The Good, Bad and Ugly of Fuel and Oil Additives | Tech Tactics Live
Вставка
- Опубліковано 10 тра 2024
- Subscribe: ua-cam.com/users/porscheclubof...
Visit: www.pca.org
-----------------------------------------
Lake Speed, Jr. spoke at this year’s Tech Tactics East, which is hosted by the Porsche Club of America. His topic was about whether or not to use fuel or oil additives in your engine. This is a fascinating presentation using examples of oil analysis he’s done with different oils and oil and fuel additives. You may be surprised at what you learn. If you’ve ever wondered whether these are worth the investment, you should watch this episode to become better informed.
#TotalSeal #TechTacticsLive #Additives
-----------------------------------------
Instagram: / porscheclubofamerica
Facebook: / porscheclubofamerica - Авто та транспорт
There are so many anecdotal opinions on the internet/ UA-cam. If you are a car guy, and you wanna respect someone with actual knowledge, Lake Speed Jr. is the Man !
Well said!
It’s ALL FACTUAL and that’s because Lake Speed is a man that loves or enjoys his job and he has expanded into more leanings or training from experience and backs himself up.
He is a dying breed of man who cares to share his knowledge.
THAT demands respect in my opinion.
This guy is a genius. I've seen him around a few different parts of the internet and he knows everything there is to know out there, it seems.
We would have to agree. Always a pleasure having him on.
I love his videos where he is with really smart, experienced guys, and they are learning so much from him. Just a brilliant guy.
He’s an idiot
Thanks to the Porsche Club for sharing this presentation. Getting granular helps push past marketing hype.
Our pleasure!
his presentation should've been longer also allow more time for questions and give them a microphone
Having someone with his knowledge is priceless he is answering so many questions that I've had for many years
Thank you for watching! We are glad it was helpful.
That was incredibly insightful! Thank you Lake for helping us navigate the sea of marketing misinformation and thank you to the PCA for making this available to everyone.
I was just thinking... the oil marketing is actually impossible because there are what: almost 3 dozen fuel formulations in the US alone? They can't possibly nail down blow-by effects on engines coast to coast in a one size fits all additive package. The differences might be small, but they are there.
Seeing the fuel dilution drop from 2.5 down to .93 just from a bottle of fuel treatment is so cool!
Thanks for watching!
Frequency of adding this PEA based fuel additive?
This
on motorcycle every 3 months or 3k km....
Fuel additives might be ok for Port Fuel Injected engines, but not GDI engines. The Redline fuel treatment showed in the video, cleaned a small spot at the point of the GDI spray on top of the piston. The cheap base carrier oil makes up 90% of the cleaner, oxidizes quickly and leaves a black, carboneous, gummy residue in the chamber. This means problems for the valves, when reversion occurs and really bad for compression and oil control rings. I have borescope images before and after, showing this problem. I had another friend do the same, in his GDI engines. Borescope images were the same.
You should check out hit video on valvoline restore and protect, specifically deals with gdi
You realize he was talking about regular port injection to this seminar?? He has videos on his channel about fuel additives and GDI. Especially using only top tier fuel
@bigdaddymak1439 he doesn't make a distinction between either. Don't add oil to the gas and keep gas out of the oil.
48:30 is the advice 99% of us need. Match the spec and viscosity called for by the factory.
If you're in the 1% that wants to spend a lot more money, probably defeating the point of avoiding engine repair costs, then do oil analysis throughout the life of the engine.
You didn’t see the B degree
In another video he says: for B student do all C student + chose synthetic engine oil also add the fuel additives PEA.
@@ibrahimqari9189 49:08 "Cs get degrees."
This guy was great. Thank you and thank you to PCA for being so awesome.
Tip for Lake during question and answers - Repeat the question or at least summarize it for the listeners that can't hear the question asked.
Most often you can guess what the question was based of the answer but not always.
Thank you Lake. Great presentation. My only question is the Ceratec was never tested alone. It was mixed w a flush which of course nullified any benefit of the ceratec. I would love to see how 'only' ceratec w the boron, Moly, small amount of zddp and calcium does mixed w a good oil and the the resulting wear metals. I am not a believer in additives either or trying to promote ceratec at all. But it does seem like that formulation (in ceratec) could' maybe' b an exception and help. But that is speculation not science. I would love to see a fair test w ceratec alone (mixed w a good oil) and look at wear metals and acidity/etc. Whatever the result is, is fine... But that's the only way to know. That's a fair question and scientific diagnostic thought process isnt it? I would really bet that if u did the wear metal test with just that liquid Moly flush... It would have come back w negative results. My guess is that it wasn't the ceratec that caused that. But maybe I'm wrong. Anyways... Just wanted to run that by u. I'm trying to b fair in my thinking and scientific w careful control groups and variables. Thanks Lake!
Engine flush should not have been combined with Ceratec. He should have tested Ceratec alone.
Did he mix them or the client 🤔
His customer did it he's just showing you oil sample results
Really enjoyed this lecture. It was fun!!! Next time, just give a microphone to the audience asking questions. Congrats and thanks to the organizers as well.
Noted!
I had a chemical flush guy come to our shop and try to sell engine flush. I told him that the one and only time that i used an engine flush on a 100k engine, it spun a bearing within 10k miles.
He said because if the 10k, it wasn't due to the flush. I believe otherwise.
Always great info, but please, please mic up the audience if they're throwing questions!
noted🫡
Or have the presenter repeat the question.
Great video Lake, easy to follow and very informative.
Thanks for watching. Happy to hear you enjoyed it.
I use Liquimoly TopTec 5w30 in a MK7 1.8TSI which is 502...I switched at 90k from 5w40 and Castrol to try and get to the 504.00, SP and newers standards like 229.52 which is mid-saps for GPF...I haven't done an oil analysis, but I'm curious beyond the marketing is it good oil? No issues by the way and consumption appears minimal if any...5k changes since 65k and about to cross 114k miles.
Speaking of ZDDP, some years ago I had discovered I had a flat tappet lifter that had too fast of a leak down rate and would cause a miss at lower engine speeds, I thought that was a good reason to change the cam and install all new lifters since I assumed the factory 350 GM cam would have wear but I think that just caused me to go down a bad rabbit hole as the factory cam was in perfect condition. So it was a comp cam I put in and they pushed their own ZDDP additive for flat tappet cams they sell. Well I started using the additive as directed and I will never know if it was that or just engine wear that ultimately caused a lower connecting rod bearing to fail and that was the end of that engine. I never did pull the comp camp to see what it looked like but had pulled the crank and con rod caps to inspect, other than the one that went to crap and had to wonder why the bearings looked as questionable as they did. I have refrained from ever using the rest of the ZDDP I had bought, however I have been using half the bottle of GM lifter additive ( so half the volume they call for ) at each oil change after installing a brand new engine from GM and should I be ... good question, its been running fine and may very well without putting the GM additive in.
Great video! Thanks for posting and sharing.👍
Glad you enjoyed it. Thanks for watching!
need an executive summary. good stuff though. i do send my oil samples for analysis, but i think once a year is good enough (considering in my track cars i change 2-3 times per year).
Is there a benefit of using pea fuel additives in a more concentrated dose than recommended?
Great video and information, is there a difference between the 10oz and 12oz Gumout all in one?
My only suggestion would be to repeat the crowd questions in the mic, or let them ask the questions in a mic.
noted
Great presentation! What is your opinion on Stabil?
Use the Techron Marine instead of Stabil it does more (longer stabilizer 2 yr plus has Techron which is PEA). I had advised Lake awhile back about the Marine product. By the way, you only use 1 oz per 10 gallons because it's that concentrated and can continually use it.
if a company like liqui moly or total like to get an oem approval like vw 502 ...they need to pay 5 to 10 millions dollars or thay pickup the additive from infeniem without paying ???
please clear for as this situation !!!
Priceless!
Thank you for watching!
geat tip on SP for low speed det!! THANK YOU!!
Happy to help!
Just a correction to something Lake said at 46 min. The ESP X3 is not the same as Supercar and not the same as the GM oil. ESP Formula 0W-40 was the GM oil that was rebranded Supercar 0W-40. ESP X3 is different and was designed by a separate group in a Porsche-sponsored program despite the fact that it does carry GM Dexos2 approval. I am sure they are somewhat similar oils but ESP X3 has higher HTHS and a different additive package.
Not gonna lie.. little triggered with the Ceratec image lol and then the BMW, liquimoly engine flush and Ceratec example.. I was like dude how’d you know all that about me😂
Thank you for posting this excellent presentation. I leave choice of oil in my 991 Turbo S to the technicians in the workshop at the Porsche Centre. Owning a 2000 BMW E39 M5 the choice of oil to suit its S62 V8 engine is a hard one. The MARKETING people at Castrol keep changing the formula of their 10W60 ‘Racing spec’ engine oil. My BMW specialist simply uses Mobil1 10W60 performance engine oil.
I would appreciate receiving some advice! (Which I am willing to pay for)
Do an oil analysis and find out
@@thestigisme2349 thank you - will do!
Do not use 10W60 , try 5W30
Good presentation, but really nothing here for those with air cooled engines. I've been running VR1 high zinc formula because it is reportedly better for my engine, but I was hoping for some info that would help with testing that idea.
VR1 high zinc is needed in air cooled Porsche and VW engines because they are flat tappet engine designs designed. The newer water cooled Porsche engines didn't use flat tappets.
@@mikedx2706 It's needed for small air-cooled engines too (portable generators, lawn mowers, power washers and other fast, hot running engines).
I use Archoil in all my vehicles, one of which is a 911. I had an bit of a screeching coming from the engine. Subtle thing, intermittent. Stated using Archoil additive and the sound went away. My cars crank over faster and get superior gas mileage.
im reading here recently about C40 spec oils required for high RPM engines (GT3, GT4RS, GT3R, etc). What's up with that?
The early analysis seems to indicate that ESP X3 0W-40 and C40 GT 0W-40 are the same oil or very similar. The German rumor is that the new ESP X4 oil that carries API SP has an additive that is not compatible with the DLC coated cams in the GT engines, so they will continue using the current ESP X3 oil which is renamed and has a separate specification created to avoid confusion.
Thanks but it would have been helpful if we could hear the questions from the audience.
For sure. Thanks for the feedback. We’ll be handing a microphone to questioners for the next Tech Tactics presentations we record.
Should you use engine restore to fill in cylinder scratches
Use Oil Extreme Concentrate.
Engine Restore is shockingly good at reducing oil consumption and visible smoking in junk, worn out engines specifically with bad rings and cylinder bores.
NOTHING bonds to cylinder walls. They are coated with oil.
Must watch!!!
Glad you enjoyed it.
OK, I could use some clarity here. At 30:47 minutes in, Lake presents an example of a BMW engine that showed good results using Liqui Moly 5w40, then shows a follow up where the owner used Liqui Moly 5w40 + Ceratec + LM Engine Flush. Lake states the three components were used at the SAME TIME (30:54). Is that correct? Read the bottle much? The flush is only used for 10-15 minutes at idle just before being removed with the old oil before an oil change. Did the BMW owner specify if they changed out the old oil with the engine flush in it? Did they do a proper oil change and add the Ceratec only with fresh oil? Of course the numbers and wear will jump significantly if the engine flush is still in there.
Lake - will you please clarify? And great presentation! Thx!
That was my thought exactly. If the Engine Flush is staying in there, of course it's going to wear the Engine more. There is good reason why it's supposed to stay in the oil for 15 Minuten and RPM at idle. You don't wanna Put load in it while the Engine Flush is in there... I have Had good experiences with Ceratec and 5w 40 in my Volvo S70 2.4NA 170 HP 488T KM. I noticed That it Had better throttle Response and some more Power and smoother running Engine. I added it in to the Engine 5T KM after i did an oil Change...
My dad also Had good luck using it in his VW Sharan.
Greetings
@@clearclearerjesus4717 Yup, I use Liqui Moly Leichtlauf High Tech SAE 5W-40 on my 2017 Macan GTS. I have used the Engine Flush and Ceratec on four engines. On my BMW N52 engine, it made a very noticeable difference in sound and smoothness. Same for my wife's Lexus IS350. Both of those cars were at about 130k miles when treated. I did not notice any difference on the Macan at 56k miles, and the other engine is a Toyota 1.8 liter in a Pontiac Vibe - it's a very basic car and a bit of a rattle-trap.
@@clearclearerjesus4717 Also, note that the viscosity on Lake's chart dropped into the caution zone for the second test. Is that a reflection of the Engine Flush? The Ceratec? Both?
Yeah his research, excuse me experience is incomplete. This would have been complete if he would have included Ceratec and BG.
It really does not matter. Engine oil additives are snake oil. If there were benefits to be had by throwing in a ton of relatively cheap additive, OEMs would already be doing it because lower friction lowers fuel consumption and lower wear means they can lower the viscosity and therefore get lower fuel consumption.
I’ve used oil tested my diesel truck. Amsoil oil with ceratec additive. 6 oil changes and 60,000 miles. Never anything negative.
It would be the same or better without wasting your money on ceratec. 60k miles is nothing.
That’s one the best additive in the world.
I swear by it
unless you done oil analysis
2-4% Mos2 to the oil in old engines is fine Army does the same
nahhh synthetic oil so good for that.... if you use old oil too....but if you used today's oil.... not good idea....
I just use what Porsche recommends: Mobil1. I have a 991.2.
I have what I hope is a simple question. I am a firm believer in more oil changes more often than what may be given by the manufacturer. The thing I’m interested in is there any downside to oil changes to earlier than recommended like say three to four thousand miles when the oil is able to go ten or so thousand and when with recycling oil and cost is not an issue.
Absolutely no downside other than the cost of more frequent fluid changes.
I think the only downside (other than the cost of changing often) is if there is oil in the filter. Always prelube the filter to prevent dry starts. I pour oil in the filter if on my other cars other than the Lexus, which I press the start button with the gas petal down to prelube gently tge Lexus.
I couldn’t agree more with the statements I guess I was wondering if some of the different components of the additive package are time initiating like say zddp is changing more often not giving a do they need the time to each work into doing their specific job or would all the individual additives do their part as they go through a normal heat cycle. So would more frequent changes not give any part of additive package the time to say activate and do its job within the mix.
Why doesn't any tester ever go over the BG additives? Good luck finding it, I would love to see it.
Because BG is Snake Oil, the only reason dealers push those products is because BG gives spiffs to the techs and service writers to sell it.
@AJ-bp9th Testing would be nice to see it. It's mind-boggling that you can't find it.
Lab analytics cost money and some things just aren’t worth the time or money
@@svgs650r that doesn't add up.
@@realdeal5883 of course it does
I’ve been doing everything Lake said not to do :(
We are glad this video was helpful! Now you know.
Lake Speed jr!
He has a YT channel!!!
FYI Petronas Malaysia makes their own base oil and additive
Man I was hoping he was going to test a car with mystic marvel in the oil.
I am tracking him from video to another to learn from him real world stuff
7:14 7:18 LAC = *_Least Additive Concentration_*
Steve Morris Racing Engines needs your help; he is putting Rev-X additive in very high end, very expensve Engines!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Plenty of great engine builders that don't know anything about oil chemistry
cant hear the questions very well.
He repeats every question….
@@carrerados not all of them..
I have known that General Motors oil life monitors are superior. One of the few things General Motors actually makes that are superior. The problem I have with General Motors is I've taken apart several LS motors, and when you have an average ring gap of 30,000. That is way too large of a gap. Your oil is not going to last very long and you're going to lose a lot of it. There's no reason why a 5.3 or a 6.0 should have anything larger than an .018 to 0.020 ring Gap. Total seal Rings would help tremendously. But that top ring still needs a much tighter gap. They do it for the fact that they're making these engines by the thousands. But if you can make it in 30 thou by the thousands, you can make it in 20 thou by the thousands.
In addition, you made the comment on another video that fr3 did not do anything but to thin the oil. And the reason I have used very minimal amounts of fr3 a couple of times is precisely because Gale Banks has found that it offers less parasitic drag in the application of adding to your differential oil. What did Gale Banks miss.
Exactly what is in fr3. Something you did not tell us. Is it only a very thin base oil or is there something actually in it that provides some sort of a service to the oil.
And what about the additive link kite which is used in almost all aircraft internal combustion applications, and has been known to work for years. And that is what we now call zMAX. What does zMAX actually do. According to my understanding it actually soaks into the metal and helps keep carbon from sticking and keeps it soluble so that it can be rinsed out of the engine. Which should, reduce wear?
Presenter should always repeat the questions from the unamplified audience.
Is there a TL;DR available? Lol
1) PEA is good, 2) oil additives not needed, 3) test your oil 🙂
@@Hoster987 Thanks for this! (What is PEA?)
His own channel has the tldr
Lake, when recording you need to repeat questions from the audience.
noted
Summary please
I guess you just have to watch the whole video😂
Follow the guidance in your owner's manual, or pay more and get oil analysis with professional advice.
The first 2 minutes summarizes. Don't mess with your oil. No oil additives. Only fuel additives.
@@bobstitzenberger18346:33 6:58 And the fuel additive should be PEA (4 brands to choose from).
So if I understand what he is saying, companies like Amsoil don't really have the resources to properly test their oils to the same standard as the big guys.
I find it hard to believe that Amsoil doesn't test their oils to the same standards as as any of the big guys.
@@wally6193 Amsoil can probably conduct many tests and does have some engines in their lab. However, no one outside of the majors (Mobil, Shell) or additive package mfgs like Infineum, Lubrizol, Afton, etc. can do the full suite of ASTM + API/ACEA + OEM tests. Most boutique oil manufacturers don't even do any real testing in engines and just start with a pre-approved additive package.
@@chrisbradley3224 Okay, so does that put Pennzoil, Redline, RP, Castrol and a few others in the same category, I'm guessing yes. I've used Amsoil for almost 20 years in my 4.7l 4R, the engine ran the same since day 1, actually I changed all of the lubes in it to Amsoil. Same with the RX350, both with Amsoil SS.
@@wally6193 No, Castrol and Pennzoil are BP and Shell. Everyone else, yes.
@@chrisbradley3224 right I forgot Pennzoil was BP or are they Shell?
Bravo
Thanks for watching!