Grand piano or Upright piano?

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  • Опубліковано 17 січ 2025

КОМЕНТАРІ • 181

  • @fitulus
    @fitulus 8 місяців тому +294

    It depends. There are uprights that are sounding way better then some cheap grand pianos.
    Am a pianist

    • @tonyli9249
      @tonyli9249 8 місяців тому +3

      That’s the point. Here what you hear is comparison between those two pieces of piano, what you ask to compare is two types of piano in which there are tens of thousands pianos. ???😮

    • @veroniquedeziel3300
      @veroniquedeziel3300 7 місяців тому +4

      Yeah like if you compare a 20000$ dollars bechstein upright with a approximatly same price grand made by pearl river in china

    • @fitulus
      @fitulus 7 місяців тому +7

      @@veroniquedeziel3300 Not necessarily. There are just grands that are not worth their price, then a brand that makes an upright that just happen to sound way more better. That's the way it is. It's not always about the money

    • @621jihoonkim
      @621jihoonkim 6 місяців тому

      @@fituluswhich upright piano do you recommend? I need to get one

    • @fitulus
      @fitulus 6 місяців тому

      ​@@621jihoonkim You need to go and try some upright piano's. I had for example grand piano's where if played Pianisimo, it sounded like MF which means MF and pianisimo didn't bring much diference.
      Then i tried an upright a Yamaha and i did the same thing and the difference was amazing. That means i could express my emotions better at the upright piano then on a steinway and sons grand piano. I have on my fb page these videos where i try petrof, steinway and sons, Kawai, etc..
      I try them at the conservatory that i attend.
      I also stumbled across a grand piano of steinway and sons where the keys were awfull,, you could feel and HEAR the plastic while playing. That means there's better plastic and worse plastic used by the brand.
      Best is ofcourse ivory key's,, i own a grand piano from 1912 made by IRMLER and nothing compares to it. Just go try some uprights and try to go after sound/dynamic feel.
      Choose a Yamaha and you'll be alright

  • @Genevieve8002
    @Genevieve8002 Рік тому +288

    Been learning to play the piano for nearly a year now. Both sounded beautiful to me, though for me the grand piano had more fullness and richness in it’s sound. In terms of the reality of my life though, a grand piano is not a consideration based on space and cost. Therefore a nice upright would do in my home. Got to know life’s limitations!😊

    • @broskitoski7320
      @broskitoski7320 10 місяців тому

      same man

    • @tonyli9249
      @tonyli9249 8 місяців тому +1

      I know in general which is supposed to be better. But here what you hear is comparison between those two pieces of piano, what you ask to compare is two types of piano in which there are tens of thousands pianos. ???😮

  • @char_rios
    @char_rios Рік тому +467

    The Grand Piano sounds much much more majestuous, such a body on that sound

    • @itsdarito
      @itsdarito Рік тому +8

      did you mean majestic?😂

    • @WolframtheBlessed3499
      @WolframtheBlessed3499 Рік тому +2

      ​@@itsdarito thank you Grammer Patrol 🚓 ,your input added SO much to her verbal interpretation of two acoustic stimuli; especially in the culturally-grammatic sloppiest language in the world.

    • @itsdarito
      @itsdarito Рік тому +4

      @@WolframtheBlessed3499 dear lord if you couldn't tell that it was a joke then i don't know what to say to you... if you needed someone to talk to you could've just said that, i know we all have our problems honey

    • @MeteCanKarahasan
      @MeteCanKarahasan 10 місяців тому +2

      The grand piano was blowing socks off the upright piano in volume.

    • @Prof.RafaelJunqueira
      @Prof.RafaelJunqueira 8 місяців тому +1

      You gain sound with Grand Piano, but you lost weight on first octaves without Upright. For example, play Man of Steel using Grand Piano (it's a distintic from movie), because the first Octave on Grand Piano is too loud comparison with origin.

  • @mihaidxn
    @mihaidxn 6 місяців тому +24

    The grand sounds grand, the upright sounds uptight. 😂

    • @imawindis1600
      @imawindis1600 4 місяці тому +3

      Yeah fr the uptight sounds like it’s strictly tuned and wants to be a grand but the grand sounds rich and doesn’t fuck around

    • @railfankerala
      @railfankerala 13 днів тому

      upRight is correct
      Not upTight😂

  • @Pietje900
    @Pietje900 7 місяців тому +86

    You didn't explain the difference, so I will.
    A grand piano has horizontal strings and a horizontal action with hammers moving upwards. This orientation is superior because gravity helps to put the hammer back in position after striking a key, which means a grand piano can repeat notes quicker. As the name suggests, a grand piano is typically larger, giving them a fuller sound
    An upright piano has verticle strings and a verticle action. It is a compromise made for space efficiency, but personally, I usually like the character of an upright piano more. I think a grand piano sounds too slick if that makes sense, and maybe too classical.
    The comparison in this video isn't very fair, though, because the upright piano is closed. You can get much more out of an upright piano by taking the panels off. Also, the character varies wildly. Two upright pianos can also sound completely different from each other, and so can two grand pianos... the video is pointless.
    Also, besides the sustain pedal, the other pedals typically have different functions on grand piano's vs. upright piano's, but this also varies within the same category.
    All with all grand piano's are superior and more professional, but with their own character, which isn't the most suitable for all genres.

    • @on-the-spot9467
      @on-the-spot9467 4 місяці тому

      Thank you so much

    • @niinakukkonen7728
      @niinakukkonen7728 3 місяці тому

      I had played both, but I liked to play more uprights. Its easier somehow.

    • @Pietje900
      @Pietje900 3 місяці тому +1

      @@niinakukkonen7728 in my experience grand piano are generally more sporty, brighter, more intense, quicker, less meditative... I always feel like I'm in a rush playing a grand piano. I also think that this is the reason why classical music is so fast and why more relaxing neoclassical pieces are performed on upright pianos. Personally I play on an upright Schimmel because I prefer everything about it. It has a nice deep and very relaxing sound.
      I think which one is easier just depends on what you're used to.

  • @TheFlyingFriedChickenGreasy
    @TheFlyingFriedChickenGreasy 7 місяців тому +32

    The name of the song is
    helen's piano - peace p.2

  • @Gruuvin1
    @Gruuvin1 Рік тому +118

    Upright, with the case open.

  • @ElusivG
    @ElusivG 7 місяців тому +5

    As a teenage piano player(a tiny bit under 3 years of experience). That was absolutely mesmerising.

  • @komoru
    @komoru Рік тому +108

    You should mention what piece you're playing?Of course, if the space (and budget) allows, nothing beats a grand piano. However, the upright will suit a small space or apartment setting just fine until you really need to use the double escapement that a grand provides

    • @antoniohunter2072
      @antoniohunter2072 Рік тому +1

      Love the explanation! Perfect.

    • @tonyli9249
      @tonyli9249 8 місяців тому

      I know in general which is supposed to be better. But here what you hear is comparison between those two pieces of piano, what you are asked to compare is two types of piano in which there are tens of thousands pianos. ???😮

    • @moauthor6466
      @moauthor6466 28 днів тому +1

      NINE FOOT GRAND SUPREMACY (this is just my opinion don't take it to heart) Okay but seriously I once played on a nine-foot grand in a chapel and OH MY GOSH it felt so powerful

  • @dino_rsl
    @dino_rsl 7 місяців тому +12

    la différence c'est mécanisme, et à partir d'un certain niveau ca change absolument tout

  • @chrisbonen6933
    @chrisbonen6933 Рік тому +5

    Beautiful song

  • @RealTalkOttawa
    @RealTalkOttawa Місяць тому +1

    They both made me cry fo no apparent reason 😂

  • @kinkoshinkai
    @kinkoshinkai Рік тому +11

    Open the lid on the upright or close the grand lid for a more fair comparison.

    • @theadventureinsider
      @theadventureinsider Рік тому

      Upright sounds worse with the lid open. Very blocky

    • @theadventureinsider
      @theadventureinsider Рік тому +2

      Also, she's playing two different brands which makes it an unfair comparison

    • @mtsugarcan
      @mtsugarcan Місяць тому

      @@theadventureinsiderThis is not true. Please find some professional recording video of the upright piano. They always open it.

  • @curiouscurious6558
    @curiouscurious6558 Рік тому +5

    String length, unless one gets a 5ft 7 or larger grand, the string length of one of the tallest uprights would provide almost the same string length, Uprights obviously take up less room, and really need to be against a wall and will utilize the room as a speaker. A big differerence not mentioned much is that the action in a ground is up and down so gravity naturally pulls the notes down and back into place after being played, Uprights the action is sideways so gravity cannot help. Bass notes on a grand seem to usually have more fullness and maturity.

    • @KevinCovington5453
      @KevinCovington5453 11 місяців тому

      we ae the only two people that are informed - including the one that made the video.

  • @nikred280
    @nikred280 9 місяців тому +2

    No different as long pro pianist like u play made both sound beautiful unlike beginner like me

  • @jakesarmwrestlinguniverse9792
    @jakesarmwrestlinguniverse9792 Рік тому +7

    I prefer the upright

  • @actie-reactie
    @actie-reactie 8 місяців тому +3

    Upright piano sounds more like a saloon piano.... but standing free or against a wall also makes a difference.... but hearing this.....and compare it to some digital piano's.... the DP's are getting closer and closer

  • @RUCH_AND_BAYERN
    @RUCH_AND_BAYERN 6 місяців тому +1

    The problem with upright pianos is that they were invented for less space. Sound from grand pianos coming out from above and below. In upright only from one side.
    Also grand pianos have longer strings btw

  • @anoushachatterjee8627
    @anoushachatterjee8627 11 місяців тому +2

    Me staring at the Mona Lisa…

  • @Migfiney
    @Migfiney 7 місяців тому +1

    The grand piano is just a fancy piano, an upright piano is more of a house hold friendly piano with relatively the same quality.

  • @blazar1869
    @blazar1869 Рік тому +15

    Please tell the name of the song, its really good

    • @zee620
      @zee620 Рік тому +5

      helen’s piano - Peace pt 2

    • @blazar1869
      @blazar1869 Рік тому +1

      @@zee620 thx

  • @KevinCovington5453
    @KevinCovington5453 11 місяців тому +8

    The "upright" piano that has a back that tall is the same string length of a 5' 2: BABY grand piano. The GRAND piano you play on this video looks like a 72" grand piano. 52" is as long/tall as an upright-grand gets. They are considered UPRIGHT BABY GRANDS

    • @Jellybellycat
      @Jellybellycat 3 місяці тому

      Yes. I would like to have heard the difference between a used older upright and a used quality grand.

  • @astral4227
    @astral4227 Рік тому +2

    R
    Brooo i rlly like your hands positioning

  • @NEJJJJJ-t4x
    @NEJJJJJ-t4x Рік тому +1

    The Grand piano sounds like it has lighter sound whilst the upright has darker sound

  • @fernando9175
    @fernando9175 7 місяців тому +1

    Difference: Sound Brightness and speed of keys.

  • @SandeepSharma-ir1cr
    @SandeepSharma-ir1cr 10 місяців тому +1

    Wow ❤❤

  • @hastensavoir7782
    @hastensavoir7782 7 місяців тому +2

    1. What piece were you playing?
    2. What is the Brand of the Grand Piano?

  • @gabrielvinicius3443
    @gabrielvinicius3443 Рік тому +2

    Upright piano.

  • @mrdanny5913
    @mrdanny5913 18 днів тому

    Grand piano has that sticking out thing

  • @David-e1b3t
    @David-e1b3t 2 місяці тому

    If you didn't have the space, I guess you could muddle thru life with an awesome upright :)

  • @mandrael
    @mandrael 3 місяці тому

    Open both of them and it will be a fair comparison.

  • @MattAshe
    @MattAshe 6 місяців тому +1

    80% of the time, I'd say the grand piano sounds better.
    But they have different sounds. There are times where the upright would fit the desired sound better.

  • @rarsenio1
    @rarsenio1 Рік тому +3

    Better Base I. The Grand Piano!

  • @L110508
    @L110508 Рік тому +9

    I'm not a piano guy, just got into this channel because looking for a piano for my 7 years old. IMO, they both sounded the same. LOL.

    • @SherwoodPhoenix
      @SherwoodPhoenix  Рік тому +9

      Hi, thank you very much for your comment. I do agree with you. Unfortunately it sounds very different in reality and phone microphone can not catch the real acoustic. We try to make good comparison videos with a professional mic and cameras to get the most realistic sound of the piano, but this video is not the best example of that.. Thank you again for your comment, hopefully you will find a great piano for your daughter and if you need any advices, you are always welcome to ask.
      All the best, Helen

    • @ahhhsothisishowyouchangean162
      @ahhhsothisishowyouchangean162 Рік тому +5

      It is hard to hear from the recording but the difference is actually massive, although doesn’t really matter if you get used to one though. I was lucky enough to play my friend’s Steinway and it is just majestic beyond my comprehension comparing to my upright, but like the first few days I felt bad with my upright when I was practicing but after a while it doesn’t matter. All that matters is the key actions+the skills you can develop from it!

    • @smoothsavage2870
      @smoothsavage2870 Рік тому +2

      I'm not sure it'll make much more of a difference if you yourself cant hear it, but you can hear the dynamics better with the grand piano. Things like the nuances of volume are heard better on the grand than the upright one. But to your average listener, the difference is barely heard.

    • @Toydota
      @Toydota 10 місяців тому

      Grands usually have a better action

  • @Kurokaze68
    @Kurokaze68 11 місяців тому +1

    Is there a sheet music for the song you were playing?

  • @thebig12conference73
    @thebig12conference73 Рік тому +3

    I’m a classical pianist and I can pretty much play any composition let me break it down for you let’s say you are living in a flat or an apartment and you don’t have the space for a grand piano then I would recommend getting an upright.
    If you live in a house like me and have the room well, the Grand. I currently have a digital Yamaha 745 worth $4000. I am going to trade it in for a U1 and pay $3000. Then I will trade the U1 for a GB1K Baby Grand Piano, priced at $13,500 for teachers, $15,000 for everybody else. A 5" acoustic baby grand piano is a great alternative because a 6foot Yamaha C1 could set you back 20,000-25,000. Most people can afford about 13,000 for a piano but not 25,000, that is the price of a new car like a Toyota Camry. Musical instruments aren't cheap. You want to go though a licensed Yamaha dealer so they will honor a trade. Don't go to a mom and pop who is not licensed because once you get your piano. you are stuck with it. That is why my go to store is Las Vegas Pianos.

    • @KevinCovington5453
      @KevinCovington5453 11 місяців тому

      string length - period

    • @niinakukkonen7728
      @niinakukkonen7728 3 місяці тому

      Yamaha B1 is about 3500, and its little power packet, fits every living room.

    • @thebig12conference73
      @thebig12conference73 3 місяці тому

      @@niinakukkonen7728 That is not bad but I want to switch to Acoustic. I will first get the U1 for $7,000 than the GB1K. If I ever want to go back to Digital, I would get the Yamaha Clavinova 795 GP they are about $10,000. The B1 is a solid piano but I like the Yamaha 745 Clavinova.

    • @niinakukkonen7728
      @niinakukkonen7728 3 місяці тому +1

      @@thebig12conference73 It IS a acoustic piano, all the way, it have the same stuff inside as U-series, same quality of soundboard, only difference is , it is smaller. But quality is pure Yamaha.

    • @thebig12conference73
      @thebig12conference73 3 місяці тому

      @@niinakukkonen7728 oh well if it’s the same quality as that you want then go for it. U1’s are expensive

  • @wayway4395
    @wayway4395 9 місяців тому +1

    I think the lower keys of the grand piano are more distinctive sound compared to the upright

  • @theunicyclist35
    @theunicyclist35 7 місяців тому +1

    The grand piano sounds more grand

  • @rf1313
    @rf1313 Місяць тому

    Anyone know the pieces she's playing?

  • @olivertheolive1208
    @olivertheolive1208 6 місяців тому

    The upright piano sounds more intimate.

  • @keithfisher83
    @keithfisher83 4 місяці тому

    The grand has a more fuller sound. Tone quality is better than the upright. Also it depends on the size of the piano/soundboard.
    A huge upright will sound better than a baby grand

  • @АлександрДаньков-х2ь

    Music name?

  • @chrismarini6359
    @chrismarini6359 Місяць тому

    Why not trying with the upright piano opened?

  • @johnnybejazz6815
    @johnnybejazz6815 6 місяців тому

    I thought the 2 pianos souded about the same.

  • @Akriskal
    @Akriskal 7 місяців тому

    Le seul principe d'inertie fait que le piano à queue est meilleur que le piano droit sur son aspect mécanique. Quand on veut aller plus loin dans son apprentissage du piano cela devient nécessaire surtout si on est ensuite amené à jouer dans des salles de concert, etc...

  • @FreonUWP
    @FreonUWP 8 місяців тому

    On my cell phone the upright sounds better. I'm curious how it would be with better speakers, and also if the recording set up was using decent microphones and stereo phonic sound placement.

    • @tonyli9249
      @tonyli9249 8 місяців тому

      What you hear is comparison between those two pieces, but what you are told to compare is two type of pianos in which there are tens of thousands pianos. ???😮

  • @baldwincobb
    @baldwincobb День тому

    What song is this?

  • @Jellybellycat
    @Jellybellycat 3 місяці тому

    Well, most of us have the choice of a used crappy upright so we would like to know the difference between a used crappy one and a used nice grand

  • @mtsugarcan
    @mtsugarcan Місяць тому +1

    Why do you compare with an opened grand piano and a close upright? It’s not fair.

    • @SherwoodPhoenix
      @SherwoodPhoenix  Місяць тому

      @@mtsugarcan what’s the point of comparing if there’s nothing to compare? Are you saying we should do videos comparing 2 identical pianos? If that’s what you are requesting, we will do it for you 👍 🎹 🎹

  • @leofromthe9159
    @leofromthe9159 Рік тому +3

    name of song?

  • @thepeppes92
    @thepeppes92 Рік тому +1

    always the grand piano

  • @かちゅぶしburt34
    @かちゅぶしburt34 3 місяці тому

    Cost and space.

  • @saufiwahid2506
    @saufiwahid2506 Рік тому

    Close your eyes and make judgement

  • @mariusbroucke6233
    @mariusbroucke6233 3 місяці тому

    Cant compare a fully open grand versus a total clossed upright! Also the room acoustic is different

  • @torifantastick
    @torifantastick 5 місяців тому

    I prefer a Bôsendorfer Imperial over ANY piano

  • @escapetoparadise2226
    @escapetoparadise2226 11 місяців тому

    What song is that???😮

  • @playtime3yt
    @playtime3yt 10 місяців тому

    Am I the only one who noticed that this grand piano has a bit lower pitch than the upright?

  • @pete2070
    @pete2070 7 місяців тому +1

    Size.

  • @jase1568
    @jase1568 Рік тому +8

    What song is this? It’s so beautiful

    • @tomcollett1893
      @tomcollett1893 Рік тому +3

      I'm pretty sure this is an instrumental cover of a pop/rock song of some sort, it does sound strangely familiar. Not a song I hear very often though, I don't think. Edit: It has a bit of a resemblance to "Heart in Danger" from Southern Sons, which is probably why it sounds vaguely familiar. Not that it is, though.

    • @SherwoodPhoenix
      @SherwoodPhoenix  Рік тому +4

      helen’s piano - peace p.2

    • @philip_arvind
      @philip_arvind 9 місяців тому

      @@SherwoodPhoenix do you have sheet music for it? Or did you learn it to play by ear? I have been to her insta page, but can't find any sheets for this beautiful piece of music :(

  • @TheFlyingFriedChickenGreasy
    @TheFlyingFriedChickenGreasy 7 місяців тому

    What is the song?

  • @ryanpennington3523
    @ryanpennington3523 6 місяців тому

    The upright is brighter. The grand has better richness and more complex sound articulated

  • @daleyvert
    @daleyvert Рік тому

    please can you tell us what is the name of the piece? so beautiful

  • @David-R.
    @David-R. 11 місяців тому +1

    I like them both to be honest. However the upright you were playing had a long board. Most upright pianos won't sound that good.

  • @sushi_ballads
    @sushi_ballads Рік тому

    sheet music plssss

  • @wrencherom5813
    @wrencherom5813 Рік тому +1

    What was the brand of the grand piano

    • @MattJ-n8n
      @MattJ-n8n 10 місяців тому

      Feurich 218

  • @slimtimm1
    @slimtimm1 3 місяці тому

    Big different

  • @tippidink
    @tippidink 4 місяці тому

    is that my favorite bee girl?

  • @MustangDesudiroz
    @MustangDesudiroz Місяць тому

    they are worded differently

  • @vangmx
    @vangmx Рік тому

    Grand pianos if you have the budget and space. An upright is still good as an alternative. Of course, sound is fuller on a grand and most of the time, keyboard action plays better on grand pianos dude to the design limitation of uprights. Still, an upright is hands down still better than some of the best digital pianos.

  • @cootumrebel
    @cootumrebel 3 місяці тому

    In this video, I detected no difference in the sound between the two pianos.

  • @williamlabarre4755
    @williamlabarre4755 5 місяців тому

    Open the top of the upright and we will see

  • @joonjeong4878
    @joonjeong4878 Рік тому +3

    Just remember that the grand is Feurich 218cm. It requires huge space and a lot of money. Everyone knows Ferrari is better than Toyota Corolla.

  • @m.s.b.1390
    @m.s.b.1390 9 місяців тому

    Ein Klavier von Blüthner Modell 145 oder Steingräber und Söhne 138 sind klanglich teilweise besser als Flügel mit 1,80 Meter.

  • @ArielAnecito
    @ArielAnecito 2 місяці тому

    Dumb Me Thinking The Real Difference Is The Size And Design 🎉

  • @Venice_Official
    @Venice_Official Місяць тому

    I pick the grand piano since I’m a 8 year old pianist

  • @zee620
    @zee620 Рік тому

    tutorial please

  • @SuperVinccent
    @SuperVinccent 4 місяці тому

    Grand has more depth
    Upright more calm

  • @the_green_snake4187
    @the_green_snake4187 Рік тому

    song name?

  • @hugokubarth9316
    @hugokubarth9316 10 місяців тому

    Your Yamaha sounds great, your grand sounds like a cheap upright

  • @bdeugau
    @bdeugau 17 днів тому

    i dont think it was a fair comparison with the grand open and the upright closed

  • @LiquidTurbo
    @LiquidTurbo 10 місяців тому

    The biggest difference? The price.

  • @elremaster455
    @elremaster455 Рік тому +2

    Which song are you playing?

    • @SherwoodPhoenix
      @SherwoodPhoenix  Рік тому

      helen’s piano - peace p.2

    • @elremaster455
      @elremaster455 Рік тому

      @@SherwoodPhoenix where did you get the piano's sheet! Because i really searched it but never find it

  • @daleyvert
    @daleyvert Рік тому

    what Is the name of the song

  • @Reflect-s9n
    @Reflect-s9n 2 місяці тому

    Am I the only one who likes the upright one better than the grand one?

  • @Ventiis_Boredom
    @Ventiis_Boredom Рік тому

    İ thought u gonna play fnaf when i heard the first 1 sec

  • @gary100dm
    @gary100dm 9 місяців тому

    But it's not an grand upright. A grand upright is much taller.

    • @keys6
      @keys6 9 місяців тому

      A grand piano and an upright piano.

  • @gwenacma4654
    @gwenacma4654 Рік тому

    I think grand piano has more tonal quality in dynamic range than uprights..

  • @user-kx1mx6er4b
    @user-kx1mx6er4b 9 місяців тому

    For me the notes sound less distinguishable on the grand piano bc they're...blurred? I was able to hear individual notes on the upright more clearly, maybe because the sound is more contained. Is the grand piano meant to sound very echo-y?

  • @tolgaucar-gl1vm
    @tolgaucar-gl1vm 5 місяців тому

    I don’t understand why you don’t explain the difference what’s the logic

  • @ANARCHY_13
    @ANARCHY_13 10 місяців тому

    PRICE

  • @arturolugo-rodriguez3818
    @arturolugo-rodriguez3818 6 місяців тому

    What is she playing guys

  • @juanmorales09
    @juanmorales09 Рік тому

    What brand is the grand piano?

  • @raquelhuerta2062
    @raquelhuerta2062 Рік тому

    I don’t want to listen I want to know

  • @colinmaharaj
    @colinmaharaj 6 місяців тому

    Very little

  • @DancingCarrs
    @DancingCarrs 7 місяців тому

    So nothing basically

  • @michaellhoangg2531
    @michaellhoangg2531 Рік тому +4

    She looks like she practices 40 hours a day

  • @randomkidbelkke12
    @randomkidbelkke12 Рік тому

    I don’t see difference

  • @RoyHoy
    @RoyHoy 3 місяці тому

    I heard no difference

  • @Augiedavis
    @Augiedavis 7 місяців тому

    Both pianos have flat personalities.

  • @salbertron
    @salbertron Рік тому

    There is no difference.