FINALLY someone has put ballistic gel behind some soft armor! I have no idea if you're the first person to set them up in that order with a similar test. but Nick, my friend; I enjoy your content because it DOES have that relatable x-factor😊
Throw the biggest weight at the fastest speed at the most sensitive part of the softest body part; Humans are all soft parts in case you wondered; big calibre equals smaller human if you hit anything 3 inches in from outline... only shots fired limit remains... remainder???
Yeah I got a Ruger57 a few years ago to give me a feel for the 5.7x28 to see if I wanted to spend the additional money on a good deal on a PS90 and after shooting my 57 I was impressed and went and got the PS90, lol just in time cause the guy ringing it up saw on the computer it was due to get it's price raised that weekend from the $1575 I got it for up to $1799!
I personally, have NEVER seen 3a armor that thin. Hell, that's not much thicker than the trauma pads I got with my hard plates. I think that company needs to re-evaluate their armor
I am pretty sure that isn't 3A armor.. Or maybe he got it from wish.. First i thought he was joking with that bs armor but the video still goes on... I have thicker pillowcases than that thing.. lol
Seeing what the 10mm did just cements why I became a hard core 10mm fan about 4 years ago (once I got over the expense) and have never looked back. The 10mm seems like the best all around caliber for many different things. It's obviously great out of a handgun but it is excellent out of a PCC as well. Great job by a lot of these rounds but some of them are not common and can be expensive.
@@sebastiantrevino9121 I am not a huge Hi-Point guy but I do have a Hi-Point 10mm carbine and it is fantastic. It's accurate, inexpensive and (for me) it looks great. I was hesitant when thinking about the Hi-Point carbine but man it is a great firearm and I would definitely buy another one. Not too sure about their pistols yet but they are doing a great service for people that can't afford higher priced firearms and they are an all American company. You're right, it is a lot of fun to shoot.
.45's not going to go thru too much armor but what's the odds your attacker is going to be wearing a vest? Highly unlikely. A guy at my local gun store used a 165 +P .45ACP in a defense situation & he said there wasn't much of the bad guy's noggin left : )
I carry the civil defense 50 grain 9mm hallow points and I love them! I got put on after the instructor for my concealed carry class informed me that with the velocity it can penetrate 3A body armor. Seeing how the 357 and 40 S&W did in this test I don’t plan on switching my carry ammo anytime soon
22 TCM is a great round. I have a Rock Island double stack 1911 in 22 TCM that came with a 9mm barrel and 9mm spring. Outstanding 1911. That body armor brand didn't do to well.
I started with the 5.7x28 and now own two Fiveseven pistols and have several thousand rounds of personally loaded ammo for them. I discovered the 22TCM and TCM9R and now have SIX handguns chambered in 22TCM9R and one in 22TCM! I also have thousands of rounds of both factory and personally loaded ammo, much of it consisting of 5.56x24 which is a cartridge I invented, derived from the TCM case, but with the neck pushed back and shorted so it could properly grip standard .224 rifle bullets yet fit and feed through a TCM9R action! While the TCM9R factory load is just one bullet - a long shank, bubble-nose JHP that barely protrudes from the case, the 5.56x24 is loaded with the Speer 40gr. Spire Point - a thick-jacketed .224" bullet designed for rifle speeds that will easily go through a TL3A vest. The 5.56x24 can also be loaded with the Speer 46gr. JFP, and the 35 gr. Vmax, though my testing has found bullets lighter than 40 grains provide less reliable cycling of the action, and the TCM, TCM9R, and 5.56x24 all need to be pretty much max loaded to reliably cycle the full-size actions while the 5.7 had a special locking system designed for it because it could never work in the classic tilting barrel lock system of the bulk and mass of the 1911 and Glock. TCM and 9R, and 5.56 easily reach 2,000fps from a 5" barrel and Kevlar is no challenge at all. In fact, 10 gauge steel plate is no challenge at all, while the 9mm will only make a bulge! Armscor makes a 22TCM9R barrel for the MAPP1 FS and MS that will also fit the steel framed CZ75B .40 - yes FORTY caliber with minimal fitting and in .22TCM9R, stock 17 round mags fitted with +2 bases gives a total capacity of 20 rounds - all for less than a single Fiveseven and the 22TCM/9R has proven to be highly reliable in terms of feed - I've never had one jam. Armscor also sells barrels for the G19 and G17 as well as a complete G17 top end - I own two of those, plus a G19 conversion, plus a near endless supply of mags from 15 rounds to 30! I also have both the MAPP1 FS and a MS both take the blue follower 17 round 9mm mag, and then I have the CZ75B 40 conversion! I have a Rock Island 38Super fitted with a ramped TCM barrel that is my lone 22TCM - well, except for my 22TCM bolt rifle! I've got a short video of blowing apart of small section of poured concrete (not cinder block) using 5.56x24 from about 30 yards out using the CZ75. While I have loaded 40 grain bullets in the 5.7x28 up to 2,060fps that is definitely a HOT load - not for the chamber, but for the locking system and action. The original design was a 31 or 32 grain bullet around 2,200 fps which translates to limiting a 40 grain bullet to around 1,740 fps which is why current, non-hotloaded factory 40gr. ammo clocks around 1,700fps give or take. The Fiveseven can hold up to shooting 40gr at 1,850 fps which is easily achieved, but I stopped trying to push it when I got into the TCM/9R because the TCM uses a massive case derived from the 5.56x45 with super thick "rifle" web area! I have in fact loaded the TCM9R literally with so much powder the bullet had to compress the powder charge...around 11 grains is all you can get in the case of any powder - Enforcer, H110, and Lil-gun, and other powders will work - Blue Dot, 800X. My "often carry" pistol is a P80-G19 chambered in .22TCM9R with 15+2 on tap either factory ammo or my proprietary 5.56x24 "green tip" personal loads.
To be fair - it is often easier to find a Takerov style gun than ammo to shoot. I'm not an expert - but I also don't think some of the new ammo made in that caliber is quite as powerful as the older, European made stuff either.
@@gregadkins9752 your probably correct. However any standard 7.62x25 will zip through anything but ceramic level 3A (which would stop all the others save the extreme penetrators).
Great video... I think the .357 SIG would have done more damage to a human torso than the other handgun calibers.. the others just blew through with a hole..
Thanks for this video. I bought my dad some liberty 9mm ammo for fathers day. And doing research i found out that its underrated. Its actually going almost 2200 fps.
yeah, that people that say, "skin = 4" of gel". Someone needs to demonstrate & prove that. Until then, a gaping hole that's 3" wide & 4-5" deep ought to suffice and then send the 28 gr (9mm) base another 8" or so? Sure wish some LE would implement them and find out if we stop seeing perps continue to advance after receiving 6 rds of JHP like they always seem to do.
How many layers of Kevlar is that 3a armor, I tested some liberty 40 & Underwood 10mm & it didn't go through my 3a , mine had 30 layers also 5.7 green tip failed it made it to the 27th layer
I wear body armor for a living. There's a reason why the armor has a front and a rear. It tells you to wear one side facing the body and the other side facing outwards. The tests might have to be redone.
I have the 9.5 super Redhawks 454. At 30 ft w max load 265 grn HP, it almost blows through 1/4 diamond steel, A 240 Hardcast, mx load 30 ft blows through like butter. Suggestion on firing style, loose grip right hand, let pistol slip just a bit, very firm grip with left hand, keep arm bent, shock asb.. I have well over 10k rounds through my 454. Took awhile how to really hold it so it does not hurt. Good review, cheers.
Defend, DUDE! You are WAY past hammer spring replacement time. My 44 Redhawk had less than 5K on it & it failed the night a moose charged us. Granted, it was -35 below but I had to cycle the cylinder 6 times to make all the rounds go off. My gunsmith told me later I was lucky it fired at all. Only 9 lbs of hammer strike. 22 lbs is normal.
I’m nearly certain that is just a trauma plate for soft armor that is not the whole thing I think you might get different results with a full armor setup. I’ve been wearing a level 3a soft armor vest for 15 years daily had several all of them had a plate that slips in front of the main ballistic vest in the same carrier in the center of your chest. Never have I seen anything rated level 3A that thin . My police department is paying over 1000 per vest and they are 3-4 times thicker than that. Also it might say level 3-a on that because it comes together with a vest and is part of a 3-a vest setup. It is a bit confusing though.
Holy jazz! This 45-70 effect immediately reminded me about the caricaturesque shootout scene in Wind River, where those bullets sent bad guys flying :D
That .40S&W Civil Defense "disk" that you retrieved, was just that - it was the base of the bullet, i.e. the disk. The hollow point portion shattered & was lost in the IIIA body armor, only the disk made it thru, it was not mushroomed, that's how those rounds are meant to perform. The hollow point shatters, & the disk proceeds to penetrate
I'd have to disagree a bit there. Maybe some broke off on the armor, but if you watch again you can see the bullet had more mass than just the base. My guess is the hollow point clogged with material and didn't expand and the petals didn't have a chance to break off. 🤔
@@proverbialmind_spread9421 ...You might be right, I wasn't looking super close, if that is indeed the case, then I've never seen Civil Defense do that before.
@@patriotwarrior_556 There is no core to the bullet, it's an empty space. The disk is literally the rear end of the bullet, which continues to travel after the front of the bullet shatters off into pieces upon initial impact.
My stars my friend. This is so eye opening and very entertaining. I could keep from laughing with surprise at the performance of these rounds. The 357 Sig was perhaps the most surprising along with the 40. This makes me less attracted to level 3 armour. Thank you.
This isn't level 3, it's level 3A. Level 3 always has a hard insert and can defeat some rifle rounds. Personally I've always found level 3A armor to be 'not good enough'.
Cap, Hard bear skulls is a myth. No tougher than a humans. Even a 22L.R. can easily punch through. Bears skull is actually very small compared to head size & shots through the center of the head completely miss the skull. Shoot em in the magic triangle & they're going down no matter what gun or caliber you use. Across the eyes down to the nose is where they're brain is at & it's instant lethal.
1 point... the first round (.357 sig) may have had little to no resistance because almost all soft armor has a "strike side" meaning it is directional... if it is reversed... it does very little. I would shoot the .357 again, striking the proper side. (It should still defeat it, but I am interested to see the difference. The hand cannon is a hunting hand gun! Awesome review
now try underwood 65gr 357sig xtreme defender (and a bare gel test, of course)... supposed to be doing 2300fps from a 4.5" barrel with a solid copper fluted projectile.
@@em-rx1wy i saw a chrono test from a glock 22 w/31 conversion barrel and it was pushing almost 2300. all in the high 2200 range. single sample size of one box. i want someone to load those projectiles into a 350 legend case... should be pushing 3600fps or more
Idk if anyone else picked up, but at 9:43, you can see what seems to be a bright flash between the ballistics gel block and the cinderblock. Wish the high speed cam was in its previous positions to have seen this shot upclose!
That seems to be a common thing when a round hits the ballistics gel fast enough. Kentucky Ballistics did a video just recently where he shot a 4-bore rifle through like 8 ballistics gel blocks and you got some wicked explosions in the gel from it.
@@MylesZ06 a good channel to follow is called "ballistic high speed", they have a million fps camera and you can see some wicked cool stuff at those super fast frame rates. They have shots of bullets hitting armor plate and they make mini explosions on impact, it's insane.
I just bought the Underwood 240 gr penetrator for my .460 for Grizz medicine. After seeing what it did it the 10mm, i don't think I'll need to go with Buffalo Bore hard cast.
The .357 sig result is more indicative of Liberty Civil Defense rather than the cartridge. Not that the .357 sig isn't great, but I've seen plenty of videos of Liberty Civil Defense in 9mm blowing right through 3A as well, with similar results. Good video.
Because I wear body armor here in the Portland OR. metro area (for obvious reasons), the results of a test like this interest me very much. But it does make me wonder if all *'3-a' soft armor* is the same. I do know prices vary WIDELY, so maybe something like the newer 'Safariland Hardwire' line of armor panels ($1,700) would preform better than this 'Premier' panel ($200 average). _(The Premier 'Phoenix' line you use is discontinued, so I can't compare 'apples to apples' when it comes to price)_
The 10mm Extreme Defender is not designed to expand, so little deformation is expected. This is a great test and makes one thing pretty clear, spend the extra money for 4A armor.
Very surprised at the results. I would not have believed that the 40S and W would penetrate. But it makes sense only being a 60 grain as it's not as heavy and moving a lot faster than a 150 or 180 grain
Will def be buying some liberty civil defense rounds for my .357 sig , Glock 32 that I carry as a backup . Our primary we carry HST +P 9mm as it is issued Ammo . But our back up we can use what ammo we want . Thanks for the cool video and great information !
I believe you need to re-do this entire test. For the .357 Sig you had the body armor backwards. There is a very good reason the body armor panels clearly state which side OUT and which TOWARDS body. Often times the panels utilize different size weave from in to out/front to back as they are engineered to first slow and then stop the projectiles. Just my $.02 Cents. 7:26 the label clearly states which side next to body. IMHO, all shots/tests should be from the direction the armor was designed to function.
@@kodywootton7472 It was Liberty Ammo's Civil Defense load. ALL of them (excepting maybe the .380) punch through soft body armor. It's what they do. It's all that they do.
The 5.7 green tips do not have a steel core. It’s aluminum. It also technically isn’t designed to be AP. The ss-190 black tip are the armor penetrating rounds.
I'm pretty sure it was a unique to liberty defense, they intentionally make very light bullets that zip very fast. Energy is logarithmic to speed while only weight of the head is direct. I've seen these rounds get stopped by heavier rounds, including the 5.7. Problem is more speed takes more precise rifling and can tumble much easier. Youll get different results with hornady, federal, winchester, and the cheap grabs.
When it comes to 10mm you are absolutely correct. My buddy and I both have springfield elite xdm 10mm pistols, he bought some federal 10mm fmj and was saying he was underwhelmed cause he thought 10mm was supposed to be powerful, so I gave him some of my underwood and we did a test. First 2 shots in the mag were his federal 10mm, then the next two shots were my magtech 10mm fmj, then the last 2 shots were underwood xtreme penetrator 115 grain @1700 fps. You could see and hear the massive difference in power going from weak, to decent, to huge recoil and pressure blast on the last two shots. Sad thing is he paid almost as much for the federal 10mm fmj as it would have cost to get good stuff.
Ive heard of .357 being good against soft armor. Now I know for sure. Very impressive. Would be interesting to know how much of an effect kevlar thickness has as well.
Pretty much all the tests that I've seen done on 3a kevlar armor, it's stopped 357 mag and 357 sig. As thin as that plate was, I am really, really wondering if somebody at the factory put the wrong label on a lvl 2 plate.
@@Resident-cb3yz I like the self defense stuff because it expand so much, in general. I mean, if you shoot someone who is wearing one, at least you knock the air out of them and aim in worst case scenario. You can aim for other parts of the intruder. I think that because making a "pencil hole" as he called it, people get holes in them like that and continue what ever they were doing like nothing happened. Makes sense?
@@KapteinFruit 🤣 That's a pretty good way of putting it! Yeah, let's go with that. That's a "security blanket" rated plate. 🤣🤣 I've always been a huge proponent of quick, accurate, follow up shots. But... like you're saying, there's a difference tween using a scalpel and a hammer. When it comes to beating somebody with a soft plate... I'd rather have the hammer. Soft plate does nothing to mitigate impact trauma. So something that hits really hard, and can crack/break bones when it doesn't penetrate, would be more of an asset in that particular fight.
357 sig underwood 68 grain XD 2300 fps from my g22 with alpha wolf 5 inch threaded barrel now that’s the loudest pistol I have ever heard even louder than my 44 mag
At 9:44 when the 5-7 goes thru the body armor and hits the gel, you can see the flash from the wound channel expanding and compressing the air inside the cavity......"that's pretty neat"🌳
@@HutzjohnThe hydrostatic shock that would pass through the soft armor could easily stop your heart, or break your ribs and sternum causing internal bleeding. That would feel like a 20lb sledge flying into your chest at full force from Brian Shaw😅
That 22tcm was the low power version. The original made to fire from their 1911, were a bit longer and held more powder. My God what a muzzle blast they made!
Civil defense rounds are no joke and it always amused me when people are like "GiMmIcK RoUnDs". Like, my guy, they literally defeat armor that was intended to stop them and still explode in the target. If the rounds were engineered a bit better it's all I would carry.
The 10mm is the sidearm of choice for many here in Alaska. I've see it drop a giant charging male Grizzly dead in it's tracks with no problem. They have a lot of knock down power.
The Hornady 325 grain FTX says right on the box "not for use in revolvers". This is because the cylinder gap blast can cause incomplete ignition and cause squibs.
Amazing video! Thanks for showcasing some of the more 'obscure' products. Wilson Combats Lehigh Defense Extreme Defense is very similar (if not the same) to the solid core you shot; glad it performed well.
You do the best Balistics gel videos Imo. Practical applications is what we all like to see tested when it comes to firearms. And the 10mm being so popular this is a great video for people who use XtremeP rounds to understand that this ISNT self defense ammo, it is indeed Dangerous game protection ammo.
Thank you! I've been waiting for someone to test body armor on ballistics gel forever! When I first saw the video I was really hoping you'd do 10mm and not one of those weak ".40s&w in disguise" loadings but a proper full house 10mm and you picked the perfect one. Do you remember which bullet weight the extreme penetrator was? They have a couple variants with different speeds so maybe that is why some videos it doesn't defeat it but no one ever says which bullet weight they used.
I would say that the 40s&w round displayed in this video worked very well on the Kevlar. 40s&w is definitely weaker than 10mm, but still has its effectiveness. - Jason/Freedom Fighter Until Death/Vermont, FRA (‘FRA’, meaning “The Failed Republic Of America”)
I carry that Liberty Civil Defense for my tactical load, 9mm and 10mm. I KNEW that round would penetrate without a problem ... EXCELLENT PERFORMANCE AND WORTH EVERY PENNY FOR TACTICAL AMMO!
I’d be curious to see the results of a few more calibers for each round. Do other extreme penetrators work, for example? Also if there are any .45 acp rounds that can make it through? I know .45 tends to be rather slow and fat which isn’t great for that sort of thing but I’m still curious if there’s a round that can manage it.
I remember looking at ballistic tests for 3A way back in the 90s as a student in high school shortly after Columbine. I came to the conclusion that it was slightly more effective than a leather jacket in most likely scenarios.
Most impressed with the 357 Sig, the reast I suspected to perform the way they did (especially the .45/70). Even tho it was a hollow point, it dumped a LOT of energy and maintained its mass pretty well. The velocity was incredible (obviously with such a light round).
Surprised to see the 22TCM being used. I own a RI 1911 with a 9mm barrel, recoil spring and extractor and a 22TCM barrel, recoil spring and extractor. The msg’s hold a lot of ammo. You are right about the sound it makes and the fire ball coming out of the muzzle. Not once did I hear you say I am going to run rather than shoot. Being 74 years old and I know a old fart with 20+years in the Marine Corps we never ran with are weapons unless needed but we shot them a lot. Running rather than shooting must be the dumbing down of shooting to avoid hurting the anti gunners or just a word a shooter used to sound cool and gathered legs. Hahahahaha! Any way good video. 😊
Even the smallest one goes through the vest, but regular 9mm won't. And the bigger boys were hollow points and what not, but it was really interesting comparison.
Fascinating results. Unexpected in some cases. I've taken to using Liberty Civil Defense myself lately in .38 Special, 9mm and .357 Magnum. Though I consider them special purpose for particular handguns. .38s for lightweight aluminum frame snubs, 9mm for a Bond Stinger, and the .357 for snubs as well for the initial cylinder load. But I keep conventional types of ammunition for the revolver reloads. It's velocity and bullet hardness that defeats armor, so as long as you've got either one or both it's probably going to do it.
Good stuff as always. What about 9mm Hornady Critical Duty or Defense? Duty was designed for barrier penetration, but will it defeat body armor as well?
I have a .22tcm9r barrel conversion for my g19, but can't find the ammo here in Commiefornia. Just waiting for the unconstitutional "background check" to end so I can just have it shipped right to my door. I also have a .357Sig, LOVE it. At least I can find ammo for that one.
5.7... I handload m193 projectiles in the 5.7. they penetrate level 3A 4 out'a 5 times. Sans any signs yet of pressure, I could bump them slightly. U do run out of case powder space quick.
FINALLY someone has put ballistic gel behind some soft armor! I have no idea if you're the first person to set them up in that order with a similar test. but Nick, my friend; I enjoy your content because it DOES have that relatable x-factor😊
Beautiful
Kentucky ballistics has done it a ton
USE THE 500
The 5.7 will only defeat lvl 2. Not lvl 3A
Kentucky ballistics
Lesson for today is, do not trust your life with 3A body armor 😂
We're going back to the Middle ages again with body armor it's a one-ups Man game
Throw the biggest weight at the fastest speed at the most sensitive part of the softest body part;
Humans are all soft parts in case you wondered; big calibre equals smaller human if you hit anything 3 inches in from outline...
only shots fired limit remains... remainder???
these are extreme premium rounds. you wont see criminals carrying these
@@doldemenshubarti8696criminals are gonna carry whatever was in the gun when they stole it
45-70 the only government I can trust
Amen
Amen 🙏
5.7x28 & 10mm have been my favorites for years.
It's so cool seeing them become popular & have all these new platforms coming out.
7.92x33
@@Aaron-zu3xnno
Yeah I got a Ruger57 a few years ago to give me a feel for the 5.7x28 to see if I wanted to spend the additional money on a good deal on a PS90 and after shooting my 57 I was impressed and went and got the PS90, lol just in time cause the guy ringing it up saw on the computer it was due to get it's price raised that weekend from the $1575 I got it for up to $1799!
I agree, I have the og fn 5.7 pistol and the glock 20sf 10mm which brings me alot of joy as it should for self defense and rang usage
I love my PSA Rock.
That little spider hanging inside the cinderblock, is in for a rough day. "What...the....fvck....??!!"
SpiderMan SpiderMan… ☢️
lmao right?? 😀
All of them, with proper shot placement.
Hips and heads
Hips and heads
I always say, Hips and Lips. Makes it easier to remember.
Don't you mean brains and balls?😅😅😂😂😂😂
@@neonjoe6180now why would the cops shoot you in the groin?
@@Jblow-u2m Break the pelvic girdle and you go down and stay down. Most likely bleed out.
Pelvic girdle shots how people deal with armored attackers for years with hollow points
I personally, have NEVER seen 3a armor that thin. Hell, that's not much thicker than the trauma pads I got with my hard plates. I think that company needs to re-evaluate their armor
I am pretty sure that isn't 3A armor.. Or maybe he got it from wish.. First i thought he was joking with that bs armor but the video still goes on... I have thicker pillowcases than that thing.. lol
That's exactly what I thought too, for something rated to stop Magnum 44s.
ok calm down@@ThamMalaysia
@@mcsaatana1614
Oops. System posted multiple times. Deleted.
@@ThamMalaysia no problem xD
Seeing what the 10mm did just cements why I became a hard core 10mm fan about 4 years ago (once I got over the expense) and have never looked back. The 10mm seems like the best all around caliber for many different things. It's obviously great out of a handgun but it is excellent out of a PCC as well. Great job by a lot of these rounds but some of them are not common and can be expensive.
It's good for everything except urban defense because of the slow mag dump fire rare from high recoil
Yup. My hi point 10mm carbine is fun to shoot.
@@sebastiantrevino9121
I am not a huge Hi-Point guy but I do have a Hi-Point 10mm carbine and it is fantastic. It's accurate, inexpensive and (for me) it looks great. I was hesitant when thinking about the Hi-Point carbine but man it is a great firearm and I would definitely buy another one. Not too sure about their pistols yet but they are doing a great service for people that can't afford higher priced firearms and they are an all American company. You're right, it is a lot of fun to shoot.
Hell yeah. It was a good choice as my first firearm.
@@sebastiantrevino9121
Definitely a good choice. 👍
.357 sig is my second favorite caliber due to its huge muzzle velocity and flat trajectory. I do love my .45 acp though.
.45's not going to go thru too much armor but what's the odds your attacker is going to be wearing a vest? Highly unlikely. A guy at my local gun store used a 165 +P .45ACP in a defense situation & he said there wasn't much of the bad guy's noggin left : )
I carry the civil defense 50 grain 9mm hallow points and I love them! I got put on after the instructor for my concealed carry class informed me that with the velocity it can penetrate 3A body armor. Seeing how the 357 and 40 S&W did in this test I don’t plan on switching my carry ammo anytime soon
Very smart instructor!
Where did you get hallow points?
@@camcom76 if I remember correctly i ordered them online through Palmetto State Armory and my local shop had them too
same here but i alternate them with some +p+
Same please don't use them in ur home go with normal grain and range velocity. U don't want rounds going through 3 floors and 6 walls in ur home
22 TCM is a great round.
I have a Rock Island double stack 1911 in 22 TCM that came with a 9mm barrel and 9mm spring.
Outstanding 1911.
That body armor brand didn't do to well.
I started with the 5.7x28 and now own two Fiveseven pistols and have several thousand rounds of personally loaded ammo for them.
I discovered the 22TCM and TCM9R and now have SIX handguns chambered in 22TCM9R and one in 22TCM! I also have thousands of rounds of both factory and personally loaded ammo, much of it consisting of 5.56x24 which is a cartridge I invented, derived from the TCM case, but with the neck pushed back and shorted so it could properly grip standard .224 rifle bullets yet fit and feed through a TCM9R action! While the TCM9R factory load is just one bullet - a long shank, bubble-nose JHP that barely protrudes from the case, the 5.56x24 is loaded with the Speer 40gr. Spire Point - a thick-jacketed .224" bullet designed for rifle speeds that will easily go through a TL3A vest. The 5.56x24 can also be loaded with the Speer 46gr. JFP, and the 35 gr. Vmax, though my testing has found bullets lighter than 40 grains provide less reliable cycling of the action, and the TCM, TCM9R, and 5.56x24 all need to be pretty much max loaded to reliably cycle the full-size actions while the 5.7 had a special locking system designed for it because it could never work in the classic tilting barrel lock system of the bulk and mass of the 1911 and Glock. TCM and 9R, and 5.56 easily reach 2,000fps from a 5" barrel and Kevlar is no challenge at all. In fact, 10 gauge steel plate is no challenge at all, while the 9mm will only make a bulge!
Armscor makes a 22TCM9R barrel for the MAPP1 FS and MS that will also fit the steel framed CZ75B .40 - yes FORTY caliber with minimal fitting and in .22TCM9R, stock 17 round mags fitted with +2 bases gives a total capacity of 20 rounds - all for less than a single Fiveseven and the 22TCM/9R has proven to be highly reliable in terms of feed - I've never had one jam. Armscor also sells barrels for the G19 and G17 as well as a complete G17 top end - I own two of those, plus a G19 conversion, plus a near endless supply of mags from 15 rounds to 30! I also have both the MAPP1 FS and a MS both take the blue follower 17 round 9mm mag, and then I have the CZ75B 40 conversion! I have a Rock Island 38Super fitted with a ramped TCM barrel that is my lone 22TCM - well, except for my 22TCM bolt rifle!
I've got a short video of blowing apart of small section of poured concrete (not cinder block) using 5.56x24 from about 30 yards out using the CZ75.
While I have loaded 40 grain bullets in the 5.7x28 up to 2,060fps that is definitely a HOT load - not for the chamber, but for the locking system and action. The original design was a 31 or 32 grain bullet around 2,200 fps which translates to limiting a 40 grain bullet to around 1,740 fps which is why current, non-hotloaded factory 40gr. ammo clocks around 1,700fps give or take. The Fiveseven can hold up to shooting 40gr at 1,850 fps which is easily achieved, but I stopped trying to push it when I got into the TCM/9R because the TCM uses a massive case derived from the 5.56x45 with super thick "rifle" web area! I have in fact loaded the TCM9R literally with so much powder the bullet had to compress the powder charge...around 11 grains is all you can get in the case of any powder - Enforcer, H110, and Lil-gun, and other powders will work - Blue Dot, 800X.
My "often carry" pistol is a P80-G19 chambered in .22TCM9R with 15+2 on tap either factory ammo or my proprietary 5.56x24 "green tip" personal loads.
I have Glock 17 would like to convert to .22 TCM could you lead the way?@@crspartans117kilibreaux8
@@crspartans117kilibreaux8amazing
You forgot the 7.62x25 caliber.
Exactly , it is infamous for defeating body armour.
To be fair - it is often easier to find a Takerov style gun than ammo to shoot. I'm not an expert - but I also don't think some of the new ammo made in that caliber is quite as powerful as the older, European made stuff either.
And the 9x25 Dillon 😛
Wtf richard
@@gregadkins9752 your probably correct. However any standard 7.62x25 will zip through anything but ceramic level 3A (which would stop all the others save the extreme penetrators).
Great video... I think the .357 SIG would have done more damage to a human torso than the other handgun calibers.. the others just blew through with a hole..
Not the 10mm it shattered the freaking block 😂
Bro, 10mm 357 is sig daddy.
Thanks for this video. I bought my dad some liberty 9mm ammo for fathers day. And doing research i found out that its underrated. Its actually going almost 2200 fps.
A lot of people talk trash on Civil Defense ammo...I think this puts those folks to bed.
I personally have several calibers in the Civil Defense rounds. I am a believer.
yeah, that people that say, "skin = 4" of gel".
Someone needs to demonstrate & prove that. Until then, a gaping hole that's 3" wide & 4-5" deep ought to suffice and then send the 28 gr (9mm) base another 8" or so?
Sure wish some LE would implement them and find out if we stop seeing perps continue to advance after receiving 6 rds of JHP like they always seem to do.
👍
How many layers of Kevlar is that 3a armor, I tested some liberty 40 & Underwood 10mm & it didn't go through my 3a , mine had 30 layers also 5.7 green tip failed it made it to the 27th layer
10 mm is not messing about. Really impressed with .357sig
Look up Dancing Israelis. Their particular dancing style is known as Urban Moving Systems.
He used super penetrators for the 10mm, though. Would have had similar results with a super penetrator .357 sig.
PJ, been seeing where a lot of State Troopers are going with the 357 sig. Nasty lil round!
Sig is wicked
I wear body armor for a living. There's a reason why the armor has a front and a rear. It tells you to wear one side facing the body and the other side facing outwards. The tests might have to be redone.
You are right. 👍
Facts
They still go through don't worry lol
Appropriate credentials to make this point aren't, "I wear body armor," but "I can read".
I have the 9.5 super Redhawks 454.
At 30 ft w max load 265 grn HP, it almost blows through 1/4 diamond steel, A 240 Hardcast, mx load 30 ft blows through like butter.
Suggestion on firing style, loose grip right hand, let pistol slip just a bit, very firm grip with left hand, keep arm bent, shock asb..
I have well over 10k rounds through my 454.
Took awhile how to really hold it so it does not hurt.
Good review, cheers.
Defend, DUDE! You are WAY past hammer spring replacement time. My 44 Redhawk had less than 5K on it & it failed the night a moose charged us. Granted, it was -35 below but I had to cycle the cylinder 6 times to make all the rounds go off. My gunsmith told me later I was lucky it fired at all. Only 9 lbs of hammer strike. 22 lbs is normal.
The bullet separation from the Hornady round is typical of the results I've had with their bullets so far.
The 10mm and 45-70 was nasty. I've heard of 9mm +p underwood xtreme penetrator defeating IIIA armor...
I’m nearly certain that is just a trauma plate for soft armor that is not the whole thing I think you might get different results with a full armor setup. I’ve been wearing a level 3a soft armor vest for 15 years daily had several all of them had a plate that slips in front of the main ballistic vest in the same carrier in the center of your chest. Never have I seen anything rated level 3A that thin . My police department is paying over 1000 per vest and they are 3-4 times thicker than that. Also it might say level 3-a on that because it comes together with a vest and is part of a 3-a vest setup. It is a bit confusing though.
I would like to see this test done again with poly based 3a. Great job!
Holy jazz! This 45-70 effect immediately reminded me about the caricaturesque shootout scene in Wind River, where those bullets sent bad guys flying :D
That .40S&W Civil Defense "disk" that you retrieved, was just that - it was the base of the bullet, i.e. the disk. The hollow point portion shattered & was lost in the IIIA body armor, only the disk made it thru, it was not mushroomed, that's how those rounds are meant to perform. The hollow point shatters, & the disk proceeds to penetrate
I'd have to disagree a bit there. Maybe some broke off on the armor, but if you watch again you can see the bullet had more mass than just the base. My guess is the hollow point clogged with material and didn't expand and the petals didn't have a chance to break off. 🤔
@@proverbialmind_spread9421 ...You might be right, I wasn't looking super close, if that is indeed the case, then I've never seen Civil Defense do that before.
@ericbergfield6451 Wait so civil defense had a pentrator core??
@@patriotwarrior_556 There is no core to the bullet, it's an empty space. The disk is literally the rear end of the bullet, which continues to travel after the front of the bullet shatters off into pieces upon initial impact.
@ericbergfield6451 oh..is it lead or is the base steel?...Just curious..
Enjoyed seeing how the different rounds performed 👍🏼
6:00 poor spider waving the web inside the cinderblock 😢
Great great vid! Nice job. Love your channel; reminds me of OLD Demo Ranch when it used to be relatable.
Thanks 4 the cool vid!
My stars my friend. This is so eye opening and very entertaining. I could keep from laughing with surprise at the performance of these rounds. The 357 Sig was perhaps the most surprising along with the 40. This makes me less attracted to level 3 armour. Thank you.
This isn't level 3, it's level 3A. Level 3 always has a hard insert and can defeat some rifle rounds.
Personally I've always found level 3A armor to be 'not good enough'.
Interesting. I felt the result from the 357 SIG was obvious.
Great demonstration, definitely like those Underwood 10mm.
10mm is ultimately automatic power
What grain penetrator since there are a few?
Underwood highly inconsistent. Round to round from same box. I love it for range ammo. If you use it for other means, thats on you!
Damn I really underestimated my 10mm xtreme penetrators I keep in my FN for hikes. Here I was doubting if it would hold its path against bear skull.
Cap, Hard bear skulls is a myth. No tougher than a humans. Even a 22L.R. can easily punch through. Bears skull is actually very small compared to head size & shots through the center of the head completely miss the skull. Shoot em in the magic triangle & they're going down no matter what gun or caliber you use. Across the eyes down to the nose is where they're brain is at & it's instant lethal.
Nice content, interesting results, thanks! :) As someone already wrote, you forgot the 7,62x25. :(
1 point... the first round (.357 sig) may have had little to no resistance because almost all soft armor has a "strike side" meaning it is directional... if it is reversed... it does very little. I would shoot the .357 again, striking the proper side. (It should still defeat it, but I am interested to see the difference.
The hand cannon is a hunting hand gun! Awesome review
Fantastic video. That 45-70 is almost cartoonish. Loved it.
now try underwood 65gr 357sig xtreme defender (and a bare gel test, of course)... supposed to be doing 2300fps from a 4.5" barrel with a solid copper fluted projectile.
My primary defense load… but that velocity is from a 6” barrel. The 2100 on the box is from a 4” barrel.
@@em-rx1wy i saw a chrono test from a glock 22 w/31 conversion barrel and it was pushing almost 2300. all in the high 2200 range. single sample size of one box.
i want someone to load those projectiles into a 350 legend case... should be pushing 3600fps or more
Idk if anyone else picked up, but at 9:43, you can see what seems to be a bright flash between the ballistics gel block and the cinderblock. Wish the high speed cam was in its previous positions to have seen this shot upclose!
That seems to be a common thing when a round hits the ballistics gel fast enough. Kentucky Ballistics did a video just recently where he shot a 4-bore rifle through like 8 ballistics gel blocks and you got some wicked explosions in the gel from it.
@@BullsMahunny That's so fascinating. I would love to see some high speed shots of that
@@MylesZ06 a good channel to follow is called "ballistic high speed", they have a million fps camera and you can see some wicked cool stuff at those super fast frame rates. They have shots of bullets hitting armor plate and they make mini explosions on impact, it's insane.
I just bought the Underwood 240 gr penetrator for my .460 for Grizz medicine. After seeing what it did it the 10mm, i don't think I'll need to go with Buffalo Bore hard cast.
What have we learned? Do not trust soft armor.
The north Hollywood bank robbers would disagree
I swapped from corbon to civil defense 9mm. I love it!!!
I’m a big 10mm fan but the 22 TCM really has my attention now.
Been using 5.7x28 since the first p90. Awesome to see it becoming popular.
Now make 30 super popular!
I would love to see this exact test done again with three A+ rated armor not just 3A rated armor
Most of these would be stopped. The 10mm stuff is all that might not go through, but not certain.
@@AtlasArmsResearchthis made no sense?
@@InGlockWeTrust1 What didn't make sense?
The .357 sig result is more indicative of Liberty Civil Defense rather than the cartridge. Not that the .357 sig isn't great, but I've seen plenty of videos of Liberty Civil Defense in 9mm blowing right through 3A as well, with similar results.
Good video.
When I saw what the 10mm Super Penetrator did, my first thought was "Must have".
The 45-70 was brutal! Very interesting video. Thanks.
Because I wear body armor here in the Portland OR. metro area (for obvious reasons), the results of a test like this interest me very much. But it does make me wonder if all *'3-a' soft armor* is the same.
I do know prices vary WIDELY, so maybe something like the newer 'Safariland Hardwire' line of armor panels ($1,700) would preform better than this 'Premier' panel ($200 average).
_(The Premier 'Phoenix' line you use is discontinued, so I can't compare 'apples to apples' when it comes to price)_
I heard a rumor that putting some body armor on your deltoid muscles can help prevent myocarditis
The 10mm Extreme Defender is not designed to expand, so little deformation is expected. This is a great test and makes one thing pretty clear, spend the extra money for 4A armor.
The cone of cavitation of the 357 is devastating.
Very surprised at the results. I would not have believed that the 40S and W would penetrate. But it makes sense only being a 60 grain as it's not as heavy and moving a lot faster than a 150 or 180 grain
Will def be buying some liberty civil defense rounds for my .357 sig , Glock 32 that I carry as a backup . Our primary we carry HST +P 9mm as it is issued Ammo . But our back up we can use what ammo we want . Thanks for the cool video and great information !
I believe you need to re-do this entire test.
For the .357 Sig you had the body armor backwards. There is a very good reason the body armor panels clearly state which side OUT and which TOWARDS body.
Often times the panels utilize different size weave from in to out/front to back as they are engineered to first slow and then stop the projectiles.
Just my $.02 Cents. 7:26 the label clearly states which side next to body. IMHO, all shots/tests should be from the direction the armor was designed to function.
Dude im confused how 357 sig goes thru level 3a anyways
@@kodywootton7472 Agreed
@@kodywootton7472 It was Liberty Ammo's Civil Defense load. ALL of them (excepting maybe the .380) punch through soft body armor. It's what they do. It's all that they do.
💯 Agree...
Hey good seeing you in this channel I always see you on Troglys videos
Great stuff! How about trying the Underwood 9mm Extreme defense and penetrator? Thanks!
Great testing. There is another 9 mm that pierce almost any 3A body armor, it's Fort Scott TUI 80gr 9mm.
The 5.7 green tips do not have a steel core.
It’s aluminum.
It also technically isn’t designed to be AP.
The ss-190 black tip are the armor penetrating rounds.
I'm pretty sure it was a unique to liberty defense, they intentionally make very light bullets that zip very fast. Energy is logarithmic to speed while only weight of the head is direct. I've seen these rounds get stopped by heavier rounds, including the 5.7. Problem is more speed takes more precise rifling and can tumble much easier.
Youll get different results with hornady, federal, winchester, and the cheap grabs.
You are the most educational channel about guns in ny opinion. Thanks for all you have done
Look up Dancing Israelis. Their particular dancing style is known as Urban Moving Systems.
Most educational imo is definitely Ron Spomer
If you ain't running Underwood, do you really have bullets in your pistol. 😊
When it comes to 10mm you are absolutely correct. My buddy and I both have springfield elite xdm 10mm pistols, he bought some federal 10mm fmj and was saying he was underwhelmed cause he thought 10mm was supposed to be powerful, so I gave him some of my underwood and we did a test. First 2 shots in the mag were his federal 10mm, then the next two shots were my magtech 10mm fmj, then the last 2 shots were underwood xtreme penetrator 115 grain @1700 fps. You could see and hear the massive difference in power going from weak, to decent, to huge recoil and pressure blast on the last two shots. Sad thing is he paid almost as much for the federal 10mm fmj as it would have cost to get good stuff.
BS
@neonjoe6180 You ju st can't afford them. It's OK work harder boi.
Thanks !!
Ive heard of .357 being good against soft armor. Now I know for sure. Very impressive. Would be interesting to know how much of an effect kevlar thickness has as well.
.357 full metal jacket or similar has some serious penetration power. Big power rounds and not the self defence crap.
Pretty much all the tests that I've seen done on 3a kevlar armor, it's stopped 357 mag and 357 sig.
As thin as that plate was, I am really, really wondering if somebody at the factory put the wrong label on a lvl 2 plate.
@@WarriorSoul357 I have to agree man. It looked thinner than my blanket I sleep with
@@Resident-cb3yz I like the self defense stuff because it expand so much, in general. I mean, if you shoot someone who is wearing one, at least you knock the air out of them and aim in worst case scenario. You can aim for other parts of the intruder. I think that because making a "pencil hole" as he called it, people get holes in them like that and continue what ever they were doing like nothing happened. Makes sense?
@@KapteinFruit 🤣 That's a pretty good way of putting it! Yeah, let's go with that.
That's a "security blanket" rated plate. 🤣🤣
I've always been a huge proponent of quick, accurate, follow up shots. But... like you're saying, there's a difference tween using a scalpel and a hammer. When it comes to beating somebody with a soft plate... I'd rather have the hammer. Soft plate does nothing to mitigate impact trauma.
So something that hits really hard, and can crack/break bones when it doesn't penetrate, would be more of an asset in that particular fight.
357 sig underwood 68 grain XD 2300 fps from my g22 with alpha wolf 5 inch threaded barrel now that’s the loudest pistol I have ever heard even louder than my 44 mag
Great video! Maybe try different brands of soft armor and a hard 3a plate
At 9:44 when the 5-7 goes thru the body armor and hits the gel, you can see the flash from the wound channel expanding and compressing the air inside the cavity......"that's pretty neat"🌳
I would have loved to see that 10mm using some defense hollow point ammo. Excellent work!
NOPE --- 180 grains at between 1200 to 1300 fps will be stopped by 3A but the concussion may still do enough damage to get the job done.
@@HutzjohnThe hydrostatic shock that would pass through the soft armor could easily stop your heart, or break your ribs and sternum causing internal bleeding.
That would feel like a 20lb sledge flying into your chest at full force from Brian Shaw😅
That 22tcm was the low power version. The original made to fire from their 1911, were a bit longer and held more powder. My God what a muzzle blast they made!
You need to do this same test on safe life level 3A+ armor
This video teaches one to make sure you know that your body armor can stop handgun calibers before purchase. Great test!
Civil defense rounds are no joke and it always amused me when people are like "GiMmIcK RoUnDs". Like, my guy, they literally defeat armor that was intended to stop them and still explode in the target. If the rounds were engineered a bit better it's all I would carry.
I read this all the time about they are gimmicks. They definitely aren’t.
agree. Not gimmicks. The evidence is abundant that these Civil Defense rounds are a superb solution.
Very good ammo. But also very dangerous and very lazily designed.
Straight to the point, I love your channel
The 10mm is the sidearm of choice for many here in Alaska. I've see it drop a giant charging male Grizzly dead in it's tracks with no problem. They have a lot of knock down power.
The Hornady 325 grain FTX says right on the box "not for use in revolvers". This is because the cylinder gap blast can cause incomplete ignition and cause squibs.
Amazing video! Thanks for showcasing some of the more 'obscure' products. Wilson Combats Lehigh Defense Extreme Defense is very similar (if not the same) to the solid core you shot; glad it performed well.
Wait quick question, 22TCM in a Glock 17? stock barrel? Won't engage the rifling right? I'm confused..
Oh wait I see the barrel muzzle is small.
That's a 22TCM9r and a conversion barrel, and the 9r variety is a bit shorter than standard 22TCM.
Might as well be wearing a t-shirt for protection.
My old snub nosed 38 special was the loudest handgun I've ever heard fired
You do the best Balistics gel videos Imo. Practical applications is what we all like to see tested when it comes to firearms. And the 10mm being so popular this is a great video for people who use XtremeP rounds to understand that this ISNT self defense ammo, it is indeed Dangerous game protection ammo.
Underwood just never lets you down. I know that 10mm Xtreme Penetrators will defeat bulletproof glass.
Thank you! I've been waiting for someone to test body armor on ballistics gel forever! When I first saw the video I was really hoping you'd do 10mm and not one of those weak ".40s&w in disguise" loadings but a proper full house 10mm and you picked the perfect one. Do you remember which bullet weight the extreme penetrator was? They have a couple variants with different speeds so maybe that is why some videos it doesn't defeat it but no one ever says which bullet weight they used.
I would say that the 40s&w round displayed in this video worked very well on the Kevlar. 40s&w is definitely weaker than 10mm, but still has its effectiveness. - Jason/Freedom Fighter Until Death/Vermont, FRA (‘FRA’, meaning “The Failed Republic Of America”)
I carry that Liberty Civil Defense for my tactical load, 9mm and 10mm. I KNEW that round would penetrate without a problem ... EXCELLENT PERFORMANCE AND WORTH EVERY PENNY FOR TACTICAL AMMO!
I’d be curious to see the results of a few more calibers for each round. Do other extreme penetrators work, for example? Also if there are any .45 acp rounds that can make it through? I know .45 tends to be rather slow and fat which isn’t great for that sort of thing but I’m still curious if there’s a round that can manage it.
Underwood makes .45acp XPenetrators but theyre 200grain going 1,000 FPS so I wouldnt expect it to penetrate even close to how the 10mm does.
Try 460 Rowland from a Glock or 1911. Guessing it would do the trick.
What is 3a designed to stop? Small rocks? Flying pencil?
I remember looking at ballistic tests for 3A way back in the 90s as a student in high school shortly after Columbine. I came to the conclusion that it was slightly more effective than a leather jacket in most likely scenarios.
Really…not better than a leather jacket??? 😂 NIJ llla rated to stop a 44 magnum…research harder
Most impressed with the 357 Sig, the reast I suspected to perform the way they did (especially the .45/70). Even tho it was a hollow point, it dumped a LOT of energy and maintained its mass pretty well. The velocity was incredible (obviously with such a light round).
Great video. I’d love to see a comparison with the same ammo against a gel block with a couple of layers of denim and t shirt.
Surprised to see the 22TCM being used. I own a RI 1911 with a 9mm barrel, recoil spring and extractor and a 22TCM barrel, recoil spring and extractor. The msg’s hold a lot of ammo. You are right about the sound it makes and the fire ball coming out of the muzzle. Not once did I hear you say I am going to run rather than shoot. Being 74 years old and I know a old fart with 20+years in the Marine Corps we never ran with are weapons unless needed but we shot them a lot. Running rather than shooting must be the dumbing down of shooting to avoid hurting the anti gunners or just a word a shooter used to sound cool and gathered legs. Hahahahaha! Any way good video. 😊
Even the smallest one goes through the vest, but regular 9mm won't. And the bigger boys were hollow points and what not, but it was really interesting comparison.
Wish more ppl had or knew about the FK Brno 7.5 i would love to see what that can do in this test
Thanks for that video I've been wanting to see that exact comparison and I'll be watching more of your videos
Fascinating results. Unexpected in some cases. I've taken to using Liberty Civil Defense myself lately in .38 Special, 9mm and .357 Magnum. Though I consider them special purpose for particular handguns. .38s for lightweight aluminum frame snubs, 9mm for a Bond Stinger, and the .357 for snubs as well for the initial cylinder load. But I keep conventional types of ammunition for the revolver reloads. It's velocity and bullet hardness that defeats armor, so as long as you've got either one or both it's probably going to do it.
where did u get the barrel for the tcm22, mine came from armscor and would not fit nor would they refund or replace ,so beware
4:23 you should have someone make that into a ring & put a Saccone diamond on it 😂
Good stuff as always. What about 9mm Hornady Critical Duty or Defense? Duty was designed for barrier penetration, but will it defeat body armor as well?
I have a .22tcm9r barrel conversion for my g19, but can't find the ammo here in Commiefornia. Just waiting for the unconstitutional "background check" to end so I can just have it shipped right to my door.
I also have a .357Sig, LOVE it. At least I can find ammo for that one.
where did you get 5.7x28mm green tip is it steel core or aluminum core?
Nice vid as usual. You should try 7.62 x 25 Tokarev they are supposed to penetrate body armor also.
357sig is awesome in low light. I'd like to see the TCM in the dark as well... idea?
Excellent job! Thank you!
So...what kind of protection does the 3A body armor give?
5.7... I handload m193 projectiles in the 5.7. they penetrate level 3A 4 out'a 5 times. Sans any signs yet of pressure, I could bump them slightly. U do run out of case powder space quick.
Woulda liked to see Buffalo bore Outdoorsman hard cast 9mm or G9 woodsman solid copper.
Great video I’d like to see if you can do similar with different thickness of steel 1/4” vs 3/8” vs 9mm