Medieval Republics and their portrayal in Crusader Kings 3
Вставка
- Опубліковано 7 вер 2024
- Medieval Republics, though fascinating, are not currently playable in Crusader Kings 3. Still it is important to know how Republics work - not just for an anticipated update making Republics finally playable. And it is interesting to have more background on how they actually worked in medieval history.
If you want to play as Republics in the current version of Crusader Kings 3, you can use this amazing mod: steamcommunity...
We are very grateful for questions, comments, likes and subscriptions.
Music and Sound by Tweedo
Support us on Patreon: / historyinbits
Join our Discord Server: / discord
Follow us on Twitter at: / history_in_bits
Sources:
Democracy in Europe. A History - Thomas Erskine May
Nicol, Donald M. - Byzantium and Venice: A Study in Diplomatic and Cultural Relations
Madden, M - Enrico Dandalo and the Rise of Venice
Harris, J - Byzantium and the Crusades
Kirk, Thomas Allison (2005). Genoa and the Sea: Policy and Power in an Early Modern Maritime Republic.
Merrill Kaplan: News from Other Worlds - Studies in Nordic Folklore, Mythology and Culture
Short, William Rhuel. Icelanders in the Viking Age: The People of the Sagas
Slavoj Zizek; The Year of Dreaming Dangerously · 2012
Ingrid Mattson, Paul Nesbitt-Larking, Nawaz Tahir; Religion and Representation: Islam and Democracy
#crusaderkings3 #paradoxinteractive #crusaderkings
Quick shoutout to Tweedo for composing some fantastic music for this video! You can thank him personally in our discord group 😊
Venice is fun to play as in Civ 5 just because they don't work like any other civilization. You can't make your own cities you have to take over city states.
I really hope that when Republics actually get (re)added, they give non-merchant republics their own playable system too instead of just ignoring them.
One of my favourite medieval fun facts is that Gotland was briefly seized by a band of pirates called the Victual Brothers following the black death, which decimated Scandinavia and weakened the governments to a point where they were unable to stop this pirate band from just waltzing in. They held it for several years before the Teutonic Order intervened and stamped them out.
As if that isn't amusing enough, the motto of the Victual Brothers was "God's friend and everyone's enemy" hahaha
Just a question, was the loss of Gotland one of the heavy reasons why the Vikings declined?
One feature I really wish ck3 expands on is the nature of the feudal ‘state’ beyond the absolute authority of the king.
Like I wish they allow for republics to be playable and have their systems be a lot more fleshed out then in ck2. Along with this they should add more estate type features to make monarchies more interesting like adding parliaments and such.
Paradox already added regencies and elective monarchies which has made them a bit more interesting but they should really expand this in the future.
I miss the CK2 requirement of council approval for some actions. It made the council more involved than just "small bonus in a thing" or "placate angry vassal". In fact, a lot of CK2 features should be added back in. I strongly disagree with CK3's team's choice to exclude the "goofy" or "supernatural" events in CK3, which to me one of the best parts of the game. I miss the doomed children's crusades and the spawn of satan heirs.
@@James-vw9yy I agree. In CK2 rule settings you could toggle these events on or off, like having Wild Wasteland in Fallout games. People don't HAVE to have those events, but if one wants them, the option is available. Having a Spawn of Satan baby as a female ruler was so epic. And a great way to fix a messed up succession, being as they'd murder all of their older siblings!
Don’t worry they’ll sell it back to us soon enough.
@@James-vw9yy i mean... the children's crusade was a real thing that happened tho so i dont see how they could exclude that as a "goofy" and definitely not supernatural
The Qarmatians are a fascinating movement. I actually wrote my Honours thesis on their missionary movement
Super interesting! Do you want to share your thesis?
The ruler of Cordoba is called Al-Mansur which means the victorious in Arabic due to an epithet chosen by the ruler. The same can be seen with rulers of the Abbasid empire in 867.
Thank you for the input!
Well in Italy it was full of comunes or comuni which were republican. The lombard league had a federalized organizational structure. And of course Milan was by far one of the largest cities in medieval europe
Ah yes, one of the many ck2 features cut out of ck3
Well..
Easy future money maker for paradox, i always wonder why they didn’t include dlc content from ck2 that was essential, then i realize.
Money it’s money
@@beepboopbeepp most of the content get’s included in free updates, in contrast to ck2 wich is barely even playable without paying
@@Cigmacica on the other hand it's free
@@shululu7572 it wasn't originally
I am glad that you have mentioned Quarmantians, they were actually a thing as far as I am aware in CK2.
Yes they were! As a faith at least
Loved the video. Hopefully one day we will get to play merchant republics again. I think it is the only thing that is stopping me from moving over from ck2 to ck3. Also, the profile picture is so cute!
My fav historical topic period, thank you very much!
I believe some others could be added but I understand that defining what counts as a proper self governing republic on the period is difficult. But as you said the Qaramantian and Iceland both have strong arguments for being included (I’d also say Frisia somewhat qualifies)
Also when the DLC comes I hope it fleshes them out a bit more more than in CK2 where they were all basically Genoa during the late Middle Ages
Thank you for the feedback, we also really enjoyed researching the topic :)
@@historyinbits Not to forget that original CKII only had christian feudal lords as playable, everything else is dlc or later updates. There were a lot of other republics added through DLC.
I would love to see a video covering a region in Eastern Europe. The regions of Poland, Hungary, and the Rus' are fascinating to look at in my opinion thanks to their often unique government forms that weren't quite western feudalism. the 867 start date especially is super interesting. You have the powerful Catholic Great Moravia with their pagan vassals holding on to much of Polish land with the Polish chiefs eagerly wanting to eat them up, the Magyar tribes who have still to make their journey into Pannonia, and the Viking Chieftains in Novgorod and Kyiv.
There will be a video about Khazaria soon!
Considering how peasant republics in the HRE were the result of the land being so poor that no centralizing power, be it burghers, the clergy, nor the nobility wanted to rule them, you could say that gotland was a peasant republic by that standard. I think you should look into what peasant republics actually are during the mediaeval period, instead of relying on various pdx memes to inform you about how they functioned. They were not "socialist" or anything like whatever you seem to be imagining.
As for cordoba, well republics like venice had families get the seat of the doge constantly, doesn't not make them a republic. Cordoba just didn't live long enough for another family to rise to prominence from within.
Just to contextualise Iceland a little further, the _þing_ was actually an entirely common phenomenon in Scandinavia. Where it differs is that it seems to have taken a deeper root and with wider concerns than the assemblies of Scandinavia - perhaps because of the island's relatively small size and population and the distance to other groups of people (the closest being the Faroe Islands and Orkney)
Yessss was waiting for this one! You are a king 🎉
Well hello there! Hope we covered Venice well :)
I love these kind of mechanics vs history videos! Have you considered doing one for Anglo Saxon England? Getting the Witan mechanics is a big step up over CK2's gavelkind/partition default, but I believe there is still some great inaccuracies in how Anglo Saxon vassels are modeled. From my understanding, which is admittedly based on only cursory research, Anglo Saxon Eorls were more akin to Byzantine viceroys than high medieval heridatory, their titles were not automatically conferred to children, and they were in theory revokable at the King's pleasure. Harold Godwinson, future King, was first named Eorl of East Anglia whilst his father was still Eorl of Wessex, when Godwin died, Harold was granted the more prestigious Wessex Eorldom, but did not keep East Anglia, something you can't currently model in game without incurring tyranny by revoking titles.
Yes, I think we’ll have to do England at some point :D
I look forward to it!
Ah, yes. Medieval Republics. "Republic" in name, oligarchy in practice.
Personally hoping that expanded Trade and Republic mechanics is one of the next big expansions. Maybe after an Imperial expansion or flavour pack
Well hello! Glad to sees my mod brought up
Glad to see our video being noticed!
Funny because Amalfi and Genoa were Republics in 1066 start in Crusader Kings II. Genoa had a Serene Doge like Venice and Pisa, but Amalfi was not playable being a non-merchant Republic.
What probably people are missing is that by 1100 in Italy most of the cities were independent republics. In Italian history we called them Communes, but Municipalities would be more appropriate. Substantially speaking during the 11th century cities in Italy took little by little exception to Imperial laws and authority through concessions since the Emperor reach on Italy was weak and as a consequence they were exepected by normal feudal laws. As time went by cities emancipated/absorbed counties around themselves leading next to wars between the cities states and ultimately led to legues war against the Emperor and later to total independece in 14th and 15th centuries.
They missed the Duchy of Poljica (County of Cetina in Ck3) which was a peasant republic
Very nice video! Appreciate your mention of the Hanseatic League! Like the keys in the Bremen heraldry! Cheers !
Was Res Publica updated to 1.9? I see a lot of comments asking for an update and I don't want to download another mod that seems determined to kill itself by refusing to update.
Your videos are aways great.
Thank you so much! :)
Great video! I enjoyed the presentation and your approach to research.
Thank you very much for the kind words!
Can you do one on the Middle East and Persia?
Will look into it!
Nice video, as you said Iceland and the Qarmatians should be included, even taking the place of Urbino and Lombardia (if Genoa isn't included they shouldn't be either). But for properly fun republican playthroughs we more or less need a 12 century start were their number and importance increased drastically (third crusade?)
I really want to play as Republics, at the same time. I really feel more cultures need packs to make them more individual.
You forgot to mention the Novgorod Republic!
Maybe there should be a part 2!
@@historyinbits I totally agree!
I miss the iron century start
Us too!
Video idea: Portrayal of crusades/jihads and crusader states.
another republic around this high medieval age was Ankara in anatolia. it was ruled by the Ahi brotherhood, a merchant guild that had members throughout anatolia, these were muslim (sufi and/or alevi i believe) turkish craftsmen and artisans and such. it existed as a mostly social and economic entity until the aftermath of the collapse of anatolian seljuks, when they became de facto independent in Ankara and ruled it in a similar oligarchic fashion to italian merchant republics.
unfortunately it wouldnt exist in any of CK3's start dates, it only existed for around late 1200s to 1354, when the ottomans annexed them. ahis would remain an influental force in the ottoman state for a good while afterwards but their republic didnt survive
Great vid! Keep up the good work.
Thank you! :)
Hell iceland is by some ie considered to be an proto anarcho capitalist nation and is certainly an example or a nation who is some were between anarchist and minarchist
Lore of Medieval Republics and their portrayal in Crusader Kings 3 momentum 100
Lol, I’m so used to mods I legitimately thought Iceland was a Republic in base game. Whoops.
The nice is that undoubtedly Theocracies, Republics, and more will be added to the game and hopefully at a much better for, than it existed in CK2.
Wasn't Venice part of the Roman empire (Byzantines) by both start dates, at least officially?
I think Domenico is labeled as the second due to his father ingame (and also irl but more importantly ingame) also being named Domenico and the game mechanics
You can technically crwate more republics in the base game as well. Grant ruler a city title then grant them a barony and duchy
Some more Russian principalities were republics. For example, in Novgorod, the prince was elected by the People's Veche (a meeting of free people). Also, Veche decided all other issues and could expel the prince if he could not cope with his duties.
Yes, Rurikid princes served as kinda "outsourced doges" of the Grandmaster Novgorod (a title like "the Most Serene") while the city was actually ruled by merchant families or leagues who controlled the Veche ("Thing") voting.
@@BiglerSakura The princes were mercenaries for protection.
Qarmatians did show in CK2 in the 936 start. But aside from having slightly different religious mechanics, they're not a Republic and function just like every other Muslim state with the questionably Iqta government system.
Isn’t Miran in Charkliq in the Tarim basin also labeled a republic?
I have a less than strategical love of building empires with only republics for vassals. Took me several games to figure out how.
2:13 i might fight you on that
I would love to see a break down of the great adventure rulers or other in game plots
We did one on Iberia in Pieces and one on 867 England :)
there is actually a duchy title of Almafi, the mayor of city of Almafi holds it
oh wow never realized that you cannot play republics in this game
Haha neither can you play theocracies!
Great video, but the fact that you didn't mention the frisian peasant republics was kinda disappointing...I'm kinda biased though.
Maybe we’ll need to make a second part
@@historyinbits I would love to see that.
you forgot to mention the county of Hamburg the capital is a city barony, also you should include the traditions in this videos
Where is the Amalfi Republic? I live in Italy, near it
Actually, the title of Hansa does exist in CK3, with the capital in Luebeck. But nobody knows how to form it.
I absolutely adore these videos
Can you this (merchant republic) but in EU4?
How’s the book called you quoted around 04:30?
Thomas Erskine May - Democracy in Europe - A History, Volume 1
@@historyinbits thanks a lot 👍🏻
Let’s goo
Yees
As good as it seems to be based on my frst impression, unfortunately Res Publica hasnt been updated since December
You should have waited on this one until Republics were made playable analysing them is currently pointless other than pointing out their existence.
That’s not going to happen for a while though. I’ve heard nothing from Paradox about any dlc for it yet and I suspect they’d have the decency to alert me if they were making a republic dlc, considering I made the republic mod and serve as a head of the modding community
Since you're the head/Elder of the modding community. Do you know if maybe they have something to make Crusades more immersive? You know like being able create another crusader state than the Kingdom of Jerusalem...
i am acctually do a Republic imperium. There is a spezial in Palermo Sizily. i make every vasall to Republics =) lots of money and fun
1:45 that definition is flawed. In monarchy power/titles are inherited and in republics anyone (maybe from a certain estate) can get a position.
That whole game CK3 is an insult for the Crusader Kings series.
It has nothing to do with the crusades and doesn't reflect at all the experience the medieval age.
Try to win a Crusade, even if you win it, the only thing you can create is the Kingdom of Jerusalem.
I would love if you made a video on the different Crusader States History Bits man?
We’re working on a video about Catholic Holy Sites which will probably mention the Crusader States
Interesting video
Thanks!
Hay can you do a video about islamic world in 1066 please I’m very desperate can you!
Very nice!
Thank you :)
The Republic of Lucca 1160!
Nice to be this early
Nice to have you here!
Now play as them :) oh wait this isn't CK2
Why can’t they just have all the ck2 dlcs in a newly realeased game? And then expand on it
Remind me to never have pizza in Ancona...
Why? Haha
@@historyinbits podesta
San Marino?
Where is the Republic of Novgorod?
Maybe reason for us to do a part 2!
You mention the Venetian sacking of Constantinople and the division of the West and East, but you forgot to mention that the Byzantines brought it on to themselves for the Massacre of the Latins 20 years prior to that.
The Byzantines massacred/ ran out some 60,000 Latin Roman Catholics and sold another 4,000 off to slavery.
Lombardia is a Region, not a city...
Hopefully they at republic but better then in ck2. It could be done with family dynesties. In real life there was a lot of drama in republics with some families
Niceee
:)
Hi :)
Hello there!
Qurtuba was less a republic than a taifa kingdomn with a senate instead of a king. All taifa kingdoms were illegall according to the sharia, as sunni muslims could only be governed by a caliph of the Quraysh tribe, so of the ummayad, abbasid or hachimid families. The last Qurtuba Ummayad Caliph, Hisham II, proclaims Sanchuelo, son of the Hachib (prime minister) Almanzor his heir, thus making a crime against one of the pillars of sunni islam and being both killed in 1009/1013. That led to the anarchy, as there was nomore llegall base of power. The ethnic/military factions of the army and administration (slavs and bebers) start to create their own petty kingdoms in competence with the iqta arab and iberian noblitity. Cities call these warlords to govern but if they act in opposition to the citizens will, they were expelled and another warlod call to rule.
To legitimate their dinasties, these new illegall kingdoms try to find the more strange solutions. Mujahid of Denia (slav) enthrone a puppet caliph of a minor branch of the ummayads. The hammudids od Malaqa create a false testament in where Hisham II gives to them the caliphate and create a false genealogy that makes the distant relatives of the ummayads. The tuyibids of Zaragoza, proclaim theorically alliangece to the distant abbasids of Baghdad. My personal favourites where the abbadids of Seville, who take a beggar and dress it like Hisham II.
In the middle of these chaos, the weatlh people of the previous caliphate capital decide to abolish the caliphate in 1031 and wait untill see what the new order will be, being provisionally ruled by a senate.
>The British monarchy is democratic
Lmao
I mean, it's better than some places, but yes, recent events do highlight how very undemocratic our state really is.