick If we're remembering the same episode, it was the other way around: the bottled water salesman teasingly sipped from the water glass while being questioned.
They had more than one water salesperson on as a challenger. I recall it happening both ways. But there's a mountain of episodes to search through.
Recorded on April 16, 1967.
What happened to March 26, April 2, 9 and 16. Were they on hiatus for an entire month?
Lost episodes.
John Daly’s moderation was a bit off this episode. Fishing involves a mechanical part (the reel), pencils are part organic (tree)...
Groucho Is great !
Wow, I would love a job sharpening pencils when I was young.
20:05 I lost it 😂🤣😆
The fishing instructor used to catch dolphins? Was that before it was prohibited?
I noticed that too and cringed.
Mahi-mahi is a fish that's also called "dolphin". Hopefully that's what she was referring to.
Henry should have gotten a yes - while fishing Is called a sport , It Is generally not considered a sport
Whole the guy with the cigar?
She's waiving the evidence around, the pencil, ha, ha. as if in a courtroom.
Was there a rule, that even though everyone knew who the MG was, his name HAD to be said by someone?
I think it was an unwritten rule yes.
And of course the other unwritten rule was that the panel should go around once before divulging the MG's name, a rule that was occasionally broken by the panel, and on this night, by the MG!
Phillips Milk Of Magnesia was like drinking liquid chalk. But it help the stomach.
Joe Postove Pure magnesia is better, and very effective too! ;)
Say.....what is magnesia, ma?
Joe Postove A very important mineral, comrade!
Magnesium Oxide (MgO).
I'm starting a discount amputation clinic.....
I'm calling it Half Off For Half Off.
What can I say. Groucho stole the show. Just like he did in every other appearance here.
This time, instead of ruining things for Claudette Colbert, he ruins his own mystery guest segment. No one remotely like him.
He was the best! One of the funniest comedians ever to have lived. :) I must watch some YBYL episodes now! :)
Johan Bengtsson
In some ways, Groucho reminds me of Robin Williams in that he was always "on" -- he would do anything to make people laugh and he seemed to live for doing that. Absolutely and always hilarious.
ToddSF 94109 It looked so easy when Groucho cracked jokes all the time in the conversation with John and the panel. He was never speechless. :) --- except once when the matador kissed him on the cheeks. :)
Johan Bengtsson
- He made a better mystery guest than a panelist, however, because, as a panelist, the show simply could not progress given his antics. Certain comedians as guest panelists just didn't work very well, because it was all about their comedy and not being a team player who was actually there to play the game. Even so, Groucho as a guest panelist was just hilarious.
3:21 ♥ Sweden here I come 🦁
The pencil sharpener deals in a products AND a service!
I suddenly want to learn to fish.
bennett just kept asking bad questions with the fishing instructor.
Michelle's pencil is classic.
The repartee between John & Bennett was delicious. "extremely handsome"! :-) :-)
23:28 wish I could remember what movie this is from when Groucho tells Chico" I'd like to join a club and beat you over the head with it". Classic.
I'm sure Cerf smelled the cigar
I find Henry Morgan's remark, "What kind of job is that for a growing boy?" tactless, at best, and really not at all funny. It seemed to make the guest feel uncomfortable & embarrassed.
doug w Hand over those pencils! I have not been in jail but the thought of "sitting" there is far less attractive than doing a boring job like sharpening pencils!
The show never did find a way to distinguish between a sport as a game and a sport as an outdoor activity. The panel was always misled by that.