Elusive Glitches: The Dumb Case of the Sandship Boss Key in Skyward Sword [Solved]
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- Опубліковано 13 бер 2019
- The solution to this elusive glitch was figured out in May 2019 and involves performing Reverse BitMagic to either get rid of the lock in front of the captain's cabin, or set the scene flag to open up the boss door without the boss key. (These can be referenced from this scene flag spreadsheet: www.zeldaspeedruns.com/ss/BiT/...)
Live speedruns at / gymnast86
Twitter: / mrgymnast86
If you want to learn more about Skyward Sword, you can do so here: zeldaspeedruns.com/ss/
I made this video (and will hopefully make more) as a way of practicing video editing and basic photoshopping to present videos on speedrunning topics that I think are interesting. There are bigger projects/stories that I want to share about speedrunning related things, but I want to have the necessary skills to make them look as good as they can. So my hope is that I'll use much smaller topics as a way of practicing for the larger ones that may lie ahead. Any constructive criticism is appreciated.
Yes I know it's pronounced "Scervo", not "Screevo". English is hard and I'm sorry. - Ігри
i like this video
I do too
hey crow i also like this video
i like your videos too :)
me too
Same
This video has "wind waker barrier skip is impossible" energy.
Gym just found another skip in Sandship
@@-agrocupcake-1231 we can now set the captains cabin door to "open" which changes layers correctly
We can also probably just not fight the boss
@@KaneYork yeah, we can skip post bow sandship
@@KaneYork
mind explaining ? gymnast only said they can skip the 2nd half entirely , how do you set the door to open ? im interested
Can you please direct me to the info for this?
I swear speedrunning documentaries are one of the best things in UA-cam.
I KNOW
It’s free Netflix
Agreed
You should do videos like these more often! Pointing out current frustrating problems in the speed running communities could lead to natural puzzle solvers getting involved and finding out they love speed running. Not to mention it's just good content!
Not to mention how much that would benefit the community in their plight to lower speedrun times.
Linkus' wind waker hd glitch discovery videos are good too
Elusive Glitches: Anything useful in Spirit Tracks
^This, by God.
Never played that, explain.
@@Nosretep It's just a strangely well put-together game. Phantom Hourglass, its similarly designed cousin, has a couple of situational glitches to take advantage of, but nothing based on the engine that does anything. Fast forward to Spirit Tracks and you've got even fewer glitches - I only know of one, and it's useless.
@@Nosretep Yeah, what Beryl says. Spirit Tracks is so weirdly pristine that every speedrun category, to my knowledge, is functionally glitchless. Any% is lucky to be under five hours long, since you have to play the game almost exactly as intended.
@@Princess_Ruto So little to no glitches?
Only the speedrunning community would be mad at devs that DIDN'T leave in a huge glitch 😂
well, to be fair, that wouldn't be a glitch. The way it works now would be labeled "undefined behaviour" because the game should never be in that state. If it worked differently, it would be different "undefined behaviour".
As a software developer it makes me mad that this is the way it is implemented, because it looks like they used the layer concept, meant for something entirely different and used it here because it was "convenient". Those layers work "globally" (in a certain map) but are used to define local behaviour.
I know right? Like I watched this whole video just thinking wait you’re really this upset because you can’t cheat this one very specific part.... smh.
@@nucleartestrabbit stfu plz
@@nucleartestrabbit i don't think you understand speedrunning my man, the point isn't to cheat
@@nucleartestrabbit woa you know speedrunning so well beeg brain
“The Sandship is like an onion.” “It stinks?” “Ye- NO”
What if this means Sandship was the first dungeon they finalized, and later, they figured out how to handle loading based more on location than layers?
EDIT: To expand on why this might be, layers are like a very... Easy to code, but clunky method. So, as they developed the game, they later added a "smarter" method based on rooms, to manage lag. However, because the ship is compact, and restricted, changing layers worked well enough, and only some late additions used the newer "room loading" method
Oh! That would make a ton of sense. Clever thinking.
I think what's more likely is that it's a workaround due to the main gimmick of the Sandship. A lot of the Sandship involves parts where another part of it needs to be loaded, but none of the entities do. For instance, the puzzle when you get the bow where you need to hit the time crystal from inside the ship, which are on different layers. This probably allows them to segregate the chunks so they can load, e.g., the deck while you're in the ship, without loading the actors for various reasons (likely memory/processing related). Basically it allows them to easily distinguish between "can see this location" and "is in this location."
It could also be that multiple dungeons/areas are produced simultaneously by different teams. The team that handled this did it differently from others.
@@aghost2585 This seems pretty likely, the sandship has all that interconnection that other dungeons don't have, meaning they had to keep the rooms loaded, but if the enemies and everything were too, the game wouldn't be able to handle it.
It could also prevent bugs with the time manipulation. If all entities of "past" sandship were loaded all the time and then we changed the state to "present" sandship, it would add unnecessary processing time unloading all past entities and loading all present entities.
"Fire sanctuary? Naturally!"
- abbot and costello probably
1:03 Woah woah woah buddy, replace your batteries.
I never had that problem
Keith Pixton oh come on, you’ve got to have had that problem. How long have you had your wii remote?
I know from experience that a set of batteries still has at least 2 hours of life left when Fi first tells you to swap batteries.
@@noone6991 I don't recall her ever telling me that is what I mean, but it has been several years that I've had the game.
don't worry fi's on it.
Damn Gym, this was bloody great! Please make more videos like this, they’re super entertaining! (It also helps that you have a great voice to listen to!)
Yoshikage Kira What a wonderful duwang.
If Wind Waker's coveted Barrier Skip was found, this one can be found as well
or maybe you can just discover it then 4Head
If only people realized that skyward sword isn't dogshit
ThroatyChunk but they never will due to them not wanting to get off the couch and do the actual motions
A compilation of the numerous instances in Skyward Sword that show skips that would be possible if Link could jump just a little bit farther would be hilarious, in a sad sort of way.
Sounds to me like the same situation OoT has for Jabu. Whoever designed this dungeon knew exactly what was going on.
Nice! Skyward sword is one of my favorite Zelda games of all time. I may not be a speed runner, but I love this! Thanks for making this
But first, we need to talk about back-in-time warps.
you cant say its only a half back in time only a full back in time
bitwarp
This comment is Quad-Layer misaligned.
Also, actor loading is actor loading, you can't say it's only loading half.
I haven’t even played skyward sword but I found this incredibly interesting. Great video Gym!
Having recently speedran this game, this dungeon bothered me so much. This was a very helpful guide and video. Hopefully we'll find a true skip for this eventually.
Skyward Sword is my favorite game and I was actually just playing it yesterday. Great video though, really informative and entertaining. You do not realize the love I have for this game, subbed btw. Keep up the good work!
It feels so out of place after watching breath of the wild streams to hear the words “getting the bow”
funny how now with reverse bitmagic, the need for this skip isnt there anymore
sick
Great video, and keep up this format! It's really interesting, and your explanations did a great job since I'm not familiar with any of this but comprehend it.
Keep up this style of videos. I love to hear about the inner workings of a game!
Getting a grasp of how everything works and why we can or can't circumvent certain things is really interesting to get to know.
Love this style of videos! Speedrunning is great to watch, even better with commentary but learning about how you work on the games is so super interesting!
Interesting topic and great commentary. I would love seeing more like this. Many times, a speedrun gets more interesting to watch once you as a viewer understand what you can and can't do
Gym, this is amazing. Thank you. I love detailed videos about speed running tricks and glitches like this.
Man. Skyward Sword had the best and most complex use of motion for it's time yet. Breath of the wild was the only Zelda to make me feel challenged since, but still, the Legend of Zelda games overall needs to up their challenges
This video is really good, keep doing these they are so pleasant to watch !
Just want to say I'm super excited for more videos like this one. This type of content is what I live for :)
GYM! very few people i feel this way about, but you set a good example for speedrunners, video makers, content producers, and voice commentating. You seem to operate at an increadible high level and are able to keep your mind and speedrunning on track. shoutouts to you for being awesome, and I hope we can meet at GDQ someday :)
Who would win,a whole speedrunning community made of professionals in game breaking,or one layery boi?
Squid vs onion death battle?
This is the kind of content I most enjoy from your channel, great video
There's only so much detail you can explain during a stream. I'm excited to see more videos like this, speedrunning has always been fascinating to me but I lack the patience to read everything about it.
I really enjoyed this, you were what got me into Zelda speed running, and seeing stuff like this is amazing, helps me understand the runs more and makes me excited to try some of the (easier) strats when playing zelda for myself
I like this video! Awesome explanation.
This was really interesting, didn’t know about bit warp until now but man this was so cool to learn
as of now we’re pretty sure WE DID IT BOYS SANDSHIP IS DEAD
They don't even need to fight Tantalus and beat the dungeon anymore.
The ship has been sank. ╲⎝⧹╲⎝⧹ PogChamp ⧸⎠╱⧸⎠╱
Great vid! You did a great job of describing the annoying situation of this boss key. You just earned yourself a sub! :)
If these are the types of videos I can expect often from this channel, then you have gained a subscriber.
Im absolutely stunned by this video, gymnast :)
Even though I'm not particular in Skyward Sword Runs, you explained the problem of the skip so well, even I got to understand. Moreover it was so damn interesting and kinda funny to watch even though I am not that familiar with the game :0
Keep it up, I will continue supporting you^^
You are really good at these kind of video's gym! i actually enjoyed watching it, and understand every word you said :) Keep going!
I'd love to see more videos like this, super interesting!
I enjoyed this video, I think you should make more of these types of videos.. Well-edited videos
Very nice content gymnast! Thanks for making this.
For some reason while rewatching this, the item obtained sound when Link got the bow gave me a rush of endorphins. I don't know why.
loving the informative videos gym!
Very well made video. TOO well made. Suspiciously well-made.
Writing is great - everything flows logically. Clip selection was always appropriate.
I could probably edit a video like this in 2 days, IF I was already familiar with the footage. For context, LTT videos take me an average of 1.5 days to make. And that doesn't include script writing. So this isn't a simple video. It definitely took you more than 2 days. So my only concern is that this might have taken you a ridiculous amount of time to create. Soooo, how long DID it take?
My point is, that the longer you spend creating something, the more you get diminishing returns.
Just don't bite off more than you can chew, eh?
wowzers your the last person I would expect to be here, your an expert editorlol
The editing took about 6 days (after I finished recording the script) as I was learning a lot about how to make the edits I wanted on the fly. The most time consuming part of the process though was dumping the game footage upscaled to 1080p in Dolphin. Dolphin dumps slowly at high resolutions and only dumps .avi files (to my knowledge). It seems that premiere pro doesn't accept .avi files, so I had to take the footage, import it into a different editor that accepts .avi files, and then reprocess it as an .mp4 so that premiere would accept it.
@@j4k275 gymnast did some special narration for my barrier skip video when I asked him to explain fairy hover out loud. I knew the trick, but needed an audio explanation from a runner.
@@gymnast86 6 days for editing, at your skill level, is not bad at all. I was worried it had been a month or more.
And yes, ffmpeg could automate the avi conversion process. Then you just let it run overnight.
What do you mean about dolphin being slow? You're playing the game in real time, aren't you?
Taran Van Hemert no, when dumping at high quality the game runs at 5-7 fps on my computer but the dump process strings all the frames together at the correct rate in the final video.
Pretty good video! I hope you make more in the future!
I guess I speak for everyone when I say: WE WANT MORE ! Great informative video, please keep it up! :)
Hey gym it's me negi, I'd love to see more content like this. Upload at your leisure.
Excellent video Gym! 👏🏼
This subject matter is fresh and interesting. Explore more of it
Interesting video! I love hearing about the inner workings of games, haha.
This was amazing, please make more :)
First off: Fantastic video! Now to nitpick 4:18. I always pronounced Scervo as "skervo", as a portmanteau of 'scurvy' and 'servo'. You might have read a mistype there.
I think it's just pronounced the same as "servo". "scurvy" is pronounced as such because of the u after the c like in "curvy". But "ce" is a soft c.
great video Gym!!
"...boring puzzle-solving...", Oi, the Sandship is my favorite Zelda dungeon of all time, man
After three seconds I already know this video is well elaborated
Fantastic video. Just so you know, when I did Portal Done Pro a decade ago, I though, "Well, if you could remain OoB for each chamber in the game, then you could basically go from start to end of nearly every chamber instantly." Sure enough, several years later, they discovered a way to cause the next chamber to load while remaining OoB. So, don't give up hope.
My initial thought was... doing BiT from some other place in the game so you could obtain Layer 3. But, I don't know the mechanics of this game. I'm assuming you've checked what layers all previous save points are part of. Oh, if you perform a second BiT (using the save point in the boss key room), will it continue to persist the previous layer value?
This was my thought as well. I too am unfamiliar, but it seems like a BiT warp from Layer 3 would work. If this game uses loading zones behind doors like some other 3D zelda titles, you could search for a way to directly reach the loading zone and skip the boss key entirely.
That would require somehow loading a different scene on the title screen than Skyloft. BiT is glitch in the engine that the GC/Wii Zelda games run on, which allows you to gain control of Link on the title screen. Skyloft is the only option to BiT warp from, because it's the area that's loaded for the title screen, and attempting to leave it while in the title screen state crashes the game.
If you could find a way to make the game load a different map for the title screen, or reach the surface without the game crashing, that would be a good first step to solving this, however, that seems very unlikely to happen.
@@configchan1062 It sounds like most possible solutions would pretty much require an arbitrary code execution exploit, or a very convenient memory corruption exploit, to bypass Sandship's intended sequence. I mean, BiT-warping itself sounds like it's basically a very convenient memory corruption exploit already... But you'd need a more arbitrary one or one that specifically involves a layered map.
There's, of course, also the caveat that whatever exploits are found have to be quicker to execute than the intended path through the dungeon.
@@alicia9290 Considering Twilight Princess can break things so hard it lets one load Homebrew, I wonder if that could be a weakspot to allow Arbitrary Code Execution, similar to how the original Pokemon games were found to be so broken that you could, via hotswapping, execute arbitrary code in any Gameboy game you wanted
I really like how you‘re able to explain things - even if I don’t understand any of these...
awesome :-) love this, explained super well and it's really intriguing :-D
Good vid! Would love to see more.
Gymnast is my favorite speed runner ever since I saw him at gdq a few years back
Love these kinds of videos!
Very interesting video gym
Very well done! If I might add some constructive critisism the only thing you did incorrectly in this video with how well you detailed descriptions and all, is the mispronunciation of the mini-boss for this dungeon. The Mini-boss is a robot pirate with the name "Scervo" which is meant to be a punny combination of the words "Scurvy" and "Servo". Again, great video and I'd love to see more content like this. Def earned my subscription
Cool video! You should run Skyward Sword again! I always had fun watching that
i like watching videos like these to make myself feel confused, and boy this one did not dissapoint
Oh man, I'm digging that full render of the Sandship model at 4:11. Where has this been all my life?
What a high quality channel and video
This is probably a silly question cuz I’ve never ran SS, but is it possible to warp or clip into the Mini-boss/Bow room without using a key, so you can use the first small key to open the captains room?
I like this video.
From PointCrow's Twitch stream
Great video gym :)
The analysis of these issues amazes me. I think Zelda speedrunners could have brought the Apollo 13 crew back.
Very interesting to watch and learn.
My constructive criticism to you would be to put in background music in the video and maybe cutout the game audio. Usually having background music for a video like this is nice to have. I don’t know if this applies for every program but when I took Video Production, we used Premiere Pro and the volume format we followed was: Voiceover -6, Sound effects -12, & Music -18. Speaking of voiceover, you did quite a great job on it in this video. I didn’t hear any parts where it sounded like it was an obvious jump to a different take. Another thing I would suggest would be to use key framing where you basically make images on the screen move in a sequence that you create. It is a little difficult and a bit time consuming but it looks nice to have animations sometimes. Overall, I’d say you did a great job on making this video, Gym. Keep up the great work!
Good content, more like this please!
That low wiimote battery icon when you first showed the sand ship gave me flashbacks
Trust me every speedrunning community has something like this. But it's nice to know that you're not alone with these types of things.
Thanks from pointcrow stream!
Nice video, makes more sense now
I love vids like this. I need more.
“The boss key takes about 9 minutes after getting the bow” *me taking 3 days because I forgot how to start the engines underneath the sand ship and didn’t want to use the gamers guide* :’)
the sand ship is by far the most annoying dungeon for me.
Damn, SS looks pretty amazing through Dolphin. Gonna have to give it a go again one of these days.
PointCrow invasion, well done video as well!
Granted, I know nothing of Skyward Sword Speedruns, but would it be possible to bit warp into the Crew's side of the brig to save at least a few minutes?
if you could you still have to unload and reload the layer which raises another issues going through the engine won't work cause parts of the engine room could be actors needed to help link get to the crew which will be unloaded in this state and you also have to start up the engine which at this point you already went through the dungeon as normal and your just taking some unnecessary steps to get the key and you can't reload through the door on the other side of the boss door cause then you'll be back on the other side of the electric barrier back to square one. so trying bitmap warp into the cell with the crew to get the key is a no go
1:11 "master, the batteries in your wii remote are low."
Why does this look so much better? It's like HD!
Subbed. Please make more videos like this
I’ll catch a stream one of these days gym. Eventually
Your videos are so we'll made! Good job.
Great video!
You see, games are like onions. They have layers.
*D O N K E Y*
Cool stuff. Usually when a developer does something random like this there's probably a reason, so there might be some exploit they are trying to hide with this. Would be cool to ever see that.
if you somehow left the room and activated a different layer and died in a room in a different layer once when it restores you to the current save spot wouldn't it know to restore the appropriate layer? Or is responding after a death identical to loading a save?
Another strange thing about the Sandship is it's the only destination in the Sand Sea where you can't walk from the dock to the destination. As soon as you get off the boat you're on the ship, and as soon as you try to climb down the ladder, it puts you back on the boat. It almost seems like they didn't have time to get that part working smoothly.
And with Song of the Hero, Sandship plus Lanayru Sea is ignored altogether. How far this game has come in such a short amount of time.
To be honest, the fact that Skyward Sword refuses to break the way speenrunner's want should be a testament to how well it's programmed. At least in certain ways
oh yeah i was in the middle of a playthrough of that game last year... and was enjoying it. maybe i should pick it up again sometime.
Sick Vid!