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The BEST Backfill Method for Concrete Pavers (Open Grade Base)
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- Опубліковано 16 сер 2024
- Are you interested in learning how to install a concrete paver tee pad for your own or someone else's disc golf course? Well, this video will take you through everything you need to know for preparing the base and leveling of the bedding material so that you will be ready to lay the pavers.
The course we are working at is called (Webster Fish & Game). It is located in (Webster, Massachusetts). If you live close to the area, I totally recommend it. You will not be disappointed!
To watch Ben and I play a round here, click this link right here 👉 • Playing a Little Known...
Feel free to leave a comment if you have any questions. Any feedback is more than welcome in the comments as well, Enjoy the video!
Check out all the videos from this project by clicking this link right here 👉 • Webster Fish & Game Di...
#pavers #concrete #paverpatio #hardscaping #landscaping #excavation #landscapeconstruction
00:00 Where are we? What are we doing?
01:08 Setting up the excavation
03:17 Excavation
11:07 Backfilling
17:33 Screeding
25:20 Final thoughts / advice
I am an architect and was detailing the paving for my projects. But when it came to my personal yard to be paved I have watched all your videos before allowing a contractor to start the job. I have made them to watch you to learn and pass an exam on your videos! GOD bless you!
These are the NICEST tee pads I’ve ever seen.
Thanks! I was pumped to put my skills to a tee pad install! The sport needs more like this… ✌🏻
Dude, that’s amazing and I always wanted to know how to play disk golf too. I love doing pavers myself. Thanks for all the tips.
Thank you, we love playing disc golf! Super relaxing, most courses are peaceful and lets you get away from the world and chill in the woods. Almost as relaxing as installing pavers to me...LOL ✌
This video answered questions I didn't even realize I had...or needed to have... And you're in my backyard...so I know this will work here in Foxboro.
Glad to hear it, thanks for the feedback! This method is excellent for Massachusetts ✌
Thank you for doing these videos. The level of detail you provide is great and necessary if someone wants to DIY their own paver project.
You are very welcome, I really enjoy making these videos and I'm glad they are helpful. Thanks for the feedback, I appreciate it! ✌
Awesome! I have been doing patios the traditional way with 3/4" process and sand bedding, none have moved at all here in Connecticut (praise God) but from now on i will definitely be doing them this way. I have a rather large patio coming up and i will be doing it this way. Thanks for the video! God bless!
Nice, I used the traditional method of dense grade and sand for about 5 years before switching to this method. I am not saying the traditional method is bad, I just truly believe that this method is far better.... When I tried it for the first time in 2019, I haven't looked back.... Good luck on the patio job, I would love to hear what you think about this method after you try it. God Bless! ✌
I 'm living in Ontario Canada, I really like your video. I learn a lot. thank you!
Nice, glad to hear it! ✌
Hi I love your videos I’m Brazilian the name of the tool is enxada and your pronounced it right we use this tool a lot in Brazil.
Oh sweet, thank you! Those tools are incredible. I was introduced to them when I worked with a few Brazilian crews about 8 years ago. I always make sure I have at least 2 around… ✌🏻
Wow that pad was amazing! Not to mention thats an awesome first hole. Great video, its and so cool you guys play.
Thanks brother, We love disc golf! I was pumped to be able to put in a tee pad. ✌
Thanks for the videos,you really explain it very well.thank God and all your work team many blessings
No problem at all, glad they are helpful! Thanks for the support, God Bless ✌
Enjoy the video everyone! If you want to see Ben and I play a round at this course, click this link right here 👉ua-cam.com/video/tu_zceuVoPk/v-deo.html
Hello from Romania😁.
Thank you so much for these instructive videos and for your time invested in making them.
Could you plese link me to a video doing the base prep for a driveway? I want to pave like 300 sq feed for a driveway, my neighbors advice me to pour concrete first and then lay 1.5-2 inch of small gravel and then the pavers, otherwise, if not having concrete as the main base, it will be lumps and humps everywhere 😀. I do find your method very good, but i did not find any instructions on how to prep the driveway. Thank you
Hello! So I would not recommend concrete under the base at all... That does not work good and will be very expensive and time consuming. I would use this same method but with a few additional steps. So I would dig a minimum of 12 inches up to 15 inches, Then you backfill, compact the stone every 3-4 inches to make sure it is very strong. And on top of those 3-4 inch lifts, lay out (geo grid) and backfill over that. The geo grid will help stabilize the stone and prevent the pavers from sinking with vehicular traffic. Then the final thing that is very important would be to buy pavers that are a minimum of 3 inches. Regular pavers are 2-3/8 inches thick and they are meant for foot traffic only applications. For driveways, you need 3 inch pavers. Most manufacturers sell them as an option, you will just have to do some research for what's available in your area. But definitely use this method. The 3/4 clear stone will allow water to drain freely and keep your pavers in excellent shape for decades. ✌
Awesome vid. I thought woven geotextile was not permeable, but instead get “non-woven” which is permeable. Sounds like you prefer the woven?
Thanks, a lot of people say woven does not drain well. Problem is they don't have any experience with it...LOL. I have used this fabric under hundreds of installs now with zero call backs due to lack of drainage. The key is to cover the subsoil with a thin layer of stone and compacting that before the fabric like I did in this video. Then the fabric is between 2 layers of sharp edged stones which helps open the woven strips of plastic to allow water through. Non Woven fabrics break down easier and allow fine particles to migrate slowly into the base stone over the years. It also does not stabilize as well. The Woven fabric is strong and helps stabilize the stone and helps prevent sinking in the future.
Nice to find someone who likes to do the job properly instead of the many cowboys who want to do the job quickly. Pity your not based in the UK near me.
Thank you for noticing, There are a lot of guys who think speed is more important... I am not one of them. This type of work without quality is just a waste of time and money in my opinion. ✌
18:50 slope discussion
Hello boss, I have watched, I think, all your videos and I would like to know how you level and make the slope on the 3/4" base layer. I fully understand how you make the slope on the bedding layer... but how do you do on the 3/4" stone layer? Thanks again for all your videos!!!
Hey brother, I use my screed rails to get the stone to the right slope. Here is a video link where I explain that method 👉ua-cam.com/video/6vxleA728qw/v-deo.html
Thanks for this video, about to install some pavers at my house and was concerned about frost heaving.
My pleasure, good luck!
Great vid again bro keep the content coming you’re going somewhere with this on UA-cam !
Thank a lot man, I appreciate the support and I'm glad you are enjoying the videos! ✌
Such an informative video. Thank you from Lithuania!
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for the feedback!
Love your videos guys. Very helpful and well explained. Guess I’m a fan now. Keep it up!
Glad to hear it, thank you!
Thanks for the info! Here in Michigan its called #9 chip stone or as one supplier here calls it #9 Ohio stone, must be a buckeyes fan lol. New sub, thanks again.
😂 nice! Thanks for the support ✌🏻
Great content as always.
Glad you enjoyed it ✌
Great video boys.👍🏻🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
Thanks 👍
Thank you!!
I live in Baltimore Maryland and I contact my local landscape company for materials and they asked me what I was planning on doing, I explained this method to them and they pretty much told me that this is the wrong method. I’ve been following your content for a few months now and have learned a lot but they made me feel stupid when I explained this exact method.
I'm really sorry to hear that. It blows my mind how little so called (Professionals) know about this perp method. Some guys just can't learn new tricks. This method is becoming extremely popular in the hardscape trade and most paver manufacturers are recommending it over the traditional methods. Here is a video from a very popular paver manufacturer who has been pushing contractors to switch to this technique for over 4 years now 👉ua-cam.com/video/XPj5TgRvgIc/v-deo.html
Don't worry about those that don't understand this method, trust me, this is the best way to go. ✌
@@TheChristianHardscaper No disrespect but, these other guys that know have been doing this stuff way longer than you. Im sure they tried different methods as well. I too question your thoughts on water permablity. The softest, easiest draining soil is the topsoil. The farther down the more dense(slower draining), the soil is.. Now you go down 10inches, or however deep, and run your equipment over it ,semi packing it , Then you compact 1-1.5 inches of stone down into that, making it harder yet!. But you claim that it " opens it up" somehow?? Pounding stone into it solidifies it more. Then you put on the slowest draining(woven) fabric on top? Sure the loose stone just under the pavers drain down faster, but then slows down much more at the base, because of all the stuff you did, caused it to do so.
My thoughts , to test ,are that if you dug 2, 12' wide holes the same depth, and semi packed one at the bottom, then pounded 3/4 stone down into that,, and then lay woven plastic over it. Now, put just a piece of unwoven fabric in the other. Now pour a gallon or 2 of water in each, and see which one drains the fastest. My moneys on the one without your treatment.
@@TheChristianHardscaperi had a similar experience. they told me sand is better and easier bedding material. i said thanks but what’s the price of 3/8 or quarter clean. they said they don’t sell it. went to another mason supply and they laughed at their competition lying to my face to cover the fact that they don’t carry what i wanted.
Comments be crazy!
curious how to replace concrete with pavers for an in ground pool
Beautiful!
Thanks!
Is that an 8 foot level you used for this project? Thanks for making this video!
That is a 6ft level in this video but I also use an 8ft screed level on bigger projects. Glad you liked the video ✌
Same method for putting pavers around in ground pool?
Absolutely, this method is excellent for pool patios
If i will use polymeric sand on top of my pavers is 3/4 blend a better base than clean stone?
I use polymeric sand on all my projects, works just fine with clean stone base. Some would have you believe it migrates through the clean stone and fails but it is simply not true. You just need to make sure you install the polymeric sand correctly.
Here is a video I made on how to install the polymeric sand 👉ua-cam.com/video/TXWJyBnVQ_g/v-deo.html
Can you put pavers over a French drain?
You certainly can. That is basically what this base prep method is. Sometimes we have to include a drainage pipe if the water needs to be diverted somewhere else, which pretty much turns it into a French drain.. LOL ✌
Hey brother sorry I’m a bit confused. I thought I saw in a previous video that you did not compact the soil first rather you placed a layer of stone on top of the loose soil and then compacted? Mentioned something about drainage.
I'm not sure what you mean, I always spread a thin layer of stone of the sub soil and compact before the fabric. Did you see a video where I did not do that?
@@TheChristianHardscaper Sorry I think I’m just confused. My question is you do compact the sub soil, spread the layer of stone tamp again and then put fabric?
@@brianyac1968 No problem at all. When I first started using this method I would compact the soil and the thin layer. After a few projects like that, I found that it is better to spread the thin layer first and then compact it once. Seems to work better and it locks the stone into the soil better.
@@TheChristianHardscaper Awesome thanks brother!
Great video ✌
Thanks Man! ✌
Great video, I’m in central Florida and wondering if this method would be good here? Very sandy soil here.
Thank you, this method is excellent for any climate. Sandy soil is great to have under your pavers, you will never have any water issues under them. So yes, it sure is ✌
Great video! When you mentioned you excavate an extra 8 inches is that 8 inches on all sides ? Or 4 inches on each side to equal 8?
Thank you! We do 8 inches on all sides. That really helps prevent the edges from sinking or shifting. ✌
Thanks for the reply, I am in the process of starting my own contracts this year, I like how you always go into depth on each process I am learning a lot of new little tips and tricks. Also wanted to know if you will make some videos going into the paper side of this business, accounting, quoting, and marketing etc.
Keep up the great work !
Here in Maryland I think they call stone #8 is 1/4 of inch do you think will work well?
Yes sir, #8 stone is typically between 1/4" - 3/8" so that is right on the money 👌 ✌
Thank you. I appreciate it your help.
Another awesome job! I don’t usually see you compact your base other than you initial 1-2 inch base. Do you recommend compacting all of the base material on a patio or not? Thanks!
Thank you, we compact the initial base and we compact the top of the stone when we get to the height we need. ✌
hey Chris that looks amazing great job man, I was a little confused when you remeasured with the string and you figured you were a little off on both sides where you talking about a little of in terms excavating ? like need to dig a little more on the sides your measurements were off?
Thank you! When I measured, I realized that I needed to excavate both sides back a little further. If not, the pavers would have been right on the edge of the excavation. You want at least 6 inches of backfill material past the end of the pavers to help support them. The most common point of failure for any patio or walkway is the edges. So excavating and backfilling 6-8 inches past the edges is how you help prevent that. ✌🏻
This paver teepad looks great, nice work!
Just curious on the amount time spent to build and price of materials per teepad?
Thank you very much man! It's very cool to get a comment like this from a pro!
So with the sitting wall it took about 45 man hours to build. All the materials costed roughly $2750 (including the sitting wall). This pad was designed to be oversize for a signature hole 1, the rest will be more regular sized. Which to purchase materials and install just the pad costs roughly $3000-$3500. Not cheap and probably not feasible for most courses, but man it would be sweet to start seeing more of them around!
The sport is growing like crazy and the players deserve a higher standard of tee pads. Hopefully these how to videos I am making helps people who are starting their own courses or even just upgrading their existing pads. Too many paver tee pads are installed incorrectly... I do paver installations professionally and wanted to share my knowledge with the disc golf community. Thanks again for the comment! ✌
DIY guy here. Love your videos. Have a question. I’m doing a paver walkway and patio at my house. The walkway is going from my back deck to the middle of my back yard where the patio will be. I am at this stage where I’m trying to get 3/4 stone slope right before screeding. The natural slope of my yard is slightly steeper than an 1/8 pitch where the walkway will be (sloping down from the deck to the where the patio will be). And where the patio sits is just about ideal 1/8 pitch in same direction. Is it ok for the walkway to have a slightly steeper slope and gradually level out to ideal pitch as you get to the patio?
Hey there, you certainly can lay a walkway at more than an 1/8" slope. I have laid plenty of walkways where the bubble on the level was bottomed out... But sometimes laying the pavers to the grade is better than putting steps. ✌
great video, how many inches would you recommend to use for clean crushed stone after laying down geotextile fabric? and how many inches for chip stone to put down? and is this a method you would you recommend every paver jobs?
Thank you. Most projects only need 6-8 inches of base stone (including the bedding stone). On some occasions we do 8-12 inches of the soil is not the greatest for drainage. And yes, I recommend this base prep method for all paver installs no matter where you are from or what it’s for. ✌🏻
@@TheChristianHardscaper thank you…it is great to know and much appreciated for sharing .
No problem! ✌
The 3/4” crushed limestone that I’m gonna use is for ballast on an 7 1/2” inch gauge live steam railroad what do you recommend.
That will work just fine. Limestone is not as hard as granite, but plenty strong enough for foot traffic applications for sure.
How do you determine how much rock you need
I find the amount of (Cubic Yards) I need. To find that you need to find the square feet of the area 1st. Let's say you have 100 sq ft. The math you need to do is 100 x .5 (this represents 6 inches (1/2 ft)). So 100 x .5 = 50 (cubic feet). Now you need to divide 50 by 27 (1 Cubic yard = 27 cubic feet) and you get 1.85 cubic yards of base stone needed for 100 sq ft at 6 inches deep. You can apply this equation to any size or depth to find how many cubic yards of material you need. However with 3/4 clean stone has a very low compaction rate so you do not need to factor much volume loss after compaction. With road base gravel or fill, sand, etc... you need to factor more material because of compaction. Hope that helps ✌
Love your work!! Can 3/4 wash rocks that is not crushed be used also? Or do you only recommend 3/4 crushed?
The crushed works much better because it is angular and it locks together much better than rounded edges. So I would recommend the crushed if possible.
Enjoyed the video, as always.
Why did you compact the 3/4" gravel in this application, when I don't believe you have in other videos? ( maybe you have, and I just didn't notice) Is it because it was more than 6 inches deep?
Thank, John
Thanks John!
So with the 3/4 stone, I have mentioned that at 6 inches or less... compacting the top is optional. There is some back and forth between a lot of contractors in the trade about that step. Some argue that when you compact it, the stone does not interlock with the bedding stone as well, so they don't compact. ( remember that this is for 6 inches or less, if you backfill 6-8 inches, definitely compact the top layer. If you need 8+ inches. it needs to be spread out in 2 lifts and compacted, simply because of the depth.) The 3/4 stone comes 98% compacted up to 4-6 inches, Anything more than that, the compaction percentage gets lower...
On this application and a few others on my channel, I opted to compact the stone (there was about 7-8 inches in a few spots) But also, this tee pad will see a ton of foot traffic, people will be running up on it to throw their discs. So that's why I decided to do it on this application. ✌
@@TheChristianHardscaper
Thanks for the explanation!
@@laurapalumbo353 No problem!
@@TheChristianHardscaper So, if I level my intended patio area (I just finished putting up an almost level above ground intex pool only off a square and a half to give you an idea) and then finish with sand because my "soil" is compacted clay and evil, wet it because somehow it manages to settle itself in my yard with that, and then put the 3/4 stone over it at 4in within a 2 x 6 frame. Then put my pavers and pea gravel in between the pavers. Would that work?
Edited to add: I already have a 4in elevation built into the path of a few steps to the pool because there's a 12in wide x 4in deep border of rubber mulch to minimize erosion around the pool.
Great! Do you need to compact it again after filling HPB or just simply lay paver after that? Thanks.
Nope, just screed the HPB and lay the pavers right over it. Then you will compact the pavers into the HPB while polymeric sanding the joints. ✌
My area doesn't have 3/4 inch clean crushed rock for backfilling with an open graded base. Would 5/8 inch clean chips work?
Yes, 5/8" clean stone is just fine ✌
Thanks appreciate it and your videos. They're super helpful;
@@CKT808 My pleasure, glad they are helpful!
So you only compact 2 times correct? your light first level of clean (1) and then the final top of sub base (2) before screeding for bedding material.
Correct, The thin layer at the bottom will tighten up the sub-base like a charm. Then the fabric has a firm base to rest on. Then just dump and spread the clean / crushed stone. The stone is 98% compacted when spread out (up to about 6 inches or so) So compacting in one lift at 6 inches is all you need. If you have like 8 - 12 inches.... 2 lifts would be better, but you don't need more than that.
@@TheChristianHardscaper
Curious your thoughts on doing hardscape installs in the winter months, if the weather is mild? With an open grade base would there be less of a concern about frost or freezing and thawing affecting the installation process? Any reason to not attempt paver installs in the winter months, if it's a mild season?
Thanks, John✌️
What are your thoughts on brock panels that have drain holes, to place on top on the 3/4 rocks instead of the 3/8 crush rocks? thank you!
I really don't like or recommend brock panels or gator base panels. They don't allow enough water drainage and they also don't allow you to level off the pavers. All pavers, no matter the manufacturer can vary in height 1/8"-1/4". When laying on stone or even sand, you can hammer the high ones down / lift low ones up to make everything perfectly level. With the panels, you can't do that so you end up with an uneven patio / walkway.... Not a big fan. ✌
Hey does the centrifugal force of your compactor matter when compacting a 6 inch base like you are doing here or will any plate compactor do? Thanks!
For foot traffic applications, it is not a big deal. Most plate compactors will be just fine for that. But with driveways, it is more important because it needs to be compacted enough to hold the weight of cars / trucks
How do you keep roots from continuing to move under your base, especially in this environment where you’re surrounded by trees?
The fabric helps but you can't completely stop them honestly... But that is why we excavate 8 inches farther on each side and dig 10" deep. It would take years for the roots to start getting into the base stone, even then, it would take many more years for them to start impacting the pavers....
Hey man i live in Australia and its much warmer here, would the same principles apply considering its a colder climate there? Cheers
Yes, this method works excellent for an area like yours. It is perfect for any geography. 👌✌
Do you think 3/4" buff limestone would work in place for 3/4" crushed?
Definitely for foot traffic applications, not so sure about driveways...
@@TheChristianHardscaper would you recommend granite 3/4” over buff 3/4” even tho it’s about 50% more expensive?
@@nateraddatz6048 Not for patios and walkways, the limestone will support foot traffic no problem. Around here, granite is the main stone that comes very clean.
What if I add water or sand in the pvc pipe to screed?
Not sure what you mean?
Thanks for the great info Christian. Do you happen to know where we can get the chip stone for bedding in Boston, or South Shore areas? I have gone to TLC, and South Shore landscape supply and none of them have that chip stone. South shore landscape supply in Rockland, Ma, has 3/8” blue crushed stone, and 3/8” crushed stone. Will those work? Bcuase I was thinking the 3/8” blue crushed stone would be comparable. Thanks
My pleasure! I don't know any material providers out that way... But yes, 3/8" crushed blue stone will work just fine. A little tougher to screed than 1/4" but it will still work. ✌
Does this backfill method work with Travertine pavers as well? Or do you have to have concrete base for those? I'm in NY, so similar weather as MA. Thank you!
It most certainly does. And it works great because it allows any water to drain freely and keep the travertine dry. 👌
Awesome. Do you think it’s ok if I use 2” screed pipes instead of 1”? I need a little extra height on my patio (after doing the 3/4” chip base) but I’m not sure if the extra 3/8” chip screed height will cause instability or not. I’m using 24x24 porcelain pavers
I always recommend 1-1.5 inches at most of chip stone, just make up the difference in height with a small layer of 3/4 stone
You dont compact or even hand tamp the top layer?
Nope, the bedding stone does not need to be compacted. After the pavers are laid, we hammer / tamp the pavers into the bedding stone which compacts it then. Hard to explain why, but if you ever try to tamp this material (at 1 inch thick) you will realize why it is not important... It barely compacts, and when you screed it, the stones loosen up anyway. But that is also why it's important to only use 1 inch of it. ✌
Thanks for all the videos! Just wondering how you feel about using 1" recycled concrete as the gravel for the open grade base? Does it matter that the recycled concrete would have different particles in it of varying sizes?
I always say that you can use it, but the crushed stone will definitely hold up longer and allow water to drain better without a doubt. Depending on how dirty the recycled concrete is, it may cause a problem down the road.
Curious your thoughts on hardscape installation in the winter months, if it's trending towards a mild winter? Any concerns with attempting an install if a nice weather window presents itself? I would think with the open grade base there is less of a concern with frost or freeze/thaw than the traditional method, or am I missing something?
Thanks, John
I have nothing against installing in the winter as long as precautions are taken and the ground is not completely frozen. We actually did this project during the middle of December while the nights were below freezing. The main thing is to excavate and backfill in the same day. Then if it is going to freeze over night, cover it with (thermal blankets) those are tarps with insulation in the middle. If you don't want to buy those (they are expensive) cover it with as many tarps / insulating materials as possible. Then check it in the morning to make sure nothing froze and your good to go! It certainly makes things more difficult, but definitely possible. You will just have to wait until warmer weather for polymeric sand installation. ✌
@@TheChristianHardscaper
Thanks for the quick response!
Are you getting much snow up there in Massachusetts? We haven't dropped a plow blade yet this month. We're just outside of the Cleveland area.
@@laurapalumbo353 No problem, we are still waiting for winter here in Mass.... Getting pretty crazy really. Plow guys are hurting right now
@@TheChristianHardscaper
I bet. It'll come eventually!
We really enjoy your content. Keep up the good work, and I hope you have a good winter.✌️
@@laurapalumbo353 Yes it will 🤞
I'm glad you are enjoying the channel and thanks for all your consistent comments and feedback, I truly appreciate it! Enjoy your winter as well✌
Exactly how long do jobs like this generally take you?
That tee pad with the sitting wall took a little over a week
Do you install that type of base in clay soil ? We do it the old way but I am in montreal we get some harsh winters .
I certainly do, this method is excellent for clay soil types. It is like installing a dry well in your yard, it will only help with drainage, never make it worse. I am out of Massachusetts, we get many freeze / thaw cycles here with some stretches of very cold weather. This system works great here in every soil condition. ✌
@@TheChristianHardscaper For sandy soils do you think you can you get away with a thinner base?
Sure it is😂😂😂
👍
Whats a T Pad ?
It is where you start a hole in disc golf. Kind of like where regular golfers (Tee off). Same concept but for disc golf. You run up and throw your shot off it.
Hi is 1/8 stone good for bedding?
I have never seen such small clean stone... Are you talking about stone dust? If so, no. Don't use very small crushed stone that is mixed with dust... I usually use 1/4 inch - 3/8 inch (clean - no dust or sand in it) crushed stone for my bedding stone. It needs to be clean, no fine particles
❤❤❤🙏🙏🙏
Doesn't woven underlayment not drain very well?
I have never had an issue, Been backfilling like this for over 4 years now. It seems to do very well. Especially once you cover it with 3/4 stone. The woven strips of plastic open just enough to let water through but not too much to allow the stone to shift. It is specifically designed for underlayment of hardscape installs. I use it under all of my projects. ✌