Wedge anchors need to be installed according to manufacturer's installation instructions. The slab was not monolithic with the outer foundation wall. Per manufacturer, there is a minimum distance required to edge of concrete. It appears the anchor was too close to the edge and could cause the edge of concrete to spall. A minor crack can cause a failure of the anchor and have it become loose or completely pull out. With 25 years in the construction industry doing inspection, I have seen many cases of improperly installed anchors fail due to improper edge distance. While I applaud this video to show what went wrong on the install, the fix was not the best method. Suggestions- Mix the concrete with proper water amount. While it being self leveling making it easier to place, extra water reduces strength and causes additional shrinkage as the concrete cures. That shrinkage can pull the new concrete to the center and leave a small gap around the edge of the repair. While the gap might be minimal, the patch is now relying on the dowels to secure it. Make the repair foundation much deeper and have it go under the existing slab so it is "keyed in". Garage floors are normally poured separately so they float. Except along the foundation wall, roughen the edge of the cut concrete slab so the patch bonds. Industry standard is 1/4" amplitude of roughness. Better yet, also apply epoxy to the now roughened edge so patch is bonded to and becomes part of slab instead of a plug held in place by a few dowels. If you don't use epoxy, wet the edge of the existing slab so it doesn't absorb water out of the new concrete. The existing rebar was against the earth. They should not be relied on. New dowels should have gone completely from side to side in the slab overlapping full length. Set dowels in existing slab with epoxy except along the outer foundation. Dowels could be installed into the foundation, but with no epoxy. The dowel should slide easily.. Any type of wedge anchor installed at the edge of the slab would most likely fail again. An undercut style of wedge anchor might help. A cast in place anchor would have been best, but harder to reinstall the lift over anchor. If the cast anchor was not possible an epoxy set rod would most likely been the better route to go as long as instructions were followed to the letter. If this comment looks like a keyboard warrior saying "you did it wrong", please remember what the title of the video said, they can kill. Get professional help if you are not familiar with what is required. Sometimes the fix can create a false sense of security and be a problem as well.
I completely agree, Sean. About ten minutes in, the author says "if you've never done something before, do some research and ask questions. The worst thing is that you might have to do it over". Except that in safety critical tasks, the worst thing might be a serious injury to yourself or a loved one. I have a 10k lift in my shop, and before I installed it, I called the manufacturer. My concrete is six inches deep and is more than adequate, but Mohawk (the manufacturer) told me that if I had any problems and needed to cut and pour a new section, it should be 4 ft by 12 ft wide (across the stall) and 12 inches deep, keyed under the existing slab and reinforced with rebar. Overkill? Probably, but in this case overkill is miles better than not good enough. I dont think the author took his own advice, those little new sections are inadequate by any manufacturer's standards.
Lift manufacturers usually recomend the size of the new "pads" if you feel the concrete is unstable....etc. in my case they recommended at least 4 ft by 4ft pads keyed and tied into the old concrete. In my case i went 9 ft front to back and 16 ft across......so effectively one slab for both posts. And usually the bolts are required to be a certain distance from the edge of concrete....in some cases a minimum of six inches. I wouln't put any any bolts any closer than 18 inches from an edge.....
Just did a new 3 bay garage with a 10k mohawk lift....directly under the lift posts we put 3 foot diameter by 4 foot deep corrugated tubes and filled them with concrete.....then poured the slab...she ain't going anywhere.
Thanks for the knowledge, I have to ask tho. I'm about to pour my floor in the garage. 4inches everywhere. Would it be safe enough to just pour deeper arouns the pads? Say about 8 inches deep and about 2x2 foot square with rebar in it?
@@NateM13In addition to reading the comments here, I would at a minimum consult the manufacturer’s specifications for your lift. I would never recommend going ahead with a concrete pour without having selected a lift and fully comprehending the requirements for floor strength. Garage slabs at 4 inches are the absolute minimum for nothing more than a vehicle sitting on them, and are routinely poured over barely prepared soil. I guarantee that the first time you get under a vehicle sitting on your lift you won’t think, “I sure wish I just went went the absolute minimum amount of concrete and rebar.”
You need to re title this video to How to do the job wrong a second time. Absolutely unsafe and incorrect actions taken to correct the floor issue for a lift.
I saw many things wrong with the original install and the "repairs" that where made did not improve the level of safety. Your lift was trying to kill you and your giving it a second chance.
I installed my lift in 2009 outside. I consulted a friend who is a PE. He said do not mix your own concrete and to imbed anchor bolts in the concrete pour. This was the best advice ever! No problems!
@@garagekeys Concrete compression strength is highly dependent on hydration. If you need high strength much better to have it delivered. His mix in the video was so wet there is no way it would achieve 5000psi. If he checked the slump with the proper tool he would have seen the mix was far too wet. I find these videos amazing, people with zero engineering background installing these things that will lift 5000# vehicles that they will then stand under. Recipe for disaster.
There is insufficient connection between the relatively small concrete blocks he poured to the surrounding concrete. This won’t resist the overturning moment of the towers. The height/width ratios involved in this setup result in very large forces. Using J bolts also would have been better as well. I’ll stick with Jack stands and a creeper thank you.
I’m no engineer but I would made them bigger for sure. But also he’s hampered by the closeness of the wall to the post on the one side, the fatal flaw imho.
As a professional, and certified lift installer, this is terrifying to watch. Next time please hire someone who knows what they're doing, from start to finish.
If you know what you're doing it's not an issue. This guy clearly has ABSOLUTELY NO CLUE and should not be doing any of this let alone recording himself for other people to imitate.
The building has a12” footing..why would you just do a 7” one not very smart. Should got some professional advice on larger footings and used used concrete imbedded anchors like they use on large sign posts. UA-cam videos scare the crap out of me on what people do at times.
Have worked in civil design and construction (qualified) for 20 years. This patch does not meet design standards for expected loads. I have concern for the safety of people working around this "fix". It is recommended you get professional design advice before starting jobs with high bending moments.
I saw two problems here with the install. I believe that right post was to close to the out edge of the floor. He floors are usually poured separately from the footings so you were right on the edge. Also the bolts are sticking way to far out you need to put the nut on the stud and take a deadblow and hammer it all the way down the hole then tighten them and they should hold.
@@CaseTheCorvetteMan Yes exactly anyone with any knowledge of what they are doing knows the bolts puled out because of seriously poor workmanship and a person who has no idea of what he is doing .
@@johnnystoka6625 you know what is worst about these sort of videos? People watch them and actually think this dude is an expert... they actually look to this sort of video for advice of sorts... Scary thought, but that's youtube and the digital age!!
I purchased a Bendpack 9000lb 2 post lift with the base plate like yours. I was fortunate because I was pouring all new concrete in the bay it was going in. The manufacturer required 12" thick pads underneath the posts for new concrete. I actually did 3' x 3' x 3' underneath each post. Yup, 1 yd of concrete under each post. totally overkill. Each time I went to lift something, I checked the torque of the bolts. Each time, I had to re-torque the bolts. Thats when I figured out the tops of the posts were like yours, deflecting inward. I then extended the top of the posts to reach the framing of the ceiling. I cross braced everything between the trusses, then added steel angles to triangulate each post to continuous framing in the ceiling. problem solved!
Thank you for having the BALLS to admit this and share. I'm not kidding. I'm in the mist of getting a garage built for a future lift and all these guys are telling me, oh 4 inches is plenty blah blah blah, I said the same I don't feel safe with that. I'm actually going to pour an 8 inch slab. Thanks brother. Great video.
just seen you old post, pour footings for it, at lest 2' square and use j bolts to attach the lift, if you can. even better would be one footing 2'x2' and 12' long with rebar on 8" centers, the best thing would be is have a civil engineer draw it up.
@Danish Roy following the minimum is like driving your car with two of eight lug nuts on a tire. Did a quick look at bendpak requirements, existing 4.5" slab with a core sample sent off to make sure it's sound. New slabs they want 48"x48"x12" deep with a detailed layout for rebar. "Don't build it for its best day, build it for its worst day" In other words build it the best you can.
@@FleetTech97 Depends on the quality of the concrete, and the proximity to the edge. If you're installing on a preexisting pad, a core sample should be sent out for testing.
So close. I agree with many of the safety comments and how the lift was definitely placed in a bad spot the first time around and concerns that it is not a great deal safer after the second install. Though I applaud the effort and I think any other first time self installer will gain a great deal of knowledge after watching and then reading all the replies. So thank you for the getting the conversation going. I am not surprised the post right against the wall moved. But I am very surprised the other post which was straddling all the expansion joints was not as bad or worse. The holes cut in the concrete for the repair could have been bigger, but and easy alternative that was "so close" would have been to add a post hole digger/auger to that list of rented tools and dig a 3ft hole (maybe 12" dia or so) on top of making sure to notch under the existing concrete (which I think there was a bit of that done) and then use cast in "J" bolts. If getting the lift over the "J" bolts was to be a concern then coupling nuts could have been added to the top of a "J" bolt creating a female anchor point resulting in the use of anchors bolts instead of anchor nuts to bolt down the lift. My MaxJax lift uses female wedge anchors. They work great and of course since my concrete was already there and fiber reinforced 6" deep they are rock solid.
So many people don't understand concrete. I'm a mecahic of 16 years but for 4 years from 14.5 YO on I worked for my father in concrete repair. Basically you want to use chem sets, the only thing stronger is to concrete in the threads, you could argue chem set is stronger. I've drilled thousands of holes, the trick is to use an old concrete drill bit on the SDS plus 2 drill, for wedge anchors. This is because in 25-30mpa concrete you will hit either hard rocks or steel which makes the bit wobble enlarging the hole. A worn bit makes a tighter hole perfect for wedge anchors. But chem set is good because it can grab onto threads and the concrete.
One thing all the genius viewers who commented never touched on is that if you watch closely the weight of the truck pulls post arms inward as weight lift increases. Absolutely the lift needed a good enough pier to sit on and thats a fact. HOWEVER theres no spreader bar at the top between the lift posts. Im not saying a spreader bar would be the total solution however it would help displace the weight load. I have a Rotary 2 post lift with a bar inbetween the 2 posts at the very top to keep posts from wanting to pull inward.I DO have a 10" depth with rebar and "X" (high strength pour mix) on my entire garage floor. Im sure my pour and rebar combined are great but I also think the top bar (which this unit didnt come equipped with?) also helps dramatically with handeling the load as the vehicle goes up. It keeps the posts from pulling inward.
I know it has been a long time since you posted this but I agree strongly with many of the other commenters. Expansion anchors can not be place that close to the edge of a slab. All literature indicates 6 inches minimum and 12 inches is better. Also those replacement slabs are not nearly large enough. I would recommend the slab extend three feet in all directions from the base of the lift. Other than the dowels you have no overturning resistance. All you did was make the base of your lift thicker. A safe connection would have required a structural connection to the foundation wall at least 6 inches (more is better) below the top of the footing. Your anchors looked like they were too small in diameter. Use the largest anchor that will fit in the base holes. The use of epoxy vrs expansion anchors should be either /or not both. Epoxy requires an over size hole. Expansion anchors require a tight hole.
Well, I think you made another mistake, you should have made those new concrete patch larger, reason is that the new patch are not naturally connected with the old one so there is a disconnection, looks like that is connected to the rest of the slab, he may work but I would worry a little the option there was to go even deeper and remove dirt under the concrete slab so that the new concrete would have fill in a wider area under the one that you have and would have looked in the bottom, like a mushroom upside down, all the best
You read my mind! Same thing I thought when I saw the size of the patch. If you're going to cut out a portion of your floor to handle the stresses of a lift, the width and length of the new section needs to at the very least be equal to the length of the lift arms. With plenty of rebar and correct concrete mix. And as long as your going by the length of the arms, just go beyond that and make it one large section. I hope he lives through the second and far grander mistake.
I'm definatley no engineer, but I would have gone with a full lift width slab about 6-8" thick x 4' wide and used "J" bolts tied to the rebar. Why use wedge bolts with fresh concrete?
There's a lot going on here and has been touched on by a few comments. Definitely needed to undercut the existing slab before pouring new pads. Also please wear PPE when working with concrete dust. That stuff is nasty for the lungs.
People , be very carful at your buddys backyard shop with a lift. These lifts should not be sold to the general public. If the floor was not initially poured with the intention of having a lift installed you should not even think about it.
lol..Ive been working on cars for 30 years and installed my own 2 post lift in my brand new shop.The shop floor at my work is well over 50 years old and hold my hoists fine.The one i installed in my own shop was installed less than a year after being built in 4" concrete with heated floor.NO PROBLEMS!I guarantee that 4" is all you need!i lift f450's on foth of mine without a problem
I agree with Sean Horton. Also, some lift manufacturers specify the minimum distance from the anchor bolt to the edge of the slab, usually two feet. Unfortunately, AMGO does not give this detail in their installation instructions.
Should have just hammered the anchors through the slab and inserted epoxy threaded bar and then had a 6mm steel spreader overplate cut to the existing and installed over with another 4-5 threaded bars or anchors. The anchors have the advantage that they fail slowly whereas the epoxy bar would fail quickly so best mix the two and of course never epoxy the lag bolts that's crazy as you have to place and torque them superfast before set and you will get no further expansion If they slip later to lower torque and will just spin. Anchors shouldn't be used close to edge or each other.If going the cut out route Then footers here are way too small to support this lift and It could be much worse than what you started with, I would have cut between too so it was one piece and double layered the a393 mesh so the anchor or high tensile threaded epoxied bar was below the first level of mesh instead of ziptied rebar nice first effort though, time to rehire the tools and go again... Ps the other problem apart from anchors close to the edge of new slab here is control joints on concrete so it's all cracked there. Basically this set up is a ticking time bomb. If I was to get under a car with that lift I would lower the car intimately onto two transmission jacks that were rated for the cars weight to stop a world trade center style collapse with a margin if they exist.A post here shows how to do it with bi level rebar but I recommend welded mesh rather than galvanised wire tied rebar, in this cas you can epoxy in 11 inch high tensile 16mm steel threaded bar in an 18mm hole with inch equivelents www.garagejournal.com/forum/threads/2-post-lift-n-cracking-concrete.306274/ Nice second effort though , now time to rehire tools and fix it, third time lucky🙂
My lift is exactly the same as that but is just a different color. I used the supplied wedge anchors and they were being pulled out of the 8 inch concrete. So I made an over engineered bracket that spans the outer bolts and uses 4 additional chemset bolts. It has never moved again.
Also he epoxied the anchors in when those aren’t for epoxy he let the epoxy cure so that’s why he got torque reading but the wedge never engaged because we epoxied it in place
The post is too close to the edge of the slab. On my lift, the instructions state not to get close to the edge of the slab or close to an expansion joint. It is on a 4” slab that has glass fiber in it. Been up 9 years and no issues.
I witnessed a fellow who had a 4" slab add a 2'x2'x 2" thick pad to the top .....his thought was it's 6 ", thats what they call for ........he was 2 fries short of a happy meal !
Absolutely terrible and this pad is still dangerous... your rebar is 100% wrong... I will do a video reply in a few days perhaps but, you should not use this pad.
But, you put your effort, no doubt about it. But, and there's always a but, if you have searched or consulted with the right person, you would have done it only once, and for good. :(
Why not put anchor bolts in when pouring the pads. Might be stronger than the hammer in expanding anchors. A little tricky to get them set in correct position for the holes in the lift base. I might have just braced between the top of the columns.
We pour anchor bolts in many patterns. The big stuff comes with templates/bearing plates. The small stuff we just make plywood templates and double nut the anchor bolts in them. It makes them idiot proof.
This is mental. Even if you pour fresh concrete into the cutouts you've made, the lift towers can still move, taking that block of concrete with them. You should have demolished a much larger area encompassing both lift towers and everything between them.
i actually have done this before for a shop did two lifts but the foundation was only about 8 inches deep i made it to go about 24 inches deep for added stability and i also put more rebar in made a box so to speak we marked everything for the lifts so they can be anchored in without hitting rebar
The new concrete poor should go all the way between the posts and go down at least 8 inches, and the cement should go under the existing floor as far as possible
Concrete has no strength in a couple of inches forced under an existing pour, 4-6 inches with rebar in that lip. Ideally, yes an 8 inch thickness, at least 8 inches away from any expansion anchor, and rebar continuous doweled into all 4 sides of the existing slab, and more than what is there. Although doweling at only 2 inches down is not ideal.
I personally would have dug the dirt underneath the existing slab about 4 " from the edge all around and make it 12" deep to create a shoulder for when you pour the new concrete in addition to you drilling into the existing slab and to place bended rebar into the 12" deep hole with stirrups. It might be just slight overkill but it'll give you peace of mind.
My 9000lb lift is on a 4" floor with no problems after 15 years. BUT, fiber reinforced, cured for over 10 years before install. And I'm very careful to balance vehicle. On my heavier trucks I will weigh them to determine center of gravity before lifting.
I'm a commercial general contractor. I have a 12'000 lb. lift in my garage on 4" concrete. I had my 11,500 lb. ambulance on it for 2 months and ran it at 60 MPH on the lift. If you do the math of the square inches on the foot on 4000 psi concrete you will see the problem is not the concrete it's the anchors. There is more pressure on the concrete per square inch when the car is parked than when it's on the lift. We us'3/8" to 3/4" Tapcon's on most stuff.
Nice video. I had the same issue. I redid entire floor at 6 in min then 8inch at posy. 4000 lbs with mesh rebar and fiber in concrete. I also made a plate and welded all thread with nuts on bottom side and positioned them in place before pouring concrete around them. Thus I believe this will be even stronger as rather than a small ancor sleeve I now have an entire footing at twice tge size of column pads tobolt to. I'll try and post a pic
Why didnt you put studs into the new concrete instead of going back to expansion bolts? Easy to have the local weld shop make an insert plate with welded on studs that would NEVER pull out. I am a structural welder and retired crane inspector.
1. Did the manufacturer recommend a 4 inch footing (slab/floor)? If so, I would shy away from that company. If you are lifting something 4-6' off the ground and the arms extend out 3-4' imagine the leverage forces put on that footing. Just my guess but I would want a 4'x4' area of the slab minimum 8-10" thick. And that is if it was well connected to surrounding slab. 2. As long as you had to tear up the slab, why not embed L or J shaped anchor bolts into the wet concrete? 3. Your new footing is not well connected to adjacent slab. One fix would be to use more rebar connections and to apply an adhesion solution to sides of old slab before pouring. Better yet, undercut slab so footing will extend out under slab. 4. Your very, very watered down concrete mix is going to be much lower than 5000psi. And it should be "cured" by keeping it damp/covered 21-28 days to prevent evaporation and loss of strength. 5. I think you have a floating slab that is not/should not be connected to the walls. If so, you should not have rebarred/connected the slab/footing to the wall. 6. Welding a larger steel plate with more bolt holes to the base of posts would help some, too. 7. Adding a crossmember connecting the tops of the posts would help prevent them from leaning toward each other. I hope your "fix" works out well for you but I have some concerns for your safety.
Yes, the epoxy bonded the expansion sleeve to the shank. I have heard of people using epoxy with expansion bolts but they torque the bolts within a couple of minutes before the epoxy has a chance to set/bond. Glad you got it figured out and this vid was very useful for other people who may be doing the same job. Good work and glad no one was hurt. 👍 All the best.
I agreed with almost all comments about this, except for the one comment about mixing concrete too dry. Too wet results in weaker concrete. Trying to make it soupy so it would be self-leveling is really silly and counter productive. Whoever poured your original garage slab did a very poor job. It looks like the subgrade was not leveled prior to pour and the rebar was not embedded properly in the concrete, so it was useless and would corrode prematurely. Because of the poor quality of original slab pour, I'm very suspicious that the subgrade was ever compacted properly before it was poured. One more thing that struck me is how small the base plates are on your posts. My 8k# Mohawk lift bases appear to be twice as big and twice as thick as yours which would add extra stability.
50mpa concrete is the go, then leave it to cure for 1 month, at a depth of 8" 200mm, then set your posts, and NEVER cut concrete with the water off, NEVER cut without respiratory protection as the concrete dust can kill you, even mixing the concrete you were breathing in the silica dust Silica dust is very fine, much smaller than a tiny grain of sand found on a beach. This is what makes it so easy to inhale. If you look at the full stop at the end of the previous sentence, that is around 200-300 micrometres in diameter. Whereas the respirable crystalline silica particle is only 5 micrometres in size. If inhaled it can create a health hazard all the way from simple and instant irritation to life-changing and often life-threatening lung diseases. Crystalline silica is a designated known human carcinogen meaning it is a definite cause of cancer in humans. Once you breathe it in it can go deep into your lungs and stay there - permanently scarring and damaging the lung tissue.
Technically rebar is not intended to be exactly in the middle of concrete. It is intended to reduce stress on the concrete in the direction in which it is forced, but not be in contact with the soil. So a concrete pad wants to “fall” inward because of weight and gravity. You want the rebar to be under tension, not compression. So on a floor the rebar should be located at the bottom of the pad, but completely encased in the concrete. On a wall structure, you want the rebar to be placed opposite to where the force is applied. Basement wall, rebar more towards the inside surface. The wall is being forced towards the inside of the basement, and rebar towards the inside, is trying to be elongated in tension. If it was on the outside surface, the rebar would be under compression, and Not what it is designed for. The details in things like this helps understand its purpose and prevent placement mistakes in the future.
4 1/2” is the general rule for “minimum” requirements in depth and 4000 lbs for concrete strength. When pouring a pad to make right any insufficiencies you need to take out at least 3’x4’ or a preferred 4’x4’ area and then dig it down to 8” deep, undercut (which means to dig a bit Under the existing concrete a couple of inches), and pin it to the existing concrete with several sections of rerod. Two or three 8” pieces embedded 4“ in the cut faces should do it. Normal quick Crete is NOT good enough! Use hi-early 4000 lb poured all within time enough for it to be one slab finished as one piece. Not new Crete pour in on the drying last batch. If you can’t mix it up in volume enough or quick enough, Call for cement to be delivered. I’ve put in well over six thousand lifts probably more likely close to seven thousand over the last twenty some years and I knew by the first images of your lift with it still installed that your problem wasn’t “not enough cement”, it was the lack of anchor being embedded in the floor. Always drill all the way through the floor and always use brand named anchors. Cheap lifts come with cheap, useless anchors as a rule. In fact in the anchors they provide have a lock washer….. Throw them out and buy hiltes or wedgits or redheads, something good enough that you can count on, or to, “bet the farm on”. That thing is going to be holding a car over your head. You want to know it will do that safely.
I’m not familiar with the name. I’ve not seen them in the places we go for supplies here in the Midwest. (Iowa) Brand names can often be regional and I have no experience with that one. But a good test is to put one into use. That is, if you can acquire one to sample. You can tell a lot about it’s quality, by hammering that anchor into a cleanly drilled hole and tightening it down on something. The hole should be drilled straight, with little to no uneven, augured spirals visible on the sides of the hole, as if the drill was struggling and it took too long, and the person using the drill was wobbly and working to hard. Like as using too small of a drill. Use a real hammer drill, big enough to do the job, and if you can’t get one, rent one. When you hammer it down, have the nut screwed on flush to the top, it should take at least some effort to do it. Leave some room for shims and level the lift perfectly plumb, filling in any gaps under each anchor with shims before hammering them all the way down, and tightening when installing a lift. Once the anchor is set and ready to tighten, you can feel how well it bites into the sides of the cement and snugs the wedge firmly into the hole as the anchor is tightened up. Hopefully it cinches down, good and tight, and more importantly quickly with very few turns of the nut before it tightens up at some torque specs that are sufficient enough for comfort or requirements. Ultimately, you should not have many threads showing through the nut when tightened to satisfaction. (100 to 120 foot pounds pressure) And tighten them by hand. There is not too many, and it’s the best way to get good embedment. And, you must drill all the way through, or drill deeper than the amount of anchor you expect to imbed into the floor and blow the dust out leaving a clean hole. If you leave dust in the hole, the anchor will not go in far enough to utilize the cement you have available to anchor the lift to full potential. As for hammering back down and retightening to get a deeper hold, good luck! The wedge may get driven down too, already tightened on the hilt, and just end up eroding the area that it is biting into. When you tighten it again, you could loose ground instead of gain. It’s best to drill clean through so if necessary you can drive it down and put a better anchor in. As I have stated before, the best anchor that I (personally) have found is Hilte’s wedge anchors. They grab the hole and snug down right as soon as you start to tighten them. Exactly as intended every time. I’ve had to drive failing anchors down and put Hiltes in on top of the failed anchors in the same hole. Unfortunately, our usual supplier no longer sells Hilte brand or any varieties anymore, they are only carrying Dewalt brand now. The Dewalts are pretty good but I set them down flush and then I tighten the nut up about three threads over the top and hammer a bit deeper before I start to tighten them.
My god You should’ve hired a pro , it’s people like you that make my job difficult. I install lifts for a living and even your new pads are going to fail .
when I built my garage I had a 1 foot thick footing poured around the perimeter and a 1 foot thick 2 foot wide support poured all the way across where my lift would be bolted to the floor with high grade concrete.
That would be better but he doesn't have the room to lift the post OVER the studs. The top of the post will hit the ceiling first. Also, he likely has no means of lifting the post.
I would cut out the dry wall above to see if there is room between the ceiling joists. Drywall repair would be nothing compared to the amount of work he just put into that concrete
Here is what I did. Did exactly 1M by 1M squares and 40CM deep. Concrete mix was 1 Cement, 2 Sand, 3 Aggregate. The guy who came to drill, had a tough time even though he is muscular. The drill bit broke. Return second day, the second one broke and he was like wtf is this piece of shit. I calmed him down and paid him for another drill bit plus soke extra for his trouble. Do not play with the mix! And always keep the anchors at least 4 inches from edge of final slab.
Good idea and common sense that flew over my head when you said you were going to fix it. Good job Think you could have put some acrylic glue mixed into the cement to make it stronger. Looks mixed with to much water which makes it weaker I think. Should put some late steel over the new concrete that also goes about 6 inches over the old concrete and bolt it to the concrete then install the lift poles
I cut a section out at least triple the size of the foot of the lift, then dig up under the slab as far as you can stand(lying on your stomach digging gets old)then I make a template of plywood of the foot bolt pattern and use that to hold jbolts when pouring the concrete. I always get the concrete from the local concrete plant as they know how to mix it and I dont.
the best fix for this would have been rip up 2' wide between the posts and extend beyond the posts by 2' and down at lest 2', with a rebar on 8" centers, also tieing it into the existing slab. use J bolts in the concrete to attach the lift. you want it scookum enough that you feel comfortable with your kids under a car supported by it. all the lift is going to do is push those pads into the dirt.
My guy instinct would say - installing on the edge of the pad is a very bad idea. The anchor bolts need a lot of concrete all around them... Other thing that might have helped is a top bar - but it would only increase your odds slightly.
Wow this was hard to watch. The first failure I pretty much knew before you revealed the problem that the anchors didn’t grab deep enough in the concrete. The repair I can only speculate that it’s not gonna be safe either. You needed to go at least 12” deep under the existing slab.
wet set is the best way to go... red head bolts stink. when you pour cement wet it has no psi. the dryer you pore cement the stronger it is. wet cement is half as strong. and is weak
I'm just wondering why you did not install the bolts in the concrete when the concrete was wet and then go ahead and set your beams on top no need for drilling and waiting and all that stuff but everybody's different.
The issue is much easier solved by tying the top of the tower to the wall. For the other tower that is in the middle of the garage, run a metal cable along the ceiling so it's not in the way, and tie to the opposite wall using a binder or something. Towers won't be able to flex inwards.
The hoist should never have been installed so close to the edge of slab or the joints. This is why it failed. Anyone looking to do this, please find other videos.
I would never have the controls next to the wall. If the vehicle slips/falls, you have no place to run. Double masonry anchors and epoxy is the way to go for anchoring a lift. Did you even make sure that the concrete was at least 6" thick? It's unlikely that the concrete has the right PSI for a lift too. You're risking a lot being in that situation. Remember to have the lift inspected by a licensed inspector/installer. Don't be surprised if your insurance company makes you remove it. most homeowner policies don't allow it and will cancel your policy. They will also notify your finance company that you are without insurance, and you could end up forfeiting your mortgage and house.
Coming from someone that has done concrete work of all kinds for 20 years. This was horrifying to watch. Watching you with the partner saw and the jackhammer without even wearing boots was amazingly stupid. Initially. Bolting your lift down within inches of the slab edge was your first huge mistake. Edge of any slab is the weakest spot and you deserved for your truck to fall off. You got lucky.
Watched about 1/4 of the video until he started cutting the floor, no safety protection of any kind, eyes, ears, feet, nothing and he's worrying about his lift falling over🤔🤔🤔🤔
Wow. The major flaw was/is your installation. Survived round one, ding ding, round 2 underway. Lift up 1-0 soon to be 2-0 with the final shot coming up. Perfect example of how not to "fix" it. I don't even know where to start with what's wrong with this... People...sometimes you need to leave things to the ones capable of such tasks...
Presetting “J” bolts would’ve been better, anchor bolts tend to loosen and move up and down over time. Whenever using anchor bolts, I would recommend using a bonding agent or an epoxy in the holes as you install them for added strength. Nice video.😬👍
I welded a metal plate with nuts under it and placed the plate in the concrete, so I can use bolts to attach the posts, making it easy to remove them (and yes the plate had extended metal rods into the concrete all around it). When I did remove them, I put them in existing concrete and did the expansion studs (which came with the used lift, as he used jbolts in his original install, so had the expansion studs unused). So now I have to move it again, and how can I tilt the towers down with stud sticking up hold it in place?
Sorry to say this, but it may help someone who is considering installing a two post lift. First off, the 'pads' or footings should be much larger and deeper. It also appears that the posts are too close together. Not much room to open the car doors for better access. Putting the posts wider will lower the lifting capacity. I had a Mohawk two post lift installed at my house but it was a major pain getting in and out of the car. I moved the posts 12" wider and installed bumpers to prevent the doors hitting the posts. My expansion bolts did not need any epoxy and they were set deep and pulled tight in place. Good luck...
You poured it really wet, not sure if that makes it weaker. All finishers, constantly hand float it until it is done. I hope you let it cure a good while before you re-installed
Rebar doesn't need to be in middle, lower third as concrete doesn't do well in tension and thus the need for rebar. The small pad is not large enough and should be tied into the foundation wall.
Death trap. The new concrete pads are not the proper fix. Not big enough in cubic footage. Need to be many times thicker and more square footage, heavily reinforced with rebar. As they are now, a off balance raised vehicle can pull those pads up and topple the lift. Certified lift installer should be mandatory.
I'm flummoxed. In Europe, the specs for a pad for this kind of lift is either a 20cm/8in slab 4mx3m (12x9ft) or two blocks 3mx1m (10x3) and 0.8m deep (short of 3ft). And min 20cm distance to the edge. And I've never heard of putting epoxy on this kind of anchor. There's special epoxy anchors for that.
The person who is really flummoxed is the clown who posted the video. He obviously cares nothing about safety, operating dangerous tools the way he does. Nor is his “repair” in any way adequate, starting with the fact that the concrete was way too wet to cure anywhere near the rated strength, and he didn’t bother to cover it with plastic sheeting to slow the curing. Terrifying.
QUESTION; would one of the lifts that connects with a cross member at the top have prevented this? I’m not trying to be a know it all, just considering installing one myself and figured the cross member at the top would stop all this side pressure? I’m also wondering if you could bolt a thick steel plate down first with extra holes where it bolts down presently? The plate should spread out the pressure per square foot. Now that I’m thinking about it, all the above but weld the larger plate on so the large plate bolts down and it bolts through the current holes too?
Jerry, No a connection that the top would have hidden the problem but not resolved it. It was caused by my failure when used the epoxy and that didn't allow that the anchors to bite into the concrete.
I had the same problem in my shop with the 3 lifts installed by "professionals" when i bought them. All anchors where loose. My repair was to tighten up the anchors to expose much of the bolt, then remove the nut and cut the anchor, then hammer the remaining bolt down until it went into the soil (how fast it went into the soild showed me my floor was only 4 inches thick) Cleaned the holes with air and injected concrete epoxy untill started oozing out, installed new anchors and tight them cpl days later. That worked for 10 more years lifting limos everyday. When i sold the building and took the lifts off, i tried sledge hammer the anchors in and the would now move, i had to cut them off. Thats how hard the epoxy was. Just my experience. Not a concrete expert.
Looks to me like the anchor bolts just failed or werent installed correctly. Theres no telling how many lifts have been installed on 4" slabs(3.5) that have held up
I know your feeling. I have the Maxjax lift and it has the wedge anchors too. I don't like them at all. I couldn't get them to bite either in my 4 in concrete. I changed most of them out for the epoxy anchors and those are solid. I didn't have any issues after going the epoxy route.
I manage large construction projects, the last one of these we did was for a 2.5t lift, the pads were over 1m deep by 1.5 wide!! Those small pads will not resist the rotational forces😢
I don't trust above groundd lifts..as u shown..in this video..I got an Rotary inground lift..used..air over oil. The oil tank is above ground..,so no EPA issues..it's going in my garage at home..it only needs 150psi from my air compressor.. open clean floor look. My dad had 5 lifts in his shop..never had issues in 45years he owned his station..
You got it..... it has nothing to do with the lift , but everything to do with your foundation! Thank goodness you "caught it" . Don't forget to tie in the "pads" with some rebar to the existing surroundings / foundation.
Glad your safe , but dome anchors aren't ment to be hammerdrilled ,not saying you did. Some anchors need to be drilled ,the hammer drill wallows out and creates deceptive fitting anchors...
Not all concrete is created equal these things happen. If it was me I would have moved the lift more towards the center of the garage I couldn't do the things I do up close to that wall. You could also tie the tops of the posts with some square tubing and totally eliminate that problem.
Wedge anchors need to be installed according to manufacturer's installation instructions. The slab was not monolithic with the outer foundation wall. Per manufacturer, there is a minimum distance required to edge of concrete. It appears the anchor was too close to the edge and could cause the edge of concrete to spall. A minor crack can cause a failure of the anchor and have it become loose or completely pull out. With 25 years in the construction industry doing inspection, I have seen many cases of improperly installed anchors fail due to improper edge distance.
While I applaud this video to show what went wrong on the install, the fix was not the best method. Suggestions-
Mix the concrete with proper water amount. While it being self leveling making it easier to place, extra water reduces strength and causes additional shrinkage as the concrete cures. That shrinkage can pull the new concrete to the center and leave a small gap around the edge of the repair. While the gap might be minimal, the patch is now relying on the dowels to secure it.
Make the repair foundation much deeper and have it go under the existing slab so it is "keyed in".
Garage floors are normally poured separately so they float. Except along the foundation wall, roughen the edge of the cut concrete slab so the patch bonds. Industry standard is 1/4" amplitude of roughness.
Better yet, also apply epoxy to the now roughened edge so patch is bonded to and becomes part of slab instead of a plug held in place by a few dowels. If you don't use epoxy, wet the edge of the existing slab so it doesn't absorb water out of the new concrete.
The existing rebar was against the earth. They should not be relied on. New dowels should have gone completely from side to side in the slab overlapping full length. Set dowels in existing slab with epoxy except along the outer foundation. Dowels could be installed into the foundation, but with no epoxy. The dowel should slide easily..
Any type of wedge anchor installed at the edge of the slab would most likely fail again. An undercut style of wedge anchor might help. A cast in place anchor would have been best, but harder to reinstall the lift over anchor. If the cast anchor was not possible an epoxy set rod would most likely been the better route to go as long as instructions were followed to the letter.
If this comment looks like a keyboard warrior saying "you did it wrong", please remember what the title of the video said, they can kill. Get professional help if you are not familiar with what is required. Sometimes the fix can create a false sense of security and be a problem as well.
I completely agree, Sean. About ten minutes in, the author says "if you've never done something before, do some research and ask questions. The worst thing is that you might have to do it over". Except that in safety critical tasks, the worst thing might be a serious injury to yourself or a loved one. I have a 10k lift in my shop, and before I installed it, I called the manufacturer. My concrete is six inches deep and is more than adequate, but Mohawk (the manufacturer) told me that if I had any problems and needed to cut and pour a new section, it should be 4 ft by 12 ft wide (across the stall) and 12 inches deep, keyed under the existing slab and reinforced with rebar. Overkill? Probably, but in this case overkill is miles better than not good enough. I dont think the author took his own advice, those little new sections are inadequate by any manufacturer's standards.
Lift manufacturers usually recomend the size of the new "pads" if you feel the concrete is unstable....etc. in my case they recommended at least 4 ft by 4ft pads keyed and tied into the old concrete. In my case i went 9 ft front to back and 16 ft across......so effectively one slab for both posts. And usually the bolts are required to be a certain distance from the edge of concrete....in some cases a minimum of six inches. I wouln't put any any bolts any closer than 18 inches from an edge.....
Just did a new 3 bay garage with a 10k mohawk lift....directly under the lift posts we put 3 foot diameter by 4 foot deep corrugated tubes and filled them with concrete.....then poured the slab...she ain't going anywhere.
Thanks for the knowledge, I have to ask tho. I'm about to pour my floor in the garage. 4inches everywhere. Would it be safe enough to just pour deeper arouns the pads? Say about 8 inches deep and about 2x2 foot square with rebar in it?
@@NateM13In addition to reading the comments here, I would at a minimum consult the manufacturer’s specifications for your lift. I would never recommend going ahead with a concrete pour without having selected a lift and fully comprehending the requirements for floor strength. Garage slabs at 4 inches are the absolute minimum for nothing more than a vehicle sitting on them, and are routinely poured over barely prepared soil. I guarantee that the first time you get under a vehicle sitting on your lift you won’t think, “I sure wish I just went went the absolute minimum amount of concrete and rebar.”
You need to re title this video to How to do the job wrong a second time. Absolutely unsafe and incorrect actions taken to correct the floor issue for a lift.
No videos for a year. Hope his lift didn't actually kill him. Yes, this repair is FUBAR.
I saw many things wrong with the original install and the "repairs" that where made did not improve the level of safety. Your lift was trying to kill you and your giving it a second chance.
Dude has only posted 2 videos after this one and nothing in 2 years.. hope it didn’t get him..
I installed my lift in 2009 outside. I consulted a friend who is a PE. He said do not mix your own concrete and to imbed anchor bolts in the concrete pour. This was the best advice ever! No problems!
What's wrong with mixing your own concrete?
@@garagekeys Concrete compression strength is highly dependent on hydration. If you need high strength much better to have it delivered. His mix in the video was so wet there is no way it would achieve 5000psi. If he checked the slump with the proper tool he would have seen the mix was far too wet. I find these videos amazing, people with zero engineering background installing these things that will lift 5000# vehicles that they will then stand under. Recipe for disaster.
There is insufficient connection between the relatively small concrete blocks he poured to the surrounding concrete. This won’t resist the overturning moment of the towers. The height/width ratios involved in this setup result in very large forces. Using J bolts also would have been better as well. I’ll stick with Jack stands and a creeper thank you.
I would put a metal piece on top of the lift posts spanning them.
That how most of them are built.
I’m no engineer but I would made them bigger for sure. But also he’s hampered by the closeness of the wall to the post on the one side, the fatal flaw imho.
What is the point of a lift with no more roof clearance than this has?
@@zaneturner4478 So that it can be used in a low-ceiling situation like this.
As a professional, and certified lift installer, this is terrifying to watch. Next time please hire someone who knows what they're doing, from start to finish.
Agreed! I would never attempt this myself. You could get killed or kill somebody else quick if not done right..
If you know what you're doing it's not an issue. This guy clearly has ABSOLUTELY NO CLUE and should not be doing any of this let alone recording himself for other people to imitate.
What did he do wrong? Asking cause I don’t know and like to hear the correct way.
The building has a12” footing..why would you just do a 7” one not very smart. Should got some professional advice on larger footings and used used concrete imbedded anchors like they use on large sign posts. UA-cam videos scare the crap out of me on what people do at times.
Have worked in civil design and construction (qualified) for 20 years. This patch does not meet design standards for expected loads. I have concern for the safety of people working around this "fix". It is recommended you get professional design advice before starting jobs with high bending moments.
Besides what's already been mentioned, it's essential to clean ALL debris from drilling out of the holes before inserting the expansion bolts.
I saw two problems here with the install. I believe that right post was to close to the out edge of the floor. He floors are usually poured separately from the footings so you were right on the edge. Also the bolts are sticking way to far out you need to put the nut on the stud and take a deadblow and hammer it all the way down the hole then tighten them and they should hold.
Yes.. had to take a break from videos for Covid & Life. I'll be sending a video out eventually. The bolts pulled out due to failure.
@@honeybadgermotorworks7561 thanks looking forward to seeing
@@honeybadgermotorworks7561 No, the bolts pulled out due to INCORRECT INSTALLATION.
@@CaseTheCorvetteMan Yes exactly anyone with any knowledge of what they are doing knows the bolts puled out because of seriously poor workmanship and a person who has no idea of what he is doing .
@@johnnystoka6625 you know what is worst about these sort of videos? People watch them and actually think this dude is an expert... they actually look to this sort of video for advice of sorts...
Scary thought, but that's youtube and the digital age!!
that self leveling concrete is no longer 5000 psi
I purchased a Bendpack 9000lb 2 post lift with the base plate like yours. I was fortunate because I was pouring all new concrete in the bay it was going in. The manufacturer required 12" thick pads underneath the posts for new concrete. I actually did 3' x 3' x 3' underneath each post. Yup, 1 yd of concrete under each post. totally overkill. Each time I went to lift something, I checked the torque of the bolts. Each time, I had to re-torque the bolts. Thats when I figured out the tops of the posts were like yours, deflecting inward. I then extended the top of the posts to reach the framing of the ceiling. I cross braced everything between the trusses, then added steel angles to triangulate each post to continuous framing in the ceiling. problem solved!
I plan to do something similar when I do my pad pour. Not cheapin out
Thank you for having the BALLS to admit this and share. I'm not kidding. I'm in the mist of getting a garage built for a future lift and all these guys are telling me, oh 4 inches is plenty blah blah blah, I said the same I don't feel safe with that. I'm actually going to pour an 8 inch slab. Thanks brother. Great video.
just seen you old post, pour footings for it, at lest 2' square and use j bolts to attach the lift, if you can.
even better would be one footing 2'x2' and 12' long with rebar on 8" centers, the best thing would be is have a civil engineer draw it up.
4 inch is enough depending on manufacturer. I trust an engineers calculations. If they said 4 inch is ok then I will do 4.
@Danish Roy following the minimum is like driving your car with two of eight lug nuts on a tire. Did a quick look at bendpak requirements, existing 4.5" slab with a core sample sent off to make sure it's sound.
New slabs they want 48"x48"x12" deep with a detailed layout for rebar.
"Don't build it for its best day, build it for its worst day"
In other words build it the best you can.
@@FleetTech97 Depends on the quality of the concrete, and the proximity to the edge. If you're installing on a preexisting pad, a core sample should be sent out for testing.
@Danish Roy you obviously don't value your life highly
So close. I agree with many of the safety comments and how the lift was definitely placed in a bad spot the first time around and concerns that it is not a great deal safer after the second install. Though I applaud the effort and I think any other first time self installer will gain a great deal of knowledge after watching and then reading all the replies. So thank you for the getting the conversation going. I am not surprised the post right against the wall moved. But I am very surprised the other post which was straddling all the expansion joints was not as bad or worse. The holes cut in the concrete for the repair could have been bigger, but and easy alternative that was "so close" would have been to add a post hole digger/auger to that list of rented tools and dig a 3ft hole (maybe 12" dia or so) on top of making sure to notch under the existing concrete (which I think there was a bit of that done) and then use cast in "J" bolts. If getting the lift over the "J" bolts was to be a concern then coupling nuts could have been added to the top of a "J" bolt creating a female anchor point resulting in the use of anchors bolts instead of anchor nuts to bolt down the lift. My MaxJax lift uses female wedge anchors. They work great and of course since my concrete was already there and fiber reinforced 6" deep they are rock solid.
Post was installed far too close to the edge of the slab. Most lifts call for minimum 6"- 8" from the edge or from any joint.
So many people don't understand concrete.
I'm a mecahic of 16 years but for 4 years from 14.5 YO on I worked for my father in concrete repair.
Basically you want to use chem sets, the only thing stronger is to concrete in the threads, you could argue chem set is stronger.
I've drilled thousands of holes, the trick is to use an old concrete drill bit on the SDS plus 2 drill, for wedge anchors.
This is because in 25-30mpa concrete you will hit either hard rocks or steel which makes the bit wobble enlarging the hole. A worn bit makes a tighter hole perfect for wedge anchors.
But chem set is good because it can grab onto threads and the concrete.
One thing all the genius viewers who commented never touched on is that if you watch closely the weight of the truck pulls post arms inward as weight lift increases. Absolutely the lift needed a good enough pier to sit on and thats a fact. HOWEVER theres no spreader bar at the top between the lift posts. Im not saying a spreader bar would be the total solution however it would help displace the weight load. I have a Rotary 2 post lift with a bar inbetween the 2 posts at the very top to keep posts from wanting to pull inward.I DO have a 10" depth with rebar and "X" (high strength pour mix) on my entire garage floor. Im sure my pour and rebar combined are great but I also think the top bar (which this unit didnt come equipped with?) also helps dramatically with handeling the load as the vehicle goes up. It keeps the posts from pulling inward.
I know it has been a long time since you posted this but I agree strongly with many of the other commenters. Expansion anchors can not be place that close to the edge of a slab. All literature indicates 6 inches minimum and 12 inches is better. Also those replacement slabs are not nearly large enough. I would recommend the slab extend three feet in all directions from the base of the lift. Other than the dowels you have no overturning resistance. All you did was make the base of your lift thicker. A safe connection would have required a structural connection to the foundation wall at least 6 inches (more is better) below the top of the footing. Your anchors looked like they were too small in diameter. Use the largest anchor that will fit in the base holes. The use of epoxy vrs expansion anchors should be either /or not both. Epoxy requires an over size hole. Expansion anchors require a tight hole.
That was informative information!!!
Good comment…Makes a lot of sense.
Well, I think you made another mistake, you should have made those new concrete patch larger, reason is that the new patch are not naturally connected with the old one so there is a disconnection, looks like that is connected to the rest of the slab, he may work but I would worry a little the option there was to go even deeper and remove dirt under the concrete slab so that the new concrete would have fill in a wider area under the one that you have and would have looked in the bottom, like a mushroom upside down, all the best
You read my mind! Same thing I thought when I saw the size of the patch. If you're going to cut out a portion of your floor to handle the stresses of a lift, the width and length of the new section needs to at the very least be equal to the length of the lift arms. With plenty of rebar and correct concrete mix. And as long as your going by the length of the arms, just go beyond that and make it one large section. I hope he lives through the second and far grander mistake.
I think he put rebar to connect the plug to the rest of the floor
@@ScreamingEagleFTW he did not drill into the old slab and tie the new and old rebar with wire he used loose cable ties
I'm definatley no engineer, but I would have gone with a full lift width slab about 6-8" thick x 4' wide and used "J" bolts tied to the rebar. Why use wedge bolts with fresh concrete?
There's a lot going on here and has been touched on by a few comments. Definitely needed to undercut the existing slab before pouring new pads. Also please wear PPE when working with concrete dust. That stuff is nasty for the lungs.
Should have made them pads much bigger
People , be very carful at your buddys backyard shop with a lift. These lifts should not be sold to the general public. If the floor was not initially poured with the intention of having a lift installed you should not even think about it.
lol..Ive been working on cars for 30 years and installed my own 2 post lift in my brand new shop.The shop floor at my work is well over 50 years old and hold my hoists fine.The one i installed in my own shop was installed less than a year after being built in 4" concrete with heated floor.NO PROBLEMS!I guarantee that 4" is all you need!i lift f450's on foth of mine without a problem
I agree with Sean Horton. Also, some lift manufacturers specify the minimum distance from the anchor bolt to the edge of the slab, usually two feet. Unfortunately, AMGO does not give this detail in their installation instructions.
My lift they call out a distance away from expansion joints/cuts as well…
Should have just hammered the anchors through the slab and inserted epoxy threaded bar and then had a 6mm steel spreader overplate cut to the existing and installed over with another 4-5 threaded bars or anchors. The anchors have the advantage that they fail slowly whereas the epoxy bar would fail quickly so best mix the two and of course never epoxy the lag bolts that's crazy as you have to place and torque them superfast before set and you will get no further expansion If they slip later to lower torque and will just spin. Anchors shouldn't be used close to edge or each other.If going the cut out route Then footers here are way too small to support this lift and It could be much worse than what you started with, I would have cut between too so it was one piece and double layered the a393 mesh so the anchor or high tensile threaded epoxied bar was below the first level of mesh instead of ziptied rebar nice first effort though, time to rehire the tools and go again...
Ps the other problem apart from anchors close to the edge of new slab here is control joints on concrete so it's all cracked there. Basically this set up is a ticking time bomb. If I was to get under a car with that lift I would lower the car intimately onto two transmission jacks that were rated for the cars weight to stop a world trade center style collapse with a margin if they exist.A post here shows how to do it with bi level rebar but I recommend welded mesh rather than galvanised wire tied rebar, in this cas you can epoxy in 11 inch high tensile 16mm steel threaded bar in an 18mm hole with inch equivelents
www.garagejournal.com/forum/threads/2-post-lift-n-cracking-concrete.306274/
Nice second effort though , now time to rehire tools and fix it, third time lucky🙂
You're absolutely correct half inch or 1 inch plate welding the lift to the plates in the right areas or you can even bolt the lift to the plates
My lift is exactly the same as that but is just a different color. I used the supplied wedge anchors and they were being pulled out of the 8 inch concrete. So I made an over engineered bracket that spans the outer bolts and uses 4 additional chemset bolts. It has never moved again.
Also he epoxied the anchors in when those aren’t for epoxy he let the epoxy cure so that’s why he got torque reading but the wedge never engaged because we epoxied it in place
It was far too close the the edge of the slab.
Would not trust 6 inches either
The post is too close to the edge of the slab. On my lift, the instructions state not to get close to the edge of the slab or close to an expansion joint. It is on a 4” slab that has glass fiber in it. Been up 9 years and no issues.
I witnessed a fellow who had a 4" slab add a 2'x2'x 2" thick pad to the top .....his thought was it's 6 ", thats what they call for ........he was 2 fries short of a happy meal !
Absolutely terrible and this pad is still dangerous... your rebar is 100% wrong... I will do a video reply in a few days perhaps but, you should not use this pad.
Totally agree. :).
More depth, more concrete, bigger size, more rebar, more of everything! :)
But, you put your effort, no doubt about it. But, and there's always a but, if you have searched or consulted with the right person, you would have done it only once, and for good. :(
Why not put anchor bolts in when pouring the pads. Might be stronger than the hammer in expanding anchors. A little tricky to get them set in correct position for the holes in the lift base. I might have just braced between the top of the columns.
We pour anchor bolts in many patterns. The big stuff comes with templates/bearing plates. The small stuff we just make plywood templates and double nut the anchor bolts in them. It makes them idiot proof.
This is mental. Even if you pour fresh concrete into the cutouts you've made, the lift towers can still move, taking that block of concrete with them. You should have demolished a much larger area encompassing both lift towers and everything between them.
i actually have done this before for a shop did two lifts but the foundation was only about 8 inches deep i made it to go about 24 inches deep for added stability and i also put more rebar in made a box so to speak we marked everything for the lifts so they can be anchored in without hitting rebar
The new concrete poor should go all the way between the posts and go down at least 8 inches, and the cement should go under the existing floor as far as possible
Concrete has no strength in a couple of inches forced under an existing pour, 4-6 inches with rebar in that lip.
Ideally, yes an 8 inch thickness, at least 8 inches away from any expansion anchor, and rebar continuous doweled into all 4 sides of the existing slab, and more than what is there. Although doweling at only 2 inches down is not ideal.
Your lift didnt almost kill you. You almost killed your self. Definitely dont know what your doing.
all automotive lifts require 4000 psi concrete residential garages are 2500psi
When cutting concrete you only need enough water to stop the dust, not flood the garage.
I personally would have dug the dirt underneath the existing slab about 4 " from the edge all around and make it 12" deep to create a shoulder for when you pour the new concrete in addition to you drilling into the existing slab and to place bended rebar into the 12" deep hole with stirrups. It might be just slight overkill but it'll give you peace of mind.
Jfig... The video doesn't probably show that well but I actually went probably 6-8 underneath and rebar tied the two pieces together
My 9000lb lift is on a 4" floor with no problems after 15 years. BUT, fiber reinforced, cured for over 10 years before install. And I'm very careful to balance vehicle. On my heavier trucks I will weigh them to determine center of gravity before lifting.
I'm a commercial general contractor. I have a 12'000 lb. lift in my garage on 4" concrete. I had my 11,500 lb. ambulance on it for 2 months and ran it at 60 MPH on the lift. If you do the math of the square inches on the foot on 4000 psi concrete you will see the problem is not the concrete it's the anchors. There is more pressure on the concrete per square inch when the car is parked than when it's on the lift. We us'3/8" to 3/4" Tapcon's on most stuff.
Cured for 10 years ...lol
Most lift manufacturers tell you anchor bolts should be installed at a six inch minimum to saw cuts in concrete
It’s almost like he tried to violate every rule…😢
Nice video. I had the same issue. I redid entire floor at 6 in min then 8inch at posy. 4000 lbs with mesh rebar and fiber in concrete.
I also made a plate and welded all thread with nuts on bottom side and positioned them in place before pouring concrete around them. Thus I believe this will be even stronger as rather than a small ancor sleeve I now have an entire footing at twice tge size of column pads tobolt to. I'll try and post a pic
Why didnt you put studs into the new concrete instead of going back to expansion bolts? Easy to have the local weld shop make an insert plate with welded on studs that would NEVER pull out. I am a structural welder and retired crane inspector.
1. Did the manufacturer recommend a 4 inch footing (slab/floor)? If so, I would shy away from that company. If you are lifting something 4-6' off the ground and the arms extend out 3-4' imagine the leverage forces put on that footing. Just my guess but I would want a 4'x4' area of the slab minimum 8-10" thick. And that is if it was well connected to surrounding slab.
2. As long as you had to tear up the slab, why not embed L or J shaped anchor bolts into the wet concrete?
3. Your new footing is not well connected to adjacent slab. One fix would be to use more rebar connections and to apply an adhesion solution to sides of old slab before pouring. Better yet, undercut slab so footing will extend out under slab.
4. Your very, very watered down concrete mix is going to be much lower than 5000psi. And it should be "cured" by keeping it damp/covered 21-28 days to prevent evaporation and loss of strength.
5. I think you have a floating slab that is not/should not be connected to the walls. If so, you should not have rebarred/connected the slab/footing to the wall.
6. Welding a larger steel plate with more bolt holes to the base of posts would help some, too.
7. Adding a crossmember connecting the tops of the posts would help prevent them from leaning toward each other.
I hope your "fix" works out well for you but I have some concerns for your safety.
Yes, the epoxy bonded the expansion sleeve to the shank. I have heard of people using epoxy with expansion bolts but they torque the bolts within a couple of minutes before the epoxy has a chance to set/bond.
Glad you got it figured out and this vid was very useful for other people who may be doing the same job.
Good work and glad no one was hurt. 👍
All the best.
Clueless people wouldn’t tighten the bolts before the epoxy set 😂
The Boeing sweatshirt really makes this video
I agreed with almost all comments about this, except for the one comment about mixing concrete too dry. Too wet results in weaker concrete. Trying to make it soupy so it would be self-leveling is really silly and counter productive.
Whoever poured your original garage slab did a very poor job. It looks like the subgrade was not leveled prior to pour and the rebar was not embedded properly in the concrete, so it was useless and would corrode prematurely. Because of the poor quality of original slab pour, I'm very suspicious that the subgrade was ever compacted properly before it was poured.
One more thing that struck me is how small the base plates are on your posts. My 8k# Mohawk lift bases appear to be twice as big and twice as thick as yours which would add extra stability.
50mpa concrete is the go, then leave it to cure for 1 month, at a depth of 8" 200mm, then set your posts, and NEVER cut concrete with the water off, NEVER cut without respiratory protection as the concrete dust can kill you, even mixing the concrete you were breathing in the silica dust
Silica dust is very fine, much smaller than a tiny grain of sand found on a beach. This is what makes it so easy to inhale.
If you look at the full stop at the end of the previous sentence, that is around 200-300 micrometres in diameter. Whereas the respirable crystalline silica particle is only 5 micrometres in size.
If inhaled it can create a health hazard all the way from simple and instant irritation to life-changing and often life-threatening lung diseases.
Crystalline silica is a designated known human carcinogen meaning it is a definite cause of cancer in humans.
Once you breathe it in it can go deep into your lungs and stay there - permanently scarring and damaging the lung tissue.
Technically rebar is not intended to be exactly in the middle of concrete. It is intended to reduce stress on the concrete in the direction in which it is forced, but not be in contact with the soil. So a concrete pad wants to “fall” inward because of weight and gravity. You want the rebar to be under tension, not compression. So on a floor the rebar should be located at the bottom of the pad, but completely encased in the concrete. On a wall structure, you want the rebar to be placed opposite to where the force is applied. Basement wall, rebar more towards the inside surface. The wall is being forced towards the inside of the basement, and rebar towards the inside, is trying to be elongated in tension. If it was on the outside surface, the rebar would be under compression, and Not what it is designed for. The details in things like this helps understand its purpose and prevent placement mistakes in the future.
This video just come up in my feed and I’ve not watched you before, but all I got from this video is that you work dangerously 🤯
4 1/2” is the general rule for “minimum” requirements in depth and 4000 lbs for concrete strength.
When pouring a pad to make right any insufficiencies you need to take out at least 3’x4’ or a preferred 4’x4’ area and then dig it down to 8” deep, undercut (which means to dig a bit Under the existing concrete a couple of inches), and pin it to the existing concrete with several sections of rerod. Two or three 8” pieces embedded 4“ in the cut faces should do it. Normal quick Crete is NOT good enough!
Use hi-early 4000 lb poured all within time enough for it to be one slab finished as one piece. Not new Crete pour in on the drying last batch. If you can’t mix it up in volume enough or quick enough, Call for cement to be delivered.
I’ve put in well over six thousand lifts probably more likely close to seven thousand over the last twenty some years and I knew by the first images of your lift with it still installed that your problem wasn’t “not enough cement”, it was the lack of anchor being embedded in the floor.
Always drill all the way through the floor and always use brand named anchors. Cheap lifts come with cheap, useless anchors as a rule. In fact in the anchors they provide have a lock washer…..
Throw them out and buy hiltes or wedgits or redheads, something good enough that you can count on, or to, “bet the farm on”.
That thing is going to be holding a car over your head. You want to know it will do that safely.
I agree. Are Confast wedge anchors decent? If an anchor wasnt installed deep enough can you knock it down further and retorque?
I’m not familiar with the name.
I’ve not seen them in the places we go for supplies here in the Midwest. (Iowa) Brand names can often be regional and I have no experience with that one. But a good test is to put one into use. That is, if you can acquire one to sample.
You can tell a lot about it’s quality, by hammering that anchor into a cleanly drilled hole and tightening it down on something. The hole should be drilled straight, with little to no uneven, augured spirals visible on the sides of the hole, as if the drill was struggling and it took too long, and the person using the drill was wobbly and working to hard. Like as using too small of a drill.
Use a real hammer drill, big enough to do the job, and if you can’t get one, rent one. When you hammer it down, have the nut screwed on flush to the top, it should take at least some effort to do it.
Leave some room for shims and level the lift perfectly plumb, filling in any gaps under each anchor with shims before hammering them all the way down, and tightening when installing a lift.
Once the anchor is set and ready to tighten, you can feel how well it bites into the sides of the cement and snugs the wedge firmly into the hole as the anchor is tightened up. Hopefully it cinches down, good and tight, and more importantly quickly with very few turns of the nut before it tightens up at some torque specs that are sufficient enough for comfort or requirements. Ultimately, you should not have many threads showing through the nut when tightened to satisfaction.
(100 to 120 foot pounds pressure)
And tighten them by hand.
There is not too many, and it’s the best way to get
good embedment.
And, you must drill all the way through, or drill deeper than the amount of anchor you expect to imbed into the floor and blow the dust out leaving a clean hole. If you leave dust in the hole, the anchor will not go in far enough to utilize the cement you have available to anchor the lift to full potential.
As for hammering back down and retightening to get a deeper hold, good luck!
The wedge may get driven down too, already tightened on the hilt, and just end up eroding the area that it is biting into. When you tighten it again, you could loose ground instead of gain. It’s best to drill clean through so if necessary you can drive it down and put a better anchor in.
As I have stated before, the best anchor that I (personally) have found is Hilte’s wedge anchors.
They grab the hole and snug down right as soon as you start to tighten them. Exactly as intended every time.
I’ve had to drive failing anchors down and put Hiltes in on top of the failed anchors in the same hole.
Unfortunately, our usual supplier no longer sells Hilte brand or any varieties anymore, they are only carrying Dewalt brand now.
The Dewalts are pretty good but I set them down flush and then I tighten the nut up about three threads over the top and hammer a bit deeper before I start to tighten them.
Watching this is like watching a car crash in slow motion.
He hasn’t posted for two years…😢
The manufacturer has no control over the quality of the slab.
My god You should’ve hired a pro , it’s people like you that make my job difficult. I install lifts for a living and even your new pads are going to fail .
when I built my garage I had a 1 foot thick footing poured around the perimeter and a 1 foot thick 2 foot wide support poured all the way across where my lift would be bolted to the floor with high grade concrete.
No update in 1 year. Hopefully his truck didn’t fall off and crush him 😮
You could have installed studs since you poured concrete, instead of installing anchors again.
That would be better but he doesn't have the room to lift the post OVER the studs. The top of the post will hit the ceiling first. Also, he likely has no means of lifting the post.
I would cut out the dry wall above to see if there is room between the ceiling joists. Drywall repair would be nothing compared to the amount of work he just put into that concrete
Here is what I did. Did exactly 1M by 1M squares and 40CM deep. Concrete mix was 1 Cement, 2 Sand, 3 Aggregate.
The guy who came to drill, had a tough time even though he is muscular. The drill bit broke. Return second day, the second one broke and he was like wtf is this piece of shit. I calmed him down and paid him for another drill bit plus soke extra for his trouble. Do not play with the mix! And always keep the anchors at least 4 inches from edge of final slab.
Good idea and common sense that flew over my head when you said you were going to fix it. Good job Think you could have put some acrylic glue mixed into the cement to make it stronger. Looks mixed with to much water which makes it weaker I think. Should put some late steel over the new concrete that also goes about 6 inches over the old concrete and bolt it to the concrete then install the lift poles
I cut a section out at least triple the size of the foot of the lift, then dig up under the slab as far as you can stand(lying on your stomach digging gets old)then I make a template of plywood of the foot bolt pattern and use that to hold jbolts when pouring the concrete. I always get the concrete from the local concrete plant as they know how to mix it and I dont.
the best fix for this would have been rip up 2' wide between the posts and extend beyond the posts by 2' and down at lest 2', with a rebar on 8" centers, also tieing it into the existing slab. use J bolts in the concrete to attach the lift.
you want it scookum enough that you feel comfortable with your kids under a car supported by it.
all the lift is going to do is push those pads into the dirt.
Oh man, to be honest, this made me cringe.
My guy instinct would say - installing on the edge of the pad is a very bad idea.
The anchor bolts need a lot of concrete all around them...
Other thing that might have helped is a top bar - but it would only increase your odds slightly.
Just about to install mine, will be going with resin and studs. thanks for the video.
Wow this was hard to watch. The first failure I pretty much knew before you revealed the problem that the anchors didn’t grab deep enough in the concrete. The repair I can only speculate that it’s not gonna be safe either. You needed to go at least 12” deep under the existing slab.
wet set is the best way to go... red head bolts stink. when you pour cement wet it has no psi. the dryer you pore cement the stronger it is. wet cement is half as strong. and is weak
I'm just wondering why you did not install the bolts in the concrete when the concrete was wet and then go ahead and set your beams on top no need for drilling and waiting and all that stuff but everybody's different.
The issue is much easier solved by tying the top of the tower to the wall. For the other tower that is in the middle of the garage, run a metal cable along the ceiling so it's not in the way, and tie to the opposite wall using a binder or something. Towers won't be able to flex inwards.
Residential framing would fold like a cardboard box if a person did as you describe. Get real.
An Idiot idea.
The hoist should never have been installed so close to the edge of slab or the joints. This is why it failed. Anyone looking to do this, please find other videos.
I would never have the controls next to the wall. If the vehicle slips/falls, you have no place to run. Double masonry anchors and epoxy is the way to go for anchoring a lift. Did you even make sure that the concrete was at least 6" thick? It's unlikely that the concrete has the right PSI for a lift too. You're risking a lot being in that situation. Remember to have the lift inspected by a licensed inspector/installer. Don't be surprised if your insurance company makes you remove it. most homeowner policies don't allow it and will cancel your policy. They will also notify your finance company that you are without insurance, and you could end up forfeiting your mortgage and house.
Coming from someone that has done concrete work of all kinds for 20 years. This was horrifying to watch. Watching you with the partner saw and the jackhammer without even wearing boots was amazingly stupid.
Initially. Bolting your lift down within inches of the slab edge was your first huge mistake. Edge of any slab is the weakest spot and you deserved for your truck to fall off. You got lucky.
Have you considered a four post lift instead?
It might be for the best
Has he considered getting a professional to install them😂
Watched about 1/4 of the video until he started cutting the floor, no safety protection of any kind, eyes, ears, feet, nothing and he's worrying about his lift falling over🤔🤔🤔🤔
Original installation was over an expansion joint. Hope the final redo was good
Hey where is part two to this video? Really wanted to see how this turned out...
Wow. The major flaw was/is your installation. Survived round one, ding ding, round 2 underway.
Lift up 1-0 soon to be 2-0 with the final shot coming up.
Perfect example of how not to "fix" it. I don't even know where to start with what's wrong with this...
People...sometimes you need to leave things to the ones capable of such tasks...
Presetting “J” bolts would’ve been better, anchor bolts tend to loosen and move up and down over time. Whenever using anchor bolts, I would recommend using a bonding agent or an epoxy in the holes as you install them for added strength. Nice video.😬👍
How can you install a j bolt after the concrete is in place? Or are you supposed to do that beforehand with a fresh pour?
@@acetech9237 that’s correct, you set them with the form, prior to the pour.
😉👍
I welded a metal plate with nuts under it and placed the plate in the concrete, so I can use bolts to attach the posts, making it easy to remove them (and yes the plate had extended metal rods into the concrete all around it). When I did remove them, I put them in existing concrete and did the expansion studs (which came with the used lift, as he used jbolts in his original install, so had the expansion studs unused). So now I have to move it again, and how can I tilt the towers down with stud sticking up hold it in place?
Sorry to say this, but it may help someone who is considering installing a two post lift. First off, the 'pads' or footings should be much larger and deeper. It also appears that the posts are too close together. Not much room to open the car doors for better access. Putting the posts wider will lower the lifting capacity. I had a Mohawk two post lift installed at my house but it was a major pain getting in and out of the car. I moved the posts 12" wider and installed bumpers to prevent the doors hitting the posts. My expansion bolts did not need any epoxy and they were set deep and pulled tight in place.
Good luck...
When I was shopping for lifts all of them I seen stated you needed at least 6 inches of concrete for anchoring
Correct, minimum requirement is a 6" slab for a lift.
You poured it really wet, not sure if that makes it weaker. All finishers, constantly hand float it until it is done. I hope you let it cure a good while before you re-installed
Rebar doesn't need to be in middle, lower third as concrete doesn't do well in tension and thus the need for rebar. The small pad is not large enough and should be tied into the foundation wall.
Death trap. The new concrete pads are not the proper fix. Not big enough in cubic footage. Need to be many times thicker and more square footage, heavily reinforced with rebar. As they are now, a off balance raised vehicle can pull those pads up and topple the lift. Certified lift installer should be mandatory.
I'm flummoxed. In Europe, the specs for a pad for this kind of lift is either a 20cm/8in slab 4mx3m (12x9ft) or two blocks 3mx1m (10x3)
and 0.8m deep (short of 3ft). And min 20cm distance to the edge.
And I've never heard of putting epoxy on this kind of anchor. There's special epoxy anchors for that.
The person who is really flummoxed is the clown who posted the video. He obviously cares nothing about safety, operating dangerous tools the way he does. Nor is his “repair” in any way adequate, starting with the fact that the concrete was way too wet to cure anywhere near the rated strength, and he didn’t bother to cover it with plastic sheeting to slow the curing. Terrifying.
QUESTION; would one of the lifts that connects with a cross member at the top have prevented this? I’m not trying to be a know it all, just considering installing one myself and figured the cross member at the top would stop all this side pressure? I’m also wondering if you could bolt a thick steel plate down first with extra holes where it bolts down presently? The plate should spread out the pressure per square foot. Now that I’m thinking about it, all the above but weld the larger plate on so the large plate bolts down and it bolts through the current holes too?
Jerry,
No a connection that the top would have hidden the problem but not resolved it. It was caused by my failure when used the epoxy and that didn't allow that the anchors to bite into the concrete.
@@honeybadgermotorworks7561Do you have a video update on this lift?
Why not "J" bolts in the concrete instead of wedge anchors?
I had the same problem in my shop with the 3 lifts installed by "professionals" when i bought them. All anchors where loose.
My repair was to tighten up the anchors to expose much of the bolt, then remove the nut and cut the anchor, then hammer the remaining bolt down until it went into the soil (how fast it went into the soild showed me my floor was only 4 inches thick)
Cleaned the holes with air and injected concrete epoxy untill started oozing out, installed new anchors and tight them cpl days later.
That worked for 10 more years lifting limos everyday.
When i sold the building and took the lifts off, i tried sledge hammer the anchors in and the would now move, i had to cut them off. Thats how hard the epoxy was.
Just my experience. Not a concrete expert.
Looks to me like the anchor bolts just failed or werent installed correctly. Theres no telling how many lifts have been installed on 4" slabs(3.5) that have held up
Guess he couldn’t decide between a 2 inch slump or an 8 inch 😆
I know your feeling. I have the Maxjax lift and it has the wedge anchors too. I don't like them at all. I couldn't get them to bite either in my 4 in concrete. I changed most of them out for the epoxy anchors and those are solid. I didn't have any issues after going the epoxy route.
Trusting cement without having X-ray vision is dicey. Mounting it on top of a large metal plate with 6 or 8 bolts
I manage large construction projects, the last one of these we did was for a 2.5t lift, the pads were over 1m deep by 1.5 wide!! Those small pads will not resist the rotational forces😢
I don't trust above groundd lifts..as u shown..in this video..I got an Rotary inground lift..used..air over oil. The oil tank is above ground..,so no EPA issues..it's going in my garage at home..it only needs 150psi from my air compressor.. open clean floor look. My dad had 5 lifts in his shop..never had issues in 45years he owned his station..
Your biggest problem is you cant put any anchors that close to the edge of the concrete, you need minimum 6 inch from the wall
24" minimum depth with 5\8" x12" J bolts would be the bare minimum i would trust.
You got it..... it has nothing to do with the lift , but everything to do with your foundation! Thank goodness you "caught it" . Don't forget to tie in the "pads" with some rebar to the existing surroundings / foundation.
Glad your safe , but dome anchors aren't ment to be hammerdrilled ,not saying you did. Some anchors need to be drilled ,the hammer drill wallows out and creates deceptive fitting anchors...
Garage slabs aren’t usually tied to the foundation so essentially he installed the right side lift post bolts on the edge of the slab. Big No No.
Not all concrete is created equal these things happen. If it was me I would have moved the lift more towards the center of the garage I couldn't do the things I do up close to that wall. You could also tie the tops of the posts with some square tubing and totally eliminate that problem.
A strong tie across the top would have save you all the hassle
Mine is exactly 26" from the wall. Garage looks to small for a lift?