Drum Tuning - Why the Bottom Snare Head Matters More
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- Опубліковано 22 тра 2016
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Drum tuning can be very challenge unless you know what to do for the symptoms that you hear. In this episode, we show a before and after of the snare drum and show how I altered the tone of the snare drum by using tuning.
Drum tuning is an art of using multiple pitches found within the lugs of the drum to form a full drum tone when the drum is hit.
Drum tuning is often overlooked because if you don't understand a few rules about the craft, then it seems daunting.
You will notice that the drum sounds fuller (And almost deeper) after we tune the drum, even though it is at a slightly higher pitch.
How is this so?
By using drum tuning we can increase the resonance of the drum so that the drum speaks better because of how the bottom head is resonating with the top head.
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+1 for showing the before and after immediately! seriously. do this all the time if you aren't already.
I really appreciate the fact that you didn't use a $2000 snare drum on this demonstration. I can't tell you how many snare tuning demos on YT have drummers with a clear advantage in equipment saying something like, "Tuning is just that simple. Do this and your snare will sound perfect, just like mine." Yet no one says much about the snare's reso head. Anyway, thanks.
Really cool comment. Yeah, I like to use regular stuff. The snare in this video I got for free because my friend thought that it sucked. But in reality, it's a really great snare. Still only a street value of maybe a 100 or 200 bucks I'm sure.
in my experience, good drum sounds are more about heads and tuning, rather than brands and material.
Unlike guitar amps. Components really matter there. I have rarely had a drum kit that couldn't rule.
so true haha
Just tuned a kids snare after putting on proper heads.. (like Remo ambassador,..etc..} Records like a 6o`s Ludwig. ((Most drummers\Humans have Brand Envy.. It is a disease. and While there IS something to be said for the attention to detail that goes into S o m e high end construction, AND why it matters (like 5o thread count on lugs for tuning... aka~ keeping your drum in tune for LONG concerts ~ which I have experienced first hand using both vintage Ludwig and DW snares.. } All in all, a Good Cylinder is a Good Cylinder. Anything from Stainless steel to Maple to Brass. Take your time and DON`T be afraid to actually experiment! ~ and a couple of DAYS to do it!!! THIS ALONE will get you ahead of the game. It sometimes takes more than an hour or even days of coming back to it, trying something new, etc.. Just don`t make the mistake of thinking its the shell. ~Actually, for Wood shells, Just strip the heads, take 2OOO grit sand paper and literally feather the bearing edges to make them powder smooth (do Not dig into them unless its a way cheap drum that Needs some leveling (and obviously talking about wood snares here.. Lol. Unless it`s made by Radio Shack, most metal snare drum shells should be level where it counts, at the very least ((Save of course for where the snare beds are slightly recessed for the snare wires.} IT CAN BE DONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Take Your Time! If you are New to tuning, hope this helped a little. Cheers Rythmsters!!!!!
I have been focusing so much on my drum tuning these days .Always seeking the perfect tone for my drums but especially my snares drums . I really enjoyed your tutorial and thank you for sharing.
Good video ... Remember the lower head is a resonant head and therefore the thickness of that head effects the overall sound as well. Thin heads produce a crisp sound and Thick heads produce a dryer thicker sound...... The other effect is depth of the shell, which controls the attack of the drum overall. shallow shells will produce an instant reaction with the resonant head while deeper shells cause the air inside the shell to loose its impact capability with the resonant head, resulting in a different sound and vibration and usually a much lower tuning.
..................
Most people incorrectly adjust their snare tension, The proper method is to set the snare tension screw to 1/2 of its total distance, then leave the snare throw off in the on position and tighten the snare wires equal distance on each side of the drum One does not need pliers to do this, just tension by hand. The throw off should then move the snares away from the head and the tension should allow the snares to be tightened if needed.
Dialing in the tune of the snare - EXACTLY bro, you got that right! Every snare has its own unique tuning.
David Curtis Drumming
I was 13 when I began drumming. All my tuning was experimental. I remember one day trying to get that fat snare sound with a nice tone so I tried cranking the snare head up and lowering the batter head. Much to my surprise it worked! It never fails to this day. I also use an Evans HDD dry 2 ply head which removes the unwanted ring.
Absolutely bro - you nailed it. Bottom head is more important - then adjust top head for either tight, medium or low sounds. Keep groovin' all the best! DC
Thanks so much for this, it did me a world of good tonight. I know it's basic, but we don't always think of it.
Mrsilenciobackgammon bro thought there was a bug on my screen lol
Some good tips and advice. Thanks for the post.
Thanks for sharing. The bottom snare head has always been a question mark for me on the issue of how to properly tune. That helped me gain a little more perspective.
I've been sort of doing this for a while probably because of the Bonham thing. It's really good to see it before and after like this, very informative video.
I learned a trick to getting a nice sound from any snare. Tune the batter head to the tone you want with the end result imagined in your ears, then tune the reso head to either a half note in tone higher or lower than the batter head. It will help prevent the sound frequencies from clashing and causing unwanted snare buzz. If you have a great tone but a little buzz, loosen the lugs next to the snare wires another half to full note lower than the rest of the reso head. It sounds odd, and takes experimenting, but I truly and finally figured out how to get a good sound. I've been playing drums for 11 years, and it took me that long to figure it out. I have 3 snares, each a different size and material than the other, and I used this trick on each to get 3 different sounds to use with a variety of music styles.
Definitely depends on the sound you wanna go for. Cause at first I sort of liked the BEFORE, but as well love the AFTER. Awesome channel!
great video bro and love ur hair man 👌👌
Your videos are so educational
Great tip, as always. Do you have a video explaining how to build the acoustic panels shown in the back? Thank you.
That's a beautiful snare sound! I am going to try this on my Stage Custom Birch, which I am not really getting this kind of a sweet tone. Thanks for the video!
Thank you!! I've been seeing videos being posted about doing asymmetrical batter head tunings to alter tone, and I've been screaming at my monitor about how stupid the "wrinkle" technique is. Glad to see someone pay attention to the resonate head!
Yeah, I have tried the wrinkle technique and it works for bad sounding drums. I agree with that tehnique in that muffling affects the high freqs of the drum, and the wrinkle technique is a way to keep the high frequencies of the drum. Yeah, a ton of the sound is from that reso head.
Helpful.Thanks
I did it right now and now IT SOUNDS LIKE IT SHOULD !!! :)
Nice, I always love to hear feedback.
Great tip! Have you found any difference between that coated snare side head and the clear one? ...I'm running coated top and bottom for toms, kick and thinking of doing the same for the snare ('65 acrolite) ... Thank you.
Can I make a request for piano micing? I noticed you have one...the organ would also be interesting. Great videos by the way, always thorough, informative and nice visual style! Just so you know, I watch these videos mainly for entertainment...the information is useful for sure but for me its like watching a very specific interest TV show. The reason I say this is that I just like looking at and listening to gear and instruments, I imagine a lot of others are the same, we all just like seeing whats going on in the studio
Awesome dude. Thanks for hanging out here. Yeah, I can do one on piano. I've been meaning to do one, I just need to find a pianist.
I'm curious about the Bass Drum heads, size and mic you used. It sounds great.
My friend just returned my Pearl free-floating snare he had for many years and it sounds like a box . I'm going to see if the heads are loose. It shouldn't sound so dry - it's a great drum.
Thank you
It would really help to hear the pitches of the top and bottom heads. Muffling the top head while tapping near the edge of the bottom head to hear what pitch you have would be great. Doing the same thing with the batter head while muffling the bottom head would also be very helpful.
I've been binge watching all your videos, they've been extremely helpful! A quick question, what camera are you using?
Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camerma. I did a video about it a few months ago if you want to know more the details of lens and audio dialogue mics, etc.
Creative Sound Lab thanks I’ll check it out
It's not that one head is more important than the other, it's how both heads react with eachother... A good method I learned is to keep a tightness ratio of 1/3. 1 being the batter and 3 the reso. Watch tuning videos by Rob Brown for a good explanation. With that ratio you'll always get a good snappy crack, and you can always make minor adjustments to fine tune it.
good video~~what is your headphone??
What happens if I use a regular batter head as a side head? I'm thinking on buying a Renaissance (batter, not side). Either that or I'll just go with an Ambassador Hazy.
My actual batter is an Ambassador coated. I play jazz/rock but I wish a slightly thicker sound. What can you recc? Thanks!
I have been having alot of trouble with my 10" tom always sounding too high compared to my snare, and I have tried cranking my snare up to compensate. As a guitar player I find it difficult to find a good way to tune drums, there are so many ways to do it.
one tip i run across a lot is tuning the bottom head to timbale tightness and then the top head to either low or high pitch, i know the sound is very subjective but this tip seems to be the "industry " standard (whatever that means). anyway good video and hope to see more soon
Yeah it's pretty common for the bottom head to be tighter. I didn't realize I was doing it so much until I check it out myself.
The most significant effect to a snare is the approach of the drummer. I've seen great drummers take a bad sounding snare and crack the hell out of it to achieve a great sound. The "no rim" sound is different than the "rim-crack" sound and each takes or gives from the sound of the center hit of the snare. It's all subjective but the soft style of hit you gave the snare would sound horrendous in the hands of a pro drummer that is going to approach that thing based upon their given style. You compensate accordingly. I think in your example with your style, you got something that worked. I have a large vintage collection of snares, however I've been able to give a drummer any of them and tune and adjust to make them applicable as all of them. The drum is more times than not just a pacifier for them to gain their confidence in believing they are getting something I could have given them with anything. Tuning tricks are just that. I've seen snares with 2 lugs completely missing that sounded incredible, the engineer purposely had them removed because the unbalanced tuning provided the sound they wanted with little effort 90% of the time. Tuning mattered in that situation to get the baseline for the drummer that was coming. All in all...the drummer's approach and the style of head IS the sound more than the shell will ever be. It can't be compared or explained, just heard and maintained as best one can :-)
Spoken from a seasoned engineer. Although I will still try to find a way to explain it :)
Great video, how much difference is the moon gel making? Also any tips for not getting huge snare buzz from Hitting toms? But still getting a 'snarey' snare sound
It has a lot to do with the pitch of the high tom. Adjust the pitch and that'll solve most of your problems. The MoonGel helps to bring out the fundamental of the drum. Most of the time I'll go for a half of one.
Really nice ryan, have you tried the mashoff tuning trick yet? Its really nice. My proportions were different from his video, but its a cool trick!
Which one is the Mashoff, the wrinkle one?
Right on, yeah, I use it with one of my snares. A pork pie that has a crazy bad ring to it. Works like a charm but I wouldn't ever feel right about doing it for my other drums. It's like a great hack for bad snares, at least that's how I think of it.
Hey man. I really loved how you explained everything in the video and I learned a bunch. I had a question on your head choice for the snare side. What are you using and do you believe a coated on the bottom dampens and effects how the snare side operates?
The bottom is a Rennesance Snare side head. A thick bottom head, like a normal ambassador head, sounds terrible the time I tried it. I'm sure I could do more testing, but there is a reason a thin head works.
Creative Sound Lab ya I ran into the same problem, put a tom rezo on a snare lol I guess I was asking more about he coating of your rezo head. Does it make a difference?
Hey I have problem. When I tighten the resonance head to table top tight, my share wire doesn't touch the head at all resulting in bad snare wire ringing and sustain. Alternatively it touches the head when I detune the tension rods near the throw off and but plate.. could you drop in some suggestion.
3:00 Loose? It dangles like a wizards sleeve.
ahahah or jello pudding
Borat
Russ Wilson I love this comment
pwaahahahha!!!!!!!!!! Lmao! Thank you ... oh the tears,.. thank you.
scrotum type beat
Am I reading below that some use a batter head (new) on the snare side? Always wondered how that would work out. Do you get responsiveness with ghost noting and soft playing?
I don't think so, no. I've tried it (Because just as you I saw people talking about it) and it was absolutely terrible. Will have to test on other drums still.
I prefer the before sound :D
Hey! What's your take on snare wires? Do they make much difference and what do you prefer? I have a Brady baritone that has an ugly ring and I cannot seem to get rid of it. Any tips? I'm using a CS dot (Remo) on top and a snare side ambassador on bottom with pure sound wires. I'm about to sell this nice drum if I cannot get it right.
Some drums like to ring. I would try a remo Emporer coated and see if you like it. Snare wires help and cut down on buzzing when the drum isn't played, but sounds like your big issue is more about the drum construction and the bearing edge.
Not a drummer but always interesting to see how other instruments work. When you tune the two heads are you aiming to have them in unison or some other interval?
Depends. There is no right or wrong way, just opinions. It is my opinion that when the top head and bottom head are in unison then the drum is more resonate. I prefer my bottom head slightly higher than the top. I think it offers a little control and response. It also gives you room for attack and dynamics.
What mic is that? Is it an LDC? I've never seen anyone close mic a snare with a condenser before. I may have to try that.
What head are you using on the bottom? Is that the 6 1/2 inch 402? Looks it, but hard to see the depth. Imo, the best sounding snare, especially for the $. Well, at the end you mentioned Bonham, so I'm figuring it's the LM 402
Its a tama swingstar
i tightened my bottom head so tight it just ripped one day lol, its important to tighten it but be careful about over-tightening!
hi, im new to drums and im planning on buying my first set. would you mind giving me a recommendation for a good, cheap drumset?
Spend your money on the snare and cymbals. Snare go for Ludwig Acrolite and cymbals go for 80's zildjians.
I've tried different tuning ratios to get the best response, but it seems to sound thin and mostly snare wirely. Is the resonant head too thin or is it just in need of replacement?
It's hard to know without hearing it but it could be that the drum needs to be at a different pitch or change the heads.
Creative Sound Lab I think that I tried to remove too much ring (which was only a little bit ) it's a lot better now. I think that some of the issue is from too dry of a batter head? I tried tapping on all the heads the store had when I picked it up. They all sounded kinda pappery to me.
I crank the reso side way up, like table top tight and keep that batter at a medium tension. You'll get a nice thick snare sound with some crack.. Also try playing a rim shot on every backbeat, it will really add some life to the sound... Great video man, I love your channel.
Thanks Jeff!
hi ! do you know which batter drum head can i buy for a 14" marching snare? It is a traditional vintage snare not high tension
not real sure, but I'm sure Remo and Evans make something for that use. I know there is a company that makes goat skin heads as well.
ok thank you !!!!!
Thanks for the tip! I had my local guitar store tune my drums after trying to do it myself. Pretty sure he did the same thing with the snare. Is there a brand of heads you prefer? I had Remos on my kit but when I busted the bass drum resonant head he put on an Evans and it made a huge difference!
Yeah, I like Remo. Drums in general seem to have a little more life to them. For bass drum batter though, it pry doesn't matter. It could be that it did actually suit the kick drum, but most of the time I have noticed that Evans sound thicker sounding, and in turn, can sound too wet sounding. Remo Ambassador coated is what I use on about everything. Kick drum, it's remo powerstroke 3.
creativesoundlab I'm so new to this that I'm not quite sure if the issue I had was tuning or if the evans head just suites my drums better. I have a remo power stroke 3 on my batter side and I think it was an ambassador coated on the resonant side? But I ripped the hole in it and the guy at the music store didn't want to have to cut a new hole, so he went with the evans with a hole in it already. Anyway... lots to learn!
Yeah, evans makes some great bass drum heads that do what the powerstroke 3 can't do. The EMAD is really great on the batter side for it's attack for hard rock. They are no slouch for sure. I think for a resonant head, it doesn't really matter so much, as long as you have something on there and there's a hole for the mic. If you can tell it made a big difference then that's what matters most.
Do you actually use a K2 for you snares or just for this video?
Just this video. Was experimenting.
Is that a coated head for a resonant side snare side ?
Nope Renaissance head.
Unless I missed it in the comments, why aren't the end clips of the snare wires centered on the bottom head? They are way off.
Ive been messing with my snare for a while and cant get a good sound out of it. I even got a digital drum tuner, which helped a bit. Would i get a better sound just replacing the heads, or by getting a whole new drum? Can a get a good snare sound with good heads on a cheap shell?
Well to explain a little about the drum in the video. Ebay has them between $50 - $80, and the top head is dated 6/19/13. It's almost three years old, and it was on another drum before this one. Really not the best situatoin and a cheep drum. So yes...you could totally get a good sound on a cheep drum, and even if the heads are old, but not dented and worn out. New heads will do wonders for any drum. When my friend gave me this drum, I bought it a new top and bottom head and new snare wires. It made a big difference. Personally my first choice is Remo ambassador coated for the top, and snare side, or rennesance snare side.
Make sure the bottom head is tight. So you get the nice attack. I use the exact heads he mentioned on my sonor snare and a Remo controlled sound on my grestch. Ambassador will give you the most tone and ring which is usually the way to go because by simply by putting a lil tape or Moongel you can always kill a lil tone but if you start with too thick of a head from the beginning you can't add tone. Evans equivalent would be a G1 coated but I've always gotten best results with Remo.
If you do go the quality route, the new Tama SLP snares sound as good as snares twice their price i keep hearing and they have all different she'll types. Wood or metal. A friend of my brothers has the maple one and it sounded great.
+creativesoundlab you do Remo ambassador coated for top AND snare side?
Just tune your bottom 4 or 5 times then your top rlly rlly high until you can't tune it anymore yw
Do you prefer a metal snare over wood? We had one laying around and messed with a few different heads but it sounded too tinny. I think for our recording we used the Evans HD dry which has some holes in it. Kind of a unique sound I guess but I like how you dialed that in.
I like them both. I think it's more about the design than the materials that I go after. I love the design of the 60's supraphonics and acrolites. I have a 70's supra and its been amazing. This drum is not the nicest drum, it's kind of cheep I'm sure, but I'm able to make it work. I've never tried the evans dry heads.
Nice. Those supraphonics record well. I have a sonor beech snare and a grestch aluminum USA 14x6.5. Love them both for different reasons.
Adjust top to feel and bottom to tone.
Very good. I've played drums since 1968, & the bottom head is indeed the key. I get best sound with bottom head tighter.
Thanks for the kind words!
In all of these videos I see on the subject, not one person ever mentions that you need to hit the rim and the snare at the same time to get whatever sound they're getting. (rimshot) Suppose you only hit the center of the drum? What will it sound like then? I watched a guy do rimshots in a bar one night. It irritated the hell out of me and everyone else in the room. Including his band.
I run a coated ambassador or diplomat on the bottom, cranked up and my snares kick major ass. Give it a try but use new heads. Don't use a beat up batter.
That's a renn snare side on the bottom there. I've thought about doing the regular coated like Bonham supposedly did, but haven't tried it yet.
Creative Sound Lab I'm not sure how often John Bonham did it. (Most) of what I hear sound like a real thin head but that's not to say I know anything. I am pretty sure Alex does it all the time but I never seem to get his sound when I use a coated head on the bottom. I believe Alex gets his sound more from muffling his batter head. It's been a while since I used a thin clear snare side so maybe I should give it another try now that I know a little more about tuning.
Creative Sound Lab Bonham used regular Ambassador or Diplomat Snare side not batter head.
A thin snare bottom gives the nice crispness attack from the snare wires. The thicker you go the more of that you lose and the more lows you bring in. You'll get a thuddy lower sound with a thicker bottom head. Good for a side snare tuned low but not s main snare imo unless you're into that sound or are playing mostly ballads.
The reason that the bottom head "falls out of tune" as you put it is because the head is so thin that it stretches over time...thereby losing tension.
By the way, do you mind if I ask what brand/model snare drum this is?
At the time I filmed this video, I used two drums a lot: If it's black, then it's a Premiere Olympic Mahagani. If it's steel, then it would have been Tama Swingstar. 5.5 inch deep on both drums.
Yep. It's a Swingstar. Now that you've said it, I recognize the lugs and the beads in the shell.
Can you put some rivets on the snare head on the top?
I'm sure they make a head with that on it. I'm not sure that it would have the sound you expect. I think Toca percussion put tambourine jingles on a snare head.
You should never be tuning a snare drum with muffling on it. If you want you add the muffling after. To me it seem like the snare side head was still a little looser than it should be.
Tama rockstar snare being used here? great snares by the way
Swingstar!
nice!
Glenn?
How tight is too tight on the bottom head? Cuz my bottom head is hella tight
You will know the resonant head is too tight when it breaks (this happened to me once). Otherwise, there is no clear rule about how tight you should tune it.
I have a ring coming from my snare drum when playing it , how do I get the ring out of the snare ?
A lot of it is the drum and how the shell comes in contact with the head. Try a thicker head, then try muffling.
After you've tuned your drum:
- repeatedly hit the drum with a stick at a normal playing volume
- focus on the frequency of the ring that you are trying to reduce
- lightly place one or two fingers on the batter head at a random location
- if your ringing didn't go away or change as wanted, slowly move your fingers around the batter head
- once you find a spot that sounds better to you, place a piece of tape, or moon gel, or whatever type of dampener you wish, onto the head on that location
Just how I do it, I wind up with a couple small pieces on most drums. The tuning will drift as you play and the ringing frequencies will be affected by this, so if it seems to start ringing again, move the tape around and/or retune your drum. After you get good at it, it only takes about 30 seconds to find a good spot.
Half a slice of moon gel
why don't you give the bottom head a slight hit with the hand so that we ruffly know what the pitch is? that would have helped me a lot..
What is the bottom head in the video? It looks like a coat remo head...
sound really full
It's a REMO Renn head snare side.
Hi , great demo my friend! I just got a new Ludwig Superphonic snare and changed the snare side out for a coated Ambassador. It was terrible , with hardly any snare wire sound. Perhaps it was too thick? My biggest trouble seem to be tightening the snare wire properly. It is often too loose or too tight.
undergroundjohnny He doesn't use a coated ambassador; he uses a Renaissance Snare Side head. That may be the issue, that &/or the bottom head isn't tight enough.
@@sdvc49 Definitely the issue. lol
Good vid but this snare microfone sounds weird
I think it would be useful to mention the heads that you are using. The bottom head looks coated in the video? Is it? If so I think tha twould be very important to mention as most bottom side head are thin and clear.
It's either a hazy or a renn coating. I get similar results with a clear head too. The thickness is much more important, and all my snares are the "Snare" side thin type head.
mkay
was that a batter head on the reso side? never seen a resonant snare head like that before
Remo Renaissance Snare Side
bonhan did the opposite of this, i was told..... oh well good to try both!
Steel snare drums are so underrated🙄
where are your ghost notes? I can't hear them!
You meased up the audio editing. You used the same clips...
Everything is labeled so there is never any mismatching during editing. There was no audio editing by the way, only video editing. The first clip has a different sounding ring.
the snare is a cheap o 8 lug..a 10 lug will tune differant
Don’t care for the sound even after the adjustment.
I say...who cares?
What mic is that? Is it an LDC? I've never seen anyone close mic a snare with a condenser before. I may have to try that.