I am not sure about this as the buildings are always going to be inside on a layout and not getting soaked by rain? Isn't the only thing to worry about the light fading from windows? There is a triangle on each section where you can see fading which was there when you took the roofs off.
A very interesting test. I do agree with you in that the coated building must have been assembled with regular PVA. I do think though if every piece of card was protected on both sides including every edge using water resistent glue, it would fair considerably better. 🎉
Spray adhesive and superglue seem to hold up a bit better but still have problems if you don't coat both sides in varnish. I think spraying each piece of card on both sides though is going to add a fair amount of extra time to build already time consuming kits. Interestingly, the two card buildings I have minimal issues with after about a decade, are two scalescenes kits that I decided to superglue to the baseboard. They still have minor issues with the roof curling though. The summer here gets pretty humid, indoors even with air conditioning and dehumidifiers, it will sit around 50% and sometimes hit 60% on a really humid day.
@@Oorail I think it really does depend on your local climate, regarding the rate of deterioration, I have to fully protect all sides of any card models. Varnishing with acrylic varnish takes minutes and is dry in less than half an hour even on a cold day. My first incarnation of Piccadilly station was 90% card with acetate. After a year there was a noteable warping, in those days I didnt realise the warping effect. I rebuilt it predominatly 3d printing in PLA. That has proved to be perfect.
@@piccadillymodelrailways I typically use Testors Dullcote but it will remain sticky for at least an hour or two after applying it. 3D printing is definitely the way to go.
Local weather patterns and a damp environment will have a significant impact on card structures. In a previous house when I first started the layout, it was housed in a garage that was semi underground (built into a rising bank) and it was always damp, so card structures warped considerably. With the layout in our current home (in the garage, same city), the garage is located on a flat section and I have no dampness issues.
Hi Julian. I'm going to play Devil's advocate here. Truly scientific experiments are made having been very carefully designed. One premise is that you only have one or two unknowns to test, or there'll be too many factors that will affect the results. One problem with cutting the building in half is that you don't know how this will affect the structural integrity of the building and (obviously) this is not what you would normally do to buildings on your layout. The experiment was a nice idea, though.
Absolutely agree it's not a terribly scientific experiment, but fun none the less. I'd say the structural integrity will be pretty even between both structures since they came from the same single structure and sawing treatment.
I live in Florida, where the relative humidity is close to 100% year round. I have five 'dehumidifiers' in various rooms of my house (cost, around $100 US from Amazon), and I have to empty the collection tank on them at least weekly, so they are pulling several litres of moisture out of the air. One of the rooms is my future train room - I think keeping the humidity low would be good, not just for card kits, but the track, scenery, locos, electronics....
I get it you were doing life saving surgery for your station. Will be waiting to see the final result on the now 2 buildings outside. Actual weathering can be a cost saver, no need for weathering paints or powder , just good old South Island exposure which is free. Bill from California, USA
This is a cool test and its more accurate than you might be thinking. I've got some card and mdf kits on my layout that are about a decade or so old. Like most people, I've weathered and varnished the outside of them, but not the inside. Over time as the inside of the building absorbs moisture it starts to curl and bend from the inside. It seems to happen with the roofs more, probably because they are usually made from thinner card and near the ends of the buildings where you are likely to spray less varnish as you are preparing to stop spraying. I'm currently in the process of replacing every card and lasercut kit on my layout with plastic 3D printed ones.
Some years ago there was a layout in Railway Modeller Dawlish. The layout had some fire damage due to a house fire. The card building’s were relatively unaffected where has the plastic ones were a right off.
Totally agree. If the kit was sealed before it was assembled, I would expect it to last a lot longer, but this experiment is purely about any benefits there might be in sealing a card building after it have been assembled and how that compares to an unsealed building.
Interesting experiment Julian. Differential expansion? Maybe if you spray your buildings you need to give them a thorough coat sealing all joints. Personal observation. I'm in Aus, Qld with significant humidity. My buildings are not coated and are in the garage open to the heat and humidity and so far I can see no change in any of them after at least a year. They were second hand when I got them so these could be a lot older. I'd suggest outside where the rain can penetrate them is a significantly harsher environment obviously. Stay safe and happy modelling. Mon
Hi Julian, As someone who lives in a damp (humid) area - Cornwall, UK - I am particularly interested in this exercise. I always spray card buildings and structures to preserve them from uv (ours is on the high side too) and although I have not experienced any warping yet - my layout is in an unheated shed - I am begining to wonder if I need to varnish both sides of the card... Goodness knows how I would be able to do this, however...... All the best, Ken
Interesting experiment Julian, I think if you had done that back here in the UK at present the builds would have floated away given the amount of rain of late (lol). I was wondering if you had brushed the varnish on would it have soaked in more to reduce the whooping as the inside may have had the same amount of varnish applied (just a thought) regards Barry..🤕
As temperatures have hit 0 degrees here in West London, apart from having a roof, conditions in my garage are probably close to yours outside so am embarking on my annual “will the Metcalfe survive the winter” experiment! Thinking back to my years in the Print Industry, I would be amazed if as part of the printing process the kits weren’t given a varnish or sealant. This is different to a paint type varnish you have used so not a waterproofing but seals the printing and prevents marking and rubbing. Still would give some coating to the surface to both of you test buildings which may may explain why you are seeing less of a difference in the performance than you are expecting?
Don't know old mate, poor slate or a dodgy roofer perhaps? Can't help but think that perhaps the coating is retaining moisture within the card fiber as opposed to the uncoated, allowing more even evaporation/ drying and thus less warping. Time shall tell. Cheers
Hi Jules, a very interesting experiment. I guess if you could work out a way to spray both sides and thus effectively seal the card in a laminate of varnish 🤔 I suspect if you sprayed enough on the structure that it soaked through that could work, but then perhaps that runs the risk of creating bubbles or ripples 🤷♂️ Be interesting to see it all on another week 😉🍀👍🍻 BTW, what did you need up buying at Milton Keynes? More than you intended or were you well behaved? 😅
Hello professor Julian, the different tension from the varnish looks to be having an effect and once the glue fails this is allowing the uncoated side of the card to absorb more than I would guess is happening with the uncoated hence more swelling and bulging. It’s a theory at least 😉
I'm so glad to hear that the experiment was done with the buildings consent. LOL!! Interesting results.
An interesting experiment with some surprising results. Thanks for doing this Julian. Roy.
I am not sure about this as the buildings are always going to be inside on a layout and not getting soaked by rain? Isn't the only thing to worry about the light fading from windows? There is a triangle on each section where you can see fading which was there when you took the roofs off.
You're absolutely right, unless you've got a leaky roof. It's more about accelerating deterioration, otherwise the experiment might take 30+ years.
A very interesting test. I do agree with you in that the coated building must have been assembled with regular PVA. I do think though if every piece of card was protected on both sides including every edge using water resistent glue, it would fair considerably better. 🎉
Spray adhesive and superglue seem to hold up a bit better but still have problems if you don't coat both sides in varnish. I think spraying each piece of card on both sides though is going to add a fair amount of extra time to build already time consuming kits. Interestingly, the two card buildings I have minimal issues with after about a decade, are two scalescenes kits that I decided to superglue to the baseboard. They still have minor issues with the roof curling though. The summer here gets pretty humid, indoors even with air conditioning and dehumidifiers, it will sit around 50% and sometimes hit 60% on a really humid day.
@@Oorail I think it really does depend on your local climate, regarding the rate of deterioration, I have to fully protect all sides of any card models. Varnishing with acrylic varnish takes minutes and is dry in less than half an hour even on a cold day. My first incarnation of Piccadilly station was 90% card with acetate. After a year there was a noteable warping, in those days I didnt realise the warping effect. I rebuilt it predominatly 3d printing in PLA. That has proved to be perfect.
@@piccadillymodelrailways I typically use Testors Dullcote but it will remain sticky for at least an hour or two after applying it. 3D printing is definitely the way to go.
Local weather patterns and a damp environment will have a significant impact on card structures. In a previous house when I first started the layout, it was housed in a garage that was semi underground (built into a rising bank) and it was always damp, so card structures warped considerably. With the layout in our current home (in the garage, same city), the garage is located on a flat section and I have no dampness issues.
good vid thanks lee
Hi Julian. I'm going to play Devil's advocate here. Truly scientific experiments are made having been very carefully designed. One premise is that you only have one or two unknowns to test, or there'll be too many factors that will affect the results. One problem with cutting the building in half is that you don't know how this will affect the structural integrity of the building and (obviously) this is not what you would normally do to buildings on your layout. The experiment was a nice idea, though.
Absolutely agree it's not a terribly scientific experiment, but fun none the less. I'd say the structural integrity will be pretty even between both structures since they came from the same single structure and sawing treatment.
I live in Florida, where the relative humidity is close to 100% year round. I have five 'dehumidifiers' in various rooms of my house (cost, around $100 US from Amazon), and I have to empty the collection tank on them at least weekly, so they are pulling several litres of moisture out of the air. One of the rooms is my future train room - I think keeping the humidity low would be good, not just for card kits, but the track, scenery, locos, electronics....
I get it you were doing life saving surgery for your station. Will be waiting to see the final result on the now 2 buildings outside. Actual weathering can be a cost saver, no need for weathering paints or powder , just good old South Island exposure which is free. Bill from California, USA
This is a cool test and its more accurate than you might be thinking. I've got some card and mdf kits on my layout that are about a decade or so old. Like most people, I've weathered and varnished the outside of them, but not the inside. Over time as the inside of the building absorbs moisture it starts to curl and bend from the inside. It seems to happen with the roofs more, probably because they are usually made from thinner card and near the ends of the buildings where you are likely to spray less varnish as you are preparing to stop spraying. I'm currently in the process of replacing every card and lasercut kit on my layout with plastic 3D printed ones.
The other difference between the two buildings is that the uncoated side is starting to grow mildew, though it's very subtle.
Some years ago there was a layout in Railway Modeller Dawlish. The layout had some fire damage due to a house fire. The card building’s were relatively unaffected where has the plastic ones were a right off.
You need to coat the buildings on both sides, the same as you would do wood.
Totally agree. If the kit was sealed before it was assembled, I would expect it to last a lot longer, but this experiment is purely about any benefits there might be in sealing a card building after it have been assembled and how that compares to an unsealed building.
I wonder if moisture got trapped inside the coated building so it’s deteriorating from the inside?
Moisture will definitely be getting in on the inside, which I suspect is causing the curling.
Hace you not realized that maybe the sunlight has an shrinking effect on the chemical reaction on the spray used.
Could possibly be doing that. It's not an overly scientific experiment but there's no doubt several factors at play.
Interesting experiment Julian.
Differential expansion?
Maybe if you spray your buildings you need to give them a thorough coat sealing all joints.
Personal observation.
I'm in Aus, Qld with significant humidity.
My buildings are not coated and are in the garage open to the heat and humidity and so far I can see no change in any of them after at least a year. They were second hand when I got them so these could be a lot older.
I'd suggest outside where the rain can penetrate them is a significantly harsher environment obviously.
Stay safe and happy modelling.
Mon
Hi Julian,
As someone who lives in a damp (humid) area - Cornwall, UK - I am particularly interested in this exercise. I always spray card buildings and structures to preserve them from uv (ours is on the high side too) and although I have not experienced any warping yet - my layout is in an unheated shed - I am begining to wonder if I need to varnish both sides of the card... Goodness knows how I would be able to do this, however......
All the best,
Ken
Interesting experiment Julian, I think if you had done that back here in the UK at present the builds would have floated away given the amount of rain of late (lol). I was wondering if you had brushed the varnish on would it have soaked in more to reduce the whooping as the inside may have had the same amount of varnish applied (just a thought) regards Barry..🤕
As temperatures have hit 0 degrees here in West London, apart from having a roof, conditions in my garage are probably close to yours outside so am embarking on my annual “will the Metcalfe survive the winter” experiment!
Thinking back to my years in the Print Industry, I would be amazed if as part of the printing process the kits weren’t given a varnish or sealant. This is different to a paint type varnish you have used so not a waterproofing but seals the printing and prevents marking and rubbing. Still would give some coating to the surface to both of you test buildings which may may explain why you are seeing less of a difference in the performance than you are expecting?
Don't know old mate, poor slate or a dodgy roofer perhaps? Can't help but think that perhaps the coating is retaining moisture within the card fiber as opposed to the uncoated, allowing more even evaporation/ drying and thus less warping. Time shall tell. Cheers
Hi Jules, a very interesting experiment. I guess if you could work out a way to spray both sides and thus effectively seal the card in a laminate of varnish 🤔
I suspect if you sprayed enough on the structure that it soaked through that could work, but then perhaps that runs the risk of creating bubbles or ripples 🤷♂️
Be interesting to see it all on another week 😉🍀👍🍻
BTW, what did you need up buying at Milton Keynes? More than you intended or were you well behaved? 😅
I might have bought more that I intended😲
Hello professor Julian, the different tension from the varnish looks to be having an effect and once the glue fails this is allowing the uncoated side of the card to absorb more than I would guess is happening with the uncoated hence more swelling and bulging. It’s a theory at least 😉
I think that's exactly what's happening🙂