What's In Winterfell's Crypts and How Winterfell Stays Warm
Вставка
- Опубліковано 21 вер 2024
- In this video we explore the crypts of Winterfell and I give what I believe to be an original theory for what I believe could be going on down there as well as how Winterfell manages to stay warm in the icy cold northern winters.
It would appear I am a real UA-camr now and me and my pets need to eat... If you would like to help support me and say thank you for the videos you can do that here.
/ michaeltalksaboutstuff
For now view the Patreon as a tip jar to say thank you for the videos if you have enjoyed them and to support me and let me know they are appreciated. Little bits of money would be very helpful for the time spent and could help spoil myself or my pets which would be very nice of you all.
Sansa will warg into a lemon cake. It is known.
It is known.
@@robertinogochev3682 It is known.
It is known.
It is known 😮
This is how lemon-gate will be resolved
The other odd thing is that the crypts are dug in reverse. Normally you would find the oldest remains at the entrance and the newer ones lower down, digging as you need to. I think this suggests there was something besides burying the dead that originally motivated them to excavate that deep.
Unless what became the crypts predate Winterfell. Dragons have been shown to burrow when Dany sees Viserion tunnel into the wall of a palace in Essos, OR it could have to do with the Children of the Forest, who have coexisted with Starks, and taught them the old ways. They too have lived underground, and might have tunneled for a temperature-controlled home to go into during the harsh winters. Maybe the deepest parts of the crypts still have some mysterious warding that instills fear into people who get too close to a place they might have considered sacred. Just brainstorming though
EXACTLY.
This stumped me for years since reading AGOT, and I think it was Dave aka LmL who solved it for me, by theorizing the crypts were a Weirwood cave like the one Bran is in now. Westeros is full of these "hollow hills" ;)
The dragon is sheepstealer, helping old nan escape
Exactly !
I know I'm replying to a 9 month old comment from before HotD season 2 released but how funny would it be if GRRM put an ancient sheepstealer under winterfell, after all his complaining about sheepstealer being in the Vale in HotD
@@KaliahSheDevil Dragons follow their Riders, thats why Bloodwyrm and Vhagar stayed in Pentos with Deamon and Leana. The point George was trying to make is, that wild dragons don't migrate.
@@webo1521 yes I know and I don't give a shit about his point I was just talking about how something related to the video could hypothetically (albeit immensely unlikely) lead to a funny irony
It's a lot easier to believe that some dragons migrate sometimes rarely than it is to even believe in dragons in the first place so I think I'll listen to the George Martin that tells audiences "you know we just make all of this up, right?" 😁
@@KaliahSheDevil No you fool,if dragons migrated even rarely they would be everywhere GRRM touches this topic. Authors spend their lives developing the world so it doesn't have flaws. As GRRM said "Fantasy needs to be grounded. It is not simply a license to do anything you like. [...} Ignore canon, and the world you’ve created comes apart like tissue paper."
Adds huge weight to the phrase "There must always be a Stark in Winterfell"
Truly. Not just at Winterfell, but in it. Yikes.
PLOT TWIST: Ser Pounce is, in fact, the Pounce that was Promised
Maybe that's why Arya was actively recruited and why she'll be allowed to "escape" as herself rather than nobody. The Faceless Men needed a Stark to do this, one motivated to do it for her own reasons. So they planned to give her the skills and knowledge she needed and then encourage her to "escape" back home. It certainly recontextualizes them putting her in proximity to someone on her list but telling her she cannot kill them.
interesting thought. if i turn it around, then there are two main questions, though...
why did the faceless men need a stark NOW (and how did they know arya would be the one, waiting in kings landing like a ripe fruit to be plucked)? their agenda vhalar morghulis exists since before the doom.
who is there on aryas list, whom she either needs or who is otherwise important for doing what she is supposed to do, that she therefore must resist the temptation to kill?
@@miaaaalein jaqen was there to go to the wall. His whole mission might have been to recruit a stark and he just found one earlier than expected. Maybe the faceless men knew that the others woke up again.
And maybe that's why Arya was turned into no one. Maybe as no one she can go in the crypt.
Meeting Arya was sheer luck though. Jaqen was in The Black Cells for another reason. It was to get to the wall as a prisoner to not arouse suspicion. Arya was happy luck and must be more important than what was at the wall, though. He was probably there to kill Ned Stark seeing as he was to be sent to the wall and kill him on the way. No Ned, no need to go anymore except... this curious girl already pretending to be someone else, just like a little faceless man. Here's a recruit that knows how to act with nobility and like a street rat... and a boy. Jaqen came up all 7's on his mission. Get paid without killing and get new recruit. Also, it's obviou who hired him... the master of coin person obsessed with Ned's wife.... Littlefinger.
7:05 wait a minute... great winged snake whose roar is a river of flame! So sheepstealer was under the castle?
@@RandomGuy-lu1en that makes no sense why would she need to be noone to enter winterfell crypts? i think she -has- to be a stark to be put to rest in the crypts a male one im sure its full of the dead kings of winterfell
So, in HVAC refrigerant is used for both cooling AND heating, because the heat you remove when cooling has to be moved elsewhere (usually outside). What if the heat in Winterfell is the heat removed from the water in the wall to make it icey?
My man
I knew GRRM was a man of the HVAC
@@FunkBastid A rare and honorable breed indeed.
Willis Carrier was a man of the north
Damn! Now this has true promise. I keep thinking that sophisticated AI is running all this. The North would be cool enough to house a massive server system. Now let’s think about Earth Domes or Earth Castles out in the mountains and in the dessert. See I really think it’s post apocalyptic. The Green Men were hippies, the Valeyrians were into kinky and freaky genetics, Andals are invaders, First Men are the indigenous, cranac men are Florida men, the River Lords are the Bayous of the Gulf of Mexico, the Vale is the Appalaticians etc.. now I realize he’s mixed in real world history, but his characters are very American😂 The Old Gods still hold weight down here too😂 growing up in the South or along the US/Mexican border guarantees you a childhood filled with magick and economics and architecture-technology.
Another supporting evidence for this that I've seen elsewhere is the Stark house words "Winter is coming." We often think of it as a warning or a reminder but this would seem to imply that it's a threat. The Starks hold the power over the glass candles and therefore the fate of the wall. Winter is coming is a threat that if you don't fall in line, the Starks have the power to bring a long night level winter.
and another weird thing: As they move deeper into the crypts, the sculptures there get older, not younger. Normally a crypt is started and then expanded when more space is needed. The crypt under Winterfell was there before the starks used it. It wasn't build by them.
Long nieeeght
i had never actually considered the mechanics of pumping water, but you've got a good point that it's not a trivial thing
Damn this is good stuff. So when the Faceless Men offered the gift of death to the slaves of Valeria it was releasing them from an enternal or at least a very extended universe of dieing in the mines only be resurected to work some more. Which means Valeria used an army of fire wights as slaves to mine for resources. Those dragon lords were evil.
Woah. That is evil. Also, no wonder that place went to shit after a while.
A song of fire and ice. A fiery apocalypse in old Valeria, an icy apocalypse in Westeros.
it would have been better if Valyria has a handful of fire wights who can survive the mines, than the reality that their slavery just fed the mines endless number of people anyway
Glass candles are obsidian. Obsidian is the result of high silica lava extruded from a volcano which cools rapidly (perhaps in water) with minimal or no crystal growth, forming glass. So your theory could be true at the same time as the volcanic activity explanation if obsidian is being formed continuously beneath Winterfell, as lava extrudes beneath a pool or spring (perhaps connected in some way to the pool in the Godswood allowing human blood to enter the water) and obsidian pokes up out of the water as glass candles, lit by blood from the water or some impaled beings, and constantly being renewed by lava extrusion.
After the sack of winterfell when the Boltons are in residence they never mention the heat and specifically mentioned the ice on the ponds.
Isn't it mentioned by Theon in the godswood ? Or like during the wedding even he mentions it's warmer there? I may be wrong but I thought it was brought up.
Interesting! I didn't clock that!
After so much time and after multiple readings, it low key moved me to see Eddard and Cat smiling at Winterfell. Appreciate life everyone.
All this talk about the Crips of Winterfell, what about the Bloods of Winterfell?
Can we show the opps some love too?
Having an Arya-cat and Hound “team up” taking down the Mountain would be awesome! Who ever said cats and dogs are natural enemies? 😂.
Also, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives. So they all need to work together, sacrifice together, support one another etc as a family.
You gave me chills when you said only a dead Stark could pass… a true born Stark-Targaryen King. Awesome!
So, funny thing about the whole Dragon theory. You may actually be right. The thing is, in the book Fire and Blood, there is speculation from one of the tales of jacerys visiting winterfell, that his dragon Vermax allegedly laid sn egg in the crypts of winterfell, closest to the hot springs. Fire and Blood treats this as farfetch'd, but septum Barth, the man who is essentially correct about whatever he speaks on, does not think this to be far-fetched, and as a matter of fact states that he believes dragons can change their gender under specific circumstances or times, now... septum Barth is never wrong. And the fact that he actually gives Credence to this theory, along with the fact that if there was any place a dragon would feel a need to lay an egg in the far north, in winterfell, it would be the hot springs😮
a dragon in Winterfell makes no sense. why has no one seen it? how is it eating? why would it be happy just being a heating element in the crypt? the dragon in Winterfell is Jon. thats it.
Hot springs naturally pump water to the surface because of the difference in pressure. No other explanation is required. This is a cool idea but it's a massive stretch and there's no way this is going to be revealed in the books.
Cats as the embodied enforcers of entropy's increase is an underused trope :) Their mission is always destroying positional/potential energy by knocking everything down!
It would fit the symbolism if a dragon or something related was hidden beneath Winterfell. Jon was a dragon hidden in Winterfell.
Jon's not a Targaryen in the books.
@@williamhermann6635 Who is he then?
@@LegsON Hes a Stark/Dayne and hes going to become the new Sword of the Morning
@@williamhermann6635 George himself confirmed that he's a Targaryen.
@@LegsON Lmao that NEVER happened. Not once has George said R+L=J is true. In fact, he even described the show as "licensed fan fiction." George's wife was asked about R+L=J once. She laughed in the person's face and said that was far too simple and dumb for George's complex and epic story. Yeah sure D&D supposedly guessed Jon's true parentage accurately but with all the other changes to the show how can we be sure they didnt change Jon's parentage too? The answer is we cant, especially when you consider the show completely eliminated Young Griff's character and fused his arc with Jon's. Young Griff is far more likely to be the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna as he actually looks like a Targ. Jon Con catches himself staring at YG thinking how much he reminds him of Rhaegar. And YG dies his hair blue to honor his mother. Who is the only female character linked to the color blue? Lyanna with her winter roses. I believe the show even has easter eggs pointing to Jon being a Dayne and Mance Rayder being Arthur Dayne. At the TOJ scene, Arthur says to Ned "we wish you good fortune in the wars to come" and Mance says the exact same thing to Jon. Jon later says the same thing to Gendry. This phrase is only said by these 3 characters whom I believe to be Daynes. I think that may even be House Dayne's family words, which GRRM himself said he hasnt revealed yet because it would be too big of a spoiler. Also at TOJ, Arthur Dayne inexplicably carries 2 swords when he was only ever said to wield Dawn in the books. Before the battle begins, Arthur slams both swords point-first into the dirt. When Mance's host is raided by Stannis' army, Mance is carrying two short swords and throws them both in the dirt, just like Arthur. In the books, both Arthur and Mance say something along the lines of "we dont kneel" or "our knees dont bend easily." Nearly every referrence to Ashara Dayne is in unison with Ned Stark. Catelyn, Cersei, Edric Dayne, Meera and Jojen Reed, Barristen, and the Borrell from Sisterton all link Ned and Ashara. Cersei flat out accuses Ned of stealing Ashara's baby. When Catelyn confronts Ned about the rumor she heard about Ashara (keep in mind she doesnt even mention Jon's name here), Ned's word for word response was "Never ask me about Jon." Catelyn also described this exchange as the only time she ever actually feared Ned, implying he became visibly angry which is way out of pocket for Ned. So we even have Ned himself linking Jon and Ashara. Switching gears, nearly every big character Jon meets points out how much Jon looks and acts like Ned. Ned was the quiet wolf. Lyanna was the wild wolf and Jon shares none of her qualities beyond being able to ride a horse. He had no dragon dreams, no targ features, the closest thing he has to fire symbolism is a burned hand and a dream of wielding a burning sword. I mean where is this R+L=J nonsense even coming from? Are ya'll really that obsessed with Jon becoming an incestual dragon rider who kills his own aunt? Jon being a Dayne and weilding Dawn (a 1 of 1 sword thats the heavy favorite for Lightbringer) as the new Sword of the Morning is the best possible payoff for this story and so many of the clues point directly to it. Hell we even have examples of Jon pointing out the Sword of the Morning star in the sky. Do i really need to keep going? I can if you really want me to because theres even more evidence.
I don’t think the halls in Winterfell are that slanted. I think it was more that winter fell is huge and on a hill so one towers third floor could be at the lever of another’s second
They are somewhere between 50 and 100 feet tall. If we're being realistic, they would have to be slanted just to stay standing. If it is magic, then anything is possible.
@@inthefademc Escher built it
Also intetesting to note the importance placed on "returning to the Roots" in Elden Ring. Godwyn himself is placed on the roots when he is the first of the Gods to die. Stripped of his soul, the stagnation of his soulless body pumps into the roots, causing manifestations of Death to spring forth across the lands, i.e the death root you can find in hidden areas. I like to think grrm put some subtle hints about AsoiaF in his other works, including Elden Ring. Great video ,friend
The first chapters of the series make note of Lyanna being down in the crypts and that being weird because she wasn't a lord of Winterfell. You know who is constantly compared to Lyanna? Arya. Maybe her wearing a dead person's face counts? The Faceless Men have to know she kept Needle, so I am on board with your thoughts of them knowing she'll leave and training her anyways.
It would be interesting if the "there should always be a Stark in Winterfell" bit was a prophecy passed down the Stark line, similar to the Targaryen prophecy from the HotD show, that has been misinterpreted or skipped being passed on.
I think it will be something more boring like Lyanna's statue having something to clue Jon in about his parents, but these types of theories are very fun :)
About the Dragon over a burning Winterfell theory, I don't think it was a real Dragon because Bran would be freaking out in his later chapters and would be thinking about it all the time which he never does.
I think it was an illusion of smoke and flame that Bran put a name to.
However the fact that George _chose_ to describe it as a dragon is significant in some way and totally intentional. Could it be about Jon?
“Micheal talks about stuff”(known for the WALLter Cycle) you are at the pinnacle of theorists along with: “David lightbringer” (known for the mechanism of Long Nights, Moon Meteors) “a song of ice and toodles” (lots more speculation, but with heavy citation) “Preston Jacobs”(known for the Dorne Master Plan and Time-Travelling Bran) and “Cantuse” (known for The Night Lamp a chapter in the massive Stannis-fan theory The Mannifesto). You are totally fully cannon. Well my head-cannon includes 97% of your theories.
Did Summer see the comet? To a wolf the bright red with a tail might seem like a fire breathing snake. It would definitely be seen in the sky.
This doesn't explain how it disappeared but it would be above any clouds. Perhaps the clouds parted for only a minute or so, Summer saw the meteor, then the clouds resumed.
I've no idea if the search for Bran coincides with the birth of Dragons. I don't remember anyone at Winterfell talking about the comet before or after its sacking.
So my problem with the fires burning up the stars being the comet is that this and the snake are described in the context of something summer is actively seeing. Neither are described like they are "that thing that has been in the sky for months". If it was the comet it had been there for a long time and summer would have probably thought of it like "the snake that had been flying in the sky breathing flame" or the tall fires would have been "he saw the fires that had been eating the stars" something to imply he had seen it before. With the winged snake and the fires burning up the stars these things are seemingly new to summer. At least that is how it reads to me.
It is possible and GRRM could make it have been the comet and get away with it, but he could make it be a dragon and also get away with it. Which is usually how he likes it haha
Dont Luwin and Osha talk about it? Or Osha and Bran. Forgive me if im wrong, it's been a long while. And maybe im thinking of the show
@@littlebabycarrotful Maester Lewin is the first in the books to have seen it and study it. But Summer is never said to have seen it - as a comet or as a dragon - until Winterfell is on fire. A wolf doesn't have any sky-borne predators and most of their prey is ground-based. Their anatomy is for focusing on the ground with their horizontal positioning and their ability to follow scents. It is possible that Summer never bothered to look that far up until Bran was in control and made her do it.
While having a dragon at Winterfell would tie in very easily with the hot springs under Winterfell, there is no further word about where this dragon came from or where it went after Summer saw it. And that was several books ago. Summer is the only creature or person we know of to have seen it. This leaves a gigantic gap in the story if there is a fourth (or first?) dragon flying around somewhere in Westeros that no one has seen.
Because of this it seems more likely that what Summer saw was just Bran's interpretation of what Summer could comprehend. And that being the comet that Summer never bothered to look at before following the flames going up the castle walls.
GRRM likes to tell the 'truth' of an event based on a character's point of view rather than as what actually happened. I think this is a case of that.
The *only* issue with this entire thing is the "why Arya kills the NK in the show" part bc Dumb and Dumber did it bc they knew it would "subvert expectations".. which is the dumbest reason to ever do anything in a story. I like your idea way waaay more.
i think it adds up. they could hardly say, "well george is planning this mad twist and we want to be done and had no time to explain it".... they had to say something...
I agree with the other commenter it is starting to seem to me like at least a few of their dumb answers were just them making things up to justify wrapping it up without going into the magic without also just saying massive spoilers for the books. They can't just lay it all out like "well in the books GRRM will have her learn all this magic candle stuff and we didn't do that for these reasons, but she still had a central role and it kinda was the whole point of the "all men must die" thing. So that combined with her cool fighting skills and being sneaky we felt it was the best option."
So instead they just went with a bit about how much they subvert expectations when asked why Arya. They had to say something and couldn't say the real thing and thought they were being smart with a made up answer. They were not in fact being smart.
@@miaaaalein but GRRM left seasons before that.. Was mad at D&D (I mean, GRRM shouted out an entirely different show while GOT was airing lol) They had a little knowledge but how much has GRRM gardened differently in the 8 years since? Lol
@@michaeltalksaboutstuff like I said, I love your idea but I think you're giving D&D too much credit. Their relationship with GRRM was burned to the ground.
They had no problem with saying many other things were "George's plan".
Esp with how bad thats harmed their career.. There's just no way they wouldn't leak that Arya doing that was "following GRRM's plan".
Again.. they had no problem with saying that with all kinds of other things. Why would they keep THAT part quiet??
The amount of hate they got from doing that.. I just don't think it's possible they wouldn't have came out and said something like "it goes deeper in the books, but Arya killing the NK came from GRRM himself."
@@michaeltalksaboutstuff all these years later.. careers are still harmed. I'm pretty positive they would be very outspoken about how the stuff they are hated for actually came from GRRM.
3:28 i believe "topiary" is the word in regards to close-cropped trees. There's also the art form of bonsai, but in this context, I feel that "topiary" works best.
Where does it ever imply that people are bound to glass candles? And where does it say the wall rebuilds itself? I thought the builders of the nights watch were meant to cut large ice blocks from frozen lakes to do repairs on the wall
I don't see why a giant block of ice that's constantly being battered by snow would need repairing. It's always being repaired by the cold weather and snowfall.
@@Randy.Bobandy probably does get a bit from the weather, but I imagine that's not as structured as the nights watch might like it. I guess they are cutting blocks of ice from lakes to repair the parts that have lost too much of the basic shape for just passive weather to be able to repair on it's own? 🤷
I came back because this is the first video to ever acknowledge that Summer may have seen a dragon...i wrote on forums years and years ago about this and feel there is more evidence in the chapter of a dragon emerging from Winterfell. I want to poke you with this idea a few more ways in hopes of swaying you.
These thoughts were typed out 10 years ago now? And i havent re-read since then, so pardon any small errors, but i think i remember my main points accurately enough to put them here in hope of your consideration:
1) Prior to seeing the dragon The Direwolf hears a ROAR and feels a CRASH that shook the earth during the night.
I contend the roar was the dragon...roaring😅
The crash, was the feeling of the old tower collapsing as dragon escaped. Its the same tower Bran finds collapsed in the yard later whilst escaping.
2) Summer BELIEVES he sees Dragon
I wont belabor this point as you covered it. Id only add that the Direwolves have been shown to have amazing senses and Summer BELIEVES he saw a dragon - he literally bares her teeth at it. he was convinced to the point of growling.
3) Hodor forces open a door noisily at the moment of transitioning from Crypts to Ground Level - Osha remarks Hodor "made enough noise to *wake a dragon* "
Very interesting word choice for a Wildling. Not wake a Giant. Wake a dragon...
4) The First Keep is burned inside out, with stones strewn outward into the yard.
Dragon go roar, flame go ouch, tower go crash (thats what Summer felt and heard)
5) "One charred corpse, outside the ashen shell of Mother's Sept, sat with his arms drawn up and his hands balled into dark black fists..."
You really need a lot of pitch and flame to CHAR a human body. Even then, why would it be sitting up against a wall? Youd flail, scream, roll in the grass, anything to put out the flame if you were covered with oil and then lit. What type of flame could kill so instantly it all but freezes your corpse in place?
Perhaps a dragon, cornering you against a wall, forcing you to your haunches, putting your hands up as its gaping maw opens to instantly CHAR you where you sit?
The Charred man really did it for me...
Dragon stuff everywhere if you put on the lenses.
You will like the next video I am working on. That dragon has a major role in the next theory and I think I may have solved it. I think it might be a dragon we know the name of and I might know exactly why it was there.
TBH the dragon being secretly under a tower isn't a thing that clashes with why I think the dragon was there at that moment and those are some very good points. Especially that charred body pose... Maybe it was hanging out under a tower the whole time but I tend to think it was just stopping by. But I will have to pay attention for those clues next time I do a full re-read of that chapter
Just in response to the burned body, I’m pretty confident GRRM is describing “pugilistic stance” (boxer stance) which is characteristic of a burn victim. I don’t feel like googling this to provide more information as it’s too morbid for my tastes, but basically the pose isn’t a reflection of the actions the victim took but is instead due to muscle, skin and ligament shrinkage. I’m not dismissing the theory but I don’t know if this part is evidence as it lines up with the actions Ramsey took.
The story specifically says glass candles don't give off heat
I'm a gardener,not an architect.
- bran the builder probably
Brandon the HVAC Certified
isn’t the “dragon” the comet??? i mean, the river of flame is the comet’s tail, or am i mixing the timelines up?
the comet was already gone by that time
I think it’s just a natural hot spring. There’s plenty of probable volcanos in the north (skagos and hardhome), it could just be a minor hotspot. Or maybe there’s a fault line. I do think there is funky stuff with the crypts, but I’m not sold on specifically the glass candles and the tree and the circulation part of this theody
everything thats even slightly out of the ordinary or worth mentioning, bran talks about it with meera and jojen as soon as he comes back from warging...if he actually saw a real goddam DRAGON from summers eyes in the present, im pretty sure he would talk about it to no end to anyone who would listen
He doesn't talk to them about the RW right? There definitely could be other stuff but that's what comes to mind first for me and it's a pretty big one. Also, warging Hodor I guess
@@rhi-y8d he has reasons not to want to talk about both the things u mentioned....seeing a dragon burst out of winter fell would be the first thing he would mention to anyone who would listen
I'm not sold on any of the details (I think trying to work out the how of the magic is pointless, George isn't really bothered by the how) but I definitely agree that the ancient Starks were and maybe still are controlling or gaining from the Others somehow.
The first we learn of the Starks as a house is that they're somehow different from other houses, their motto is not a threat or a boast but a reminder. Buuuuut then the more we learn of them the more it's obvious that they aren't different from other houses, they are just another heriditary monarchy who fight wars for control of the land and people and commit a ton of war crimes in the process. I'm convinced that "Winter is Coming" was originally a threat from the Kings of Winter.
24:00 Could they also possibly use Robb's bones? It's been a while since I read the books but I don't think his body was returned to Winterfell after the Red Wedding. Robb was a Stark & crowned King in the North so he belongs in those crypts. Now that I'm thinking about this did Ned's bones ever make it back to Winterfell? Ned & Robb helping stop the Long Night even after death would be cool!
Professional Arborist chiming in here. I love all the tree facets involved in your over arching theory. A few bits of tree knowledge to think about. In this video you mentioned people shaping bushes into animal shapes, that is called topiary. There is another process called espalier, that involves shaping trees into a two dimensional structure. Often done with fruit trees, and developed for growing fruit inside castles along the walls. I have seen people use this method to grow organic walls. So the wall could be a massive espalier wall.
Second, in regard to Weirwood not having seeds that are easy to propagate. Aspen trees propagate by growing clones from the roots. Not by spreading seeds. This is why the most massive organism on the planet is a stand of aspen that covers hundreds if not thousands of acres. The weirwood could grow and spread the same way and would add biological credit to your theory about a weirwood root network covering Westeros. Something to think about.
Maybe Howlen Reed reveals to Lady Caitlyn Stoneheart that Jon Snow is not Ned's son, so there was no infidelity. She crowns Jon Snow woth Rob's crown, and Rickon shows up with Ned's bones. They all use this moment to go down into the crypt and place Ned among his predecessors. Where Arya shows up to reveal the secret of the glass candles. This would have the Starks (mostly) returning to their ancestral home and able to move past the stone guardians.
Kaytlyn Is literally called "Stone Heart" now, she is a Stark and she is dead. This could also be a person who would be allowed to pass into the crypts.
She is no Stark, but a Tully
what I understood about Bran the Builder, is that he took the Tree House concept to its logical limit 😂
There are escape tunnels to get out. I’m sure they go in different directions. With Mole’s town existing and the children of the forest being there historically there could be tunnels all the way up to the wall from winterfell.. I mean that’s a long way but the CotF lived in tunnel towns and such. Underground rivers and all that.
Jus saying, the pond might actually connect to the crypts, maybe a dragon could've come out that way
The dragon Summer saw could have been a “shadow baby” type / Other that “emerges from the wood”, being sent forth to do some task of some sort… but we never heard of a task being done, I don’t think.
Michael: there are trees in the walls
psychologist: are the trees with us now michael?
In time your videos will get better and you will sound a lot more captivating and inclusive. Good luck my man, I will keep an eye on the channel as I'm always after new ones to drift off to sleep to
I like it already. I thought I was done with ASoIaF theories, because I'm skeptical that the books will ever be finished by the original author. I was burned as a kid when I read all the Dune books and then continued where his son picked up the story. I had stopped watching them years ago.
But the theories being crafted here are really compelling as their own fiction, and it has got me back into it. The presentation is just fine, imo.
To add to the Starks having a piece of the puzzle, I could see Sansa having a similar arc in the end as in the show,where she is capable of rallying powerful allies to join the Stark cause, as we see her get Hollard, The Hound and Baelish all working to support her in times of grave danger
what qualities does sansa have? first thing that comes to my mind is that she learned from cersei.
how power is gained, how it works and most of all: how to manipulate people and make them do what you want.
she has encountered all the bad in people... joffrey, cersei, ramsay, littlefinger... she has the most knowledge about the rules of the game of thrones.
@@miaaaalein Yeah i think in one of her last chapters so far that she's figured Littlefinger out. She knows what he's up too, so she is learning.
I highly doubt Baelish is going to have a baby face turn lol. That dude is a devil and hes going down with his wicked ship.
We all live in the eye of a blue eyed giant.
you have the best and convincing theories man and the way you articulate them is truly magnificent. it would be cool if you talked about the land of the east like the dawn empire and the five forts because it has a lot of similarities to westeros events
I think the dragon was symbolic of the destruction that was unleashed maybe due to a stark no longer being in winterfell
Arya would put out candles, Dany breaks them free from the wall trees (breaker of chains) , Jon sups with the night king and leads them to idk maybe stark tombs? Their home tombs?
Probably, steam from the hot springs piped (chimney type) through-out the castle.
Please explain why winterfell went cold after the boltons took over. A bunch of blood was recently spilled in winterfell right before the boltons took over too.
I think the dragon Summer sees is a vision of the future; in the books Daenerys burns Winterfell when they refuse to bend the knee even after she helped them. The show just had her burn King’s Landing instead (and then immediately after it’s as if it had never been burned, Bran rules from the Red Keep and the city is presumably fine again, which makes no sense). This would explain how in the original outline Bran and Jon become enemies, and what Ned telling Bran someday he will have to execute someone and let them speak and then Jon appears over the hill signified ; Bran will have to sentence Jon for having supported Dany which resulted in the destruction of Winterfell.
You had me up until glasscandles. I think how the others were created in the show is effecting your theory. The only thing we kno about glass candles is the allow long distance communication and possibly dream walking. Now a case could be made for thats why the stark children dream about the crypts , however who would be send ing the visions. Like dannys visions came from quaithe. I think they entirely different magic than the weirwoods
GRRM has at least had the idea in his mind that the glass candles could be used to bind one to immortality as long as the flame lasts. He mentioned it in a version of the prologue for feast he didn't end up using. I brought that up in a few other videos. So you are correct those are the only canon powers we know for sure but he at least had the idea in mind they were used for more than that. Remains to be seen if the other powers ever make it into the full story however.
Hey man, love these theories! Is the dragon summer sees a red herring - the man rock stark against the swirling flames being the real clue, and I think also the man rock stark/statue description is in the Jeyne Poole wedding to Ramsey chapter against the swirling icy mists in the Godswood - are the Starks here to fight against both fire & ice? The intimation is the rocky stark statues will rise & fight against a literal dragon towards the endgame at winterfell as opposed to there being a literal dragon already there? The hardskin description could just be armour, or maybe not... Jon & his true identity is also the dragon under WF. And the fact it's from the POV of a wolf, and they're called summer does make me think endgame more? Either way love your theories and the ideas they create!
Been saying this for years...Summer saw a dragon and there is oodlee of dragon evidence in that chapter
Love this, I’m honestly not a big fan of the glass candles as a concept but I think I wouldn’t mind it if this was the way it ended
I'm also not a glass candle fan. If I recall correctly, deeper in the old parts of the crypt, etched in sone are words written in an ancient language nether Jon or Sansa can decipher. Sansa feels a cold fear creep up her body and decides the whole matter can wait, so they leave. I'll have to go back and read the books yet again. Þhis ancient section and the writing are important, likely having to do with Winterfells origin story. 'The Keep made by magic, the Children of the Forest, The First men and the first Stark.. The dragon exists, kept safe by the warmth of the springs and the blood from the tree roots. Dani hatched the eggs with blood and fire. There is a pact made which is the last, best hope. It's Winterfells origin and reason for being.
I will wake up eventually. Coffee has brewed. Fly morning Muse! Fly!
I do think there is volcanic activity under Winterfell.
Just look at Valyria, and Dragonstone. Both are places the Targaryens have raised and housed Dragons.
I think volcanic activity has something to do with the dragons and keeping them alive.
I could be wrong. Wouldn't be yhe first time, lol😂.
Hopefully we get to find out one day!
Probably the fire that light bringer needs to be pulled out of is under winterfell. It was supposedly founded around the time of the long night by Bran The Builder and it’s name would suggest it is the location where winter literally fell. Like the location where the Battle for the Dawn happened or just where Azor Ahai was buried with his sword.
The idea of a Dragon is bunkers. How does it survive? What does it eat? How has noone noticed the dragon? Do they not die of old age, as Belaryon did? Besides, a column of smoke coming out of a great fire through the eyes of a wolf very well might look like a dragon.
Do you guys ever watch these videos and wonder if GRR watches them too and sometimes just takes our takes and recontextualises what he wrote earlier because he didn’t consider what we do?
No.
Jon could also go in the crypts because he has technically already died.
honestly george should just watch your videos and finish the book using your ideas
cant get enough of this theory ty
What were the toilets and the shits in this winterfell 💀💀
1. If Bran saw a dragon come out of Winterfell he would have told Meera and Jojen
2. Glass candles don’t start burning until clash of clans when Dany’s dragons are born, meaning there were no dragons in existence before then
3. For dragons to be born in Westeros they have to be near Dragonstone
1. I agree
2. In one of Bran's early chapters, when he is learning "to fly," if we assume that 3ER is showing him real things that are actually happening (and some are actually happening), Bran sees dragons in the far east. That is not fully conclusive that there are dragons, but neither is your statement.
3. that doesn't seem to be the case, unless you consider KL to be near dragon stone
@@altmailacctother2348 that dragon in brans dream is probably just an early oversight by Martin since there are multiple instances of people noticing magic working stronger, like the magicians in Qarth. And kings landing is very close to dragon stone
@@jimboslice6367 youtubes comments interface just sucks
Kingslanding is more than 300 miles as the crow flies. Morning was born in the Vale, which is farther. The Targaryens don't believe that dragonstone is the only place in westeros they can be born. So, I am gonna go with your 3. is just not correct.
Bran isn't dreaming. Bran is having an interactive vision given to him by a powerful greenseer. There are multiple comments that there might be dragons east of Asshai. None of this is fact. But we do not know in planetos that there are no dragons left.
Finally, your assumptions may be very likely, but they aren't fact. Magic is getting stronger, everyone agrees. Everyone assumes it is the Dragon's returning, but it could be, whatever allowed the dragons to hatch is the cause, and not the dragons themselves. I.e. it is correlation instead of causation.
The way you wrote your comment is that these are statement of facts, but, they are not. They are assumptions, possiby very strongly founded, but not conclusively so.
@@altmailacctother2348 I didn’t know about Morning in the Vale, but a Targaryen was still present so I can amend my statement by saying it must hatch on dragonstone or must be with a Targaryen. Still disqualifies Winterfell.
And at the end of Game of Thrones “ and for the first time in hundreds of years, the night came alive with the music of dragons”. That’s what makes Dany’s dragons significant, there were none before then. And aemon and other Targaryens dream of dragons returning, meaning they are gone
@@jimboslice6367 im not saying they are not gone, im saying you can't say it is a fact...direct quote from martin:
There are no more dragons known to exist... but this is a medieval period, and large parts of the world are still terra incognita, so there are always tales of dragon sightings in far off mysterious places. The maesters tend to discount those
he uses the word known...and he probably means by westeros and west essos...he doesn't say conclusively that they are gone.
Ser Pounce is Azor Ahai
honestly, ur theories, spec the wall n wierwood trees one.. are by far the best ive heard. they also actually make sence for the whole story(without alotta picking and ommiting, like many other theories) a few of ur general theories seem to fit so perfectly in the world, story and types of magic in this world. i hope GRRM hears this kinda stuff, so even if thats not his original idea, he still can incorperate it in some way.. *Also, u know how TLOTR and its whole fantasy world, which is so enormous and full off lore and backstories and created enviroments for the people and creatures.. was very much helped and formed by fans and friends of Tolkien. It can be very hard for one person to build such huge complete detailed worlds and stories.. and their are so many other bright heads out there, that can help grow these worlds and cannon, together with the original builder/writer.. to create such amazing Fanatasy worlds and stories, as if their own real enormous history exists, in so many facceted ways. with so many details that fit logicaly. So i think GRRM should really enbrace all the fan theory and lore, and pick and work on certain parts that he likes, and fit his story, and help make the whole thing even bigger and more interesting and real. If he is not 100% sure how to progress his books now, he should really just work together with others, in a world n story buiding group.. cuz even with just a couple youtube nerds, he would be able to write out this world n story/ies fast n easy.. with accuracy as far as the whole lore and history and connon building and story building he has already done in the past books.. cmon dude.. Just do it! lmao
Just curious what happens to winterfell after the candles are put out? The heat seems like an important part to it being so inhabitable especially during harsh weather.
No as harsh winters, so no need.
2 things... it's also stated dragons dont survive capitivity... AKA, it would be practically impossible for a dragon to live down there for so long.
Other thing is, I find it much more likely it's just yknow.. water is pumped up the same way as the wall, but it's from a hotspring... But if you TRULY wanna take the higher magic way, I think a lava worm or whatever they are called is much more likely. They produce asexually for a start, and they are a worm, so they'd thrive down there.
hi! your theories feel like I've leveled up in my tsoiaf lore game. like now im in phd program😂
yes, i totally agree! been following a variety of asoiaf youtubers for a looooong time, looking for new thoughts and theories. read the books so often that i lost count, but this new dude here has come up with the most exciting stuff in the last few years
I won't promote another channel on someone else's since I feel like that could be construed as rude. But there are several EXCELLENT channels along side this one, each with different perspectives and takes on these puzzle pieces. I highly encourage you to watch a lot of them from different people. You'll feel like you're truly undetstanding the series for the first time
@@ThommyofThenn thanks for your good intentions. asoiaf is my passion for a loooong time already, as i am old ^^
i would dare to boast of knowing every relevant youtuber on this subject in two languages :o) same goes for reading the books...
@@miaaaalein in that case I thank you for being patient. :0) always great to meet people who share such a deeply seated love for this universe.
And I am a regular in two of these channel's livestreams so I will be on the lookout and hope to see you there!
@@miaaaalein oh, and I was going to ask, what is the second language? Finnish? Tigrinya? Or perhaps Holikachuk?
I always thought that the statues coming to life was a dumb idea until now. If they are undying stone wights it makes sense.
first impression: wow! i am stunned by this amazing theory, which could be IT...
need to think about it, though
an afterthought: we assume the cold is the danger.
what if the others are not only not the real threat, but part of the solution for the real real danger?
i mean, george is all about balance, not only black and white without grey, etc... what if it is neither ice nor fire, but balance?
maybe the real threat is some extreme heat source and the others are trapped in the north to counter balance that?
maybe azhor ahai did some serious damage by creating lightbringer, a sword that burns and gives off heat. brandon the builder might have tried to repair that with the wall, trapping the others in the north because their cold effect is needed to keep the everlasting (because magical) effects of lightbringer itself under control?
what bothers me is the thought that there has to have been a reason to be afraid in the first place. why exactly are the others trapped up there? just because they have a mean look to them? just because people were prejudiced when they first encountered them? seems to me to be a bit too shallow for grrm's writing style...
The oldest tower Bran fell from, where the 3 eyed crow told him to fly, is where I think the dragon was locked. We never describe the size of said dragon. And we know they need heat to survive, they aren’t used to produce heat.
But JRRM isn’t really keeping track of his plot lines anymore.
I do remember when Bran and co. came up and looked around they see the oldest tower had a wall busted out and the floors "burned out"
It's not a mystery. It's geothermal heat ie hot springs. Its mentioned in the books.
Feels like watching an episode of ancient aliens haha
There is some evidence of a dragon egg beneath Winterfell in the prequel books, however I think it could be entirely metaphorical. For what, I have no idea
What is your patreon and how do i give you all my money?
the dragon in Winterfell, if there is one, because it may have been kept in the crypts for an extended period of time, perhaps because it's such a confined area the Dragon simply didn't grow very large.
Keep in mind they're similar to sharks in the regards that they grow to fill their space, I'm assuming the crypts of Winterfell aren't described as large enough to hold a Dragon
The dragon sumner saw could have just been bran seeing a glimpse of the long night while warging
Video idea. Have we met a green man in the story.........
Tyrion meets a boy with goat legs while in mereen.....
Good insurance against the Targaryens from burning Winterfell. "Set our Castle on Fire, you'll hatch a Drægon."
No mention of the fact that the Crypts are basically an infinite source of king’s blood? If the walls are roots, thousands of dead Starks could be Bloodravened into the weirwood net (but thankfully dead… hopefully). Or not…
I like the way you explain your theories, even though most of them make me say "nope."
When i read the book and came to 'the winged snake' passage i honestly didnt for a second consider an actual dragon. My initial read on it then was this was just how Summer was interpreting a column of smoke & fire. Dunno what i think now
So if book lore hints at dragons not being able to fly over the wall as seen with queen alysane, hitting that what happen in the show RE Danny and her dragons and the night king may not happen exactly that way in the books perhaps this winterfell dragon because of the weird wood Magic’s can be the one 🧐
Solid hypothesizing. All really adds up once accepting Dragonglass as a "power source" of some kind of fire/dragon based energy for magic's sake. Since they're also used for communication between two parties separate from insertion from any body, they'd presumably do some weird things with communication in other ways and could make an excellent basis for a global weirwood network.
Ok so there are glass candles in the roots of the Winterfell weirwood , keeping it alive, and heating Winterfell, and also this is connected to the wall. But the key question is why bother to go to all this trouble to keep the wall going? Also, what was the point of having humans inside the walll? How does that enhance the magic?
To make the ice demons who can add to the cold. The glass candle is pierced into their heart- likely someone with old blood or with some magical power- and pinned into the tree. They're kept alive, but the corruption causes the freezing
ı think the faceless man need people with iron will and noble purpose.For those in the sect this noble ideal is working for their death god. And once they realize the reason for Arya oing what she does is not just because of revenge but also because "the man who passes the sentence must swing the sword".So once they realize Arya is not a rogue killer but one with a glorious purpose they will release her.
It always seemed to me that there must be some connection between the Wall, the saying that "There must always be a Stark in Winterfell" and Stark house words "Winter is coming". And just as all Starks leave or are about to leave Winterfell, suddenly all shit hits the pan, Others and the Long Night are coming.
Also, if it was just about Stark blood, surely there are lots of descendants of Stark bastards running around Winterfell. In this world some sort of acknowledgment of your roots seems to be important
The night queen is imprisoned below the crypts...
Tyrion saw it you fools
That is brilliant. You made an awesome theory that works
"Making Summer imagine a dragon..." 8:11
🗣 I FEEL IT IN MY BONES
Damn u make perston jacobs sound reasonable
just watched this after watching the nettles=nan=leaf video and made me think what if it’s sheepstealer that’s in her lair under winterfell and her fires are warming the waters
unlikely but fun idea
*edit*- he kinda made this point
Trees are not good at pumping water at temperatures where the water would become ice. "Pumping" really isn't the right term for transpiration anyway.
Yeah haha I am no biologist and there is certainly some magic involved on some level. Maybe the right word is just "transportation" of water from the underground to not underground which would be useful/needed to build the wall from the underground water sources.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transpiration
The detailed info I can find on transpiration all mentions photosynthesis, which leaves me wondering how it actually works for albino plants like Wierwoods that lack chlorophyll. I just found a few short statements saying that in albino plants transpiration is slower and the water content inside their tissues a bit higher.
Maybe it’s the magic of the weirwood tree recognizing the starks have followed tradition and have done as they said they would in the oath years ago with the children and all that