Dirtywave M8 Vs Polyend Tracker Mini
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- Опубліковано 19 лип 2024
- We take a look at some of the differences between the two handheld trackers on the market from @Dirtywave & @Polyend
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00:00 Intro
01:00 Form Factor
02:09 Synths & Sounds
03:14 Hexadecimal
04:00 Tables
06:10 Layout
07:24 Patterns / Phrases
09:35 Microphone
10:52 Battery Life
11:28 M8 Screen Ripping and Glitches
12:32 Menu Diving
14:20 Buttons
15:17 Availability
16:00 Outro
What it comes down to - for me - is short term complexity vs. long term complexity.
I've bought and compared both the M8 and the OG Tracker, played around with the Tracker Mini last Superbooth. The M8 took me about 3 days to get my head around; the Polyend I was bored with after 3 days because I felt I hit the ceiling of what it had to offer.
If you want a fun little groovebox to noodle around on from the get go, the Polyend devices come closer. If you're actually looking for a powerful workstation to get into Flow with, M8 takes the cake. It can be inredibly simple once you learn it, especially once you set up a template suited to your workflow. Thanks to the few buttons and the UI design, the whole process becomes muscle memory. You don't have to dive into the magic of tables (which could be, superficially, described as a 3-lane per-note sequencer available to every instrument), you don't even have to know all the shortcuts from the leaflet. All you need to get started is:
Navigation on screen - Arrow Keys
Navigation between screens - Shift+ Arrow Keys
Edit Values - Edit + Arrow Keys
Selection Mode - Shift+ Option
Copy Selection - Option
Paste Selection - Shift + Edit
I have, btw, never experienced screen tearing on the M8. It's also worth mentioning that the Polyend Devices have a memory limit per project, meaning you have to pre-load samples until the memory is full (careful with using longer samples). On M8, everything is being streamed from the SD card, meaning you can just work with complete stems from songs, have as many one shots as you want etc. AND songs load pretty much at instant speed. I don't play live, but those in the community who do seem to appreciate the option of just cueing up projects and being able to switch seamlessly.
The screen size is an issue for some people, I've come to notice - but I'm also surprised that, even though this seems to be an issue for you, you haven't mentioned the option of using an upsized UI that came with a firmware update at the beginning of 2023.
Thanks for watching! These are all great points. I still love my M8 I just find they both have slightly different workflows that are great to flip flop between. I still very much love my M8 and you can see for the amount of videos I have posted about it that I still very much enjoy using it.
Also hats off to you for learning the M8 in three days. It took me longer than that to get my head around it. It was some time before I was making something that I would call a song.
I do love the fast loading times of the M8 and for those that need it to be able to play live with it.
I tried the upsized UI on the M8 and it was not for me. Having things larger on a small screen still doesn't beat having a larger screen in my opinion.
Did you maybe use a slower SD-card @@craigwilliamsmusic ?
M8 is a much deeper device, but UI is down to preference and can make or break the deal for some. The M8 is the most inspiring musical device ive bought, i could get rid of everything else and still come out with fully fleshed out tracks, not sure the Polyend could achieve that.
I think it comes down to workflow. I have made full songs on both. Getting the initial idea is easy on both of the units but I found the Polyend a little easier when it comes to arrangements, edits and fills. I love the synths on the M8 but I found that I was a little painted into a corner when it came to sound variety. Using all samples helped me push away from making the same track over and over. Like I said in the video there are loads of features that I just don’t take advantage of on the M8 like tables. It’s a great little machine, for my workflow I have been going back to the Polyend a little more. It’s also my newest device so time will tell if it’s my go to.
@@craigwilliamsmusic well put, it's 100% down to workflow and own experience/knowledge of synthesis etc... I had zero experience with trackers when I got my M8, but after years of owning Elektron devices I adjusted very quickly, I can easily imagine the steep learning curve if you come from other devices (down to "simple" things like hexadecimal). Thanks again for the informative videos, much appreciated!
We both sound like we are coming from the same place. The M8 was my first tracker after owning Elektron gear (great minds think alike hahahahahahaha) Thank you for taking the time to watch the video and comment on your experience with the M8!!
@@g-man4744wait so just curious Elektron has tracker like device? Just wondering. Thanks
@@spectralknights2 no, however the architecture of the sequencer and the P-locks are very clearly based on tracker workflow. The genius of elektron IMO is to have come up with an interface familiar with xox box users but with the depth and flexibility available on trackers.
The HEX numbering is something every daw should have as an option. Coming from trackers in the DOS era, it’s so much better than using decimal numbering, since music works 16 steps and not in 10. What even makes it worse is DAWs like ableton start counting from 1 instead of 0 making the next logical entry at 9, 17, 33 etc, instead of 10, 20, 30, 40 etc using hex, which is so much more intuitive.
I get what you're saying but I think we will have to agree to disagree.
@@craigwilliamsmusic Thats why I said ‘as an option’. Because I know many will disagree, in fact, most people will. I also used to set my tracker to decimal counting, only to later on realize how much better Hex is for music when I tried trackers that didn’t have the option and got really comfortable counting in hex. The gripe you have with hex is what I really miss in modern daws. Or even the option to start counting from 0 instead of 1. Seems like an easy option/feature if you ask me.
What a superb comparison...actual pragmatic usage analysis. Both superb bits of product design, and fantastic that we have such a choice when a mere decade ago the tracker was a fading memory for most
Thank you and thanks for watching. I think it comes down to the size and workflow in my opinion. They’re both great machines that can help you create some great music.
Great video as always, Craig. The Polyend Tracker Mini technically supports two types of synthesis: granular and wavetable (both of which are awesome). Re: the M8, it took me a long time to learn the basics (thanks to your other videos) but now I can fly through the workflow. I really like the additional layer of Chains between Song and Phrases (and the Phrases will allow multiple instruments per step similar to the Tracker Mini). I’m really enjoying both devices but find myself using the M8 a LOT more for a couple reasons: 1) The investment in the learning curve and 2) the external speaker which means I can pick it, turn it on and get started without having to hook up headphone or a line connection to another speaker (required on the Tracker Mini). Thanks again for your generosity sharing what you are learning so we can follow in your footsteps.
You're totally right on the granular and wavetable synths on the Polyend. I did really like the speaker when I was learning the device. I could have youtube open and follow along with the M8 without headphones or connected to an audio device. I think I could find out some more use cases for tables and effects, as you know it takes time to learn even half of the functions on the M8.
I have both , the m8 is a solid hardware quicker , seamless and have synths engine . But tracker mini sounds more punchy , has a better reverb longer battery ( important for me ) and the mic that i love ( sounds on the field and compression , normalize make the difference ) , larger screen etc... now i use Mini almost everytime when i get out
I love both of them. The best device is what you enjoy using and can make the music you have in your head.
Looks like M8 Model:02 is the way to go 😬
It looks pretty nice. Not sure if it has enough features for me to upgrade but I love to see that it is evolving.
All I want is an M8 the size of the tracker mini
I think the M8 v2 has a bigger screen and is a little bigger. It might be worth a look
@craigwilliamsmusic I have long fingers, so even the slight boost in size isn't enough. Truthfully, I want Thomas to finish the NerdSeq portable as I think it'll be about the size of an sp404
All I want is the M8 firmware in a box like the OG Polyend Tracker. Would be the best of both worlds
Thanks for the comparison review, definitely the m8 is not for everyone (small screen almost no buttons and extra expensive) and the polyend its a great box 🍻
They're both great options. At the end of the day which ever device gets you making music is the right one for you.
M8 version 2 is out in May. Bigger screen, built in mic.
I saw that. I don't think i'll get one since I have the the original and the Polyend.
M8 is all about muscle memory and as soon as you don’t think about the buttons you press anymore, it’s a game changer. The synth engine is not underlined enough here, it’s very powerful and as long as the mini will stay a sampler tracker without any synth engine, it will stay behind. Screen size is a comfort the M8 doesn’t need imho. Everybody can have a different opinion for sure but having both machines at home is not sufficient to compare them. You need to master each one to come to a conclusion.
I love both machines and have made full tracks on both of them. I like the different workflows of each.
It’s a small thing, but the Polyend’s traditional tracker UI with the notes of many tracks simultaneously visible makes it a lot easier to manually punch in chords.
That said, the M8 is my own choice in part due to all of the buttons simply being there and easy to “touch type”. I can play it like a Gameboy, which makes sense given its inspiration. Conversely many might find that harder due to reliance on key combos, as opposed to having dedicated buttons or buttons with fewer individual behaviors.
I totally agree with you.
I think at the end of the day it comes down to workflow and what fits your style.
At the end of the day who cares what you use to make music as long as you're having fun and expressing yourself the end listener just wants the music.
Although I do not have Polyend Mini,I totally agree with you about being able to see a big picture containing details of a song in Polyend Mini.
I have had M8 for more than 2years now but I still got overwhelmed by its functions(for example: so many unusual effects and of course the Table.) so for the more choices I have to make in order to make a song. In other word, M8 is too capable in a special way. haha. I am sure it will be very powerful once you can handle it properly.
After while muscle memory helps the process. I am not sure but in order to make what you are really intended to make takes extra learning with M8. I know magic happens in accidents but I want to know how that accident happens and be able to repeat them when I want to.
Maybe I just need more limitation to get creatively productive.
Anyway I am still trying to get comfortable working with M8 so I can play with it not get intimidated by it. Sorry about my English. Cheers
Thanks for watching. I'm pretty comfortable with the device but I don't find myself really developing new ideas with the device. I find that I fall into some old habits.
Thank you so much for this review.
I recently was trying to decide which of the two to buy and went with the M8.
The reasons: Recording long audio, touchscreen, the synths and the good reputation.
Not being able to select more rows than 16 is a bit of an issue indeed, it would be nice to display the phrases continously/wrapping like Renoise can do.
I am surprised you say the M8 battery life is 6 hours. I did not full discharge it yet but by extrapolation the the battery status display, my impression is that it would last only 3 hours. I will have an eye on that. UPDATE: I made a real test and mine shut down after four hours and ten minutes.
You say the polyend has only samples but did the first big polyend tracker not have a wavetable synth (Ah some other comment already confirmed that).
Interesting that you find the microphone important, it is not something I find extremely necessary.
I think one of the most important function to me is being able to resample with different effects. Presumably both devices can do that, but it helps a great deal to not be limited by RAM size on the M8.
I would love to see drum-pads on the touchscreen so that I don't need an external midi device to insert notes live.
From how you described the pattern layout though, it seems that they are "holistic" on the polyend, so it may it not feature a clip-launching mode? That would be something I would miss greatly.
The M8 is great and I think you will be really happy with the purchase. Just take some time to go through different tutorials to get comfortable with the device and you will have loads of fun.
Good decision. The workflow is magnificant on that thing. Nothing is as fast as m8. Require a bit learning but it is nit that bad
Thanks for the vid. I had the M8 twice and I like it but just did not get along with the size and the 16 step view. I have a tracker mini showing up this week so will try that one out. The only issue I hear is the mini has some casing and button issues but that stuff usually does not bother me...I'm pretty easy to deal with hardware stuff as long as the thing works. Cheers.
I hear you on the 16 step view. The M8 was my first tracker so I didn't know any different. When I got the Polyend I was like "ok this gels a little more with my workflow" Also I love love love the mic for recording random things and putting them into my songs.
@@craigwilliamsmusic Just spent an hour in my office sampling our paper cutter and our water bottles and put a few other sounds together and made a quick little tune. Really enjoyed it and so quick. There are so many shortcuts for getting to different screens or adjusting things...yes, there are some issues with quality but I will ignore those on mine as they dont seem too bad...just had a lot of fun and that is what matters!
For me at least recording different things around me and letting the sounds dictate the direction of the song helps me write more original and interesting music.
The tracker mini doesnt have any synth engines?! Bruh. That is insanity, ngl. The synth engines on the M8 are crazy good. I wish the Deluge had the same synth engines.
I really like the synth engines on the M8. I did neglect to mention that the Tracker Mini has a granular synth built in but it still requires samples.
For me, the m8 is truly pocketable and that's the biggest factor for me
When I travel I have been taking the M8 because it's a little smaller
Thing with me is that I was scared off of trackers because the learning curve looked so high that it would be more of a chore. The OG Polyend Tracker came up on discount and I just gave it a try, and the interface is really more user friendly so I could learn the basics of using a tracker. I like the features the mini adds specs wise, but I think I prefer more of the gameboy pocketable format so I got a teensy board and I am giving the m8 headless a go. Now that they added the mic, USB-C, bigger display etc it might be tempting me more.
I think the Gen 2 from M8 is worth a look.
Had you tried OP-1 Field and OP-Z, I read that one can connect the OP-Z to the iPhone garageband to get more track, base on that and if just want to have a good all in one device to make music, which one of these and DirtyWave M8 is better if I want to make music, soundtrack and game effect from field recording audios and make something Tenet, Tron, Blade Runner and so on kind of futuristic modern sounds?
I can't really say which is better over the other since the OP devices and the trackers have a completely different workflow.
I have the original OP1 and whilst it's great for some things, recording to the built in tape never really clicked with me.
If you can spend the time the M8 is great since it's all built in (Synths, samples etc) You might want to test out a software tracker to see if that workflow is something you enjoy using.
I see, but can you tell me how many type of device are there, in camera world, it's quite easy, just small or bigger, here in audio world, tracker, sampler, sequencer, ..., how many are there and what are the differences and how to choose? I thought they all just specialised modifiers but seem like you can play and record music on all of these, confusing!
And why don't one just use a DAW like Logic Pro and use the MacBook Pro internal keyboard to play the music with these virtual synthesizers? M8 is same thing with these keyboard keys right? And why do one get these and not a standard MIDI keyboard? I read some say they don't want the traditional professional workflow but want something fun becuase music suppose to be fun and hence they get Teenage Engineering and M8 Tracker, but OP-1 still keyboard based and M8 is quite complicated, what make one workflow fun?
@@NetvoTVnew to the music world?
Basically, theres a lot of overlap these days. A sampler takes samples, they sometimes have built in sounds, most dont. So you put a sound into it to play around with. The M8 has sampling. Its a tracker, which means its not really like a daw. You plug notes in vs playing them. And why not just use a daw? Some of us just dont find sitting at a computer as inspiring, but a daw is certainly more flexible. It all comes down to personal preference, and if youre new, its kinda something you have to figure out along the way. Dont get too hung up on hardware, just buy a device you think youd like and make music. You dont need thousands of dollars worth of gear to get started
Owning both the m8 and the original tracker I have to say they seem to have a similar workflow, but if I was presented with the same source material and samples on both devices the actual outcome on both devices would be completely different. The tracker has a certain lofi feel which immediately drags you into certain genres. The m8 is more versatile in that respect. Thanks to its various synth engines there are hardly any limitations
It's funny with the M8's synths (esp the Hypersynth) I find that it pushing me into the same direction. Whilst the Polyend (and the M8 if I use just samples) takes me in very different directions depending on the source material.
M8 for life
I still very much love the M8 I'm just keen to see if my style of production changes on the Polyend.
Alert Tracker has a synth engine update now 2.0
I'm hyped to give it a good test to see what I can get out of it.
@@craigwilliamsmusic Have fun!
If only the tracker mini had built in speakers like the M8. For a portable device I don’t want to be chained to headphones or having to bring extra speakers and cables.
I really liked the built in speaker when i was learning the M8 so I could watch tutorials and then try it myself. Once I had a solid understanding I didn't use the speaker again.
I really like the big Polyend tracker, but for some reason the m8 has won me over lately. Havent touched the Polyend in awhile, but that'll change.
I can see myself flip flopping between the two. The Polyend is top at the moment because it's the new kid on the block.
So the M8 has a speaker but no mic,
and the mini a mic but no speaker ?
I about to buy my first tracker, as it will take me long time to learn, what should I choose ? Can't decide ...
There is no real wrong answer to this question. Your decision might be decided for you by what is available. The M8’s are on back order I think. Not sure how long it will take for them to become available.
Not having a synth engine on the Polyend is crazy. M8 is worth it for that alone, honestly
I would buy M8 model 02. Has a mic , speaker, bigger screen, better battery. AND build in synths.
Hex numbers are rad. Way more compact. Super easy to use.
I think is one area where we think very differently. My brain doesn't work in hex.
@@craigwilliamsmusic yeah, but in most cases it doesn't matter too much. The actual description is usually described in the line at the bottom and for parameters - I always change them by the ear. It is not harder but just different. Something to get used to. I actually think that the UI design of M8 is genius:so many things on such small screen - all readable and fast to use. But it require a bit of getting used to...
I use my ear to make changes the number and letter mean nothing to me once the letters are added.
@@craigwilliamsmusic it just matter of time really and it starts to make sense :)
Hex isn't too bad, work with it enough and it will become natural. An easy way to think about it. Which is sometimes missed by people without a Comp Sci background is this:
For the first digit:
0 thru F = 0 thru 15
The second digit is a multiple of 16:
10 = 16
20 = 32
...
A0 = 160
B0 = 176
and so on...
So AF, for example:
A0 = 160
0F = 15
AF = 160 + 15 = 175
How much times did he say the screen is a loty smaller?
I'm guessing I said it more than once ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
When will M8 mark 2 release? Hope it will have USB C, mic and radio sampling!
I don't know. The best place to find that information out is via their discord group.
I wonder, why everybody is so crazy about the tracker onboard mic as it´s so easy to use your phone as a mic for the m8? With your phone, you can even sample radio. All you need is a cheap 3.5mm trs cable. 😉
This is what I do on the M8. On the tracker I like that I don't have to pull my phone out. I'm just editing a video showing how useable the mic on the tracker is.
@@craigwilliamsmusic That´s great! I´m excited to see this video. And thanks for this comparison. It´s very helpfull!
Yes / yes / no
New m8 is out
Cool video.. very well presented. personally i lean more towards the polyend in terms of trackerness .. but always hex... i pretty much use it like protracker on amiga or fasttracker 2 on pc.. the polyend feels more like ft2 or protracker where as the m8 has a much more c64 / sidtracker / LSDj ui style... ive had the mini for about 3 weeks, it's a lot of fun, portable and quick to make patterns, however really technical tracked music isn't something that just rolls off the brain, it's very edit intensive and takes a fucking long time even on an optimum platform like Renoise.. so i dont find myself making entire tunes.. its more just for fun little jams with other equipment for me .. however thats jsut my personal preference for standalone hardware, i want it to be fast and dynamic like the orignal mpc's. ASR-10 and these days the elektron gear..
All of the full tracks I have made on the M8 and Mini I haven't been 100% happy with. I like being able to start ideas and then tack them into the studio to flesh them out into a full song. Especially when traveling.
To me the Dirtywave wins hands down. Why? Because both cost around 600 (GPB, USD, EUR, whatever), but M8 is more powerful, provides synths and you can have it for (almost) free. It is legal to buy a teensy 4.1 and install M8 headless and, once you're happy with it, and you've learned how to master it, you can buy the real thing.
I honestly think they're both great. I was just trying to show the difference in workflows.
This sounds very very interesting, do u have some tutorial or piece of info on how can one build that?
More effects is better:) 6:06
M8 all day
The M8 is a beast!!
And whatnot
whatnot
Hahahahahhaa
This is a seriously great, to the point summarization Craig. Sorry you're being brigaded for liking something. 😂
Thanks matey. As you know there is nothing bad about either box it just comes down to workflow and works best for the user. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@@craigwilliamsmusic Yep, the only important question is "do I enjoy spending time with this?"
1000000%
@bennJordan what? Brigaded? I looked through all of the comments and they where vast majority supportive and positive. What In the world are you talking about? Unless you're apologizing for nice people brigading with supportive comments on this video.
Seriously confused.
This is fantastic. I got the m8 and I really want to like it. That said I don’t love the super tiny screen. I have the polyend tracker full size and do appreciate that workflow.
The M8 is better, I have both
I'm selling my M8.
@@craigwilliamsmusic don’t do it
I would never buy a Polylend product. Literally the pump and dump of music gear
Each to their own opinion, from the outside I don't get that vibe.