Is There a Future Beyond Lelouch?
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- Опубліковано 7 вер 2024
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There's been a debate for years about whether Code Geass can continue on without Lelouch.
Some suggest that Code Geass is exclusively Lelouch's story.
Thus the themes of the series are based on him.
The other side is fine with stories without Lelouch given the scope of the universe.
In this video, I discuss both sides and give my take on this topic.
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It seems like this debate will never end where do you guys stand can Code Geass continue without Lelouch yes or no?
Nope
no, code geass is nothing without lelouch, just another mecha show.
@@LightYagami406 I agree 💯
I stand on Code Geass continuing with it’s alternate timeline stories with new characters because it only greatens the cast of Code Geass we already have, Lelouch will still be the best character which is fine but disregarding other pieces of writing that still bring out some connections to the original story is bit ignorant, Akito and Resurrection are both examples of people having such misdirected views on them as individuals works. Akito is side story and spinoff taking place in the original timeline between the gaps of season 1 and 2 although it does go over lot of things regarding Lelouch as a character such as what happened to hime after end of r1, akito the exiled creates new cast and plot all on its own as well, and I think the writing of akito excluding Lelouch as julius Kingsley is masterful all on its own. From original plot concept for a mecha, while also creating new setting thus extrapolating on previous world building of the code geass universe/world, and also adding a new perspective of characters who use geass for reasons that are entirely new rather than carbon copied or reused by former. Resurrection timeline itself is misinterpreted and misinformed as film series made to be a cash grab when goro taniguichi and Ichiro okouchi both explained how they’re making it in response for fans who fantasized about Lelouch having a happier ending and shipped with Lelouch and CC somewhat, aside from the cause of its creation, people assume that resurrection and it’s events somehow contradict or retcon the original timeline of code geass where in the end through zero requiem Lelouch created world peace by ending the current war in the world in a realistic fashion since what Lelouch created is more than just world peace, its a new system of leadership for nations all across world where each nation and their respective leaders can work together to deal with any new issues that threaten to disrupt peace and it makes it easier to deal with wars and conflicts throughout nations in the world. People made unrealistic expectations as they wanted to think that as CG R2 ended war and conflict can never occur again and that Lelouch created an eternal and never ending peace, which is plain asinine when code geass via Lelouch himself is telling us how he never wanted a “forever” as he wants the world to also continue and change and change for the better however in order to have yang you need to yin to balance it and Lelouch who sought the future doesnt want a stagnant and eternal present like how Schneizel wanted peace to happen aka be forced upon humanity through fear. Another thing resurrection film gives us yet another perfect ending for Lelouch and CC leaving it with more interpretational and open ending for the audience implying they’re staying together forever as somewhat of lovers. I think the ending is very fitting for both as well as touching and off fan servicey in a mature and professional manner and though this ending is no match for zero requiem and og cg story ending its still should be well appreciated in my opinion.
Man knows what he speaking and I 100% agree with the other characters having more story and loulouche not showing up as often as I enjoyed the other one where he is Kingsley and causes chaos but I liked the characters in their and it shows how they still don’t like people who aren’t in the same situation
I think it’s similar to the whole “Ripley needs to be in every Alien movie” argument. When in reality we’re talking about a rlly interesting fictional world and a great opportunity to provide a different point of view within that world. We all love Lelouch but imo he’s had his day, he got the bittersweet ending and then the happy ending.
Yeah but he pretty much defined code geass. Without him...its not really code geass. Even the name of the show fits the ending of his character as he had both code and geass
Yes, Lelouch's story has finished. He deserves a break.
@@LuciferArc1why is no one replying to my comment? My previous comment is right underneath yours.
As a Lelouch fan, I really enjoyed the Akito series because of Lelouch's role, but I wish it was slightly longer.
Sure I like the main cast, Yukiya and Leila specifically the most, but seeing more of Britannia, and it's wars to see more of what Lelouch was fighting against and for was there. It still relates to him, and connects to him, that's also why I really liked Oz and I REALLY like Marrybel as well. Code Geass can revolve around Lelouch yet also explore different stories at the same time. I feel like focusing more on what Lelouch did to the world, and constantly mentioning his name, or the name of Zero, is a good way to help make Lelouch fans feel more like he's there. An overbearing, larger than life pressence, that even after death still persists.
I’m a HUGE fan of Akito the Exile, and I believe that Geass can truly be the main.
It really fleshed out Europe.
It is proven that it can be done kinda.
I love Akito too personally I think it needed a 24 episode to fully flesh out the European battle.
Yes
The truth is that I think it's very shameless that they revive Lelouch and they're not even going to use him. I'd like to see more of the world of Code Geass though. Like Suzaku in his new life as Zero or Akito and the rest of the Wyvern squad.
Well that and Lelouch is what defined code geass and its themes. Although to be fair suzaku did as well. That duo is what made the series complete
@@LuciferArc1yes, but Lelouch's story is finished now and he deserves a break.
@hollyscahill3325 yes. The show should have remained finished
@@LuciferArc1I know, but I wish people would stop wanting Lelouch to come back for this new series. If Lelouch isn't in the new Code Geass series, he's not in the new Code Geass series. Just be grateful it's coming back.
Lelouch is important, yet his personal story is over now. You can still tell stories (good, average or bad) without him in the protagonist role (albeit he could have a cameo). Akito had mixed results, but I still liked parts of it and that isn't the only possibility. Adapting Oz could have been neat, although it was too closely connected to a story we already knew. Resurrection was mostly fanservice, but I enjoyed it as perhaps the last time we'll see the whole cast together. It also resolved the Lelouch dilemma and sent him into retirement by the end of the film, which was necessary. As for your suggested Evangelion comparison, I think there's only a very specific subplot, the Emperor's big plan and Marianne's secret, where the two shows had any relevant similarities. Everything else was very different.
He didnt retire at the end of the movie. LL and CC were going out to find the shards.
@Allelujah19 Sure, that's the in-universe reason. What I meant is he won't be Zero anymore, giving up the role to Suzaku once again, and isn't going to be the central focus of any future story. Finding the shards is almost like an endless quest, if you think about it.
Yes I think it is definitely possible for the story to continue without Lelouch. The issue is the first original seasons revolved around Lelouch. So everyone associated code geass and lelouch as one in the same. Like doctor who always needing a doctor or James Bond needing James Bond for it's movies. Plus seeing how well written the original seasons were with the newest content not matching it's level it's hard for someone to look pass lelouch and see code geass as it's own universe. Which can stand on its own without Lelouch. I feel even the writers themselves fall to this trap of needing lelouch. Hence why they ressurected him the latest movie. I am eager to see where they take this new set of episodes and explore this post zero requiem universe created
I'm a diehard lulu fan, but i believe the idea that "his story" is over is very lukewarm and basic. I believe there is even more potential in there, but the focus should be on Geass itself, not on Lulu himself. Lulu and CC teaching us the viewers more about Geass, them discovering the world through a Frieren type season or 2 seasons could be super fun.
I see people praising that anime all the time why exactly is it so well regarded?
I haven't watched it yet
@@MyMediaChops Oh well, i thought the same till I did see it, dw, i won't spoil anything but go watch it and you'll see how the way it's structured can happen in a future CG season too, you'll prolly agree wtih my idea ! :)
Man I can see an LL and CC story as Frieren, but with Knightmare Frames and Geass. If they're gonna milk stories from them, then I believe it should come with new robots, too.
I believe that should be the main excuse to milk on CG, too 😂🤣
You should definitely check out, the Exclusive Extended PV that was leaked. It gives hints that Lelouch might have some kind of role in the series since this character called Sakuya Sumeragi, you might recognise her last name since it's the exact same last name of a known character from the Lelouch movies /series, says the exact same thing Lelouch says in the Resurrection movie. And yes Sakuya Sumeragi is the Geass user of this series
At least it does suggest he was involved in the past of the story.
Not including Lelouch doesn't just risk failure to capture the core appeal. It also risks messing up his character/story. Lelouch is passionate and megalomaniacal, even if he's matured through resurrection he still has a lot of people and ideals that he cares about a lot.
He's doing Geass stuff with CC, but his absence eventually makes you wonder why he isn't involved as the scale increases. It's sad if he's no longer driving forward his own story and involving himself in consequential things.
I really doubt they can make more characters as iconic and dynamic as Lelouch. I'll be pretty forgiving if they make it fun and don't force you to imagine Lelouch has retired to a random cottage and has no will to interact with and affect the world...
Smaller appearances like Akito are fine as long as they can show a believable development of the character. And Lelouch should be up to some cool shit!
I don't need Lelouch to return or even be a main focus(because its not crazy to think he will show up to some capacity as he is now an immortal demon lol)
But i would like to see that *A* Zero is still leading the Black Knights and inspiring people, obviously depending on the the timeline this would have to be a completely new person under the mask and the world would know that this Zero couldn't be the same person they believed it was during Lelouch's/Suzaku's time, but thats okay because Zero is a Symbol and all it takes is a capable person to take up the mask next and keep the "illusion" going.
On one hand, I understand that Lelouch is just that iconic as a Code Geass protagonist and how he's pretty much an irreplacable component of the story itself.
On the other hand, I completely agree that Code Geass should further expand itself in a similar vein to Gundam, where it could explore many settings, stories and themes surrounding the franchise.
My wish is that Roze would not only have a compelling story as the main seasons and serve as a gateway for newer fans to get into Code Geass, but also attract older fans by having LL and CC's presence felt by the characters in the story, as well as having them work from behind the scenes so they could still have Roze's main characters do the heavy lifting.
Lastly, if Code Geass would still be its creators' cash cow for many years to come, then they should primarily rely on the Knightmare Frames as their main excuse to do so. Like come on, those giant robots could still worth a dime, especially when they're made into toys. 😆😆😆
Continue the story on a smaller scale following up on the movie ending. C2 and lelouch travel together to try and find the remaining geass users, explore their relationship, and get into trouble on a smaller scale. The idea of c2 and lelouch trying to now live a somewhat normal life but keep encountering the ghosts of the past seems like a perfect sequel to me
We love lelouch, however it has ended
We have to face the reality
I wonder if in the other series, lelouchs intentions being revealed to the world
I mean it would be fun but
How will the people people will percieve it?
When their whole world view was shaken?
When they can finally live in peace after many years of misery but that peace was just temporary?
Kinda looking forward to the other series that doesn't involve lelouch. He may not be in it personally but but just his presence in the background is enough
Well its not going to do well since the trailer got mix to bad reactions. They are curious about it but people want to know where Lelouch is and if this is part of the movie timeline or the series timeline.
My personal problem with a lot of the side content is that a lot of it doesn't have the same feeling as the original series or it has parts that ruin the world building (which in itself wasn't one of Code Geasses strenghts once you try to look at it more detailled). As an example, a lot of the side content portray Britannia far too different then the main series, to the point of depicting Britannia, the same empire that commited massacre after massacre without feeling bad about it in R1, the same empire which has racism in it's policies, as the good guy, which simply feels off. Especially when the creators try to make you feel sympathy with characters that cause those massacres.
Another thing that simply rubs me wrong in some of the side content is that they completely throw away any rules of Code and Geass that were shown in the original series. As an example Renya, suddenly Geass powers aren't restricted to mental powers anymore, now they are your 24/7 superpowers. Or how suddenly things like those knightmare mosters exist, and those things simply don't feel like Code Geass. Or with ressurection, in which some geasses can now affect Code bearers, and can revert time.
And that is without mentioning that a lot of characters also feel like completely different characters in the side content and especially the ressurection universe. And I mean that not in a good way.
My problem with the Roze series, for me Code Geass ended with R2. There was absolutely no need for a Sequel. The only thing the sequel can probably do is spoiling the original ending of Code Geass.
It depends. For me the truth is all nations will have both good and bad people. Britannia's empire isn't good, in general, but they can have individuals such as Euphemia and others who had good intentions. This applies even to terrible governments in the real world, so that would also be the case with Britannia.
Lelouche fans wants a tactitioner MC similar to lelouche
Not another suzaku clonr that makes it feel like gundam
I do like Code Geass even beyond Lelouch, but I think there's a reason so much of the community focused on Lelouch. It was his character that kept the action more than just smashing action figures together without devolving into nonsensical philosophy that 90% of the fanbase does not care about.
You need characters that can keep that feel without feeling like knock offs, and that's where I think the trouble lies. Which is why I have said and will say they need to start small with Rose before building out, something more personal and understandable to stand on it's own not going crazy with Geass or cameos or anything of the like.
But that's just my take.
I'm surprised this is even an issue. The CG universe has so many cool things that other mech series don't have: Magic eye powers, sacred bloodlines, ancient technology, and God and the devil being key players. Of course it can thrive beyond Lelouch. It's world is so unexplored, literally. In the show and OVAs, we only saw Japan, China, France, and a bit of North America. There's plenty of other areas to show (pun not intended).
My one worry is that the show says KMFs are a fairly new thing - first used in the invasion of Japan about five years ago. It should be retconned that they've been around for maybe 30 years. This way the writers could say the balance of power wasn't always the same. Like maybe Britainnia wasn't a superpower until Charles became king.
L.L. & C.C. has to appear in this upcoming Code Geass series, they have to at least give us that😢😢😢😢😢😢😢
I love Lancelot and Guren and I hope it gets adapted into an anime. The same with Oz although I never saw a fully translated manga and I can’t find the picture drama, but I’m interested in the twins and Marrybell
I have the perfect example why CG fans will never like CG without lelouch. Look at Gundam, MANY series in different timeline..YET most Gundam fans will say each one is a ripoff of Amuro and Char from the ORIGINAL series back in 1979. Trust me...I've fan war with other Gundam fans about this aspect. When it comes to Code Geass, I can tell you most fans don't care about the spinoffs of the series. The most hype part of Akito was when Lelouch came into it, that was the only time Akito got buzz and thats just fact.
There are many different opinions among Gundam fans. Unfortunately, it's true some of them will follow that way of thinking.
And now he's back! Look at Code Geass Roze of the Recapture episode 3 and you'll see what i mean.
I firmly believe that Lelouch was the best part of Akito the Exile, however I think any future entries into the series need to branch away, I just think the potential is unrealized.
Theirs a time even Lelouch will be replaced don’t get me wrong I like Lelouch characteristics but even he needs to pass the torch. Knowing code geass is like Gundam just the title with different story line in different universes.
Yet fans will always say its a copy of Amuro and Char and nothing beats them, those two are GUNDAM. So it's never going to change.
The issue is that it's being proven time, and time again that the majority of the fanbase wants more Lelouch, the most popular scenes from Akito ARE the ones where Lelouch is there, and he's only present for not even 10 minutes. Sure, you can tell whatever story you want, but it doesn't mean it'll be successful without the ingrediate that made it successful in the first place. Then again, we did get Chocolate Chips cookies by accident, so it's possible fans might find other characters to latch onto kind of like with some hardcore Death Note fans and Minoru (I think that's how you spell his name?)
I honestly don’t know why people would want him in Dakkan no RoZe. He is shown to be present in the world 10 years after Fukkatsu no Lelouch, if RoZe takes place any time within those years, it will take all stakes away from the series regarding Lelouch if he is present there. It is no different than Dragon Ball Super lol, we all know Son Goku and Oob fight and Z ends there, no matter what Toyotaro wants to add. Lelouch should appear again after those 10 years in my opinion, Code Geass has always been a heavy stakes show and if they’re going to show anyone in the 10 year time skip it should everyone BUT C.C. and LELOUCH. Fans aren’t the creators, Ohba himself even said (to use your Death Note example) that the story of Death Note isn’t just about Light Yagami. Fans need to quit pretending they know what a series should or shouldn’t do, that’s how you get what has happened with the civil war in the fandom of Star Wars. (I absolutely can’t stand the disney stuff, but a lot of other people that feel the same way will go after fans of the disney stuff)
spot on analogy with dbs… the tournament of power as cool as it was absolutely no stakes whatsoever, you knew universe 7 would have to win and even if they didn’t they’d be wished back because goku vs uub couldn’t happen without that. also minors tanaka wouldn’t exist if light was the beginning and end of death note, to prove your point even further. i do think lelouch can appear in roze, but then the other side characters need to appear as well… no one is safe in code geass and the picture drama keeps lelouch safe as you said for another 10 years after the resurrection
minoru* tanaka
@@LeeroyyyStinkennnsExactly. I view Death Note the same way I do Code Geass. Do people say when they talk about Code Geass, Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion (english title I believe)? No they say “Code Geass”, the series is predicated on the power of Code and Geass, the same way Death Note is predicated on being a Death Note user. I think they can write a really good story with an interesting protagonist, and cover some of the deeper lore like Cs’ World with a very interesting Geass. (Having Lelouch and C.C. be their accomplices or however you view C.C. and Lelouch’s relationship in the original series)
@@tzdeezycompletely agree… i think someone with a geass like what nunnally had in knightmare of nunnally would be perfect for coming up with ridiculously complex strategies and although they wouldn’t be lelouch… it would definitely help get people off lelouch’s d. he’s my favorite character in fiction but to me his inclusion into anything needs to be handled with literally perfect respect, his story was already perfect and if they even make a decision that comes off wrong it’ll be gg for a lot of people with the series
Fans do determine whether or not the series is popular, and popularity determines how much money, and therefore funding, one gets. If the fans turn against the creator too hard to the point they stop buying and start boycotting then most of the time you're forced to either give up, or submit to the wills of the people. There has to be a balance between telling the story you want vs the story the reader wants to see. Beacuse is the viewer/reader doesn't like it, they simply won't read/watch it anymore, and once something gets big enough, as the author, you don't matter anymore, the crowd voice is what matters most, especially if you aren't the holder/owner of it and are instead working under a company or corporation that owns it.
That's a few years later after resurrection so Lelouch and cc might pop up due to geass related stuff.
The problem here is that apart from Lelouch, when you remove him you realize that in that universe there are things missing to explain and that they are rarely going to touch, an example is where the hell that power came from, they never finish explaining this. In addition to the fact that let's be honest, this franchise is unfortunately being milked like a cow, just look at that gacha game that died or how high the prices of collector version blurays are.
Another thing that does not benefit him is that Lelouch is one of the best protagonists in anime, a title that is not easily achieved, because now there are very high expectations for him to surpass it, which I don't even consider that is the point of the new characters, beyond telling a story, is like when you get used to eating expensive and delicious dishes and then they make you eat street food, some will like the idea of changing the menu and others will not.
It's sad and kind of funny to see how Lelouch ended up being a double-edged sword. "Let him rest, he retired and got married too, leave him alone, stop bothering the old people"
Sure, but if you want them to explain the origins of the Geass power (I'm ambivalent about this being necessary, personally), then that's something they can try to tell us in new stories. From my perspective, if you are able to enjoy other anime series without Lelouch-tier characters, then this shouldn't be too different. As for the gacha games, that's PRETTY normal these days. Think about any big anime series of the past couple of decades and you will find that they either already have an official gacha game or at least they have collaborated with an existing one.
@@bluespaceman7937 They have had the opportunity several times in the spin offs and they don't do it, but you will always see how they add a character that looks like Lelouch or is Lelouch, they play it safe, even the fact that the universe of the movies where he is alive has been chosen instead of the anime where he is dead, it only shows that they use Lelouch to make money, since this way the viewer who considers that "Lelouch is Code Geass" will see the new material , when it shouldn't be like that.
Forget Lelouch. The little devil's era is done, and I'd say it's time for a new one to take its place.
Lelouch is code geass. He is the reason why people watched code geass!!! That's it
It may be a good anime but tbh there is no cg without lelouch because he is goat ...we may get something but for sure not better
Lelouch's character is what defined code geass. It will not be the same without lelouch
Ut literally hurts when they say lelouch is not code geass ....ik hr is not but why f*cking revive him then
They should not revive him and give us hope ....he should be either dead or with a new series
I kind of understand your point of view despite being on the opposing side, for me code geass is Lelouch. The problem with this franchise is its success in creating a character that has it all ingenuity, strategic mindset, emotions, etc (you get the point) so people can't take it when some other character takes center stage except Lelouch. That's why Code Geass is nothing without Lelouch Vi Britannia.
Look, we want the Code Geass world. Not Gundam, not Gundam with Code Geass characteristics, not Code Geass... But let's add triple scoop of Gundam.
And sadly for a lot of people "Lelouch" is Code Geass... But what IS Lelouch? Because it's actually very possible to have "Lelouch" without having Lelouch. And for that we have to IGNORE R2.
Lelouch was a talented, and capable individual with a large scale goal who recognized that on his own as he was he would fail, until he was granted an amazing boon by a mysterious, slightly vexing, and occasionally helpful patron. He was someone who cared, but had strong feelings of hate and self delusion. He was immensely flawed and those flaws counteracted his incredible strengths rather than most protagonists where those flaws are irrelevant, overcome for a power boost, or entirely overshadowed by the characters strengths and virtues, Lelouch's flaws often drove the story as much or more than his strengths, particularly his killer sense of humor.
We don't need Lelouch or a Lelouch clone. What we want is a narratively strong protagonist whose flaws drive the story as much as their powers and virtues, and we want a supporting cast as strong or stronger than Code Geass' who can then offset the main character.
While people trash talk him, Susaku was a good counter to Lelouch, and sadly thus far everyone has been intent on either making a Schnizel clone trying to recreate the end of R2, or going full Gundam and keep finding themselves having made another Susaku without realizing it.
Lelouch is the goat, I gotta be honest I can't enjoy the spinoff series as much without him
They dropped another longer trailer for Rozé that has subtitles and adds details:
ua-cam.com/video/2VF2jn8FVUU/v-deo.htmlsi=8SAbQjXNLcQQCzo_
Lelouch is the foundation of the series.
I can probably get past it if he’s not in it
Lelouch is code geass. The mechs and powers and shit all comes second
The problem is yes of course code geass can continue without lelouch. But do enough people care about code geass without lelouch. They revived lelouch just to milk code geass for more content and he is now immortal alongside cc. You cannot deny that they are milking the series and for some people even if you are invested in the world beyond lelouch majority dont care for continuing a series and not knowing when to end it because more money. We know if this is post og code geass he exists out there somewhere with cc. So the possibility of him being able to be in the story is a disappointing tease. Because i will be honest to me without cc leloucu suzaku code geass is a mediocre series. Their characters specifically is what drives the story that made me enjoy code geass as much as i did.
Honestly, I wish Lelouch just stayed dead, man. It was great.