The ethics of hunting deer for meat
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- Опубліковано 12 вер 2021
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Tess Gingery's master's thesis on fawn survival at Penn State: etda.libraries.psu.edu/files/...
Study indicating current U.S. deer populations are around their estimated pre-Columbian levels: www.iacis.org/iis/2018/2_iis_2...
Study showing hunting ("harvest") is the top cause of mortality for North American large mammals, including deer: www.researchgate.net/publicat... - Навчання та стиль
What’s completely missing from his video is also the fact that hunters and their conservation efforts have greatly contributed to the increased number of deers. Hunters brought back turkeys buffalo deer elk and so on. It’s because they enjoy hunting and enjoy the meat that they also work hard towards conservation of the resource.
Teddy Roosevelt was THE hunter, and he is the Ur Conservationist too. We have the national park system, and a great many of the conservation programs that preserved our national wild heritage specifically because Teddy loved going out in the woods and hunting. Nor did he hate animals in any way considering the sheer number of them he and his family kept at the White House, up to and including a goddamn bear and a freaking badger that one of his boys carried around like a pussy cat.
This is big. Because we hunt people aren't tearing up natural land in favor of drilling oil or farming, hunters protect more animals than they kill.
It's surprising when I find people that know these things also
Don't you get it? It is better to be not born at all than be born so that someone can shoot you. We should have no right over animals. Most animals are independent, sentient beings who can feel love and pain, just like humans do. I have been vegan for 30 years and will continue to be one.
@@umbertlambert2113 Would you rather animals die because of land clearing and farming. Would you rather entire herds not be born? Hunters often support and feed entire herds of deer just to harvest old ones.
And "completely leaving them alone" is not a choice. That's not realistic. Either they be hunter or wiped out entirely for commercial practices. Even the fees from trophy hunting in Africa are used to support reservations and protect them from poaching. You don't have to want to or agree with it but to say hunting is a complete net negative is just ignorant.
I feel like you could have also addressed how hunting usually requires tags to be purchased from the state. The revenues from which go back towards environmental conservation.
I think his main focus was from the individual perspective of the animal itself, but I agree. Hunting regulations are a fun rabbit hole that a lot of people don’t really go into.
that would depend on where you live and the animal in question. is australia you only need tags for protected animals like kangaroos (not that people in the country dont just hunt them anyway). pest animals like deer, pigs rabbits etc dont need any permits to hunt
THIS! It is one of the largest success stories in conservation.
In Az, that money is being used to keep wildlife watered.
Hunting isn't ok,
When I got into hunting the biggest surprise to me was the additude other hunters had. It was all about safety, taking the right shot to make sure the animal dies as fast as possible (not suffer), and using most of the animal you can(all meat, sometimes fur).
The biggest surprise was watching a deer walk by and seeing a guy NOT take the shot because he didn't think he had a good enough sight and didn't want to hit it outside the kill zone. Eventually it would die... But knowing it would suffer for longer made him not take the shot.
As someone who, like Adam, grew up in rural Pennsylvania, hunting is the shit for most people growing up here. I didn’t have any interest whatsoever but my dad is an avid hunter and I would clarify him as an ethical hunter like you said.
I know the focus was on deer for this video but we shouldn't forget about the wild hogs that are decimating farms and natural habitats in the Southern US. Like hunting fishing for invasive species like the Asian Carp is also considered harvesting. The vast majority of other hunters I've met have an incredible knowledge and appreciation for the natural environment and their prey that it's hard to see the act as anything other than a conservation activity.
Having said all that, I'm surprised by the comment section. Often this issue is very polarizing and we'd see a lot of cross words about hunting. Maybe the comments are curated or maybe Adam's audience is far more rational and tempered than the general populace. It's great to see.
I like to think there is less contention nowadays. Yes, we as humans have hunted many species to extinction or near it (Adam has done a video on buffalo and mentioned carrier pigeons in another), but I think if everyone decided to stop hunting deer, car insurance rates would rise pretty dang quickly. I'm in transportation research, and I've seen the statistics for deer crashes, it's pretty staggering as it is.
By the way, I went to an upscale restaurant in DC on a business trip recently (hey, the company offered, why not get wined and dined?), and the invasive Snakehead Fish was on the menu as a breaded and deep-fried appetizer. It baffled me, but I was curious. I'm not normally into white fish, but it tasted pretty good in my opinion. I'd guess it was like any other usual white fish, but it seemed relatively moist and tender, too.
Wild hogs, Asian carp, pythons in the Everglades, there's plenty of invasive species. I want to say that snakeheads are actually illegal to throw back, regardless of the size of the fish you catch in the United States. They are so invasive that you're actually required to kill everyone that you come across. There are some PETA types that get all up in arms about that logic, but it actually goes into protecting local wildlife from an invasive species that would otherwise cause massive devastation. Some things we actually need to hunt too local extinction because they don't belong in those environments.
@@BlightningBrightling PETA agents from a rally once hit a deer after going to a no hunting protest. They then asked the state to fit the overpopulation problem in deer.
I looked into this though, the hunting of wild hogs by individuals might make the invasion of hogs worse. First of all hog hunting by individuals creates a very important, valuable industry which many people are invested in maintaining. This doesn't incentivize solving the problem, it encourages the problem to grow. Also hogs travel in large groups. Shooting one causes the group to scatter and sometimes in different directions. They'll spread out further. The best way to deal with the hogs is to catch the whole group in corral traps and kill them.
Leave the majestic deer alone and eat that endless supply of white fish terrorizing the Ohio river and the high-quality feral hogs
As some who's lived 90% of their life in Pennsylvania, I'd argue that human beings are the only predator in the state capable of keeping the population down. From what I've read, mountain lion and wolf populations were all but wiped out of PA before the 20th century. You could always reintroduce them to the ecosystem, but it would be a hard sell (especially to suburbanites who'd rather not have their corgi consumed by a 120 lb cat.)
@@AYellowPepper whelp, now I feel kinda bad... Sorry for putting the image in your head! 😬
Yes!! Man I never realized just how atrocious our deer make our environment until I started working in a park. Our land is screwed and will likely NEVER return to how it should be. The difference between this park and a park that was allocated for sustaining the natural environment not even an hour away is astounding.
That made me laugh even though i love my dogs.
There was an island off the coast of Canada that actually had deer so overpopulate it killed off the bear population. Deer ate all the berries and ended up starving out the bear population. I know what you're thinking, "why didn't the bears eat the deer." Bears are, like humans, omnivorous, eating meat and vegetation and requiring both to survive. They probably did eat as much deer as they caught, but it didn't give them enough nutrition. That's also assuming a starving bear has enough energy to catch a well-fed deer.
Here in finland we have reintrodecud wolfs but many people are afraid of them and want them killed
"any deer you hunt for meat lived a better life than the factory-farmed McBurger you ate while watching this video" is enough of a reason to convince me that hunting is perfectly ethical.
I’ve often thought this and it’s why I am a huge proponent of kangaroo.
Yeah it is as long as we keep the suffering of the death to a small amount and only hunt in sustainable numbers. And honestly it may even be necessary in some cases where the number of a species is going overdrive and could cause a big damage in the ecosystem, specially when invasive species are involved, the hunt of invasive species should be encouraged imo.
@@Greideren There are invasive species with essentially 'open seasons' for hunting -- wild boar/feral hogs come to mind. The problem with some of these invasive species is that they're inedible, which doesn't motivate hunting them.
While yes it's true, it's not easy or even feasible to hunt on such a large scale to feed billions. Factory farming evolved for a reason. It's not perfect, and we need solutions, but it cannot be solely hunting.
Factory-farmed being worse doesn't mean hunting is good, factory farming is just evil. If population control and not engaging in animal cruelty actually was a priority, there are other ways than hunting which achieve this more effectively, contraception possibly being an alternative. But that isn't the priority, the priority is taste and or fun, both being directly or indirectly for temporary pleasures that to me seems quite trivial in comparison to someone's life. The argument that being shot is better than these animals "natural" deaths makes more sense, though only in absence of real efforts to reduce animal suffering.
My grandpa hunted for a majority of his life and had a deep respect for the animals he took, and taught me the same. Taking the life of an animal is not an easy feat, but knowing I am paying for licensing that goes to conservation of land and keeping a healthy population makes me feel better about it. Most people I know who hunt also share a deep respect for nature. I don’t condone hunting for sport or “trophies”, but hunting for food has been a common way of life for most of human history and I feel that it can bring people a deeper appreciation for the food on their table.
I grew up farming and ranching. I have hunted my entire life. I am going elk hunting later this week here in AZ. People I hunt with and hang with are extremely active in conservation projects and forest restoration. Most hunters put their money and their time into the ecosystem.
Yea, I have met VERY few hunters who disrespect the ecosystem and animals, the ones who do are typically considered idiots and dismissed, grew up hunting since i was like 7
@@rowanweaver3241 same. I feel like hunters respect the environment more than most people.
There’s elk in Arizona?
@@J242D yeah
@@maddoxprimeaux3565 that’s pretty sick I just recently learned ab us having them in NC
I live in rural Australia. When my son wanted to hunt I passed on my ethics. There are only 3 reasons to kill an animal; to eat it, to put it out of its misery if it's injured or it's vermin. Also no trick shots, no long shots. Only sure shots for a clean kill. I'm proud to say he still hunts that way.
My family is full of avid hunters since I grew up in Idaho, so I’ve been a few times. I’d say my biggest regret was being a terrible shot because I’ve wounded more animals than I’ve actually killed, so even if they survived a long time afterwards, their quality of life went way down
@@theholypopechodeii4367 we also hunt deer, pigs/boar, rabbits, ducks turkey, dove etc. ive never taking any turkey or dove personally but i know theyre out there.
We hunt dear, goats, hares and rabbits. All feral animals that compete with native animals and adversely impact the environment. We don't shoot kangaroo or wallaby because we have better land management strategies to give them bush while our livestock graze pastures.
The other big reason to hunt, of course for food, is population control. People never think of what happens when overpopulation happens of any animal species in this modern age due to access to human raised food resources, they end up completely depleting their own natural food resources and end up SUFFERING from starvation and dying slow painful deaths. Hunting to cull populations to keep sustainable numbers that do not over stress natural food resources is a way to prevent great suffering for many species of animals besides just deer and help preserve their species survival.
@@CatalystDestiny yeah, people have no idea about this. They think animals live in peace and harmony lol.
Having hands on experience with the process of slaughtering, skinning, and harvesting animals for me personally is an experience every single meat-eater should go through at least once. At least you know that the meat you're eating isnt just product, its a life. By doing so you could also prevent food waste out of respect for the animal.
Having to get their hands bloody might even have people consider if having an animal suffer growing up in a crowded pen on a factory farm and then be slaughtered well before its natural lifespan is worth having a tasty treat.
Definitely changed how I viewed meat when I slaughtered a chicken for the first time.
I got to witness the slaughter of a pig once and it was a really cool experience, it hasn't changed by opinions on meat whatsoever. All in all it was a fun memorable experience.
@@marknewman7506 did they use the freaky brain-masher-gun-thing or some other method? For chickens just a normal knife was enough tool for the job, but a pig is a bit of a different beast lol.
@@marknewman7506 exactly. If someone is not delusional and detached from reality, harvesting an animal for food should be not different the opening a bag of chips (all be it more messy and time consuming).
The thrill of the hunt isn’t always getting the deer but the tracking, the quietness of the woods and being away from the drama of every day life. Just you and the forest. The deer is just food from the day
well said
As a hunter of wild game ethics is forefront of my mind when I am out there. My considerations are: 1. is it legal to harvest? 2. Do I have the proper ammo type and weapon for the job? 3 Can I make a ethical shot? For example, what is the target and beyond? For deer I require my firearm to have at least 1,000 foot pounds of energy at the time of impact and I do not take questionable shots because if the hunter does not take due diligence in shot placement and proper yards of distance the animal can live for a long time in pain until disease or predation takes its life. If a proper shot has been taken the game animal should die within 50 yards or about 15 to 30 seconds. side note I am not just hunting I am exploring also other plant based foods in the wild as well as I hunt and I only eat that if its appears abundant and proper identification (made that mistake once and I don't plan on repeating it.)
The idea that people hunting for food is somehow "unnatural" is completely lost on me. As a species we've developed the tools to make us extremely effective at it. Surely there isn't a cutoff point where the earliest hunter/gatherers became unnatural because of their incrementally better tools?
I think this generally comes from the fallacy that things that are natural are inherently better. They aren't, nature does a lot of terrible and inefficient things, but I think the point they're trying to get at is that it's unsustainable.
Nature has a self balancing mechanism, Predators eat prey, some predators have other predators, and apex predators require so much nutrition that they can't become too populous, because if I overfed, they would devastate the food populations that they rely on.
Humans are somewhat the exception to this, hunter-gatherers word sustainable because their tools were so limited and complexity that it took a comparatively large amount of effort to hunt something, who could only eat what we could catch but had to be careful not to devastate the population, nor did we really have the ability to. Now though, you can wipe out whole populations of animals just by accident, we've become so efficient at killing that we've broken the natural self-sustaining Loop that keeps the food web together, and as such it has cascading effects on every other species.
Hunting itself is not necessarily unnatural, but hunting on a massive scale, especially on species that are becoming increasingly endangered (not deer, dear God not deer), and hunting primarily for sport rather than for sustenance is "unnatural", in the sense that the ecosystem doesn't account for it nor do any other species really do it on the scale that we do.
I would say whenever people say unnatural, just substitute it for unsustainable.
@@pennyforyourthots nature doesn't balance, it's chaotic. Chaotic systems frequently have attractors that the system will oscillate around but a large enough disturbance can shift the system to another attractor or even disrupt it entirely, AKA extinction. Humans are hardly unique in being super-efficient predators on a population, take a look at what happened to South America's ecosystem when the Panama land bridge was established. We also aren't the only creatures that hunt for "sport," most apex predators do it.
Hunting would feel unnatural to me, because I'm raised in a "civilized" society where industrialized farming is almost 100% of my food source. Yes, I carry the genes of my ancestors who would have to hunt for a living, but no, I don't share the same environment or the same upbringing with them. We share the same goal - to survive, but they survived by hunting, and I'm surviving by working in an office and walking in a supermarket (and sometimes it does sound a bit sad).
@@zhuofanzhang9974 There is a reason our ancestors figured out how to domesticate animals, and why societies that figured that out were able to out-compete hunter-gatherer societies. We're all better off when we allow a few people to focus their efforts on what they're best at and then trade one another so that we all benefit from the work of others.
@@dirtyblueshirt Precisely. Personally, I'd struggle to kill an animal to eat unless my situation was dire, but thankfully there are plenty of people who can do it that I can trade with to keep myself fed day to day.
I love how Adam always frames the video in such a respectable manner that even people that are initially very reticent about the video's thesis can still watch and maybe understand the argument. The way he's able to empathise with other's concerns in a genuine manner and make it so no one feels "called out" about their views is something I very much admire and try to adopt in my own life.
Totally agree!
Indeed. Which is why I finished that video saying "so, you think it's pretty much okay then?"
If you dont mind being called a douche bag then sure
@@Tauntaun707 You misunderstood. Douchebags in the video:
-Sniping apex predators from the comfort of a Land Rover
-Mounting heads on your wall _without_ using the carcass for its meat
Those activities are not even the subject of Adam's debate, here. He writes them off as definitely unethical (agreed), and instead discusses the ethics of hunting for meat, a topic which he gives his characteristic nuance and even-sided take on.
Absolutely. It's really professional and I love it
I have hunted all my life in sweden, and followed my parents in their moose hunts since I was a child. One thing you didn't mention was population control, the huge forestry industry in sweden requires a reasonable moose population, and keeping the population down also decreases car accidents. Since the state is very much in control of the amount of moose to be harvested there is virtually no chance of extinction.
About the "what kind of person enjoys killing animals" part, I really do see your point. Although when you have grown up around hunting and see it as a natural thing, it is easier to understand the enjoyment of it, the adrenaline when you see a moose walk up to you in the woods is as no other thing. I also think there has to be some sort of genetics playing in, although I am not a person that says that "people are made for eating meat" etc etc, I do think that to some extent the enjoyment of hunting has to be somewhat natural for us.
This was pretty rambly, but I hope you get my points, good video nonetheless!
You don't need hunting to control moose or deer populations though. All you could do is reintroduce natural predators like wolf, lynx or bear - which is a way more efficient way and requires a lot less effort. Not to mention it's a billion times better for the ecosystem.
@@joseguerreiro5943 that is very true, but having larger populations of bears, wolves, etc isn't something most people would love having on their doorstep. Some animal populations such as wild boar have absolutely exploded and I doubt many predators could make a meaningful impact on their population. The swedish government also have very good control on animal populations, making sure overhunting doesn't happen.
I myself am of course very biased, but I also think hunting is a meaningful "hobby" but also a cultural heritage, the way we hunt in Sweden with hunting dogs is a rather unique thing worth defending.
I very much understand vegetarians and vegans being skeptical and against hunting and I respect that opinion though.
@@joseguerreiro5943 And increase the rate of human and pet deaths, and the suffering of the predated animal?
No thanks
Definitely this. I also think there's a misnomer that hunters exactly 'enjoy' killing things, they're less squeamish about it, but so must any farmer be, ending an animals life whether wild or farmed requires a certain level of keeping your head in the game. This isn't like trophy hunters who go to Africa just to kill lions and leave them on the ground, large majority of hunters who aren't megarich do it for perfectly normal reasons.
@@lleexxaa99 - We really have marginal populations of the predators here in Sweden. So if there was more bears they could take a lot more moose, but then also wolf and lynx could take some boars, deers, and more. Sure, it's a social and cultural thing. But even when needed after car accidents etc it doesn't mean we have to hunt for sports otherwise.
There were zero (0) resident whitetail deer in Ohio, where I live, in 1900. They were extirpated (extinct in a previously populated area or region) through habitat destruction and over hunting.
Ohio began repopulating whitetails in the 1930's, bringing them from adjacent states.
The first whitetail hunting season began in the 1950's.
By the 1970s, Ohio had about 25,000 deer in the state... Today, we have around 875,000 whitetail deer in Ohio.
As your guest mentioned, deer car collisions and hunting are the main population control for deer in Ohio.
Without apex predators like wolves and big cats (Ohio has a small black bear population of about 100), there are no other significant population controls.
I am not sure I like hunting, per se, but I feel it is an important part of wildlife and habitat management.
Deer archery season starts next Saturday, September 25 and it will be hot and buggy and uncomfortable.
Late in the season, it will be wet and cold and miserable.
Sometimes, it is nice, just to be out in the woods, but, not always.
My primary goal each year is to harvest at least one doe; I am not into the whole trophy thing.
Many, many hunters hunt for the meat; because they like it, because it is affordable, it is sustainable and it has been a way of life for many people.
We pay for a license and a tag or tags, which is BY FAR the leading revenue source for the state conservation efforts.
I have help processing the deer, so my per pound cost, on average is about $1 per pound of venison.
It is an inexpensive source of lean protein, having about 1/2 the fat of beef.
It has taken me time to learn the craft of making the "shot" and not taking a bad shot.
Last year, I took a doe early (day 7 of archery season) and a buck during gun season (late November) and the doe went about 40 yards and the buck a little further, but for both, it was over in a few minutes.
I ended up with over 100 pounds of ground venison, steaks, tenderloins and roast.
That makes up the meat for 1 to 2 meals a week, for my family.
I feel confident in doing my part to help keep Ohio whitetail deer population healthy, but I don't "like" the killing part and it is NOT for fun!
Thanks for discussing this.topic, Adam.
The way you describe your disdain of hunting as a recreational activity is very interested to me. Where I live in Germany hunting is a class expression as well. Just in the opposite way. Going hunting for fun is very much a upper class thing.
Not necessarily upper class (tho of course owning land or hunting rights is something out of the grasp of an indigent) but *certainly* associated with the traditional conservative political right...
Interesting, here in sweden there's not much of a class connection at all, mostly it's just associated with the north where there's waaaaaay less people and most of them live extremely rurally.
It isn't the killing of the animal that's the fun part to most people - it's the _whole experience_ of hunting; being in the woods, tracking animals, camping out, whatnot.
@@YukensStuff yep, having to outsmart the animal and go predict it's next move and at what time of day it will be at
In the US hunting is mostly a working class and upper class thing, ime. Most middle and upper-middle class (UMC) people of my acquaintance look down on hunting, unless they came from a family that hunted-but even then, some people who’ve moved up to the UMC are the most contemptuous of their roots.
The argument about us having no right to “interfere” in nature assumes the position that humans are not a part of the ecosystem along with all the other organisms. We are part of nature, we just have an advanced form of predation that is ethical because of the quick death. If we removed predators from an ecosystem and now the prey populations are peaking it is our responsibility to correct those mistakes because we caused them.
He wants us to fight elk naked like Beowulf
"mistakes"
Was about to comment this
@@colevanremortel8325 because we are omnivorous, and to get meat an animal has to die.
@@colevanremortel8325 our digestive system is meant to handle meat and less aggressive vegetation
I was an urban kid, born and raised mostly in the Tri-Cities in Southern Ontario. When I was 10 years old, my family moved up north to the small town of Wawa. Lots of hunting families there, and while I was friends with a few of their kids, I was always uncomfortable with the idea of hunting myself (although simulated hunting in games didn't bug me as much.)
One day, we were doing presentations in class, and one of my classmates did his on hunting, describing the process of cleaning an animal.
As the local city kid, I took issue with it, and interrupted the presentation halfway through. I just went "that's horrible, why would you do that?"
I was, understandably, scolded, but also... sent to the office. Everybody was upset, nobody came to my defense. I didn't *get* it. I mean, sure, tell me to shut up, but it seemed like a harsh response.
Only today after watching this video did I really get it.
Hunting wasn't something they just did for fun. It was part of the local culture, and in some cases, literally how they ate. Some of these kids lived in the even *smaller* settlements of Dubreuilville and environs, and they literally didn't have grocery stores there. Wawa had incorporated and built a couple big-box stores, but these kids and their parents probably never grew up with those conveniences. Suffice to say, I was being an even bigger asshole than I realized!
I'm glad that you finally understand. Hunting is important culturally and as a way of survival. Though I'm able to go to the grocery store, I both hunt and raise meat. Hunting may seem detestable to those who live in the city and have no exposure to it, but I think they'd have a similar reaction to the beef and pork that's sold in the stores if they'd follow those animals' lives.
As far as being sent to the principal's office, I think that was a bit extreme. Unless you were shouting the kid down, preventing him from continuing his presentation, that was uncalled for.
@@joejoslin7451 I live in a city, I’m fine with both. When you kill a farm animal, you’re putting it out of it’s misery, but it was NEVER happy. With a deer, it’s happy, and then it’s dead. Hunting is probably usually the more morally correct option, but I like tender, fatty beef.
I wouldn't say you were an asshole. Maybe just bad manners to interrupt the presentation, and that might be a good reason to scold younger you. I think your reaction was kind of natural, maybe that was your first time seeing how brutal the world is. Cause it is pretty brutal, killing and eating another animal. You have to get your hands in there, chop up the carcass and wipe away the blood. Just what this kid was presenting was closer to the truth, to the reality of it, than most people ever get exposure to these days. Most people just aren't exposed to where their food comes from: vegetables and grains from gardens and fields, and meat from animals that lived, breathed, walked around, felt pleasure, felt pain, bled, and died. It's horrible that we eat animals. But it's also natural, and it's what we've done for thousands of years. We're predators. We're exploiters. We're just like the rest of the predators that brutalize their prey because they are hungry. It's nothing to be ashamed or sorry about I think.
I also think when people make analogies to this type of reality, hunting, being a part of another culture that's not yours kind of misses the point. If you eat meat, you're still a part of the culture that kills and eats animals. You just don't ever get a chance to see the horror of it. This lets modern humans live along side of and partake in factory farming of chickens, pigs, and cows: brutality much worse than hunting at a much, much larger scale. I think it's more about exposure to the reality of the world than it is about individual culture. If you hunt, you probably see the world for what it is. And if you don't, if you just get your meat from the store, you are just blinded in a way from how horrible what you are partaking in is.
Notice the next time you're handling raw meat what it feels like. That was a living thing that you dropped on the cutting board. It's kind of brutal, tearing the meat away from the bone with a sharp knife. Notice what it's like to prepare and cook a whole chicken--you can imagine pretty much what it looked like with a head--and then use your hands to pull the meat from its bones for your leftovers. It's horrible in a way. But you do it, because it's natural and you're hungry.
@@MSandPD Well put. Those of us who hunt for food understand the cycle of life and also understand it's much more humane than factory-style farming. Homesteading is a humane alternative to hunting, as long as you don't just jam your animals into tight spaces, starve or force feed them, etc. It's not as good as hunting in the "moral" sense, but as long as you treat your animals well, they seem happy. This, BTW, is not meant to be a slam against those who live in the city or don't hunt.
Hunting is really just honest too. I connected with Adam's point that it's weird to enjoy killing, but it's better to take that moral burden on headfirst than to outsource and pretend meat is this magical substance that grows on trees behind the grocery store.
I live in northern Sweden where elk hunting is a large part of the culture. Hunters here are so very passionate about nature and the elk population. It is the care and passion that makes me think that hunting in this context is not ethically problematic
honestly, where i come from, hunting is a perfectly viable way of stocking up for the winter and it's not really viewed by anyone as "unethical" per-say unless you go out of your way to actively torment the animals or you're poaching.
Coming from a hunting family, we rarely had to buy ground beef from the store. If my dad only got one deer during the season when I was younger, we may have had to start buying beef burger in August.
Harvesting venison to me is also better as an environmental impact compared to farmed cattle. That's a big point I like to bring up when these discussions are brought up.
how much % of a carcass is mince/ground and how much is steak/stew/roast?
@@jocaingles8464 we generally only keep backstraps and about 8 pounds of stew meat, then burger the rest.
@@bruisedfrog you should keep the tenderloins too.
@@slugoo6474 forgot about those, we keep them as well. We used to get smoked and shaved hindquarter but the people we would bring that to stopped processing deer.
@@jocaingles8464 as for percentage, generally 50% is meat. The smaller the deer, the lower the percentage. The larger the deer, the higher the percentage.
Bro. I’ve never seen someone cover a topic so effectively. You ask and answer questions I didn’t even know I’d want to ask…
Here in the UK we have a virtually uncontrolled population of not just native deer but also of introduced species such as Muntjac,and no tradition of hunting.
This causes the predictable issues of over-population,disease and death on the roads.
The way things pan out,licensed hunting would be a more humane approach than the current laissez-faire.
I appreciate the balanced manner in which you approached this topic.
What do you mean, "no tradition of hunting"? No *recent* tradition maybe.
@@travispluid3603 Compared to the US or even Germany? Yes...no recent tradition of hunting.
@@travispluid3603 most of the UK were descended from agricultural peasants. Only the landowners had the time and rights to hunt
The ethics of hunting wild grapes for white wine
@Fax BRUH
@Fax That's a strange comment to spam for islam on.
Yes, remember each grape cries a tear when you pluck it from its vine.
"Why I season my bullets, not my deer"
Remember: Always use a large Caliber bullet for White wine grapes, give them a quick clean death.
I am really enjoying the videos focusing on the process and ethics of different animal food industries.
AAAAAAHHHHH!!!! PAAAAAIIIINNNN!!!!!!
I broke my hand yesterday because of the hate comments I get all the time. I was so angry that I punched a hole in my computer. Please don't hate me, dear ori
I feel sorry for you and the notifications you are getting.😅
@@o_osenxo994 lol I was so confused at first, the damn bots are getting out of hand
Yes me too
Don't tell him about the wild boars that are over running the lands...
It always amazes me as someone born and raised in Pennsylvania that deer collisions aren't a widespread thing. This time of year gets so dangerous to drive, especially with it getting darker earlier!
Man it's so comforting to hear you talk. The questions raised and answered are so interesting.
I've never hunted anything in my life but it irritates me when people act morally superior to hunters especially when they eat meat themselves
I know many people that hunt responsible but nevertheless human hunting almost extinguished many animals.
@@paxundpeace9970 and domesticating animals in extreme masses is any better?
@@paxundpeace9970 the hunting that happens where you probably live is likely the least ecologically damaging to the environment source of animal protein you can find, including milk and eggs. Sure, human hunting has been done non-sustainably in the past and is done that way in some parts of the world (mostly by people desperate to put food on their tables), but that's not really relevant to most modern hunting in the developed world where not only is it sustainable, but stopping without reintroducing predators would be ecologically catastrophic.
Same! People who decry the practice of hunting, but buy meat at the store are hypocrites. All they are doing is paying someone else to kill and prepare the animals that find their way onto their plates - and often in more inhumane ways than the hunter. At least the hunter has the satisfaction of knowing it was a clean kill and of doing all the hard work to get it onto their family's table.
@@skyhawk_4526 Animals we eat we killed to feed us, they werent kill in nature so we cant went extinct, meanwhile white rhinoes are basicly extinct bcs of fckin hunters who only take their horns and sell them to chinese to be used as medicine THAT HAS LITERALLY 0 EFFECT, killed for nothing.
Really respect Adam for acknowledging how his past view points were a product of status
That is RARE lol
Raw bias actually, Adam is beyond wrong that hunters are of low status. There are PLENTY of hunts that people pay thousands of dollars to go out on. Adam is showing a lot of his ignorance on this one speaking as an actual hunter myself. There more than just moral reason to hunt anyway. Major population control or conservation, hunters pay for land that helps animals and act as sanctuaries, population control just straight up keeps them out of cities. Don’t think you would want a bear or wild cat (meaning a bob cat or mountain lion) rolling up into an urban street where it can get to kids playing outside or pedestrians.
@@SS2LP he addresses those reasons in the vid did you head straight to the comments before watching bud?
@@SS2LP he said that he was wrong about people only hunting because they are of low status. he even said that people who pay lots of money to go on hunts are almost never doing it for food or population control, just to kill some endangered predator because they think they're hot shit. watch the video before commenting next time.
@@SS2LP Preach it! Educated urban professional parents huh? Unlike those dirty poors that HAD to hunt
I went on my first hint a few years ago. I am an animal lover and an empath. I told myself that people are biological predators for many years as a cop-out to why it's ok for me to eat (mass market) meat. I knew that I would leave my first successful hunt either as a lifelong hunter or a vegetarian. The emotional experience of it was complex and more than could be captured in a comment on youtube.
I am now a lifelong hunter. It is an experience every meat eater should have. Knowing what goes into eating meat at a very intimate level makes me respect the reality of eating meat more, and as a result, I have changed over to only ethical meats in my house. I almost exclusively eat the deer that I hunt and from local small farms. I also eat vegetarian far more often than I used to.
It isn't a cop-out. If we stopped, prey species would suffer very poor lives. I'm not saying that factory farms are great, but starving to death is so much worse.
@@enderoctanus I disagree, the only reason the animals are there and having the miserable life of a feed lot or chicken house is the meat industry. While a natural life can have a brutal end, I have no doubt the deer I hunt, who would otherwise also likely have a horrific end, still undoubtedly live better lives before then. Same for any prey species.
@@OneLocalStudent I never argued otherwise, you were saying that you were taking a cop-out by saying humans are omnivores. I was just saying it isn't a cop-out, it's a true and valid point. We need to eat meat to really be healthy, many people get unhappy when you bring that up though.
@@enderoctanus I get the sense that we are very close to the same page, but not quite on the same one. Humans are omnivores and most people would benefit from including meat in their diets. That, however, does not excuse the meat industry for their horrific practices or people for looking past those practices because addressing them is hard. It is absolutely a cop-out to me to say "oh, well, I'm biologically a predator, so I guess that means I'll continue to support an industry built on the needless suffering of animals". I just don't think the reality of our genetics excuses the general moral failure that is the meat industry and the people that continue to engage with it. Reading over my initial comment, I see how it could come off that I'm saying that about all meat eating, but really the intent is to look specifically at factory meat, and I've edited my earlier comment to reflect that.
@@OneLocalStudent I don't think you understand what I'm saying. I'm saying it isn't a cop-out to hunt for food by acknowledging that you probably require meat in your diet. I am not really talking about farmed meat, but rather hunting, which is what the topic was. I do disagree with you, incidentally, about whether you can excuse industrial meat farming, but that's unrelated to what my initial point was. I believe you can raise meat ethically. But again, I was talking about hunting, not farming.
I'm glad you clarified your position though, it makes more sense now. I think we just misunderstood each others' points.
I've had arguments with people who were staunchly against hunting, but then I ask them their opinions on fishing and they always stumble and back out of the argument.
Honestly, the "enjoyment" I get out of hunting is more just the enjoyment of being able to disappear into the woods for a couple days and not have to deal with the nonsense that comes with modern life. I don't necessarily find it fun to kill a deer--though I'm always excited when it happens because I love venison--but I do enjoy the quiet solitude of hunting season.
I share this sentiment. It’s the whole process, the excitement of everything, the near misses, the tracking and calling and trying to outwit. Truth be told, I always do have a slight pang of guilt when I harvest an animal, but the food never goes to waste.
I agree with fishing. I love going out and fishing, but it's more therapeutic just sitting on the pier watching the ocean. If I catch a fish, then I'll eat it. I don't enjoy killing the fish and harvesting the meat, but i do it just a means to get food.
I agree , I'm always "Happy " to be feeding my family fresh organic meat for the next year with a successful hunt !
I agree, the harvest of the animal itself is more the culmination of a journey spanning several days in the wilderness, often with a friend, than just the enjoyment of killing something.
I also think it’s the process more than anything. It’s not that the killing is fun, it’s the culmination of a day’s work and it’s satisfying to be rewarded with meat.
Adam as a hunter: "Why I season my bullets, not my deer"
Best one so far 😆
LOL!
It's worth mentioning that some farmers choose to use shotgun shells loaded with rock-salt as a less-likely-to-be-lethal deterrent for pest animals. Theoretically, you could season your bullet.
It starts seasoning your meat right away as well as prevents the fresh wound flesh going bad!
You win today
This has to be the best cooking/food channel on UA-cam
All in all a well done and balanced video on what can be a contentious topic. Bravo!
I find that when you have to personally kill the animal that you plan to eat, it's a more sobering experience and you respect the sacrifice as opposed to grabbing a pack in the refrigerated section of a store. And most people who hunt that I know echo that sentiment. It's overall a fulfilling and gratifying experience rather than, "fun" in those terms.
Theirs always some level of celebration, but it's mostly because it's the conclusion of something which starts with hunting lotteries, talking to landowners, setting up your hunting area, ect. Afterwards, the process of loading a your quarry into your truck/car is always a sobering experience. I have seen plenty of men go into their vehicles and sob for a few minutes.
AISURU.TOKYO/angelina 💞
( ˘ ³˘)👙 18 years and over
UA-cam: This is fine
Someone: Says "heck"
UA-cam: Be gone
#однако #я #люблю #таких #рыбаков #Интересно #забавно #девушка #смешная #垃圾
As a counterpoint to this, there are also those douches who mount the heads of their kills on their wall and brag about them to their friends. I personally believe these are the same kids that used to burn ants with a magnifying glass, just grown up.
Dealing death can be and should be, in my opinion, a sobering experience, not something to be taken so lightly.
@@nottheguru I agree with you about the heads on walls but only to a point. People who are killing only for the head are gross, but keeping the skull along with all the meat is not a bad thing. Having that trophy on the shelf or wall is like a souvenir of a great memory. There is a story behind every mount, and that’s why people cherish them. If you asked me whether I would keep just the head or just the body, I would choose the body every time and be satisfied. But if I can keep both, then I’m a happy camper because I have something to attach a memory too.
As a vegetarian, this is the thing that bothers me the most about meat. I’m still conscious about the ethics of production and the environmental impact, but seeing people treat meat as some plastic wrapped item at a grocery store rather than a past lived animal or a carcass makes me really aware of the disconnect most people have with their food. In that respect, the “non-douchey” hunters and butchers garner a lot of respect from me, as they actually know what goes into bringing an animal from dead to the table
"They are just good at being alive." Wish I could be like a deer.
Somewhere there's a whitetail deer that would be envious of your ability to post on UA-cam....wait sorry, he just got hit by a tractor trailer.
I hope that whatever troubles you is alleviated someday soon, and you find something that makes you feel alive and happy :)
You’re still here
Good at being alive doesn't mean a good life. The amount of trail cams I've seen with down right traumatizing things on it is insane. Deer with their sides flayed open, bucks who have decapitated another buck and their antlers were locked with the head of the dead buck. Or the time my uncle had a nice security fence installed where in less than a month three deer impaled themselves on it and he had to remove the security part of the fence.
This is rather pointing out that the populations of those animals is increasing. Not that the are living a long life.
My mother grew up in the 1920's in WV. She said she didn't see a live deer until she was a teenager and it was in a deer park. Deer was survival food. Other food took more time/money/resources. Today, it's a rare day I don't see live deer or a dead one on the road.
Man, Adam, I am a recently new sub, but I absolutely love all your stuff, and it has actually interested me in cooking again!
You bring so much rationale and logic without any pretentious.
This whole topic of hunting and farming animals was always hard to articulate for me, but this video basically nailed it! But you always take it to the next level bringing all the science into it. You really help me become a better cook and better person!
Being someone who's lived and hunted in Northern Wisconsin a good part of their life, I can assure you that for the most part it's not about the "harvest"; it's about getting together with friends / family spending time together and bonding both in and out of the woods creating memories. AKA, if the "harvest" was the destination, it's more about the journey. Sure there are "trophy hunters" out there, but they are a very small percentage of the overall group.
This is completely setting aside the notion of knowing where the food that you consume comes from. No cocktails of steroids or other medications over the life of the animal or pumping the meat full of water to increase weight (and sale price) is what you get from harvesting your own food. Ever wonder why meat from the grocery store is so watery when it thaws?
Society as a whole has become too complacent about their diets and what they choose to eat. As long as it's done responsibly there's only benefits to "getting your hands dirty"; whether it's in the garden or from harvesting wild game.
Oh, and it tastes WAY better than anything you'll grab from the store ;-) Just sayin'...
you celebrate getting together by stealing lives lol
As another person who grew up in and hunted in Wisconsin for a large chunk of my life, I very much agree with what you're saying. Hunting also gives you a greater appreciation for the nature and animals that live in it. It's hard for some people that have not done it to understand what it's like. To them it's just about killing animals, but to any true hunter (and I'm not talking about the people who just hunt to kill, which is only a small fraction) it is so much more than that. It's a way to connect with your family/friends, and increase your understanding and appreciation for the wildlife and nature around you. It's also a fun challenge, as you have to be smart and it's not always just an easy thing like some would think where you just have to find an animal and shoot it. We would spend many weekends practicing, preparing, and setting up for our hunts (again, I'm not talking about these fake hunters who go on these curated hunts to a farm where they breed deer or another animal and then bring it right to the person to get shot). There's nothing like watching the sunrise from a duck blind over the river, you can't tell me that's not fun and special.
Exactly, this is exactly right. Only people that hunt understand the feeling. In my family, hunting is just as good as Christmas if not better. At Christmas everyone has their own family’s and a lot of the time they are apart, but when hunting season comes around everyone comes together for lots of laughs and memories. There’s nothin like hunting season
@@plocky401 It’s almost like humans have to pretend we aren’t an apex predator… to resist our natural urges… maybe, not even identify with who we are naturally?
😐 you can get together with friends and family, spend time together, bond and create memories without killing
I’ve been raised in a family that has valued hunting for generations. I won’t deny that there is a certain thrill to finding a deer you’ve been hunting or tracking, but I think the best part of hunting is the semi-meditative trance that comes from just sitting and really enjoying nature. I find myself way to often glued to a screen, so getting away and finding some peace in nature is always so nice to me. Also, in my family, the meat never goes to waste. We make sure to get as much meat as we can to turn into summer sausage, steaks, ground venison, or roasts. I think hunting is relatively misunderstood (you made a lot of good points about not so kind people using them for a cool factor), because when taught correctly I absolutely believe it’s a wonderful way to teach young people patience, responsibility (especially with guns), and just a great way to get into nature.
Seems to me you could get a very similar experience just learning to live in nature, or if you have to hunt, hunt for mushrooms which don't feel fear and pain.
@@macrumpton I’d rather sustain the wild life population and fund forest preservation projects and not support the biggest contributor of green house gases (factory farms)
Yeh even the canned hunts plenty of places catch feral hogs for example in the us to use. And some stuff over in Africa etc.. dont get sadly conservation becomes a economic issue . So what if that's the last x I can kill it and feed my family.. or keep it from destroying my crops.. it's A very very very complex issue . Not specific right or wrong.. of course there is jerks and ass holes on each side..
I was raised in a culture where hunting and butchering animals is so normal that westerners would often think we're acting like an "edgy teenager" when we say we want to kill something.
Stressed out, go hunt a boar/deer. Using a Trad bow and arrow, preferably. For the challenge.
Hungry for fresh meat, go to the farm and butcher your own meat. Better than 10-day-old frozen meat. And you get to kill and skin your own food. You know how it died and how it was prepared.
I don't understand "civilized people" sometimes.
@@macrumpton
Mushrooms kill you if you eat them so you'd just be killing mushrooms for sport.
And, there's a lot of evidence that mushrooms feel a form of pain.
Not the same type of pain we feel but it's still a form of pain.
What an interesting and valuable perspective, thank you for your work on making this video Adam! 😁😁
The area I live in is having the disease problem. There have been less and less hunters so the populations have grown a lot larger and now are seeing a lot of disease that can be harmful if the population is not back under control. So our next hunting season this year has been extended to hopefully help cull some of the problem and get things back on the right track.
Being born and raised in upcountry Maui, its absolutely necessary to hunt to keep deer population from growing out of control.
Albeit, i've never hunted deer, but I appreciate those that do hunt back home. Good eating, quick to dispatch deer and wild pig, and generally good folk.
I remember my dad came home with an old deer that had almost no teeth left. I was very much surprised but still it peaked my interest when I heard that most starve when they lose teeth. Steven Rinella has a great podcast and show where he talks about this stuff. highly recommended.
Meat Eater podcast.
That's actually how I perked up in the middle of this episode. The deer I shot as a kid had no molars left and would have starved over the winter. Now, I know that I actually gave him a way more humane death (although I'm still vegetarian and was when I killed him way back when).
@@mx.murphy why were you hunting if you aren’t eating it? That’s just killing for killing to me.
@@slugoo6474 sport, deer are deer. Do you cry when an ant dies?
@@phoomphgaming5538 brother I hunt deer. But I eat them. I’m asking a valid question. Do you not see what is kind of odd about a vegetarian killing a deer?
Man, this was some good journalism. Kudos, Adam.
Love the transition you have always. It’s unexpected and brings a laugh to me. Thanks Adam.
I kinda think everybody should experience the actual harvesting of the foods they eat at least once in their lifetime, gives everybody a new respect for farmers and ranchers everywhere. Nothing wrong with subsistence hunting!
My kids aren't old enough to hunt yet, but they've helped me process deer before. I've got the same feeling, if you're going to eat something, especially an animal, you should know what you're eating and respect it.
Substistence hunting is only valid if you have no other way to survive. If you have a food market that's accessible from your house, it's not subsistence.
@@Generic_text871 IMO hunting is preferable over buying from a market. The ethics and environmental impact of Big Meat are not great.
@@EricGranata I agree. I just don't believe it's either ethical or ecological to eat meat in 2021. What this video doesn't do is ask if it's ethical to eat meat full stop, not just compared to farmed animals.
There's plenty of great alternatives to be explored and I'd like to see Adam look into that.
@@Generic_text871 coming as a mother, i disagree that eating meat is unethical. Pregnancy takes a huge amount of nutrition, and lactation much more so. Yes, you can grow babies vegetarian, of course, but it is much much harder. Even just a little meat, especially liver, makes it so much easier. Heme iron is much more highly bioavailable and that is a big deal for women, especially where you cannot just go down to the store for vitamins. A man does not have to be as concerned as nutrition, but it is literally life and death for some women. I suggest that you look at a another picture of life before making such a blanket statement.
Great viewpoints Adam. I grew up in the arctic circle, now live just below it. Hunting is still close to my heart, to me it's second nature. I also do feel that there is somewhat of a connection to Hunting and human nature, just from our evolutionary history. Nevertheless I do respect your reluctance.
yo yo yo it's gigachad
Your comment goes perfectly with your profile pic
Extremely based comment
If we as a species still got our meat primarily from hunting, we'd either A) eat much less meat or B) hunt animals to extinction and be forced to become vegan. Farming and ranching is why our species became so successful. I'm all for ethical hunting, but it is, by and large, an unnecessary activity for human survival in the modern world. Keeping wild populations in control? Absolutely. And, if you're going to kill an animal, at least make its death worth something, put that meat and hide to good use.
based
appreciate you sharing your introspection
really well-formed arguments. that's why i love adam's videos.
Fun fact: Pennsylvania is the state your most likely to hit a deer with your car in. 1/10 Pennsylvanians have hit a deer with their car.
As a Pennsylvanian Can Confirm.
I live in Wisconsin. I've hit 5 in the span of 25 years. Take that anecdotal statement for what it is... But if you said 1/10 Wisconsinites have hit a deer, I'd say that was way too low.
I hit a deer in PA!
Yeup, I'm in Ohio, and while I'm far too lazy to hunt, I've killed two deer so far. And it cost me a lot more than a bullet (well Slug, no rifle in ohio) and a deer tag.
South Carolina might be #2🤓🍻
Most wild game like deer meet their end in violent predator deaths. The bullet/arrow from a human hunter could be considered a mercy compared to being torn to pieces and eaten alive by a bear or pack of wolves.
Exactly. And None of the other hunters I know , are out for " the fun of killing" . Every one I know has a DEEP respect for the animals they harvest for food .
i have a big family that is poor so me and my uncle go and bring one deer and one bear each and split the meat and use the pelts for winter clothes. I have a deep respect for those animals because they keep me alive through the winter when stores run low and the bank account runs lower.
Finally someone who gets it
"Fun" fact... In Germany you are legally prohibited from using bow and arrow to hunt, because apparently the law assumes archers to be such bad shots that it would cause "needless suffering"...
None of that justifies, we as humans, killing for sport or fun or a hobby.
I started to watch this channel because I liked cooking, I stay because I really like Adam; who seems extremely honest and tells it like it is! Great Job Adam!!!🙂
This was a great video, I do hunt, we usually get several deer, elk, and turkey tags each year and I also help butcher out farm animals on the side. When I went to college I was somewhat shocked at all the people who were adamantly against hunting and sometimes even fishing.
I had to break down how the system worked and how we were putting money back into the land we hunt and going for a sustainable population for what the land can hold.
One girl asked me if I felt bad when I took an animals life and I said “yes, it’s always sad to see a loss of life.” Then she asked why I was smiling and happy in the photo I showed her and I explained that every part of that animal was used, And it was food on the table for my family. what we couldn’t eat went to the dogs or was used in some other way.
We also talked about the ethics of hunting vs farming. And how sometimes far animals are not treated well. I was able to win her over a bit but I can still see her points and respect her choice on what she eats.
I think many people just don’t understand the process and how hunting is still a major part of many people life’s.
Hey, Adam, have you ever talked about the struggle for seafood sustainability? Where I live, that topic hits very close to home, the whole issue of where fish and shellfish come from and if they really are what the package says they are and all that.
Or how about the exotic meat trade? wet markets in china, local delicacies like guinea pig in South America, and so on.
I don't think he's the kind of UA-camr who would talk about wet markets without actually being there, or talking to various experts on that matter. On the other hand, I really hope he talks about seafood sustainability, but I think he must've addressed similar topics before.
BTW the wet markets are becoming less now. I remember going to morning fairs with my parents in my childhood, and witnessing farmers butcher their chicken on-the-spot for us. Not anymore. There must've been lots of regulations published over the past decades. The wet markets with exotic foods would be a totally different topic. I've never seen one in my lifetime, though, but I know most of us never eat bats.
He has talked about seafood sustainability briefly in his "adam's diet food" video.
Chinese Cooking Demystified has wet market tour *edit: videos. It’s really nothing different than a western farmers market- exact same concept
I believe he very briefly covered this in his "Adam's diet food", but nowhere near in depth like some other topics
@@colinhendry6116 the food and safety standards are lacking a lot more than their western counter parts but that’s a general issue in the developing east.
“Why I shoot my videos, not my meals”
This video has actually opened my eyes a fair bit I'll admit. Cheers for the vid
Just discovered Adam's videos recently. I really identify with his approach to the world, and had a very similar evolution in my feelings about hunting. Also grew up in PA surrounded by hunters, but not being one. It's still not something I feel like doing, but I understand and respect it far more now
Thank you for your objectivity in this topic. So often I see hunting demonized and/or being confused with poaching. It is also so important to keep the health of populations of wild animals and the emotional and ethical ramifications in mind.
More ethical than eating caged artificially bred ones
@Fax chill
There hardely anyone that relies solely on hunted meat.
If hunting for food is a genuine necessity, I have no problem with it.
But let’s be real, people mostly hunt for sport, for the “fun” of it.
That is not more ethical.
@@BluesChanteuse But for each kg of wild game you eat, you probably eat one kg less of farmed meat. And unless you think farmed meat is more ethical, that's a tie or a win for hunting.
@@BluesChanteuse and the largest scientific association on diet says you don't have to eat meat either. Both are things you choose to do for pleasure. Don't judge people who like hunting lol, maybe they're better calmer people to other humans if they get to kill animals.
@@BluesChanteuse Technically, you don't need meat either. You just enjoy meat. You're not morally superior.
Unless I am in a restaurant, the only red meat my family eats is from deer that I have harvested (we eat about four per year). And I have used a lot of Adam's recipes to good success, so thank you, Adam.
Short answer is : Yes.
Long answer is : Absolutely yes.
Thank you for attending my TED talk.
I think where the “enjoyment” comes from is the satisfaction of killing, skinning, gutting, carrying to the vehicle, butchering, and cooking it. It makes it so much more special and makes you feel like you are taking from nature while also help keeping it balanced
It's be like getting the enjoyment of hitting a bullseye, except the bullseye could run away, and you have to sneak up on the bullseye.
Yeah I think it’s definitely to do with the process of getting the meat from the wild to the dinner plate. You’re providing food for yourself and family from scratch, and a lot of skill, effort and time goes into it. Not to mention you can be tracking one deer for days or even weeks sometimes before you kill it. Honestly, hunters are some of the biggest animal advocates. If they didn’t preach sustainable hunting, they’d have no deer left to hunt.
Yeah.. and it also sensitizes us towards how much it takes to get a steak at the table.. it may even lead to less meat consumption
@@dcred123...and the bullseye is a living breathing being that you are killing for your own pleasure
@@Friek555 would you rather I get my foods from animals that are crowded together, and live withing the same building their whole life? Or would you rather I get my food from animals that live free, and die instantly and humanly? Hunting is more ethical than grocery stores, and it's exhilarating to harvest your own meat, not just basic pleasure. Humans are evolved to hunt
In my experience most people who are actually avid hunters do care about the most ethical way to harvest the animal and not as a machismo trophy showcase.
Out of curiosity, what do you think about bow hunting? To me it seems like it increases suffering compared to rifle hunting purely for machismo. (I admit I am an ethical vegan, which colors my perspective. It's also worth noting that hunting is significantly less harmful than factory farmed animals)
@@12345678900987654372 that's a good call out. I think bow hunting can definitely produce a clean suffering free shot, but it's incredibly more difficult. There is definitely some level of manhood measuring that comes along with bow hunting in my experience
@@wcrb15 I agree that bow hunting can be very effective, but my main problem is that a lot of people don’t practice enough and don’t care about their equipment enough.
@@zeroedinwithzeke4059 I was trawling (not trolling!) through the comments looking for bow hunting. I’m not a hunter, but I DO enjoy both firearms and archery. With high caliber/powered ammunition, a relatively quick death a reasonably achievable skill. ( I’m not a fan of .223/5.56 for deer, which isn’t legal in many places). That said, amongst a couple hunters I know, there are enough discussions of tracking wounded deer that I wonder just how much practice, preparation and proper equipment goes into it. But, the majority of folks I know get pretty quick kills.
Bow hunting, OTOH, it seems that tracking is FAR more common. Often for miles.
The problem is that, unlike high powered rifles, the wound channel created by an arrow is relatively narrow, and can be much more dramatically affected by a less than ideal shot, or bone strike, than a bullet. The wound channel created by a compound bow with a broad head is maybe 1.5-2 inches(3-5 cm) and if it doesn’t intersect a major artery, etc, death can take several minutes, or even hours or days in worst cases. It’s not just skill, but luck, stress and “buck fever” can all negativity impact the “ quality” of the shot, and speed of death.
A supersonic bullet ( or 12 ga slug)
, on the other hand, creates a HUGe wound channel (3-5 inches/ 5-12 cm) and is relatively unaffected by bone, and a shot that is off by 2, 3, or more inches is usually so devastating, it’s a quick death, regardless.
My only riposte against that idea is the number of bear, cougar and other predator hunters. None of them are viable meat sources, and the ONLY reason to hunt them is for the thrill/etc.
The self awareness at the beginning is appreciated
Really good reflection on the class/perspective issue.
Hey I grew up in rural north east PA (now in the city). I wasn't a hunter but alot of my friends were. I was taught about hunting growing up (we had a holiday for it) and it teaches you that all life is important and really puts things in perspective that we are all apart of a chain. My colleagues and classmates in college are quite shocked and stunned when they hear I used to help with butchering the harvest and buying turkeys and deer from classmates and family friends growing up. Its really taught me that I value having that childhood and not being afraid of death, but instead accepting it as apart of the condition of being a creature on this planet.
Interestingly, most vegans/vegetarians I know (including me) are actually *more* okay with hunted meat than with other types, mostly for exactly the reasons you outline-- I personally choose not to eat wild-hunted meat, because I live in an area with abundant access to reasonably sustainable vegan protein sources, but if someone put a gun to my head and gave me the choice between a factory-farmed steak and a cut of venison sustainably hunted by a private individual I would 100% choose the latter.
yeah, if you eat meat you really have no room to complain about hunting.
Thanks for bringing this up.
I was thinking that if you're going to be a meat eater, ethically, isn't it better to be self sufficient and hunting\harvesting only what you need and will consume than supporting the commercial meat industry and its questionable processes?
Well, technically that does adhere to the definition of veganism, which is to reduce animal suffering as much as possible and practicable. The issue is ultimately when there is plenty of choice and people still choose the option that causes animal suffering, which is most people in the developed nations.
Thank you for making a thoughtful video. As a hunter and the father and husband of hunters (yes my wife and daughters hunt)I appreciate the way you show hunting as a sustainable way to put meat on the table and not as a barbaric thing to do. We rarely buy meat from a store anymore. Wild game is far more healthy and about as organic as it gets.
As a family we do our absolute best to make a harvest as quickly as possible. IMO if you ethically hunt an animal it gives you a greater respect for it, you realize how amazing these animals are.
On the question of pleasure in hunting, I was looking for a good analogy to explain it. The word "harvest" is really good for this. The hunt itself would best be compared to that of hunting for wild mushrooms or the like. It's the exploration of and partaking of nature's bounty. As for the kill, it should be like the proper wielding of a sickle and having a quality sickle that is properly maintained and sharpened. Other analogies that might be explored include what kind of pleasure is there in getting a good sear on a steak. What kind of pleasure does a good chef take in the proper charring of flesh? Those uncomfortable with the idea that someone takes pleasure in taking an animals life need to be careful not to assume that something intentionally sadistic is going on with this. Yeah, if your vegan, you might still feel this way, but do try to understand it is in no way sadism for sadism's sake.
Sometimes it is. Fox hunting in feudal England was purely for the sport of watching something get eviscerated alive.
@@uirusux And, the lord of the land would forbid an commoner from hunting on the royal land to feed themselves. The lords and ladies simply couldn't allow their pleasure to be depleted by the hungry. Makes me wonder what kind of punishment was given those poachers.
@@uirusux Oh, and I still don't get trophy hunting, particularly of endangered species, other than whatever power lust the wealthy want to express, some kind of conspicuous consumption.
@@uirusux No it wasn't, if that was the case then you would simply trap the foxes and put them in a pen with wild dogs. Fox hunting is about following the hounds on horseback and the thrill of the chase, the kill at the end is actually a let down.
Bro people who don’t understand the pleasure of succeeding at a hunt are low key lizard men. It’s hardwired into our biology to hunt. It’s something innate. The ‘pleasure’ is the same of winning of succeeding at a complex task that you put all your effort into. It’s outwitting an opponent and feeding yourself and your family.
Hunting is meditating with guns. Even when bored you can’t drift out, you have to be mindful at all times. Those who have not hunted don’t know what it’s like to wake up before dawn and put your gear on and trudge into a forest while you can still see stars. And quietly enter your tree stand or blind on the first day of the season in an area you did reconnaissance all summer to set up for that day. They don’t know what it’s like to be mindful of which way the wind is blowing ever few minutes and planning your stalk to where you think animals are or will be. They don’t know how mentally draining it is to be mindful of your voice, or movements. How you walk taking care not to break any sticks or crinkle leaves on the floor. The heart pounding when you hear a deer or turkey respond to your call, not knowing which direction it is. Is it coming closer, is it moving away? They don’t know the pleasure of actually understanding an animal and how it’s thinking by observing it’s behaviour. The stress of not knowing which action helps your success and which one will spook the animal. They don’t know the difficulty of spotting a herd far away and planning a stalk that takes two hours to get to a better shooting position, only for your silhouette spooking them an hour in because the sun moved.
Hunting is fucking hard. That’s why it’s called hunting and not eating. There is fair chase to it. There is honor. You are facing creatures who are physically stronger, faster and alert than you. All you have is your mind and stamina. Nothing is guaranteed. You can drop thousands for top shelf gear, but if you are hunting in wilderness and not a game ranch, failure is more likely then not.
After all that effort and the mental drain it does. When you get a potential shot and line it up with your heart trembling. All you can focus on in that moment after all the sweet and tears is to not ruin the chance. You need to make that ethical kill shot that will end the hunt. You don’t have a clear shot, there is a bush in the way that can deflect your bullet. You have to wait until he moves. You call him. His ears stand up and he looks spooked. Is he going to run? No, he moves forward to investigate. Past the bush. Now or never. Your hand is shaking- you breath to stabilize it. You practiced all summer on the shooting range for this. Do you have a lung shot? Yes! You take it. He drops. Then he gets up and runs. Did you miss? Guilt and fear know at you. But you have to wait a half hour before you track to allow him to bleed out if he is hit. You finally go to investigate and find him a few meters over the hill. It was a perfect shot.
You smile and relief washes over you. That is the pleasure of hunting. If you don’t feel pleasure at that moment then you aren’t human.
It’s relief. And after that passes. There is guilt and a bitter sweet feeling. An animal has lost its life at your hands. How will you justify that. You get to work in field dressing him. It’s late and you turn on a head lamp. You cannot let the meat go to waste. Every bit will be used to honor his life. You realize what played out is the same cycle that has gone in time immemorial before the trappings of agricultural society and modernity cut you off. You are content in fulfilling the role that your ancestors did. You went out and brought a kill in to feed yourself and your family.
You gave that deer a quick death, much more humanely than it would likely have had otherwise. Your tag money will preserve this public land from development and ensure animals thrive here. Modernity cannot be turned back, but hunting allows us to remember a time before and embrace our role as custodians of the wilderness our civilization has at its mercy. For the sake of all creatures.
You are playing a dangerous game Adam, now the ytp-ers have many voice clips of "rectal proctology" and the like
Re: Douchey trophy hunters...
I'm not a hunter, and I don't ever plan to be, but watching Louis Theroux's "Weird Weekends: African Hunting Holiday" changed my perspective on the subject. Previously I was mostly apathetic about the issue of hunting, with a slight lean towards "That seems unethical/cruel". But I've since learned that the hunting industry, in places such as Africa, is what funds the majority of land conservation, breeding programs, and poaching protection against the very species that many of us hate to see hunted. It's a very counter-intuitive subject, and one I'm not happy with, but the reality is the most of us non-hunters aren't willing to spend tens of thousands, or even hundreds of thousands of dollars, on a recurring basis to protect these speicies- hunters do though.
Doesn’t make then any less of douches…
Yea you are absolutely right these douche bags do help preserve nature more than most common people but it’s not because of the goodness in them, it’s just so they can get the high from killing an animal…
That’s why it’s annoying when the hunters say this themselves “we hunt to conservative the population”…then why hunt to begin with just pay the money…
Yessir, here in California we make up a massive amount of funding for fish and game and other departments. Also, hunters are considerate about their environment. We try and be considerate to other people who get anxiety from people with rifles in the middle of the woods, or who don't want to see a dead animal. Except foreigners don't seem to care about what they do. They leave the forests with a mess where they camped or they hang deer in sight of hikers. That's my experience and other hunters that I've talked to.
Agreed. Just about to write something like this, it is highly looked down upon but if people were to look at rhe bigger picture they might understand why.
@@Scaraptor619 Mainly because it does adds an adventure element to it.
With a lot of situations, such as with lion hunting, male lions are often a problem to deal with, both because a large percentage of the males are loners which makes it far more likely to be injured and forced to start targeting easier prey such as humans, or you deal with massive issues where attempts to encourage more diversity in the population end in tears with a new male slaughtering the cubs.
Both younger adult males and older ones are problems there.
Plus the local humans get a good cut of the money by being hired as guides, housing, food, and more are boosts to the local economy.
Without that portion of it, a lot of the locals will be more inclined to poaching the animals or just exterminating them as threats to their lives and livestock, or to expand farm land.
Most hunters also want the species to still be around in the future and for the wilderness to still be around. The hunts are extremely regulated and expensive, the ones that aren't are normally poaching situations rather than the hunting expeditions people want.
You also have situations where some animals need a culling anyway such as in Alaska with the moose and elk populations, the pipelines mean that there are less losses and more making it to the point where they aren't easy to kill by predators who look elsewhere.
Or for a messed up situation, look at the feral hog messes, there aren't that many people who want to spend their time hunting them down despite everything and those are a downright menace that need to be wiped out as a menace to everything.
Its not an easy topic that is true, i am pretty sure the people who do those things would also pay for it if id didnt go to conserving the land and animals. But it does, so at least they have a godd outlet.
It's very interesting how hunting maps on class distinction in the US vs in Europe. In most of Europe, it's considered rather an activity for the well-off (even in countries where it's rather widespread and cross-class, as it often is in Central Europe, it's a high status activity). Also, it's much more embedded in rituals & traditions.
When I was a kid, my dad got on a list with the state troopers. If a deer was killed by a car, and the driver didn't want it, they called people on the list. We got at least four or five deer that way over the years, and ate venison for months that otherwise would have just been eaten by scavengers and decomposers in the woods.
I had a buddy who would show up late to high school with the excuse of "I saw a fresh deer on the side of the road"
I’m glad you brought up why you disliked the idea of hunting for “fun”. It’s something I hear often, and people who have never killed an animal when hunting don’t really understand how, as you said, complicated it is. It is a mix of pride, joy, sorrow, and guilt all mixed together. I am sure most hunters agree on the disdain had for hunting endangered species.
Unfortunately the fishing community also has dirtbags who take whatever they want whenever they want, and take however much they want. Some people fish in a way called "snagging" where they throw large heavy hooks across rivers for the purpose of dragging a fish to shore.
@@speedbird1598 I agree with you on that the fishing community can be or is just as bad as hunting can be. I disagree on your usage of snagging as an example of this. Snagging is completely legal and not easy. A better example would be the people who just litter all over the place when fishing or don’t follow the laws and regulations.
@@slugoo6474 I don't know where you live but it I'd absolutely not legal in Washington state, Oregon, or BC. It is not sport fishing, all you do is drag a hook through water and wait to rip through a fish
@@speedbird1598 here in the midwest, that's an easy way to lose hooks to rocks
Hunters really do seem to love nature as much or more than many people in the cities or suburbs. They do seem to understand their place as the Apex predators and want to take a deer in the cleanest way possible, especially in areas where the predators are wiped out (or not populated enough to control the population) as you mentioned. There will be the dicks that want trophies or dont care about a good kill, but I would see those as a minority or a "one and done" type hunter where they take that trophy and talk about the mystic hunt for generations to come, but most hunters do not seem to go that way.
either way, your views can vary, but the good things that come from controlling populations to save people and their cars from either injury or financial ruin while simultaneously helping the deer in the area by having a steady population is something I am thankful for
I grew up in the Berkshite mountains of western Massachusettes where the coyote population has eliminated rabbits and ground birds. Our " back yard" was a 60 acre field surrounded by woods with a spring fed pond in the middle. It was very common to see deer out grazing , but it was a real joy during the birthing time as he does would come up into the actual yard to have their fawns and the would nibble on our bushes until the fawn could stand and walk. We thought this was to have protection while the mother and fawn were at their most vulnerable. And yes, we took1 buck each fall as camp meat.
Very educational! Thanks!
I enjoy hunting not for the actual harvest, I just enjoy the stalking and skills it requires. And I can also verify the animal is healthy and are well, so I can ensure *I’m* eating well. I took my mother “hunting” once, except instead of firearms we brought cameras, and she had the greatest time of her life. Also my dogs like the fresh bones too, and homemade liver treats for them.
I take my camera and tripod with me when i go hunting. More often than not I end up just taking pictures. It is hard to explain the joy of providing a healthy environment for the wildlife and watching them thrive. The comparatively small amount that you harvest vs what you provide is often lost on people. Total cost wise it would be far cheaper to just buy meat from the store. The investment benefits the wildlife far more than it benefits you the hunter.
Same, it's the outdoor experience, not the actual hunting itself.
Where I live in Italy we need to hunting to protect our farms and environment, wild boar population is out of control and they are pests, so we gotta kill them. Also their ham is incredible
important to note the boar are overpopulated because native wolves and bear are no longer widespread in Italy. Same story in the states as well. Take away the native predators and deer, board and other prey species wreak havoc.
15-20 wild boars charging your backyard?
@@Plamler here in texas 15-20 boar in your backyard is a common occurence when you are more than 10 minutes out of town
That's also the purpose behind the apex predator hunts Adam dismissed. The locals would have to kill them to prevent them preying on livestock, this way they can bring some additional wealth into the community.
I REALLY agree with the beginning of the video, I've always thought it was wrong to enjoy it.
Most of the enjoyment in hunting, for myself, comes from relaxing in the woods for a day.
you can’t do that without shooting and killing something? i mean if it’s for food do you but like it’s a bit strange to find killing anything relaxing
@@pinkmenace6836 the killing is not relaxing, and I eat everything that I kill. I would guess that at least 3/4 of the meat that my family eats I either raise and butcher myself or hunt for.
@@pinkmenace6836 killing is a minute part of the hunting experience yet is the aspect that gets brought up the most by anti hunters and others who either don't understand or haven't experienced it because it is meant to draw an emotional reaction. The majority of hunting time is spent scouting the woods for activity and figuring out what the animals are doing. That's before the hunt even begins. Then most of the time after is spent sitting and waiting for an opportunity to even see an animal, which isn't guaranteed, let alone have a good opportunity to make an ethical shot on one. The killing happens quick. Then comes time to field dress the animal and find a way to get it to a road for pickup which can be a long and difficult task
These are just some of the things associated with what hunters do. There is much more to the story on a historical, personal and emotional level that can be difficult to explain because it means different things to different people. Just try to be open minded about the practice and understand that killing is a fraction of the overall experience
The part about the class divide was interesting, because where I live, hunting is mostly a privilege of the wealthy (you have to either own a piece of woodland or lease it for hunting). We have integrated private hunters into forest management - since most natural predators like wolves and bears are almost extinct in the wild, the populations of deer and even moreso boar have to be managed so as to not damage the woods too much. The administration gives out numbers of animals to take down and the hunters - contrary to expectations - actually prefer to take down fewer animals than they're supposed to, since hunters like lively forests.
yeah this is not the case for the united states tbh. this might be it for the UK, but in the USA, sometimes you need a good catch to help supplement food. I genuinely cannot think of a single wealthy person I have come across here that was an avid hunter outside the guy that runs midwayusa (but he wasn't rich to start and was already into it).
we can even see things from the great depression here where people hunted to survive, it really is more a hobby of the poor and rural areas in the US.
@@ColonizerChan So the gigantic industry for luxury and exotic hunting that exists primarily in the US is for people that can’t afford to go to the grocery store?
“Look kids, we’re not going to starve I flew to Alaska and shot a moose”
"...since most natural predators like wolves and bears are almost extinct in the wild..."
You need to do more research...
@@lkilkenny9426 Or you just missed the "where I live" part. Wolves are slowly coming back though.
@@NotMeButAnother - Slowly???
When wolves were placed on the Endangered Species List, a plan for bringing them back to sustainable numbers and then removing them from the list was devised. Wolf populations passed the number for delisting in 2012. Now, in some areas, wolves are at *NINE TIMES* that number, are devastating the numbers of other species and livestock, but idiotic federal judges keep shooting down delisting so they can be managed and brought back into balance with their habitat.
This reminds me of Temple Grandin's quote: "Nature is cruel, but we don't have to be." I'd love to see a video about her work sometime! It would fit really well into the recent food ethics topics you've been covering recently.
I've seen her movie when I was a young kid. It was really something else.
@@mfmfyt wut?
I don't take women's thoughts seriously.
As a vegan I personally have much more respect for hunters than people who buy and are disconnected from what they’re eating also they have a nicer, more natural and sometime longer lives
I was thinking the same thing. I’m a vegetarian btw. You might disagree with me on this, but I actually don’t think there is anything inherently wrong with eating meat. I think if animals are harvested humanely and treated humanely throughout their lives, thats okay. But the fact is, the majority of the meat people eat is not like that at all. Its crowded, they’re injected with steroids, chickens legs are broken, it’s all terrible. And the industry gets away with it. This, on top of the meat industry being a terrible place for the humans that work in it. My vegetarianism is a protest for the drastic reform of the meat industry.
I appreciate and support your decision to be vegan, and want to thank you for posting this. As a hunter, I have utmost respect for the animal and harvest everything possible to feed my family. And I agree with your point, which I think is that more people need to understand where their meat comes from and the process that is undertaken to provide that meat.
@@people-are-trees5661 Many countries do farm animals humanely.
From State College. Grew up on Tussey Mountain. Live in Boalsburg. Sounds like we had identical upbringings. I'm curious what part of Centre County you lived in? Love your channel btw! I've found them very helpful in my own cooking journey, which I've only started late in life unfortunately lol. Very interesting video. Hunting wasn't something my academic family did but I lived amongst farms, so as I grew up I came to appreciate what hunting was about and saw that folks who had less money than my parents could fill a freezer pretty full in a good season. I'm a little bit country now, having worked in the college of agriculture for many years and worked on farms every summer when I was a teenager. I have a lot of friends that hunt, and I fish all the time now, but for some reasons I never picked up hunting. I have no issue with it though, and I've eaten plenty of venison over the years. Again, love your stuff, nice to learn we grew
killing the animal isnt where the "fun" comes from, it can be from the actual tracking down of the animal to the experience of going outside and just feeling the connection with nature. I think people like to pretend humans are far from the "apes" we used to be but the truth is we're still very much animals ourselves. There's some genuine enjoyment from reconnecting with our primal instincts as weird as it sounds
exactly, i consider enjoying hunting similar to enjoying cooking and eating with others and enjoying making a fire, just something we're biologically predispositioned toward enjoying.
When you have a million ways to entertain yourself and you pick killing something for fun I find that very questionable
@@mdbw3411 Did you skip the whole "eating the kill" part of hunting? Hunting, by default, isn't killing "for fun." You can enjoy what you're doing without doing it for fun
@@MidnightsCorner >Hunting, by default, isn't killing "for fun."
Eh, I'd point you to plenty of trophy hunters who do just that.
I hear this from people who hunt a lot, but then they tell me about how they have a shitty little fort 40 miles in the woods where they sit for 15 hours a day until a deer happens by and then they kill it.
Most of the "tracking" seems to be just finding the random spot they choose to sit and wait to instantly kill a deer.
Its not like youre hiding in the mud waiting to hit it with a spear either
Thinking of hunting as just recreational sport is an extreme disservice to the people who hunt to provide. Many hunters don't hunt because they enjoy it but because they need to. Coming from a family that couldn't really afford meat, besides off cuts. Having a hunter in the family made it so we could eat better and healthier protein.
THAT, unfortunately, is a terrible and easily dispelled tenet (and I’m a huge hunter). The reality is, hunting as value food is quickly dispelled by the reality of the expenses behind the hobby. You’d need to be a borderline poacher to have hunting hit cost/benefit. There’s incalculable value, but it’s not monetary.
Maybe people who live in certain areas, but I live in an urban area and it's just a recreational thing done by bored urban/suburban drunks. They wanna go kill stuff.
@@MilwaukeeWoman clearly don’t understand.
@@irvingdog01 How? Let’s do some math. U.S. avg. beef price is $4.357 per pound (and ground meat is the cheapest). Avg. weight of a Deer is 124lbs which yields roughly 58lbs of meat. So, the avg. deer is worth about $252. In my state a hunting licenses costs $25 plus $6 for a bow stamp. You can get a decent bow for around $200 and a dozen arrows cost you $50. You could also find a hunter rifle/bow cheaper on the secondhand market. There is public land you can hunt on for free and dark colored clothing can work in a pinch for camo (and if you are a hunter, you know people who don’t even bother changing from their work clothing). So, the cost of hunting is about $281, and a single deer is worth $252, so after you harvest two deer you have more than broke even. Now if you are hunting for “fun” and want the “experience” then you may be paying more but none of that is truly necessary.
@@irvingdog01 A lot of that depends on where you live. For some people hunting deer is walking out their back door and shooting a deer with the gun that's been in the family for generations. For someone like me, who doesn't own land and lives in the suburbs, who puts his name in the lottery to get a tag, takes two weeks vacation and drives 2000 kilometers (from the north shore of Lake Ontario to the Ontario Manitoba Border) to go moose hunting, yes it costs more money than it's worth in terms of sustenance. The guy who rents land off my brother to grow hay for his cattle can shoot deer from his back porch and it costs his 15 bucks for the license and the price of a bullet.
Totally align with this view and way of looking at the ethics of such practices. I too did not grow up hunting, though my family did harvest fish for food(also grew up at the edge of the burbs and rural areas). We had friends that hunted and both our families enjoyed the others harvest during peak seasons(venison is tasty! So is trout and crappie). -Back to your point on "getting closer" to where your food comes from... I believe another added benefit to harvesting ethically, is that quarry is certainly a litmus test to health of the over all environment. The added benefit is that it brings folks, who normally do not jive with "tree hugerish" vibes, to THIS sort discussion. -(I would love to eat a responsibly harvested native trout from a stream upstream from a coal power plant rather than the stocked fish down stream of said plant.)It also really shows who who wants to be in the Rover crowd, and who truly cares for the environment. I would love to see a video(and your thoughts and research. Thank you by the way!) cooking on coming some good old fashioned sun fish/pan fish. Maybe traditional southern/US style and SE Asia or South/central America? Love your inclusion of subject experts! Bravo!
As a previous Pennsylvanian, and current tennessee resident who grew up hunting and cooking, I am very impressed how you handled this topic. I have venison in my freezer, and and am grateful for it. The demystification of both the morality and masculinity is the conversation most folks need to hear. It is very refreshing to hear decent, honest, factual dialog in this topic. Well done, sir.
Hunting is like fishing. There is a lot of sitting, doing nothing, getting nothing. Otherwise they wouldn't call it hunting. It would be harvesting or grocery shopping.
Or "killing". I think that works better for the joke.
Uh, it was called harvesting multiple times in this video.
@@GamesFromSpace Harvesting is the word used for actually taking the meat from a kill.
If you go fishing and spend most of your time sitting around and "doing nothing" you shouldn't be surprised when you catch nothing. Likewise, if your are one of the hunters who never sees a deer let alone gets a shot, that is on you. There is truth to the old saying that 10% of the fisherman catch 90% of the fish.
In my humble opinion hunting is okay, specifically when It helps with controlling the population of an animal or if it helps saving an ecosystem from invasive species. Hunting for trophies without permit is stupid and unethical.
Really nice cover of the topic, Adam!
Pretty much agree with you. Better a human do it with maths and stuff than introduce predators, that has never ended well.
Youd be poaching then, which is wrong. Trophy hunting though often brings money in for conservation to include the trophy species
Isn't hunting without a permit just poaching?
@@BoneistJ exactly, that's why i am saying it is stupid.
Pretty sure "poaching is stupid and unethical" isn't exactly controversial
I've never been hunting, but I know people who hurt quail, turkey, deer, and elk. They don't have a financial need to hunt to survive, but nearly everyone I know that is involved in hunting lives in such rural locations that the closest grocery store is a 2-3 hour drive away. It wasn't very long ago that without hunting, people just wouldn't be able to survive in rural America.
By living in the remote wilderness areas of the country, most have a great respect and appreciation for conserving the land and the wildlife that we share the world with. They enjoy the satisfaction of a successful hunting season, but are also thrilled at the opportunity to spend a few days in the back country for each of the designated seasons, even if they don't have the opportunity for the "perfect" shot.
I do believe that as more of the human population migrates to city life, more people are forgetting that the vast majority of land is still rural, and there are a lot of people that still live the lifestyle that comes with living on the land.
So much of the necessities we take for granted in the cities wouldn't be available if not for the many people who remain in rural areas to work the land. The food that they grow and harvest, the livestock they raise and process, and the lumber they produce all make our city life possible.
There are still a lot of people who raise livestock and work the land as a way of life, and we benefit from their labor. I really don't think it is fair to wear and eat the products produced by people working the land on our behalf and then judge them for enjoying the opportunity to get a chance to hunt a wild animal.
They won't judge you for wasting so much of the food and other materials they work so hard to supply to the cities.
Great point
My parents lived off the land and hunting was another way to put meat on the table - just like fishing !
So glad I was raised by great parents 🤗
I think it's important, when questioning the "joy" that people derive from hunting, to note that there are two different kinds of "joy" someone could derive from the act.
One is a sadistic joy that comes from the suffering of other creatures. This is a strictly human trait, and it is considered evil by the majority of humanity. This is the kind of joy that serial killers, torturers, and other such criminals derive from their crimes, and the kind of joy that future serial killers may derive from torturing the neighborhood cats in their parents' back yard shed.
The other is an innocent, primal joy that comes from the rush of the hunt, the pride of the capture, and the optimism that comes with acquiring a large amount of high quality sustenance. This is the kind of joy displayed by animals when they celebrate a kill, and there's nothing evil about it as long as you are hunting responsibly and with the intention of using every bit of the animal you can reasonably harvest and utilize. Your average hunter, when they finally shoot and capture a deer, will feel a tinge of sadness for and reverence of the loss of life, followed by this kind of joy.
Comparing the two is foolish and naive.
You've never seen dogs, fox, cats, etc kill for fun? You think a fox that gets into a hen house, kills every hen and eats one or two did it for sustenance?
Agreed on the decision to focus on "non-sadistic joy." But plenty of animals are cruel hunters, torment their prey, prolong death, and kill for sport. It has nothing to do with being human.
Idk man there are orcas that would make Bundy cringe but ye I get ur point
Prior to the neolithic which was not so long ago, we and our ancestors preceding homo sapiens, were hunters for hundred of thousands if not millions of years.
We feel good from hunting, because those that didn't, died.
That does not make the "joy" we feel upon successfull hunt "innocent".
If you feel the need to justify yourself with "innocent killing", and stress out the simultaneous "sadness" maybe you do realize it is not that morally unquestionably right, as you make it out to be.
The sport aspect and the sustenance aspect of killing wild animals, are two side of the same coin
I'm not trying to vilify hunting either. A world where humans stayed hunters/gatherers would have been better for pretty much every lifeform.
I wouldn't say sadism is purely human as it's impossible to tell how animals truly feel. Dolphins brutalize and savagely beat baby porpoises for seemingly zero reason. Seals sometimes rape penguins before eating them. Otters kill other animals even if they don't eat them, and also engage in necrophilia. What do these animals stand to gain from these pointless and horrific acts if not some kind of enjoyment?
I grew up in the woods in NC and I really enjoyed just being in the woods and I often passed up shooting a deer because I quickly learned about the saying, The fun ends when you pull the trigger. It is hard work to drag out the deer, gutting it, cutting up, etc. And I don't even like deer meat. I found fishing to be much more relaxing and easier and tastier.
That's probably the biggest reason that I've found not to take up hunting. I could probably stomach the actual shooting and hauling it back to the truck, but the cutting and skinning would probably get the better of me.
I also don't want to pay for someone else to process the deer. $50 to $200 is too rich for my blood.
I feel similarly. I haven't actually shot a deer in years now, but I still go out and sit in the tree stand just to be in the middle of nature with no obligations, watching deer come and go.
Fish have a right to live as well.
@@williamcoolidge9884 cool, they're going to die anyways so why shouldn't I make some fish sticks in the meantime?
Another excellent video. I don't think you missed a point that I would have made if I tried to make a video on the same subject.
Great video.