They're importing keyboards straight from china either from OEM or well known brands like aula, feker, cidoo, etc. And getting a replacement is quite hard since you need to go to the same chinese store again and order more batches again. That's why people are saying that their customer services are bad. There's also some brands that they're importing that's pretty well known for QC issues (even there) like aula and ajazz or horrible software like feker where in some instances that their software could bricked their keyboard. And that's also the reason why people are saying that they're always getting defects and horrible QC issues on their keyboard. Do mind that i'm not defending epomaker at all, i'm just saying that there're risks from importing keyboards straight from there even without buying from epomaker. It's really the thing you'd know if you're already deep in the community or have a guy who often imports stuff from there.
It is important to remember for any new builders: never put your switches into the board without supporting the hot swap sockets on the other side of the pcb. This means don’t assemble the board inside the case. Build on top of a solid surface like a table or mat. The risk is breaking hotswap sockets that are not meant to take that tension.
oop, just built one the other day for the first time and didn't take it apart. didn't know that but mine seemed to hold up fine (TH80 pro) and everything seems to still work. If it wasn't going in easily i put the switch to the side or tried it in a diff slot, never forced any too hard.
While I would suggest the same on custom boards, there are boards that you can not easily take the case apart. The Keychron K10 is a good example of this. It's a hot swappable board where you can't easily take the case apart.
Why would you go without the function keys? What makes you think that? They're more accessible here than on a full size keyboard. FN + the number row versus having to move your entire hand forward.
I’m not using a standard staggered keyboard layout, but I have an embedded number pad and embedded function keys following the same pattern as the number pad under my right hand with a simple press of a key with my left hand. Layers. You know what they are, you just know it under a different context. Shift is a momentary layer switch that puts your numbers into Symbol mode and your lower-case letters into Upper Case mode. Caps Lock is a layer toggle that puts your letters all into Upper Case mode. Number Lock toggles the number pad between numeric input and a navigation cluster. It’s the same as layers. With QMK you can give your home row keys multiple functions: tap for key input, tap and hold for a modifier function (Shift, Ctrl, Alt, Super, Fn; mirrored under both the left and right hand) so your hands can move even less. But I also get that change is hard and it can be annoying if you get one set of behaviors on your laptop keyboard (there are ways to get around this) versus your desktop keyboard.
People like this always make me wonder if they also complain about how they don't have any capital keys on their keyboard. "Why is it all lowercase?!" Coworker: "Haha nice joke keyboard, you can't hit any function keys" Me: F4 repeat last actions in excel. Coworker: o_O
@@blackraen Talk about exaggeration. I've used computers since elementary school, but never had a keyboard without F keys. I actually learned from this video that you can use the function key+number instead. Even so it turns a bunch of commands into three button presses.
@@ivanheffner2587 I have to ask... why would one want to force themselves to slow down with a tap-and-hold modifier? That seems like the worst of both worlds.
@@MoistCroutonI think the issue is that LMG expects most of their viewers to be… uh.. “sophisticated”(?) enough to understand the difference of a sponsor-only unboxing channel like Short Circuit where all their (genuine) opinions are strongly underlined by the direct sponsorship, versus the LTT channel where they do actual informative videos (even though some of the information may be functionally useless, like learning how many frames you can get out of City: Skylines 2 on a Threadripper pro 7000 with sub-zero cooling) If the viewer base demographic for LMG mirrored that of the general population, you could argue that it is a bit insincere to take advantage of their goodwill and use their likeness in superficial sponsored-unboxings without making the scope of the videos very clear at the starts, but I don’t think LTT has too many viewers that might easily forget what a sponsored unboxing channel means as far as depth and discussion goes Then again, you do always see certain comment chains near the top criticising any video on this channel for being sponsored drivel, shilling, or whatever of that sort, and if people point out what this channel is then they’re met with “well that doesn’t make it any better” or some deflection like that, so I guess they should start putting more explicit disclaimers at the start of each video…
One question is missing: Why are they mostly 65/75%? I would love to have a full size Keyboard in that quality. I have mostly to do with numbers and a Numberpad is always missing :(
I have the Keychron Q6 with the knob and it's 100%. Best keyboard I've ever used straight out of the box although I did do some modding. Went with the original Q6 since I have no need for a wireless keyboard at my desk.
@@user-lv6rn9cf8m I understand it works for some people but it won't make sense for someone left handed. Keyboards have certain layouts for a reason. I'm ambidextrous and use the mouse with my right hand but I would love a full size layout with the numpad, ins, del, page up, page down, etc was on the left side of the board Edit: sorry I just realized you said separate numpad. My left side right side shit makes no sense now😂 my apologies
I'll second the recommendation for a Keychron. They aren't the only company that makes a good fullsize these days, but theirs is probably the only one that's consistently available.
I like the 96% format, I get a numpad and most if not all (depends on model) the extra function keys while also reducing the wasted space above the arrow keys.
What I don’t get, is why there are no more full size, integrated palm rest keyboards with extra/macro keys, I happen to have a big L shaped desk so I don’t mind the space, I’m still using a 24 year old PS/2 membrane HP keyboard just because it came with a big fixed palm rest, it is very comfortable to type for extended periods. It also comes with a volume knob and a dedicated button to open the software for a dial-up connection 😂
I'm also hoping to find a really nice full size keyboard. I game, but I also do a lot of data capture and the numeric pad is just invaluable. No, I'm not going to move a separate one into place the whole time. I want something like these keyboards, but full size, no tiny 0 on the num pad, no 75/65 or smaller. Proper, full size. (And not costing $300+
I'm still clinging to my old Logitech G510 for the same reason. 3x18 macro keys, in-keyboard macro recorder, "game mode" switch that just disables the Windows key, integrated volume control, mute button, media keys, integrated screen and dedicated buttons for it... I literally just wish it was mechanical.
Nice high level tutorial! Epomaker had some questionable foo going on for a while as others have noted. However the past 18 months or so it seems like, to me, they have been making at least some strides to do better. The quality of their keyboards has definitely improved over the course of 2024. Hopefully they will continue to improve and many of the previous issues will continue to be addressed over time, but it's definitely going to take a bit to regain some of the lost trust.
I've found so many people that aren't into keyboards as a hobby love clicky switches. I used to like them as well. But after listening to hundreds of keyboards online, using clicky switches for an extended period of time, this went away. At least it did for me. I think this is probably a common thing to happen. Just something I've noticed.
Or the Advantage 360 if you want the key wells with Cherry MX type switches; a heavier, more solid feel; and and a vendor with decades of experience delivering products that can last more than a decade. Don’t get me wrong: I really like what Dygma has done with the Defy (column staggered rather than row staggered) with the expansive thumb clusters, advanced tenting kit, and triple-mode communication; but, I like some contours on my keyboard.
You guys should make a video showing examples of each type of "keyboard sound", while showing how to achieve each type of sound, a lot of people have no idea what is thock or creamy, although they will get it once they hear it.
So, there's been some errors in the video, things like the difference between case foam and plate foam, which Ploof got mixed up, but it's worth mentioning some people who watch the video know the difference. The Plate foam goes between the plate and the PCB along with the PE sheet and the PET sheet (in that order from top to bottom) and the case foam goes between the PCB and the bottom of the case. The Plate foam stops lateral sounds from the switches, the PE sheet and PET sheet sit on top of the PCB and the switches poke through them. They stop some sound from reflecting back while you type and the Case foam fills the empty space in the case and stops resonance from the inside of the case. Two more sound dampening measures that are common (but becoming less so as new keyboards implement new implementation of foams) is the tape mod, where you put layers of non-conductive painter's tape on the bottom of the PCB this is also to reflect specific frequencies of sound to make the sound "poppier" and the force break, when tape is applied to the frame of the case where the top and bottom meet (usually around the screw holes) and then is meant to stop the transfer of vibrations between the top and bottom case which can cause unpleasant tinging sounds. Check out my UA-cam Channel for some of my keyboard content if you thought that this was, at all, interesting, LOL.
at least you're not tape modding each key. I am still trying to figure out if i wanna drop a pad in the stem recess so it doesn't bottom out so hard on my leverless fightbox.
This video didn't answer ANY of my questions. I want to build a full size mechanical keyboard, but where do i start? How do i find a kit that suits me? What features should i generally look for (like qmk)? What are good brands? The video wasn't bad but the title just doesn't match what's in the video
Yeah the presentation was odd when SC is explicitly a sponsored-unboxing only channel. On the LTT channel, they did do a cursory glance over custom keyboards a while back (ua-cam.com/video/bBon6WwkdJE/v-deo.html), but it’s not superduper in depth and I’d recommend you look at multiple sources instead of relying solely on them for pointers
Is it weird that after Plouffe said echo and spring ping are sounds that not one wants I realized that I like the fact that my keyboard does that. I am not sure if that makes me weird or not in some way. But I like the bangs, thuds and sproings that I get when I am doing a nice writing session.
lol, and there's me still using the first Razer Chroma Black Widow RGB keyboard at work for almost a decade and still works fine with its clicky switches.
Literally just built an epomaker TH80 pro barebones KB the other day (my first barebones), it was fun to build and feels really nice. Wish i knew some of the controversy before buying it and supporting a supposedly sketchy brand but hopefully they can clean their rep up cause i do like the board I got.
There is both, and the one shown in this video is actually on the plate rather than the PCB. Most designer opt for plate cut as its easier compare to do cuts on PCB while designing the bus to go around it.
What the market needs atm is more thin keyboards since the only thin ones are the low profile ones but then you get different switches and keycaps which i dont want. We also need more flat keyboards since almost every single damn keyboard these days comes with a steep (to me) typing angle at 7 degrees or steeper. The only ones iv found so far that are both thin and flat compared to most boards are the varmilo ones but then you get meh tier quality with meh plastic, non via support and no hotswap and they are impossible to mod since everything is closed with plastic clips which you have to break or break something else on the keyboard to get inside it so the moddability is 0/10. The mid to high end market seems to be 95%: Metal case (with extra added internal weights to bring the keyboard from very heavy to why the fuck heavy), A 8 degree FIXED typing angle with no way to adjust feet etc, 2x the thickness that it actually needs to be (they need to make room for the extra weights and 1cm thick cast iron bottom i guess which i know isnt needed since i have looked at internals of slimmer models such as the ones from brands like varmilo). A super detailed etched panel that add lots of extra cost to the board HOWEVER ITS MOUNTED ON THE BOTTOM SO YOU CANT SEE IT ANYWAY (imagine paying for engravings on the bottom of your mousepad lol) But i guess instead of keyboars brands such as keychron make some kind of upgrade to the people who want something better than a vamilo keyboard they decide to make another version that is almost exactly like their allready existing ones so now they have 51 keyboards that fit the 95% mentioned above.
Appreciated this! The peripheral game is just something I don't understand, perhaps because I'm fairly new to not gaming on a laptop. With a laptop, I always bought based on performance and screen size; whatever I got for a keyboard (or speakers, or a webcam, or a mic) was what I got.
Feels like you need 2 keyboards now? One for gaming, and one for doing work on? I can't imagine working on that tiny little thing with no ergonomics. Has LTT never shown a ergonomic keyboard? Is it a situation where it has been so long that I just don't remember? Where is the equivalent of the 1997 MS natural keyboard as a mechanical keyboard? That's what I am waiting for.
@@Jj82op I am subbed, I have never seen anything. Where is something like the MS natural keyboard all of us 80s and 90's kids grew up with? I watch these videos and am like. Ok sure it clicks nice. Is the \ key correct? is the backspace the right size of being slightly bigger than the \? Is the arrow keys in the right spot? How is the num pad? Is the spacebar cut in half? Do the keys have longer T,G,H,N to make up for the split or do they get cut short? How is the wrist pads? Is the function keys easy to hit blind? Is the gap between the function keys and the numbers large enough to feel them?
Commenting before watching. I'm hoping this enlightens me a little. I've been using the same keyboard for the past 10 years. Corsair Vengeance K70. Its solid, not too loud, and comfortable. I keep thinking about replacing it, but it works just as well today as the day that I got it. Its just a really good keyboard.
I didn't really learn much. Was hoping for more questions to be answered. Guess I will stick to my Corsair until it dies. No RGB (only R). No frills. Has USB passthrough. Has media keys. And I like the cable. Wireless stuff (that I can afford) always has just a hair of lag and it bothers me.
if u want to install the switches on gasket mount keyboard, especially the one that has 1.2mm pcb, pc plate and flex cut on pcb and plate, u should install them with plate first then put it in the case. the pcb and plate might flex too much that can make the sw doesnt connect properly and might break the hotswap socket and the plate
When I saw the thumbnail I thought they were going to show a pro and a noob, then I saw Plouffe and two Epomaker boards and realized it's actually a noob and a more-noob
my parents hate when i buy keyboards or mice instead of pc parts because they i say i already have one but when i got the viper v2 pro its super smooth and when i got a mechanical keyboard it helped me type and its smooth
I get why some people like 65% and 75% keyboards; however, I’m really on the side of fully ergonomic split keyboard with key wells (Glove80, Advantage 360, etc) or even the DataHand / chording style like the Svalboard or even the Characorder. Also: Clicky gang! Box Navy to assert dominance.
If I can find a kit where I can build a first gen style Logitech G15, I'll go down the custom mechanical keyboard rabbit hole. But until then, I will keep using the MX Mechanical.
James should give the FEKER Alice 98 a shot. I also require an ergo keyboard, and didn't go down the mechanical route for years until I found that one.
As someone who prefers the vintage stuff model f's, beam springs , ALPS etc i just dont get the whole cut plate thing , go use a 10 quid dell if you want mush.
As one of those people... nobody needs to do that. If you have a keyboard that serves you well, hold on to it! I fell down the rabbithole after getting a truly bad keyboard and then trying to answer the question for myself, "what is a good keyboard?" Turns out there are ten thousand answers to that question, and most folks are best served with one, maybe two of them.
I haven't yet developed any preferences in the internals more deep than "definitely not blue switches, brown a little better than red", so I'm still pretty far away from all the stuff like gasket mounting and lube and whatever. I'm much more about form factor and keycaps and I'm still pretty boring about those too. I replaced the shine through caps that came on the board with some cherry profile white on black caps and I like the look much more but the old caps were taller and I miss that. I love a full size layout but my shoulders are saying I need a split. Unfortunately, there are no splits that aren't either $60+ pre built or will-total-over-$80-after-switches-and-caps barebones, and I know hobbyists are used to spending hundreds to thousands per board and are trying to collect them all, but I still feel like I'm spending too much if I go over 40 for a board.
Before 2015, "genuine Cherry" usually did indeed mean "better quality" - but that's the year the patent for the Cherry MX switch expired - and since then, many other manufacturers have measurably surpassed Cherry's quality in multiple ways within the same format. Source: I've been collecting MX-pattern switches for 5 years with nearly 200 full sets - and quite a few of them put Cherry to shame. I don't think Cherry makes a single bad switch - but plenty of companies make better. That said, brand alone isn't an indicator of quality. Some companies make the whole gamut of trash to treasure.
What I don't get about mechanical keyboards is the height of the keys and the keyboard itself. I grew up with a laptop. Flat keys. Don't need to have my wrist at a blood circulation ending angle and after like 2mm the button was pressed and I could move on. Mechanical buttons seem so tall and it looks like the buttons have to be pressed down so much that I'd have the constant fear of pressing down the button below the intended one along with it unless I make the claw.
Because they are 65% and 75%, if you want numpad you need to search for a 99%+, in the case of Epomaker you can find Aula F99 that's the bigger version of the one I'm using rn and it is actually very good
They have like 30 options. These are the 65 key and 75 key. Gamers like them for gaming. There are science reasons for it. 104 keys are available as well. Why are internet commenters getting lazier than ever?
@@user-lv6rn9cf8m false, I have a keyboard from them and it's very high quality, the keys are pre lubed and sounds amazing. Wired mode, wireless mode and bluetooth with 3 different devices, works flawlessly. You probably never tried one because "me no give me money people tell they bad poopoo"
Only think preventing me from jumping into these kind of keyboards is a bit for the price and a lot that most of the good ones are TKL -- I do need my numpad side of keyboard.
Look into Glorious. Their software really sucks, so if you care about lighting effects and whatnot- maybe avoid them but their base GMMK 3 prebuilt 100% layout is $140, $100 if you go barebones. They ship quickly and their support is really good. Its still pricey and you could def find a 100% hotswap keyboard for less, but imo its not a bad value from a trusted brand thats known to uphold their warranty
I once found a 75% low-profile mechanical keyboard with the layout I wanted but it was missing the Home key. That was unfortunate because it is a deal breaker for me as a coder.
I would have preffered this video to have gone through all the layers of the keyboard one after the other, and to explain what the material here is and how other alternatives would change that. A bit longer on that stuff would have been hlepful.
What doesnt seem to be easy to find is a multi connect metal chasis mechanical keyboard. I need to be able to connect to at least 2 devices and switch with a press of a button. Why cant that feature be more common?
After a price point keyboards are just like watches in that they all do the job and the rest of the stupid money is for people with keyboard fetishes deluding themselves. The correlation between materials, time, effort and result plummets exponentially after $200.
To be frank, there are VAST and quite noticeable differences between my expensive keyboards and my budget (sub-250 ish) keyboards. Even people who have zero interest in keyboards have noticed some of these differences. Sure the most basic aspect of what they do - allowing me to make letters and numbers magically appear on my screen - is pretty much the same, but they in NO way feel, sound, and function the same. Perhaps a more relatable comparison is to say that there's no reason to buy a $40k vehicle when a $2k beater of a vehicle can also allow you to drive places. Or why buy a $500k home, when a $500/mo apartment also provides shelter. Why have a nice TV when you can watch movies on your phone? Why have nice shoes when cheap shoes also cover your feet? I could go on but hopefully you get the picture by now - maybe people who buy expensive keyboards aren't just looking for something that performs the most basic function of typing, *gasp* Even if the above comparisons don't make sense to you or anyone else reading, I'll NEVER understand why it bothers some people so much that another person might want to have things that they personally think are worth having? The greatest thing about life is that we all get to live it our own way, with our own values and our own preferences. Like, I personally don't see the value in buying designer handbags for hundreds and thousands of dollars - BUT I'm not pressed if someone else finds value or joy in that. Doesn't bother me in the slightest. But calling entire groups of people stupid, fetishist, and delusional just because they find value and happiness in something you're not personally interested in? Super classy. You must be an absolute pleasure to be around. Cheers, hope your life gets better soon 🍻
It would be great to hear about Plouffe's experience with wooting or such. The first review of Two HE was kinda bad, but maybe he would've gotten experience at this point, or at least some other dude in LTT might have!
Can someone tell me WHY epomaker is sketchy instead of just saying it?
that's what im saying
Top comment explains
@@UmbraFaux It doesn't.
They're importing keyboards straight from china either from OEM or well known brands like aula, feker, cidoo, etc. And getting a replacement is quite hard since you need to go to the same chinese store again and order more batches again.
That's why people are saying that their customer services are bad.
There's also some brands that they're importing that's pretty well known for QC issues (even there) like aula and ajazz or horrible software like feker where in some instances that their software could bricked their keyboard. And that's also the reason why people are saying that they're always getting defects and horrible QC issues on their keyboard.
Do mind that i'm not defending epomaker at all, i'm just saying that there're risks from importing keyboards straight from there even without buying from epomaker. It's really the thing you'd know if you're already deep in the community or have a guy who often imports stuff from there.
@alieffauzanrizky7202 thank you, you're a gentlemen and a scholar
oh yeah, Glarses have amazing pratical tutorials that go direct on point on how to build keebs.
Love me some Glasses. I wear them every day.
Glarses. . . "reasonable" . . .
yes I was wondering how to build a giant keyboard
It is important to remember for any new builders: never put your switches into the board without supporting the hot swap sockets on the other side of the pcb. This means don’t assemble the board inside the case. Build on top of a solid surface like a table or mat. The risk is breaking hotswap sockets that are not meant to take that tension.
that youtube channel and alle what linus is doing here hast nothing to do with professional stuff.
thats a stupid entertaining and advertising company
Not like thy are calling out good creators in the keyboard space ware you could dive deeper in the topic if you interested
oop, just built one the other day for the first time and didn't take it apart. didn't know that but mine seemed to hold up fine (TH80 pro) and everything seems to still work. If it wasn't going in easily i put the switch to the side or tried it in a diff slot, never forced any too hard.
While I would suggest the same on custom boards, there are boards that you can not easily take the case apart. The Keychron K10 is a good example of this. It's a hot swappable board where you can't easily take the case apart.
Also make sure your switch pins are straight.
I dig this style of video. One "pro" and one "noob". Would love to see more from the LMG team.
I can understand going without the numpad but I really can't understand going without the function keys
Why would you go without the function keys? What makes you think that? They're more accessible here than on a full size keyboard. FN + the number row versus having to move your entire hand forward.
I’m not using a standard staggered keyboard layout, but I have an embedded number pad and embedded function keys following the same pattern as the number pad under my right hand with a simple press of a key with my left hand. Layers. You know what they are, you just know it under a different context. Shift is a momentary layer switch that puts your numbers into Symbol mode and your lower-case letters into Upper Case mode. Caps Lock is a layer toggle that puts your letters all into Upper Case mode. Number Lock toggles the number pad between numeric input and a navigation cluster. It’s the same as layers.
With QMK you can give your home row keys multiple functions: tap for key input, tap and hold for a modifier function (Shift, Ctrl, Alt, Super, Fn; mirrored under both the left and right hand) so your hands can move even less. But I also get that change is hard and it can be annoying if you get one set of behaviors on your laptop keyboard (there are ways to get around this) versus your desktop keyboard.
People like this always make me wonder if they also complain about how they don't have any capital keys on their keyboard. "Why is it all lowercase?!"
Coworker: "Haha nice joke keyboard, you can't hit any function keys"
Me: F4 repeat last actions in excel.
Coworker: o_O
@@blackraen Talk about exaggeration. I've used computers since elementary school, but never had a keyboard without F keys. I actually learned from this video that you can use the function key+number instead. Even so it turns a bunch of commands into three button presses.
@@ivanheffner2587 I have to ask... why would one want to force themselves to slow down with a tap-and-hold modifier? That seems like the worst of both worlds.
FINALLY! Someone who appreciates the F-row and having learned all of the many shortcuts that take 16 mouse clicks to perform 👍🏼👏🏼
I really like the idea of the video. However It felt more like a showcase for Epomaker than about the questions for newbies.
yep. It is just straight up advertising for a scammy brand.
This guy is notoriously bad at it. Cannot find the balance. Best might be Jake.
It's almost like this is a sponsor showcase video
@@MoistCroutonI think the issue is that LMG expects most of their viewers to be… uh.. “sophisticated”(?) enough to understand the difference of a sponsor-only unboxing channel like Short Circuit where all their (genuine) opinions are strongly underlined by the direct sponsorship, versus the LTT channel where they do actual informative videos (even though some of the information may be functionally useless, like learning how many frames you can get out of City: Skylines 2 on a Threadripper pro 7000 with sub-zero cooling)
If the viewer base demographic for LMG mirrored that of the general population, you could argue that it is a bit insincere to take advantage of their goodwill and use their likeness in superficial sponsored-unboxings without making the scope of the videos very clear at the starts, but I don’t think LTT has too many viewers that might easily forget what a sponsored unboxing channel means as far as depth and discussion goes
Then again, you do always see certain comment chains near the top criticising any video on this channel for being sponsored drivel, shilling, or whatever of that sort, and if people point out what this channel is then they’re met with “well that doesn’t make it any better” or some deflection like that, so I guess they should start putting more explicit disclaimers at the start of each video…
This video was great. It confirmed that I'm personally not missing out on anything with custom/modded/high end keyboards.
I love this video style! calm vibes, just two people sharing thoughts and knowledge. Very chill
I was tired of the keyboard vids on here... but with these two together and a decent looking keyboard... I was captivated!!
One question is missing: Why are they mostly 65/75%? I would love to have a full size Keyboard in that quality. I have mostly to do with numbers and a Numberpad is always missing :(
I've been researching a lot of this lately and there are many such keyboards. A similar keyboard by the same brand is the Epomaker RT100
I have the Keychron Q6 with the knob and it's 100%. Best keyboard I've ever used straight out of the box although I did do some modding. Went with the original Q6 since I have no need for a wireless keyboard at my desk.
Get a separate numpad. Mine is on the right side of my mouse. Make so much more sense.
@@user-lv6rn9cf8m I understand it works for some people but it won't make sense for someone left handed. Keyboards have certain layouts for a reason. I'm ambidextrous and use the mouse with my right hand but I would love a full size layout with the numpad, ins, del, page up, page down, etc was on the left side of the board
Edit: sorry I just realized you said separate numpad. My left side right side shit makes no sense now😂 my apologies
I'll second the recommendation for a Keychron. They aren't the only company that makes a good fullsize these days, but theirs is probably the only one that's consistently available.
Glad to see James in videos! That handsome, witty devil. Gosh I miss THEY'RE JUST MOVIES!
Thanks for bring out the Tide keyboards review. Very in-depth and has toturial meaning! We greatly appreciate this commitment
This is truly one of the most informative videos from ShortCircuit in some time. Not because others lack, but this one is full of good info.
I just ordered a Keychron today. I can wait to jump into the rabbit hole of mechanical keyboards
I can't believe 65 and 75% keyboards are considered "standard sizes" now. You could never get me to give up a 100% keyboard.
I do a lot of programming on even smaller 60% keyboard and it does the job just fine.. Why would you need 100% keyboard?
I like the 96% format, I get a numpad and most if not all (depends on model) the extra function keys while also reducing the wasted space above the arrow keys.
What I don’t get, is why there are no more full size, integrated palm rest keyboards with extra/macro keys, I happen to have a big L shaped desk so I don’t mind the space, I’m still using a 24 year old PS/2 membrane HP keyboard just because it came with a big fixed palm rest, it is very comfortable to type for extended periods. It also comes with a volume knob and a dedicated button to open the software for a dial-up connection 😂
Really? You don't get why your incredibly niche keyboard isn't more available and commonplace?
Check the zsa moonlander, integrated ergonomic palmrest ! And you get split and colunar layout
I'm also hoping to find a really nice full size keyboard. I game, but I also do a lot of data capture and the numeric pad is just invaluable. No, I'm not going to move a separate one into place the whole time. I want something like these keyboards, but full size, no tiny 0 on the num pad, no 75/65 or smaller. Proper, full size. (And not costing $300+
@SlasherZA keychron sells a fullsize alu board. I'd reccomend the panga by bowl and gondo for something really nice and unique
I'm still clinging to my old Logitech G510 for the same reason. 3x18 macro keys, in-keyboard macro recorder, "game mode" switch that just disables the Windows key, integrated volume control, mute button, media keys, integrated screen and dedicated buttons for it... I literally just wish it was mechanical.
So refreshing when James is back in front of the camera.
"I wanna hear my keyboard, I dont wanna hear my switches " a true keyboard enthusiast indeed
After hurting my wrists on these straight keyboards and moving to an ergo one, I wish more companies went ergonomic with options.
Nice high level tutorial! Epomaker had some questionable foo going on for a while as others have noted. However the past 18 months or so it seems like, to me, they have been making at least some strides to do better. The quality of their keyboards has definitely improved over the course of 2024. Hopefully they will continue to improve and many of the previous issues will continue to be addressed over time, but it's definitely going to take a bit to regain some of the lost trust.
I love seeing bigger creators post more and more about mechanical keyboards :D
Banned from r/MechanicalKeyboards says what?
What? Oh wait-
ltt got banned on there? why?
What a lame way to say something so unhelpful.
its always good practice to install the switches with the PCB outside the case, laying on a flat surface, to avoid popping out the hotswap sockets
I think I'd watch more short circuit in this format. It's fun watching you both tinker with keyboards.
You show people how to push out their hotswap sockets 😅 Always support them.
I've found so many people that aren't into keyboards as a hobby love clicky switches. I used to like them as well. But after listening to hundreds of keyboards online, using clicky switches for an extended period of time, this went away. At least it did for me. I think this is probably a common thing to happen. Just something I've noticed.
This is awesome! Between this and game linked I gotta be honest the longer form vids work for me
So I'm guessing sending Plouffe a $10 keyboard from Walmart for Christmas is a bad idea...
I can never not use Hall Effect switches now. Being able to adjust the actuation point of each key is amazing.
this video was worth watching for that single excel tip
Dygma Raise 2 is gonna be a banger bruh 🎉 split ergonomic, can't go back ❤
oh yes lets go.
Try adding keywell to it (Glove80). ;)
Or the Advantage 360 if you want the key wells with Cherry MX type switches; a heavier, more solid feel; and and a vendor with decades of experience delivering products that can last more than a decade.
Don’t get me wrong: I really like what Dygma has done with the Defy (column staggered rather than row staggered) with the expansive thumb clusters, advanced tenting kit, and triple-mode communication; but, I like some contours on my keyboard.
yall should do a video about open source ergo boards, i.e. the corne, ferris, and others.
Im still in love with my dyna tab 75x. Thanks for the great and informational content.
Fantastic video!!! More content with dual presenters like this!
I got an Epomaker 75% with the budgerigar switches and it’s the best keyboard I’ve ever owned hands down
happy birthday James 🎂🤜🤛🏾🥳
3:40 Love the mugging at the camera cause you said the word. LMAO
This was genuinely so helpful!!
You guys should make a video showing examples of each type of "keyboard sound", while showing how to achieve each type of sound, a lot of people have no idea what is thock or creamy, although they will get it once they hear it.
So, there's been some errors in the video, things like the difference between case foam and plate foam, which Ploof got mixed up, but it's worth mentioning some people who watch the video know the difference. The Plate foam goes between the plate and the PCB along with the PE sheet and the PET sheet (in that order from top to bottom) and the case foam goes between the PCB and the bottom of the case. The Plate foam stops lateral sounds from the switches, the PE sheet and PET sheet sit on top of the PCB and the switches poke through them. They stop some sound from reflecting back while you type and the Case foam fills the empty space in the case and stops resonance from the inside of the case. Two more sound dampening measures that are common (but becoming less so as new keyboards implement new implementation of foams) is the tape mod, where you put layers of non-conductive painter's tape on the bottom of the PCB this is also to reflect specific frequencies of sound to make the sound "poppier" and the force break, when tape is applied to the frame of the case where the top and bottom meet (usually around the screw holes) and then is meant to stop the transfer of vibrations between the top and bottom case which can cause unpleasant tinging sounds.
Check out my UA-cam Channel for some of my keyboard content if you thought that this was, at all, interesting, LOL.
Nice father and son bonding moment poron!
Thanks for this video - helping me to understand that these expensive keyboards actually have no benefit except for pleasing your inner monk.
at least you're not tape modding each key. I am still trying to figure out if i wanna drop a pad in the stem recess so it doesn't bottom out so hard on my leverless fightbox.
This video didn't answer ANY of my questions. I want to build a full size mechanical keyboard, but where do i start? How do i find a kit that suits me? What features should i generally look for (like qmk)? What are good brands?
The video wasn't bad but the title just doesn't match what's in the video
@gagnarork yeah that's what it looked like to me. but i wish it would've answered at least some of the questions
Yeah the presentation was odd when SC is explicitly a sponsored-unboxing only channel.
On the LTT channel, they did do a cursory glance over custom keyboards a while back (ua-cam.com/video/bBon6WwkdJE/v-deo.html), but it’s not superduper in depth and I’d recommend you look at multiple sources instead of relying solely on them for pointers
The price was fairly reasonable. Nice.
Spends thousands on keyboards, monitors, and drives a civic from the early 2000s.
Priorities baby
Spend the money where it brings you joy
Yeah why bother spending on something you used more than 6 hours daily than something that just 70% all of its lifetime parked on sidewalk 🤡
That F4 hack is about to change my life.
Is it weird that after Plouffe said echo and spring ping are sounds that not one wants I realized that I like the fact that my keyboard does that. I am not sure if that makes me weird or not in some way. But I like the bangs, thuds and sproings that I get when I am doing a nice writing session.
lol, and there's me still using the first Razer Chroma Black Widow RGB keyboard at work for almost a decade and still works fine with its clicky switches.
3:06 Plouffe: “There are 5 layers…”
My stupid brain: “…of fatness! Big, Healthy, Husky, Fluffy, and DAMN!” 😂😂
Missed opportunity to wear the keyswitch shirt
"Creamy Thocc"....that's a nope, add that to the list with moist, and ooze. 😂
Literally just built an epomaker TH80 pro barebones KB the other day (my first barebones), it was fun to build and feels really nice. Wish i knew some of the controversy before buying it and supporting a supposedly sketchy brand but hopefully they can clean their rep up cause i do like the board I got.
people are acting like they are nestle. that is a brand you should avoid buying products from, and all the companies they own.
@@Stackali epomaker has horrible work ethics, they are actually banned from most hobbyist groups
If I am not mistaken, the flex cut is on the actual PCB, not the POM plate. Some keyboard makers offer no flex cuts.
There is both, and the one shown in this video is actually on the plate rather than the PCB. Most designer opt for plate cut as its easier compare to do cuts on PCB while designing the bus to go around it.
Happy Birthday, James.
Show us your ergo!
Something I never thought I'd hear in a ShortCircuit - "let's compare nobs" 😂
Too bad they don't come in ISO layout, makes it a no go for me :(
What the market needs atm is more thin keyboards since the only thin ones are the low profile ones but then you get different switches and keycaps which i dont want.
We also need more flat keyboards since almost every single damn keyboard these days comes with a steep (to me) typing angle at 7 degrees or steeper.
The only ones iv found so far that are both thin and flat compared to most boards are the varmilo ones but then you get meh tier quality with meh plastic, non via support and no hotswap and they are impossible to mod since everything is closed with plastic clips which you have to break or break something else on the keyboard to get inside it so the moddability is 0/10.
The mid to high end market seems to be 95%:
Metal case (with extra added internal weights to bring the keyboard from very heavy to why the fuck heavy),
A 8 degree FIXED typing angle with no way to adjust feet etc,
2x the thickness that it actually needs to be (they need to make room for the extra weights and 1cm thick cast iron bottom i guess which i know isnt needed since i have looked at internals of slimmer models such as the ones from brands like varmilo).
A super detailed etched panel that add lots of extra cost to the board HOWEVER ITS MOUNTED ON THE BOTTOM SO YOU CANT SEE IT ANYWAY (imagine paying for engravings on the bottom of your mousepad lol)
But i guess instead of keyboars brands such as keychron make some kind of upgrade to the people who want something better than a vamilo keyboard they decide to make another version that is almost exactly like their allready existing ones so now they have 51 keyboards that fit the 95% mentioned above.
Appreciated this! The peripheral game is just something I don't understand, perhaps because I'm fairly new to not gaming on a laptop. With a laptop, I always bought based on performance and screen size; whatever I got for a keyboard (or speakers, or a webcam, or a mic) was what I got.
Feels like you need 2 keyboards now? One for gaming, and one for doing work on? I can't imagine working on that tiny little thing with no ergonomics. Has LTT never shown a ergonomic keyboard? Is it a situation where it has been so long that I just don't remember? Where is the equivalent of the 1997 MS natural keyboard as a mechanical keyboard? That's what I am waiting for.
They have many videos, with James, as it was alluded to during the intro.
Insanity. One good keyboard is all you need.
but the deeper you go in the keyboard hole the more you spend and the more metal rectangles you amass
and then you find yourself doing interior decor
@@Jj82op I am subbed, I have never seen anything. Where is something like the MS natural keyboard all of us 80s and 90's kids grew up with?
I watch these videos and am like. Ok sure it clicks nice. Is the \ key correct? is the backspace the right size of being slightly bigger than the \? Is the arrow keys in the right spot? How is the num pad? Is the spacebar cut in half? Do the keys have longer T,G,H,N to make up for the split or do they get cut short? How is the wrist pads? Is the function keys easy to hit blind? Is the gap between the function keys and the numbers large enough to feel them?
they've shown a lot
Didn't show us the side-lit labeling.
Not once.
If its anything like Monsgeek M1W its pretty crappy for RGB, even with south facing LEDs its barely visible LOL.
Has Plouffe ever modded a keyboard by pouring resin into the shell? Makes hollow plastic sound and feel so much better
Commenting before watching. I'm hoping this enlightens me a little. I've been using the same keyboard for the past 10 years. Corsair Vengeance K70. Its solid, not too loud, and comfortable. I keep thinking about replacing it, but it works just as well today as the day that I got it. Its just a really good keyboard.
I didn't really learn much. Was hoping for more questions to be answered. Guess I will stick to my Corsair until it dies. No RGB (only R). No frills. Has USB passthrough. Has media keys. And I like the cable. Wireless stuff (that I can afford) always has just a hair of lag and it bothers me.
I love when i spend 12 hours customizing my keyboard so i can put on my headphones and never hear anything
if u want to install the switches on gasket mount keyboard, especially the one that has 1.2mm pcb, pc plate and flex cut on pcb and plate, u should install them with plate first then put it in the case. the pcb and plate might flex too much that can make the sw doesnt connect properly and might break the hotswap socket and the plate
I love how James is actually not giving a fuck, while Plouffe is almost age-restric the video :D
When I saw the thumbnail I thought they were going to show a pro and a noob, then I saw Plouffe and two Epomaker boards and realized it's actually a noob and a more-noob
I bought a keychron K4 and love it. A good keyboard is so nice. I also MUCH prefer tactile switches to linear.
I’d pay for some extra knob comparisons to be made. 😌
I would love to see more of this but flip it and look at the ergo keybaords too
my parents hate when i buy keyboards or mice instead of pc parts because they i say i already have one but when i got the viper v2 pro its super smooth and when i got a mechanical keyboard it helped me type and its smooth
Such a wholesome video
I get why some people like 65% and 75% keyboards; however, I’m really on the side of fully ergonomic split keyboard with key wells (Glove80, Advantage 360, etc) or even the DataHand / chording style like the Svalboard or even the Characorder.
Also: Clicky gang! Box Navy to assert dominance.
Let’s see the ergo mechs on short circuit!
If you wanted James to be more excited, you should have gone with an Alice layout of some kind
i can't live without my numpad
If I can find a kit where I can build a first gen style Logitech G15, I'll go down the custom mechanical keyboard rabbit hole. But until then, I will keep using the MX Mechanical.
James should give the FEKER Alice 98 a shot. I also require an ergo keyboard, and didn't go down the mechanical route for years until I found that one.
FEKER? I barely know er
I can't believe the youtube algorithm doesn't demonetize from comparing knobs
As someone who prefers the vintage stuff model f's, beam springs , ALPS etc i just dont get the whole cut plate thing , go use a 10 quid dell if you want mush.
"I've spent thousands on keyboards/caps/switches..."
Me with my Logitech K350 for the last several years...
Me with my Corsair Vengeance K70 my friend sent me 10 years ago. Still working, still great.
I replaced my Logitech G213 after 4 years because it started to slowly die... Logitech made very good affordable products at the time
As one of those people... nobody needs to do that. If you have a keyboard that serves you well, hold on to it! I fell down the rabbithole after getting a truly bad keyboard and then trying to answer the question for myself, "what is a good keyboard?" Turns out there are ten thousand answers to that question, and most folks are best served with one, maybe two of them.
Logitech G510 here. Still more full-featured than anything else on the market...
@@scorchthelost Microsoft Sidewinder X4 for about the same length of time, I like the low profile and macro keys.
"A creamy 'THOCK'." - Plouffe
Thanks, but I'll stick to my AULA F99s since I need the numpad and have found that their switches are what I like.
8:52 "I hate using layers"
Me using Miryoku layout on the Corne wirelless -> 😮
I haven't yet developed any preferences in the internals more deep than "definitely not blue switches, brown a little better than red", so I'm still pretty far away from all the stuff like gasket mounting and lube and whatever. I'm much more about form factor and keycaps and I'm still pretty boring about those too. I replaced the shine through caps that came on the board with some cherry profile white on black caps and I like the look much more but the old caps were taller and I miss that. I love a full size layout but my shoulders are saying I need a split. Unfortunately, there are no splits that aren't either $60+ pre built or will-total-over-$80-after-switches-and-caps barebones, and I know hobbyists are used to spending hundreds to thousands per board and are trying to collect them all, but I still feel like I'm spending too much if I go over 40 for a board.
I have an EPOMAKER x LEOBOG Hi75 AND I LOVE IT
8:37 noevim has this feature for three decades now
You guys ever gonna do a vid comparing the brands? I don’t believe the whole “it’s just like Cherry” coping.
Before 2015, "genuine Cherry" usually did indeed mean "better quality" - but that's the year the patent for the Cherry MX switch expired - and since then, many other manufacturers have measurably surpassed Cherry's quality in multiple ways within the same format. Source: I've been collecting MX-pattern switches for 5 years with nearly 200 full sets - and quite a few of them put Cherry to shame. I don't think Cherry makes a single bad switch - but plenty of companies make better. That said, brand alone isn't an indicator of quality. Some companies make the whole gamut of trash to treasure.
cherry switches are literally some of the worst switches you can get in today's market. there are countless alternatives that are better.
What I don't get about mechanical keyboards is the height of the keys and the keyboard itself. I grew up with a laptop. Flat keys. Don't need to have my wrist at a blood circulation ending angle and after like 2mm the button was pressed and I could move on. Mechanical buttons seem so tall and it looks like the buttons have to be pressed down so much that I'd have the constant fear of pressing down the button below the intended one along with it unless I make the claw.
Why don't these boutique keyboards have a damned numpad???
Because they are 65% and 75%, if you want numpad you need to search for a 99%+, in the case of Epomaker you can find Aula F99 that's the bigger version of the one I'm using rn and it is actually very good
They have like 30 options. These are the 65 key and 75 key. Gamers like them for gaming. There are science reasons for it.
104 keys are available as well.
Why are internet commenters getting lazier than ever?
Epomaker - "boutique keyboard". What are you smoking even? That's one of the crappiest budget brands you can buy.
@@user-lv6rn9cf8m I've never heard of them, my bad.
@@user-lv6rn9cf8m false, I have a keyboard from them and it's very high quality, the keys are pre lubed and sounds amazing.
Wired mode, wireless mode and bluetooth with 3 different devices, works flawlessly.
You probably never tried one because "me no give me money people tell they bad poopoo"
Only think preventing me from jumping into these kind of keyboards is a bit for the price and a lot that most of the good ones are TKL -- I do need my numpad side of keyboard.
You really have to be careful, yeah. Even a lot of the "100%" keyboards wind up missing a few keys here and there. Irritating.
Look into Glorious. Their software really sucks, so if you care about lighting effects and whatnot- maybe avoid them but their base GMMK 3 prebuilt 100% layout is $140, $100 if you go barebones. They ship quickly and their support is really good.
Its still pricey and you could def find a 100% hotswap keyboard for less, but imo its not a bad value from a trusted brand thats known to uphold their warranty
I once found a 75% low-profile mechanical keyboard with the layout I wanted but it was missing the Home key. That was unfortunate because it is a deal breaker for me as a coder.
I would have preffered this video to have gone through all the layers of the keyboard one after the other, and to explain what the material here is and how other alternatives would change that. A bit longer on that stuff would have been hlepful.
i just pre-purchased gravastars new keyboard being released later this month! STOKED!
Is it just me or is there no visual labels on the keycaps?
Looks like two blank keyboards.
What doesnt seem to be easy to find is a multi connect metal chasis mechanical keyboard. I need to be able to connect to at least 2 devices and switch with a press of a button. Why cant that feature be more common?
Waiting for an aluminum, wireless, ergodox that supports QMK
After a price point keyboards are just like watches in that they all do the job and the rest of the stupid money is for people with keyboard fetishes deluding themselves.
The correlation between materials, time, effort and result plummets exponentially after $200.
To be frank, there are VAST and quite noticeable differences between my expensive keyboards and my budget (sub-250 ish) keyboards. Even people who have zero interest in keyboards have noticed some of these differences. Sure the most basic aspect of what they do - allowing me to make letters and numbers magically appear on my screen - is pretty much the same, but they in NO way feel, sound, and function the same. Perhaps a more relatable comparison is to say that there's no reason to buy a $40k vehicle when a $2k beater of a vehicle can also allow you to drive places. Or why buy a $500k home, when a $500/mo apartment also provides shelter. Why have a nice TV when you can watch movies on your phone? Why have nice shoes when cheap shoes also cover your feet? I could go on but hopefully you get the picture by now - maybe people who buy expensive keyboards aren't just looking for something that performs the most basic function of typing, *gasp*
Even if the above comparisons don't make sense to you or anyone else reading, I'll NEVER understand why it bothers some people so much that another person might want to have things that they personally think are worth having? The greatest thing about life is that we all get to live it our own way, with our own values and our own preferences. Like, I personally don't see the value in buying designer handbags for hundreds and thousands of dollars - BUT I'm not pressed if someone else finds value or joy in that. Doesn't bother me in the slightest. But calling entire groups of people stupid, fetishist, and delusional just because they find value and happiness in something you're not personally interested in? Super classy. You must be an absolute pleasure to be around. Cheers, hope your life gets better soon 🍻
That is the same for anything on Earth. So I am not sure why you feel like you are treading new ground or saying anything tetesting 😂
I would love to see a double blind test and see if people can actually pick out the more expensive keyboards by touch or sound or whatever.
It would be great to hear about Plouffe's experience with wooting or such. The first review of Two HE was kinda bad, but maybe he would've gotten experience at this point, or at least some other dude in LTT might have!