Hot Rodding With Propane (And Propane Accessories) - Overview Of The Impco Carburetor
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- Опубліковано 9 лют 2025
- We scored a complete Impco model 425 Propane Regulator and Mixer setup off of Facebook Marketplace to test on our mule. This propane carb is fitted with a standard Holley base plate and is a direct bolt on for any square bore intake manifold.
Here's a rundown on why propane is the ideal substitute for high octane gasoline, why it works better than hot vapor and hydrogen intakes, and why it would be a good idea to have one on hand if things go Mad Max in the future.
#engine #cars #fuel #classiccar #mopar #teotwawki
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Propane vehicles were huge in Canada in the 80's. There was no road tax on propane at that time. A friend got into the business and we converted many vehicles, dozens if not hundreds, mostly trucks and taxi cabs. This ended more or less after propane for road use started to be taxed the same as gasoline. It was still cheaper than gas but not as much. Also, it was harder to convert fuel injected cars and almost impossible once the engines were fully computer controlled and distributor-less. We did a few high performance installs. Our experience on a typical 8.5:1 4BBL small block was that power and fuel economy was down closer to 10%; we measured fuel economy carefully and never were able to get to only a 5% loss. However we built a couple of high compression 11:1+ engines and could run these at full ignition timing 38-40 degrees advance. These ran very well with dual Impco carbs and no sign of detonation, and would make tons of power. We played around with a turbocharged 2.3 Ford and could run 15 lbs of boost on propane but the boost control was primitive at the time and we eventually had a bad failure. For daily driver installs we usually used a dual fuel install with the Impco carb sitting on top of the conventional gas carb. The air could be set to bypass the Impco carb with a cable operated control, and there were fuel solenoids for both the gasoline and propane supply. In winter, on the Canadian prairies, there was not enough heat to vaporize the propane so normal practice if the temperature was below about -10 F was to warm the vehicle up on gasoline and then switch to propane. The vaporizer took its heat from the return heater hose. This worked really well.
Propane is an excellent automotive fuel, better in many ways than gasoline. It also produces consistently lower tailpipe emissions and less CO2 than gasoline. Catalytic converters are unnecessary.
why is it not used more?
As I mentioned, it is pretty difficult to retro-fit a mixer system like the one Tony has in the video to a computer controlled car. It would be possible to use injectors and inject liquefied propane the same way that gasoline is injected. The propane would have a significant cooling effect on the intake charge. This would be fine under heavy throttle and really useful with a boosted engine as the cooling would reduce the heat of compression, possibly eliminating the need for an intercooler. However, at idle and cruise it might cause icing. The computer and the A/F sensors would have to be calibrated for propane. There are no unsolvable problems, and I think the real reason that propane has never been adopted as a mainstream automotive fuel has more to do with infrastructure. The refining, distribution, and retail sales systems are all set up for gasoline. Propane is mostly a byproduct of natural gas production. If a significant portion of the North American light vehicle fleet were converted to propane, there would be a huge increase in demand, and the infrastructure for producing and distributing propane would have to be built out to match this. This would have to be paid for with increasing propane prices. It would be a disruption to the market. On the other hand, it would be a much lower disruption than the mass conversion to battery-powered electric vehicles.
I would support increased use of propane as a vehicle fuel in a heartbeat. It is much more practical than CNG (compressed natural gas), which has been touted as a replacement for diesel fuel.
Propane actually evaporates on -42C so it’s better than gasoline for cold starting . The problem are the evaporator- pressure reducer rubber membranes which lose its flexibility on low temperatures . There are generation 5 sequential LPG injection systems today which inject LPG straight in liquid phase in to intake runners so there evaporator - reducer is obsolete , such a vehicle start directly on LPG on very low temperatures and they doesn’t have/ need additional gasoline tank .
I have the same setup on my 440 in a motorhome and it runs great and is economical. Running gasoline at these prices would be very costly, I have two tanks totalling 150 gallons at $2.30 a gallon instead of $6.25 is a huge difference. Stainless valves, 10:1 compression, cam designed for propane(early intake, late exhaust) timing way up to max, highest flow rate on the regulator diaphragm needle(that's how you adjust the"jets" along with the vacuum) different diaphragm needles are available. There are numerous types of shut off valves available to cut the propane off at the tank automatically when engine stops or too high of a flow rate in case of engine failure or hose breakage. Propane loves boost and I would like to turbo it but not in the vehicle it's in now.
@@edlawrence5724 turbos can easily solve the problem with the variable octane rating of propane-butane mix( dew to use of Summer/ Winter mixes ) , just by simply adjusting the turbo boost. The only problem is that turbo engines has lower compression ratios so the cold starts would be a bit more difficult probably .
In Australia propane systems were big in the taxi industry and even in diesels. We even had liquid injected propane systems that gave way more power due to the cooling. Running into the 9’s quarter mile with a 6 cylinder turbo taxi was quite popular. Engines also lasted longer also.
@@angrybastard7364 humans produce CH4 as well :) its octane rating is 130 so compression ratios of 14-17 are possible , the problem is the low energy
density, so it need to be stored under high pressures ( usually 220Bar ) in order to have acceptable autonomy.
@@angrybastard7364 Proper Mad Max reference there. Nice.
A correction: E85 has an octane of 105, propane has on octane has about 110. Ak Miller would say that your power loss with propane was 10%, and then he would run a lot of advance on the timing. Ak loved propane. Ak was one of the lead people at Ford that developed the propane version of the LTD, plus other projects. He hated Carroll Shelby, but that was the "competitive" side of him. (LOL) Most of the time when he came to our shop to pickup turbo parts, he would be driving "Ol' Blue", an old Ford pickup with a 100 gallon propane tank in the bed, it had the 300 straight 6 with twin propane carbs and twin turboed, with two holes cutout in the bumper with two intercoolers made for helicopters. Oh, and he'd street race that ol' pickup. He also had a late 80's Ford Thunderbird with a 351 which if I remember correctly was the Cleveland for which had a specific preference for. The engine had a homemade plenum with 6 forklift propane carburetors and was also twin turbocharged. He claimed heading to the shop one early morning of doing 180. Good times.
Indeed. I well remember reading about Ak Miller's propane hot rods. I agree with your comments about octane, it as about 110-115 (R+M)/2. As I mentioned in another comment, we had excellent results with a small block built to have a true measured compression ratio of 11:1 and lots of ignition advance. Turbochargers were still uncommon at that time, and aside from a 2.3 Ford, I didn't have the opportunity to test a propane turbo car. The 2.3 put out some stout power at 15 psi boost and would easily keep up with a similar 5.0 Fox Mustang. We were using a simple bypass bleed boost control, and one time it malfunctioned; the boost skyrocketed, and the head gasket blew. Further investigation found the top rings seized and other problems, and that was the end of the 2.3. I had a slant six Duster and intended to turbo it with propane fuel, but I got a good deal on a U-code 440, and that found its way into the Duster. Not long after that, the Government added road tax to propane, and I got out of the propane conversion business.
It’s a great fuel and actually can make more power if it’s injected straight in liquid phase in to intake runners , it’s about 20 % less energy dense than gasoline so fuel consumption for the same power is 20% more . it has strong cooling effect . Propane evaporates on -42C on ambient pressure . The octane rating usually is 105-108 since actually it’s a mix propane - butane and butane octane rating is lower . The mix contain usually 60/40 % propane/ butane during winter periods and 40/60% during summer periods in order to keep the pressures in the tank on acceptable levels , so the octane rating is higher during wintertime and is lower during the summer time , exactly the opposite of what need to be :)
@flappingflight8537 Where I live (Alberta) propane is exactly that, propane. It is fractionated to HD-5 specification, which calls for at least 90% propane. In practice it is usually fractionated to HD 2, which is 98% propane. This is due to the higher value of butane as a separate product. HD 5 has a maximum content of 5% butane. LPG is a propane-butane mix. I was a plant engineer in a 100,000 BBL/d NGL fractionator earlier in my career. We would only produce LPG as a product for pipeline transport where the vapor pressure was limited. Adding butane lowers the vapor pressure. In the winter you would want as little butane as possible as excess butane will result in low pressure in the storage bullets. In hot climates butane will moderate the pressure in summertime. I designed a plant in Africa where we would vary the propane-butane mix to control the vapor pressure in the storage spheres as they had a maximum design pressure of 95 psig. We could vary the mix from 30% to 70% butane. In the summer we had excess propane and would burn it on site in gas turbines to produce electricity. However in North America butane is almost always fractionated out completely, with only a few exceptions, and LPG mix is not generally sold. Butane is very valuable to refineries as it is used to blend gasoline to the maximum vapor pressure allowable. You are correct that propane evaporates at -40 at atmospheric pressure. Butane is quite high octane as well; the exact rating would depend on the mixture ratio between normal and isobutane.
@@flappingflight8537 The only liquid-phase injection system I've ever even heard about was Oldsmobile made an Indy Pace Car late 80s-early 90s that could switch undetectably from gasoline to LPG with a rocker switch. I think it was like a turbo 301 with MPFI. Pretty sure it wasn't as easy as they made it look.
@@patrickshaw8595 ua-cam.com/video/1sa9Ffwb9xQ/v-deo.htmlsi=WkJ32oSDH-oD7T0l
Through the 90's and 2000's I had a turbo charged 4.1L Falcon 6 here in Australia, it was LPG only and it went incredibly well. It was an Impco system like you have on the table there. LPG used to be sub 20c a Liter here.
Things I strongly suggest for a safe install are mounting the regulator on the inner fender and running hard copper line to the tank, pull the copper through clear plastic tubing. Fit a cutout solenoid valve just after the tank and just before the regulator for safety, the solenoids are powered from a module that senses ignition pulses so the moment the engine stops turning, the gas is locked off. Automotive propane tanks differ from forklift tanks also, they have a gasketed door over the fittings and vent to the outside of the car. Also make sure you have some form of fill limiter so the tank never goes over 80% full, the automotive tanks have a float and cutoff valve inside them, allows for expansion on a hot day.
The tank cutoff valve can be tricky when you fill, then drive up a hill afterwards, tripping the valve; first time it happened to me and my vehicle sputtered to a halt, I didn't know what was going on; a quick phone call to my LPG guru sorted it; just leave the engine switched off for 5 minutes to reset the valve.
I've been running propane or LPG as it's known here in Australia since the eatly 1990's. Ford went hard on propane from the factory for taxis. I have a 2006 Falcon wagon fully set up from the factory running a green top barra with a vialle converter similar to the impco. She gets about 550 miles on a 31 gallon tank on the highway. Got 220,000 miles on it and hasn't missed a beat. Have rebuilt the converter once. Cost $100. As someone else posted a great side effect if you blow a radiator hose the converter will freeze up immediately and starve the engine before it cooks. 89c a litre vs $2.20 is the real kicker over here though. Greatest car I ever had. Love your content Uncle Tony. Catch ya from Birchip Victoria.
Tony, I am an American serving as a missionary dealing primarily with widows and orphans. I recently was as a propane dealer filling a couple of tanks with propane which I use for cooking with gas. About a half dozen taxis were there filling their trunk mounted propane tanks. I asked them why they had converted their cars from petrol to propane. They said it burned much cleaner but the reason was high fuel prices and low cost of propane. These are small Toyota, Nissan, Honda, Kia, etc. They said they have not heard of any safety problems. This will be an interesting series for me. Looking forward. Also, I might add it is not uncommon at all to see cars running gasoline on fire due to leaking fuel lines as they do very little routine maintenance here. They run a vehicle until it breaks the do repairs. Their president said in a speech that Ghanaians have a disposable attitude, run it until is fails, throw it away and start all over. Instead of paying for oil changes they pay for engine replacement. He was correct.
I really Loved my 1982 GMC S-15 powered by a 350 V8 running on propane…every time I got behind the wheel it was a Blast. Lawyers in expensive sports cars were a staple part of its diet!
I've been using Propane as the air conditioning refrigerant in both of my 1987 Mercedes for maybe ten years now. It uses R12 compressor lube and provides colder air temps than R12. Plus it is under $3 (three dollars) to fill the system. Hardware store propane!!
Get out really??🤔🤔
Same amount of lbs as R12?
@@Oldcarnut63 Yep. It works great and makes a difference in a HOT Las Vegas summer. If you have an R12 system, this makes it better and the charging costs drop to insignificant.
Just dont let it leak into the car!😮
@@LongIslandMopars If I could DM you on UA-cam, which I don't know how to do, I'll give you a link to how I do it on both my '87 Mercedes. It really is simple. Or email address.
King Of The Hill ! Uncle Tony!
Gall dang it Gribble
"Take that sniper efi off or I'm gonna kick your a$$!"
Dammit Kathy lol
Old Hank would have a tear in his eye for this one
I’ve had many vehicles that ran on propane. Was a big deal in Canada back in the day. Still tripping over propane shit. My 76 440 power wagon with two 425 impcos ona single Holly throttle plate. Thing was a beast
Forklifts, Zambonis and Chevy vans.......ohhh Canada 🍺🍺
In the 80's I had a 10 seat chevy van with dual fuel propane and gas. Worked great. I quickly learned that all most all small communities in the North heat with propane so filling up was never a problem.
I remember Propane conversions were popular in the 80's. The engine does run much cleaner for sure. Propane can also be used to replace R12 refrigerant.
Replacing refrigerant gas with flammable propane sounds like a terrible ideia
@@andremarini7113done it in my personal cars for years with no issues.
@@andremarini7113That’s why it isn’t often done. But, propane is a great refrigerant. At least if it did leak there’s only a couple pounds or so.
@@andremarini7113I hear the new y1234 stuff is flammable too
@@NBSV1
Haha if it wasn't so flammable it would be awesome to blow on an intercooler core to freeze it up because it's cheap
Love this ! Propane is also great the motor will also run much smoother & the oil never goes black
I remember guys converting their trucks to propane in the 1970s, and put big tanks in the bed. It's an alternative!
Known as LPG in Europe, cars can be ordered from the dealer with it. It's relatively common and runs way clean.
The low/no emissions answer is right there.
Can run as dual fuel i.e. switch between fuel sources at the flick of a button.
Good to see more awareness around it.
Hey Tony. I did this conversion on a carbureted Ford Ranger years ago. I went dual fuel, so the mixer went on top of the carb. Easy setup and very reliable. I still have all the parts for it. Have fun!
How many miles per gallon did you get off the propane? And what engine
4x4 ranger with 2.8 V6 engine. avg gas mileage was just under 20mpg.@@allurared9029
How did you do a dual fuel set up?
@@commanderwhite12 Impco make adapters to bolt their mixers onto some carbies, and for others you can custom fab one. I custom fabricated an adapter to fit a impco 425 to my 302w efi engine. Used the stock ford throttle body, it worked rather well.
Mixer on top of carb. 2 switches for gasoline off, propane on. Had to shut gasoline off and run the carb dry B4 turning propane on. Pretty simple...@@commanderwhite12
My dad had a 67 Galaxie that was converted to propane in like 1973. Ran like a champ with 0 issues.
Here in Europe, especially Italy and eastern Europe, LPG is still extremely common. There are vacuum operated (like yours) systems and injection systems that simply use the signal from the gasoline injectors. The kits are as cheap as around 200usd for a dedicated tank with a sending unit, vaporizer, mixer, and a simple ecu. I've been running all my cars on vacuum vaporizers for the past 10 years. Modern direct injected engines have made it harder to convert but several manufacturers currently offer lpg as an option from the factory.
I agree with what you said-the lower calorific value of LPG can be more than made up for with correct tuning. The longevity of the engine also increases as the gas does not contaminate the oil as quickly. As well as it does not wash the oil from the cylinder walls.
And the higher octane rating 105-108 allows compression ratio of 13-14 :1 which compensate the lost of power partially. There are a systems which inject the LPG straight in liquid phase which even increase slightly the engine power since the intake charge is cooled more and respectively more dense. Unfortunately most of conversions are done without engines compression ratios correction . There are South Koreans cars models which are designed to work only on LPG . Their engines compression ratios are 13.3-13.5 :1 . They start directly on LPG and doesn’t have/ need additional gasoline tank .
@@flappingflight8537
I have a Mazda Bongo van with 8.6:1 compression on propane; big power drop vs petrol.
@@petesmittIf it's a good system (ie not a cheap nasty amos ring system) and the ignition timing is adjusted a little, you should notice very little power drop on LPG. I had one of those crappy amos ring systems on my torana. Lacked power and economy on gas, compared to petrol. Took that junk off, as MCM would say "in the bin" that junk went, and fit an impco model L and an impco 200 mixer, power was back to almost the same as petrol, and my economy returned too.
Biggest trouble with LPG in australia, was that too few of the "fitters" actually knew what hardware to fit to what engine and how to tune it. They just slapped the cheapest junk on that they could charge someone for and sent the car out the door. You would take it back time and time again, they could never get it to run right, even on petrol, and people would blame the LPG fuel, Not the dumb ass who fit cheap nasty hardware that doesn't really work.
You get someone who actually knows how to select the right hardware, install it correctly and tune it correctly, and LPG car's are awesome. I've been running it for over 20 years, with impco vapor mixers, sprint new gen carby hat, early 00s vapour injection on a falcon 6, liquid injection fit in 2014 on my wifes ba xr8, which goes harder and makes more power on LPG, and I recently had a current generation obd2 AC STAG vapour injection setup fit to my BMW v8. Polish gear, and it's bloody awesome! That makes the same power on LPG or petrol!
Us Ozzies have a long history of LPG/propane cars, most of our taxis ran on the stuff for the last 30 years or so or until the hybrids came out. It was quite common to have a dual fuel vehicle where you could switch from gasoline to LPG/Propane on the go and you could get it at most service stations. They also made donut shaped tanks that fit where the spare tyre would go or just one big one normally that went in the boot/trunk along the seat back. It's good stuff and I'm sure I saw a big V8 in an old street machine magazine in the 90's with twin gas mixers on a tunnel ram.
He switched it back to petrol only . LPG is rubbish
I know propane was used in off road trucks cause unlike gasoline carburetors they run on extreme angles without starvation problems. I can't wait to see how this test goes
I was trying to think of why the last guy would have and I bet that's it
In my younger school years, I lived near Altus Oklahoma, where there were a lot of farmers and ranchers. There were always pickup trucks with propane tanks in the back that they ran on. It was my understanding that these were dual propane and gas setups.
Tony, real interesting subject. Besides BTU and efficiency, in this day and age you might want to put a word in for emissions coming out of the tailpipe and the sound it makes. Some folks here might be really surprised.
how is the sound different?
its safer than petrol , aussies use it a lot , but we use a copper line from tank to the LPG converter , it will ice up just at idle without a hot water feed tony . AND i dont see a shut off solenoid on that convertor , it should be on the line and wired to the ignition so when you turn the key off it shuts the flow off
When I was a young man we had an old John Deere 2 cylinder tractor (model 60 i believe) that was a factory propane model. Awesome tractor, lots of power and torque and ran very clean. The only downfall was filling the tank.
When I was a teenager in the late 70's my dad had propane on his f350 four door. He had a 80 gallon tank in the bed. He got the propane company to drop a big 500 or bigger gallon tank in our driveway he used to fill it with. His set up had a switch to go between gas and propane. It used the same carburator I'm almost certain. I am certain you could run either gasoline or propane. We had a long range with the 80 gallon tank and the two gasoline tanks. My older brother put one on his truck too. What started it was a 72 Impala my dad bought for my mom to drive that had a conversion already done with a tank in the trunk. I've pondered the idea of investing in a system since I was about 18.
Another benefit of LPG is you'll never wash down the cylinders or soak the plugs which also extends the life of the bottom end as you wont be driving around w/ sludge from gasoline getting past the rings and wiping out bearings.
I've been operating my dad's forklift for basically my whole life, in the meantime its had one oil change and the engine couldn't be in better shape. 4.3 chevy running on propane, super reliable. The blowby has next to no carbon in it so the oil literally never gets dark.
In South America they use CNG (compressed natural gas) in a setup very much like that one. I had one in my 1968 Ford Torino V8. The reason I did it was mainly for economy as gas was about 1/3 of the price. The good thing about CNG conversions is that the car was dual-fuel so could run the car with whatever was available. There was a weight penalty tho due to The fact that you needed to carry arround quite heavy and bulky gas containers. For something the size of a Torino no big deal, but as I said the main aim was saving on the price of the fuel
The new carbon fiber tanks are a lot lighter. Still bulky but weight ratio is alot better. Considering converting my 68 Dodge Charger to CNG . Octane rating for CNG is 130 octane and is currently $1.00 the compared to $4.00 a gallon for gasoline.
@@revchrismerchantfor me personally the CNG conversion was fundamental as it allowed me to carry on using the car at a time where money was tight and the saving with the price of fuel meant the system paid for itself very quickly! Good if you can save weight with the composite cylinders!
A friend of mine had a Ford pickup back in the 1980s and converted it to natural gas. It allowed him to get around California's air pollution laws ofr perfomance modifications and he was able to adapt performance parts for his engine. The truck was a beast. The truck was stolen and found a couple of weeks later. It had run out of "gas" and the people soon realized that regular gas won't work(he'd taken the regular gas tank out and had a tank in the bed of the truck for the natural gas).
It was an entire industry converting cabs & farm trucks into propane during the 80's. Propane tanks on a farm was a common as chickens. GM produced heated regulators at the rear tank, then switched a second set of injectors turned on while the gas injector turned off in the vans of the 80's. Man, the oil was like new!
ASE Master 78.
Propane is a great fuel. You mentioned the high octane rating but there's more. The Impco systems are simple, tuneable and have great potential. Contact them re: specs, procedures and tuning. They have great resources available. A few important points: 1) the timing curve is very different than gasoline 2) the converter you have is good for 325 hp, period. Tee in more converters as needed. 3) lean is safe, rich drastically slows burn rate and torches exhaust valves 4) the mixer number isn't cfm, that 425 will flow 800 5) the mixer senses air density, compensating for altitude and temp, etc. 6) the ignition will need smaller plug gaps and will still run higher secondary voltages. It needs to be robust 7) propane has less btu/lb than gasoline but higher compression, 12+/1 and more efficient combustion mean there's more power potential 8) it will tame the cam a lot at idle 9) propane vapours are much safer than gasoline vapours. 10) there are different mixer fuel buttons and diaphragm springs available to tune the fuel curve. There's a lot more advantages and I know it's been run successfully in Pro Comp. I'm very eager to see what you do with it.
Would be hilarious to mount the propane tank on the trunk lid like a forklift.
😅 and mount some huge forks on the front just for show (like off the Pettibone my dad used to drive)
Totally awesome information 👍
Grill tanks have vapor valves on them not liquid I believe in order to use them you’d have to turn them upside down. Forklift tanks can be either horizontal mount tanks or vertical and need to be mounted correctly so they draw liquid propane and not gas to work properly. In colder temperatures you need both a liquid valve on the tanks and a vapor valve to start the engine off of vapor until the coolant has warmed up before switching to liquid or the vaporizer will freeze up.
This mixer has 3 easy adjustments. Has a 1) power valve on front 1/2 wrench turn left or right more propane vapor 2) Idle mixture screw on side and works like conventional idle mixture screw 3)Idle speed screw not no high speed idle but can mount electric throttle stop on temp sensor. You can also “jet” mixer with different cones and or shimming cone with nylon shims. Good luck with project and as you mentioned more timing is good.
The timing is tricky! When on low to middle range RPMs it needs of additional advance ( because of the lower burning speed ) in the higher RPMs range it want lower than gasoline advance because gaseous fuels mix with the air better and there is no necessary of any time for evaporation since the fuel is pre evaporated , also the turbulence on high RPMs is much stronger which is major factor determining the speed of burning .
Usually additional timing advance angle modifiers are used called Timing Advance Processors which can be programmed to mimic such a timing advance curves .
UTG over here in argentina almost all old cars run in propane.. is called GNC
Tony, you're a scholar and a saint....of automotive mechanics and dynamics. Thank you for your contributions. I like that you don't assume we're stupid rubes but that you know most of us haven't gone extremely deep into engine science. You're spot on with your content.
over in the uk i have been running propane for over 15 yrs it was half the price of petrol now about 70% still a good saving
I am American and studied in Belgium. While in Belgium I met a man with a propane powered pickup truck. It was a small truck and he complained that the tank took up too much of the truck bed and he was going to get rid of it. In America we have larger pickup trucks with dual fuel, propane and petrol and years ago in the west, propane was half the price of petrol, but in the crowded east, propane was less popular and was about the same price as petrol in America, which is cheaper than in the UK.
I ran a dual fuel system (gas/propane) in an oil field service truck (1978 F-150) in 1980! Loved it!!!
Funny you posted this today. I just got ahold of a NIB gasoline to LNG conversion carb for my generator. I'm super psyched to get it hooked up. Good luck with yours and the Jeep!
Air cooled ?
Better be religious about checking valve clearance.
And set the plug gap to like .020, very narrow on the air cooleds or it'll spit and pop and backfire and sneeze.
Briggs standbys require a valve adjust every 100hrs ,and they need it I've seen the exhaust valve close up it's .006 clearance by then and it's hard to start because it has no wind.
But I don't know 💩 I've only been doing this for 20yrs ,or maybe it's minutes, yeah. 😂😂
Being it's a dry fuel ,it's a lot tougher on valves and seats compared to gasoline.
Tony, keep in mind that propane, unlike natural gas, is heavier than air so be sure to vent the trunk at the lowest point. Also keep that in mind when storing it in a closed space. The gas will settle on the floor, not the ceiling so you could have a leak and not smell an odor if it doesn't fill the space.
There is also a filter/vacuum lockoff thats usually a separate piece but I see you have an all in one regulator and lockoff, Interesting. I'm used to forklift systems...$1200! Thats 4 times what a common forklift system goes for.
Yeah, I found a new set up for a chevy 350 for about 1000 and that was with a edelbrock manifold
Years back I converted a truck and liked it so much also converted my snowblower, no more gas going bad in it and it always starts great.
My dad put a propane on a flathead ford back in the early 50’s. Love this channel.
The thumbnail. 😂 love this guy.
I’d be apprehensive too since I smoke tobacco products like you! I converted a gas generator to propane and it works great…lots of American made kits out there for conversions. Good stuff as usual UT.
I smoked around propane for years, it takes an open flame or hot spark to set it off. Tobacco (and other vegetable matter) burns too cool to ignite it.
the best part as far as the leak goes with propane is the scent that's added
Uncle Tony, dude! About time you did something on LPG/Propane! You should check out some of the crazy stuff we do with it "down under" in Australia!
I've been running it for over 20 years now, including an impco 425 setup like your have there, as well as vapour injection and liquid injection setups. Modern vapour injection stuff like the AC Stag Qmax stuff is very cool, I'm running in on my daily driver, bmw E39 v8, makes a v8 cheap to run daily!
Go have a read of the Impco parts book, it will give you some clues on how the tuning works on the 425!
You can use copper fuel lines for NG applications to extend your line set up
You should also make a woodgassafier thing to make your own gass
Saw a show that explained that. Wild ! It got popular during the depression. Huge add-ons to the car I saw in photos. One guy said you're essentially baking the wood. I've thought, if I already had one of everything,that would be a neat project. The propane has me thinking, with the big tanks I see on farms. I wonder if anyone up north had an old 12 valve cummins or way back, that Perkins in a Dodge pickup truck, running on home heating oil 😁
I've run a few vehicles on propane through the years! Clean!
Very cool. Propane and propane accessories. Takes me back to a simpler time. God bless
Im excited to see this unfold!
I’ve been in the propane business for 29 years we have a couple of Ford pick ups that run on it and the oil is super clean every time we change it I love propane lol and race, cars and Mopar lol
Over the summer, our local school district took delivery of 3 or 4 new L.P.G. powered busses to evaluate them against their typical diesel units. They started running them at the start of the new school year a few weeks ago. You might want to contact your local district or, maybe even your city/county garage to find out if they have any propane powered trucks or busses. If so, I'd bet you could pick the brains of the mechanics there for tips on setting your system up, even if it's just for a baseline.
I suppose your buses has much modern sequential injection systems . Are they run purely on LPG or simultaneously needs diesel fuel ?
Looking forward to your testing with Propane (and propane accessory's). There was a racing El Camino back in the 80's that used Propane. he was running like 14 to 1 compression and was quite fast. Biggest issue he had was not enough CFM flow to optimize his set up. Technology has come a long way since then. Very curious how this works out...🤓
i had a vialle setup on my big block chev [10.5 cr 292 magnum cam dual plane high rise]
the vialle was simpler it bolted on top of the carb through the aircleaner stud
on average i lost a second in the quarter on propane
but the cost of operation was a fraction of gas
4:10 you may have a little more power but now you have to deal with the weight of all the equipment
Awsome find! Can't wait to see some future videos on this setup!
Howdy Tony, I ran a stand alone LPG fuel system on my Discovery, cut down to a trayback with toolboxes, in northern NSW until it was difficult to get, seems like the authorities want to get rid of automotive use here in Aus. Ranthe same setupon my 3.9litre, with a weight of 2800kgs I was getting around 4km per litre of lpg, in18 months the price per litre went from 70 cpl to 125 cpl which compared to diesel at the time was uneconomical so now I'm running a diesel in the car/ ute. Take care dude
Thanks Uncle Tony on the education lesson on propane, I did not know.
This is awesome, looking forward to the testing, another positive of propane is no carbon build up, the engine would last forever.
30+ years old there was a hot rodder that ran his 37 Chevy coupe on propane. He had two of those setups on top of a blower feeding his small block Chevy engine. It made plenty of power! I boosted the compression on a 250 Chevy inline six using propane pistons around the same time.
Thanks Uncle Hank!
I ran that impco setup on a 78 bronco in the early 2000’s. Cost-wise it was better than gas-about 18mpg gas equivalent. Off-road low rpm economy was amazing! Max power was down definitely more than 5%
Most of the stations around here removed their propane pumps by 2010, probably from lack of popularity
Needed to attempt the hank hill voice😂😂 cool find!
Hell yes, I can't believe i missed this video, I'd be extremely excited to watch my favourite UA-cam hot rodder playing with LPG/propane!
Yesterday i just finished reassembling my Falcon's 4.0 litre SOHC six (blown head gasket), and had to screw around with the wiring loom to regain injector pulse, then replace three of the injectors to get it to run. Man, all of that wiring, sensors, connectors... I'm determined to simplify how the thing works. Unfortunately a carb conversion is illegal where I live - but propane is absolutely legal! (Must be done by a qualified LPG professional though). And at less than half the price per litre, I'll still save a heap of money even despite needing to consume about 20 percent more.
Sadly LPG is in its twilight years in most of Australia but my state (South Australia) is still hanging on fairly well, and Victoria still seems to be retaining a lot of stations that stock it. If I fit dual or even triple tanks that should eliminate any range anxiety 😀
this was a big deal back in the 1970s with the oil embargo too bad it didnt catch on. im looking forward to this one Tony 👍👍
Propane was a big deal in Australia until about 2016. It's still around by the customer base is shrinking, however, a very serious economic downturn, think 1930s style great depression, would probably see a big return of it. Propane can be found for between 70 and 90 cents AUSSIE per litre in a lot of places, while Gasoline is around 1.90 to 2.35 Dollars Aussie per litre, with a well setup system, you can get good power, good fuel economy, and good wallet economy too!
Super cool! Looking forward to seeing what you do with it.
I run a propane/gasoline setup on my '65 GMC pickup, there is a video on my channel explaning the system. Impco systems are great, never give any trouble. Propane is a great fuel, only downside is the on vehicle storage. If the valve train as in valves and hardened valve seats are set up properly there should be no issues with propane.
Shake and bake 😂 I heard about people cooking off the manifold. But Uncle Tony, I am always impressed to see your content. Thank you sir
I would love to see this set up on a slant 6. It would be an interesting video to be sure! Please do It Uncle Tony!!!
Lol, I worked a job that one of the forklifts was a propane powered slant 6, it was a beast
Wasn’t that long ago that taxi company’s would buy all the old police cars at auction, convert them to propane and run them for years
Who knew passing gas could be so fun and informative?
and so is converting your car to run on propane!
Sounds interessant. I wonder if some adm seat valve leaking can cause a backfire in the intake ánd kaboom the whole thing. Buts interessant.
That could have been what happened to this guy my dad worked with. Had a propane truck in the '80s, started it in the morning, bulged his garage walls outward. His wife came out, what was that !?
Look forward to seeing this project. I have a C30 truck that I am considering going the propane route for many of the same reasons.
Had that setup in an 86 Step30 from the Elizabethtown Gas - Edison. It was a good work van but it was hot in the summer. It started getting expensive to run around 2003 .
Hey Uncle Tony, I have a thought I think would be good to keep in mind. What about the cooling of this fuel? One of the aspects that make regular petrol such a good fuel is it's cooling properties for the engine, since petrol is a liquid, when it enters the engine, both from it's heat and from combustion, petrol begins to turn into vapours which takes a big chunk of the heat from the combustion. But since propane is a already a gas, it won't/shouldn't have as good of a cooling effect, so I'd expect combustion temperatures to be higher than with regular petrol.
Edit: I live in a country where propane/LPG is semi common and as far as I have asked around, most people only have bad things to say about it, always mentioning how it shortens the life of the engine to just a few years, which considering what I've just said in this comment I would not be too surprised if it's the case. (Don't get me wrong I would still be very happy if propane was actually a perfect fuel)
Not true about shortening the life. 0 cylinder wash. Oil never gets dirty. I’ve ran propane for years and as long as you have hardened seats so you don’t burn a valve or sink the seats. You would be amazed of the condition of a high mileage engine that spent its life on propane
Propane fork lift engines usually outlast the fork lift chassis, if maintained; for the reasons mentioned.
EFI had same effect when engines switched from carbs.
Doubled the miles an engine lasts and lasts longer than chassis.
Carbed engine cylinders was wore out after 100k, blow by, oil consumption, etc.
Cylinders would have to be bored, to remove cone wear shape and ridge cut at the top.
After EFI, 200k+ became the norm.
@brycemadden8323 @jhoncho4x4 Hey thanks for the replies guys. Yeah I neglected to mention that most of the negative things I hear about propane comes from people's experiences with cheap aftermarket propane conversion kits on regular cars that don't have hardened valve seats. If the engine was made for propane and maintained then no doubt it will live as long as the sun.
YUP! I rebuilt lots of carbed engines, after around 100k (depending on maintenance) loose compression and burn oil, all had a ridge at the top of the cylinder, I have rebuilt factory EFI engines, never seen one with a ridge yet.@@jhoncho4x4
@domantas8185 Maybe they would do better with wood gas generators; lots of tar and gunk to cushion the softer valves of those engines.
1930's and 40's German cars and HD commercial trucks did well with them, during the end and immediately after WW2; from gasoline shortages.
Wood gas was fed similarly to propane.
But sometimes also used a gasoline carb, that would start engine on scarce gasoline and switch to wood gas, once it had generated enough to switch and maintain a steady supply of wood gas. Most of the long distances and long running times, was done with wood gas, to save gasoline for war vehicles.
I used to know this guy who sent his kid to the same daycare my daughter used to go to about 18 years ago. He had a square body Dodge Ram with a 360, full time 4WD, and a propane setup. It was a beast! He got me into really wanting me to do the same thing. Unfortunately, I never followed up on it, and then I just forgot all about it. Now I’m really wanting to do that to my Cutlass. That would be so nice, especially if I can get the compression up to 11:1 or even more.
Old timer use to be around here always always had propane on his truck he say tuned right nothing can bet them but if they wrong lots of head aches but best around when right
Thanks!
My dad had a propane kit put in his Winabego. He had 2 large tanks mounted on the roof and he was running both gasoline and propane with 1carb. He was able to switch between the 2 different fuels easily without needing any tools .
Back in the late 80's early 90's, a good friend of mine had a retired CAT service truck, 1980 F350 w/400m, granny low 4spd, dually, utility body, dual fuel, always loaded, he was an expert contractor, and occasionally towed bobcats or backhoe on a 9 ton triple axle 24' trailer, it had a large propane tank on top of the headache rack, maybe 50 or 75 gal that was more than 1/2 full at purchase, so naturally he had to burn it out, seems it had a lil bit less power overall but got the job done, it also had space shuttle miles on it and used very lil oil, seems the engine was very clean inside vs mileage and it didnt stink as bad at the tail pipe running on propane
I've been in the residential propane gas service business for many years now. One of my 1st bosses had a International pickup back in the day he drove many years. It was converted to propane and according to him during a emissions test it wasn't exhausting enough CO2 to show on the equipment they had at the time. He also mentioned the truck had over 300K and due to not having carbon contaminants oil lasted longer and engine had less wear. This will be interesting, thanks UT!
Been running Aussie LP Gas cars since about 1990, have a 327 with a Spreadbore Holley running LP Gas through the primaries and 98 Octane through the secondaries.
When I was in Seoul South Korea several years ago, a lot of the taxi cabs were running on propane, very common there.
Impco makes a plate where you run dual 425 mixers. With propane there is no fuel pump to fail. Propane doesn't turn to swamp water while sitting. I love the stuff.
This is why I enjoy the channel. Atypical hotrodding and experimentation
Hell yes! I've wanted to do this forever.
One advantage of propane fuel is the octane rating compared to gasoline, you'll never make it knock.
It also burns extremely cleanly. However you'd have to strip all computer controls off the modern motor to retrofit with propane.
Worked great in the old man's 74 Dodge 1 ton with a 318. Added benefits of forever clean oil and very smooth operation.
I was thinking about running the Chevy 230 in my ‘63 C60 on propane. I’m going to be paying close attention to this series
Out here on the left coast, we used to have a team with an early 50's turtle back Nash with a big inch motor running two regulators and mixers. Fairly heavy car and I think he was in the 10's on a regular basis with an automatic... Used to be a fight to get it started, so they used a squirt bottle with race gas to get it to light. But the team really loved the results. The engine was spotless internally and they did not have any detonation issues. Looked cool and sounded mean at the line. I think a 440 could be set up that way pretty easily. Lots of muni busses ran 440's on propane or CNG in problem air basins. Must be ton of parts and know how out there 🙃
Looking forward to this want to try it on my 77 Marquis
Pro tip: If you own one of those large 500gal or 1000gal residential propane tanks, you can buy a hose assembly that screws onto said tank, and fill your own smaller tanks. I believe the large tanks usually have a 'vapor' port on one end, and a 'liquid' port on the opposite.
This is exactly what Ive wanted to see 👍👍👍👍
I ran a 318 Valiant for over 20 years on LPG. Set up was the Impco 425 on a 4 BBL throttle body, probably came from a Barry Grant as the bores didn't seem to match a Holley. It was the most trouble free fuel delivery system I ever ran. The only reason I removed it is the decreasing number of "LPG" bowsers as the fuel companies keep ripping them out. (The Val' now runs an AVS2). It didn't help when the fuel companies started substituting Butane for Propane but all that suffered was the mileage. My daily driver for work is a Ford ute with the OEM option gas system (Viallie (SP) - european sourced and IMO not as reliable as the Impco but still a good system.
Apart from the need to plan your trips better and not run out of fuel or require Jerry cans, and the need for a gas fitter occasionally (legally that is. For those on the "free-er" side of the pond the Australian beauracracy has a was way of over policing every aspect of what they deem we're permitted to do). Also ensure your valves and seats are hardened.
The fuel itself is, just as Uncle Tony says, a great alternative to petrol (sorry "gasoline" ;) ). As the fuel vaporises well below freezing cold starts are easy no need for a choke or even a fast idle even in the southern states of Australia. Might be different in the colder climate of northern parts of the USA or Canada. The engines run cleaner, not just at the tailpipe but also much reduced plug fouling (even idling in heavy traffic) and your oil stays cleaner longer. Which directly translates to longer engine life, just ensure your valves and seats are at least ULP hardened. My Valiant has the Brazilian block which came with hardened seats. I rebuilt the engine somewhere around the 320000km (20000 Mile) mark the valve faces and seats were great - bores were also looking too good for the mileage - had the machinist question the mileage until he looked at the bearings and noticed the stretching on the valve collets. That engine has since clocked up a further 500 000 km (312500 Miles) most on gas but is now showing it's age.
This fuel is actually a very under-rated fuel. Build your system to suit the fuel (As Ford Australia did with the "dedicated" Barra Falcons) and it is actually than petrol in most respects. I haven't got rid of the Impco system just mothballed it. Just in case....
Dana "60" Glass. Had a customer back in the '90s who was overhauling an early '80s Dodge Diplomat 318 running on propane. Ran sweet when he got done with it.
I've run several cars over a period of 30 years on LPG in OZ, Victoria where it is still readily available Tony. I still run a classic 1966 Rover P5 coupe fitted with an alloy 4.4 Leyland P76 V8 and OMVL complex convertor LPG system that utilizes a simple LPG gas ring fitted to the original 2 barrel Stromberg carburettor. Not a performance system but very reliable. Over a 20 year period the car has done well over 300,000 kms as my daily driver. The engine is still amazingly clean internally and runs 11:1 compression as it was built initially to run LPG as its primary fuel source. Obviously, the ignition system (static and advance) have been optimized for the different burn characteristic of LPG as a fuel. Roughly speaking, minimum 15° BTDC initial static advance with the dynamic (centifugal) timing all in by 28° at 2500 rpm. Do fit a grunty (gear reduction) starter motor to deal with the higher compression and big lead in initial static advance timing. If fitting an LPG (or propane) tank in an enclosed space in the boot/trunk area ensure that it is properly vented (via a 2" PVC flexible convoluted hose) to atmosphere outside the car. This is a required legal regulation in OZ for LPG systems. All systems in OZ need to be certified with a compliance plate and checked every 10 years.
Once you get it worked out, look into Woodgas generators. I saw some videos of guys making Woodgas and converting refrigerator compressors to fill propane tanks with it and then use it to run portable generators.
My first job was delivering car parts in a propane 84 S10. The little 2.8 was built to take advantage of the octane it had lots of compression and decent cam. Add a 4.10 gear to the mix and it was lots of fun. I used to smoke 2.8 5 speed Camaros with it and no other S10 could touch it. Last I saw of it was on a truck leaving after corporate delivered our new 87 Dakota. It was nowhere near as fun.