It still blows my mind that Apple was working on something like this in 1983, a couple years BEFORE I first got started on a DOS based machine. It just makes DOS seem so archaic even for 1983. The difference is just jaw dropping. A black screen with an A:> prompt where you could do some very basic commands vs. Mac OS prototype that had many of the modern things we still use today. People constantly shit on Apple but they really were ahead of their time.
More accurately computers were just far behind the curve, Apple Macs took computers and gave them proper controls like a mouse and speakers. The actual performance was low. Before that it was beeps and ASCII, mainly because computers were tools of engineers rather than luxury toys for the home. So high performance but terribly hard to use. Macs are the opposite, fairly weak but really fun and easy to use.
3:28 The ruler scrolls with the document contents because the ruler is actually an object in the document contents. Every time you want to change paragraph format settings, you insert a new ruler, which takes effect from that point until the end of the document, or the next ruler, whichever comes first.
That last menu in the Finder, "Interim" was always titled the name of the current build version so that everyone could instantly tell which build version they were using/testing/debugging. Clever folks there/then.
3:13 The ruler scrolling out of view when you scrolled down is how MacWrite worked even in the final release. When you wanted to change any of those settings for a section, you'd insert a new ruler and make the adjustments there, and they'd stay in effect until the next ruler, and so on. Pretty different from how later word processors worked, and it tended to look a bit cluttered if you had a lot of formatting in your document, but it was very intuitive. Not that I had anything to compare it to. For many people, including me, MacWrite was the first WYSIWYG word processor we'd ever seen.
8:06 That makes sense, because when you click on keys on that “KeyBoard Test” window, you are generating keystrokes to the currently-running application, namely the Finder. It is the Finder telling you it doesn’t (yet) support click-and-type-to-rename, you have to select a special menu item in the “Interim” menu for now.
Linotype and Monotype had a cross-licensing arrangement for Time Roman/Times New Roman going back to the 1930s. Linotype called their version "Times Roman" while Monotype called theirs "Times New Roman" (it was the _new roman_ typeface for The _Times_ of London). Apple licensed it from Linotype, hence it's called Times Roman. Microsoft licensed Times New Roman from Monotype. They are very similar (and interchangeable), but not identical.
That “Bruce” at 8:33 is obviously Bruce Horn, creator of the Finder and the Macintosh Resource Manager, and currently a member of the Siri and Language Technologies teams…
A fascinating video on an interesting point in Apple’s history but please stop with the blurred extended background. It’s incredibly distracting and very naff.
That isn't Apple that's part of the Emulator Basilisk that he is using. A real Apple Mac has the Apple logo baked into the character set of the system font. On Windows the system font has the @ symbol there instead of an Apple logo, as the official system font and that logo are trademarked.
The diskette icon is stored in the Toolbox (in ROM), and some o your emulation issues may be due to ROM mismatches from the prototype system. I'm unaware of whether that system ROM has been dumped or archived, but it would be wise to do that.
@@cftvdata Agreed. 7.5 had a broken TCP stack. Matched with a PowerPC 7200 (very popular at the time), no one could connect to the internet. System 8 was ok with the multitasking Finder copying. Some Copland technologies, and some NeXT influence. System 9 was fairly dreadful. The System 9 kernel was showing its age by then. I was so relieved when OS X came out and they got it stable and optimized with Tiger. What are your favorite OS X versions? I liked Tiger and Leopard, Snow Leopard, Maverick, and Mojave. I guess 7.1.2, Tiger, Snow Leopard were the best, IMO. I’m starting to like what they’ve done with the latest OS, with the vector based icons. Makes it faster and cleaner. I do miss some of the skeuomorphic designs sometimes.
It crashes about as often as System 5 & 6 did! It was mainly due to not using protected memory space. One thing about Macs is that OSX doesn't look that much different from System 6 or 7 desktops. Aside from features like the sidebar, dock, and desk accessories, if you're familiar with the old Mac computers, you can easily sit down in front of a modern day Mac and still recognize how to get around. In contrast for Windows: Windows 10 looks nothing like Windows 3.0.
Interestingly, that “Steve sez” icon could have been the genesis for the Macintosh face icons on the alert windows, the Happy Mac or even the Finder icon… Susan Kare may have combined that Steve portrait - which she may very well have designed herself at the suggestion of some engineer - with the “Bauhaus face” from Joost Schmidt’s 1923 Bauhaus Exhibition poster (the alert window face is *definitely modeled after that) for the whole ambiguous frontal/profile POV of the Finder and the monolinear profile with a pointy nose aesthetic. Someone should definitely ask her about it.
13:41 I love your interpretations "A more complete version of the same document" I would have been such staring at that in confusion but you just kept on rolling This is also the second of your videos in which I realized I had used an old piece of software as a kid back in the day, this time it was MacPaint, but obviously an official release version So thanks for the nostalgia!!!!!
MacPaint's windows were drawn by the application instead of the System. Even though it has a titlebar, it wasn't draggable. Later versions had system drawn windows.
Awesome ! thank you very much for all the effort into making these video's ! cool video! You definately deserve more viewers and subscribers, your video's are very well made and very informative for any retro enthousiast, be it mac or windows or any other OS from the past.
It's running in an emulator that runs at 10-20x speed simply because of CPU power. The flashing of the question mark must have been timed against the expected CPU speed.
@@jorisw_ That’s not how UI timing tasks like blinking animations were handled in MacOS. They were based off a system call named “TickCount”, which incremented 60.15 times per second. Sure, an emulator can run CPU-intensive code faster, but it needs to make sure that timing calls behave the same.
@Joseph This was a key point about the original Mac UI. Remember, it was designed by a team that was famous for its attention to detail. And by 1987, we already had Macs with greater clock speeds, yet the UI had to behave exactly the same. Some people actually didn’t like this. For example, when you released the mouse over a menu item, it would blink to confirm the menu selection. The speed of this blink was fixed, so it looked exactly the same even on faster machines. Some people felt this made the UI look like it was slow.
Next do a ClarisWorks expose, let people know that before MS Office was on Macs Claris was the best thing we had. I always preferred it to MS and was sad to see it go! On System 6 Powerbook Duo 230 from 1994!
Kevin Bhasi here is a link to one of devs tails www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=Hide_Under_This_Desk.txt&sortOrder=Sort+by+Date&topic=Hardware+Design
klokkefriken If you mean installing this as a native OS, you can’t. Classic Mac OS is written to work on different processors (680x0 and PowerPC), which doesn’t natively run on x86 CPUs. This is why you need an emulator (Mini vMac, Basilisk II or SheepShaver) to run it on top of Windows, macOS or Linux. If you’re feeling adventurous, you could try building a barebones Linux system running one of these emulators at boot (but it’s probably a tad too involving).
The only way you could is by using an actual Motorola 68k processor on an actual Macintosh 128k. The first version of macOS to support x86 processors is Mac OS X Tiger (10.4), if I recall correctly.
@Joseph No it wasn't just the design but also code. In the early 80's Bill Gates got the source code to Mac OS so he could better make apps for Apple. Bill Gates used some of the code to write Windows 1.0 in 1985. There was a lawsuit of Apple Vs. Microsoft of which Apple lost in 1994. The Judge ruled that Mac OS was based on Xerox of which was not protected...
Ummm, dude. MacPaint "looks like" Windows paint because everything microsoft did in the 80s and early 90s was a complete ripoff of Apple! Sorry to drudge up a very old flamewar (and I'm not even an Apple fan anymore), but for the love of God, don't make that comparison in REVERSE! The interface to this version of MacPaint is identical to the 1.0 that shipped in January 1984. Oh, and he's a modern replica, based on (IIRC) the original source code: www.cloudpaint.com/classic
11:52 Oh, I remember reading something about changing Aids to Goodies, because they were becoming aware of A.I.D.S. right around that time. You should really check out folklore.org, they have TONS of early macintosh stories.
Well Microsoft licensend Paintbrush from ZSoft and has its tools and colours alongside the top of the window. In windows 3.0 it got then split up and moved into the layout as shown here. So not really copied imho.
Love all the little bits of developer silliness in this, I bet it was a real fun task cleaning everything up for release!
Heard it. was such a pain in the ass Steve Jobs tried to ban all easter eggs in the 90s.. .of course didn't work lol.
the obscured 16:9 backdrop is very distracting, just have it letterbox, it's fine.
put a lot of smileys in the background
Agreed.
Mehh, kinda. I don't really mind it though.
Pillarbox
Even better, just upload a 4:3 video.
12:21 “Times New Roman” was a later Microsoft name. This is the original name “Times Roman”.
It still blows my mind that Apple was working on something like this in 1983, a couple years BEFORE I first got started on a DOS based machine. It just makes DOS seem so archaic even for 1983. The difference is just jaw dropping. A black screen with an A:> prompt where you could do some very basic commands vs. Mac OS prototype that had many of the modern things we still use today. People constantly shit on Apple but they really were ahead of their time.
More accurately computers were just far behind the curve, Apple Macs took computers and gave them proper controls like a mouse and speakers. The actual performance was low.
Before that it was beeps and ASCII, mainly because computers were tools of engineers rather than luxury toys for the home. So high performance but terribly hard to use. Macs are the opposite, fairly weak but really fun and easy to use.
File
Edit
*A I D S*
*A I D S*
*I I*
*D D*
*S S*
It's even worse when the menu right under "Aids" is called "Grid" (what they initially called AIDS)
They obviously saw this issue coming
(its named "goodies" in the final version)
Why aids
@@moccamixer I mean, was south park a thing back then? Around the time apple had this Prototype?
3:28 The ruler scrolls with the document contents because the ruler is actually an object in the document contents. Every time you want to change paragraph format settings, you insert a new ruler, which takes effect from that point until the end of the document, or the next ruler, whichever comes first.
That last menu in the Finder, "Interim" was always titled the name of the current build version so that everyone could instantly tell which build version they were using/testing/debugging. Clever folks there/then.
I love the Mac stuff you're doing lately. I've always used Windows PCs all my life so it's cool to see all this new old software.
3:13 The ruler scrolling out of view when you scrolled down is how MacWrite worked even in the final release. When you wanted to change any of those settings for a section, you'd insert a new ruler and make the adjustments there, and they'd stay in effect until the next ruler, and so on. Pretty different from how later word processors worked, and it tended to look a bit cluttered if you had a lot of formatting in your document, but it was very intuitive.
Not that I had anything to compare it to. For many people, including me, MacWrite was the first WYSIWYG word processor we'd ever seen.
8:34 “Bruce” would be Bruce Horn, who, along with Steve Capps, are named in the About box of the released Finder.
Great stuff. Even the Chicago system font was in its infancy. And it booted so fast it didn't need the "Welcome to Macintosh" greeting box.
I love the Steve Sez error message, I think it should have been in the released software. It’s hilarious.
8:06 That makes sense, because when you click on keys on that “KeyBoard Test” window, you are generating keystrokes to the currently-running application, namely the Finder. It is the Finder telling you it doesn’t (yet) support click-and-type-to-rename, you have to select a special menu item in the “Interim” menu for now.
Linotype and Monotype had a cross-licensing arrangement for Time Roman/Times New Roman going back to the 1930s. Linotype called their version "Times Roman" while Monotype called theirs "Times New Roman" (it was the _new roman_ typeface for The _Times_ of London). Apple licensed it from Linotype, hence it's called Times Roman. Microsoft licensed Times New Roman from Monotype. They are very similar (and interchangeable), but not identical.
That “Bruce” at 8:33 is obviously Bruce Horn, creator of the Finder and the Macintosh Resource Manager, and currently a member of the Siri and Language Technologies teams…
It’s amazing how he still works… on Siri.
10:30 Note the lack of a Standard File picker; you have to type the name of an existing document, not just of a new one.
A fascinating video on an interesting point in Apple’s history but please stop with the blurred extended background. It’s incredibly distracting and very naff.
Your voice is really soothing
Thanks!
You're welcome
@@MichaelMJD Hello, Microsoft Sam
I love how back then they had to put the @ place holder to design the apple logo, which ended up just being 8x8 black pixels :D
That isn't Apple that's part of the Emulator Basilisk that he is using. A real Apple Mac has the Apple logo baked into the character set of the system font. On Windows the system font has the @ symbol there instead of an Apple logo, as the official system font and that logo are trademarked.
The diskette icon is stored in the Toolbox (in ROM), and some o your emulation issues may be due to ROM mismatches from the prototype system. I'm unaware of whether that system ROM has been dumped or archived, but it would be wise to do that.
I had a 128k Mac with System 1 on it. Still have a Mac Classic with System 7.1.2, which was one of the best Mac OS releases, IMO.
7.1 to 7.6 were great. 8 and 9, not as much - in my opinion, at least.
@@cftvdata Agreed. 7.5 had a broken TCP stack. Matched with a PowerPC 7200 (very popular at the time), no one could connect to the internet. System 8 was ok with the multitasking Finder copying. Some Copland technologies, and some NeXT influence. System 9 was fairly dreadful. The System 9 kernel was showing its age by then. I was so relieved when OS X came out and they got it stable and optimized with Tiger. What are your favorite OS X versions? I liked Tiger and Leopard, Snow Leopard, Maverick, and Mojave. I guess 7.1.2, Tiger, Snow Leopard were the best, IMO. I’m starting to like what they’ve done with the latest OS, with the vector based icons. Makes it faster and cleaner. I do miss some of the skeuomorphic designs sometimes.
@@cftvdata Sorry for the long reply!
I always enjoy tech history. 😁
Glad to hear it! Thanks for watching
This John Kelley sounds just like me.
I'm happy to know that people like him were welcomed in Apple.
Too bad it's not like that anymore.
It crashes about as often as System 5 & 6 did! It was mainly due to not using protected memory space.
One thing about Macs is that OSX doesn't look that much different from System 6 or 7 desktops. Aside from features like the sidebar, dock, and desk accessories, if you're familiar with the old Mac computers, you can easily sit down in front of a modern day Mac and still recognize how to get around.
In contrast for Windows: Windows 10 looks nothing like Windows 3.0.
TonyP0927 We like it that way.
13:22 You are only looking at part of the drawing. Use the Hand tool to scroll around.
4:3 please
@@kreuner11 Because that was what the emulator is designed to run in. The blurry backdrop is distracting, as someone put it.
I don't see how it's distracting tho ._.
Interestingly, that “Steve sez” icon could have been the genesis for the Macintosh face icons on the alert windows, the Happy Mac or even the Finder icon… Susan Kare may have combined that Steve portrait - which she may very well have designed herself at the suggestion of some engineer - with the “Bauhaus face” from Joost Schmidt’s 1923 Bauhaus Exhibition poster (the alert window face is *definitely modeled after that) for the whole ambiguous frontal/profile POV of the Finder and the monolinear profile with a pointy nose aesthetic. Someone should definitely ask her about it.
Love Susan Kare's work,. It's a thing of beauty and probably helped define the entire 'look and feel' of the Mac experience.
13:41
I love your interpretations
"A more complete version of the same document"
I would have been such staring at that in confusion but you just kept on rolling
This is also the second of your videos in which I realized I had used an old piece of software as a kid back in the day, this time it was MacPaint, but obviously an official release version
So thanks for the nostalgia!!!!!
Are the disk images available anywhere so we can also relieve the good 'ol apple days?
This is really interesting! Do you know where I can download these images?
3 years late i know
Actually, Paint looks like MacPaint, not the other way around.
Correction... this does NOT look like MS Paint. MS Paint looks like THIS... this predates MS Paint. MS Paint didn't come out until Nov 1985.
I like how you consistently call it the Macintaj. :)
MacPaint's windows were drawn by the application instead of the System. Even though it has a titlebar, it wasn't draggable. Later versions had system drawn windows.
I wanna know what the censored text is...
was it censored due to obscenity or due to sensitive info?
obscenity toastytech.com/guis/twiggymacauthor.png
It says fucked up
shep also it says special Olympics. On the top bar in the text editor/viewer
Awesome ! thank you very much for all the effort into making these video's ! cool video!
You definately deserve more viewers and subscribers, your video's are very well made and very informative for any retro enthousiast, be it mac or windows or any other OS from the past.
Thanks so much for the kind words! :)
Trying this on a real one would be amazing !
9:28 Why does the question mark flash so fast? On the actual Mac, it had a frequency of about 0.5Hz, as I recall.
It's running in an emulator that runs at 10-20x speed simply because of CPU power. The flashing of the question mark must have been timed against the expected CPU speed.
@@jorisw_ That’s not how UI timing tasks like blinking animations were handled in MacOS. They were based off a system call named “TickCount”, which incremented 60.15 times per second. Sure, an emulator can run CPU-intensive code faster, but it needs to make sure that timing calls behave the same.
@Joseph This was a key point about the original Mac UI. Remember, it was designed by a team that was famous for its attention to detail. And by 1987, we already had Macs with greater clock speeds, yet the UI had to behave exactly the same.
Some people actually didn’t like this. For example, when you released the mouse over a menu item, it would blink to confirm the menu selection. The speed of this blink was fixed, so it looked exactly the same even on faster machines. Some people felt this made the UI look like it was slow.
Next do a ClarisWorks expose, let people know that before MS Office was on Macs Claris was the best thing we had. I always preferred it to MS and was sad to see it go! On System 6 Powerbook Duo 230 from 1994!
Where can the images be downloaded?
winworldpc.com/product/mac-os-0-6/twiggy-pre-release
there
@@ts__ze_ru Thanks
Can you please find and show the last Copland preview? It’s out there, it’s worth being seen
Could you elaborate on where to get this system, and what hardware have you used?
He used it on an emulator called Mini vMac. Agreed, would also like to know how to get hold of these disk images.
Also what is the obscene text????
the music at the end of this video felt like it was coming from behind me
Haha yeah, serious hard pan in those instruments.
ooo nice!!
Fascinating! Great stuff. However, you do tend to misuse the word "literally."
Where can we get the disk images?
Indeed I have two original Macintosh's from early 1984 I'd like to try it out on.
@@m9078jk3 Check the comment 2 above
@@circuit10 I did see the winworld site thanks
15:00 800K!? But the first machines shipped with only 400K drives!
Looks very GEM alike...
not only is it not macos 10 anymore it’s another version number so macos just works for any version unless you need to be specific
Where to dowload this version? I found other pre-releases on winworld, but I want this version.
i can really see how microsoft take every thing from here
Amazing
It was nickname Twiggy. That was the code word.
I.think they were marketed as "Apple FileWare" drives and diskettes, but I can't really confirm if.that was actually what happened.
Kevin Bhasi here is a link to one of devs tails www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=Hide_Under_This_Desk.txt&sortOrder=Sort+by+Date&topic=Hardware+Design
Can you make a video on how to install one of these old Mac OS systems as a main os on a pc. If it is possible?
klokkefriken If you mean installing this as a native OS, you can’t. Classic Mac OS is written to work on different processors (680x0 and PowerPC), which doesn’t natively run on x86 CPUs. This is why you need an emulator (Mini vMac, Basilisk II or SheepShaver) to run it on top of Windows, macOS or Linux.
If you’re feeling adventurous, you could try building a barebones Linux system running one of these emulators at boot (but it’s probably a tad too involving).
The only way you could is by using an actual Motorola 68k processor on an actual Macintosh 128k. The first version of macOS to support x86 processors is Mac OS X Tiger (10.4), if I recall correctly.
hmm.. I want to see if it works on the Lisa because the Lisa uses Twiggy drives
It wouldn’t. The Lisa is a different architecture. Not CPU, but the other hardware.
But on what machine or virtual machine are you testing this?
I’m using Mini vMac to run this! It’s a great freeware program
What kind of virtual emulator and ROM version are you using? Chicago isn't quite there yet.
He using Mini vMac. I think it uses a Macintosh Plus ROM.
Yeah we're
They should have had “Steve sez” in the final one 😭
Wher can we download the disk images
which emulator are you in to make this video??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
12:17 Hmm, notice the radio buttons don’t have a distinctive style (yet?).
What emulator did you use?
Mac OS has come a long way since then.....neat video!
Indeed it has! Thanks for the comment
how do you do this
"I'm not anniversary Inshore"
How can I get a dump of this?
What did FREAKOUT say?
Some swear word
*F U C K E D U P* 😊
There's also a sex joke at the top "C'mon b*tch, give me some header."
wheres the damn download?
Macintaj :-)
Prototype of "System 1"
When you finished drawing in the McPaint, My head Exploded of the black and white dots on the screen...
Bill Gates stole the code for Windows from Apple. It's not surprising Macpaint looks Windows Paint...
@Joseph No it wasn't just the design but also code. In the early 80's Bill Gates got the source code to Mac OS so he could better make apps for Apple. Bill Gates used some of the code to write Windows 1.0 in 1985. There was a lawsuit of Apple Vs. Microsoft of which Apple lost in 1994. The Judge ruled that Mac OS was based on Xerox of which was not protected...
ok
ProtOS
My life for Aiur!
13:57 Looks like they di-
I CAN'T EVEN TRY IT OUT...
Macpaint, Macdraw, Macsketch...
File
Edit
AIDS
The menu “aids” was changed to “goodies” in the final release.
>Macintauge
👀
👀
You have the same voice as the early Mac speech :) are you really a robot?
Technically a beta.
Oh hai there
Just randomly commenting
Sorry
Guy Twig sorry for what
Hello I'm more of a Windows computer person I don't really like apple that much
Say prototype again...
Prototype
“Prodotype”
Love it.
Edit : First
how bout' using real hardware?
Looks like windows paint? Dude. No.
Ummm, dude. MacPaint "looks like" Windows paint because everything microsoft did in the 80s and early 90s was a complete ripoff of Apple! Sorry to drudge up a very old flamewar (and I'm not even an Apple fan anymore), but for the love of God, don't make that comparison in REVERSE!
The interface to this version of MacPaint is identical to the 1.0 that shipped in January 1984.
Oh, and he's a modern replica, based on (IIRC) the original source code: www.cloudpaint.com/classic
11:52 Oh, I remember reading something about changing Aids to Goodies, because they were becoming aware of A.I.D.S. right around that time.
You should really check out folklore.org, they have TONS of early macintosh stories.
This one mentions "Aids":
www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=Busy_Being_Born,_Part_2.txt
10:30 You realize this was before Microsoft Paint? Who copied whom, again?
Well yes, Microsoft did copy Apple, but Apple wasn't clean either, cause the GUI OSes started to come around before the Lisa.
Well Microsoft licensend Paintbrush from ZSoft and has its tools and colours alongside the top of the window. In windows 3.0 it got then split up and moved into the layout as shown here. So not really copied imho.
jkr: Just kidding, right?
*abc def ghi jkl mno pqr stu vwx yz is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their country!*