The Biggest Twist in Mushoku Tensei - Turning Point 4: Oldeus and the Diary
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- Опубліковано 24 сер 2024
- #MushokuTensei #JoblessReincarnation #anime
Spoiler warning - this video contains massive spoilers for Mushoku Tensei from the light novels! Anime only fans, watch at your own risk! Turning Point 4 in Mushoku Tensei is one of the most surprising twists in the series, with (SPOILERS) Rudeus receiving a future diary from a time travelling version of himeslf - future Rudeus, also known as Oldeus by many Mushoku Tensei fans. In this video I explain what is in the Future diary of Rudeus Greyrat, in which we see a dark timeline where Roxy dies, kicking off a whole series of other events that break Rudeus' character and turn him into a violent and twisted version of himself.
When I read turning point 4 I felt my body physically cringe, not in a bad way but in the wtf is going on/I can't believe this is happening way. The entire chapter was gut punch after gut punch. Even now, I cannot wipe the events from my mind, it was such a greatly written chapter. I cannot imagine how the anime and manga will handle those events.
That mostly happens when i watch re zero or read it
@@meteoktem i dont get why u bother comparing it
@@lLlILILw its comparable, especially since mushoku tensei author is friends with the re:zero author and had also gathered inspiration from it too
It was like waking up from a nightmare
Im going to start volume 18 and one of my friend said it gets boring from there..... Is it correct???
The diary fucked me up but it was crazy seeing how Rudy just opening a door ruined everything and undo his development. Also surprised me how ride or die Eris was.
denji from chainsaw man: first time?
@@thedstorm8922 I mean considering this predates chainsaw man, might argue they copied MT and not the other way around.
Its kind of crazy how much of a long game hitogami was playing, all that time to slowly earn rudi's trust for one moment, to get him to open a door in a single seemingly insignificant moment that changed everything and set rudi's entire life spiraled out of control.
It was carefully planned by Hitogami. He sees the future so he knows Rudeus would survive the fight against Orsted when they first met. And also his stubborness to stop Rudeus for going to where Zenith was that resulted to Paul getting killed. Told him that if he didn't go, Paul would still be alive which is true but at the cost of being Roxy's husband. When Roxy's child is born which is Lara, the one who's destined to be a hero, of course Hitogami would do anything to stop it. He was cunning, terrifyingly cunning. He knows that Rudeus would refuse his proposal to not go to Zenith and Paul so he made sure to tell Rudeus the other outcome and guilt trips him, manipulating his emotions to finally trust him so he can make the final move to destroy his life by killing Roxy through the rat in the basement.
The writing was so good that I didn't sleep just so I could continue reading. Hitogami's plan started all the way back since he first met Rudeus.
@@ginsmyth334 The way Orsted explains it, it's more like Hitogami's future sight allows him to see the many paths of people's different choices so if it were ever visualized, it would probably show up as a flow chart to him, however Orsted is completely invisible to him and so those branches simply cannot take his actions into account. It's like playing an RTS game against an opponent with invisible pieces on the board that, from your perspective, just cause your own units to inexplicably change their assigned destination or die outright. The only way he can tell what's happening in the fog of war is that whilst looking at the destination of his apostles in real time the moment they encounter Orsted he sees the branches of their flowchart either suddenly cut off or new paths inexplicably appear that wildly veer off in another direction that previously could not exist.
Orsted also explains that in spite of Hitogami's interference, some people have particularly strong "fates" that he cannot alter easily. Rudeus is the strongest example because Hitogami admits no matter the choices he made, Rudy would live through every encounter sent his way (except Orsted). Presumably Rudy dies of old age in EVERY timeline. Basically, Rudy's fate had no dead ends Hitogami could send him towards, he's just too tenacious to send to an early death. So by necessity he had to settle for Roxy instead, who while also possessing a strong fate, at least HAD a couple highly specific points in her flow chart to exploit (though unconfirmed, most of the fanbase suspects the Teleport Labyrinth was another one of Roxy's death flags so regardless of Rudy's choice, Hitogami had additional fallback routes to kill off Roxy even if earlier choices failed to kill her off). That fan theory can go either way as Orsted also specifically mentions that pregnancy causes women's fates to become more hazy and undefined whilst their fate is intertwined with the new life's interference. It can just as easily be argued that Roxy also had ZERO dead end routes so Hitogami had to specifically exploit her fate's weakness while pregnant to strike.
His reaction to Rudy as he lay dying during his encounter with Orsted seems to be genuine surprise, but he doesn't seem particularly upset either. In fact, he answers several of Rudy's questions with uncharacteristic frankness and (in hindsight) lets slip a bunch of information that he was likely keeping close to his chest to further earn Rudy's trust in the future because now that Rudy's dead, there's really no reason to keep those cards hidden...... only for Rudy to suddenly NOT be dying anymore. Even he could not see the cause and effect of Orsted killing and then reviving him within that small span of time as the alteration of the flowchart couldn't take effect until Orsted was casting the healing magic. Close to the end of their conversation Rudy even catches Hitogami off guard when he asks why he has such detailed information about Orsted's curses if he can't see him and then calls him out on the deliberate vagueness of his previous advice while coyly avoiding giving definitive answer to Rudy's prior questions.
I can only imagine the absurd backflips Ruijerd, Eris, and Nanahoshi's fate flowcharts were making during those few short minutes. In fact, I bet every Turning Point chapter has massive cascading effects on most lives in the MT world simply on account of how much impact Rudy's actions have on the remainder of the extended cast and the world at large.
i think the purpose of the Oldeus timeline is to show just how easily Rudeus could slip back into that stagnant mindset of pushing away the people who care about him
*"Gravity Magic"*
The key clue to Time Travel Magic
Honestly, i would love an entire episode just dedicated to showing Oldeus's version of life, and what drove him to do what he did
I think it would take more than one episode though, unless they really made it compact
It would a really cool OVA or movie. Sad and depressing, but cool nonetheless. I can imagine the amazing animation they would do with Rudeus burning Millis to the ground in a storm of lightning and gravity magic.
Nah that will be too much.. tragic, suffering, regrets, hate, fear
imagine the episode cuts before rudeus goes towards the door, and the next episode's opening is all going to shit before we resume with oldeus
@@FrostFireTiger probably not
Dont read after this if u didnt finish the light novel its spoilers
He probably nuked it since at the end of the story he already nuked a quarter of a giant forest just to bring down one person who is gisu
But since gisu throughly prepared his attack that meant that he didnt know rudues could use fire magic as well and gisu only realised that after he was at death doors talking with rudeus with his body irreparably burned and his talk with rudeus was the last.
But thats probably how he nuked a milis church massacring everyone since what happened in the forest didnt even make him exhausted and he still fought badigadi in golden armor and kalman 3 the north god weilding the strongest sword that had gravity magic
What makes Eris's fate so sad in the Oldeus timeline is that Oldeus outright turns on her. He begins to think she is following him under Hitogami's command. He even fights her and causes her to cry, because he cannot understand what she sees in him, which earns him Ghislaine's scorn.
It comes to a head during a fight between Oldeus and Atoferatofe, where her commander Moore attempts to hit Oldeus with a sneak attack. Eris, who even after that fight still continued to shadow him, intercepts it and dies as a result. It is heavily implied that while shadowing him, Eris was also protecting him from other lesser threats. Oldeus realizes too late that Eris had no underlying motive - she loved him and wanted to be by his side. She had trained for years for that exclusive purpose. And then he not only rejected her, but attacked her.
Oldeus had several "outs" in this timeline. He could have accepted Sylphy's attempts to help. He could have opted not to steal the scroll from Milis. He could have given up on revenge and just settled down with Eris.
Read it again bro, I think we're reading different book.
Sylphy engages rudy with a remark of something like "Forget her and lets make love".
While the scroll is the key to heal Roxy from her disease. It's said in LN she can't travel that far to millis because it takes time, she's already dead by the time they arrive. If you're thinking about teleportation, it's still not introduced at that time.
And when it comes to Eris. Since the day she left him, he always think that Eris hate or something like that and he's so heartbroken that it cause him to be impotent. Then think about it when someone in your family died and that person is important to you then your ex suddenly stalks you wherever you go with the intent of hurting you, what will u do?
Anyways there is no way rudeus want to be with eris when eris always stop him went searching slyhp. Even she is the one that make rudeus got jail in millbots
And come late to capital city
@@heavenyeah69 On Sylphy's part, please note that she was trying to get Rudeus out of his depression for the death of Roxy. Sylphy did what a wife should do, but was met with the worst outcome: Being horribly refused and cheated on.
Please remember that Sylphy was always insecure... She knew the day would come when Rudeus would leave her for another woman, and would always try her best to prevent that. To be shunned, when trying your best is bad. To have your S.O. choose another right after shunning you? That's immeasurably worse.
Do you know how bad it is to always fear that you're best is not enough for your S.O. and then have it not just proven but also reinforced ...? I simply don't know how the author can sow such vitriol in a character and in the next scene find a way to repair that hopelessly shattered image of him.
@@TheKueiJin Stfu everything that happened makes sense Rudeus not being able to think clearly and doing all those things people need to Stfu he didn't have an Escape route in his mind the only reason you people could he has an escape route that is because your not him
@@heavenyeah69 I mean eris first approach to rudeus was not to hurt him she only started stalking and looking out for him after he went of the deep end. Rudeus did just reject her at first.
Oldeus life was so tragic he went back in time just to see them again but died just when he said "At least just a glance"
I had the hardest time reading that diary I had to put down the book multiple times and do or read something happier just to come back and do it again.
YESSSSS! Been waiting for this video. Oldeus is what changed mushoku tensei from great to brilliant for me. There were hints that rudeus was holding back and a genuinely kind guy, but the Oldeus timeline showed not only how much Rudy was holding back but how important his family really is.
Thanks to this the entire first half of the story is worth a re-read to see how hitogami was manipulating him. Great video!
As The Joker said, ''All it takes is just one bad day''.
Kind of sad the book is finished. Would love to see a couple of episodes of Oldeus.
the author does plan to continue the story. Would be nice.
Idk in my opinion they showed a lot of what happened with his from the diary. It was so twisted and sad 😔. Not sure if that's something I'm prepared to witness
If the show become popular enough and near the end, you can expect a continue sequel will appear.
The LN has so many elements about Time Travel, Parallel Timeline, Teleportation and more.
Quite frankly, if this is anything like Dragon Quest 5 which this anime inspired from. Rudeus' children will somehow manage to get Rudy to come to future and together they gather allies and fought against Hitogami.
Just like in DQ5 where MC's son search the world and then de-petrified MC and his wife, then gather 4 legendary equipment, unlock Pegasus to finally go to last boss castle.
@@johnwong5317 oh wow this is the first time hearing about this. I've never player dragon quest 5. Actually the only one I've played was 11. But if what you say is true that sounds very plosable
@@Nakama4Forever Dragon Quest 5 has 3 generations, the Grandpa, then MC and then later his son.
It also has a movie animation, but they twist the ending to kind of like Matrix ending.
However, Oldeus is like Future Trunk Timeline and remember the Miko who started the summon is 80 years in the future.
So lots of hints and things they could use to make it possible like in Dragon Quest 5 to get Rudeus on the Parallel Timeline or even Time Travel after that with Parallel Miko to help or something.
Did anyone else have a mini freak out when the diary showed up in the s1 part 2 ED
That made me happy since they told me there was hope for second season
@@IHatoHandels second season is pretty much guaranteed. the whole studio behind it was maded for the purpose of adapting mushoku tensei.
Yeah... considering what they have shown in the early PV for season 2, there is a real possibility that S2 ends off with oldeus showing up...
@@sora5982 thank god for that too, they've been killing it, they know what they have and what they need to do to do right by it and by god if they haven't gone above and beyond to do just that.
What?! Where?
God it was the Darkest time line really hated having to read it myself. Poor Oldeus All the shit he did was crazy but the part that got me at the end was when he just started crossing people off the list. They never listed the names in the translation I read. But it made it sound like he went around wasting the strongest people on the planet and killing them for info on the man god.
On a side note the night after reading that part I myself had a nightmare about how Sylphie died.
How's that?
@@Rokomarn Sorry I guess my PS was confusing I meant after reading the part about Sylphie. That night I dream of a similar thing happening to my family.
@@mrush007 no you made sense I just don't know what happened to sylph. I've only been able to read the light novels that have been released in English that are on Amazon or in book store.
@@Rokomarn well read here if you want to be spoiled.. After Ariels failed attempt at a coup Ariel Luke and Sylphie's dead bodies where on display in the capital. Sylphies bodies was beat up fairly badly and missing an arm. The crowd was throwing things and acting like shit heads. So Rudy set the whole town on fire killing an unknown number of civilians. Again darkest timeline Rudy had really become a villian
@@mrush007 Damn they did that to Sylphy? No wonder why Rudeus is pissed.
When oldeus first show up in the web novel, I could sense, something must have went wrong. Never have I imagined how dark his path went. We learnt that the reason Rudeus couldn't wear his fighting spirit is because he isn't willing to kill indiscriminately. In that world, only Perugius is left as someone he can call a friend. Seeing how both his wives died in the dairy would have hurt Rudeus so badly I wouldn't dare imagine Oldeus's despair. I am also not surprised if Oldeus is part of or is within the strength level of the 7 world great powers since even Orsted never meets him again in that timeline.
I would like to imagine the timeline that oldeus existed exist but also breaks because of time magic used.
if I am not mistaken, oldeus defeated north god kalman III which is one of the 7 great world powers, and naturally he is in the list too taking kalmans place. if my fart memory serves me right, his entry in the diary was " today I killed north god kalman III, he didn't know anything about hitogami". all his entries were similarly written which showed oldeus didn't have much problem dealing with strong ppl and didn't care at all and only cared about killing hitogami, as he nonchalantly writes down killing strong ass people lmao
And the same way. Since he apparently has never met Orsted since, it would seem that Orsted deemed that as a failed loop already and either killed himself or went into seclusion to wait for the revival of Laplace and the subsequent return of the great war where his loop ends to start anew
He was definitely stronger because he just didn’t hold back and had no fear to kill.
I think Oldeus was far a greater fighter than Rudeus just because of that. I would’ve liked rudeus showing that kind of fearless determination on the new timeline. The author kept portraying him as a coward over and over, even making fun of that here and there. I just wish people was able to see him with more respect and not thinking he was a coward.
@@TacoMonster4eva You're quite frankly wrong, my man... There's 2 instances where Rudy has killing intent. One right after the turning point 4 and one at the end of it all. Using the strongest spell he has at his disposal, powered fully, and used as it should be. In a single phrase, the spell was the divine wrath made manifest. But had 0 effect.
@@TheKueiJin killing intent and being able to kill everyone indiscriminately are two different things.
Even in that timeline, in a situation like this, the only one who still with him is Eris... I like Roxy and Sylphy too, but please see the greatness of Eris.
Sad to know how she dies though. A couple tears came out for her ending the night I read the ending.
After the ending of the Anime I initially despised her for what she did, but more and more she has proven to be best girl
aisha best girl too, she stays with oldeus no matter what he did ( i know its bc she likes him but still best girl )
The thing is, all 3 are great, people give shit to Silphy in tht timeline cus she went to help ariel, but gotta remember,a big point of her character arc is, being her own person, making her own choices, that is why she was separated from Rudy early on, she maed also her own connections to Ariel and Luke who saved her, she also trusted Rudy would stand up by his own
Roxy is the one that actually hurts the most, because, Roxy represents all Rudy progress, that is why rudy treats her as a goddess like a fanatic, Roxy teachings and trust in rudy are the biggest ones and represent all the journey he has gone through, if he loses her, its the same as losing all that he stood for, and caused that huge blowback and depressing spiral
Eris too is amazing, but dont sell short the other 2 either
Zanoba
If Oldeus' diary *STILL* exists, then it's likely that his timeline likely still exists.
The whole Orsted looping situation feels less like ReZero and more Higurashi in what's going on.
...With a bit of Final Fantasy 8's closed loop's situation.
...Outside influences and context problems 'can' influence that closed off, instanced loop...
There are particular reasons for this though...
It is possible for other characters in mushoku tensei world to encounter this timeline post mushoku tensei, though for Rudeus, this is enough.
More importantly, his notes on high end time manipulation magic are still out there. Developing those into their own series of spells could grant world changing power.
@@KaiserAfini the only ones who could possibly do it are the Japanese trippers since he would be writing important findings in Japanese. Depending on circumstances, it might be impossible without Rudeus's huge manapool.
@@FierDuxt96 He gave Orsted his diary and a translation. Orsted could likely research it too
@@ApexGale Orsted himself wouldn’t research it himself because although he is interested, he knows that there is no value for him to learn because of his own circumstance.
This is the key moment of the story. When I think back on the story, I always divide it into pre Turning Point 4 and post Turning Point 4. The biggest difference is, that past that point Rudeus's life gained a purpose. While before he mostly went along with the vague idea to make his second life worth something.
I still remember vividly my reaction to this... I essentially put down my phone and didn't read Mushoku for a couple of days because holy shit what was that? It was brilliant but absolutely heartbreaking...
Dude, me and a few friends were actively reading the WN as it was being translated, we loved to talk about where we thought the story was going or just converse over the latest chapter ect. but fuck man, this changed everything, I mean the story was great up till this point but this was devastating.
I probably will be a sobbing mess when they finally get to this part in the anime... hell knowing what I knew about the novel ahead of time and the consequences yet rendered from the over all fall out from the mana disaster got me crying the second it started swallowing up ghislane... hell even rewatches get me blubbering, watching youtubers cover it gets me to cry.
Watching paul and rudi make up in the anime made me cry hard too, even rewatching for that matter, I AM NOT READY for this to be adapted, especially because they studio is absolutely killing it with the adaptation.
On a lighter note, when rudi stripped slyphy in the anime, I laughed so fucking hard when he appologized about not realizing she was a girl and made her cry even harder, that was handled so well, this is a masterful adaptation and I do not have enough words to describe how great of a job the studio is doing... that's why I know what's to come, the final "loose end" as it pertains to the mana disaster and everything else that comes after... I am not emotionally prepared even though I know what to expect.
the "future diary" was a genius bit of storytelling that elevated the whole series from good to great. not because of the oldius timeline, though it helped. but because it created this blanket of doom over the whole story. it added some serious stakes to the battle with hitogami; especially when hitogami appeared to rudy right after...
suddenly now hitogami's mask was off and he was a terrifying entity in all his warped cruelty.
thanks to that diary we're confronted with a giant win or die standoff with orsted with rudy's loved ones in the price for winning. thanks to the diary we're confronted with this incredible sense of doom over the whole Asura kingdom arc, and again with the whole Millis Arc, even more the danger from hitogami's apostilles becomes more and more clear as rudy digs into them and tries to thwart his plans. leading up to the climax of the book. the diary is essentially the event which kicks off the whole rest of the story.
its amazing also how its the set up, until that point, hitogami is a cryptic jokester entity that appears at times giving some advice to elad things in a situation, make it seem as they benefit rudy even, turning point 1 we meet him, turning point 2, is the first hint of it being something to be wary off, as its mere mention triggers off the strongest being in that world, then turning point 3 shows it asking to not do something, in a weird way, then elevated further in early TP4, his request is weird and so specific compared ot others, then oldeus happens, we learn his true colors and right then one more meeting, its aura totally intimidating as, there isnt either a way to reach him, oldeus even saying "distrust but dont oppose totally" and have the fear that he actually can reach and do something against Rudy family, its just the biggest twist after all other twists weve gotten that changed the story giving it a set direction
Paraphrasing here:
"Do you really want to oppose a God?" - Hitogami
Chilling. Now that is true horror. That phrase and all that entails from it.
The fear and anxiety i felt after realizing what Hitogami could potentially do to Rudy's family is something i never felt reading a book before. All the vulnerable people that Rudy has to look out for. His pregnant wife,his newborn daughter,his little sisters,his best friends,and all the possible ways that one thing could go wrong and end it all. I can only imagine the weight he mustve felt
One thing Turning Point 4 did well in my mind was establish Hitogami as a character to be loathed by the readers.
It was very well done.
But the hatred they have for him will probably eventually disappear into nothing as he didn’t kill anyone else and that timeline has passed
@@Mukichi actually we gonna continue because I don't know if you know but most of the bad things and catastrophes were his fault.
He indirectly caused the destruction of 5 worlds using the dragon race he made Orsted's father a good man turn into a monster as he was blinded by revenge to avenge his wife's death and in short he screwed up everyone's life and Orsted's as a bonus.
He was responsible for causing Laplace to be divided as he manipulated Badigadi to face him and when the fight took place Laplace was divided and the demon god emerged who caused wars and the great war and among many things I don't remember
I hope when the manga and the anime reach the Diary they'll show a flash forward, since I can't really picture it that well
Oldeus really was an idiot, pushing away everyone that still cared about him and leading a life of self destruction and vengeance. In the end he didn't get his revenge, but that doesn't matter, what good would it have done him anyway?
All his talk about magic being omnipotent and learning to not rely on anyone, where did it lead him? A bitter, frail, old man bleeding to death on the floor of his own study with no one but himself as company.
Fortunately he saves Rudeus from this same fate. Sixty-ish years later when he passes away, Rudeus has his last meeting with Hitogami. This time he is completely unphased by the mosaic censored god's malice and after exchanging a few words Rudeus passes away fulfilled. I like to imagine that when Oldeus died he flipped off Hitogami and promised to save him a seat in hell.
Or maybe Oldeus did find salvation in the end. In his last moments he managed to catch a glimpse of Sylphiette and Roxy with his demon eye. In a world where photographs don't exist, those last two seconds must have been worth more to him than vengeance ever did.
Bro they all died very soon after the millis thing so what’s the point…
Roxy died. You need to understand the significance of Roxy in Rudeus' life.
She's figuratively and literally his lifeline of the new world.
@@rudeusgreyrat7536 so basically Roxy Is rem & Rudy is Subaru basically
Wouldn't rly call Oldeus an idiot. Everyone he pushed away from him he pushed because he did not want to hurt them, and Eris confused him because he gave up on her and she would constantly beat him up after every time she helped him.
You can't really say that tho. The author knows what it feels like to be in a state of depression and chronic anxiety. People who are in this situation also hates themselves for doing the things they don't want to do, but would end up doing regrettable deeds. I say the author really knows what he's writing even from the first rudeus in japan. Oldeus isn't dumb, like imagine you were a shut-in then reincarnated, then to just suffer an enourmous amount of loss. You can't really say that...
Reading how sylphy was in this timeline was heartbreaking
Seems like a very bittersweet kind of "looking at your potential" situation and I absolutely love it. It's astounding how much people can change, given different circumstances in life and as difficult as it is sometimes, it's a good reason to always try to understand other people's perspectives. You don't have to agree with them, but understanding the logic they used to get to where they did and why they have the mindset and attitude they've developed can really open your eyes. Also quite annoying for Rudy that such a small thing as a rat causes his whole second life to turn into a dumpster fire and then the dumpster gets flushed down a toilet lol I really enjoy when series do this, even if it's seen as a cliche kinda like the "ghost of christmas past" type deal. So many points in our lives that pivoted the direction we were going and so many branches that sometimes it's kinda fun to think about how far the figurative "tree" or "web" spreads; even into tha dahhk syyde of ourselves. ooooooooooo. Great video! still gotta rewatch your last one cause I've been dealing with personal issues and didn't get the chance to focus while I was listening. Interesting outfit in this one! I feel like every video you appeal to more peoples interests for that waifu counter to go keep going up. Maybe you'll end up taking over and there will be no more Emilia vs Rem. Just the supreme overlord being Natalie
The time line plot hole is easily explained by Orested when he mentions that in his original time loops Rudeus was stillborn so everything that happens with Rudeus future self and present is supposed to happen in order for the destiny of Orested defeating Hitogamy to be fulfilled.
Its even better when you then read the Epilogue, Rudy 2nd chance was a coincidence, a happenstance that could gone any way, had he decided to stay in Buena cooped up in his family home, had he given up after being alone in the cold north, etc, none of the things we know of, would've happened and would likely ended like any other failed timeline orsted has gone through, and the biggest clincher is, all this is because, just as Rudy was too stubborn to stay down, tried anything to keep going forward, the Rewind Miko is just like this, she kept resetting and resetting and doing all she could to save her loved one from that destined fate at any cost, and just like Rudy too, both end in a bottomless despair, Oldeus timeline, and the countless loops of the Miko, to the point both are willing to gamble it all on one last chance, the big Rewind the miko does which also starts Rudy story, and the diary that gives all the possible hints to stop such a reality, its honestly beautiful and cements further a core theme of "Love" in a special way
Ive been an anime fan for 10+ years and i havent had a moment send chills down my spine this hard in a long while. This is one of the greatest moments i ever experienced as an anime fan
The way this version of Rudy is really interesting and how he is written as someone who has achieved everything in mastery yet he cannot achieve what he desires. And even if he did tried to undo all of his past actions rather than facing them fate still doesn't allow it and reality just keeps reminding him that he cannot undo what he has become. Just like reality.
This my favorite part of the whole Light Novel. Keeping Rudeus out of the basement is the most important move of the whole series. Roxy lives, Sylphy does not get killed and Eris and Rudeus get together. It also confirmed my loathing of Hitogami.
Idk if this is the correct way to look at it, but I like to think there's 3 timelines:
(1) The world's original timeline, where Earthdeus never reincarnated,
(2) Rudeus' original timeline, which is the life of Oldeus,
(3) the timeline the rest of the story takes place in, the "alternate" timeline where everything changes.
This gives the readers the best of both worlds narratively, where we get plenty of tragedy and a happily-ever-after. I really like that. I don't want to see Rudy fail, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't curious about the bad end. Really cool concept on the author's part.
Man when I first read this chapter I cried... *Spoilers*
What happened to Sylphie in particular made me cry, God Hitogami deserves to rot. Oldeus is honestly an mvp sad that he isn't mentioned much afterwards.
Same bruh, I remember crying in middle of the night reading that part🥲
I actually stopped reading for a bit after that exact part, man, it is probably one of the if not the most sadly disturbing parts in the novel
Bro Rudy deserved to go dark after that.
Given the spoilers in the actual video I don't think u need to spoiler tag this
@@KristopherStoltz He went dark just....not in the typical anime protagonist way he instead turned into a whole other person little by little every passage we got to read we saw him rot and break until he was completely filled to the brim with anguish, and then nothingness. Oldeus is a dark side done right honestly it was brutal reading what led him to become the way he is and it was a slow burn not some instant edgy power up bullshit.
i would say that the orsted infinite loop is a closed loop of a singular timeline with the only exit to be sealing hitogami oldeus simply did the same thing orsted does however with more than just his memories yet because rudy was introduced into the loop he will always be a part of the loop meaning that if orsted fails rudy would be a part of the next loop
Not sure about that. Orsted himself said that he's not certain that Rudeus will be in the next loop, which motivates him to succeed in this loop cause he doesn't want to live in world where Rudeus never existed.
nope. Rudeus soul is an outlier
While reading Turning Point 4 and the succeeding chapters, I couldn't sit still and relax. My heart was pounding and I may have experienced one of the worst gut punches in one night. Especially during Sylphy's part!! I thought I was reading Game of Thrones for a second! How could they do that to my best girl!!
Funny part is the WN predates the GoT hype/popularity.
TP4 and Conclusion hits hard, even though it's a reread. It's like rewatching Code Geass 2 Episode 25.
Eris being "happily" married to Luke in the other timeline is a bit of a stretch. It was mainly a marriage of convenience. I think they only had one child, a daughter.
It was mainly Luke who was head over heels for Eris, Eris at best considered Luke a good friend 😅
Thanks, Natalie, for handling that traumatic reading memory so gently. The first time I read through that diary....I can't imagine my face, because I can remember my heart at the time. To hear some of the worst possible outcomes for so many loved characters. And not hypothetical outcomes, but ones that absolutely happened to those people, somewhere and somewhen. Eris deserved to have a better life, Sylphiette should have had her love and patience rewarded instead of her having to give up on them and going off to dies painfully, and Roxy.....anyone wanna deeply ponder of how that death would feel, losing one's body slowly while watching those you live hurting because they cannot find a way to help, after finally finding love and happiness.
That bullshite of Roxy getting sick by nibbling on some leftovers, something every wife and husband so it some point, and they could never imagine something so innocuous bring their end. It hurts me.
I just noticed a parallel to how Oldeus lost Roxy while trying to get the book and gow Ars lost his loved one while trying to turn the sky blue
my head cannon on how old Rudeus went back:
he does not travel through time but actually rewinds it without affect himself. In other words, there is not two timelines, there's only one. He finds a way to revert the energy of the expanding universe. So every atom in existence started moving backwards and doesn't stop until existence reaches his reference (i.e. the moment he started the journal). this is also why he lost his body parts because he wasn't able to completely protect himself during the rewinding process. This also explains why Hitogami couldn't predict him time traveling.
I think it would be far more devastating to go through the entire life of Oldeus and see him travel back in time. I know its unlikely, but my heart is dreading this moment.
I think there's a chance.
Assuming the current trend is still the same, Season 3 will adapt volumes 13-18, but I think they will divulge from the trend. Cour 1 will adapt 13 and 14, while Cour 2 will spend 4 or 5 episodes adapting the diary, then the remaining episodes his struggle against Orsted.
Maybe, though I think the diary stuff will just come up as and when it does in the LNs rather than all being done together as a series of episodes.
Me when he says "You will regret it".
Before Oldeus: weirdo gives a cryptic warning.
After Oldeus: hmm... OH, it was a threat.
I have found that I am really enjoying your videos and sense of humor ☺️ Love the indepth knowledge that you are providing. If you do start Overlord content with the next season I will definitely join that as well. Keep up the great work 😸
It's was the biggest mindfucks in the series tbh. I have a feeling that this sequence would become a movie though. It feels too good a fit tbh. Higher budget for a movie for the fight scenes would be great too but goddamn when this part airs, i would be fucked up with sadness
If they made a movie about this arc, oldeus, the diary, orsted fight, eris reunion. It would be one of the greatest anime movie ever made
the timetravel things is kinda messed up because on the one hand it indicates with nanahoshis problem and the mikos wish which transported rudeus and co. a universe were future actions that change the past must happen in the future again so the past can happen while on the other hand rudeus timetravel abillity clearly shows a multiverse setting because oldeus cant repeat his story when rudeus does not send a message to his old self at some point. orsteds abillity could be one of the two. i would say a nanahoshis assumptions about her blocked dimensionaltravel is wrong and its a multiverse or b rudeus has at some point send the diary and the advices to his old self back in time one way or the other which would mean it rewinds the world itself.
The only thing that comes to mind about Time is the concept of relativity. As much as a headache it is to understand, I guess that for this story, Time is not an absolute concept for everyone and everything at, for lack of a better word, "at the same time." What I am trying to say is that the fundamentals of magic when applied to Time work the same. Just as the magic one person uses affects one another does not mean that my magic is your magic. While magic in general is basically 'one', each person has their own experience and capacity and usage of it. Just as there are types of magic that interfere or mix with the magic of others, we also were given an example of someone being able to affect another person's "time" experience (Nanaishi). I think Odeous spends considerable amounts of time reflecting and studying this phenomena to reach the conclusion that while his time manipulations might not be able to affect much about anything in general, he is able to greatly affect himself. Oldeus and Rudeus are the same person, so this is possible. I think that might be the principle behind Orsted's continual resets also.
"Excuse me wtf" basically encapsulates that chapter
I just finished volume 14 of the official English Light Novels, and I was absolutely losing my mind when Old Rudeus showed up. It was absolutely amazing to read
He basically reminds me of a Wrath If or Pride If Subaru who tries to kill everyone for his goal of helping Emilia. I think it also shows how he is similar to Paul and the possible parallels that could occur. The thing about the Turning Point is that they all are a very big plot twists and turns none of us could expect and no one would know how it would proceed after that. When it comes to Oldeus, there was always the possibility Rudy wouldn’t heed the warning. For Orsted, it’s hard to know if he could be an enemy or ally for Rudy and that’s something Hitogami worries about. That’s definitely why Hitogami hoped Rudy would die or that he would never meet Orsted. Also Nanahoshi was a major factor in the detour for Orsted. I’m curious if Orsted has written all his knowledge of the timelines and all that in books similar to Books of Wisdom in re zero
he did actually. in the redundancy books he talks about how he always wrote down critical information of each timeline because he would only be able to make minor changes each loop then search the entire world to see what effect it had as a whole.
but with Rudy's existence, so much changed that he basically ended up writing a book about Rudy and all his accomplishments. He at one point even mentions that he's terrified that he might lose in that loop because soo much happened in the loop with Rudy that orsted has literally no idea how the hell he's going to recreate everything up until the point he's currently writing about. it forces him to gather his resolve and say to himself, "I have to beat hitogami in this loop. this is probably the best and only real chances I'll have thanks to rudy."
he's also scared that Rudy might not be in the next loop if he does have to repeat. it's an amazing short story that really gives you a sense of how much he respects and has come to rely on Rudy. as well as see him as a real friend and comrade.
@@hypnotic313 this sounds like when Subaru finds his resolve for a final loop in arc 4 although this is a larger scale. It also shows how much it was chance that they both met and it really was a turning point since the timeline changed a lot. I think it also means his consciousness is usually in one timeline at a time and he couldn’t be in the Oldeus route or perhaps he never met him again then (idk if he did or not)
It’d be crazy if season 3 opens with this Turning Point
Regarding the timeline.
Oldeus didn’t change the timeline by going back. He prevented the timeline from being changed by Hitogami . As such he was essentially a being from another universe.
And I would absolutely love a full Oldeus episode! A few short scenes would be cool too, but man a Terminator 2 style future episode with the darkest timeline would be soo sick.
That part fucked me up so hard I had to take the emergency Lorazepam in my bag and still ended up so scared and anxious the entire day. But I am glad I read it because it changed my life the same way it did for Rudeus, and I now value my relationship with my family and friends more than anything.
Seeing it in anime form will probably destroy me but I can't wait!
"...and also achieves absolutely nothing by doing any of it..."
I wouldn't say that. The whole of Mushoku Tensei is about Rudy's redemption of himself, where his life in this world vastly improves on his life in the last one. What Oldeus gets to do is redeem himself more directly, developing (incomplete but sufficient) time travel and going back in time to ensure his own "darkest timeline" version of himself never comes to be, and (perhaps largely unintentionally) providing his younger self with information that will eventually lead to the events that will cause the ultimate downfall of Hitogami, ultimately gaining the revenge he wished for.
You didn't mention in the diary, Eris also died by sacrificing herself to defend Oldeus. It wasn't until after Eris died defending him that Oldeus found out that Eris still love him. As for your timeline conflict/confusion. Just view the timeline as a single timeline and not a parallel timeline. Once Oldeus teleported back in time, that timeline of Oldeus cease to exist
I had been waiting so long for this video.
Just…damn. Rest in peace oldeus. Would love to see you making more videos for mushoku tensei’s hopefully newer seasons and any other awsome anime like Re:zero, Overlord, Shield hero, e.t.c. Much love, thank you for your videos and god bless/best of luck🙏🙏♥️♥️♥️👏🤌👌👍🤟
Turning point 4 and hte diary chapters in the webnovel made me feel something that not other novel has made me feel, repulsion and stress to the point where i almost puked from imagining any of the scenes, its something so heartbreaking and then hits you with an uninpending fear towards hitogmi, its a situation where you are told "you cant fight back, only resist" and you see how all pieces start clicking together, its such an intense part of the story, even the messed up shit in rezero hasnt given me such a feeling, and ive read until arc 6 of it, specially because you have the feeling that, things remain, there is no real do overs, which gives a bigger feeling of threat as a misstep would cost too much
Ah just what I needed, a new Natalie video fantastic!
Now that V15 is finally out I can finally do some analysis on Oldeus! So! The way I interpret it the trait that made Oldeus become a mass murderer is the same trait that made him a shut-in back on Earth. When confronted with severe trauma, he first starts to wallow endlessly in self-pity and self-hatred, which he eventually projects on the world around him assuming everyone hates him as much as he hates himself. On Earth he had no power so all he could do to hurt the world around him that he thought was against him was to push everyone away, but in the 6 faced world he has plenty of power so when he arrived at the stage of self-pity where he externalizes his self-hatred into a persecution complex, the result is as we see: mass murder.
The tendency toward this mentality is truly his greatest flaw and weakness, if his support structure collapses he inevitably starts a self-destructive rampage, that he can only be pulled out of by someone he deeply trusts. He didn't have anyone like that back on Earth and after loosing Roxy and Sylphy he didn't have anyone like that in the other world either, once he enters the self-hatred phase, he turns completely unaproachable. He couldn't change no matter how kindly or forecfully his Earth family and Eris tried to get through to him, he was a lost cause after Sylphys death.
Considering this, he really isn't fit to be the legendary Hero, even if we disregard the time-frame of his life.
its good that he didnt, because anyone could be hitogami's pawn, and if he trusted the wrong person he wouldnt be able to reset the timeline.
this is how I like to organize the time lines. primarily from orsted's perspective
1.0-1.XXXX: orsted tries different strategies, fails at some point. miko dies a slightly different death(most likely the compounding affects of orsted's changes). orsted loops back
2.0: orsted does some combination of actions that result in akihito getting summoned. he dies and miko turns back time.(orsted doesn't finish this loop)
2.1: rudy's soul slips trough the hole made by the miko, nanahoshi is summoned. hitogami shenanigans.. rudeus rampages. rudy goes back in time.(again, orsted doesn't finish this loop)
2.2: [our current timeline]. rudy slips in. nanahoshi is summoned....oldeus brings news of timeline 2.1...the miko will be born... we assume akihito will be summoned???
the current timeline has been essentially reset(branched) twice. once for Miko's bad end and another for Rudy's bad end. From Orsted's perspective he's still on loop 2.0. Even after reading the diary, he would think he's on 2.1.
This makes total sense, my issue is what happens to 2.1 after Oldeus leaves it? He doesn't have time reset powers, it seems, he has only found a way to (partially) propel himself into the past. So that could mean timeline 2.1 continues to exist after he leaves it for the past. If it does, then we can assume Orsted in that timeline will eventually fail, and end up starting a new loop - 3.0, which will not have Rudeus in it. That's the part that messes with my head.
@NatalieXHunter I assume from the playback miko's story that each of those worlds continues after orsted dies/loops. She's died enough times to become numb to the idea of living, and I assume orsted had earlier loops where he died in battle from lack of mana.
Timelines 3.0 - is a gaint question mark. We've been told her power has diminished. The question becomes. Was the hole she ripped a one-time spell, or is the drain on her powers the result of creating that hole in each new timeline? Does she even have enough juice left to be a conduit to even summon akihito in 2.3? Will he have his memories from 2.0?
If akihito can be summoned a second time, then maybe rudy and nana can get in again.
Why would the playback Miko's story mean the worlds continue after Orsted dies or loops? Her lifetime always takes place within the 200 years of his loop. He may have died earlier in some loops, but we don't know how many lives the Miko has had, so if Orsted has done 100 loops, and she's done 80, that still allows for him to have died early 20 times, and the worlds not continuing after he loops.
@NatalieXHunter this is a lot of ifs but I'm going based on the idea that most of orsted's efforts are to ensure he can kill laplace efficiently.
She's born during the last 20 years of his loop (i may have to double check) lives for at least 10 of those years.
If rudeus can injure/pressure orsted to the degree he did, im certain laplace can kill him. Akihito dies to demons, so the war has already started.
So, orsted, whos tried enough times to know who has kids with who While being limited to walking the world and a few teleportation circles, Must have exhausted every option he could think off. I think statistically, one of those attempts likely included fighting laplace in that 10~ year period. It's a stretch i know.
Oldeus' life in a nutshell : always one step too late for the important things...
it was because i seen a few spoiler videos that it got me wanting to read ahead rather than wait a few years for the next season of the anime and i really enjoyed it but knowing ahead of time of what was gonna happen and when still didn't change the emotional moments when they happend. i went with the light novel tho but sadly it stopped at volume 14
I think the timeline stuff is that Orsted and Rudeus just blink out of existence and the timetravel is only from the travelers perspective, so Orsted won't know anything from Rudy's previousl loop. Also there was no sign of Orsted in the future, so he already gave up on the Oldeus line to go back and as we see, it continued on without him.
I'm so bummed out that THIS is as far as the official translation has gotten. Great video.
It would be nice if it was shown as a full OVA series or a full length Movie
There's just something really, really bleak about seeing your future-self falling off the deep end and at the end of it all, you bury yourself in the backyard. Couldn't even hold a proper ceremony or let him say a final goodbye to the ones he loved, but at least he changed the future so maybe that was all he needed. I guess Rudeus would know what he himself wanted, right?
my love for eris grew so much after she died
When I was listening to turning point 4 while I was working, I could feel myself becoming physically ill when rudeus was reading the diary. When he got to the part of witnessing a crowd of people throwing stones at sylphiette’s hanging corpse and decided to kill everyone there, that made me need to pause the video for a little bit as my stomach churned
HOLY crap, I got spoiled that there was a turning point in V14 as I was closing the page one of the headlines said "Mushoku Tensei's version of the Red Wedding" and I was like wtf NOOOO. I was dreading it as page after page went by, I got past the Alofe part and I was like this has to be it right? But then the chapter popped up. Holy crap, that was absolutely insane.
Definitely will have some what some would consider "Slow" during like V7, 8 and the School Arc but man once we get to TP3 and before TP4 and then you get hit with TP4 and omg 😱. I can not wait to see this, all of it, in Anime form.
I am on 16, Holy crap, I need to see this in Anime form so bad, and after I do I can die peacefully. No wait,. I need to see the ending of Re:Zero too 😩 lol
I was reading this chapter at 1AM that I jumped out of bed screaming "WHAT THE F, HLY SHHH" lol but yea I read the whole thing for another 3 hours, there's no way I was going to sleep after learning something like that lol
Love your stuff! My brother and I watch every video you post. We love Mushoku!
Awesome! Thank you!
i think theres always a slight bit of confusion in mushoku tensei about the cousin link between Eris, Rudy and Luke.
Philip and Paul are first cousins as Sauros is Philips dad and pauls uncle.
Eris and Rudy are 2nd cousins but that often gets overlooked.
Pilemon is Pauls brother making Rudy and Luke 1st cousins.
Luke and Rudy are more closely related by blood than Eris and Rudy.
some people cringe at the fact rudy and eris are cousins but its actually legal even in our laws to have relations with your 2nd cousin. still a brit cringe for some people but its a very common practice even today.
Yes. That's all true. So whether Eris marries Luke or Rudy, it's still second cousins, which is not really considered a problem even in modern times but certainly wasn't in a medieval setting. Most people don't even know all their second cousins and the genetic difference is considered to be sufficient that there is no more risk of it causing birth defects in any potential kids than any other couple. Sure, it sounds gross to be with someone you're blood related to, but it wouldn't really count as incest even today, let alone in that kind of setting (especially among nobility who have a limited marriage pool among their own class).
@@NatalieXHunter I always enjoy listening to and reading your insights. I'm never disappointed to see your take on it.
omg thank you for my request about future rudeus
Hope you like it!
Been waiting for this!!
Would love an episode about oldeus and everything that happend leading up to him time travelling
This type of videos are my most favorite
A full OVA of this awful timeline is my dream scenario when we reach this turning point. Like be interesting to see in detail how bad it gets instead of reading it. But this is an anime so certain scenes will be tone down but nonetheless be fun to see
I wonder if the oldeus loop was the one where the miko reset the timeline. It is possible that the miko being the cause of the reset time loop, Orsted may have lost the memories of that loop and not remembered seeing Rudeus in the previous loop. Making our current timeline the one that he first recalls Rudeus in. That also means that his daughter with Sylphie could have survived and become the prophet that set things in motion.
Just finished reading this chapter and oh my god i got chills the moment i read the title Turing point 4 that was the best chapter I ever read and this is now my favorite series of all time❤😅
This is very interesting, thank you for the video.👌
6:30 you can look at it like the loop having a wrinkle. Causing another loop to co exist with the main one. If he reset on the altered loop it'll basically just vanish since the timeline will be reset way before the wrinkle happen.
Wait what why would it vanish, there would be 2 parallel timelines meaning there are 2 orsteds. 2 orsteds = 2 timelines that loop.
@@shardz1938 that's what happen with any reset orsted makes. But yes, a new vantage point will occur and a timeline where orsted has never worked with rudeus exist parallel with the timeline where he worked with rudeus.
Appreciate the Mushoku content, really enjoy it
A girl so clumsy like Lara is the ultimate threat against Hitogami is hard to believe.
Haha, well, he's not really that strong - he's just hard to reach.
Our boy Rudeus basically wipes the entire millishion religion off the map
I never understood how Cliff died in the future timeline from Poison.
After they stole God-class Detoxification magic.
Why didn't/couldn't they heal him?
Time travel stuff is very confusing. I totally feel you there.
What Natalie said about not understanding the nuances of time travel is why a lot of stories there are a ton of them that eventually have the trope line "Temporal mechanics gives me a head ache." *SPOILER ALERT* They even covered this in Avengers Endgame when Banner, Nebula, Scott, and Roady talk about the time travel theories that they believe in. Banner and Nebula subscribe to a branching timeline, where the changes you make are only in a universe parallel to ours, while Scott and Roady believe in a malleable timeline, where alterations you make change your present, like in the Back to the Future movies. Roady even brought up the idea of assassinating Thanos, the bad guy that had literally killed half of the universe in the previous movie, as a new born.
I personally believe that the parallel universes at the core of the Sliders science fiction show form the 1990's, starring Jerry O'Connell, where each episode they'd be dropped into a new world similar to ours, but for a handful of slight differences, like the United States capital stayed in New York instead of being moved to its current location in Washington D.C., or Mussolini was the super charismatic leader of the Axis powers in the Second World War instead of Hitler.
orsted's power makes it most likely for it to be a single timeline. otherwise you would just be spamming hitogamis out of nowhere.
I just chalk up the time travel to magic, which oldeus said can do pretty much whatever you want as long as you understand it and have enough mana
An absolutely wonderful video thank you so so much
If you don't upload before Christmas
Have a great and amazing Christmas and a great 2022
Thank you! You too!
I like to call him Old Man Quagmire
Giggity
I assume every time Orsted "resets time" he just sends his memories back in time to his body, and the timeline diverges. Where as Oldeus sent half his body back. Either way, those time lines still continue on, just without out Orsted or Oldeus.
a single episode, an hour long episode 0 or a movie of just oldeus
now i understand the book
Im surprised you don't mention how Eris eventually died in the Oldeus route. Totally not because she's my favorite character.. But her death and Ghislaine reaction and Rudy having to deal with that is what drove the knife into my heart when reading the diary chapters.
i just read this part like the day before yesterday, and i keep thinking about this nonstop
The amount of new spells he learned and made is crazy also the amount of city’s he destroyed
I love your videos! I am a big fan of the series and your videos makes me love the series more! I won't rush but, I look forward to see you make a video about Geese Nukadia someday 😁😁😁😍😍😍😍
merry xmas, happy holydays full of hp and joy!you gave us great vids the past year and i hope you will keep up the great work in the upcomming year too!much love and best wishes natalie!!!
Man future Rudy's diary abso freaking lutely destroyed my soul
tye future has been changed so there's a new oldeus now it's a paradox i recommend not to think to much about it it can give yu a headache :)
to quote dr who "People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but *actually* from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly... time-y wimey... stuff." :)
I actually did think about this too much and a few days later made a big old video with my theories about how it actually works haha!
Not often we get this set of elements in this genre, very interesting.
i kinda see how that diary section will be adapted similar to how Rezero subaru post-death on the sanctuary showing like couple second of each section.
2 more months til i get to read the LN with the diary chapters, so hyped for it.