The Gruesome Truth About Pavlov's Dogs (And How His Findings are Commonly Misinterpreted)
Вставка
- Опубліковано 21 вер 2024
- Get 60% OFF your first 4-bottle box www.brightcell.... Bright Cellars is the monthly wine club that matches you with wine that you’ll love. Get started by taking the taste palate quiz to see your personalized matches. Thanks to Bright Cellars for sponsoring today’s video!
Love content? Check out Simon's other UA-cam Channels:
Biographics: / @biographics
Geographics: / @geographicstravel
MegaProjects: / @megaprojects9649
SideProjects: / @sideprojects
Casual Criminalist: / @thecasualcriminalist
TopTenz: / toptenznet
Highlight History: / @highlighthistory
XPLRD: / @xplrd
Business Blaze: / @brainblaze6526
→Some of our favorites: • Featured
→Subscribe for new videos every day!
www.youtube.co...
This video is #sponsored by Bright Cellars.
Sources:
Thomas, Roger, Pavlov’s Dogs “Dripped Saliva at the Sound of a Bell” - Commentary on Littman on Pavlov-Bell, Psycoloquy, Volume 5, Issue 80, 1994, www.cogsci.ecs....
Littman, Richard, Bekhterev and Watson Rang Pavlov’s Bell: a Reply to Catania’s Query, Psycoloquy, Volume 5, Issue 49, 1994, www.cogsci.ecs....
Ivan Pavlov Biographical, The Novel Prize, www.nobelprize...
Butler-Bowdown, Tom, You have probably heard of Pavlov and his famous dogs, but who was he and what was his contribution to psychology? 50 Classics Series, www.butler-bowd...
Ivan Pavlov (1849-1936), Institute of Experimental Medicine, St. Petersburg, web.archive.or...
Specter, Michael, Drool: Ivan pavlov’s Real Quest, The New Yorker, November 17, 2014, www.newyorker....
Grimes, A.C, The Truth About Pavlov and His Dogs, Grunge, February 11, 2020, www.grunge.com...
Todes, Daniel, Ivan Pavlov in 22 Surprising Facts, Oxford University Press Blog, November 21, 2014, blog.oup.com/2...
Ivan Secherov, Russia InfoCentre, www.russia-ic.c...
Get 60% OFF your first 4-bottle box www.brightcellars.com/BRAINFOOD. Bright Cellars is the monthly wine club that matches you with wine that you’ll love. Get started by taking the taste palate quiz to see your personalized matches. Thanks to Bright Cellars for sponsoring today’s video!
Took your palate quiz and I think that thing is broken. I don't drink so I was wondering what type of wine I'd be recommended and of all the reds, whites, merlots, etc. it could have picked I ended up with an out of the box recommendation:
Red wine, in a bag, in a box.
Doesn't sound like something anyone should try lol
Do you know how long this code will be good for?
@@FnRenner Wow Karl, that's too bad. I signed up for them through Simon and I haven't gotten anything like that. Some were just OK and others I really liked. I did do the feedback and they sent more what I liked when I did.
77777775777y777u77i784777575777777777t7647677y667u757875747567775776777777tt77775656667757675766667657676675677776767776554767567757577776674574o74777777777777757777777777757567767775o77767677677677776776677777776777777776777777777777
Is this on the wrong channel, feels like this video should be on biographics 😅
There's an episode of Family Guy where Brian (the dog) uses a time machine to punch Pavlov in the face. Now you know why.
What, why Pavlov started unconsciously psychopathically hating dogs?
Just a punch in the face ? The dude continues to be lucky. Insults staling and lives and a highly intelligent dog travels in time and don’t bit him in the “cojones” or peek his eyes out: just hit him in the face.
He beat him with a bell until his brains spilled out
@@alexjeffery2411 that more like it.
@@alexjeffery2411 OK, I knew Brian did SOMETHING violent. I just wasn't sure what.
Schrodinger: Put a cat in a box with poison and made people guess if it was alive or dead
Actual Schrodinger: made a joke about putting a cat in a box with poison to illustrate what he thought was a mistake in quantum physics.
Pavlov: Rang a bell to make a doggo hungry
Actual Pavlov:
That's something interesting, in fact. Most people don't know that Schrodinger's Cat was a refutation
Schroedinger didn't do that, though. It was a thought experiment to "prove" the absurdity of quantum theory.
@@WobblesandBean ...
@@WobblesandBean Yes, that's what he said. Pay attention, please
Pavlov didn’t just experiment with dogs, he also used children, and yes there is actual film of his experiments, giving electric shocks to dogs to the point of extreme cruelty. It proved “learned response” but at the cost of huge trauma to both animals and children!
People fall a lot in Russia. Out of windows, down stairs, onto bullets.
Frozen rivers after falling into bullets, ala Rasputin... 😬
So does Hillary's hit list.
Gravity is strong there. Or the vodka.
@@tacticalcenter8658Sadly your claim doesn't correlate with the losers still breathing.
Go to any hospital and you hear the same story of patients "falling" onto things only to find them stuck inside their bodies... :P
So Pavlov didn’t use a bell for his experiments. I guess that’s why he won the No-bell prize
Fuking nice!
🤣
That’s a good one
Nice. ✌️
Get out 👉
I honestly learned a few things out of this, one of which is that the truth about the 'heroes' of any culture, country or pursuit is often sanitized for the protection of their status as hero....
@@nosywendigo592
Define cruel.
(Not literally I mean tell me what he did that they claim is cruel.)
@@castonyoung7514 obviously you didn't pay attention or you are a sycopath.
@@nosywendigo592 meh. Your example of dickens is pretty tame by today's standards... he's a goddamn writer, of course he's bound to be a major weirdo.
Only to the ignorant ones who don't care to be aware of such things
See also: the European settlers of North America, the founders of the United States
Pavlov: Dogs have their own temperaments and personalities.
Also Pavlov: [everything else in this video]
not surprising, seeing what he also did to human children.
I bet he’d crap himself if he saw the dogs today pushing buttons to speak with the intelligence of a two or three year old child.
I'd bet he wouldn't have been affected by such data. He was cruel to his core. However, are those dogs of which you speak of the youtube variety, or are you referring to actual scientific research? I' d love to see your sources.
@@troubledwaters7441 Just the ones I've seen on UA-cam. He discredited their intelligence so I thought he might crap himself having witnessed them same, but anything is possible I suppose. Lol
@@horseman1968 ever hear of the horse named cleaver hans? just cause an animal apears to comunicate in a video does not mean its real
yea. honestly his experiment isnt shocking. its basic dog training.
No he would likely point out how they are rigged and not at all accurate or true.
The irony that YT uses a bell to notify me about your videos is palpable.
wrong. bells have many uses - not to even mention that you can't touch irony(although you can touch iron)
hAHÀaaa
🤤
@@ericvantassell6809 I am currently enrobed in irony.🙂🤘
😂😂♥️😂
Simon: And are the reason why to most people, the name Pavlov...
Me: Don't do it. Don't you dare.
Simon: Rings a bell.
Me: Dammit.
Kind of reminds me at the end of the Rocky and Bullwinkle show the bad puns that would be at the end of it
BUHDUH BUM BUM TSSSS
I heard he starved the dogs but this is more horrifying than I expected.
Russian s seem to use dogs like rats 🐀 or monkeys
Yep we weren't even taught this grimness when I studied Psychology at college / what americans call 'high school'. The full truth should always be taught to older teens, no matter how gory it is, else you end up with softy snowflakes one end, bigots the other, being as wrongheaded as each other and weirdly similar in their lack of facts, logic, and critical thinking and social skills
@@scottessery100 No helpless animal should be subjected to cruel experiments ever.
Especially not an animal that looks at humans as a companion . The difference between a cow and a dog is that a dog will do anything to be by your side . A stray dog still recognizes a human . It’s a species that grew in evolution with it’s co dependence on humans . We wouldn’t have survived without dogs . We wouldn’t have hunted as well. Rodents would have over run us. They allowed us to trek across the cold .
It’s ridiculous to treat a dog as livestock . Cruel . Beyond . They are friends to humanity . What animal is going through bomb rubble looking for survivors ? Following your child’s scent through a forest to find a missing child ? What animal protects our livestock ? Dogs serve us so much . Even today . Military dogs , EMS dogs , it goes on and on.
If you and your dog are starving you die together you do not eat the dog while it’s alive .
Canines are not people. However, they should be used in medical experimentation with the least amount of pain possible.
Pavlov was born in 1849, not 1949.
Came down to see if anyone else noticed before I commented!
He was speaking British.
@@edmer68 Me too
@@edmer68 snap
Yea, I had to rewatch it a few times to see if I heard it correctly
Scientists still put fistulas in animals, there's cows out there with flaps that you can put your hand through, right into their stomachs. Doesn't seem to bother them unduly, weirdly enough. Historically, even humans have had them.
Humans still have them.
That's udderly crazy!
@@warface4881 Yup: ua-cam.com/video/b7TY9t0VBxU/v-deo.html
They use to have that on cows the D.O.E. had at the nevada test site. Experiment on them after the "bombs"
the difference is using them for the benefit of the animal versus abusing the animal.
So basically school courses have been wrong since decades. But the "story" is interesting enough to teachers that they just repeat it from one to the next. With none of them ever having stood still to consider the veracity and actually fact check the Pavlov story? That's wild.
Partly. I don’t think it’s useful to overanalyze the misdescription of the bell in this scenario as very meaningful since he used tuning forks as stimuli and his work directly lead to people using Bell’s to describe the same ideas that he propagated. What naturally happens in any field is that material gets condensed for the sake of brevity and time, so extra things get attributed to Pavlov purely because he was the originator of one line of thought. Many times books don’t specifically attribute that to the person, but people naturally make the connection because they’re the only name mentioned. I think calling his work misinterpreted today is a bit of a stretch as a discussion of Pavlov is usually not linked to discussion of determinism or no determinism, although it was certainly misinterpreted by the scientists of the time. There’s also argument that they didn’t misinterpret him, but merely Interpreted his research differently which aren’t the same thing.
Also most teachers below a college level dont really chose what they teach, for the most part, just that kids have to know what in the materials they are given to teach. They have no real reason to look into everything to be sure that everything the books say is 100% accurate since they often have 30-180 copies of the same assignments to grade depending on the number of classes they teach. In addition to preparing their presentation for the material they are given.
A lot of books they would have access to had the same story they were telling. I bet it was the internet that brought all the books together that made this wide spread information. I bet most all books in a American library before this had the cleaned up version. How would they have known? How could they have imagined there was more? How could they have known it was mistranslated if they don't speak Russian? What if the original papers were never made available to other countries? You think the Soviets would have shared that info?
Well today I found out that half my psychology class was a lie
Poor dogs 😔
look at humans now our media convincing public to spend beyond their means..have bad credit do this impove credit and spend..then start cycle all over due to cant afford
How is it a lie, going over the principles his research alluded to is what’s important 💀
And animal research should be done correctly but the underlying thing is that animal testing is necessary
@@conormcgregorsbrokenleg9847 School education is based on his methods as I said he conditioned children as well as dogs. Skinner was another one..Psychology is a load of shit glad I quit.
I love that he kicked the guy down the stairs. I’m imagining him standing there with his arms spread out in a “come at me bro” stance after.
It's a funny feeling. You spend the earlier part of the video taking in how he treated animals, and thinking 'this guy sucks'. Then towards the end, you hear how he treated the secret police etc, and think 'this guy was awesome'. And oddly, both things are true...
Gruesome stuff, yes, but I do like the tossing downstairs of the 'party' guy.
Communist apparat "we believe you are harboring anti communist sympathizers!" Pavlov "get off my plane!" 😂
I agree with you on both.
Pavlov, the first "genius" to figure out that dogs have the ability to learn and anticipate things - he merely had to turn their stomachs inside out to do it.
I don't think he was the first person to figure that out.
@@castonyoung7514 you're right. we've been training dogs and other animals for thousands of years.
Well it was way deeper then that
I guess you weren't paying attention when he covered the specific details of the conditional response findings. Or maybe you're just way more brilliant. You should probably be writing books so that the rest of us can benefit from your insight.
There is no need to put "genius" in quote. He was one of the most influential scientist of all time. People were simply asshole by today's standard. Imagine there was a time when people think wiping out the whole earth (killing everyone and everything, including animals) because some people have sinned too much as reasonable, ethical, righteous?
Pavlov’s experiments on children were, IMO, worse than those performed on any animal. In fact a huge amount of the knowledge we have about behaviour, obedience, nature v nurture, etc was acquired through the work based around “experiments” that would never be allowed today. The work of Milgram (obedience), Watson (Little Albert experiment) and Bandura (Bobo doll experiment) to name but 3 of the most distasteful. But the knowledge gained through such experiments, even though cruel, is immense, does that make them acceptable??
well yes people need to die and suffer to advance our society to reduce the suffering of the many
There was a Star Trek Voyager episode about that dilemma. I think we should use knowledge we already have to help others, regardless of how it was obtained- HOWEVER that doesn't mean people should be allowed to cause whatever harm they want in the name of science.
Somehow people care about experimenting on dogs far more than experimenting on (non-volunteering) humans, which in these times were borderline commonplace...
@@mihan2d that's because people are so detached from violence nowadays that they do think it's worse on dogs
I’d say that it mainly makes it acceptable to use the knowledge and insights that were aquired seeing as the experiments can’t be undone. Though I do have to note that I am a criminology student, and there is just a LOT of research like this that is important to the field of criminology but that thankfully would not be approved by an ethics board today
I'm a simple subscriber: I hear bell, I watch video
And drool, too?
Simon makes you salivate.
😂😂
Hahaha touché
I see what you did there 😂
TFW when you realise that Laika (RIP) actually had it easy
Yes, at least she had a somewhat quicker death
Wow. I knew the schoolbook version was heavily sanitized. I know that the "dominion over the beasts" mindset was a lot stronger in the time period, but even by that standard, that's a whole level beyond merely unethical and cruel in the pursuit of knowledge.
you make it sound like things were worse back then. but the atrocities committed to our fellow earthlings both wild and domestic required to feed the insatiable, ever growing human population balloon and the industrial megacancer they compose are vastly worse than any trivial cruelties inflicted on our fellow earthlings that went on in first half of 20th c.
@@andy-the-gardener Most of the west has *declining* birthrates rn so thats just bullshit
@@stitchfinger7678 and the immigration will more than make up for it, merely siphoning some of the vast overshoot population of the third world, and continuing the exponetial growth in the west despite lower birth rates of the native populations, and encouraged by the corporate owned politicians. capitalism requires growth of population as well as the economy. otherwise it all collapses. fractional reserve banking requires lent out fiat money made up out of thin air to be paid back with interest which the human does by destroying the ecosystem with some lucrative business venture. but collapse will occur anyway when damage accrues and resources run out. population growth is a moot point anyway as even if the wests population wasnt increasing exponentially, its about 80 x over true carrying capacity. contrary to what most pesimists think, true carrying capacity is not the 1800 population anymore because of global warming - it is much lower. eventually there will be multiple bread basket failures, probably due to weather being locked in place by the increasingly stuck in place waves of the jet stream. or a total black swan event will happen that nobody anticipated like a canfield ocean. global warming can end civilization in many ways. so total collapse and die off is inevitable and will occur c2030 - 2050, as predicted by the limits to growth study. all signs are its actually started already. things are going to get really toasty after the first blue ocean event as the ice there is keeping things cool. the humans could do something rational and obvious like banning cars , allowing all forests to regrow and sterilize all of humanity (low hanging fruits actions) but they will do nothing. they would rather deny they are the problem cheer on their cleverness and book another holiday
@@andy-the-gardener Things were definitely worse back then.
@@andy-the-gardener You sound like a miserable person to be around with how much of a pessimist and doomer you are. Im waiting for you to prove your points.
Just a note on Negative Reinforcement; it doesn't mean the application of a noxious stimulus (electric shock). It's actually the removal of an unpleasant stimulus, negative in the sense means to subtract. Thought you should know, since we're talking about behaviour and misinterpretation 😏
As electric shock is positive punishment
Positive/negative is adding/removing stimulae
I'm waiting with bated breath to see his smart arse reply to that 😅
I've never heard of it described that way and now that I have it resonates clearly.
Also you don”t really speak of noxious or pleasant stimuli in behaviorism as it’s subjective. You can only say stimuli that increases or decreases a given behavior.
@@HeatherRottenberg SAY IT LOUDER FOR THOSE IN THE BACK
For anyone seriously upset by cruelty to animals.
Cruelty starts around 6:45.
8:51 to 10:45 is okay, but you'll want to be careful over the next minute or so.
Even though I knew it was coming, I still wasn't expecting the cruelty he displayed. Those poor, poor dogs.
He sounds like a brilliant man, but I can never be okay with what he did and how he did it.
He wasn't brilliant, he was sick. A torturer justified by science
A lot of things were like that sadly. All we can do is strive to do better with what we know.
Thanks. I am scared to watch, but the time stamps make me feel like I can be prepared. :/
I’m in intro right now… debating the watch at all
I thought something was wrong with Simon and then I realized this isn't Business Blaze.
My dog Molly was afraid of thunder. She would shake and be very anxious. Over time, she associated the sound of thunder with the sound of rain that usually coincided with the thunder. As a result, she became anxious and fearful merely at the sound of rain.
The telling of pavlovs berating against the state sounds like a Sam O’Nella video
i had mixed feelings about pavlov before, now they are finely blended
Well this was horrific and depressing.
Educational as well..
Battery farming dog saliva
Why wasn’t t that I n my a level biology book
@@scottessery100
Should have been a footnote in my psychology book.
"All education is horrific and depressing."
-- every Trump supporter.
"Gruesome truth" indeed. As much as I like this series, this is one episode that is just too disturbing. But it IS important to know as we should not forget the cruelty of the past, lest we end up repeating them. The disgust and horror at those past events is what held prevent them reoccurring.
I understand that some experimentation had to be done to progress medicine but some things, like what happened to these dogs, is too much.
Yup. We need to acknowledge the full truth. Not just the parts we like or 'can stomach'.
Ivan sekaroff: "every human action is simple mechanistic reflexes"
Me: "calm down Herbert West"
Fun fact: if you add up all the screen time from all of Simon's channels, you see that he hasn't been home to his wife and child in over 3 years.
Oof
Which is why he has only one child. Go home for a visit, Simon.
"Mummy? Tell me what Daddy's like in person?" xD
He keeps joking that Danny is locked in a basement, but it's really Simon
Simon Prime is (allegedly) a homebody. It's the army of replicants that do the recording of his videos. Allegedly.
I'm laughing as I imagine the Whistler house receiving their box of wine AND a box of one or other of the fantastic underwear on the same day. Also, wishing that Pavlov had done this horrible stuff as a self-experiment.
Ha haaa
A self experiment, really? After the first experiment that may or may not go well, what was he supposed to do? Die or become unable to practice studies again? We would have been stuck in the middle age if every one that tried something like this just used themselves.
Animal experiments are essential for our development as humans. Until one day this might not be necessary anymore.
@@cleitonfelipe2092
You sound like your defending him.
@@castonyoung7514 That's because I am. I do not enjoy the suffering of animals, especially dogs and cats, but at least we got some scientific knowledge from these experiments
"The 24th most cited psychologist of the 20th century" doesn't sound all that impressive, given that most people would be hard pressed to name even ten 20th century psychologists...
But he wasn't a psychologist, so it is impressive indeed.
I say it’s more impressive considering he’s one of the few psychologists that people can actually name.
I’d be happy if my family remember me 100 years after my death, let alone be the 24th most cited family member 😂🤣
And Dr. Ruth was like, #4....
It's pretty impressive given the qualifiers "most cited" "psychologist" and "24th". There are only a handful of "billionaires" so to be the "24th" wealthiest "billionaire" is pretty impressive, given that most people would be hard pressed to name ten billionaires.
Well, that one's brutal. I didn't learn about Pavlov in my school at all, though I had some very basic knowledge about who the man was, but ugh, these experiments were atrocious. Though I guess it was commonplace back then.
I swear your beard gets more and more beautiful every video Simon. Truly a masterpiece of facial topiary
It’s due to his products Beard Blaze.
Pavlov, Pavlov...
The name rings a bell.
Curiously this WAS taught completely at my school
Pavlov walks into a bar. The bell on the door rings and Pavlov says to himself "oh, I should feed the dogs."
This Pavlov guy sounds like a bit of a bell end.
Truth is you can be conditioned to respond a certain way to different sounds, perfect example is when your cell phone makes a noise you pick it up and respond based on the noise it makes
Thank you, Simon, for the warning. I can't bear to watch any cruelty to animals. I'm of the belief that those who are cruel to animals need to suffer the same treatment.
The video doesn't really *show* it, he just talks about it.
Just as a quick reality check, in the time of Pavlov and even much later similarly cruel experiments were often performed on non-volunteering humans. Puts things in context.
To say no living thing should be experimented on ever is to halt progress and innovation. On the same coin you could argue all food intake based on killing animals is never okay. Human history suggests the contrary
@@conormcgregorsbrokenleg9847 dude no one is saying that. As someone else put in another thread, the key word is “cruel”. Yes experimentation is necessary but everyone is saying cruel experiments should, in our advanced society, not exist. Things were different a long time ago but there is no excuse except for laziness for a society like ours.
Basically. You’re right, but you’re not talking about what we are.
@@buckettproductions6253 Rusty is pretty clearly saying that. He even stated his belief that people "suffer the same fate". He very clearly thinks there scientific progress shouldn't happen. He's probably a hypocrite as well, especially if he's ever killed a spider or if he eats meat.
Video starts @1:20
It is amazing how Pavlov discovered what ranchers and Farmers have known for over 10,000 years. That animals salivate when they hear their favorite food dish being banged around.
Pavlov submitted his research for the Nobel prize.
But he was disqualified when they found out he used a bell in his studies.
So he was awarded the prize on his work on the physiology of digestion instead because he didn't use a bell in those experiments.
sorry, what? you did catch the part in *this very video* wher Simon clarifies that a bell was never actually used, right? and even then, why the heck would a fucking *bell* disqualify you?
Because it is a Nobel prize? No bell?
@@johngay8416 That thud you just heard was my skull splitting my desk in two.
Well, I can't say I wasn't warned! Utterly disgusting, and yet fascinating. On the one hand a man seemingly devoid of empathy for lesser animals, yet on the other one who championed the individual and how we could rise above oppression to be free.
He conducted the same experiments on orphans and homeless children. With all the surgeries and stuff. And then put them out back on the street afterwards. With no follow-ups whatsoever. In most cases there is also no mention whether the surgical modifications were reversed.
@@miriam3848 Bloody hell. Perhaps a psychopath then, who rather than seeing and fighting for something noble and beautiful, railed against the idea of control as it applied to himself. Still, even if such control can be brought to bear on the majority, such psychological conditioning is not 100% effective. Look to the last 18 months. A small percentage in spite of all attempts at manipulation have not conformed. And how hated they are for this by those who capitulated.
@@miriam3848 perhaps another example of man's evil salvaged for good?
Pavlov's war against anything religious imply his belief more than his disbelief. It also allowed him to Embrace cruelty.
It is easy to see why so many cultures believe evil spirits can possess people. It is easier to believe an evil spirit has possessed someone, than to accept a civilized, intelligent man can be sadistic.
@@vaughanstarr3725 apt description.
Something similar here but mixed with a claustrophobia like reaction to in person contact. Funny enough, folks don't agree with my disgust in humanity with it's paranoid need to control or destroy.
@@vaughanstarr3725 no wonder he considered consciousness and free will a myth, the man's a fucking monster
If Pavlov would've just waited a few years, he wouldn't have had to do his conditioning experiment, as anyone with a dog or Cat as a pet knows, they come a'runnin at the sound of the can opening, or the shake of the bag of treats, or even the opening of the cabinet... my pets always did that after about 6 months, and now they also come runnin any time I take out bread and cold cuts for a sandwich---the sounds of the bags opening is DING DING DING, im getting turkey or ham or roast beef scraps!
I needed this happy post after watching that. :(
@@AmyAndThePup i know, so sad right? People just gave wayyy less of a fuck about animal cruelty back then...
Ps, the reason my name here on YT is "MAsterr" is cuz of the Jedi lol... my buddy runs a UA-cam page, and I was originally Misterr Serch, but after talking to and making friends with commenters on his page and "arguing" with people over jedi vs sith, they playfully suggested I change to Masterr since I'm a Jedi backer...and so I changed it, to MA to emphasize the change from mister to master lol... just thought a LOSTJEDI should know that 🤣
The famous experiments show them having an unconscious reaction, salivating, in response to a stimulus. That's classical conditioning. The pets coming running is operant conditioning because they are choosing to come running.
This brings up a good talking point: human morality vs. human advancement. How far are we willing to go in order to advance our species?
For a few, ...any and all.
I could have never been a scientist in the cruel days, doing anything close to what he did.
For me, not that far, for damn sure. Makes me feel sick.
We are too concerned if they could and didn't stop to think if they should...
@2:24 Thanks for the warning. As a dog owner who's trigger is animal cruelty, I think this episode would likely have broken me.
"Calmly and rationally, kick the agent down the stairs"
The man is a legend!
School bell is actually a form of pevlovs dog it psychologically causes you to forget the lessons of the previous class for the new as your not given time to covert what is learned and forced into a new subject.
I wonder if he's sharing a cell in Hell with Josef Mengale?
*student talked out loud*
Pavlov: MY RAGE IS UNTETHERED AND IT KNOWS NO BOUNDS
Well, damn... can't think of him the same way anymore.
Good.
You were thinking of him at all? What for even.
He's just a single drop in the sea throughout history of this sort of stuff.
A very disturbing man but a brilliant scientific mind. I always struggled with figuring out how I felt about Pavlov. I can't help but admire his work and methodology but I am horrified by it all the same.
As a Christian, I'm comforted in the belief that all those derggos are in a better place, and Pavlov is suffering every thing he did to them for eternity
Um, you think Christianity teaches that dogs have souls and go to heaven? I’ve heard of that movie but never seen that in any Christian scripture…?
Somehow I'm not surprised that the real story was truely gruesome, which is par for the course whenever science is the subject in question
So, my neighbor says to me the other day 'You know. Not everything they teach in school is true" so I thought we were going to have a real conversation and I said "Ain't that the tru..." when he went on to say, "The real reason the sky is blue is because it's water." "The sky is water?" I asked him. "That's right. Just one of the many things they lied to us about in school." "Gotta go," said I, backing into my garage and hitting the door closer posthaste. We were not going to have a real conversation after all. damn.
@@eleanoraquitaine2966 To be fair there is a degree of moisture in the sky, which I'm sure has some effect on the refraction of light...but...yeah...I doubt that's what you're neighbor was referring to. Good luck living next to that.
@@brye687 They stay inside all the time, focused on home schooling their three little ones who aren't allowed outside. And when he does come outside (the wife's not allowed out either but the hubby comes out once in a while), he always tries to engage me in conversation if I'm out there and it's always some kind of conspiracy theory stuff. He's very intent on converting me. Very. He has no chance whatsoever, especially when he starts conversations with crazy shlt that makes me run backwards and close the garage door. I worry about his wife and children.
@@eleanoraquitaine2966 well if the sky is water....why dont we have gills?
@@mattkrieger3428 Good question. Truth be told, as soon as I closed the garage door, I thought of all these questions I should have asked him. Yours would definitely be on the list.
Hell of a pun, groan.....cheers.
Yeah...I peed a little
[slow clapper]
I wonder - could the idiom "rings a bell" related to the operant conditioning experiments? This may be one of the greatest puns ever
That oh-so-subtle "Click the bell for notifications"-type reminder when you were discussing the emergence of the bell story was a nice touch. Any data on how well it worked?
So Pavlov was a monster; I did not know that.
What's monstrous about killing dogs? Do you consider butchers monsters too? What about fisherman?
Its like an extra biographics for the day!
Got an ad for pet food right around the 8 minute mark when the mention of the minced meat the poor factory dogs were "fed" came up. That was weird, but I guess relevant? Or I don't know, messed up? One of the two, or maybe both.
Why does everyone treat me like Pavlov's dog when I'm actually Schrodinger's cats?
🤦♂️
🤣😂
I guess you don't get observed very often.
i'm Simon's cat
I'm Maxwell's Demon which is just a cooler name.
I can feel Simon wanting to let go a "really Danny" after that "rings a bell joke"
I literally cannot force myself to finish this video. I have watched Whistler do videos of torture, serial killers and plauge, but this is the first video that has physically made me ill. I have to go hug my doggo now. I would say good job, Simon, but I don't want you to do this to me again.
Remember always, Simon says it best, the past is the worst! I hugged my little guy through it too.
@@aceofspadess4945 not only did I hug the fuzz, I bought him a bacon cheeseburger and spent half an hour apologising for the entire human race. Pavlov traumatized me. He is on the short list of creatures I wish I could reserect, just to kill them slowly.
“NOOO NOT THE LE WOOFER DOGGO MLEM MLEM BOI!!! NOOOOOOOOO NOT THE LE LONGBOI BARKER SNOOTER PUPPERONI PUPPER NOOOOOOOO UR DOIN ME A HECKIN FRIGHTEN BY KILLING THE BLEPPER DOGGER BORKER CHONKER FLOOFER I AM BAMBOOZLED“
@@bossschmutzfink9865 I have no idea what you just said. The only word I could make out was frighten. Let me be clear. Human depravity does not frighten me. It makes me Angry to the point of nausea when practiced on the defencless. Pavlov shamed humanity, he did not advance it.
Wait... am I watching Business Blaze?! The lines "Pavlove proceeded to calmly and rationally kick said agent down the stairs. Whether Pavlove was astoundingly brave or, being well in to his 70's, had zero f**** to give we shall never know. But while a man with less Kremlin sized balls..."
I mean no real criticism, that was just an epic way to say it! Worthy of the Blaze!
You think the “Pavlov’s Dogs” experiments were bad? You should learn about the “Pavlov’s CHILDREN” experiments!
Aka little albert
Right?! I was surprised he didn't mention it!
What a monster. I'm no longer proud of using him as a reference.
For that matter, try Edison's experiments with electricity, he literally executed an elephant because of his jealousy (he was jealous of Tesla's success with harnessing electric from water and it being AC (Alternating Current)) and he also executed prisoners to show his DC (direct current) (battery power)was superior, only he was using AC power which strengthened the case for Tesla's way of electric ironically.
@@mystikarain It did make for a great musical episode of Bob's Burgers though, lol. Poor Topsy.
I dunno. He rejected the ideas of communism and was brave enough to kick an agent down the stairs during the reign of Stalin.
History’s greats are not one side or the other but a mix of both.
You shouldn't be using him as a positive reference in a treatise on morality, but he is still a great scientist so referencing his scientific work in a scientific paper is fine.
you will soon have no references left
none of us are free of sin
I already knew about Pavlov's nightmarish experiments so I was reluctant to watch this, but of course, I had to. I think it says more about human psychopathy than anything else. Still, it did take "Kremlin sized balls" to kick that Russian agent down the stairs.
Pavlov does not seem to be a psychopath, just as a massive asshole and a good scientist.
He was born in 1949 but experimented in 1901? So the real truth is he was a time traveler?
I have heard and read many many disturbing things however I've never felt any significant reaction. Hearing how he cut into those poor made me feel physically ill
Every time a dog salivates, Pavlov rings a bell.
Finally, a good explanation of how Pavlov did things for psychology and science
And fame and recognition with no regard for the animals he tortured.
@@eleanoraquitaine2966 Is it fame is he's been dead for a hundred years? What does that benefit him?
@@stitchfinger7678 omg
I appreciate you providing sources 🔥💯
The fact that the word vivisection exists wholly disputes the definition of humane.
if humane was inhuman than inhuman would be humane, linguistically. But I get where you were going with it.
The fact that the word vivisection exists wholly disputes the existence of a sentient omnipotent benevolence.
@@russellzauner many things are evidence against a sentient omnipotent benevolence
@@russellzauner I'm saying Human should not be the basis for the word Humane if words like vivisection exist pp.
@@SusanWillful Considering the term is meant for animals, distinctly not humans, I'm not sure how this stacks up. The better argument is that we shouldn't apply humane to things that aren't human in the first place.
This is in no way condoning the abhorrent practices committed by Pavlov on animals, but that is animal cruelty, not inhumane.
The best example I can give is that a vivisection on a person would be inhumane, but a vivisection on a dog would be animal cruelty.
This does nothing to reduce or diminish the definition of humane, other than the obvious that the definition shouldn't include application to anything other than a human being, being compassionate towards a dog isn't being humane, it's being compassionate towards a dog, unfortunately the current definition was extended outside of humans for some unknown reason, but the basis of the definition is still valid, as it is clearly derived from the word human in the first place and was never intended to be extended outside of that scope.
Most animals aren't humans, although humans are animals.
I always wanted to get a cat and call it Pavlov. I'd set up a signal/bell system and whenever the cat set it off, I'd come with some food.
Made the mistake of eating while watching, needless to say it quickly killed my appetite
Oh, that exit pun was painful!
As was the ad for dog food that the YT ether inserted....
I like to think that he just no longer gave a shit.
I'm shocked. Pavlov was a hero for me because of his discovery of classical conditioning. In dog training Pavlov is always sitting on your shoulders. I did't know that he was such a torturer. Thank you for your research.
I make my own wine. I'd suggest other people get into making their own too before ordering it online. Costs maybe 2 dollars a bottle for the best wine you'll ever drink.
Doesn't wine take years to ferment?
@@benthomason3307 nah it only takes between 2 weeks and a month. Very easy to make as well. U can get kits for 60 bucks (makes 30 bottles) at wine n beer stores. And many will even make it for you for an extra 5 bucks or so. I usually make the stuff that tastes more like fruit juice but if you like wine that tastes like wine you have really good options for that as well. I'd definitely reccomend more people try it out. I always have a full rack of wine and I havent been to the liquor store in ages.
@@Michael-bc3es I wonder if you could experiment and create your own entirely new _type_ of booze. "here we have wine, we have whiskey, we have Vodka, and we have michael juice."
@@benthomason3307 my brother makes recipes and leases them to the local distillery and makes a royalty off every can sold. But I just make stuff go drink for me lol.
@@Michael-bc3es neat!
Great video - the only thing that I found really annoying was the choice to line up a light source almost directly behind Simon's head, so that as he moved, I was randomly getting bright light (based on the contrast) right where I was looking. As someone who can get migraines from that sort of thing, really not appreciated.
Upon watching this episode I started salivating uncontrollably.
Treat time.
As a Russian, I'm sorry, but I have to say this. You pronounced, "звонок" completely wrong. It's closer to, "zvonOk", and the first O is pronounced closer to an A. Other than that, I really enjoyed the video, it was very educating.
He warned me, but I was all "Na I'll be right mate".... Nope I was not alright. Had to stop watching at 7 mins.
I watched to the end... _damn_ my morbid curiosity. I'll never think of Pavlov the same way again...
You got farther than I did.
That's why you can feel drunk despite drinking non-alcoholic beer: Your body recognizes the taste of beer and it "expects" signs of drunkenness to appear, not knowing that this won't happen if the person has no idea that there is no alcohol in the beer. And the pure expectation already leads to some effects that alcohol will usually cause. Drug addicts also know this effect, starting to feel slightly high already when just preparing drug intake.
Couldn’t finish this one. Animal lovers I suggest moving on to one of Simons other fantastic videos.
Or at least don't watch it while eating...
I know. I watched, skimming the worst parts as best I could, but it horrifies me, and I'm crying inside for those poor sweet dogs. How unspeakably awful.
Wow, I really wish I didn't know this.
He was definitly not a dog lover...
Okay yes he was insufferable person and his experiments were morally dubious at best, but can we just talk about how when Stalin came to intimidate him, he kicked the fucker down a flight of stairs at age 70?
This is right up here with the legend of Archimedes' last words basically amounting to telling the scary Roman soldier about to stab him to get the fuck out of his lab.
Had to stop watching this. Too cruel.
This was such an amazing episode!
The shocking, gruesome truths about Pavlov's dogs.....#4 will SHOCK you!! 😉
Every time I see one of your videos I salivate at the opportunity for new perspectives and idea.
7:00 I saw a tiny ant walking on the screen and went to squish it and realized it wasn’t on my end. 🤣
It’s right below the dog’s ears in the picture.
Poor thing...hope it didn’t suffer too much from the experiments performed.
Standards back then were very crude if nonexistent. 🐶
Pavlov was an absolute monster. Worthy not to be called a person. But the value of his research cannot be disputed. Scientific advancement pays no homage to morality.
The past was the worst
Don't be so sure that the worst is not yet to come.
I do not think that the past finally dies rather endlessly repeats itself
Don't know if you've been out lately but the present ain't no picnic right now... 😐
Wait.... they don’t teach this in schools? What kind of schools has the world made? I’m Canadian, and we learned all the juicy bits of gruesome truth. And when the curriculum was outdated, and flat out incorrect, shout out to my one time Science teacher Mr. G (full name not put for privacy) who I constantly pissed off by raising my hand to correct him, until he one day asked me to teach the class, obviously as a punishment, but I FRIGGIN DID IT ANYWAY, and despite my normal social anxiety, I LOVED IT. It was long enough ago and I forget what it was about, but the textbooks were incorrect. Oh, and, despite the “cruelty” witnessed in Pavlov’s experiments, which suffice to say I don’t consider cruelty, while barbaric in their lack of empathy, they served to further science greatly. Science is controlled heavily in current times, and with heavy restrictions upon the practice, and keeping them humane, achieving greater understanding is slow going, stagnant. Much of modern science, medical and otherwise, stems from the past atrocities of less empathetic men and women. Some were even serial killers. There is a reason executioners operated as doctors more often than executioners.
15:33 Nicely put.
FOR GAWDSAKE, THAT’S NOT NEGATIVE REINFORCEMENT!! Reinforcement always makes a behavior more likely to happen again. When you take something away from an organism hoping for this effect, that is negative reinforcement. For example, if your baby throws a fit every time you try to feed her peas, and you finally give up and throw the peas in the trash, you have engaged in negative reinforcement for her fit throwing behavior. In other words, you took something away from her and that act is going to make her behavior more likely to happen again in the future.
In your description of Pavlov‘s work, you talked about giving electric shocks to the animals. That is not negative reinforcement. In psychology that is referred to as “positive punishment.“ In this case, positive does not mean “good or pleasant.“ It means “to give.“ And, if the thing you were giving to the animal results in its behavior being less likely in the future, that is called positive punishment.
Moreover, that’s not even classical conditioning. These are the components of operant conditioning, and our understanding of them was perfected by BF Skinner, not by Pavlov.
If you were going to make a video that purports to tell the “gruesome truth about Pavlov‘s dogs,“ you should probably at least know what you’re talking about.