Primitive Technology: Volute Shaped Blower
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- Опубліковано 2 жов 2024
- Primitive Technology: Volute Shaped Blower
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About This Video:
I made a volute shaped blower where the housing for the fan is volute shaped, that is to say a widening spiral to test the effectiveness of a one way spinning impeller. The previous blower design is tear drop shaped so that the direction that the fan spins is un important. Also with the previous design the impeller spins one way and then the other as it is powered by a simple string mechanism.
In the new design, a weight was employed in the form of a heavy log attached to the rotor. The top of the rotor is held and the weight spun to create rotation. This method produces less rpm than the original but allows the fan to be spun continuously in one direction only. To compensate for the lower rpm, the fan was doubled in size (from 25 cm to 50 cm) to increase blade tip speed and so air speed.
Now with a fan that spins in one direction only, a housing could be used to take advantage of this fact. A volute is an expanding spiral and housing for fans that are volute shaped help guide the air from the center to the outlet more efficiently than a tear drop shaped one. This was made using mud on the ground as opposed to a clay portable one as it was starting to get too big to transport.
The fan was tested in an iron smelt. Disappointingly, it only produced a bit of iron in the form of much smaller prills than usual due to the low rpm and hence air pressure than the original blower. After some rough calculations from research, this design might become competitive with the original blower if the fan diameter was scaled up to 1m diameter from the original 25 cm diameter fan.
The advantage of this design is that it is simpler and has fewer components than the original as there is no string that needs replacing. The dis advantage is that for it to produce good pressure it's diameter needs to be scaled up to the point where it is no longer compact and portable.
About Primitive Technology:
Primitive technology is a hobby where you build things in the wild completely from scratch using no modern tools or materials. These are the strict rules: If you want a fire, use a fire stick - An axe, pick up a stone and shape it - A hut, build one from trees, mud, rocks etc. The challenge is seeing how far you can go without utilizing modern technology. I do not live in the wild, but enjoy building shelter, tools, and more, only utilizing natural materials. To find specific videos, visit my playlist tab for building videos focused on pyrotechnology, shelter, weapons, food & agriculture, tools & machines, and weaving & fiber.
#PrimitiveTechnology #volute #fireblower
I tested the idea that some viewers suggested to make the blower hand cranked so that it spun in one direction only and to shape the housing to take advantage of this. It was suggested that even with the hand crank ratio of 1:1, the advantage would be apparent over the original intermittent high rpm blower powered with a string. This blower prototype produced a high volume but low pressure air flow due to the sacrifice of rpm due to the 1:1 ratio. I did some rough calculations after making it and think that if the fan were scaled up to 1m as opposed to the 50 cm fan in the video, it might start to compete with the original blower design for the current rpm. I made a 1 m diameter fan but was unwieldy though it might have worked with more testing, time constraints prevented using it in this project. For now I'll stick to the previous blower design till I can increase the continuous rotation rpm with a durable mechanism. Or test positive displacement bellows and natural draft modes of air supply in up coming projects.
Might not have been a success, but it still blew my mind.
I'm particularly excited to see if a draft furnace design is able to achieve the air flow you need
Perhaps if you could power it with wind or water, it might be a viable design, but as long as it’s muscle-powered the old version seems to be significantly more efficient, not to mention less tiring.
@@GuitarGrooveSessions It may still work if scaled up as a greater fan diameter for the same rpm gives twice the pressure I think. Thanks.
can i ask iff u live in there
Just passing on the message that he has closed captions that explain each step in detail. A true craftsman to the core
Thanks man, this was super helpful. I flipped it on as soon as I read your comment and it was nice to see each step and such.
🙏
Thank you so much!!!
Oh thanks for this. Turned it on the moment I read this
Maybe now I'll actually understand the video earlier instead of right at the end 😅
일단 여러가지 조건이 좋은 환경이다..덥지도 않고 습하지도 않고 비도 많이 오지 않고 벌래도 적고 마른땅이고 조용하고 나무가지도 많아 불피우기 좋고, 이런 조건이라면 서바이벌이나 원시기술 하기 좋은 조건이다..그렇지 않으면 당신은 일주일도 못버틴다..식량은 재배안하기로 한걸보니 서바이벌은 아닌듯하다. 식량구하기가 제일 어려운 과제이다. 그는 오로지 원시기술로 만드는것만 한다. 벌써 5년동안.
My jaw dropped when you first demonstrated that off-center slung counterweight for spinning in one direction. So simple, but effective
I can't imagine it was easier for him to sustain its motion compared to the string-powered version. The added weight, using one arm vs two, and which muscles each motion uses probably added up to the overall less effective result. That said, I'm only speculating.
I think technically it's a flywheel, not a counterweight 🤔
@@Aaron-ne4krHe can just switch arms when he gets tired
Would you say that... it blew your mind?
@@Aaron-ne4kr The string-powered version also reverses direction on every other pull. With the old symmetrical blower that's fine, since the efficiency is the same in both directions, but this volute blower is most efficient when the blades are moving the same direction as the outlet.
Absolutely incredible use of physics. The fact that we know enough about the laws of the universe that we can translate a simple wobble of the hand into such a forceful release of energy is incredible.
No one is saying how this man is essentially making a turbocharger out of sticks and mud lol this is brilliant! Love your stuff man!
I thoght the same thing, but he's not using the exhaust of the fire to feed into the blower. I wondered if there's a way to use the exhaust and some bernouli effect to pull fresh air into the cycle. Then it'd really be a turbo.
+5 hp to flintstones car
@@Joe-nb3fs Would that smother the flames with all the CO2 from the fire exhaust?
@@Joe-nb3fs yeah he did that already, its named down draft kiln.
@@sithlordzach8418 What I was suggesting did have the problem that it was cycling some gas. The bernoulli effect to pull new air in would still mix in some exhaust, so that's not ideal. With a true turbocharger, the exhaust is routed through a turbine, which compresses fresh air intake and pumps the fresh air into the engine. The exhaust is only used for its kinetic energy to drive the turbine. In a simple application, he could route all of the exhaust past a fan (a simple turbine) that drives a secondary intake blower.
Watching you work and hearing how long it took, you have some amazing patience. Even if this didn't work out, your pyrotechnology videos are something I never miss. Thanks for what you create!
Thanks, I'll keep more projects coming with your support, stay tunned and much appreciated.
You should make it powered by the creek could be a stepping stone from primitive to mid evil technology as you already have valuables and tools like iron
will you go buy some wood and stones from home depot?@@primitivetechnology9550
I think the next thing to look into, as long as you're using centrifugal blowers, is the feasibility of some sort of belt and pulley system to generate a mechanical advantage. RPMs are critical to performance on this type of blower, so anything you can do to increase that will give you the biggest boost in performance.
I immediately thought about how a creek/river could be used similar to his water hammer video from a while ago to generate constant, high RPMs and zero fatigue
Careful, or it won't be long before he creates a primative motor and finds himself back in the industrial revolution.
@@unibrowsheepZ With his current charcoal consumption, it would be a "green" transition 😁
I feel like I'm listening to a stone age computer nerd. In a good way!
I was thinking he could make a really long rope with loops for the gear teeth, then you connect the ends into a circle and endlessly pull to power the drive.
I love this sort of "applying modern knowledge to older technology" stuff, it's so cool.
And to think, some people probably figured out some of this stuff without knowing how or why it works!
The legend returns to satisfy his audience once more
He's been back a while
For sure. And whenever there is an easy-going brick-making episode or blower episode, you know that soon he is about to jump into the Iron Age.
Hi i'm HoloAdvent's little fan who often ask comparison and/or timeline about Nerissa Ravencroft and/or sometimes Shiori Novella.
I believe if you make that fire pit tube taller, you can get a hotter temperature. It Hass to do with the air pressure inside of a taller to being forced out unless you don’t necessarily want the temperature to be hotter than what it is already. I haven’t read what your goals were for this one.
This guy always pulls an audience.
This is absolutely brilliant. Using an acorn as a socket is really ingenious.
I'm sad that it turned out less efficient than the original blower.
probably cause the original was made off screen with more modern tools lol
@@mrbushi1062 ua-cam.com/video/fR9u2oLHFN8/v-deo.html
This Man shows literally every single thing he makes on camera and how he does it.
@mrbushi1062 : "MuH hE pRoBaBlY uSeD a MoDeRn tOol"
grow up man.
@@mrbushi1062 He made it in a previous video... PT doesn't fake his videos like almost all of the others that followed him.
@@mrbushi1062 are you dense?
I have been so obsessed with this channel since the first video and ive learnt so much. I live in nz and i am surrounded by dense forests and bush, so whenever i watch these i always try to do it myself. Im currently progressing through the stone age. Just finished my first hut and ive been looking for clay for ages lol now im back home chillin after all day in the bush lol, love u primitive technology
you can find clay by digging the soil deep enough. river erode soil so the clay be expose too
@@mandalamarcho7997yeah research where riverbeds were in the past
Can't be in the Manawatu, 30cm under the soil is solid clay where ever I go.
Ah man that’s the dream
While most people struggle making fire in the wild, John goes ahead and makes a supercharged furnace. Bravo.
Fake Video
@@jackyo3214 Why? Are you Chinese?
@@jackyo3214 Get out of here, Chinese
@@jackyo3214 Don't get us dirty
@@__03492 lmao care to elaborate?
i love that you post your successes and failures both. it really helps get across that real life experimentation isn't just moving from great idea to great idea, you have to sift through the bad ones to get to the best ones.
Im remembering back to the primitive lathe the Townsdends channel made not to long ago, and I wonder if it'd be possible to set up a fan with the same mechanism, using a foot peddle and a live branch as a spring. If so, it'd be much less tiring to operate I'd imagine
I had the same thought its so weird to see a comment with the same thought process
@@TheSethhunt he definitely needs to incorporate leg power. Im more than positive his shoulders and arms are aching to painfull levels and this is hindering his iron smelting attempts. Man did not master the iron age without significant mechanical help as well as that from others. like someone operating bellows while another fed the furnace with charges of charcoal/coal and ore.
Yes! A spring-pole lathe. Treadle would probably be ideal, but this can be made easier without metal parts.
"Townsdends" or Townsend? 🤔
I've been wanting him to make a primitive lathe for some time. It would be a good use for the metal blade he made. It won't work as a good knife but would work as a cutting tool on a lathe.
Another great video John. I hope people appreciate how quickly you can make fire from a drill stick, you get fire quicker than most people could with matches. For the people that don’t know John has a book out of which I have owned a copy for sometime now, it is a fantastic read and I highly recommend it to all viewers of this channel. Keep up the great work John and look forward to whatever you tackle next.
Please name the book! Amazon?
Yeah! It was mega impressive.
Watching you slowly perfect your skills and improve techniques over time is such a satisfying journey. I'm so glad you're taking us with you on it.
Make sure the step down pipe in your blower has a smooth gradual step down. During the inside view, it looked like it was filled in flat, then the hole in the middle. Those flat surfaces will decrease efficiency by causing the air to turn 90 degrees.
@@normanberg6502 Huh?
@@selensewar sorry, UA-cam added my comment to the video as a reply to your comment
@@normanberg6502 ah :D A happy accident! That happens.
I think you should preheat the air that goes into the kiln.
E.g. make a ceramic heat cross flow exchanger by layering straws with clay at 90deg and making a cube.
One direction = exhaust of fire 1. The 90deg direction - input of the fire 2.
That way you can shift your starting point up and essentially recreate a marten's furnace.
Thanks I'll research it. A preheat was important in the industrial revolution for reducing fuel and increasing yield of smelters. Much appreciated.
Its a nice approach, but hot air carries less oxygen, that’s why the incoming air isn’t used even to refrigerate the ovens’ carcasses. What is pre heated in marten’s oven is the gaseous fuel, no the air.
@@MarceloRodrigues-ff6vc i'm quite certain it is air preheated in marten's furnaces cause there's about 15 times more of it required than fuel. and it is going to less dense when heated but amount of oxygen stays the same 20%
A Recuperator should be Way simpler than an Exchanger.
Industrial Iron Smelting uses three Stacks that get switched around, but two could be good enough.
Ceramic Tiles as the thermal Mass and two Valves to change them between the Intake after the Blower and the Exhaust in Front of the Chimney.
Otherwise a big Stack of Tiles that are being fired anyway might work too.
If the Chamber for the Firing of the Pottery comes after a Blower and ends in a Chimney you could fill the Chimney with the smelting Mix after the Ceramic is done. (I don’t know how problematic it is to cool it quickly, but simple Balls of low Quality Clay could yield Grog for other Products at least.)
Blower -> Burn Chamber -> Pottery Chamber -> Chimney
Connect the Blower after the Pottery is done with natural Draft or stock the Burn Chamber trough the Blower.
Throw the Charcoal and Iron Oxide in the Chimney.
-
Mixing the "Ore" Powder with Charcoal Dust for the initial roasting shouldn’t hurt afterwards.
@@primitivetechnology9550
Absolutely love the content --- the time and effort 🥇
I was thinking instead of building a skyscraper for the fire kilns always, the tediousness of getting clay and casting thick deep moulds for kilns,
Why not build a groundscraper, build it upside-down. I mean if it's possible to dig an equivalent hole, maybe 50/60cm deep × 20/30cm wide and spare just little effort to add thin lining of clay to it and create 2 side holes, 1 for air intake from the tuyere blower, and the other for exhaust gas.
You could mould a lid to yet retain more heat.
I believe this system would greatly increase thermal efficiency and heat up better and hotter, as the ground acts as a good insulator to retain heat.
Watch Europa the Last Battle!
Really 8 years? And it doesn't look like he's aged a day.
@@wawatchdog89 he even wrote a book about all this!
@@wawatchdog89 that's the secret of the man, man. He had spent millions of years gathering knowledge from broken civilizations, and the fact that his short UA-cam existence showing him literally staying the same said a lot of things about this immortal man known to us as John Plant :>
@@awli8861and i have it 😁
few more years and hes splitting the atom and landing on moon
Incredible video, so much work put into this, I'm in awe. Your entire channel should be a curriculum in schools.
If this stuff were taught in school, I’d look forward to every lesson
same@@silentcartoonist
Much appreciated, I'll keep them coming,
Under what subject study? Teaching kids growing up in a city how people can make small amounts of metal alone in the forest to appreciate the history of our species?
Applied engineering, chemistry, and physics. @@gastonmarian7261
Using that split segment attached to the shaft as an eccentric weight is *really* clever. You’re achieving relatively high rpm’s with very little effort and the construction and operation are extremely simple. Excellent.
Simple tools yield complex results. My guy gets it
Simplicity is sign of a genious brain
🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓
Bro, this isnt even primitive anymore. This is modern but using primitive material. But nevertheless, I like it even more
@@xalovaid3693 it shows what would be possible with our current knowledge in a scenario in which we need to get around with what nature provides us
What I realise from watching all your videos is this
1. You have way more energy than I do lol
2. It really does take a village.
The amount of labour required for 'simple' tasks is such that you need the wood cutter and clay digger, the dozen other occupations to make it sustainable. Either that or just one guy with unlimited energy and patience
It takes a bit to get up and running like making a stone chisel / axe and cords from grass blades. Once u get the technique for fire making w sticks things get easier as u keep doing it. He's finding shortcuts to preserve his energy and get better results. Some work some don't it's trial and error we learn from his actions.
Every time I see his videos I think of those reality shows where they have to survive in the wild like "survivor" etc and think these tricks would make u top dog in the group if u learn them. All the chicks would want to be in ur team 🤣🔥
Looking at our modern diets. I often ponder having to grow, and harvest and grind all the grain by hand. Imagine how much work it would take to make a bowl of cornflakes lol. It's really no wonder modern humans have modern problems like insulin resistance.. We're very clever monkeys, but I don't know if we're winning the game with our fancy machines sometimes.
@@M3rVsT4H insulin resistance is a small price to pay for guaranteed food security imo though
@@M3rVsT4HI remember reading an article where they asked a hunter gatherer if he would move to a farm life he said no he works for 2 hours a day to get enough food then does what ever he wants.
no
@@andrewlalis
this guy alone has almost built an entire stone age village, this is just amazing!
He’s nearly in the Iron Age
And now he’s well into the Iron Age… The man, the shorts, the legend.
He's going to reach for the stars sooner or later
I've seen some Vietnamese guy basically do that. I forgot what his channel was but seemed like an actually legit one.
@@JigglesMcRibsFake news
Using centrifugal force with just a heavier stick to get steady fan rotation is both at once so simple and brilliant at the same time! It looks like less work to get more air flow?
I wonder if this is leading to video's for making higher quality steel, this is the kind of thing that really hits the spot for me with this channel.
Read his pinned comment. The volume of air increases abut the pressure is lower due to lower rpm, canceling the positive effect out on this practical size.
You should Watch his videos with subtitles on, he explain that It took double the work to melt the same Amount of iron, It was lower quality and he stopped early because It was unconfortable to use
Not really, it shows the result somewhat underwhelming, perhaps making it foot pedal like pottery wheel or spindle would help steady and efficient power input
Its cool that you're at such an stable and built-up point now that you're able to use your resources to freely and dynamicly explore experimental designs such as this. I hope you've learned a lot and will continue to experiment and pioneer your technique!
I also REALLY like how he showed ALL steps...even the 'simple ones'; like splitting the short poles. Wow!
I was thinking about how you would need a single direction or rotation for this design, and I had not thought of using momentum from an offset counterweight to keep up rotational momentum. Kudos!
What you do is awesome, keep improving the smelting technique, I want to see what you can do with decent metal tools!
Will do, am looking at making tools with the iron I've made already. Much appreciated.
@@primitivetechnology9550 You skip the Bronze Age?
@@bigsiege7684 well for bronze age you need copper and tin. And while copper can be reasonably found it is a lot harder to get tin. that fact was also one of mainreasons of bronze age collapse
The man that started a whole new trend of videos on YT and ... years later, still nobody quite doing the same quality - passion.
With a round shaped inner bottom edge you ll avoid turbulences hence a faster blow. adding a weight at the end of "flywheel"will allow you to use a kind of thin board for the impeller. And as always, Thank You!
Definitely not what I was expecting for the log use that acted as a counter weight, funnily enough I saw something a little similar in my mechanics class recently
I saw an interesting design for double action bellows from a vid about Indonesian blacksmithing, it consisted of two vertical wooden tubes (bamboo I think) with basically a large feather duster in each one. The bunches of feathers acted like a valve, allowing air to pass as they were lifted and forcing it ahead of them as they were pushed down. With two in operation, being worked alternately, the smith managed to get a pretty steady stream of air .
I also seen a double action bellows design from historical African smelting that worked well, which was two pillows that were kneaded like dough with each hand alternating. Ultimately we know bellows were a winning technology, the catch is bellows would kinda need some sort of animal hide to be practical at this stage right? I'm not sure John could easily introduce those materials to the channel in the same way he has been with other materials.
@@Fe7Ace that’s why I thought the ‘feather duster’ design might work here, you could probably get a similar effect with leaves or plant fibres, well within the scope of his available materials.
@@Oldtanktapper Oh you mean the air chamber was JUST the wood? Yes that is interesting. I would have thought it would leak like a sieve.
Doubt he would ever involve animal or introduce external element, you know hoe stingy youtube enforcing their rule when it comes to animal treatment (sometimes)
@@Fe7AceIt was in a Clay housing, wooden piston and feathers to prevent leaking on the piston side
This is the first video Iv seen since a few years and damn I can’t believe he’s made it to the Iron Age. Well done.
This guy is the reason I started doing bushcrafting and I love it
Bushcrafting is a dying art, and it's very unfortunate.
@@iamvee87 it is especially with my generation I started doing it when I was 18 years old my family had a plot of land in the the wilderness about 25 km from where I live in the short time I've managed to build a a cab in there a sauna hot bathtub I also managed to build in hot water a stove and other things I'm currently 25 years old i love it
@@iamvee87 it's amazing for the mind and the soul to just disconnect from everyone and just enjoy the peace and quiet
@@iamvee87 To be fair.. owning the land to do it on is also more and more rare, which probably plays a role.
I would love to try my hand at things shown in these videos, but I own a grand total of 60 feet by 60 feet of "land" and struggle to afford even that :P
I do bushcraft every night. My girl loves it.
Honestly so real for saying "yeah I got tired after a while", like that's the thing that sets these so far above other similar videos - it's clearly trial and error and John is super transparent about it
Always amazing to watch you work these things out. I think twin leather or other animal tissue (like bladder) bellows, each with a simple one-way flap valve, joined at a Y to create a single output flow is probably where the simplest of forges historically all end up going.
Yes - to push air 1-way through the furnace.
The hell with that, use a human bladder! As long as we don't give a shit about killing, let's go nuts with it. @@lazygardens
I could listen to that fire roaring for ages.
That sound is embedded in our DNA
Interesting idea on improving your blower. Have you considered making a box bellows? Maybe the case could be made with clay, and use bark for the piston and the flaps for each intake. Your videos are really enjoyable, and educational.
Yes, it's on my list. I made a prototype bellows from clay and the valves do work. But the piston broke after some use. However, some design changes should fix this. I'll attempt another and if it's successful I'll post the video. Much appreciated.
@@primitivetechnology9550 Bellows are usually made of animal skins.
Why don’t you use animal materials in your videos?
@@呵呵-n8d Shockingly I think there's merit to approaching this from a non-violent perspective. This is just a hobby thing, and taking the lives of animals purely for sport isn't really the goal of the channel.
@@primitivetechnology9550 I don't know if this would be moving too far outside your normal wheelhouse, but aside from not showing primitive hunting (for UA-cam reasons) could you showing something like the tanning/leathering process as a step towards a better bellows material? Obviously a big ask as far as research, labor, and time, but it was the first thing that came to mind when @trailerparkpimp mentioned the box bellows
@@rafferdx Tanning used to be done using urine and feces/dung, more modern solutions mostly use toxic substances. Also I and apparently a lot of others judging by actualyhyenas comments, would not like to see violent content or a piece of bloody fur. This content is almost meditative to me and hunting doesn't really fit.
While a continous stream of air is surely beneficial, isn't it harder in terms of coordination and stamina to run the new fan for a prolonged time? or does the improved efficiancy mean that you also cut down on the time needed to finish and therefore lower the requirement in terms of stamina/coordination again?
edit: nvm the points were adressed at the very end^^ I wrote my comment in the middle of the vid
Our man and legend is one smart cookie so I never click "reply" until I've watched everything and read all the captions, for precisely the reason you just discovered :P
Thank you for showing failures and not just scrapping ideas that didn't work out. To quote one of the masters: "Failure is ALWAYS an option."
The only important part of a failure is what you do after, learning from them and trying again is critical. Good ideas don't always pan out and just because something doesn't work doesn't mean it was a bad idea. We should always keep trying new things and learning all we can along the way, be it a failure or a resounding success. Showing projects like these that didn't work out like you hoped is one of the things that makes this channel so great. So, again, thank you.
“I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work.” - Thomas Edison
Even failures can teach you a lot...and sometimes failures can not be failures at all, just different ways to achieve different goals
@@W4iteFlame A failure is just a learning experience. If you don't learn from it though then you're actually failing.
It's kind of like ignorance. There's nothing wrong with not knowing something, but once you know that you don't know something then it's time to learn. I try to never think of anybody as dumb, especially for just not knowing something. But when they have the opportunity to learn and they don't take it that's when I think they're actually dumb.
Everybody gets a pass, once.
@@TiborRoussou To be fair, he probably stole that quote.
maybe so, but I'm sure the light bulb wasn't created on the first try!@@Aedalas
I plan to stay subscribed forever even if you stop making videos. To me, you're one of the greatest contributors of internet content. One just can't put a price on the videos you've created.
I am a new subscriber after watching many of the fake channels of people, apparently building these amazing huts with swimming pools attached. It's an absolute breath of fresh air to watch a genuine guy make these awesome videos. You deserve all the success you have achieved, and I intend to binge watch your videos. Much respect, and please keep making this amazing content.
He is the true genuine primitive technology one...
In an AMA they asked him if his videos were fake or not
His response? Try what i do for yourself, if you get the same or better results, then you have your answer
All he learned, he learned by primitive technology books and many trial and errors
@lordfriedrick7911 yeah even in all the call out videos on fake primitive building channels this one is always cited as the genuine article.
He is the og.
He's the OG of primitive technology, most of the other channels have tens of people working in their projects, their more like "reality" shows
In sense, he's the reason those fake channels exists in the first place, but they never understand what they're trying to fake,
it might help to more closely match the inner diameter the the width of the fan arms the less space between the blades and the wall the more efficient the blower becomes. Also if possible a funnel shape around the air intake would help create a venturi effect and force more air in but it might be kinda hard to get a smooth funnel shape that is durable out of clay without it weighing a ton and making it harder to get the spindle into the housing
None of that really matter if your shoulder turns to jello after a couple of hours though. The original design looks MUCH more physically sustainable than this one.
I was thinking if he had a rock or clay bowl it would be more comfortable to spin the crank since the shaft wouldn't be against his skin, but I agree, I feel like the rapid rocking is gonna be hell in his arm.
@@ammonke6324 true, but this one seems more fun
I would also add, put a rock at the bottom of the fan, to not dig into the ground and add more gears to change the motion from spinning to moving front and back (like rowing) to use your bicep too so that it's easier on the shoulder (maybe?). What a fun project, great job! :)
@@CommunalToast That's what the nut shell @2:36 is for.
Please post a full-length video of one of these smelts so we can fully understand how many hours it takes to do one. I don't think folks realize how much long-term mind-numbing effort you put into these videos. :) Thank you!
The time it takes would be nice to know, for each longer process, but there is no need for a long video.
He can easily write it.
@@zugihe actually did write it in the comments of one of his previous videos. It's many hours
I look forward to your videos dropping and it's always a great day when there's a new one. Thank you for sharing!
Thanks for the support and I'll keep them coming. Much appreciated.
The fact he does the Stone Age thing so well is impressive all on its own. The work ethic required for it is off the charts insane.
Iron age in this case.
@@Gribbo9999more like the Renaissance! Turbo pumps weren’t a thing until the end of the 14th century and even then this would qualify as an advanced design not seen until the 15th or 16th century.
They did have quasi mechanic blower that weren’t vacuum blowers(Bellow), but they didn’t work this way, they were just a system of tubs you blew into that would amplify the pressure and keep it from coming back up!
Primitive heavy industry
Have you noticed he uploads to youtube in Full HD? THAT'S some impressive stone age wizardry 😂
Would be interested in seeing what sort of footprint he is made on his patch of jungle
I thoroughly enjoy your channel. While watching this video, an idea came to mind:
How about turning the blower on it's side, and using the foot-powered pole lathe concept to drive the rotor? I imagine it'd be fairly simple to make, and quite comfortable to operate.
yeah, it would be good if it could be leg powered. i was thinking of one of those potter's spinning turntables that's foot powered with the horizontal flywheel with a shaft that's connected to a fan, something like that.
Только собрался написать про вертикальное положение вентилятора, но вы меня опередили.
Your videos keeps me from the year 2016, nothing is changed I love it
i've been following your journey for quite a while now. i'm so excited that you're finally approaching metal age. keep up the good work.
Still waiting for him to make a sword.
When civilization falls, he will be Conan.
I think this is the best episode of Primitive Technology yet. I love the science in that mechanical fan, the foresight of making it collapsible, and to top it off the episode has clay, woodcraft, and fire!
I like the fact it was so much labour for essentially a failed experiment. Just the perfect balance of ingenuity, experimentation, labour and honesty that makes this channel so great.
He’s the best
Hey. Thanks for the new upload! Are there any plans in the future for more water powered tech? I loved the "Water Powered Hammer (monjolo)" video. It's like primitive robotics!
never did i think i would see a turbo made from mud and wood. add some sssutututuu and its epic!
I think there's major room for improvement in the leaf impeller material. Not only was it flimsy to begin with, but it will crease and weaken further. If supported with a vine frame, maybe it will be the most lightweight sturdy impeller. I still favor thin wood though, as it will definitely last the longest and can match the concavity of the blower. Awesome video
Peeled bark maybe? If it's spinning one way a slight curve would only help
I think the primary drawback for this impeller and why leaves are required is the rotation with a counterweight will be unstable. The blade will be making contact with the top and bottom, so a blade material as you describe wont work.
It also means the wear on the impeller is much higher then his previous design. So either way he'll need new blades frequently. Easy enough to add new leaves, but still less durable then his last design.
Maybe he could even shape the wood pannels on the impeller like a centrifugal fan
Maybe some kind of porous clay slats? Lightweight and sturdy
I think wooden blades are only practical on a continuous rotation fan like this one; for the oscillating version having very little mass is more important than perfect aerodynamics.
"Hey, John, why is your right arm so much more muscular than the left one?"
"I made a contraption where I have to spin a log for hours on end"
"... sure"
Hey… is this a dick joke?
Heya, I noticed in your design you're using leaves to act as fan blades. However you use only a single stick with the leaves stuck between them. Now when you reach a high enough RPM, wouldn't this result in the leaves eventually bending over the singular stick during use which would result in less surface area picking up wind and thus less airflow?
I was thinking of a double fan with two sticks holding the leaves at the top and bottom of each leaf/fan, which would reduce the problem
i was thinking of something like that. the fan blades need to be beefed up a bit
unlike the previous blower, since it only moves in one direction, the leaves also don't get reset the rotation in opposite direction
Also instead or leaves, u could use tree buck?
He can avoid that added complexity altogether by either using stronger leaves or limiting the rotational velocity of the fan.
Or use a small twig placed vertically on the end of each arm where the leaf is to brace the leaf when under acceleration
I grew up in a very poor, primitive environment and man, this guy is legit. I really wanna join him.
The legend 🙌 is back
I always watch your videos at least twice - once sans subtitles and with them right after. There's so much to learn, but it's nice trying to work out the processes on my own the first time. Very rewarding.
There are subtitles?
oh, you are missing out without subtitles. Then again, you can now go back and rewatch the whole series with them. It is a whole new experience. @@qwertixi
It IS kinda fun to try and guess what hes doing and why@@jasongoodrich9055
I expected it to be more tiring, but I still think it's worth it, both as a learning experience and as a step towards something like a treadle-powered blower.
Jup, using the muscles in one arm or two makes a big difference.
Okay but, how would one do it, if they are using primitive tech? You need sturdier materials, and these things while good would break down more constantly. Even if all you're using is wood (Basically like a spinning wheel construction) you need metal tools I think to make the needed shapes. You need a way to transfer that treadle energy out.
I suppose he’s onto something regarding the offset log as a flywheel. A flywheel and a string winder that doesnt switch directions, giving you stable speed at low effort imput.
Hardware for a few key components in a treadle-powered blower would be a worthy use of any metal produced thus-far.
@@mariawhite7337 You can use the springyness of an overhead branch to power a basic treadle. A "spinning wheel" can just be a cord wrapped round another branch.
I like seeing Stone-Age applications of stuff we take granted for in the modern day.
Could you imagine how many generations it would have taken to trial and error stumble into that particular design? Even your own journey shows this. This must be the fifth or sixth blower I've seen you construct. I like the counterweight. Man, I can only imagine how many different cultures inspired some of your stuff; a collision of converging ideas that were separated by thousands of miles and years that you are bringing together.
A lot of stuff had to align, how much counterweight to add, how it would balance, and how you would avoid dinging your elbow and knee during application. I get it, experimenting with different ergonomics to see what the advantages/disadvantagesare.
A lot of the fun comments is how many steps you are from ascending us into the modern age, but I like how you've stayed relatively consistent, revisiting and recreating past projects. Yeah, these structures are going to break down and would require rebuilding, even with maintenance. Tribes and villages used to move around not just for resource regeneration of the area from their absence, but because the site would degrade from habitation.
Seeing as you are featuring smelting more and more, I am wondering what a hypothetical direct-jump from stone to iron age would look like without an equivalent blacksmithing site involved (as in an entire site, tradition, and multiple crafters dedicated to the craft). It'd be neat to see iron being hammered into shape against carved stone and cast from clay molds. You've already done the knife, but talking about something that can withstand impact. I think a hammer and then an axe (opposite facings on the same piece, even) would be neat. Rather than solid iron, perhaps a sheath of iron capping a wooden core?
Its really captivating, reinventing processes with modern knowledge. Imagine being able to apply cold welding, or working different alloys that would not have occured to our ancestors. Its baffling how many things had to come together for people to apply alloying worked copper to tin to form bronze, and the pseudo magic-ritual/technological-application that would have looked like.
I was so happy to see the new design. This could have been such a nice progression arc with it beeing easier to produce the iron. Sad to see that it's not only worse to operate, takes more time and even has lower output. Glad you still showed it to us. You cannot win every time. Keep on!
Who else would watch a 10 hour cut of each of these episodes?
omg I would totally.
Ye
Same tbh
I've got a playlist made of this channel plus Torbjörn Åhman's that I watch to help me sleep. It's very relaxing :)
Yeah, he should go the route of other creators and have some "raw" material on like a second channel or something
With the previous design you were able to use both legs and both arms to continually stoke the fire. I wonder if there's a way to convert this method to use larger muscle groups. This would prevent the fatigue from setting in so quickly. Don't give up on this design, I can see it out performing the previous design! Great video as always!
gear ratios =P
@@ThulgoreYeah, I was also thinking about gears. I dont know if he's already that far in the tech tree though 😊
@@SolarWebsite, clay and fiber gears? It's hard to make it precisely though.
The most efficient high endurance muscles on the body (besides the heart and diaphragm) are the leg muscles. So you really have look at a bicycle, leg press, or rowing type system. Which would generally necessitate more precision drive mechanisms or counterweights. The hard part is can you design such a system without violating the primitive spirit everything. Sectioning large wooden rounds for drive systems are much too modern for such 5000-3000 BC technology.
@@SolarWebsite you can absolutely make a gear out of lashed sticks. Just don't expect it to be able to handle anything stronger than a person turning it by hand for a while.
Amazing skills! Thank you very much for such content. Greetings from Lithuania!
Much appreciated, I'll keep it coming!
How's the arm feeling after doing that? Any thoughts for swapping it to leg power? Bodgers use foot powered devices with a bendy stick for the return, not sure how you'd go about rigging it to single direction... that weighted stick, bodgers foot pedal going horizonal and a pulley of some sort?
Awesome content as always, thanks for all the effort :)
Maybe if he flipped the fan 90°so it's vertical? Cut a flagstone into a flywheel and pedal a treadle like a spinning wheel?
@@toddalexander5015 That was where my thoughts were headed, too, yeah. But I don't think that would work out. A spinning wheel has a pretty low RPM compared to what he's trying for here, and it experiences much less resistance than one of these impellers does. The treadle would have to have an enormous range of motion, and at that point engineering the wheel becomes a problem, as does leg fatigue. Plus, building a high-speed drive belt with his materials would be a challenge. Not an impossible one, I'm sure, but it would take a long, long time to put it together.
Simple: a ratcheting gear system obviously
Don't tell me anything about the material properties of clay
Oi fellow, thanks for using the word
'Bodgers". Just went down that old rabbit hole n the whole subject. nice one.
I suggest pedal with a lever and a wheel like in old Singer sewing machine.
I had an unbelievably shit day today and sitting down to see you'd uploaded lifted my spirits, I love watchign your processes and how you build things it's fascinating
Have you considered pairing this with a water mill? I'm fascinated by the progress in the contraptions you make 😁
I tought the same!!! Then it'd would be not taxing on arms, continuos Air flow without manpower maybe would be better than original, as It would be able to generate heat as Will if you have on/off mecanical switch. It'd would be good for heating water for Bath even!!
That would be interesting. I'm imagining a horizontal axle going straight from a water wheel to the center axis of the blower. Maintaining a high speed might be difficult, though, due to the friction losses.
you could increase the speed of water by making it come in wide and then tightening the flow progressive before hitting the mill blades
i though of that the first time he made the water powered stuff.. i was always wondering why he never utilized it, maybe its outside of the time period that he is focusing?
@@marekprazak Is there a time period? Anything is fair if it can be made using the naturally occurring materials and only using tools produced from same.
Probably the most important youtuber to date. They should pay you as their flagship model xD
Any chance of setting this up with a water wheel or maybe even hand cranked so it's more ergonomic? A belt of cordage might work to transfer energy from the wheel/crank to the fans and different sized logs on either end of the belt could do better than 1:1 ratio. More complex and might not be viable with wear on the cordage, but more ergonomic. Possibly too slow moving though.
Not sure how efficient it would be, especially since we havent seen him built construction near riverbank
No belt drives are needed. Everything should be on one shaft, the fan and the water wheel, the rotation speed will depend on the pressure of the water hitting the water wheel.
@@HowToChangeName he has a video where he makes a water powered hammer!
he could set this up
although the water flow really isn't high
Вполне полезные ролики, чтобы можно было себе сделать какую-нибудь печь, как костер разводить или типа того, и это - лучший канал по таким технологиям. Лайк не глядя за ролик.
Ну он, как бы металл добыл.
A beautiful experiement! Multiple ways you can smelt but I love seeing the slow progression towards modernity. I always like to keep in mind that you are one man, imagine 6 people really trying to make a fan get hot.
Very neat. If the blower was powered by a motor I think would be more efficient than the original, but it's harder to precisely twirl the stick in one direction than it is to simply pull a string to spin it in both. So the ergonomics matter more than the aerodynamic efficiency here.
Interesting as the volute is, I feel like the continous spin mechanism is the most fascinating part here. I wonder if this would be good for some other applications, like a fire drill? Would probably make it less taxing than the typical method, though I suppose probably it'd take longer overall to start a fire with even if it might be less exertion. Would depend I guess on if you value your time or sweat more I guess. XP
I might be wrong but I feel like the base wouldn't be stable enough on wood to stay still. The base in dirt digs a small hole for stabilization but with wood you'd need to make a deep enough hole to start. Again I might be wrong tho 😅
Too low speed for a fire drill likely. You need that high speed friction vs the continuous low speed rotation to create the heat needed.
It could probably work but in the form of a heafty staff, since this is pretty low RPM, you need plenty of downforce to compensate and keep the friction high. You can't deliver this downforce yourself and spin it at the same time so it has to be heavy by itself.
its a waste of energy That heavy wooden block is just used for balance and doesnt really contribute to the overall power that you put into spinning it. this idea would work well if its like a flywheel so it can store energy, but the experimental spin setup is not useful in the long run. waste of energy
What I love so much from your channel is the usage of modern knowledge applied to primitive tooling. This may not be a success, but a great learning experience nonetheless!
Long time fan of your channel, I was really impressed by the counterweight + acorn idea. Maybe you could find some sort of glassy stone like silex, agate or obsidian to make low friction bearings for your spinning contraptions. They might be very hard to chip and shape into the desired forms though.
There are no acorns growing in tropical Queensland, my guess is that it’s a Macadamia shell, Macadamias are native to northern Queensland.
Best would be the quartz rock in western queensland
Been watching for a while and I must say, while I'm glad to see you posting more frequently, don't burn yourself out for us mate. I don't know if it was the task at hand, or something else, but those clips where you were using the furnace in that last half you looked exhausted.
Even though a lot of his videos now are similar, I still cannot get enough of them.
Wait until he hits the Bronze age!
I think he's testing out with melting and burning. So he's doing a lot of experimenting and research before coming up with metal.
@@cartoonhead9222 He won't copper is hard to get "in the wild" and tin is practically impossible
He literaly use only mud, sticks and stones. No wonder it seems similar, but honestly, his craftmanship is admirable.
People underestimate the difficulty that comes with smelting metal. It really goes to show how far we have come in terms technology advancement.
7:50, invert flow of input, add more water along Creek and there's a ball valve gen, once the materials withstand each
As soon as you started spinning it, I thought about how this design would be more work to use in the long run. I'm surprised by how much less efficient it is, but the other design also seems much more comfortable to use, especially for the long time it takes to smelt
You win, after three videos I need to subscribe.
This is the only guy who can say that he has 10,000 years of experience on a resume
Your content is outstanding! Gives me an idea of empowerment and the background sound is calming. I started to appreciate things like mud, charcoal and ash and understand more of the stone age- fantastique! Thanks for that!
Much appreciated! Thanks for the feedback too.
作るものが毎回すごくて感心する
E aí John cara você realmente é um sobrevivente de verdade.. achei um monte de canal mais eram tudo falso.. meus parabéns por sua dedicação..
Eight years and I'm still impressed with each video, the acorn socket was a great idea! Hope to see you make it to iron tools soon.
Looked like a macadam nut, there's no acorns in North Queensland.
@@christopherlee627 isn't he in NZ?
@@GhstTwnzFnstNo, Queensland, Australia.
Vai fazer meu dia feliz, melhor canal!!
Glad to see you still out here with us. I know these projects are not easy, and you always had the copycats frustrations, but verry happy with all these. Thank you.
Imagine casually melting some iron and suddenly your furnace goes STUTUTUTU.
Would this counterweight hand crank also work for creating the initial spark/ignition?
Huge fan - been subscribed for years and looking forward to each new video!
yes, its also providing rotational energy, but i don't know if it would be effective
the firestarting works on friction and i feel like the continuous rotation in one direction would be less effective than the back and forth of doing it by hand. (especially at his level)
MANDATORY REMINDER: TURN ON CLOSED CAPTIONS ❤
wait WHATTT????
IVE JUST BEEN READING THE DESCRIPTION THIS WHOLE TIME
@@jpgdotexe you're so lucky, now you can rewatch every single video ❤️ I remember when it happened to me, those were good times
So this is an amazing culmination of so many previous improvements. You never fail to impress and to teach, thank you for everything you have made
PS. Guess I should have waited for the end to say "Culmination" but definitely no less fun and interesting to watch, thanks again mate
Seems to be a step in the right direction, good job John
O primeiro e inigualável primitivo do UA-cam! Foi muito bom ver você voltando a gravar, seus vídeos são os melhores da categoria.
Try making the fan bigger and more rigid,the leaves reinforced
clear air intake and curved
Like a funnel for the air
, ground point of the axis (where the fan touches the ground)
Also try having an inertia wheel, like the fire drill.
And if you can't reach high rpm, try reaching high volume of air moved,
Big air chamber and big fan.
then funnel it down to high velocity.
Nie mogłem się doczekać nowego filmu z twojego kanału. Pozdrowienia z Polski!
its crazy how simple the new fan is yet so effective
The tuyere might be improved by adding secondary air inlets, using the bernoulli effect to draw in more air with the air that is already moving. Generally, improve the interface between rectangular blower and round tuyere. Any sharp corners cause a "jam" in the air trying to converge into the tuyere, making it turbulent. Maybe make the nozzle rectangular and build it as an integral part of the blower?
I loved this video, here we have a new idea that underperforms relative to the original blower but there are a few things to try before giving up on it.
Yeah, this one may be more effective than the original design if done well, but just look at all that mass you have to move to keep the air flowing. Basically the whole arm, plus the log, at a steady rythm. With the old one, you could just go at whatever pace was comfortable and use your legs as needed to let your arms rest. And technically the lower arms would be enough for that one in the first place. This would probably perform way better if hooked up to a watermill or something to that effect.
Those last two lines broke my heart. There were so many ingenious pieces that came together so beautifully that I'm saddened it's not as efficient as the previous blower and furnace.
Seems like a good application for the sapling spring like when you made the pole lathe
It would be interesting to use infrared camera or laser to check what temperature the kiln reaches internally.
I'm wondering if you could attach a stick horizontally to the top of the blower to make it more ergonomic once the rotation has started.
Also, I think further tasting of blade design would be interesting
Dude, it's a primitive channel, he hasn't invented it yet